Official Feedback Thread for Nightblades

ScruffyWhiskers

It reminds me of the time they nerfed Night's Silence. It was stony silence.

Gilvoth

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

It reminds me of the time they nerfed Night's Silence. It was stony silence.

very accurate

Gilvoth

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

if im understanding this correctly:

it means that i will have zero stamina regen while im in sneak?

allright, so if i go into sneak to move around and place myself behind some one for a sneak attack, by the time i get to the right position to do the attack i will probably be completely out of stamina?

Also:
if i try to stay in sneak and move around i will never at any time gain or recover ANY stamina, untill i completely STAND UP and leave sneak to regain stamina?

Also:
if i try to travel in sneak in cryodiil as i have since beta 2013, i will only be able to go a few feet and then have to again STAND UP and leave sneak every few seconds in order to continue traveling?

im still actively looking for an answer to this question.

Gilvoth

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

i guess im just going to stop playing my nightblade and return to my dragonight while i search for a better mmo that is more stealth based and morrowind like in game play.
the whole idea that i had intended from the very start of elderscrolls online was to have a class fit as closely to an assassin that kills from stealth just like was in morrowind.
using daggers laced with poisen and damage health, while wearing stealthy face mask type armor, and looking badd ass like an assassin, and all the while being feared for being a member of the dark brotherhood.

will this be possible as a dragonight instead of a nightblade?
no sneak abilities and no stealth line does truely ruin the entire experiance, and leaves me searching for another and better mmo that will have what i am looking for.
and i am willing to bet that my starvation for a stealth based class that is as close to morrowind type gameplay will be my immediate disapieriance from eso once i find an mmo that will have what i seek

i believe this is my only options on elderscrolls online.
unless a new stamina based stealth dagger wielding class is made in elderscrolls online, then this comment i quoted is my only future in gaming.

Sav72

Every class has least 1 defensive skill, (and I am being nice,by saying only 1)

DK, reflect
Sorc Shields
Temps Heals
NB cloak.

Another slap in the face for NBs.

Fear does not work all the time, so do not even want to hear about it.

Gilvoth

Sav72 wrote: »

Every class has least 1 defensive skill, (and I am being nice,by saying only 1)

DK, reflect
Sorc Shields
Temps Heals
NB cloak.

Another slap in the face for NBs.

Fear does not work all the time, so do not even want to hear about it.

your right, and by the way:

people now immediately break free from the "fear" skill. so its prety much useless now.

Decayed_Inside

Honestly I feel this entire situation is a direct effect of IC and the policy of ganking tel var stones from each other. It was a poorly thought out system that highly favored nightblades and as a result got this nerf. It was so easy for the entire playerbase to unify and blame "op Nitebladezz" when the real problem was the fact that the devs implemented a highly imbalanced system in the first place that favored one class so much. My suggestion to the devs is to think about the changes you make before you make them and take thing like this into consideration. My future prediction is if mage light is left in pts form it will result in the nerf of sorcs or magika classes in general because now the stealth players will be effected by extreme imbalance.

zyk

IMO, the Nightblade community needs to unite and send a message to ZOS that if they go through with breaking our class, we're not going to stick around for one or two quarterly updates for them to fix it.

We paid our dues at launch. I am not going through this again.

Sav72

What, I find funny is, you would of thought Thieves guild DLC, NB get some love.....(nothing but nerfs and, useless buffs)

What scares me now is, the Dark Brother Hood DLC.

Miwerton

Well ill see if they actually do something to not go trough with a couple of theyre least thought trough ideas.
If not there are other things to do (like fallout 4 creation kit when it eventually comes).

But the main problem is that the devs dont slum it with us who play the game, and tries all the styles, sets, abilities and skills to see which works and which ones are useless. And when someone comes with complete mathematical analysis of theyre errors, they complete ignore (they wouldnt want to hurt theyre egos).

