Official Feedback Thread for Nightblades

zerosingularity · February 2016

My Nightblade Observations so far on the PTS. (Not much in the way of positive changes.)

Siphoning Attacks - No DoTs, either ground AoE (Caltrops), or regular (Flurry) can proc this. This is a huge nerf, that I feel was un-needed. Sure the sustain from using it with Caltrops was too much, but this is too far. Flurry and other single target DoTs should still proc it, yet they do not. Please meet in the middle and tweak this, otherwise the skill is ONLY useful when spamming Steel Tornado.

Power Extraction - This would be an AWESOME option to Steel Tornado for stamblades. Similar range, a little less damage and a source of Major Brutality with less casting cost and no execute. (Pretty well balanced vs Steel Tornado here.) The only problem is it is MAGIC damage. If it were poison or disease damage, then it would be buffed with the stamina CPs, but since it is not, no one would run this in-place of Steel Tornado, because the damage loss is TOO significant to out-way any benefits. Please change the damage type to poison or physical, as this would still get the CP buffs. (Might need to rename the skill to make it sound more Poisony or bleedy/physical, like ripping out the blood of your enemies which seems pretty physical to me.)

Killer's Blade - Make this poison damage for the CP buffs since it is a stamina skill. Seems like it would still be pretty lore friendly with Nightblades to give them a few poison damage skills.

That's all I have for now.

Arkraptor · February 2016

Is the change to SA really necessary? Yes, it's OP with caltrops, but to make it not work with any DOT just kill the one signature benefit of being an NB tank. Now we'll have more or less similar playstyle as DK, but with less mitigation... ):

ThePonzzz · February 2016

The siphoning attacks changes to not proc on caltrops and other DoTs is a real brutal change. This is a big move to sustain stamina resources in a long fight. I can't hide when DoTs are happening, crouching doesn't offering any stamina recovery anymore, and now I have no way to gain stamina back from a skill that has been a big time crutch for stamina nightblades.

The investment time to get caltrops is pretty up there, and keeping siphoning strikes on your bar is near pointless without DoTs giving you back anything. No one is trying to pull 972 stamina/magicka on light attacks. It's all about that 10% gaining 1944 (obviously numbers may vary).

I can understand caltrops being too much, but it's not like we have many AoE options.

Miwerton · February 2016

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

Oh, and this one goes for all classes, is the fact that since most ultis are magickal damage they of course scale of spell penetration, making it that if a NB stam used veil of blades versus a NB magicka both with the same amount of ressources and damage and cp, the NB magicka would hit harder due it scaling of spell pen, rather then what is highest (granted would be a prob if the sharpened mace bug persisted).

I thought they changed it last year so all class ultimates scale with highest damage and crit type?

Yes damage and crit, but it all mostly still scales of spell penetration.

bowmanz607 · February 2016

Farorin wrote: »

My initial thought on the cloak change was that it wasn't so bad, but then considering my main is a stamblade, I thought about it and I realised that what is literally my only defensive ability has been gimped.

I am not too happy about it considering there are no other real defensive abilities available for a NB, and no other abilities were adjusted in a way to make up for the cloak adjustment.

I would be okay with it, if there was some other viable ability that would help me not insta-die when touched by a light breeze.

dodgeroll, vigor, and rally are all tools to mitigate damage. lets not forget you still get an 8%damage reduction from cloak and armor and spell resistance at the same time.

bowmanz607 · February 2016

olsborg wrote: »

We got no class skills to get major brutality or sorcery? The other classes got it.

ya we do. sap and pwer extraction

bowmanz607 · February 2016

forzajuve212 wrote: »

Not too excited to face a sorc as a stam blade with stacking physical resist CP, shields, mines, curse, and magelight while nerfing cloak. I second the idea that there has to be some balance change to that because what I can see happening is stam NB basically being rendered near useless against many different magicka builds, in particular magicka sorc.

ok so they will be specced to fight stam users more then mag users. stronger on one front but weaker on the other. I want to run a build with SB and points into the shield star and can counter the crap out of sorcs. Also, the nerf to cloak effects DOT usage. A sorc really is not dropping dots on a plyer so the cloak chnage will see a minmal effect in this scenario.

