How would you characterize the inventory system in ESO?

Glurin

More than adequate, better than most...few if any changes are needed...

I selected above average because I somewhat prefer the "list" presentation over the icon jigsaw puzzle we've had to deal with for a decade or more. Some room for improvement of course, but still good.

I also like that we ultimately have more space available than is normally given in MMOs. What people seem to be having trouble with is the fact that the bag space is what limits us in our character's professions rather than simply being limited to two or three professions. (Although technically there is enough space available to store a stack of almost every crafting mat in the game on one single character.) Thus when you try to do all professions at once, your storage is going to constantly be full. No, you don't need a crafting bag where all crafting mats disappear into an endless void and magically come forth whenever you need them. You just need to stop picking up every shiny rock, pointy stick and used pantaloons you come across. Yes, you will need to do some house cleaning every now and then. You had to do it in every other MMO, you can do it here too.

As for the shared bank, other MMOs generally give you smaller individual banks, which you use mule characters with and mail items back and forth, switching characters over and over to swap items in and out of the bank, etc. ESO removed the middle man. Anything multiple characters are using can conveniently be stored in the bank where they can all access it, rather than having to mail these shared resources back and forth and trying to keep straight who has what and how many.

People just need to adjust their mode of thinking a little bit. Not a lot. ESO didn't exactly reinvent the wheel here. A couple notches would do. Maybe break out the WD-40 since the knob might be a little rusted in place having spent so long in clones of the same overall system.

Gillysan

More than adequate, better than most...few if any changes are needed...

This is no longer a discussion and I have reported it as such.

Dyvim

Among the worst in an MMO of this size/budget/price - ever. Missing critical features given loot/mat centric nature of the game. Source of serious frustration and a potential contributor to loss of subscribers.

Yeah, troll(s) have an interest in shutting down the debate and feedback...but we have the poll with over two hundred votes now, and those results speak for themselves. Zeni can do better.

SuperScrubby

Low side of the curve. Worse than average, missing some real QoL features that should be standard...Will do nothing to keep or attract players to the game.

A bit interesting in how people comprehended my post. Being called out for lack of reading comprehension when those accusing me fail themselves is well... a bit ironic.

In my post I never said that having no inventory system upset the balance of the game. It was that a bad inventory system didn't affect the balance. A good one wouldn't either. Your character development can still progress fairly smoothly with the current inventory system. You are able to quest, deconstruct, craft, pvp, etc. The inventory system doesn't stop you from doing any of that. It may hinder you, but it affects everyone, and since everyone is affected balance is kept the same. No one individual or group of people are at an advantage since the inventory system is universally the same for everyone.

If you can't understand that concept then there's sadly nothing I can do for you. The bathroom example I gave is given in multiple management textbooks and it discusses employee morale. You can easily replace employee morale with player morale as well as the bathroom with the inventory system. Not a hard swap for most people....

"• Clean buildings increase employee morale and productivity and decrease absenteeism and turnover. No one wants to work in a dirty building. If your bathrooms and other shared areas aren’t clean, your staff may be less inclined to come to work—temporarily or permanently. Why does this matter? Because regardless of whether you pay them or not, the work still needs to get done. Whether that means overtime for another employee, hiring a temporary employee, or searching for someone new to fill the position, the result is extra expenses that could have been avoided."

http://www.3aclean.com/whycleanmatters.html

So let me bring this back around for whoever is still confused with my position and lacks basic reading comprehension.

Having a bad inventory system does cause strife as we've seen in this thread. However while it does produce conflict the amount of people willing to quit this game over that? Miniscule. People are more willing to quit this game due to the billing fiasco, bots, hackers, PvP issues, bugs, bugs, more bugs, and some other issues. Each individual weighs everything differently, but I can assure you from playing other games that a poor inventory system may detract from someone's level of enjoyment but it is rarely the sole reason for someone quitting the game. It's usually some combination of what I listed that causes the camel's back to break. Whether you place all the emphasis on 1 rather than the other, they all play a factor.

But would you quit your job if it was a well paying job because of a dirty bathroom? No, you'd complain and then deal with it until it was fixed, or learn to adapt and find a solution yourself.

Sadly this is a big wall of text since I had to dumb things down for certain individuals and I'll leave this thread with this post due to the rage of e-nerds with regards to the inventory system.

ClaudiaMay

About average. Decent features and implementation, nothing special in the genre...

Average, but not in a bad way. I've always been a hoarder, so it isn't unusual for me to have alts that hold my stuff lol. In fact I dumped all my provisioning materials temporarily on an alt I'm not going to play yet and "WOOP" space!

It certainly isn't the best system out there, but it certainly isn't the worst and it's completely manageable.

Varivox9

Among the worst in an MMO of this size/budget/price - ever. Missing critical features given loot/mat centric nature of the game. Source of serious frustration and a potential contributor to loss of subscribers.

It's just such a pain to find anything. There are so many mats and so little space that half the time, it's not worth picking up runes/provisioning supplies. As an alchemist, while making pots, I have to hunt and peck to find the right combination of ingredients.

