How would you characterize the inventory system in ESO?

Brennan

More than adequate, better than most...few if any changes are needed...

Dyvim wrote: »

lol, not to worry, there will be plenty of changes coming to this game, including in the inventory and crafting areas. Its a just released MMO, it will see a legion of change.

The really funny thing is that over the changing life of the game, I may well be subscribed to it longer than you, in the end. So make sure to send me your stuff when you leave first, by then they will probably have addressed many of the issues and added in the QoL features that are absent now. If I didn't give a flip about it, I wouldn't be spending my time here bringing attention to the issue, which is a nightly topic of discussion in my guild. So whatever. Keep the head in the sand. I just don't think that serves you well. My first thread and first post in these forums were about the inventory. I really haven't taken the time to comment on anything else in these forums...I doubt you can say the same. I have been playing the game.

Im not sure why you are spending time here. You have voted, registered your opinion, and have your own thread. You don't see me in it. Return the favor

So @Brennan, is that a yes to leaving me your stuff? lolz

This thread needs more walls of text. Have at it @Dyvim.

Inventory is not QoL. It is integral to the game's balance. If it were just QoL every game everywhere would just have infinite space. There is a reason inventory is limited both in this game and in others. Do you know what the reason is?

Catches_the_Sun

More than adequate, better than most...few if any changes are needed...

Wow, even the survey options are biased, with the OP obviously leaning more toward the bottom answer (see detailed write-up on bottom answer). There is nothing wrong with the inventory system here. The problem is that people are used to MMOs that designed to let you do everything, carry everything & be self-sufficient. ESO is not designed that way & I have no problem with it whatsoever.

Natjur

Anyone with a lot of Mules used this add-on

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info291-MulesManagement.html

It was like... WOW that saves me a ton of time!

Terminus

Low side of the curve. Worse than average, missing some real QoL features that should be standard...Will do nothing to keep or attract players to the game.

I think it's important to note that more than 55% of the community believes that the current inventory management system is "below par or average".

It doesn't matter if most of those people don't know how to manage their inventory, it's still the majority.

We need a search function, more organization and filtering for types of armor or weapons, sub-tabs to classify important items, etc.

Dyvim

Among the worst in an MMO of this size/budget/price - ever. Missing critical features given loot/mat centric nature of the game. Source of serious frustration and a potential contributor to loss of subscribers.

Brennan wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

lol, not to worry, there will be plenty of changes coming to this game, including in the inventory and crafting areas. Its a just released MMO, it will see a legion of change.

The really funny thing is that over the changing life of the game, I may well be subscribed to it longer than you, in the end. So make sure to send me your stuff when you leave first, by then they will probably have addressed many of the issues and added in the QoL features that are absent now. If I didn't give a flip about it, I wouldn't be spending my time here bringing attention to the issue, which is a nightly topic of discussion in my guild. So whatever. Keep the head in the sand. I just don't think that serves you well. My first thread and first post in these forums were about the inventory. I really haven't taken the time to comment on anything else in these forums...I doubt you can say the same. I have been playing the game.

Im not sure why you are spending time here. You have voted, registered your opinion, and have your own thread. You don't see me in it. Return the favor

So @Brennan, is that a yes to leaving me your stuff? lolz

This thread needs more walls of text. Have at it @Dyvim.

Inventory is not QoL. It is integral to the game's balance. If it were just QoL every game everywhere would just have infinite space. There is a reason inventory is limited both in this game and in others. Do you know what the reason is?

Or less silly posting, try to do better @Brennan...

Gee, now why would INFINITE space cause a problem...maybe because infinite space would cost developers an infinite amount of money to provide... It would blow up the database and the server storage requirements. Maybe you just didn't think about the word you were using, it happens for you a lot.

In most F2P games arbitrarily low caps are put in place to milk money out of players in cash shops. This game is already milking us for money, so apparently the devs feel they need friction, or a way to limit players artificially. Problem is, inventory isnt just about crafting, it is also about other types of loot. So when you combine poor stacking functionality with poor inventory functionality (e.g., 1 toon gets as much shared storage as 8 toons do), you get a royal cluster. They also came up with incomprehensibly lame excuse for not providing an AH. I personally believe that they ran out of time and technical ability to provide a better feature set before their launch date.

Brennan

More than adequate, better than most...few if any changes are needed...

Dyvim wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

lol, not to worry, there will be plenty of changes coming to this game, including in the inventory and crafting areas. Its a just released MMO, it will see a legion of change.

The really funny thing is that over the changing life of the game, I may well be subscribed to it longer than you, in the end. So make sure to send me your stuff when you leave first, by then they will probably have addressed many of the issues and added in the QoL features that are absent now. If I didn't give a flip about it, I wouldn't be spending my time here bringing attention to the issue, which is a nightly topic of discussion in my guild. So whatever. Keep the head in the sand. I just don't think that serves you well. My first thread and first post in these forums were about the inventory. I really haven't taken the time to comment on anything else in these forums...I doubt you can say the same. I have been playing the game.

