Do not buy Crown Crates!!!

anitajoneb17_ESO

aldriq wrote: »

Based on that, the priorities for 2017 are clear to me: Crate/Store Content > Free World Updates > DLCs.

Well, you're wrong. Kai mentioned already that Q2/2017, Q3/2017 and Q4/2017 updates would involve new content (zones, stories, quests, dungeons, delves, etc...)

Elsonso

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

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aldriq wrote: »

Based on that, the priorities for 2017 are clear to me: Crate/Store Content > Free World Updates > DLCs.

Well, you're wrong. Kai mentioned already that Q2/2017, Q3/2017 and Q4/2017 updates would involve new content (zones, stories, quests, dungeons, delves, etc...)

Yup Here

"Update 13 / Housing will have no chargeable content like Update 12 / One Tamriel. However, the next three updates in 2017 (Q2, Q3 and Q4) bring new areas, dungeons, quests, items and so on."

Slylok

aldriq wrote: »

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Slylok wrote: »

Lets not forget that the last Paid DLC ZOS released was Shadows of the Hist I think (?) and how long ago was that??? Then they release One Tamriel and next up is Housing for free in 2+ months. The next Paid DLC probably isnt going to be for another 3 months at least AFTER the Housing update.

It is going to be over a half year in between DLC cash flow for ZOS. These crates will keep large free updates possible along with other large DLCs ( creating all of Vvardenfel aint cheap ). A necessary evil so we all should do our best to live with them. Nothing in them is required for gameplay. Gotta separate our Needs from our Wants.

Indeed, Update 13 will be the second free update in a row, the third one with no new geographic content added. They have tried, done their cost analysis and realised that paid DLCs offer the poorest return of investment. Free global content changes like one Tamriel and furniture crafting are not quick to make but rejuvenating old content is probably a more efficient use of their resources. Finally the crown store (and crates) give them the biggest bang for their buck – they need comparatively few resources to part players with the most cash.

Based on that, the priorities for 2017 are clear to me: Crate/Store Content > Free World Updates > DLCs.

That isn't really true. We know there are several more large DLC areas coming. One Tamriel was needed because of new direction they wanted to take the game and housing is something many people wanted from the start.

The team that creates the store content isn't taking away from anything else being built.

driosketch

Slylok wrote: »

Lets not forget that the last Paid DLC ZOS released was Shadows of the Hist I think (?) and how long ago was that??? Then they release One Tamriel and next up is Housing for free in 2+ months. The next Paid DLC probably isnt going to be for another 3 months at least AFTER the Housing update.

It is going to be over a half year in between DLC cash flow for ZOS. These crates will keep large free updates possible along with other large DLCs ( creating all of Vvardenfel aint cheap ). A necessary evil so we all should do our best to live with them. Nothing in them is required for gameplay. Gotta separate our Needs from our Wants.

The Hist was from August. If new DLC doesn't come until May, that'll be nine months without a content update, nearly a year without a new zone. We haven't had a drought that long since they paused development to focus on console release, and during that time they dropped the mandatory sub.

There are three ways players financially support this games development:

*Buying the base game, upgrades, and DLC *Optional subscription *Crown store, and buying crown packs

The first one is a one-time buy for most players. So it relies mostly on attracting new players. Though the game is often on sale, and DLC is released in bundles, over time old content brings in less money per player.

Second one cuts into the DLC selling a little bit, but is by far the most steady source of income. Perks like craft bags is what draws players to sub. You get crowns, but not enough for crates to be a reason to sub. Crates, however, did chase a small minority of players off subbing.

Third, the crown store, which is by far cosmetic with a few time saving conveniences. Not every player is into cosmetics though, and to get the players who are to spend more money on crowns they try a few psychological tricks. Adding insane grinds, like tearing glass motif pages into scraps with an expensive ingame glue for an RNG chance. To funnel buying patterns into a more predictable time frame, they do limited sales and remove items from the store.

But players get wise to these tricks, so they stock up on crown packs during sales, cutting revenue in half from some of the biggest buyers. Consumers, after all, will seek the best deal just as companies will try to make the most profit off them. This is how we came to crates.

So now a smaller chunk of the crown store buyers are supporting the game. Many of those who buy crowns don't see the value in buying crates, but those who do are spending more. Starting next month, we will see what the crown store has left for the rest. If the answer is not much, then the game will be trying to support itself on a minorty, whales. Each lost of one of those players has greater impact, and isn't really sustainable long term I would think. But we will see.

greylox

I get why they've done it, it's easy money and you don't have to buy if you don't want.

