Templars Are so underpowered

captain_awesome

sommazzatoreb14_ESO wrote: »

visionlyricsub17_ESO wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

This is how I grade the classes:
Dragonknight: A+
Sorcerer: A
Templar: B+
Nightblade: D-

It could always be worse, you could have rolled a Nightblade.

Serious question here this is regarding pve right? Because NB rocks in pvp ROCKS!!!!!! Templar class does well all around in pvp and pve. I play a NB and my buddy is a templar healer. We mostly pvp but we also have no issues in the vet dungeons so far. He's a great healer so I'd have to advise the OP to recheck his build that's where the issue most likely is (or skill level as the VR content finally provides a small challenge).

Yea, He does well because he has you there doing the damage and hes just supporting.

And to everyone who keeps talking about leveling, I said it was alright as templar to level him, but once you hit Veteran Ranks, trust me, you will shelf him real quick unless you have a people to play with,

Got to V5-ish solo, had a lot of problems after that solo. Being stomped by 2-3 mobs. My mate is a Sorcerer he just face rolls through, same as the DKs in my guild. My brother has a NB and he says he's doing ok no problems at V1.

Imho Templar feels underpowered, in mana regen and dps in the Aedric Spear line. Although I have nothing else V10 to compare it with yet, I will be rolling a Sorcerer next in a feew weeks @ V10 I'll know for sure if Templar is a gimp class..

Cheveyo

sommazzatoreb14_ESO wrote: »

Thanks but I'm a Veteran Four and Have tried every combo/bar setup/Weapon/Armor Enchants with all the above and nothing gets me able to pve solo at all. A lot of you guys are talking about lower levels, and yes, you are right. At low levels you do great. Wait till you get to the Alki'r Desert or Rivenspire lol. Just trust me.

(Btw you are right about biting jabs, thats the morphed version I use too. I thought Puncturig Strikes was the non-morphed, my bad).

Try getting rid of most of your Templar attacks and start using mostly the weapon ones. Also, either use sword and board for melee, or pick up a bow and start using that to open.

Right now, I only use Sun Shield and Sun Fire, with Sweep and Nova as Ultimates. I used to use a 2h weapon, but I tried out dual wield and found my kill speed was faster.

What attacks I use in a fight, depends entirely on the enemies I'm facing. If they're undead or demons, I use Silver Bolts from the Fighter's Guild. If they're not, then I switch out Silver Bolts for Javelin.(Yes, I open up my skills window and switch out abilities in the field as I go).
I try and open with Snipe(bow attack) at all times. Opening up on the most dangerous ranged enemy of the group of 2 or 3. If I can't, I still try and get the sneak attack bonus... it REALLY helps when facing several mobs. Snipe->Poison Arrow->Sunfire(Reflective Light). If I can't Snipe because I'm too close, I try and open with a regular strong attack immediately followed by Poison Arrow, then Sunfire. Sometimes I can get both the basic attack and poison arrow to get the sneak attack bonus on the target.
Once everything is angry at me, I use Javelin/Silver Bolts on one of the targets. If there's a caster, that's who I use it on. If there wasn't a caster, I use it on the mob I didn't just open up on. By the time I'm in melee range, I weapon switch and use Sun Shield, then I start using my weapon attacks. The first target is usually dead by this time, so I start wailing on the second, making sure to interrupt and dodge roll when I have to. (If the first target is still alive, I either finish it with a Whirlwind, or another weapon attack if they have too much HP still.) I reapply sun shield whenever it goes down.

Removing most of my Templar attacks has dramatically increased my survivability.


For stronger enemies, first I check see if Javelin/Silver Bolts works. If not, I die fighting, then rez and wait for someone else to come along... Or, in the case of quest bosses, I run around, hiding behind pillars and walls, poking my head out long enough to shoot poison arrow at them. Maybe fire a few more shots at them, then running back behind cover to wait for magicka to regen so I can heal.

Drekor

Lahan wrote: »

Backlash sounds wonderful on paper, until you learn that the maximum damage you can do with it is 933 with 1.5s cast time and 7+ second charge time.