Attackopsn

If these changes happen, then killer's blade, relentless focus, and a morph of soul harvest need to become physical or disease/poison based to line up with the new cp categories. I'm sure other tweaks will need to be made too, but those abilities (killer's blade in particular) need some love
Edit: I also think that instead of removing the chance to proc SA on caltrops and other DoTs, it should have a CD, so you cant throw it on ten people and get full resources but it still remains relevant.

bowmanz607

Attackopsn wrote: »

If these changes happen, then killer's blade, relentless focus, and a morph of soul harvest need to become physical or disease/poison based to line up with the new cp categories. I'm sure other tweaks will need to be made too, but those abilities (killer's blade in particular) need some love
Edit: I also think that instead of removing the chance to proc SA on caltrops and other DoTs, it should have a CD, so you cant throw it on ten people and get full resources but it still remains relevant.

I agree. Temp get heals. Dk gets fire. Sorc gets lightning. Nb gets poison.

Drop magic damage on Stam abilities and add poison damage.

Master_Kas

Empowering snipes from 40+ meters range with magelight in a full glass spec with the new marksman set will be nasty fun too on top of csmohunter which they failed to fix. People will still cry , but I wont care

GL breaking my stealth then

@DeanTheCat you join me on this crusade?

Helluin

Sav72 wrote: »

What, I find funny is, you would of thought Thieves guild DLC, NB get some love.....(nothing but nerfs and, useless buffs)

What scares me now is, the Dark Brother Hood DLC.

Well... we have NB's class symbol on Outlaws - Thieves Guild armor, that's love!

Our hope is this... by the end of Thieves Guild's quest line, Nocturnal appears just to players with NB as main giving them as gift something special...

Master_Kas wrote: »

Empowering snipes from 40+ meters range with magelight in a full glass spec with the new marksman set will be nasty fun too on top of csmohunter which they failed to fix. People will still cry , but I wont care

GL breaking my stealth then

@DeanTheCat you join me on this crusade?

That was my plan.

Cross faction alliance amongst NBs hunting around?

Gilvoth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdKUN8XbfBE

Decayed_Inside

Master_Kas wrote: »

Empowering snipes from 40+ meters range with magelight in a full glass spec with the new marksman set will be nasty fun too on top of csmohunter which they failed to fix. People will still cry , but I wont care

GL breaking my stealth then

@DeanTheCat you join me on this crusade?

My khajiit loves this idea.

ScruffyWhiskers

Decayed_Inside wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Empowering snipes from 40+ meters range with magelight in a full glass spec with the new marksman set will be nasty fun too on top of csmohunter which they failed to fix. People will still cry , but I wont care

GL breaking my stealth then

@DeanTheCat you join me on this crusade?

My khajiit loves this idea.

Good Lord. I've stuck with Magicka all this time since 1.6 despite being a Khajiit. I guess it might be time to either try the dark side or quit. There was an AD Khajiit that I used to see around called Little Kitty Soft Paws or something like that. She or he had the most outrageous snipes and you never saw where they were coming from. Might give that a shot and then decide what to do. IDK, this is really depressing.

silky_soft

zyk wrote: »

IMO, the Nightblade community needs to unite and send a message to ZOS that if they go through with breaking our class, we're not going to stick around for one or two quarterly updates for them to fix it.

We paid our dues at launch. I am not going through this again.

Cross faction understanding only attack other nb last.

Physical damage got a buff. But penetration got nerfed hard. Sharp trait is near useless. There is more then just this cloak nerf affecting nb.

Decayed_Inside

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Decayed_Inside wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Empowering snipes from 40+ meters range with magelight in a full glass spec with the new marksman set will be nasty fun too on top of csmohunter which they failed to fix. People will still cry , but I wont care

GL breaking my stealth then

@DeanTheCat you join me on this crusade?

My khajiit loves this idea.

Good Lord. I've stuck with Magicka all this time since 1.6 despite being a Khajiit. I guess it might be time to either try the dark side or quit. There was an AD Khajiit that I used to see around called Little Kitty Soft Paws or something like that. She or he had the most outrageous snipes and you never saw where they were coming from. Might give that a shot and then decide what to do. IDK, this is really depressing.

The snipes from stealth+camo hunter vs vamps are so lol.

dodgehopper_ESO

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Funnel Health (Strife morph): Reduced the application of the heal over time to you and one additional friendly target, previously two friendly targets.

What is the point of this? To further make sure Templar is the only class with viable class healing skill?

Their breath of life got a similar nerf. I guess their reasoning is that if they're going to nerf Templar heals, they'll nerf our heals too as consolation.