Im not sure why you are spending time here. You have voted, registered your opinion, and have your own thread. You don't see me in it. Return the favor

So @Brennan, is that a yes to leaving me your stuff? lolz

This thread needs more walls of text. Have at it @Dyvim.

Inventory is not QoL. It is integral to the game's balance. If it were just QoL every game everywhere would just have infinite space. There is a reason inventory is limited both in this game and in others. Do you know what the reason is?

Or less silly posting, try to do better @Brennan...

Gee, now why would INFINITE space cause a problem...maybe because infinite space would cost developers an infinite amount of money to provide... It would blow up the database and the server storage requirements. Maybe you just didn't think about the word you were using, it happens for you a lot.

How much do you suppose it costs CCP to have virtually an infinite number of items in a station hangar without "blowing up" the database and the server storage requirements?

In most F2P games arbitrarily low caps are put in place to milk money out of players in cash shops. This game is already milking us for money, so apparently the devs feel they need friction, or a way to limit players artificially. Problem is, inventory isnt just about crafting, it is also about other types of loot. So when you combine poor stacking functionality with poor inventory functionality (e.g., 1 toon gets as much shared storage as 8 toons do), you get a royal cluster. They also came up with incomprehensibly lame excuse for not providing an AH. I personally believe that they ran out of time and technical ability to provide a better feature set before their launch date.

Thanks for sharing your opinions. They aren't really awe-inspiring but I appreciate your courage in sharing them.

Gillysan

More than adequate, better than most...few if any changes are needed...

Current & present solutions you can go and click on and have working immediately have been presented yet all some of you want to do is keep whining instead of tackling the problem. Add-on's, spreadsheets, web tools. There has even been some philosophy thrown around and my one good cartoon that spells it out. I'll just leave this one link for the second time and you guys can go figure it out or wallow in misery. This is your choice and yours only.
http://minion.mmoui.com/

Brennan

More than adequate, better than most...few if any changes are needed...

Gillysan wrote: »

Current & present solutions you can go and click on and have working immediately have been presented yet all some of you want to do is keep whining instead of tackling the problem. Add-on's, spreadsheets, web tools. There has even been some philosophy thrown around and my one good cartoon that spells it out. I'll just leave this one link for the second time and you guys can go figure it out or wallow in misery. This is your choice and yours only.
http://minion.mmoui.com/

Aces @Gillysan, Aces.

Opioid

About average. Decent features and implementation, nothing special in the genre...

Terminus wrote: »

I think it's important to note that more than 55% of the community believes that the current inventory management system is "below par or average".

55% of the people that bothered replying to this thread is not indicative of the opinions of 55% of the entire community.

It's not important to pay attention to a biased poll where the most likely participants are those that want the inventory management of the game to change and be more similar to other games.

Salsadoom

About average. Decent features and implementation, nothing special in the genre...

I think the space is fine for 1 character or if you don't play crafters or you don't mind sharing.

Since I don't do any of those 3 it's an issue.

All my characters are crafters and I don't want them sharing items. Which pretty much leaves me having to only play one character at a time then having to delete the bank.

Uhm..yea!

Overall I think ESO is great and will just get better

Dyvim

Among the worst in an MMO of this size/budget/price - ever. Missing critical features given loot/mat centric nature of the game. Source of serious frustration and a potential contributor to loss of subscribers.

Gillysan wrote: »

Current & present solutions you can go and click on and have working immediately have been presented yet all some of you want to do is keep whining instead of tackling the problem. Add-on's, spreadsheets, web tools. There has even been some philosophy thrown around and my one good cartoon that spells it out. I'll just leave this one link for the second time and you guys can go figure it out or wallow in misery. This is your choice and yours only.
http://minion.mmoui.com/

Yeah minion is great...most people in my guild use it for their addon management, and I use many of those addons...the ones for provisioning, alchemy, research, etc. and they are good bandaids...but they are just that, bandaids. You can mail bounce and up your storage by around 250 with an addon as well. But personally I would be nervous about the integrity of the mail system for storage like that....

The need for these bandaids simply strengthens the case that the underlying systems are NOT getting it done for the playerbase, so they are having to use workarounds, addons, etc. Thanks for pointing out the deficiencies and the need to compensate for them yet again. Once again the case for change is made by its opponents, ah the irony.

SuperScrubby

Low side of the curve. Worse than average, missing some real QoL features that should be standard...Will do nothing to keep or attract players to the game.

I don't think it will cause a loss of subscribers, nor do I feel that its a feature that upsets the balance of the game.

Things like inventory management/bank management are akin to a clean bathroom. You won't quit working for your company because your bathrooms aren't as clean as you want it. However having a dirty bathroom does lower employee morale, but on the flip side a clean bathroom has relatively no positive effect on employee morale.

So while a bad inventory system does hinder the game, a good one is something that nobody thinks twice about because it's just assumed to be a daily part of life and taken for granted. However we as early subscribers/guinea pigs will appreciate it when if they improve it. But people that come in afterwards aren't going to think twice about it, nor will they care.