Inventory and the guild system both need an overhall imo

Dyvim

Among the worst in an MMO of this size/budget/price - ever. Missing critical features given loot/mat centric nature of the game. Source of serious frustration and a potential contributor to loss of subscribers.

@SuperScrubby, good post, I would add one thing, though...I would say that it does affect playstyles differently, thus it does have a varying impact on different players. Easiest example...If you aren't an altaholic, and only have one toon, which you do little (or no) crafting on, you will not feel the same "friction" as someone with 8 alts that is engaged in each crafting profession...one big reason for this is that you get the SAME bank space whether you have 1 alt or 8 alts...and there are various stacking issues.

So I would say no, depending on how you play the game, the QoL issues will indeed have a different level of impact on you. The system is not universally the same for everyone, in effect, because it impacts you much differently based on your interest/proclivity for crafting and for alts.

To carry on your bathroom analogy...a dirty bathroom will not bother someone that doesn't use it as much as it will someone that has some kind of health issues and has to use it frequently...so based on your frequency or degree of use, the impact on you based on your exposure to the problem, will indeed vary.

Taurus498

And industry leader...best of the best, will help keep and attract players with its features...

I ended up voting “An industry leader” because I could see at first glance that this was a bias poll, and I really dislike bias polls, as they are often used to try and "prove" the pollsters opinion on their specific issue that they are championing.

And that's because the choices are far too general in that they cover the entire “Inventory System” in the game. Of course people will have issues with certain parts of the Inventory System. For example there will be a few that think that there is TOO MUCH Inventory Space in this game and might choose “Among the worse” or “Low side of the curve” for this reason. I myself think that certain parts of “Inventory System” really are “best of the best”, like having a Shared Bank, which makes Crafting FAR more easier. But other parts of it are lacking, like not being able to Preview gear on your character.

But as far as I can see from the Ops posts, is that he is mostly frustrated with the limited Inventory Space, and that is what he should have focused on, and should have created a simple poll where you had two choices:

1) I believe this games Inventory Space is Sufficient.

2) I believe this games Inventory Space is Insufficient.

I think that the vast majority of us believe that things like Treasure Maps, Pets and Trophies should not take up space, similar to the way Quest Items don’t take up space. And that identical Glyphs should also stack. These here are some things that we as a community could ALL rally behind, and probably get the Devs to change.

But something like increasing Bank and Bag Space would have a very large impact on many aspects of the game, especially the games economy as the need to upgrade these is one of the most important Gold Sinks in this game, this is what the Devs mean by “Friction”. And if the Devs took that need away then they would have to increase Gold Sinks elsewhere, for example Repairs, COD and Guild Cut prices would most likely be increased. This would probably annoy far more players than those of us that are frustrated with the limited Inventory Space. Also it really wouldn't be an Elder Scroll game if there wasn't tons of loot to choose from to hoard, as that has always been The Elder Scroll and most RPG games experiences, where the player is forced to make hard decisions on what to keep and what to drop.

Don’t get me wrong OP, I totally understand your completely valid frustration, as I was in the same boat as you a few days ago, and I was raging on this forum about it as I was also having an extremely frustrating time with the limited Bank Space. That’s because I am playing 8 alts that are doing all the crafts between them, which meant that I was collecting all the Crafting Materials and storing them in my shared Bank. But that is not possible in this game, as there are around 289 Crafting Materials. This meant that I was spending far too much time trying to make room in my Bank for all my Crafting Materials. So this encouraged me to come up with a system on how to still Craft with every character, and I eventually figured it out with helpful tips from other players and Addons.

For those that want to see how I and others efficiently manage your Crafting Materials then have a look at this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/85960/bank-space-management-tips

The key thing is not to loot Provisioning Ingredients while out adventuring, as it’s far more efficient to just do this in town.

Personally I think the default Bag Space is totally fine, but the default Bank Space should be 100. Mostly for those players that have just started playing the game and don’t understand what items they should actually be storing. This will give them a bit more time to figure out the Crafting Systems and what items are important enough to hoard. And then to upgrade to another 10 Bank Space should cost 20,000 gold and double the price for each upgrade after that.

lichmeister

Among the worst in an MMO of this size/budget/price - ever. Missing critical features given loot/mat centric nature of the game. Source of serious frustration and a potential contributor to loss of subscribers.

i really wanted to vote something other than i did!
now that ZOS has reimbursed me for my missing vaults space and items i have been able to upgrade it slightly; the constant material shuffle is not as bad yet it is still a FoL with ESO.
i suspect (read:hope) that as soon as they add player housing, this will all be a moot point.

Laerian

Among the worst in an MMO of this size/budget/price - ever. Missing critical features given loot/mat centric nature of the game. Source of serious frustration and a potential contributor to loss of subscribers.

Speaking about wrong vocal minorities, this poll is the best example...

Brennan

More than adequate, better than most...few if any changes are needed...