Celas_Dranacea · February 2016

As a stamblade, I'm not going to complain about dark cloak. Just gonna man up.

Practically, I think I'm going to need to increase my magicka pool somewhat to be able to cloak more, which will in turn reduce my Dps slightly from having a lower stamina pool.

Just tell me this is necessary for balance and ok, I trust you ZOS.

Like the catalyst change, throwing us a little bone there, lol.

Generally about balance - im a bit worried about how champion system changes will pan out - stam vs magicka - fine to buff magicka a bit but please take a close look to make sure this is not too much of a swing in the other direction.

bowmanz607 · February 2016

Helluin wrote: »

Lifecode666 wrote: »

As mentioned by others.
Killers blade should deal physical damage.
Staminamorph.

This for sure but the issue is also with:
- Power Extraction (magic damage - stamina morph)
- Assassin's Will (magic damage)
- Ultimates (magic damage)
- Skills and Ultimates of Fighters Guild (physical + magic damage)

The changement to CP should address this as well otherwise changing the kind of damage skills and Ultimates would be more complicated, creating then an issue for magicka builds.

although on some level i would like to see many abilities and ult scale on physical damage, we need to see how this plays out with the physical damage resistance coming in. Now, not every player will be stacking into reduced magic damage because they will have to spread them around. So there could be many instances where someone is stacked in physical damage reduction rendering an execute like executioner weak, but an execute like killers blade will hit harder becuase they have less resistance in mag damage. and you know that many peopole will be jumping on physical resistance for at least a month while people continue to run largely stamina builds until the new meta is figured out.

overall, i would like to see the change to physical damage especially becuase mag users have in inherent advantage in terms of ultimate damage. This was fine before because everyone was stacking against magic so it made sense that a mad user was able to get more from there ultimates at least. No, that is no longer an issue. Advantage of cp tree goes to mag users this round simply for the fact that they already stack points into the proper stars for ultimate power.

bowmanz607 · February 2016

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

cavakthestampede wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Reduced the bonus movement speed from the Major Expedition buff category to 30% from 40%.

what a horrible decision ...
please dont do this. especially as a passive we should have "Increased" sneak speeds as a passive, a set armor for thieves guild increasing sneak speeds, or even a potion granting 90% increased speed.

you guys allready deleted and removed the fast sneak speeds we had, you did it without explanation of what was wrong with it.
and you STILL have no answer as to how its cheating or even why you think fast sneak speeds is bad.
many many people were very angry about it, and to be honest it was horrible that it could even be imagined let alone done.
but, here now again we see that you have removed even More of our sneak speeds and even just "movement speed" ingeneral is now being made slower.
horrible, just horrible.
speechless to think that you actually "Favor" slowing us down more and more and more, and more ...

They are doing this to make sure that folks with magicka and great magicka regen cant pace stamina sprinters. Magicka regens while the buff is active, stamina does not regen while sprinting. Sprinting was increased to 40% from 30%. This change makes great sense.

How many stamina user do you actually see sprinting out of a fight ,

fengrush does it all the time

bowmanz607 · February 2016

Junkogen wrote: »

Is there anything to compensate NBs for the buff to mage light? Has cloak and stealth been rendered obsolete?

I just think they're going a little overboard by hitting our only defense so hard. It's not like we have an uncrittable damage shield we can spam over and over while delivering nuclear damage.

it will simply require some more tactics. Lets say you get hit with mag light. fight for a couple seconds, then cc the player and get away while they are cc. Now cloak will require a little more strategy and situational awarness to pull off. Also, not every single last person will run it. Especially when the FOTM players finally get off my class and there are less nb running around.

also, sorc also recieved an indirect nerf with the shield star.