Brennan

More than adequate, better than most...few if any changes are needed...

SuperScrubby wrote: »

I don't think it will cause a loss of subscribers, nor do I feel that its a feature that upsets the balance of the game.

Things like inventory management/bank management are akin to a clean bathroom. You won't quit working for your company because your bathrooms aren't as clean as you want it. However having a dirty bathroom does lower employee morale, but on the flip side a clean bathroom has relatively no positive effect on employee morale.

So while a bad inventory system does hinder the game, a good one is something that nobody thinks twice about because it's just assumed to be a daily part of life and taken for granted. However we as early subscribers/guinea pigs will appreciate it when if they improve it. But people that come in afterwards aren't going to think twice about it, nor will they care.

How balanced is a workplace without a bathroom? Inventory is integral to game balance.

ED: @Krym had posted some informative links about why an inventory system is integral to a game and it's development in another thread. I am leaving them here and would encourage you to read them.

Krym wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

Sorry, I almost fell out of my chair at this one...you list a GW2 "PROBLEM" as stack size limited to 250 in the JOINT crafting tab that could store 250 of every single mat in the game, which was accessible, for crafting, without having to go to a bank, to every toon on the account...and also, a huge QoL feature, you could deposit into the craft tab, directly FROM INVENTORY without having to go back to a bank in town...and you call that a PROBLEM??? If that is what you call a problem then the state that this game's inventory is in is a complete and total apocalyptic disaster of biblical proportions - and you are here trying to defend it???

Good grief, did you even read what you typed??? A "minigame" of constant, tedious inventory management is not appealing to many players, especially as other games have provided better systems, and players do NOT want to go back to more primitive conditions. This should surprise no one.

Between you and LadyintheLake you make arguments for change, inadvertently, that are just great and compelling. Keep it up.

I really begin to question your reading comprehension, or basic discussion skills in general.

in one post you complain the bank is shared thus less space across chars then you promote a bank with 250 item per stack with single stack slots (and that you could bank from every char has exactly what to do with the discussion about the amount of bank slots?). so you're saying because it's better in your opinion it has no problems whatsoever? oookay. you really should get that ignoring problem checked out.

your whole argument boils down to ZOS WHY U NO COPY THIS OR THAT FROM THAT GAME (completely ignoring everything else). what's next, flying mounts? hey, they ARE more appealing, players pay real money for them and as you said players want convenience above all else. win/win for everybody!

even more interesting is that you think the devs don't see that as well. either you managed to ignore that during your hissy fits or you actually think they're stupid.
if you really wan't to convince the devs you need some good arguments for them to spend the devtime and money on it (and no "waaah players quit!!" either, considering people quit for all kinds of reasons all the time, even for stuff the devs limited on purpose. which should tell you they're not creating a bland mess trying to appeal to as much people as possible *cough* unlike gw2 *cough* but have strict design goals and intentions).

it would also help to get a clue instead in incessantly hyping gw2's inventory AND ACTUALLY read what people post - because all this has already been discussed in other threads at length (yes, pls continue to make more threads about this topic, you might actually trick someone to think it's more important this way.).

some links that might help you:
http://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/articles/designing-an-rpg-inventory-system-that-fits-preliminary-steps--gamedev-14725
http://www.gamedev.net/topic/621945-mmo-inventory-discussion/
http://my.mmosite.com/2424376/blog/ritem/game_theory_inventing_the_inventory.html

with that I'm out, you don't really need me to make yourself look like fool.

Alypius

Low side of the curve. Worse than average, missing some real QoL features that should be standard...Will do nothing to keep or attract players to the game.

The core problem, IMAO, is that the complexity of the inventory system is poorly matched to that of the crafting system and it's this mismatch that leads to the gnashing of teeth by some players.

I would love to see a more robust management/store system that allows sorting and text searches (among other things). That ZOS didn't create one when they obviously spent so much time and effort in the crafting systems only makes the contrast that much more glaring. Addons are fine for customizing, but it shouldn't be a substitute for one of the game's core functions. This makes it look like the bags were just phoned in, possibly along with the background thought of, "Eh, the players will just mod the crap out of it, so don't put in too much effort".

And no, I don't seriously think that's what happened; given that a set of items is required to create one item, I think it more likely that the devs never intended for any one character to be a master of every crafting tree. They knew that players love their alts so crafting trees could be spread amongst them. Is this reverse-justification? Maybe. But I know that I would never be able to actually play the game if all my time was spent harvesting/banking/crafting. Focus on one or two trees and ignore the rest if you value your sanity.

Overall the system works okay for me; I still want an inventory database at least as robust as the crafting system.

Dyvim

Among the worst in an MMO of this size/budget/price - ever. Missing critical features given loot/mat centric nature of the game. Source of serious frustration and a potential contributor to loss of subscribers.

Brennan wrote: »

SuperScrubby wrote: »

I don't think it will cause a loss of subscribers, nor do I feel that its a feature that upsets the balance of the game.