Taurus498 wrote: »

I ended up voting “An industry leader” because I could see at first glance that this was a bias poll, and I really dislike bias polls, as they are often used to try and "prove" the pollsters opinion on their specific issue that they are championing.

And that's because the choices are far too general in that they cover the entire “Inventory System” in the game. Of course people will have issues with certain parts of the Inventory System. For example there will be a few that think that there is TOO MUCH Inventory Space in this game and might choose “Among the worse” or “Low side of the curve” for this reason. I myself think that certain parts of “Inventory System” really are “best of the best”, like having a Shared Bank, which makes Crafting FAR more easier. But other parts of it are lacking, like not being able to Preview gear on your character.

But as far as I can see from the Ops posts, is that he is mostly frustrated with the limited Inventory Space, and that is what he should have focused on, and should have created a simple poll where you had two choices:

1) I believe this games Inventory Space is Sufficient.

2) I believe this games Inventory Space is Insufficient.

I think that the vast majority of us believe that things like Treasure Maps, Pets and Trophies should not take up space, similar to the way Quest Items don’t take up space. And that identical Glyphs should also stack. These here are some things that we as a community could ALL rally behind, and probably get the Devs to change.

But something like increasing Bank and Bag Space would have a very large impact on many aspects of the game, especially the games economy as the need to upgrade these is one of the most important Gold Sinks in this game, this is what the Devs mean by “Friction”. And if the Devs took that need away then they would have to increase Gold Sinks elsewhere, for example Repairs, COD and Guild Cut prices would most likely be increased. This would probably annoy far more players than those of us that are frustrated with the limited Inventory Space. Also it really wouldn't be an Elder Scroll game if there wasn't tons of loot to choose from to hoard, as that has always been The Elder Scroll and most RPG games experiences, where the player is forced to make hard decisions on what to keep and what to drop.

Don’t get me wrong OP, I totally understand your completely valid frustration, as I was in the same boat as you a few days ago, and I was raging on this forum about it as I was also having an extremely frustrating time with the limited Bank Space. That’s because I am playing 8 alts that are doing all the crafts between them, which meant that I was collecting all the Crafting Materials and storing them in my shared Bank. But that is not possible in this game, as there are around 289 Crafting Materials. This meant that I was spending far too much time trying to make room in my Bank for all my Crafting Materials. So this encouraged me to come up with a system on how to still Craft with every character, and I eventually figured it out with helpful tips from other players and Addons.

For those that want to see how I and others efficiently manage your Crafting Materials then have a look at this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/85960/bank-space-management-tips

The key thing is not to loot Provisioning Ingredients while out adventuring, as it’s far more efficient to just do this in town.

Personally I think the default Bag Space is totally fine, but the default Bank Space should be 100. Mostly for those players that have just started playing the game and don’t understand what items they should actually be storing. This will give them a bit more time to figure out the Crafting Systems and what items are important enough to hoard. And then to upgrade to another 10 Bank Space should cost 20,000 gold and double the price for each upgrade after that.

@Taurus498‌ This is a great post. The problem is that the OP and many like him aren't interested in adapting to the game. He doesn't think he should have to.

One player, I believe it was @Catches_the_Sun‌, used to think the inventory was insufficient. But after reading more of the advice from his/her peers regarding how to keep inventory managed, changed his/her mind on the issue.

The thing is that some people get it and others just continue to impotently pound their fist on the table like a child.

LadyInTheWater

More than adequate, better than most...few if any changes are needed...

Brennan wrote: »

@Taurus498‌ This is a great post. The problem is that the OP and many like him aren't interested in adapting to the game. He doesn't think he should have to.

One player, I believe it was @Catches_the_Sun‌, used to think the inventory was insufficient. But after reading more of the advice from his/her peers regarding how to keep inventory managed, changed his/her mind on the issue.

The thing is that some people get it and others just continue to impotently pound their fist on the table like a child.

I think the biggest contributing factor to their lack of adaptation is that they fail to see that an inventory adjustment/increase creates the potential for drastic abuse. Either that, or they're people who are intent on abusing the system, and are vying for that opportunity.

I would like to believe that they simply lack foresight, and a bit of explanation and discussion would enlighten them. But if past posts/comments have shown anything, it's that these players are most likely upset that they're unable to abuse the economy to the extent that they wish. Regardless of what has been said to them, they will only be happy if they have nearly endless space. That way they can farm nearly every crafting material or loot drop they can find, hoard as much as possible, buy out as much stuff as they can on their "global AH", and then repost it all at ridiculous prices, so they can dominate the economy.

In my very humble opinion, I think their real problem is that the current inventory/guild store setup gives them massive amounts of market competition. This competitive environment will keep the economy balanced and in check, and if there's anything that a greedy person hates, it's a balanced economic environment.

Taurus498

And industry leader...best of the best, will help keep and attract players with its features...

Brennan wrote: »

@Taurus498‌ This is a great post. The problem is that the OP and many like him aren't interested in adapting to the game. He doesn't think he should have to.