I will buy a few here and there. Bought one 15 crate deal so far and got various costumes and one of the things I wanted, the dwarven wizard hat with goggles. At least you can trade in stuff you don't want.

A mate bought 6 15 crate deals and on his 5th got an atronach horse.

aldriq

Well, call me cynical if you want but to me Kai –once again– breaking ranks with the main PR/marketing operation in the German forum to reassure players that an existing trend is not indicative of the 'real' roadmap does little to change my perception of the new priorities. Besides, of the new things stated; areas, dungeons, quests, items – the last three can easily be added to existing areas, in a free update.

I didn't say there would be no new content. I'm not even arguing for or against paid DLCs per se, if more free content updates work better that's fine. I think they are still working it out to find a balance. But if they go down that route, how are they going to monetise players who used to buy only DLCs and the odd costume? (Not with the current crate implementation, that's for sure). Maybe they won't need to, maybe 5% of the player base subscribing and another 5% spending generously in crates is enough to support the game.

phbell

I have no issues with the crate idea. To me it is no different than buying a lottery scratcher ticket (with about the same odds from what I am reading here). ESO is not a charity. It is a business with shareholders and employees that pay rent and feed families. That requires revenue.

My only wish would be that ESO would put 1/2 the programming effort into correcting exploits and cheating that they place in creating these revenue generating schemes. That might produce longer term customer satisfaction.

DrkHunter86

lordrichter wrote: »

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anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

aldriq wrote: »

Based on that, the priorities for 2017 are clear to me: Crate/Store Content > Free World Updates > DLCs.

Well, you're wrong. Kai mentioned already that Q2/2017, Q3/2017 and Q4/2017 updates would involve new content (zones, stories, quests, dungeons, delves, etc...)

Yup Here

"Update 13 / Housing will have no chargeable content like Update 12 / One Tamriel. However, the next three updates in 2017 (Q2, Q3 and Q4) bring new areas, dungeons, quests, items and so on."

They've actually said there will be exclusive things like furniture only available via the crown store. Thats said you can obviously craft your own. And at least one house that is only available via crown store purchase.

JD2013

DrkHunter86 wrote: »

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lordrichter wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

aldriq wrote: »

Based on that, the priorities for 2017 are clear to me: Crate/Store Content > Free World Updates > DLCs.

Well, you're wrong. Kai mentioned already that Q2/2017, Q3/2017 and Q4/2017 updates would involve new content (zones, stories, quests, dungeons, delves, etc...)

Yup Here

"Update 13 / Housing will have no chargeable content like Update 12 / One Tamriel. However, the next three updates in 2017 (Q2, Q3 and Q4) bring new areas, dungeons, quests, items and so on."

They've actually said there will be exclusive things like furniture only available via the crown store. Thats said you can obviously craft your own. And at least one house that is only available via crown store purchase.

How is this relevant to Kai's quote?

And there will be a couple of Crown Store houses for sure. And possibly over 30 that you can buy with in-game gold.

Rouven

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DrkHunter86 wrote: »

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lordrichter wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

aldriq wrote: »

Based on that, the priorities for 2017 are clear to me: Crate/Store Content > Free World Updates > DLCs.

Well, you're wrong. Kai mentioned already that Q2/2017, Q3/2017 and Q4/2017 updates would involve new content (zones, stories, quests, dungeons, delves, etc...)

Yup Here

"Update 13 / Housing will have no chargeable content like Update 12 / One Tamriel. However, the next three updates in 2017 (Q2, Q3 and Q4) bring new areas, dungeons, quests, items and so on."

They've actually said there will be exclusive things like furniture only available via the crown store. Thats said you can obviously craft your own. And at least one house that is only available via crown store purchase.

It's referring to DLC (like Dark Brotherhood, Orsinium etc), not individual items.

DrkHunter86

Those who are dumping on people mad about crown crates should realize most of us aren't angry that there In game. We are mad because of them having abysmal drop rates for anything good,poor/ broken gem conversion and in my case, content you get not showing up. I spent 7500 crowns on crates. Only got 116 gems from conversion and the only two decent items I got (black mane lion mount,club loon pet) where not added too my collection. After submitting a ticket in game and 3 emails they've yet too even acknowledge my issue let alone help fix it. Just check my email again. They finally got back too me with a half answer. They acknowledged my not getting the club lol pet but say I didn't get the lil mount lol. I know what I got and I've never been a liar,yet they seem too think I am. They're sending my club lol pet issue up the ladder so too speak. But I'm getting screwed on my lion mount lol. Thanks yet again zos for such great support. Guess we will see in another 3 emails and a week later if they fix the issue...smh in disgust.

nimander99

Xabien wrote: »

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Vigarr wrote: »

penek wrote: »

a close call ? http://www.pcgamesn.com/china-loot-box-regulations (china government gonna force all companies to provide chances for items in "loot boxes"

The regulation comes from China's Ministry of Culture, via NeoGAF, and states that "online game publishers shall promptly publicly announce information about the name, property, content, quantity, and draw/forge probability of all virtual items and services.