1530 actually

Sandhya

Lahan wrote: »

Templars are the worst class in the game. They are only good for healing.

All their skills are absolute trash when it comes to scaling damage wise after VR1.

Sun Shield is gutter trash because damage bubbles are gutter trash in this game.

Focus Rune is trash because you have to stand in that tiny circle to get the buff, in a game where you are forced to move around and dodge red zones.

Blinding Light is the lamest skill in game.

Backlash sounds wonderful on paper, until you learn that the maximum damage you can do with it is 933 with 1.5s cast time and 7+ second charge time.

All their damage spells have high mana cost and low damage.

I don't recognize this, or the fact that Templar would be underpowered. So far apart from world bosses I have not met a single challenge I couldn't overcome. 10-12k HP bosses die rather quickly and with little risk of dying. And yes, I am VR5 atm, so I am talking about VR content here.

Sun Shield, for one, is pure awesome - but it needs to morph into Blazing Shield. Effectively this gives you a 300+ damage explosion every time it gets destroyed and you can spam that stuff. As long as Blazing Shield is up, you're not losing a single point of HP, giving you an effective health bar that can be over twice your total health, which is huge. All the while recovering lost HP while shield protects you.

From the skills you listed, one is a tanking skill by nature (Rune Focus) and two are PvP- or group PvE-oriented skills. Why would you tackle VR content with those, waiting for a mob casting spells or blinding them while you need to just do damage? It makes no sense. No wonder your Templar experience is 'underpowered' - you're not using damage skills.

The key to a DPS increase on Templar is mana efficiency. Templars who can spam from their magicka pool are incredibly powerful. I currently run a Breton 5LA/2HA Templar, using sword and board and a skillbar with class skills ONLY. Not a single stamina-based skill - I am fully focused on reducing magicka cost (softcapped - Blazing Shield @ 220 Magicka for example) and have softcapped magicka regen (93) and magicka (just under 2k) with only 1100 Stamina. The only things I use stamina for, is to spam Shield Bash for 250+ damage per bash (@ 1 attack/second this is an incredibly powerful attack when spammed), dodge and block.

By focusing on Magicka and its regen combined with a softcapped cost reduction, I can stay in fights almost indefinitely, and with the added mitigation from shield blocks, the 'free' damage coming from boosted shield Bash, and the -50% HP mana return from Honor the Dead, only unkiteable bosses with significant burst damage can really take me down. Everything else gets tanked with Blazing Shield / Biting Jabs spam, adding in some extra dps with Reflective Light while doing so. Normal mob packs die within 10-15 seconds and I run to the next pack with 66% magicka left, 75% when the next fight starts. If it gets hot, I only need to buy some time with Honor the Dead heals and blocking, maybe a mana pot, or weapon swap > Repentance if there are corpses nearby. Recently swapped in the Soul Blast ultimate to tackle hard, high HP single targets, because every other skill is well suited to AoE. Now the build feels complete and versatile.

And this is just my playstyle, which I have found to be very effective, and doesn't even utilize the eternal Bow (even though I am levelling that one ;D) plus kite/snare tactics which I personally find utterly lame. I am practically tanking with a 5 LA Templar, and the harder the enemy hits, the faster it dies. Loving it.

Warhealer

Templar did get harder to solo as VR started, I just had to respect mine. I use spear charge, puncturing spears still and a sword and board skill that reduces spell and melee resist by 40% with vampire mist form and Repentance on my skill line with Devouring swarm as my ultimate. Im still Vr3 so I don't know how it will keep going but yeah, compared to DK and Sorc, Templars are very tricky to play.

Seyanne

Sandhya wrote: »

The key to a DPS increase on Templar is mana efficiency. Templars who can spam from their magicka pool are incredibly powerful. I currently run a Breton 5LA/2HA Templar, using sword and board and a skillbar with class skills ONLY. Not a single stamina-based skill - I am fully focused on reducing magicka cost (softcapped - Blazing Shield @ 220 Magicka for example) and have softcapped magicka regen (93) and magicka (just under 2k) with only 1100 Stamina. The only things I use stamina for, is to spam Shield Bash for 250+ damage per bash (@ 1 attack/second this is an incredibly powerful attack when spammed), dodge and block.