One player, I believe it was @Catches_the_Sun‌, used to think the inventory was insufficient. But after reading more of the advice from his/her peers regarding how to keep inventory managed, changed his/her mind on the issue.

The thing is that some people get it and others just continue to impotently pound their fist on the table like a child.

Thanks. But you have to admit that it’s understandable why many people are reluctant to adapt to the game, as it’s far more easier to vent your frustration here on the forum than adapt, as it took me a lot of research to figure out an Inventory System that works for me. And there are many issues with the current Inventory system that could be made more streamlined and user friendly, so that we don’t have to spend so much time fiddling around with it.

All of those people that are having a frustrating time with the Inventory System, really should also be asking and looking for ways to make their Inventory System experience more efficient. As it really is not fun spending a large amount of time tediously managing your inventories.

That’s why I created a thread with my own findings on efficient Inventory Management, and hopefully those of other people as well. So that those that are having a difficult time have much more easy access on ways to Manage their Inventory more efficiently, so that they can spend less time on this forum and more time in the game adventuring.

Catches_the_Sun

More than adequate, better than most...few if any changes are needed...

Brennan wrote: »

One player, I believe it was @Catches_the_Sun‌, used to think the inventory was insufficient. But after reading more of the advice from his/her peers regarding how to keep inventory managed, changed his/her mind on the issue.

The thing is that some people get it and others just continue to impotently pound their fist on the table like a child.

Good memory. Yeah, I was on here banging the drum begging for more inventory space during Early Access. Now that I've learned to manage my provisioning ingredients, I have no issues. At 50 Provisioner & 44 Blacksmith carrying 18 pieces of gear waiting to be researched, I still go adventuring with 40-50 empty slots.

BTW, my wife, who is not a forum reader, reminded me that we spent at least as much time managing inventory in GW2. It really doesn't matter how much space you have, you'll always think you need more. I wouldn't want ESO's system to change.

Dyvim

Among the worst in an MMO of this size/budget/price - ever. Missing critical features given loot/mat centric nature of the game. Source of serious frustration and a potential contributor to loss of subscribers.

Taurus498 wrote: »

...
But something like increasing Bank and Bag Space would have a very large impact on many aspects of the game, especially the games economy as the need to upgrade these is one of the most important Gold Sinks in this game, this is what the Devs mean by “Friction”. And if the Devs took that need away then they would have to increase Gold Sinks elsewhere, for example Repairs, COD and Guild Cut prices would most likely be increased. This would probably annoy far more players than those of us that are frustrated with the limited Inventory Space. Also it really wouldn't be an Elder Scroll game if there wasn't tons of loot to choose from to hoard, as that has always been The Elder Scroll and most RPG games experiences, where the player is forced to make hard decisions on what to keep and what to drop.

Don’t get me wrong OP, I totally understand your completely valid frustration, as I was in the same boat as you a few days ago, and I was raging on this forum about it as I was also having an extremely frustrating time with the limited Bank Space. That’s because I am playing 8 alts that are doing all the crafts between them, which meant that I was collecting all the Crafting Materials and storing them in my shared Bank. But that is not possible in this game, as there are around 289 Crafting Materials. This meant that I was spending far too much time trying to make room in my Bank for all my Crafting Materials. So this encouraged me to come up with a system on how to still Craft with every character, and I eventually figured it out with helpful tips from other players and Addons.

For those that want to see how I and others efficiently manage your Crafting Materials then have a look at this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/85960/bank-space-management-tips

The key thing is not to loot Provisioning Ingredients while out adventuring, as it’s far more efficient to just do this in town.

...

We could have a discussion about bias I guess, but as someone who has played a lot of MMOs, I felt offering a poll that allowed people, many of which who have also played a lot of MMOs, to voice where they thought this one's inventory features fell on a continuum would be useful. Each choice has 3-4 series of descriptors, and the positive ones are pretty positive. So if you feel the choices are biased, I could come up with a hella lot worse examples. Mentioning quitting in the title is a way to get immediate emotions started. SO I think the title of the poll is neutral, and I think the positive choices are as positive as the corresponding negative ones are negative...but meh, whatever.

Another reason I don't want a simple 2 choice poll is because it is inherently more limited, and I wanted people to be able to look at the system as a whole, not just its space number...for some playstyles, space is not an issue, but other missing features may be...and with well over 200 votes we can clearly see what anyone with any MMO experience already new...the inventory system in this game is not gonna win any trophies and will NOT be listed as one of the games innovations or strong points...the player feedback clearly shows that this thing is heavy on the low end. If I was zeni, I would pay attention to that....we will see what changes are made.