"The information on draw probability shall be true and effective."

China can't control what an American based company does.

Despite what a certain ex-reality show host might have us believe, countries can absolutely legislate against company behaviour within their own borders.

Yes its called Crony Capitalism, and it has fooled two generations into thinking this is the Free Market...

Recremen

phbell wrote: »

I have no issues with the crate idea. To me it is no different than buying a lottery scratcher ticket (with about the same odds from what I am reading here). ESO is not a charity. It is a business with shareholders and employees that pay rent and feed families. That requires revenue.

My only wish would be that ESO would put 1/2 the programming effort into correcting exploits and cheating that they place in creating these revenue generating schemes. That might produce longer term customer satisfaction.

@phbell

All you win with a scratch ticket is more money. These, on the other hand, are making you gamble for cosmetics, and the only way to get a chance at them is through the gambling. I have yet to see anyone here arguing that these things should be free, we just want them available for direct purchase, same as they always have been when the Crown Store was released. They're literally locking up their monetizable content to be used as an incentive to gamble.

Speaking of, since the gambling boxes are going to be their only monetizable new content for 6 months in a row, you can expect much more attention to be paid to them than to other things in the game. We'll still get solid DLC when new zones and stuff roll in, but these gambling boxes are the new money and are going to get the focus.

snakester320

Recremen wrote: »

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phbell wrote: »

I have no issues with the crate idea. To me it is no different than buying a lottery scratcher ticket (with about the same odds from what I am reading here). ESO is not a charity. It is a business with shareholders and employees that pay rent and feed families. That requires revenue.

My only wish would be that ESO would put 1/2 the programming effort into correcting exploits and cheating that they place in creating these revenue generating schemes. That might produce longer term customer satisfaction.

@phbell

All you win with a scratch ticket is more money. These, on the other hand, are making you gamble for cosmetics, and the only way to get a chance at them is through the gambling. I have yet to see anyone here arguing that these things should be free, we just want them available for direct purchase, same as they always have been when the Crown Store was released. They're literally locking up their monetizable content to be used as an incentive to gamble.

Speaking of, since the gambling boxes are going to be their only monetizable new content for 6 months in a row, you can expect much more attention to be paid to them than to other things in the game. We'll still get solid DLC when new zones and stuff roll in, but these gambling boxes are the new money and are going to get the focus.

Bah on solid dlc your dreaming .. your lucky if you will get shadows of the hist 2 dungeons and some gear [Snip] that the dogs will make you pay for on top of the [Snip] gambling boxes.. and if by some chance they give you solid dlc once or twice it will get less and less as the fat whales get thin from wasting 1000s and 1000s on the scam boxes!

[Edit to remove profanity]

runagate

If only there was purchasable new content!

My initial draw to this game was the monthly updates. That then changed to quarterly updates - but many of those updates aren't playable content. Wrothgar should be the template.

maboleth

Fired the game for the first time after a while. Sad to see that Crates have same-sized even bigger icon than Crown Store in the menu bar. Does that mean they are equally or even more important? Bah...

Still, people buy them and that's what matters to ZOS. I've read someone bought 250+ crates. That means the person threw ~85k of crowns. What a waste of money.

JWKe

I know there are some folks on here that argue in favour of the clown crates arguing that if someone were to spent a boatlaod of cash on a video game cosmetic RnG pack then that said individual has a "gambling problem". Now assuming that the clown crates are a form of gambling (which in my opinion is as defined by Merriam - Webster dictionary

"1 a : to play a game for money or property
b : to bet on an uncertain outcome

2 : to stake something on a contingency : take a chance" )

ESO according to it's ESRB Ratings is rated "MATURE - Content is generally suitable for ages 17 and up. May contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language."

Now in regards to gambling we should look to the state of Nevada where their state laws mandate that "The Nevada Revised Statutes say a person under the age of 21 years shall not “play, be allowed to play, place wagers at, or collect winnings from, whether personally or through an agent, any gambling game, slot machine, race book, sports pool or pari-mutuel operator; loiter, or be permitted to loiter, in or about any room or premises wherein any licensed game, race book, sports pool or pari-mutuel wagering is operated or conducted or be employed as a gaming employee except in a counting room.”