In fact, templar is the only class that has an entire skill tree dedicated to healing and it sacrifices its dps and aoe cc capabilities because of that. So it should excel better at healing than any other class. But what do i know.

I have no problem with Tamplar having an entire tree dedicated to healing, hence better at it. But that should not prevent other classes from having at least one or two healing skills to meet the goal of "do what you want with whatever classes", which, in my opinion, wielding healing staff and slotting the same healing staff skills count for.

Even after the nerf to Breath of Life, Templar still has an entire tree while NB has none. Now I wonder if any NB healer will slot Funnel Health. This change is more like a removal of healer role from NB instead of a nerf.

Siphoning is the Nightblade healing line, just as Earthen Heart is the DK healing line. If you can't see that you're not looking. I'd say both of those classes have better healing ultimates than Templar (Soul tether and Magma respectively). One skill from this line is the worst armor skill in the game (rune focus) due to zero mobility. One skill you can easily copy from alliance war (Purge). Funnel health & Obsidian Shard are another heal. Molten Weapons is a team buff (like radiant, only better as it is not commonly duplicated). Igneous Shield gives shielding to the whole team and pumps self stamina as well as granting major mending. Sap Essence heals nearby team and does good aoe damage. The rest of Nightblade siphoning line does help regeneration and debuffs, but its more selfish than Restoring Light. The rest of DK Earthen heartn line provides good debuffs and extremely strong snares and damage. Refreshing path from shadow line also gives a whole laundry list of self buffs and gives a heal over time for everyone on the path. Templar in terms of heals really only has BoL and Cleansing Ritual. Quit yer bitchin'.

I do think it might have been better to lower the cost of BoL and lower its healing magnitude, and they could have done the same thing to funnel if need be. I think they should have considered replacing (blinding flashes) for Healing Ritual, or completely rethink Healing Ritual with a better area effect, and make it a fire and forgot HoT. In this way it wouldn't be OP and Templars could have a reason to use it. I have to say I love playing the Sapper build of Nightblade, and I wouldn't sell them short as healers if that's what you're doing. Admittedly, I play an Argonian Nightblade with bonus to heals (incoming and outgoing) in my CP.

It is clear ZoS wants to make healing more affordable and functional for every class though with the incremental changes they've been making.

dodgehopper_ESO

Farorin wrote: »

My initial thought on the cloak change was that it wasn't so bad, but then considering my main is a stamblade, I thought about it and I realised that what is literally my only defensive ability has been gimped.

I am not too happy about it considering there are no other real defensive abilities available for a NB, and no other abilities were adjusted in a way to make up for the cloak adjustment.

I would be okay with it, if there was some other viable ability that would help me not insta-die when touched by a light breeze.

Try Harness Magicka, Efficient Purge, Bone Shield, Steadfast Ward to name a few. As a non-NB I have to dip out of class to get similar buffs of a NB, and I have to drink a potion to Vanish, which you can do innately and repeatedly. As an NB, I think they're making it so we have to LOS -then- Cloak more. If they gave out Cloak to all the other classes, I could see an argument for them to make a version of Bone Shield that also resisted magic damage, that would actually be pretty fair. Other classes have to use Shuffle for instance to replace Mirage. Also don't forget all the drains and heals over time you can pick up as a NB, or the fact you get a major buff to ar/sr every time you fire off a shadow skill (Such as Refreshing path or more likely Surprise Attack, as well as cloak).

I do agree it is pretty annoying though, but I'm built more for siphoning than for sneakiness, and I'll probably stack immobile + vanish potions on the Q slot, which in turn will give me a moderate attribute heal since I'm an Argonian.

Sav72

CLOAK is a NB bread and butter!

Just take it away already, and get the pain and aggravation, over with.

Out of all the MMOs, that I have played a stealth class. I have never seen so much abuse in a SEMI stealth class, like ESO.

Junkogen

Dalsinthus wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

if im understanding this correctly:

it means that i will have zero stamina regen while im in sneak?

allright, so if i go into sneak to move around and place myself behind some one for a sneak attack, by the time i get to the right position to do the attack i will probably be completely out of stamina?