Yeah, I read your other thread, thanks, but nothing really new there from the nightly discussions my guild has about work arounds to the system. I am already doing most of them and have most of those add ons...the skyshard and lorebook add ons, while not directly crafting related (more skill points help), are excellent as well... the other thing that many people use is wykkyds mail bounce...so that people with several alts, like me and you, can park the ones they aren't leveling near a crafting station...then as the alt you are leveling loots decon items, you can easily get them out of your inventory and back to those crafting toons parked at crafting stations...this is incredibly handy, and is basically like having a portable vendor and crafting station, which I hope they add as many games do, at some point.

Contrary to what some (one) clueless noob(s), who want to pound their chests and claim some measure of greatness because they are willing to accept mediocrity or worse as a paying customer, falsely claim, of course many people that are not happy with the current system are using the addons and are changing the game to improve it, thanks to the addon community. What makes more sense than using what is available to change and improve on what you don't like and what can be made better - well one thing does, communicating your dissatisfaction along with ideas for improvement as a paying customer to the business that wants you to keep giving them money...

But here are a few things you can probably agree to:

1) The number of addons people are using, and feel are really MUST HAVES to manage the system, is a wakeup call and a solid indicator that the baseline really is lacking. If it wasn't, it wouldn't need such a high number of mods to ameliorate its suxiness - the average troll in this thread cant even count that high. Players are finding ways to compensate for the system's shortcomings, and there are many of them, hence the need for many addons...this is not a good reflection on the developers responsible for those shortcomings.

2) Having the same bank size for 1 alt or 8 alts is just unacceptable. This clearly impacts altaholics more severely and those that want to tackle all the crafting profs with them. I call it the "alt penalty". Why not allow people with alts to purchase more shared space, or mail to their alts directly?

3) You speak of gold sinks...why not have a crafting tab, shared, for purchase, expandable for more gold of course...this game has no real economy. No AH. Limited uses for gold anyway. This would alleviate the alt penalty.

LadyInTheWater

More than adequate, better than most...few if any changes are needed...

Dyvim wrote: »

1) The number of addons people are using, and feel are really MUST HAVES to manage the system, is a wakeup call and a solid indicator that the baseline really is lacking. If it wasn't, it wouldn't need such a high number of mods to ameliorate its suxiness - the average troll in this thread cant even count that high. Players are finding ways to compensate for the system's shortcomings, and there are many of them, hence the need for many addons...this is not a good reflection on the developers responsible for those shortcomings.

Every single MMO that allows modding has a small portion of players who consider a ton of addons to be "must haves". But that doesn't make them a necessity. I'm still running without any addons, and most likely never will. If a "clueless noob" like me can survive without them, then I'm sure some pro-gamer like yourself might be able to handle it, right?

2) Having the same bank size for 1 alt or 8 alts is just unacceptable. This clearly impacts altaholics more severely and those that want to tackle all the crafting profs with them. I call it the "alt penalty". Why not allow people with alts to purchase more shared space, or mail to their alts directly?

I'd be comfortable with the devs getting rid of the shared bank, and giving alts their own individual banks, but only if it cost gold-per-item to mail things between alts.[/quote]

3) You speak of gold sinks...why not have a crafting tab, shared, for purchase, expandable for more gold of course...this game has no real economy. No AH. Limited uses for gold anyway. This would alleviate the alt penalty.

You really aren't going to rest until you can hoard crafting mats, are you? At least grow a pair and admit it, instead of struggling to invent some pseudo-logical way of arguing your point.

Brennan

More than adequate, better than most...few if any changes are needed...

That's a good post @Dyvim‌, despite the references to whatever troll you're referring to. You'll find people at least somewhat more receptive to your criticisms and feedback if you're not typing in caps about Guild Wars 2 and berating anyone who disagrees with you.

To address your points about the need for add-ons, what do you have against 3rd party API developers? It's been said, in this thread even, that this wouldn't be a TES game if we weren't modding the hell out of it. You would see these individuals made obsolete without any useful and fun projects for them to work on?

And as far as your concerns about the shared bank and "altaholics". I am working on all 6 available crafting professions on one character and have 4 combat characters that I play around with. I am not having issues with the inventory. Do I have 2 mule characters? Yes - one for items that I still need to research and one that is hoarding trait gems and improvement materials. Do I need to occasionally move items through the shared bank to those alts? Yes. How else are they going to get them? How is it that I and others that have posted here are able to manage this "friction" and you're not?

Is it possible, however unlikely, that the problem is not the inventory system which many of us have learned to leverage just fine (granted others, including yourself, haven't) or is it more likely that the problem is the "system" that works for those willing to adapt to it, but doesn't for those that refuse to adapt to it?

Dyvim

Among the worst in an MMO of this size/budget/price - ever. Missing critical features given loot/mat centric nature of the game. Source of serious frustration and a potential contributor to loss of subscribers.

@LadyInTheWater

I'm done arguing with you guys, it is pointless. The poll numbers here say all that needs to be said. Argue with them.

Did you bother to read @Taurus498 thread? He has a long list of addons in it, almost as long as your list of dos and donts to compensate, and he credits those with making the inventory system manageable. My response, which was to him, was in that context. If you aren't even running the skyshard or minimap ones, gratz, why don't you just admit you are some gaming badass...lol.

