Stop lying^^^cliveklgb14_ESO wrote: »valkaneer2b14_ESO wrote: »
Really? an AoE cap all along???? .
Yes it has always been there. Just because you were too blind to notice it was only a few skills without it, doesn't mean it wasn't there.
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »One of the 1.1 patch notes described some AoE (area-of-effect) abilities having their maximum number of targets reduced. This led to some consternation among the community – our apologies for the confusion; we should have been more explicit in the patch notes. Here’s the information:
All AoE effect abilities in ESO have a max target limit of six, and always have. The exceptions to this are Alliance War-specific abilities, and several others, which are specifically noted (in tooltips) as having a higher or lower limit. So, if an AoE’s ability tooltip does not list it as having a special number (greater than or less than 6) of targets, it was designed to affect 6 targets, maximum.
Abilities that apply a buff to an ally (health regeneration) have a max target limit on cast, but can be applied to an infinite number of targets. For example, Regeneration has a max target limit of two, but it will always first try to hit allies that don't already have the buff. Two successive casts of Regeneration allow quick buffing of a four-person group. Please be aware that this is not the case for AoE debuffs, which apply to the nearest enemy targets or the center of the spell for ground-target AoE abilities.
Alliance War abilities generally hit a larger number of targets. We’ve designed them this way to better support their intended use in large-scale PvP. Each Alliance War ability’s max target cap, if they have one, is per ability (the morphs are the same as the base spells.) Siege Weapons have no max target – they will affect anyone who is in their target radius.
- Assault
- Caltrops: Max target limit of 12
- Rapid Maneuvers: No max target limit
- War Horn: Max target limit of 24
- Support
- Barrier: Max target limit of 20
- Purge: No max target limit
- Siege Shield: Max target limit of 20
Changes/Pending Changes
With that explanation, here are the changes that are being made in version 1.1 (subject to testing).
- The following abilities had a higher max limit than six, and have been fixed to be in-line with all other area-of-effect abilities:
- Consuming Darkness (Nightblade)
- Dragonknight Standard (Dragonknight)
- Negate Magic (Sorcerer)
- Scalding Rune (Fire Rune Morph - Mages Guild)
- Soul Shatter (Soul Magic)
Also, we are currently investigating Dark Talons, Blood Altar, and Rite of Passage, which may not be obeying the max target limit.
cliveklgb14_ESO wrote: »I don't really see the point of an AoE cap either. If your whole group got hit by a single AoE, I'm sorry, your group was just doing it wrong and letting people farm you like trashmobs.
And the same could be said about no AoE cap. If you are relying on no cap AoE spam to hit a bunch of people in EZ mode, you are doing it wrong.
cliveklgb14_ESO wrote: »but turtling and AoE cap isn't anywhere near the spirit of DAoC, atleast GW2 is free... Hurray...
You do realize no AOE caps are what promote zerg ball turtling? It is ridiculous EZ mode PvP with no thought at all. Just spam your AoEs.
Bunching together are what armies of the times did.
Lava_Croft wrote: »Yes, because not agreeing with the small, vocal minority is trolling. What is this, Reddit?prana33b14_ESO wrote: »No, what is sad is you trolling this thread without any actual responses on how GW2 style zerg balls won't become an issue. People concerned about this were concerned about it before launch. You are right I didn't notice the caps. I'm level 17 and haven't gotten to pvp at all yet because I'm so busy. What a gotcha.
cliveklgb14_ESO wrote: »Trayyacakes wrote: »
Please explain this logic.
Stacking AoE EZ mode spam.
What it comes down to is people crying about losing their easy mode abilities.
xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »cliveklgb14_ESO wrote: »but turtling and AoE cap isn't anywhere near the spirit of DAoC, atleast GW2 is free... Hurray...
You do realize no AOE caps are what promote zerg ball turtling? It is ridiculous EZ mode PvP with no thought at all. Just spam your AoEs.
Bunching together are what armies of the times did.