Also:
if i try to stay in sneak and move around i will never at any time gain or recover ANY stamina, untill i completely STAND UP and leave sneak to regain stamina?

Also:
if i try to travel in sneak in cryodiil as i have since beta 2013, i will only be able to go a few feet and then have to again STAND UP and leave sneak every few seconds in order to continue traveling?

In another thread someone said that Stamina regen dropped to zero only while moving. I would like someone with access to the PTS to test this to confirm. If it is zero regen even while crouched in place, then I am done with my nightblade for pvp. I'll play a class with an actual defense instead.

So disappointed by this and the other nerfs to stealth gameplay.

Yeah, it seems like NB is the latest casualty of the Nerf Wars. They've hit them on all fronts. Nerf to cloak. Nerf to sneak. Nerf to siphoning. Nerf. Nerf. Nerf.

Tis the season for Sorcs and DKs. It's like we're going back in time.

CtrlAltDlt

Attackopsn wrote: »

If these changes happen, then killer's blade, relentless focus, and a morph of soul harvest need to become physical or disease/poison based to line up with the new cp categories. I'm sure other tweaks will need to be made too, but those abilities (killer's blade in particular) need some love
Edit: I also think that instead of removing the chance to proc SA on caltrops and other DoTs, it should have a CD, so you cant throw it on ten people and get full resources but it still remains relevant.

To this day, I still don't understand why DKs get the only ultimate that does physical damage.

Can somebody enlighten me?

Sav72

CtrlAltDlt wrote: »

Attackopsn wrote: »

If these changes happen, then killer's blade, relentless focus, and a morph of soul harvest need to become physical or disease/poison based to line up with the new cp categories. I'm sure other tweaks will need to be made too, but those abilities (killer's blade in particular) need some love
Edit: I also think that instead of removing the chance to proc SA on caltrops and other DoTs, it should have a CD, so you cant throw it on ten people and get full resources but it still remains relevant.

To this day, I still don't understand why DKs get the only ultimate that does physical damage.

Can somebody enlighten me?

They were not outsourced.

dodgehopper_ESO

Junkogen wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

if im understanding this correctly:

it means that i will have zero stamina regen while im in sneak?

allright, so if i go into sneak to move around and place myself behind some one for a sneak attack, by the time i get to the right position to do the attack i will probably be completely out of stamina?

Also:
if i try to stay in sneak and move around i will never at any time gain or recover ANY stamina, untill i completely STAND UP and leave sneak to regain stamina?

Also:
if i try to travel in sneak in cryodiil as i have since beta 2013, i will only be able to go a few feet and then have to again STAND UP and leave sneak every few seconds in order to continue traveling?

In another thread someone said that Stamina regen dropped to zero only while moving. I would like someone with access to the PTS to test this to confirm. If it is zero regen even while crouched in place, then I am done with my nightblade for pvp. I'll play a class with an actual defense instead.

So disappointed by this and the other nerfs to stealth gameplay.

Yeah, it seems like NB is the latest casualty of the Nerf Wars. They've hit them on all fronts. Nerf to cloak. Nerf to sneak. Nerf to siphoning. Nerf. Nerf. Nerf.

Tis the season for Sorcs and DKs. It's like we're going back in time.

This is why I wish they would add magic shield to they physical that is bone shield, and up its duration. Additionally, I wish they'd chuck a less-good version of cloak out there in a Thieves Guild skill line or such. In this way Nightblades don't feel short changed and can get a shield, and the rest of the classes can cloak about if they want (much like they get shuffle instead of mirage). At that point it isn't as big a concern and we can all move forward, being sneaky or not sneaky if we want to be.

Kalebron

Isnt't the reason the expansion was placed on PTS in the first place was to see if it actually worked well and caused no issues? This isn't a finality and even if it is, it just means we will just have more of a challenge depending on your play style.

lonewolf26

After playing PvE content for about 8 hours on the new patch I feel that Siphoning Attacks in its new form requires significant improvements to encourage group diversity. Specifically as it applies to my stamina-based nightblade I've found the new S.A. unable to come close to shoring-up my resource needs between potion cool downs when running as either dps or tank.