Your assessment of my motives is fascinating, if not completely wrong. I have no desire to hoard to sell and capture some market or whatever. I have no Machiavellian agenda...lol. I just want to be able to loot, store it without hassle, and be able to come back to it when I need it, as I plan on experiencing all the crafting profs sooner or later. With a minimum of tedium and hassle, as I have experienced in other games. I do not feel the need to put up with more hassle from this game, or spend more time with inventory tetris. I do not enjoy it.

Also, you might want to get your money back for any economics class you ever took in college....your assertion that " their real problem is that the current inventory/guild store setup gives them massive amounts of market competition." is wildly puzzling, since most economists would tell you that smaller markets are less efficient or competitive, price wise, than larger ones. What they have delivered is a series of smaller markets...many many of them, instead of a few larger ones. I would love to hear your economic rationale for thinking that smaller markets are more effective at price controls and providing stable, rationale supply and demand curves.

LadyInTheWater

More than adequate, better than most...few if any changes are needed...

Brennan wrote: »

Do I have 2 mule characters? Yes - one for items that I still need to research and one that is hoarding trait gems and improvement materials.

Wow, I never even thought about doing that, since I don't have any alts.

I always tend to deconstruct potential research items, since I figure I'll always loot them later (and most often I find them again).

Perhaps I'll make an alt, and start mailing her items that I plan on researching in the future. Brilliant idea!

Dyvim

Among the worst in an MMO of this size/budget/price - ever. Missing critical features given loot/mat centric nature of the game. Source of serious frustration and a potential contributor to loss of subscribers.

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

Do I have 2 mule characters? Yes - one for items that I still need to research and one that is hoarding trait gems and improvement materials.

Wow, I never even thought about doing that, since I don't have any alts.

I always tend to deconstruct potential research items, since I figure I'll always loot them later (and most often I find them again).

Perhaps I'll make an alt, and start mailing her items that I plan on researching in the future. Brilliant idea!

You cant mail to your alts on the same acct, without an addon, and you said you don't use those...

LadyInTheWater

More than adequate, better than most...few if any changes are needed...

Dyvim wrote: »

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

Do I have 2 mule characters? Yes - one for items that I still need to research and one that is hoarding trait gems and improvement materials.

Wow, I never even thought about doing that, since I don't have any alts.

I always tend to deconstruct potential research items, since I figure I'll always loot them later (and most often I find them again).

Perhaps I'll make an alt, and start mailing her items that I plan on researching in the future. Brilliant idea!

You cant mail to your alts on the same acct, without an addon, and you said you don't use those...

Yeah, mis-typed that.

True, but I can drop items for her in the shared bank, and then pick them up later... since, you know, I don't have any issues managing my inventory =p

Dyvim

Among the worst in an MMO of this size/budget/price - ever. Missing critical features given loot/mat centric nature of the game. Source of serious frustration and a potential contributor to loss of subscribers.

Brennan wrote: »

...
To address your points about the need for add-ons, what do you have against 3rd party API developers? It's been said, in this thread even, that this wouldn't be a TES game if we weren't modding the hell out of it. You would see these individuals made obsolete without any useful and fun projects for them to work on?

... How is it that I and others that have posted here are able to manage this "friction" and you're not?

Is it possible, however unlikely, that the problem is not the inventory system which many of us have learned to leverage just fine (granted others, including yourself, haven't) or is it more likely that the problem is the "system" that works for those willing to adapt to it, but doesn't for those that refuse to adapt to it?

Again, you assume I am crippled or something by the system, I am not...I am using the addons, and I am using workarounds. Like almost EVERYONE has to because the underlying system is feature poor. How can you not look at the list of addons Taurus cites (a whopping 21 of them), or the number of playstyle adjusting workarounds that lady cites, and have it NOT occur to you that any system that requires players to move that far to meet it, instead of providing features to the customer, could be made hella better? Honest question.

I have nothing against addons, they make this game more playable. From minimaps, to combat addons, to all the inventory and crafting addons, without them, the game would be a much poorer experience. My point is, when you are downloading scores of them, and having players state that many of them are essential to make some system, like say inventory, manageable, at what point have you crossed the line of nice supplemental addition to bandaid or crutch for poor development and design??? I think we are there in this case.

Again, I am talking about ONE system, not the whole game. I don't like the whole "I quit" crap, because its stupid. That's where I am coming from...I have interest in this game and think parts of it are great. Parts are not, however, and seeking positive change for them, especially when, like it or not, they are VASTLY perceived as being lacking, is the way I choose to go. No MMO is perfect, ever, and especially not at launch. One of the attractive things about MMOs is the notion that they have a life cycle of years, and as players we can affect change in them through interaction with devs...who want us to make longterm commitments to their product.

Dyvim

Among the worst in an MMO of this size/budget/price - ever. Missing critical features given loot/mat centric nature of the game. Source of serious frustration and a potential contributor to loss of subscribers.