GreenSoup2HoT · February 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

cavakthestampede wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Reduced the bonus movement speed from the Major Expedition buff category to 30% from 40%.

what a horrible decision ...
please dont do this. especially as a passive we should have "Increased" sneak speeds as a passive, a set armor for thieves guild increasing sneak speeds, or even a potion granting 90% increased speed.

you guys allready deleted and removed the fast sneak speeds we had, you did it without explanation of what was wrong with it.
and you STILL have no answer as to how its cheating or even why you think fast sneak speeds is bad.
many many people were very angry about it, and to be honest it was horrible that it could even be imagined let alone done.
but, here now again we see that you have removed even More of our sneak speeds and even just "movement speed" ingeneral is now being made slower.
horrible, just horrible.
speechless to think that you actually "Favor" slowing us down more and more and more, and more ...

They are doing this to make sure that folks with magicka and great magicka regen cant pace stamina sprinters. Magicka regens while the buff is active, stamina does not regen while sprinting. Sprinting was increased to 40% from 30%. This change makes great sense.

How many stamina user do you actually see sprinting out of a fight ,

fengrush does it all the time

he uses bolt escape in conjunction with sprinting. this is not the same. its much easier to get away from a fight with bolt escape then cloak against smart player's.

bowmanz607 · February 2016

TheBull wrote: »

I literally choked while eating breakfast and reading this -

Magelight-
This ability and its morphs are no longer toggle abilities; instead, they will grant their Critical Strike rating benefits as long as they are slotted (similar to Expert Hunter).

Magelight can now be activated to summon a mote of magelight which exposes hidden or invisible enemies in an 8 meter radius for 5 seconds, and prevents revealed enemies from returning to stealth for 5 seconds.

This ability and the Radiant Magelight morph no longer decrease your maximum Magicka, due to the toggle changes noted above.

The Radiant Magelight morph will continue to prevent you from being stunned by stealth attacks, and will reduce damage from stealth attacks while slotted as a morph effect. Activating it also increases the radius of the activated reveal to 12 meters, and reduces the cost.

The Inner Light morph will continue to increase your maximum Magicka while slotted.

the only issue i have is with the 12 meters increase to the morph. that is too much. that ability does to much. cant be stunned from stealth, reduce damage from stealth, crit chance, can no longer tell when someone has this buff active, and 12 meter range. that is too much. reduce the range to 8 meters and im cool with it. this ability works just like steel tornado does besides the remaining revealed part.

bowmanz607 · February 2016

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Miwerton wrote: »

Oh, and this one goes for all classes, is the fact that since most ultis are magickal damage they of course scale of spell penetration, making it that if a NB stam used veil of blades versus a NB magicka both with the same amount of ressources and damage and cp, the NB magicka would hit harder due it scaling of spell pen, rather then what is highest (granted would be a prob if the sharpened mace bug persisted).

I thought they changed it last year so all class ultimates scale with highest damage and crit type?

they do. However, all ultimates except ;eap are magic damage. So, although they will scale off highest resource pool and damage etc, they still deliver magic damage over physical damage. So an mag user puts points into increased magic damage which increases the ult damage becuase it is magic resulting in a mag user hitting harder with the ult. On the other hand, a stam user puts their points into physical damage so their ults get no extra boost from the cp tree. If a stam user wants their ult to hit harder they have to spread their points into mag damage which makes their normal attacks hit less hard. Ultimately, the champ tree is now slanted back toward mag users because so many abilities and ults use mag damage over physical.

KenaPKK · February 2016

I have my thoughts on these changes, and most look...misguided but interesting? Will play on PTS to test and leave more feedback at a later date.

remilafo wrote: »

Omg yes.. thank you for these patch notes.. i really do love all the changes..

Some feedback:
- Excellent PvE update and i think everyone here is happy. Well except maybe templars but BoL needs a nerf it's true.
- Stamina Builds didn't get much of anything except a indirect nerf via the revised CP system but the new stam sets are amazing.
- Alot of the PvPers are really unhappy but we all know pvp players are are the loudest. Hopefully those cyrodil improvements will be awesome.

Overall good patch notes. Keep up good work..

PvP players are loud because PvP is routinely neglected and balanced poorly. It's a horrible place right now with all the lag and imbalance.

CtrlAltDlt · February 2016

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Killers blade should deal Physical damage. It's a stamina morph and will never benefit from where a stamina dps must put their champion points (Mighty).