Things like inventory management/bank management are akin to a clean bathroom. You won't quit working for your company because your bathrooms aren't as clean as you want it. However having a dirty bathroom does lower employee morale, but on the flip side a clean bathroom has relatively no positive effect on employee morale.

So while a bad inventory system does hinder the game, a good one is something that nobody thinks twice about because it's just assumed to be a daily part of life and taken for granted. However we as early subscribers/guinea pigs will appreciate it when if they improve it. But people that come in afterwards aren't going to think twice about it, nor will they care.

How balanced is a workplace without a bathroom? Inventory is integral to game balance.

ED: @Krym had posted some informative links about why an inventory system is integral to a game and it's development in another thread. I am leaving them here and would encourage you to read them.

Krym wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

Sorry, I almost fell out of my chair at this one...you list a GW2 "PROBLEM" as stack size limited to 250 in the JOINT crafting tab that could store 250 of every single mat in the game, which was accessible, for crafting, without having to go to a bank, to every toon on the account...and also, a huge QoL feature, you could deposit into the craft tab, directly FROM INVENTORY without having to go back to a bank in town...and you call that a PROBLEM??? If that is what you call a problem then the state that this game's inventory is in is a complete and total apocalyptic disaster of biblical proportions - and you are here trying to defend it???

Good grief, did you even read what you typed??? A "minigame" of constant, tedious inventory management is not appealing to many players, especially as other games have provided better systems, and players do NOT want to go back to more primitive conditions. This should surprise no one.

Between you and LadyintheLake you make arguments for change, inadvertently, that are just great and compelling. Keep it up.

I really begin to question your reading comprehension, or basic discussion skills in general.

in one post you complain the bank is shared thus less space across chars then you promote a bank with 250 item per stack with single stack slots (and that you could bank from every char has exactly what to do with the discussion about the amount of bank slots?). so you're saying because it's better in your opinion it has no problems whatsoever? oookay. you really should get that ignoring problem checked out.

your whole argument boils down to ZOS WHY U NO COPY THIS OR THAT FROM THAT GAME (completely ignoring everything else). what's next, flying mounts? hey, they ARE more appealing, players pay real money for them and as you said players want convenience above all else. win/win for everybody!

even more interesting is that you think the devs don't see that as well. either you managed to ignore that during your hissy fits or you actually think they're stupid.
if you really wan't to convince the devs you need some good arguments for them to spend the devtime and money on it (and no "waaah players quit!!" either, considering people quit for all kinds of reasons all the time, even for stuff the devs limited on purpose. which should tell you they're not creating a bland mess trying to appeal to as much people as possible *cough* unlike gw2 *cough* but have strict design goals and intentions).

it would also help to get a clue instead in incessantly hyping gw2's inventory AND ACTUALLY read what people post - because all this has already been discussed in other threads at length (yes, pls continue to make more threads about this topic, you might actually trick someone to think it's more important this way.).

some links that might help you:
http://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/articles/designing-an-rpg-inventory-system-that-fits-preliminary-steps--gamedev-14725
http://www.gamedev.net/topic/621945-mmo-inventory-discussion/
http://my.mmosite.com/2424376/blog/ritem/game_theory_inventing_the_inventory.html

with that I'm out, you don't really need me to make yourself look like fool.

Stop cross posting crap. Did you even bother to read those links? They are RPG centric, which is part of this games problem...it is an MMO and the devs are confused about what that means in some systems, apparently. The one link that talks about MMOs specifically is a lame forum devnet discussion limited to QUEST ITEMS. Geesh you fail. I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't grasp the difference between an RPG and an MMORPG. It would explain things.

Again you miss the point totally...@SuperScrubby's comparison was a simple one - according to him, a good inventory system isn't missed or appreciated until you don't have one...kind of like a clean bathroom. Some how you went from a clean/dirty bathroom analogy to a NO bathroom situation- how you managed that fail in comprehension is as puzzling as the rest of your fails...you either dont read or cant grasp meaning. Either way, do better or stay in your thread. Get it yet or do we need to wait longer for you to catch up?

temjiu

Low side of the curve. Worse than average, missing some real QoL features that should be standard...Will do nothing to keep or attract players to the game.

I would have voted the worst column, but I don't see it being so extreme that they are "losing players" over it. but it needs some serious work. More effective filtering options, the ability to lock items out so you don't sell/decon by accident, the ability to resize icons, etc.

more space. I understand the whole "choice" thing and space imposed limitations, but the issue is you don't even have enough space to do the 2 crafts that they say you should be able to. i could fill (and i have) 2 full banks with mats just for cooking and alchemy. that doesn't take into account gear you want to store for alts, or sets you want to keep in hopes you can improve them later, etc.

Krym

Dyvim wrote: »

They are RPG centric, which is part of this games problem...it is an MMO and the devs are confused about what that means in some systems, apparently.

mmoRPG. just saying.

the links are valid in this debate, whether you personally agree or not. but I feel this is a discussion we had already...

coppersloane

More than adequate, better than most...few if any changes are needed...

Man, people love to complain. ESO's inventory space is the same, if not better, than any other MMO. And that's before you add more space.