I play quite similar to this, tho less defensively (no blazing shield atm) and at VR6, I'm still fine soloing VR content.

Ive gone full magicka aswell (no bonusses to stamina at all). With 5 heavy/2 light armor, 1h+shield, with soft cap on magicka, magicka regen, armor and spell resistance. I also rely almost completely on class skills and not on weapon skills.

Volcanic rune is the only non class skill I always have on my bar, because it fills the need for aoe cc templars have. On my secondary weapon set, Ive also got equilibrium for magicka, which I dont really like as a skill, but used well, it does work. When soloing, I always use soul assault as my ultimate because its a good way to even the odds against groups of 3 or more.


end of the day, templars are not underpowered, and definitely capable of running VR content solo. The steep mana cost on our skills can definitely be a problem, but not to the ruin of the class.

Tannakaobi

Nightblade B+?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl2m_6dC-ew


It seems to me that all the classes are A+ and E- depending on who's building...

I have had no problems with my Templar although to be fair I have built as a PVP ranged/healer, but still...

Aaren

Sandhya wrote: »

Sun Shield, for one, is pure awesome - but it needs to morph into Blazing Shield. Effectively this gives you a 300+ damage explosion every time it gets destroyed and you can spam that stuff. As long as Blazing Shield is up, you're not losing a single point of HP, giving you an effective health bar that can be over twice your total health, which is huge. All the while recovering lost HP while shield protects you.

This is really exciting to hear. I hadn't really ever entertained the blazing shield morph. I hadn't even spec'd into sun shield because of it not being affected by any mitigation, and had only really thought about radiant ward. I'm going to give this a go tonight. Thank you for posting.

I definitely agree that we are not underpowered. We do have some limitations in important areas such as AoE CC.

What I had been doing for big pulls in veteran questing is stunning one with power bash (1h&sh), then shield bashing one mob to lowish health, and biting jabs the pack minus what was stunned, until the low health mob died. Then it is just rinse and repeat, using radiant aura when my stamina started to get lowish. For weaker groups, I would solar barrage while blocking, then circle strafe and biting jabs.

Ravinsild

I'm currently facing this issue and I really am unsure what to do. I see other classes (Sorcerers) just smash through monsters while I struggle with a Pack of 3.

I'm running Heavy 5 with Medium 2 on a Stamina heavy build. My allocations are 5 Magicka, 29 HP and 15 in Stamina. I have Green Quality 5 pieces of VR4 Heavy Armor self crafted, with 2 green piece of VR4 medium armor self crafted (Helmet and belt if it matters) with a Blue Quality VR4 2h Axe and 2h Sword. I am Veteran Rank 4 on Aldmeri Dominion. 4 Enchants of Stamina on I believe Helmet, Chest, Legs and Shoulders with 3 Enchants (Merchant Bought so basic default white quality for all enchants btw) of Magicka on the Belt, Hands and Boots.

My skills are invested in level 50 Medium, Level 50 Heavy, Level 50 Two-Handed Weapon, my Aedric Spear is level 46, my Dawn's Wrath is level 50 and my Restoring Light is level 45.

I found that as a Rank 10 Vampire I could usually just outlast with the healing ultimate, the Drain and the skill "Honor the Dead" while running Reverse Slash, Wrecking Blow and Toppling Charge.

Last night I changed over to Werewolf to give it a try and I went from tons of survivability, so I could outlast most encounters, to LIMITED survivability and playing as I suppose a "normal" Templar would play like although without the benefits of a quicker Ultimate.

I've used variants of Toppling Charge or Critical Rush, now I'm using Puncturing Sweep...Wrecking Blow seems to be a must as it's the only hard CC I seem to be able to get. Reverse Slash is still great, however I no longer have the stamina and magicka recovery of Supernatural recovery nor the full stamina recharge plus heal of Drain Essence.

I tried Sun Shield, Restorative Aura and many other various skills to attempt to increase my survivability.