+1000. Seriously, it's a weak execute for a stam build

Tomato · February 2016

I wonder how running Magelight and Camo Hunter on same bar with Killers Blade or Steel tornado, Ambush, and Surprise Attack will be.

Helluin · February 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Helluin wrote: »

Lifecode666 wrote: »

As mentioned by others.
Killers blade should deal physical damage.
Staminamorph.

This for sure but the issue is also with:
- Power Extraction (magic damage - stamina morph)
- Assassin's Will (magic damage)
- Ultimates (magic damage)
- Skills and Ultimates of Fighters Guild (physical + magic damage)

The changement to CP should address this as well otherwise changing the kind of damage skills and Ultimates would be more complicated, creating then an issue for magicka builds.

although on some level i would like to see many abilities and ult scale on physical damage, we need to see how this plays out with the physical damage resistance coming in. Now, not every player will be stacking into reduced magic damage because they will have to spread them around. So there could be many instances where someone is stacked in physical damage reduction rendering an execute like executioner weak, but an execute like killers blade will hit harder becuase they have less resistance in mag damage. and you know that many peopole will be jumping on physical resistance for at least a month while people continue to run largely stamina builds until the new meta is figured out.

overall, i would like to see the change to physical damage especially becuase mag users have in inherent advantage in terms of ultimate damage. This was fine before because everyone was stacking against magic so it made sense that a mad user was able to get more from there ultimates at least. No, that is no longer an issue. Advantage of cp tree goes to mag users this round simply for the fact that they already stack points into the proper stars for ultimate power.

I prefer several types of damage but since 1.6 many changements were made to make game easier to understand dividing dmg, skills, etc. into stamina or magicka (damage, crit, penetration, etc.). I still prefer how these skills were before 1.6, giving the chance to have unconventional and hybrid builds.

I explain better what I wrote in the previous post.

I don't like all turned into physical (poison or disease), but since the design went and is going in this way, then all stamina and magicka skills and Ultimates should have the same guideline.
Infact the issue I was speaking about in my previous post (like @Xantaria in this topic) is because of champion system, specifically about Mighty and Elemental Expert.

As you can see, checking all skills and Ultimates, magicka builds gain a buff with Elemental Expert, while stamina builds with Mighty.
In these changement some stuff was left behind - forgotten.
And this is the case of Killer's Blade and Power Extraction, two stamina morphs dealing magic damage.
Same can apply to stamina DK and flame damage.

On top of it, the skills and Ultimates of Fighters Guild (physical + magic damage) consume stamina so they have the same discrepancy.
There is also the activation skill of Grim Focus (Assasin's Will) that can be used by both stamina and magicka NB.

Last but not least there are the offensive Ultimates:

- flame damage >> 2 from DK (both morphs) + 1 from Mages Guild (1 morph)
- cold >> 1 from Mages Guild (1 morph)
- shock >> 2 from Sorc (both 2 morphs)
- magic >> 2 from Templar (both morphs) + 3 from NB (4 morphs) + 1 Soul Magic (both morphs) + 1 Vampire (both morphs) + 1 Fighters Guild (both morphs)
- physical >> 1 from DK (both morphs)

About Ultimates it's more tricky the situation (even if sooner or later it should become more balanced), but at least the stamina morphs we have as NB should deal Physical, Poison or Disease damage.

Xeniph · February 2016

TheBull wrote: »

I literally choked while eating breakfast and reading this -

Magelight-
This ability and its morphs are no longer toggle abilities; instead, they will grant their Critical Strike rating benefits as long as they are slotted (similar to Expert Hunter).

Magelight can now be activated to summon a mote of magelight which exposes hidden or invisible enemies in an 8 meter radius for 5 seconds, and prevents revealed enemies from returning to stealth for 5 seconds.

This ability and the Radiant Magelight morph no longer decrease your maximum Magicka, due to the toggle changes noted above.

The Radiant Magelight morph will continue to prevent you from being stunned by stealth attacks, and will reduce damage from stealth attacks while slotted as a morph effect. Activating it also increases the radius of the activated reveal to 12 meters, and reduces the cost.

The Inner Light morph will continue to increase your maximum Magicka while slotted.

That's bad enough, but the real kicker? Radiant Magelight has NO visual quie for the "While slotted" buff portion.