The only thing I'd like to see added is an auto-sort option, although there is technically one already in place with the multiple tabs showing you via categories what you've got.

Dyvim

Among the worst in an MMO of this size/budget/price - ever. Missing critical features given loot/mat centric nature of the game. Source of serious frustration and a potential contributor to loss of subscribers.

Krym wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

They are RPG centric, which is part of this games problem...it is an MMO and the devs are confused about what that means in some systems, apparently.

mmoRPG. just saying.

the links are valid in this debate, whether you personally agree or not. but I feel this is a discussion we had already...

I read the links...did you? They talk predominantly about RPGs which are NOT the same, even close to the considerations required by an MMORPG...if you even try to argue that you are branding yourself hopelessly clueless.

But again, did YOU read them? How about this quote:

"The best designers are constantly placing themselves in the shoes of their target audience, developing systems that capture the spirit of their game without hampering the end-user experience."

or this one:

"At their best, RPG inventory systems are functionality intuitive and make sense within the context of your game-world. At worst, they're a source of frustration that can disrupt your game's delicate balance..."

People wouldn't be poppin addons like Pez's if this was this case for this game...it is not functionally intuitive, if it was, the provisioning, alchemy, trait research, etc. addons wouldn't be as necessary...and player after player has come here to talk about ESOs inventory as a source of frustration and tedium...which is again reflected in these poll numbers.

Miss those? Both of them? All this system does is HAMPER and CAUSE FRICTION with the end user. And that is part of their mistake and massive miscalculation - they are trying to use inventory as somekind of limit in the crafting realm, when inventory is not solely a crafting system or subsystem, so they are screwing with more things, including wrecking player playstyles in the process...which is why the poll numbers in this thread show what they show.

Again, the deniers make the case for change...over and over...lol.

But AGAIN, those links are not really appropo:

"One of the first true inventory systems to be widely implemented by RPG developers, inventories based off the "Rule of 99" are most commonly associated with classic JRPGs such as Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger and early entries into the Pokemon series...."

Even my kids are too old for pokemon, and I have no desire to discuss any of that crap here...

Dyvim

Among the worst in an MMO of this size/budget/price - ever. Missing critical features given loot/mat centric nature of the game. Source of serious frustration and a potential contributor to loss of subscribers.

coppersloane wrote: »

Man, people love to complain. ESO's inventory space is the same, if not better, than any other MMO. And that's before you add more space.

The only thing I'd like to see added is an auto-sort option, although there is technically one already in place with the multiple tabs showing you via categories what you've got.

This is simply not true. Not even close. You need to play more MMOs. TOR and GW2 have better systems, and less strain placed on them by their crafting systems. For example GW2 has a shared crafting tab where you can store up to 250 of EVERY crafting material in the game, access them acct wide by an alt at any crafting station, and deposit into it FROM ANYWHERE, ANYTIME straight from inventory. If you think ESO even comes close to that....lol....lol....lol. Really...lol.

Brennan

More than adequate, better than most...few if any changes are needed...

Dyvim wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

SuperScrubby wrote: »

I don't think it will cause a loss of subscribers, nor do I feel that its a feature that upsets the balance of the game.

Things like inventory management/bank management are akin to a clean bathroom. You won't quit working for your company because your bathrooms aren't as clean as you want it. However having a dirty bathroom does lower employee morale, but on the flip side a clean bathroom has relatively no positive effect on employee morale.

So while a bad inventory system does hinder the game, a good one is something that nobody thinks twice about because it's just assumed to be a daily part of life and taken for granted. However we as early subscribers/guinea pigs will appreciate it when if they improve it. But people that come in afterwards aren't going to think twice about it, nor will they care.

How balanced is a workplace without a bathroom? Inventory is integral to game balance.

ED: @Krym had posted some informative links about why an inventory system is integral to a game and it's development in another thread. I am leaving them here and would encourage you to read them.

Krym wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

Sorry, I almost fell out of my chair at this one...you list a GW2 "PROBLEM" as stack size limited to 250 in the JOINT crafting tab that could store 250 of every single mat in the game, which was accessible, for crafting, without having to go to a bank, to every toon on the account...and also, a huge QoL feature, you could deposit into the craft tab, directly FROM INVENTORY without having to go back to a bank in town...and you call that a PROBLEM??? If that is what you call a problem then the state that this game's inventory is in is a complete and total apocalyptic disaster of biblical proportions - and you are here trying to defend it???

Good grief, did you even read what you typed??? A "minigame" of constant, tedious inventory management is not appealing to many players, especially as other games have provided better systems, and players do NOT want to go back to more primitive conditions. This should surprise no one.

Between you and LadyintheLake you make arguments for change, inadvertently, that are just great and compelling. Keep it up.