So now playing a normal person without the, simply put, blatantly overpowered Vampire skills to crutch me along how can I survive and do better? I'm VR4 with a very focused build, I've got no skills in Bow or Sword and Shield and I had been using the same build essentially since level 13 (When I became a vampire).

Should I just forget werewolf and go get my crutch back? I was hoping to get it to rank 10 to get the "real feel" of the skill line.

Any tips or suggestions?

Here's a basically accurate recreation of my character as he stands now:

http://esohead.com/calculator/skills#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

WolfSkin

I'm currently VR2 and I have a hard time soloing stuff.... run out of mana quickly, stamina too, mobs just hit like trucks...

it's very frustrating.

Nord Templar.

Bhakura

Obscure wrote: »

This is how I grade the classes:
Dragonknight: A+
Sorcerer: A
Templar: B+
Nightblade: D-

You obviously havent rolled a caster nightblade yet. They have better mana managment then sorcerers. Even with siphoning strikes active i tend to draw agro pure on dps because of never running out of magicka and able to spam spells like theres no tomorow, not to mention insane fast ultimate building.
Just leveled to vet3 so ill see how well i do in t3 area, but imho its gonna stay as smooth as it was in t2, soloing public dungeon, solod every single worldboss, yes died once or twice, because of bad timing skills.
But giving a nightblade a D- obviously is because you made the typical bow/dual wield nightblade.
And yes made one too and rerolled another nb to be caster because they are single target, soloing groups was to much of a pain.
I suggest you look into nb again, siphon mage or shadowpriest or combination of the two is quite a walk in the park.
In vet zones it does require some strategic firing of skills, but i asume any class requires that.

Edit: switched from light to heavy armor, as the magicka bonuses on light armor where just overkill on a siphon mage breton

reggielee

this is a bit worrisome as I love my templar but shes nowhere near vet yet

Koensol

The way I see it:

Lots of people have made it far into the VR content, solo with their Templar. This mean it CAN be done and that it just depends on player skill and the way your character is built. I hear so many people complaining about the VR being unbalanced and impossible to do with X class. Every fight just forces you to think it over and come up with a game plan. DPS facerolling is just not cutting it.

KenjiJU

Made it to VR3, DW Heavy Temp. Fully repaired gear and I'm to the point where I'm avoiding groups of 3 because they either destroy me up front or leave me near death.

I'm going to try that sun shield suggestion. Thanks.

sufy

KenjiJU wrote: »

Made it to VR3, DW Heavy Temp. Fully repaired gear and I'm to the point where I'm avoiding groups of 3 because they either destroy me up front or leave me near death.

I'm going to try that sun shield suggestion. Thanks.

Hey mate, try switch to 1 hand and shield with some jewellery to either increase bash damage or reduce bash stam and block stam use, I just run in bash one to almost death then use vamp drain and an oh no heal if i need it. Its so easy i even slotted other skill line skills so I could level more weapon skills up at once, but for hard fights you still need to slot some magic damage skills and utility skills to spread out your damage

Baphomet

Templar used to be in an excellent shape but then they nerferd restoring spirit too much and the class is suffering from it now. They're not bad, but of the 4 classes they are the ones who need a little luv the most.

FireCowCommando

The best way i have found to make my Templar effective in pve and pvp was through being a vampire. By life draining mobs to regenerate/heal/stun is the only way to get enough resources to finish killing large boss mobs and groups of mobs.

Using the vampire ult to leach life while spamming biting jabs lets you survive long enough to put in the damage, then you burst them down using your stamina, followed by the life drain. This combo lets you solo vet public group dungeons without much difficulty as a templar

sommazzatoreb14_ESO

I do use Blazing Shield and I will continue to work with as many options as I can to restore the class. Again, nothing has been really suggested that I haven't tried, except the duel wield option, I guess I'll try that next.
Keep this conversation going though, I appreciate the insight regardless of if I've tried it or not.

(rerolled again after getting the DK to 31 and am playing an NB and see no issue with this class either)

Islyn

LOL! Tell that to my VR6 Mara partner Templar who can wipe the floor with - well - everything.