So the only way to tell what morph they have slotted, or even if they have magelight slotted (Ya right, who wouldn't) is IF they cast the detect portion. Usually after you engage.

So far it looks like we will all be going mageblade again, unless you prefer to play without cloak/stealth at all.

WolfingHour · February 2016

The change to SA is just so disappointing for tanks.

Caltrops and SA is not OP in PvE or the proc chance on DOT ticks for that matter. The days of stamina at 100% are gone since no stamina while block casting was implemented.

I use caltrops, siphoning, skoria and an axe. With this setup I could for instance tank the first boss of vICP and still use silver leash on some of the mobs and this is with the ocasional shard or pot. Meanwhile both taunts are in use as well as heroic slash/swallow soul to capitalize on ulti gains.

Without proc'ing SA I suspect that fight is going to much less involved - block, taunt two targets, do a couple of light attacks, perhaps drop soul shred if DDS are overwhelmed. Horn? Forget it, need it for soul shred or a veil if things go south. Silver leash? Cost too prohibitive. Deal with that mob yourself. I might need vigor in a pinch. Caltrops? Why bother.

potirondb16_ESO · February 2016

Helluin wrote: »

Lifecode666 wrote: »

As mentioned by others.
Killers blade should deal physical damage.
Staminamorph.

I don't understand, why does Funnel Health not classify as a heal?

Not for stamina nightblade

@JDar
___

I liked that suggestion @zerosingularity about making killerblade (the stamina morph) poison dommage, it will totally be nice and would work well around different type of situation.
___

Also, coming back on magelight approach, I feel like magelight alone is good enough, I mean as a magika nightblade (not using mark) I use to be pretty op against stamina nightblade when they were going into cloak. And to be honnest, most of the time I had no issue with cloack at all, even as a stemplar.

The new meta of magelight I mean... magelight alone should make us keep our purgeable dot and should also gives us a bonus of 8% to dommage !

Strider_Roshin · February 2016

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Helluin wrote: »

Lifecode666 wrote: »

As mentioned by others.
Killers blade should deal physical damage.
Staminamorph.

I don't understand, why does Funnel Health not classify as a heal?

Not for stamina nightblade @JDar
___

I liked that suggestion @zerosingularity about making killerblade (the stamina morph) poison dommage, it will totally be nice and would work well around different type of situation.
___

Also, coming back on magelight approach, I feel like magelight alone is good enough, I mean as a magika nightblade (not using mark) I use to be pretty op against stamina nightblade when they were going into cloak. And to be honnest, most of the time I had no issue with cloack at all, even as a stemplar.

The new meta of magelight I mean... magelight alone should make us keep our purgeable dot and should also gives us a bonus of 8% to dommage !

There should also be a physical damage morph of death stroke.

bowmanz607 · February 2016

The only real issue i have with any of the changes is inner light and morphs is the fact that a player stays revealed for 5 seconds. Although on one level I feel it requires more skillful play to be able to get back into cloak, it also could effectivley work as a perma detect pot run by all mag users. In fact, many stam builds might run it as well now that it is not toggleable and does not take away 5% mag. Also, this works like revealing flare, so why would anyone choose revealing flare over this ability now? It would seem more appropriate to just keep them revealed in the range of the light. This way a nb can pull a skillful getaway while the other player can combine it with a gap closer. Perhaps scraping the remain reeled portion and increase the stealth detection radius. his would still give a wide range to detect a nb, while not acting as a perma-detect pot.

CtrlAltDlt · February 2016

All ults doing magic damage is a problem. With the new cp system which I like, there is no reason why the only ult that does physical damage is DK's leap...

Thevampirenight · February 2016

Well they could make the detection thing give after it was used a one minute immunity to being seen, and exposed again. For the person effected by it. Or a half a minate immunity to the expose effect,
This would prevent over spam of mage light and also give nightblades a chance with one of there most important skills to escape after the five second reveil and allow you to stealth away from the fight if need be.

Also it would bring some balance, it would prevent over use of mage light, but also hurt ganking. But also give nightblades an escape chance. Making it better for everyone.