Even, here in CA the lowest age I've seen where Casinos allow gambling is 18+. : Pechanga - 21 and up, San Manuel Indian Bingo & Casino - 21 and up, Barona Resort & Casino - 18 and up, etc.

Being that this game is sold with an ESRB rating of "MATURE - Content is generally suitable for ages 17 and up" which is lower than the legal age of gambling in most reputable Casinos nation wide. I would then argue that clown crates:

1. Betting odds be disclosed and at the same time barring minors from the purchase of said clown crates.
2. Be removed entirely.

And so referring to the corporate social responsibility pyramid chart attached below. We see with these clown crates it fulfills the basis upon which all the other responsibilities rests upon which is Zo$'s economic responsibility. Legal responsibilities I would assume they have satisfied them also. But the question ultimately lies... are these clown crates ethical? Do these crates do what is right for the youth who play this game? Are these crates just and fair? Do they avoid harm?

Gargath

Paying milion gold for atronach mount, please make it happen .

Taos

I'm 100% in favor of crown crates as long as six things happen.

1. Crown crates don't completely replace putting items on crown store in a major way.

2. Crown crates come with a addiction label.

3. Profits are used to better the game.

4. Crown crate items remain cosmetic and or less powerful then in game crafted versions. (Those pots and food from crates are not as good as best crafted )

5. Item epicness, this is personal opinion level and can vary. But the gist is, crown crates can have a couple amaxing looking items as long as the crown store has more amazing looking items.

6. Label that crates are gambling with all that intails.

If you hate ZOS version of crates then never and I mean never play swtor(swtor has become knights of the rng crate) .

ZOS crates come with gems for duplicates and getting gems for selling unwanted. The gem returns might be on the low ball side but it dosnt change the fact that after enough money you would get what you really wanted. I don't encourage wasting your money!

ESO is a B2P game. There are many people playing for free and that initial purchase doesn't pay the bills forever. You want regular new content, stable servers (ALL gaming companies are subject to the whims of ddos attacks), regular patches, new stuff in crown store then buttercup you need to understand that time isn't free. ZOS staff needs paid and servers don't run on comments on how awesome the game is from people who don't sub.

And to end it all these crates are completly optional. There is no force in this universe that says you MUST buy these crates. It's you wanting to wave a swinging pixel **** with your shiny new mount or mementos that wants to buy these crates. Everything in them is cosmetic and the food / pots are less then crafted strength.

robertthebard

Recremen wrote: »

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ArrerBoy wrote: »

So don't buy it. I don't see why this is so difficult to grasp.

Not buying isn't enough. The practice of selling them should be discouraged. If you aren't helping that then you're complicit in it. I don't see why this is so difficult to grasp.

Not buying is exactly enough, if enough people follow through with it. The problem is, this system isn't unique to here. It's been in play in the ME 3 MP mode since it's inception, it's in the DA Inquisition MP, swtor uses a similar system. These off the top of my head, I believe even Aion has something similar, but it's literally been years since I logged in there. If it were a scam, it would have been curtailed long before now.

If you're not happy, don't pay for them. That advice goes out to anyone that's unhappy with it. It doesn't mean that I'm "complicit", I have bought a box to see what was in it, with the crowns from my sub, but I'm not going to blow through a bunch of money trying to win something, especially if it's something I could outright buy. The implication here is that if I think it's not worth the money, and just don't buy it, that I'm part of the problem. I'm not. After all, I'm not spending any money on them. I'm not telling the Marketing Dept. that this is a good idea by continuing to buy them. Quite the opposite. Unfortunately, my own experience with MMOs tells me that people are going to continue to buy them, no matter what others think. They've literally been doing so long before there was an Elder Scrolls Online.

Elsonso

Taos wrote: »

I'm 100% in favor of crown crates as long as six things happen.

ESO is a B2P game. There are many people playing for free and that initial purchase doesn't pay the bills forever. You want regular new content, stable servers (ALL gaming companies are subject to the whims of ddos attacks), regular patches, new stuff in crown store then buttercup you need to understand that time isn't free. ZOS staff needs paid and servers don't run on comments on how awesome the game is from people who don't sub.

And to end it all these crates are completly optional. There is no force in this universe that says you MUST buy these crates. It's you wanting to wave a swinging pixel **** with your shiny new mount or mementos that wants to buy these crates. Everything in them is cosmetic and the food / pots are less then crafted strength.

I am 100% against Crown Crates, under every condition where they remain a random event. No amount of Crown Gems, or warnings, or "this-is-better-than-that" will change this. Optional or not, cosmetic or not, they are wrong.

ZOS gets no sympathy from me on the whole "we have to eat, too" front for introducing RNG crates. None at all.