......Ummm no....you would never ball up in a turtle against no AoE caps.. unless you're stupid.
valkaneer2b14_ESO wrote: »xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »cliveklgb14_ESO wrote: »but turtling and AoE cap isn't anywhere near the spirit of DAoC, atleast GW2 is free... Hurray...
You do realize no AOE caps are what promote zerg ball turtling? It is ridiculous EZ mode PvP with no thought at all. Just spam your AoEs.
Bunching together are what armies of the times did.
......Ummm no....you would never ball up in a turtle against no AoE caps.. unless you're stupid.
Well, that's not totally correct. In games like Wow in which the AoE heals far surpass AoE damage spells, it would make sense to ball up. Most of these ppl I think are coming from Wow and games where healing is drastically OP. Even in Shadowbane you had to stack. With the kind of damage AoE's did they could one shot you, but the heals were so powerful along with bard spells that you stand in that kind of AoE and not die if you were stacked with the bards and healers. But in Shadowbane it took almost a full 10 man group to be able to run that kind of an engineered group.
valkaneer2b14_ESO wrote: »xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »cliveklgb14_ESO wrote: »but turtling and AoE cap isn't anywhere near the spirit of DAoC, atleast GW2 is free... Hurray...
You do realize no AOE caps are what promote zerg ball turtling? It is ridiculous EZ mode PvP with no thought at all. Just spam your AoEs.
Bunching together are what armies of the times did.
......Ummm no....you would never ball up in a turtle against no AoE caps.. unless you're stupid.
Well, that's not totally correct. In games like Wow in which the AoE heals far surpass AoE damage spells, it would make sense to ball up. Most of these ppl I think are coming from Wow and games where healing is drastically OP. Even in Shadowbane you had to stack. With the kind of damage AoE's did they could one shot you, but the heals were so powerful along with bard spells that you stand in that kind of AoE and not die if you were stacked with the bards and healers. But in Shadowbane it took almost a full 10 man group to be able to run that kind of an engineered group.
xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »valkaneer2b14_ESO wrote: »xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »cliveklgb14_ESO wrote: »but turtling and AoE cap isn't anywhere near the spirit of DAoC, atleast GW2 is free... Hurray...
You do realize no AOE caps are what promote zerg ball turtling? It is ridiculous EZ mode PvP with no thought at all. Just spam your AoEs.
Bunching together are what armies of the times did.
......Ummm no....you would never ball up in a turtle against no AoE caps.. unless you're stupid.
Well, that's not totally correct. In games like Wow in which the AoE heals far surpass AoE damage spells, it would make sense to ball up. Most of these ppl I think are coming from Wow and games where healing is drastically OP. Even in Shadowbane you had to stack. With the kind of damage AoE's did they could one shot you, but the heals were so powerful along with bard spells that you stand in that kind of AoE and not die if you were stacked with the bards and healers. But in Shadowbane it took almost a full 10 man group to be able to run that kind of an engineered group.
WoW has an AoE cap
So did Shadowbane
This thread has turned into a fight between experienced RvR players who want no cap because it destroys skilled pvp..... and inexperienced players who have no idea what they are talking about... saying a cap sounds great because they got pooped on for not paying attention and getting stomped by a skilled smaller force.
This thread has turned into a fight between experienced RvR players who want no cap because it destroys skilled pvp..... and inexperienced players who have no idea what they are talking about... saying a cap sounds great because they got pooped on for not paying attention and getting stomped by a skilled smaller force.
There is no skill involved in AOE bombing an enemy zerg. Skilled PVP players have not had issues with the existing cap, nor will they have after the small changes in 1.1. If you have issues with the cap, it only proves that experience does not equal skill.