Dalsinthus · February 2016

So many nerfs for the Stamblade... Where to even start?

CP system reamped to provide several sources of physical damage mitigation.
CP system changes give magic classes damage buffs to all skills and ultimates from a single star; stamblades need two stars to get the same benefits because ultimates and several skills do magic damage.
As noted above, several stamina based class skills (e.g., Killers Blade) and fighters guild powers (Camo Hunter) still do magic damage.
SA does not tick on DoTs anymore. This was a huge source of sustainability for PVE content.
Dark cloak nerfed, Magelight buffed.
Steel tornado nerfed. The radius decreasing from 12.5 to 9 means a 48.2% decrease in the area covered by this ability.

I find all of this really disappointing. The meta is going to swing to Magic Sorcs, Magic DKs, etc.

R0M2K · February 2016

So you finally nerf the core skill of the class (Shadow cloak)?

That plus me being a Stamina NB ends in me not buying your DLC and considering stopping playing the game at all. Thanks for nothing.

bowmanz607 · February 2016

Dalsinthus wrote: »

So many nerfs for the Stamblade... Where to even start?
CP system reamped to provide several sources of physical damage mitigation.

CP system changes give magic classes damage buffs to all skills and ultimates from a single star; stamblades need two stars to get the same benefits because ultimates and several skills do magic damage.

As noted above, several stamina based class skills (e.g., Killers Blade) and fighters guild powers (Camo Hunter) still do magic damage.

SA does not tick on DoTs anymore. This was a huge source of sustainability for PVE content.

Dark cloak nerfed, Magelight buffed.

Steel tornado nerfed. The radius decreasing from 12.5 to 9 means a 48.2% decrease in the area covered by this ability.

I find all of this really disappointing. The meta is going to swing to Magic Sorcs, Magic DKs, etc.

-the physicl damage mitigation now puts stamina on par with magic. Now it is even playing field. Stamina was OP in general because of this. Also, applied this is a nerf to all stam builds not just NB, so it is not a class nerf.

-this is how it has always been. this is not an additionaly nerf but one that was already in place. You cant call something that was already in place a nerf. Again, this applies to all stam builds not just NB, so it is not a class nerf.

-again, not a nerf, but something that is already in place.

-as for this I personally always thought it was crazy how you could get off of a dot tick. This was rightly done. Ofcourse, i dont really tank so i cant speak from that perspective.

-you call this a nerf, but i think it was evend out. It is a bit more balanced imo. Dark cloak completely negated what a single class (dk) rely on and completely igoners the reason for a champ star. I think having it take effect when coming out of stealth is a good balance. it doesnt negate a class or a a star, but still allows for defense from it which is unique and can, in theory, never take effect if you remain in cloak. That countered with the protection buff is nice. now we get protection buff and resist buff from using cloack. i like that. That said, i think mage light needs to be looked at. I liked most of what they did, but it should not keep a player from going back into stealth. it should only do it in the radius of the light and that is all. also, removing the visual que of a player running this is probelmatic imo.

-they reduced the radius and buffed the damage up at each rank. I think they hit the nail on the head here. the range was just too much on it. I never had an issue with the damage. Many people had issues with this ability becasue there are no good magic alternatives and everyone ran stam. Now, wall of elements gets a buff along with more people that will be hit harder from mag abilities because people wont load up in that star any more. also, this change effects all players and therefore is not a nb nerf.

many of the things you have listed are already in play or effect all classes equally. To make it sound like NB were nerfed on every aspect is misleading and untrue.

Creation · February 2016

Lets not forget about this hidden gem....

"Fixed an issue where it was possible to recover Stamina while using sprint or crouch."

So if we are lucky enough to get near another player with everyone slotting Magelight we will be low on stam to start with. Magblades will be able to just keep spamming cloak and getting their regen I assume. There seems to be very little reason to stay a stamina based Nightblade with the current changes on the PTS.

I am kind of surprised that was a bug, it seems like someone should be able to slot enough regen to sneak around and still be able to have a full pool to initiate.

Lokov · February 2016

Light attack animation with staffs when you cast skill - > light attack - > skill - > light attack is terrible.