I really begin to question your reading comprehension, or basic discussion skills in general.

in one post you complain the bank is shared thus less space across chars then you promote a bank with 250 item per stack with single stack slots (and that you could bank from every char has exactly what to do with the discussion about the amount of bank slots?). so you're saying because it's better in your opinion it has no problems whatsoever? oookay. you really should get that ignoring problem checked out.

your whole argument boils down to ZOS WHY U NO COPY THIS OR THAT FROM THAT GAME (completely ignoring everything else). what's next, flying mounts? hey, they ARE more appealing, players pay real money for them and as you said players want convenience above all else. win/win for everybody!

even more interesting is that you think the devs don't see that as well. either you managed to ignore that during your hissy fits or you actually think they're stupid.
if you really wan't to convince the devs you need some good arguments for them to spend the devtime and money on it (and no "waaah players quit!!" either, considering people quit for all kinds of reasons all the time, even for stuff the devs limited on purpose. which should tell you they're not creating a bland mess trying to appeal to as much people as possible *cough* unlike gw2 *cough* but have strict design goals and intentions).

it would also help to get a clue instead in incessantly hyping gw2's inventory AND ACTUALLY read what people post - because all this has already been discussed in other threads at length (yes, pls continue to make more threads about this topic, you might actually trick someone to think it's more important this way.).

some links that might help you:
http://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/articles/designing-an-rpg-inventory-system-that-fits-preliminary-steps--gamedev-14725
http://www.gamedev.net/topic/621945-mmo-inventory-discussion/
http://my.mmosite.com/2424376/blog/ritem/game_theory_inventing_the_inventory.html

with that I'm out, you don't really need me to make yourself look like fool.

Stop cross posting crap. Did you even bother to read those links? They are RPG centric, which is part of this games problem...it is an MMO and the devs are confused about what that means in some systems, apparently. The one link that talks about MMOs specifically is a lame forum devnet discussion limited to QUEST ITEMS. Geesh you fail. I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't grasp the difference between an RPG and an MMORPG. It would explain things.

Again you miss the point totally...@SuperScrubby's comparison was a simple one - according to him, a good inventory system isn't missed or appreciated until you don't have one...kind of like a clean bathroom. Some how you went from a clean/dirty bathroom analogy to a NO bathroom situation- how you managed that fail in comprehension is as puzzling as the rest of your fails...you either dont read or cant grasp meaning. Either way, do better or stay in your thread. Get it yet or do we need to wait longer for you to catch up?

Dyvim wrote: »

Krym wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

They are RPG centric, which is part of this games problem...it is an MMO and the devs are confused about what that means in some systems, apparently.

mmoRPG. just saying.

the links are valid in this debate, whether you personally agree or not. but I feel this is a discussion we had already...

I read the links...did you? They talk predominantly about RPGs which are NOT the same, even close to the considerations required by an MMORPG...if you even try to argue that you are branding yourself hopelessly clueless.

But again, did YOU read them? How about this quote:

"The best designers are constantly placing themselves in the shoes of their target audience, developing systems that capture the spirit of their game without hampering the end-user experience."

or this one:

"At their best, RPG inventory systems are functionality intuitive and make sense within the context of your game-world. At worst, they're a source of frustration that can disrupt your game's delicate balance..."

People wouldn't be poppin addons like Pez's if this was this case for this game...it is not functionally intuitive, if it was, the provisioning, alchemy, trait research, etc. addons wouldn't be as necessary...and player after player has come here to talk about ESOs inventory as a source of frustration and tedium...which is again reflected in these poll numbers.

Miss those? Both of them? All this system does is HAMPER and CAUSE FRICTION with the end user. And that is part of their mistake and massive miscalculation - they are trying to use inventory as somekind of limit in the crafting realm, when inventory is not solely a crafting system or subsystem, so they are screwing with more things, including wrecking player playstyles in the process...which is why the poll numbers in this thread show what they show.

Again, the deniers make the case for change...over and over...lol.

But AGAIN, those links are not really appropo:

"One of the first true inventory systems to be widely implemented by RPG developers, inventories based off the "Rule of 99" are most commonly associated with classic JRPGs such as Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger and early entries into the Pokemon series...."

Even my kids are too old for pokemon, and I have no desire to discuss any of that crap here...

Dyvim wrote: »

coppersloane wrote: »

Man, people love to complain. ESO's inventory space is the same, if not better, than any other MMO. And that's before you add more space.

The only thing I'd like to see added is an auto-sort option, although there is technically one already in place with the multiple tabs showing you via categories what you've got.

This is simply not true. Not even close. You need to play more MMOs. TOR and GW2 have better systems, and less strain placed on them by their crafting systems. For example GW2 has a shared crafting tab where you can store up to 250 of EVERY crafting material in the game, access them acct wide by an alt at any crafting station, and deposit into it FROM ANYWHERE, ANYTIME straight from inventory. If you think ESO even comes close to that....lol....lol....lol. Really...lol.

Thanks again for sharing your opinions. I really admire your courage.

Gillysan

More than adequate, better than most...few if any changes are needed...