If you think no AoE cap = Mindless AoE spamming you don't get it. PEOPLE WILL SPREAD OUT SO THEY CAN'T BE MINDLESSLY SPAMMED. That's the whole entire point of NO AOE CAP. People spread out because they don't want to be pwnt, battles become more dynamic, position dependent, tactical, even realistic (ooooh). For those immersion junkies, which would you rather see, 50 people stacked inside each other (AoE cap), or 50 people spread out across a battle-line?(no AoE cap)
This thread has turned into a fight between experienced RvR players who want no cap because it destroys skilled pvp..... and inexperienced players who have no idea what they are talking about... saying a cap sounds great because they got pooped on for not paying attention and getting stomped by a skilled smaller force.
There is no skill involved in AOE bombing an enemy zerg. Skilled PVP players have not had issues with the existing cap, nor will they have after the small changes in 1.1. If you have issues with the cap, it only proves that experience does not equal skill.
valkaneer2b14_ESO wrote: »I want to see these AoE cap fanboys work with there raid to single target focus and burn healer after healer down *in a stacked zerg*. They can't cuz there is no /target function, so it becomes Zerg vs Zerg.
I've had no problems identifying and targeting squishies in an enemy zerg. If you do, maybe you just need to L2P instead of looking for an easy 1-button solution?
This thread has turned into a fight between experienced RvR players who want no cap because it destroys skilled pvp..... and inexperienced players who have no idea what they are talking about... saying a cap sounds great because they got pooped on for not paying attention and getting stomped by a skilled smaller force.
There is no skill involved in AOE bombing an enemy zerg. Skilled PVP players have not had issues with the existing cap, nor will they have after the small changes in 1.1. If you have issues with the cap, it only proves that experience does not equal skill.
This thread has turned into a fight between experienced RvR players who want no cap because it destroys skilled pvp..... and inexperienced players who have no idea what they are talking about... saying a cap sounds great because they got pooped on for not paying attention and getting stomped by a skilled smaller force.
There is no skill involved in AOE bombing an enemy zerg. Skilled PVP players have not had issues with the existing cap, nor will they have after the small changes in 1.1. If you have issues with the cap, it only proves that experience does not equal skill.
So how do you skillfully deal with a zerg without AoEs then, except with a bigger zerg? We've been trying to figure this question out on GW2 for the last year.
valkaneer2b14_ESO wrote: »I want to see these AoE cap fanboys work with there raid to single target focus and burn healer after healer down *in a stacked zerg*. They can't cuz there is no /target function, so it becomes Zerg vs Zerg.
I've had no problems identifying and targeting squishies in an enemy zerg. If you do, maybe you just need to L2P instead of looking for an easy 1-button solution?
This thread has turned into a fight between experienced RvR players who want no cap because it destroys skilled pvp..... and inexperienced players who have no idea what they are talking about... saying a cap sounds great because they got pooped on for not paying attention and getting stomped by a skilled smaller force.
There is no skill involved in AOE bombing an enemy zerg. Skilled PVP players have not had issues with the existing cap, nor will they have after the small changes in 1.1. If you have issues with the cap, it only proves that experience does not equal skill.
So how do you skillfully deal with a zerg without AoEs then, except with a bigger zerg? We've been trying to figure this question out on GW2 for the last year.
Amazing how we haven't found one yet isn't it? With thousands of players.
The charming individual you quoted will never understand. You can explain all day, give examples, show proof. But in the end, all he wants to do is find someone to attempt to insult so his epeen can grow a few inches.
This thread has turned into a fight between experienced RvR players who want no cap because it destroys skilled pvp..... and inexperienced players who have no idea what they are talking about... saying a cap sounds great because they got pooped on for not paying attention and getting stomped by a skilled smaller force.
There is no skill involved in AOE bombing an enemy zerg. Skilled PVP players have not had issues with the existing cap, nor will they have after the small changes in 1.1. If you have issues with the cap, it only proves that experience does not equal skill.
So how do you skillfully deal with a zerg without AoEs then, except with a bigger zerg? We've been trying to figure this question out on GW2 for the last year.
Amazing how we haven't found one yet isn't it? With thousands of players.
The charming individual you quoted will never understand. You can explain all day, give examples, show proof. But in the end, all he wants to do is find someone to attempt to insult so his epeen can grow a few inches.