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

Do I have 2 mule characters? Yes - one for items that I still need to research and one that is hoarding trait gems and improvement materials.

Wow, I never even thought about doing that, since I don't have any alts.

I always tend to deconstruct potential research items, since I figure I'll always loot them later (and most often I find them again).

Perhaps I'll make an alt, and start mailing her items that I plan on researching in the future. Brilliant idea!

You cant mail to your alts on the same acct, without an addon, and you said you don't use those...

Yeah, mis-typed that.

True, but I can drop items for her in the shared bank, and then pick them up later... since, you know, I don't have any issues managing my inventory =p

touché

Taurus498

And industry leader...best of the best, will help keep and attract players with its features...

@Dyvim I didn’t mean to cause any offence with my dislike of your Poll. I just personally have issues in Polls in general, as most are worded in specific ways to achieve a certain outcome. I could actually have chosen a sixth option “All the above” in the poll, as each of your five choices would have applied for certain parts of the Inventory System. And as I pointed out, you have no idea if some of the votes could be for things totally opposite from what other people who voted for the same option voted for. Some people might vote that this games Inventory System “Is among the worst in an MMO” for having too much space for items, or they might vote “An industry leader” for having a Shared Bank like I did.

Thanks for the tip on using Wykkds Mail Bounce, I think I might have a play around with that one. And it’s good that you already know about most of the tips that make the managing of my Inventory much more efficient. But if you are still having a hard time managing your inventory, then let us know what exactly are the problems that you are struggling to overcome. I’m assuming you aren't hoarding Provision Ingredients? That you are using your Bank for only storing Crafting Materials that you are actively using? That you are storing Raw Materials on your characters? And you are spending most of your gold on upgrading your Bank?

I agree with you on your very constructive 1, 2 & 3 points. The main thing that I totally disagree with you on is that you think that this games Inventory System is “Among the worst in an MMO”. I think in general it’s really good, but that it would be nice if the Devs could make some changes to it to so that it’s more streamlined for us, without negatively affecting the balance of the game.

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

I'd be comfortable with the devs getting rid of the shared bank, and giving alts their own individual banks, but only if it cost gold-per-item to mail things between alts.

Man I would be extremely annoyed if the Devs got rid of the shared bank, as it’s absolutely brilliant and makes Crafting with multiple alts far more easy. I shudder at the thought of each of my characters having individual banks.

Dyvim

Among the worst in an MMO of this size/budget/price - ever. Missing critical features given loot/mat centric nature of the game. Source of serious frustration and a potential contributor to loss of subscribers.

The way to go is to have a bank for each alt, then a shared bank, then a shared crafting materials bank...that is the best system I have seen or played - and when you play it, going backwards in functionality isn't fun. Note, you could easily have plenty of friction, limitations, and gold sinks in such a system...nowhere am I saying they should have unlimited or even large stack sizes without more sinks, or whatever, but things damn well should stack when appropriate...

Dyvim

Among the worst in an MMO of this size/budget/price - ever. Missing critical features given loot/mat centric nature of the game. Source of serious frustration and a potential contributor to loss of subscribers.

@Taurus498...lol, you are using 21 addons to make something manageable, and you don't think the underlying system that requires all of those addons, isn't poor? Sure, you can make town runs...is running around the same place you have seen a dozen times, a non adventure zone, really the kind of triple A MMO quality game play you expect from this game, or have you settled with just being happy that you have found a workaround, yet ANOTHER one for the inventory friction???

Those addons aren't making your inventory crap rainbows for you...lol, they are providing pretty basic functionality...

Brennan

More than adequate, better than most...few if any changes are needed...

Dyvim wrote: »

I'm done arguing with you guys, it is pointless. The poll numbers here say all that needs to be said. Argue with them.

Did you bother to read @Taurus498 thread? He has a long list of addons in it, almost as long as your list of dos and donts to compensate, and he credits those with making the inventory system manageable. My response, which was to him, was in that context. If you aren't even running the skyshard or minimap ones, gratz, why don't you just admit you are some gaming badass...lol.

Yes I did. It was good stuff. I don't use add-ons. I like the minimalist UI, But managing inventory doesn't make someone a gaming badass. It is, however, indicative of someone who is capable and willing to evolve and adapt.

Your assessment of my motives is fascinating, if not completely wrong. I have no desire to hoard to sell and capture some market or whatever. I have no Machiavellian agenda...lol. I just want to be able to loot, store it without hassle, and be able to come back to it when I need it, as I plan on experiencing all the crafting profs sooner or later. With a minimum of tedium and hassle, as I have experienced in other games. I do not feel the need to put up with more hassle from this game, or spend more time with inventory tetris. I do not enjoy it.

Your agenda, at least from the other thread that you created, was motivated by wanting Zenimax to change their inventory to something similar, if not identical to GW2. You then questioned the character and intelligence of every dissenter to your opinion in an attempt to quash any disagreement. Here's a tip from one you claim is a gaming badass - not everyone is going to agree with you.