As dps I'd have to pull expensive a.o.e.s off of my bar (like caltrops), swap damage-focused abilities for those that promote regen (replace dawn breaker with werewolf), and focus more on single target execution, and sacrifice some health and mitigation in the Champion system for more resource recovery and cost reduction. I also had to change blue max health/max stam for blue Orsinium max health/stam recovery food to help fill-in the gaps. In large group pulls I was highly dependent on a Templar to supply repentance and spear shards to supplement my flagging resource recovery. All-in-all this felt like a significant nerf since most of my damage comes from DoTs (scorched earth, poison injection, acid spray, trap beast) mingled with a.o.e. (steel tornado) and single target attacks (surprise attack or flying blade) with light weaving. Light weaving isn't enough to keep my resources up in long pulls, unless you've got someone in the group who's feeding you with resources. We always run with Templars in our trials groups, but I do like to PuG dungeons.

As tank, I had to change up my rotation significantly. Caltrops still makes for a good opening move to grab initial aggro, but comes at a huge cost which might take you half a minute to stabilize your resource recovery. If your dps has decided to rush the pull, skip throwing them, there's no point unless you like the challenge of running pierce armor with half your stamina on the floor looking pretty. I also felt the resource return wasn't enough to keep Sap Essence running for a significant amount of time. Again i'm stam focused so I can get 3-4 off without trouble without significant procs from s.a. but without S.A. proccing, Sap becomes a wonderful way to burn out your magicka quickly thus making you unable to re-up S.A. This basically makes stam nightblade tanking no more than pierce armor, then light attack weave with cheap attacks, throw a couple heroic slashes in for ulti-gen. Overall I felt that this was not a fun way to tank. This tanking style was much less workable than the current meta due to its high dependence of doing direct damage as a tank. You've got an entire room to take care of, but if you want to control it, focus fire on this guy for 2-3 second to get resources back and pray your dps and healer can cope with taking a few more hits than normal. I've decent micro management, but even I've got limits to the amount of patience I have with this kind of build.

I feel that due to the revisions to S.A. it needs a significant boost to its proc percentage or resource return on light attacks to keep stamina builds viable. Otherwise be prepared to require Templars in your group for even basic dungeon content. In which case R.I.P. group diversity.

davey1107

Feedback on test server changes and sets:

You didn't buff much, but the general consensus was that NBs didn't need buffs.

You didn't nerf much, and the nerfs were the least intrusive possible from skills we expected to be nerfed.

BUT...

1. You didn't change much to make me want to dive back in and experience new skill combos.

2. The sets and gear are honestly not that appealing for a Stam NB.

3. Don't see anything here worth grinding for or continuing to level my character.

4. Stupidly, after waiting a year for Thieves Guild, NOTHING BUFFS SPEED AND SNEAK. Come on...even a magic version of Night Silence would be cool, and that was the lowest bar we could set for speed/sneak increasing sets.

Overall, I don't have much to scream about, but there's not much to rave about either. Not a lot here to incentivize continued play, for a Stam based NB.

burglar

zyk wrote: »

IMO, the Nightblade community needs to unite and send a message to ZOS that if they go through with breaking our class, we're not going to stick around for one or two quarterly updates for them to fix it.

We paid our dues at launch. I am not going through this again.

I agree with this, even though I think that it's a bit dramatic because nothing has been implemented fully, yet. I also don't enjoy pressuring people against their decisions, and I support your decisions ZOS, you're the same people who made the game great! But this change is just wrong, atleast when not paired with buffs to other aspects of nightblade.

One frustration with this is that there is no limitation on use whatsoever. One person could stealth/cloak into a group of people that are hidden/stealthed, use this one skill and reveal EVERYONE in stealth in that radius, AND on top of it, prevent nightblades from using one of their primary skills.

What's going to prevent people from just running 8 meters apart and spamming this ability all over the place? This is a crippling blow to the nature of playing a stealthing class, when cloak is an integral part of playing one. We could have a really strong evasion passive instead, or really strong detection radius passives?

Here's a quote from another thread that I agree with:

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

The problem is it has so many upsides and no downsides to running it, so 50% or more of PVPers will slot it.