And is a huge bloody problem. If another server hugely out numbers you in any given battleground, you're screwed. There's nothing you can do except die trying.
WvW/AvA becomes then just a numbers game. If you got a lot more than them, you win, if you got a lot less than them, you lose. There's no point to even playing half the time because the outcome is already set in stone.
This thread has turned into a fight between experienced RvR players who want no cap because it destroys skilled pvp..... and inexperienced players who have no idea what they are talking about... saying a cap sounds great because they got pooped on for not paying attention and getting stomped by a skilled smaller force.
There is no skill involved in AOE bombing an enemy zerg. Skilled PVP players have not had issues with the existing cap, nor will they have after the small changes in 1.1. If you have issues with the cap, it only proves that experience does not equal skill.
So how do you skillfully deal with a zerg without AoEs then, except with a bigger zerg? We've been trying to figure this question out on GW2 for the last year.
Amazing how we haven't found one yet isn't it? With thousands of players.
The charming individual you quoted will never understand. You can explain all day, give examples, show proof. But in the end, all he wants to do is find someone to attempt to insult so his epeen can grow a few inches.
And is a huge bloody problem. If another server hugely out numbers you in any given battleground, you're screwed. There's nothing you can do except die trying.
WvW/AvA becomes then just a numbers game. If you got a lot more than them, you win, if you got a lot less than them, you lose. There's no point to even playing half the time because the outcome is already set in stone.
Yup yup, and yup! Open field you have no chance, and even if you have a choke point or some other kind of advantageous position, you're STILL going to need close to their same number to have a chance of outplaying them.
This thread has turned into a fight between experienced RvR players who want no cap because it destroys skilled pvp..... and inexperienced players who have no idea what they are talking about... saying a cap sounds great because they got pooped on for not paying attention and getting stomped by a skilled smaller force.
YES THERE ARE SKILLS THAT ARE HORRIBLY IMBALANCED AND NEED MAJOR MECHANIC TWEAKING AND FIXES. That is NOT the topic being discussed here, EVERYONE who is advocating no AoE cap understands this and wants to see them bug fixed and balanced out.
The mere fact that AoE capping has been approached in this way by ZO shows an extreme lack of experience on their part. Which I wouldn't mind so much, as their lack of knowledge might bring fresh ideas to the table, but changes like this one will destroy the game in no-time flat, and this must be realized.
As a hardcore pvp player with over 4600 hours played in tier 1 WvW in GW2.... I can with full honesty say that I will be cancelling my sub if AoE capping is something ZO plans to be permanent. This is a very serious topic. If you think AoE capping is no small thing, you have no idea what you are in for. I am TIRED of mindless zerging, it's fun when you're just bored and feel like derping around, but it destroys games. The only reason GW2 continues to survive in some way is because it's free. It completely lacks PvE content, the sPvP is terribad, and WvW is all zerging. But it's free, so people still play it.
What will happen when ESO AvA turns into the same thing, and we have to pay monthly for it? You think TES fans will sustain it? Fat chance. PvP is the most sustainable endgame for MMOs, treat the community poorly and you will lose your hard-core long-haul players who are willing to play games for YEARS.
I've grown up playing TES games, and I've spent thousands of hours in them. I've even enjoyed the PvE in this game, which is a rarety for me in a MMO, but I will be quitting if PvP turns to crap, which is what AoE capping will do. If you think otherwise, you need to open your eyes and try to understand what these experienced players are trying to explain to you.
If you think no AoE cap = Mindless AoE spamming you don't get it. PEOPLE WILL SPREAD OUT SO THEY CAN'T BE MINDLESSLY SPAMMED. That's the whole entire point of NO AOE CAP. People spread out because they don't want to be pwnt, battles become more dynamic, position dependent, tactical, even realistic (ooooh). For those immersion junkies, which would you rather see, 50 people stacked inside each other (AoE cap), or 50 people spread out across a battle-line?(no AoE cap)