Zenimax has also given us the option to experience all crafts on a single character which is heretofore unheard of in modern MMOs but the lack of restriction here mandates restriction elsewhere - a restriction that while, at least for some, cumbersome is manageable.

I'm not posting here just to *** you off. I do not secretly agree with your assessment of the inventory and just post a contrary viewpoint to harass you. I post here because my opinion is that the inventory, while needing enhancements like text search and fixing the stupid guild bank no-stacking nonsense, is adequate, useful, and serves it's intended function. Adding an arbitrary magic bag just for crafting ingredients is unnecessary and serves only to circumvent a needed restriction to counter the option of leveling all crafting professions on a single character.

tl;dr - You can do everything you want to in this game but there will be challenges in doing all of them.

Dyvim

Among the worst in an MMO of this size/budget/price - ever. Missing critical features given loot/mat centric nature of the game. Source of serious frustration and a potential contributor to loss of subscribers.

lol @Brennan, my bad that whole response was to Lady...I would never call you a gaming badass

I used GW2 simply because it has an inventory system that many people are familiar with and is FAR more feature rich and capable than what this game offers...and you can do all the crafts on one toon in GW2, with two active at one time, but you can switch between them and it maintains your progress/level. So yeah, its two active at a time, but no skill point costs, etc. So that is not unprecedented, just a different flavor of something that has already been done. Since you said you didn't play GW2, you might want to hold off on the "heretofore unheard of..." line...GW2 had its problems, but few games had as many QoL features or showed as much design elegance in some systems. ESO has ALOT in common with GW2...a lot. More in common than dissimilar, probably, with a lot of features ESO just doesn't have...like structured PvP matches, in addition to realm v realm pvp. But again, I mentioned GW2 in relation to inventory functionality because a lot of people would be able to relate to it...not as some statement of desire to fundamentally morph the game into something else...

I could have just as easily said I would prefer a bank for each alt, then a shared bank, then a shared crafting materials bank. But that wouldnt fit into the thread title box, so I said it elsewhere, and it is intimated by referencing GW2. You can still have all kinds of limitations and friction in this system...but it brings a lot of nice QoL to the players.

Taurus498

And industry leader...best of the best, will help keep and attract players with its features...

Dyvim wrote: »

@Taurus498...lol, you are using 21 addons to make something manageable, and you don't think the underlying system that requires all of those addons, isn't poor? Sure, you can make town runs...is running around the same place you have seen a dozen times, a non adventure zone, really the kind of triple A MMO quality game play you expect from this game, or have you settled with just being happy that you have found a workaround, yet ANOTHER one for the inventory friction???

Those addons aren't making your inventory crap rainbows for you...lol, they are providing pretty basic functionality...

Yes the addons make the Inventory System more streamlined for me. But I could still manage without them, as I believe the Inventory System in general is sufficient.

The main reason people are having a frustrating time with their inventory is that there are tons of items in this game and the Crafting is more indepth than most other MMOs, both of these factors are huge positives to most of us.

It's only the managing of the large amount of items that is tricky, like figuring out what is worth keeping and what crafting materials are absolutely needed for your characters items that they are currently Crafting. If the Devs could give us more tools and maybe some more bank space it could help out a bit more, so that we don't have to spend so much time managing our inventories.

But even if the Devs totally agreed with you, that this games Inventory System is the among the worst and decided to give it an overhaul, it would take weeks to achieve as they would have to rebalance a large part of the game. So in the meantime we would still need to figure out ways to make inventory management more streamlined for ourselves until they changed it.

Dyvim

Among the worst in an MMO of this size/budget/price - ever. Missing critical features given loot/mat centric nature of the game. Source of serious frustration and a potential contributor to loss of subscribers.

@Taurus498...

weeks, probably months. I am not shy about using the addons and workarounds, but I am not going to ignore the reason I have to use them in the first place...and what is still missing...

Yes, this game created the perfect storm in an MMO that I haven't really seen before...massive numbers of crafting mats, tons of loot, plenty of alts and access to different crafting profs...and then BOOM, inventory that is "friction". Seriously, some MMO from 2002 could call and ask for its inventory system back...because there are no new or innovative ideas in this one...except the "shared" bank, which is also a head scratcher because it doesn't scale based on the number of alts you have...or have other mechanisms to account for alts - which is particularly painful, since the more alts you have, likely the more space you need, but at the same time, you cannot email to alts, so the only way to exchange items with your alts, without outside parties, is the shared bank, which is already tight and getting tighter...lol

You didn't respond to my question about what kind of experience do you expect from this triple A MMO that is charging customers with the most expensive price model in the industry? I am not expecting mediocrity from them in any part of this game...but that is what we have here, IMO. So I will ask you again, are town runs, where you are running around the same place you have seen a dozen times, a non adventure zone, really the kind of triple A MMO quality game play you expect from this game, or have you settled with just being happy that you have found a workaround, yet ANOTHER one for the inventory friction???