It used to provide 10% crit, reduce magic by 5%, and provide stealth detect and 56% resistance from stealth attacks. This made players choose between this morph which is more defensive and reduces your damage, and caused many to opt for Inner Light which gave crit and 5% more magicka, but did not have the stealth detect/56% reduced stealth damage. It was also a toggle, which meant you needed to double bar it in most situations, unless you were very good at reactivating when bar swapping which deterred alot of players from using it to preserve bar space.

Now you don't take reduced magic, they buffed the detect ability, it gives Empower, and you no longer have to toggle/double bar it. Its going to be too good in PVP to not put it on your bar.

This will effect way more than just NB's. Any attacks from stealth are reduced 56% for any class. No one will even want to attack from stealth anymore if there is a 50%+ chance the guy on the receiving end has 56% resistance to that attack. Why even go into stealth if chances are your attack will be gimped compared to being out of stealth?

This is a great point. Magelight is going to be spammable, so cloak isn't going to be much of an option as a defense; i get the feeling that people are going to find ways to exploit the crap out of this.

The changes to cloak, and changes to magelight are making me worry about my race. Magelight completely negates my racial passive, and the change to cloak severely reduces the effectiveness of stam NBs. Granted my racial passives can still be beneficial when someone doesn't have RML up, which should be often now that it's no longer a toggle.

Tyrion87 wrote: »

No, when the changes are eventually applied, the balance will be finally restored.

For a long time we've been experiencing a huge advantage of NBs over any other class. The cloak + ambush are (soon: were) the pain in the arse of 30% of players playing classes other than the NB. Yeah, approx. 70% of chars I see in PvP (especially in Imperial City) are the NBs (check the polls on the forum). This fact just speaks for itself: this class is now the easiest-to-play and the most OP. It is obvious that it needs a nerf to restore the balance to the game (or rather to PvP). It's also understandable that people who play the NBs are opposing the changes but it's just inevitable. That issue has been talked about for a long time.

The changes made to magelight are really a clever way to do so. NBs will be still attractive though. The stealth detection from inner light will require its cast so basically the NBs can hide behind the cloak just before the first attack which is enough.

By this reasoning, it's in my best interest to use cloak only before a stealth attack? So, remove a slot from other users bars, remove the defensive utility of cloak, and add an additional ability to my bar for the purpose of playing the role I chose my class to revolve around. I wanted to play a stealther, so I chose nightblade. I don't like spamming claok. What I would prefer are stronger passives to stay stealthed until I attack. As it stands, stealth is too weak. Nightblades have no choice but to use cloak as it is.

WIth the increase in sprint speed too, its not going to be hard to catch someone who tries to cloak away by chasing them while spamming magelight.

Pair that with a large detection radius (this really should decrease more than it does as we level up), as soon as anyone in stealth is seen people will run around spamming magelight. It's going to be really *** playing an NB, honestly. It's going to feel like a sick joke, 'haha you think you can stealth, but you cant'.

Stealth could be severely crippled, to a point that it might only be useful in PvE, or when hiding at a distance - which anyone can do. What class am I playing again? 'Dark sorcerer' or maybe a 'dark mage'? I thought I was a stealthing class.

ZOS, if you're going to do this make us more of a stealthing class, not less of one.

Possible solutions, or just my suggestions:

• ////My favorite idea////
• If you're gonna remove the usefulness of cloak altogether; Give nightblades stronger detection radius passives to make it easier to stay hidden UNTIL we're revealed. As it stands stealth is already weak, this change completely destroys it. I am all about preventing cloak spam, but damnit, let me be a stealther who can stay hidden, until I am revealed. i.e. Nerf the crap out of cloak, or even remove it! but, MOAR STEALTH RADIUS DECREASE PASSIVES PLEEAAAASSSEEEE; Give us poisons, and built-in evasion passives!
• OR,
• Maybe make cloak do different things while in battle, and while out of battle?
• Give magelight a major cooldown; 20+ seconds.
• Make other people in the vicinity unable to use the ability for a period, when someone else near them has used it, to prevent spamming.
• Give us the ability to resist the ability, don't make it work 100% of the time, make it work 50% of the time.
• Make the duration of the lasting effects randomized between 1 and 5 seconds.

The most frustrating part about this whole change is that there are methods to combat cloak spammers, but people don't know how to defend against it. In my opinion, the fix for that is education, not changing a class.