Dyvim wrote: »

Gillysan wrote: »

Current & present solutions you can go and click on and have working immediately have been presented yet all some of you want to do is keep whining instead of tackling the problem. Add-on's, spreadsheets, web tools. There has even been some philosophy thrown around and my one good cartoon that spells it out. I'll just leave this one link for the second time and you guys can go figure it out or wallow in misery. This is your choice and yours only.
http://minion.mmoui.com/

Yeah minion is great...most people in my guild use it for their addon management, and I use many of those addons...the ones for provisioning, alchemy, research, etc. and they are good bandaids...but they are just that, bandaids. You can mail bounce and up your storage by around 250 with an addon as well. But personally I would be nervous about the integrity of the mail system for storage like that....

The need for these bandaids simply strengthens the case that the underlying systems are NOT getting it done for the playerbase, so they are having to use workarounds, addons, etc. Thanks for pointing out the deficiencies and the need to compensate for them yet again. Once again the case for change is made by its opponents, ah the irony.

These aren't band-aids, this is what the players asked for a long time ago - "it's not an Elder Scrolls game unless it can be modded". Since it's not single player there is only so much modding that will be allowed. This is the reason why the API exists in the first place. A core feature of the game.

Dyvim

Among the worst in an MMO of this size/budget/price - ever. Missing critical features given loot/mat centric nature of the game. Source of serious frustration and a potential contributor to loss of subscribers.

Brennan wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

SuperScrubby wrote: »

I don't think it will cause a loss of subscribers, nor do I feel that its a feature that upsets the balance of the game.

Things like inventory management/bank management are akin to a clean bathroom. You won't quit working for your company because your bathrooms aren't as clean as you want it. However having a dirty bathroom does lower employee morale, but on the flip side a clean bathroom has relatively no positive effect on employee morale.

So while a bad inventory system does hinder the game, a good one is something that nobody thinks twice about because it's just assumed to be a daily part of life and taken for granted. However we as early subscribers/guinea pigs will appreciate it when if they improve it. But people that come in afterwards aren't going to think twice about it, nor will they care.

How balanced is a workplace without a bathroom? Inventory is integral to game balance.

ED: @Krym had posted some informative links about why an inventory system is integral to a game and it's development in another thread. I am leaving them here and would encourage you to read them.

Krym wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

Sorry, I almost fell out of my chair at this one...you list a GW2 "PROBLEM" as stack size limited to 250 in the JOINT crafting tab that could store 250 of every single mat in the game, which was accessible, for crafting, without having to go to a bank, to every toon on the account...and also, a huge QoL feature, you could deposit into the craft tab, directly FROM INVENTORY without having to go back to a bank in town...and you call that a PROBLEM??? If that is what you call a problem then the state that this game's inventory is in is a complete and total apocalyptic disaster of biblical proportions - and you are here trying to defend it???

Good grief, did you even read what you typed??? A "minigame" of constant, tedious inventory management is not appealing to many players, especially as other games have provided better systems, and players do NOT want to go back to more primitive conditions. This should surprise no one.

Between you and LadyintheLake you make arguments for change, inadvertently, that are just great and compelling. Keep it up.

I really begin to question your reading comprehension, or basic discussion skills in general.

in one post you complain the bank is shared thus less space across chars then you promote a bank with 250 item per stack with single stack slots (and that you could bank from every char has exactly what to do with the discussion about the amount of bank slots?). so you're saying because it's better in your opinion it has no problems whatsoever? oookay. you really should get that ignoring problem checked out.

your whole argument boils down to ZOS WHY U NO COPY THIS OR THAT FROM THAT GAME (completely ignoring everything else). what's next, flying mounts? hey, they ARE more appealing, players pay real money for them and as you said players want convenience above all else. win/win for everybody!

even more interesting is that you think the devs don't see that as well. either you managed to ignore that during your hissy fits or you actually think they're stupid.
if you really wan't to convince the devs you need some good arguments for them to spend the devtime and money on it (and no "waaah players quit!!" either, considering people quit for all kinds of reasons all the time, even for stuff the devs limited on purpose. which should tell you they're not creating a bland mess trying to appeal to as much people as possible *cough* unlike gw2 *cough* but have strict design goals and intentions).

it would also help to get a clue instead in incessantly hyping gw2's inventory AND ACTUALLY read what people post - because all this has already been discussed in other threads at length (yes, pls continue to make more threads about this topic, you might actually trick someone to think it's more important this way.).

some links that might help you:
http://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/articles/designing-an-rpg-inventory-system-that-fits-preliminary-steps--gamedev-14725
http://www.gamedev.net/topic/621945-mmo-inventory-discussion/
http://my.mmosite.com/2424376/blog/ritem/game_theory_inventing_the_inventory.html

with that I'm out, you don't really need me to make yourself look like fool.

Stop cross posting crap. Did you even bother to read those links? They are RPG centric, which is part of this games problem...it is an MMO and the devs are confused about what that means in some systems, apparently. The one link that talks about MMOs specifically is a lame forum devnet discussion limited to QUEST ITEMS. Geesh you fail. I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't grasp the difference between an RPG and an MMORPG. It would explain things.