The Crown Store, and by extension, the Crown Crates, are a signal that ZOS cannot make a game that people will pay for. They have an option to subscribe to the game, with a massive storage bag as a hook, and they introduce Crown Crates. Here we are, three years later, playing a game that the company might very well feel is a financial failure.

It is all fine and dandy that people are willing to throw their money on the sword so that ZOS can eat. I have no problem with people doing that, but please do not expect that this will really matter. For every person out there who buys Crowns, or ESO Plus, so that ZOS can keep the lights on, there is an army of people who don't care. This is the core problem.

As for ZOS, and the developers, I would not worry about them. ZOS is backed by a massive amount of capital in ZeniMax Media. If they want to, ZeniMax Media will provide funding opportunities to ZOS for another game and the developers will say their farewells to ESO and move to that game. ZeniMax Media does close studios, but ZOS is not going to fold up shop because players are not buying Crowns or ESO Plus.

What would it take for me to not stand against Crown Crates?

• Removal of the Random Element for the top tier (Apex) rewards. Simply put, if you want a Storm Atronach Senche, you buy a Senche Crown Crate. You are guaranteed to get the Senche, and 3 to 4 random things from lower tiers, for a single, large, Crown price. You might also get a mount, pet, costume item not currently in the store, or one that is currently in the store, as well as a selection of consumables and other stuff. Don't have all of the top tier rewards available at the same time, spread them out over time. Each Apex crate would be a limited time only (1-2 weeks). These crates can return, see below.
• Bring those limited time only crates, mounts, and costumes back for direct purchase on a regular basis. When it returns, increase the price. Never should a limited time offering be sold for less than the introductory price.
• New items introduced in Crown Crates are eventually available in the Crown Store for direct purchase. I am not talking about the Apex stuff.
• Crate random rewards emphasize one-of-a-kind things not currently owned by the account. Gems are still used for duplicates, but rather than using Gems to purchase items found in crates, they are used to purchase crates and limited time offers instead of using Crowns.

This might remove some revenue due to people not buying lots of crates, but I am not concerned about that. If the game is doing well, financially, then the reduced revenue can be contained. If the game is not doing well, financially, then we are probably looking at Pay-To-Win before too long, anyway.

DarcyMardin

Totally opposed to crates. I have bought pets, mounts, costumes etc. from the Crown store for cash, but I will not throw money away on the off chance that I might get something I want. And I will be super ticked off if something that I was saving up for in the Crown store is removed and thereafter only *possibly* available in crates. The RNG is bad enough in this game with gambling real money on crates.

FloppyTouch

I spent 200$ on crown crates got everything in the store all pets and costume even got an atro mount and was able to get another atro mount bc I had well over 400 gems adding up everything I got the value is there and very fair.

MercyKilling

Crown crates are just another thing on a growing list of completely botched or wrong from the start design decisions. GG, Zenimax. GG.

Oompuh

*rides storm atro camel into the sunset laughing maniacally*

Livvy

Didn't you all hear? They fixed the Crown Crates today on the test server!

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

FIXES & IMPROVEMENTS, BASE GAME PATCH

Crown Store & Crown Crates
General

• Crown Crates can now be accessed while sitting in a chair.

Elsonso

Livvy wrote: »

Didn't you all hear? They fixed the Crown Crates today on the test server!

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ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

FIXES & IMPROVEMENTS, BASE GAME PATCH

Crown Store & Crown Crates
General

• Crown Crates can now be accessed while sitting in a chair.

Yeah, this is a priority fix. I am surprised it managed to make it all the way to PTS before it got fixed.

Cpt_Teemo

maboleth wrote: »

Fired the game for the first time after a while. Sad to see that Crates have same-sized even bigger icon than Crown Store in the menu bar. Does that mean they are equally or even more important? Bah...

Still, people buy them and that's what matters to ZOS. I've read someone bought 250+ crates. That means the person threw ~85k of crowns. What a waste of money.

You can thank Swtor CM packs for that as well

Soafee

Why is it so hard for people to support games they play for hours upon hours each day/week/month?

Even WoW players complain and get angry when Blizzard adds in unique things to the in-game shop. Same with every game. You guys want them to bring out new content, right? Well that takes time, and it takes money. If they don't charge a monthly fee and the majority of people play for free then how do you expect them to pay their devs? They offer alternate ways to make money.

Nothing in those boxes is game breaking if you don't get it. They are not going pay-to-win. Stop complaining and start supporting the game.

Bouldercleave

maboleth wrote: »

I've read someone bought 250+ crates. That means the person threw ~85k of crowns. What a waste of money.

Not to the person that bought them. If he had bought them with YOUR money, I can see your point.