Shimizu

Having levelled two templars now (with some skill resets as well), with the second templar being a breton light-armor wearer to maximize magicka capabilities, I still find that in terms of both damage output and survivability the class is inferior. There are only a handful of active skills that are useful to invest points in. Many of the passives are only of minor use and many can be ignored entirely as they only apply to specific skills that you'd never use. For example spending two skill points to increase the duration of a skill from 4 seconds to 4.4 seconds. Just seems unnecessary.

Things like backlash and blinding light would be of situational use if it wasn't for the skillbar limit.

The bottom line is that magicka is so precious I wouldn't use it on something that isnt going to get something dead, knock it back, or heal.

We have some good group skills I suppose, but nothing that you can't more or less simulate with a resto staff.

Morlach

the resource cost of Templar's abilities need to be reduced by 25-30%.

hennessynights_ESO

My Templar is very strong solo or for group healer, but I have noticed in VR especially in the PvP, they need to adjust heals or magicka cost on heals, there is just too much damage happening from VR mobs in PvE, and werewolves and vampires in PvP. I also agree that the area of effect for Rune Focus needs to be increased giving the amount of movement required in combat. It also seems the Templars skills for combat are focused more around mob control than damage. I am sure they are still balancing all classes, it's a never ending battle.

CaptainSilverbrow

Lenthas wrote: »

Templars just have huge mana problems, even if you ignore your class signature, support healing, you will still run into mana issues, you are forced to take them from other tree's, but that is still not enough.

It's funny, because I'd been saying that for months prior to release and was treated to some derisive castigation at the time, and the usual "it's beta, you's gais! U just isn't leveled, endgame wull bah duff'rent!" tripe. But issues actually growing progressively worse? My, who'd have thought that could happen!

wootuz

VR3 Templar and haven't had any issues soloing 3 Packs or 6 Packs. I run 5 Heavy, 2 Light with 2hander. All stat points into Health. Item stats are Magicka, Rings / Amulet are Magicka Regen.

Explosive Charge, Brawler, Jitting Jibs spam, Execute Low Health Mobs. Have decent blue gear. You are VR rank so your levels last a bit longer, its worth investing in good armor and weapons. Also, i run with +Magicka and Stam food. provisioning is too easy to level.


Here are my stats. http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag401/Wootuz/Screenshot_20140429_232551Temp_zps165e14a8.png?t=1398833380

Decimus_Rex

AKSb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Haha, funny. xD
If Templar is underpowered, what is Nightblade then with all the buggy skills?

Thanks man I had to giggle at your comment

I have a temp

.... AWESOME....

I have a NightBlade

....Very sad panda....

Dying is an Art form and NB has it down pat

Ravinsild

wootuz wrote: »

VR3 Templar and haven't had any issues soloing 3 Packs or 6 Packs. I run 5 Heavy, 2 Light with 2hander. All stat points into Health. Item stats are Magicka, Rings / Amulet are Magicka Regen.

Explosive Charge, Brawler, Jitting Jibs spam, Execute Low Health Mobs. Have decent blue gear. You are VR rank so your levels last a bit longer, its worth investing in good armor and weapons. Also, i run with +Magicka and Stam food. provisioning is too easy to level.


Here are my stats. http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag401/Wootuz/Screenshot_20140429_232551Temp_zps165e14a8.png?t=1398833380

What are those orange stats to the right of the white stats?

I don't understand how you have such massive stats compared to my VR4 Templar in all VR4 green gear with a blue quality weapon.

wootuz

Thats the Softcap for the stat. It's an Addon that lets me see how close or far away I am from a soft cap.

sommazzatoreb14_ESO

anneb16_ESO3 wrote: »

LOL! Tell that to my VR6 Mara partner Templar who can wipe the floor with - well - everything.

Exactly... your mara partner. He can't wipe the floor SOLO.

SuperScrubby

That's a pretty cool add on. I've been looking for something like that. Found it here:

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info141-SoftcapInfo.html

LadyChaos

My only notice on Templar is the magicka management. My husband seems to be OOM sooooo much it boggles me.