Again you miss the point totally...@SuperScrubby's comparison was a simple one - according to him, a good inventory system isn't missed or appreciated until you don't have one...kind of like a clean bathroom. Some how you went from a clean/dirty bathroom analogy to a NO bathroom situation- how you managed that fail in comprehension is as puzzling as the rest of your fails...you either dont read or cant grasp meaning. Either way, do better or stay in your thread. Get it yet or do we need to wait longer for you to catch up?

Dyvim wrote: »

Krym wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

They are RPG centric, which is part of this games problem...it is an MMO and the devs are confused about what that means in some systems, apparently.

mmoRPG. just saying.

the links are valid in this debate, whether you personally agree or not. but I feel this is a discussion we had already...

I read the links...did you? They talk predominantly about RPGs which are NOT the same, even close to the considerations required by an MMORPG...if you even try to argue that you are branding yourself hopelessly clueless.

But again, did YOU read them? How about this quote:

"The best designers are constantly placing themselves in the shoes of their target audience, developing systems that capture the spirit of their game without hampering the end-user experience."

or this one:

"At their best, RPG inventory systems are functionality intuitive and make sense within the context of your game-world. At worst, they're a source of frustration that can disrupt your game's delicate balance..."

People wouldn't be poppin addons like Pez's if this was this case for this game...it is not functionally intuitive, if it was, the provisioning, alchemy, trait research, etc. addons wouldn't be as necessary...and player after player has come here to talk about ESOs inventory as a source of frustration and tedium...which is again reflected in these poll numbers.

Miss those? Both of them? All this system does is HAMPER and CAUSE FRICTION with the end user. And that is part of their mistake and massive miscalculation - they are trying to use inventory as somekind of limit in the crafting realm, when inventory is not solely a crafting system or subsystem, so they are screwing with more things, including wrecking player playstyles in the process...which is why the poll numbers in this thread show what they show.

Again, the deniers make the case for change...over and over...lol.

But AGAIN, those links are not really appropo:

"One of the first true inventory systems to be widely implemented by RPG developers, inventories based off the "Rule of 99" are most commonly associated with classic JRPGs such as Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger and early entries into the Pokemon series...."

Even my kids are too old for pokemon, and I have no desire to discuss any of that crap here...

Dyvim wrote: »

coppersloane wrote: »

Man, people love to complain. ESO's inventory space is the same, if not better, than any other MMO. And that's before you add more space.

The only thing I'd like to see added is an auto-sort option, although there is technically one already in place with the multiple tabs showing you via categories what you've got.

This is simply not true. Not even close. You need to play more MMOs. TOR and GW2 have better systems, and less strain placed on them by their crafting systems. For example GW2 has a shared crafting tab where you can store up to 250 of EVERY crafting material in the game, access them acct wide by an alt at any crafting station, and deposit into it FROM ANYWHERE, ANYTIME straight from inventory. If you think ESO even comes close to that....lol....lol....lol. Really...lol.

Thanks again for sharing your opinions. I really admire your courage.

You are just a ridiculous troll. Unable to learn or comprehend. Some of the above were my opinions but most aren't. Quoting from articles YOU CROSS POSTED is not an opinion. I can't help it if you didn't bother to read them, again, and they rip your precious illusory view to shreds. Pro tip, don't cross post something that shreds your argument...you might actually want to read it first...lol, what a noob. Accurately describing how the craft mat storage in gw2 works is not an opinion. Correctly characterizing an analogy you cant grasp again is not an opinion. Wow, it must really be hard for you to try to maintain a failed narrative by blocking out reality...how are those poll numbers looking for ya?

Brennan

More than adequate, better than most...few if any changes are needed...

Dyvim wrote: »

"Blackhorne wrote: »

...
During the beta, the ZOS team adjusted the way inventory management works on more than one occasion. It's a mechanic they were actively investigating and tweaking to meet specific goals. This tells me that there was a specific logic behind their implementation of this feature.

If this implementation doesn't fit what you want, that's okay, and you're well within your rights to say so. There are some things I don't like about it myself, for example:
1. Items don't always stack automatically and using items can lead to suboptimal stacking.
2. Sorting and searching definitely needs improvement.
But you went beyond that, and said that this system was not logical, when there is ample evidence that it was.

Sure they adjusted...and they are going to adjust it again. Watching them struggle post launch with the meager inv system they do have, comparatively, I am convinced of two things: the reason we don't have better inventory and an auction house is simply because, primarily, they couldn't pull it off and meet their launch date. This is not a slam...I'm sure the megaserver implementation, which is a great idea, has caused issues for them, more than we know.

Seems that the only people struggling are those that can't seem to manage their inventory. Those of us that are get along just fine.

But I get it - this game is just too hard for you. There are a lot of easier games.

And you still haven't answered my question:

How much do you suppose it costs CCP to have virtually an infinite number of items in a station hangar without "blowing up" the database and the server storage requirements?

Brennan

More than adequate, better than most...few if any changes are needed...

Dyvim wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

SuperScrubby wrote: »

I don't think it will cause a loss of subscribers, nor do I feel that its a feature that upsets the balance of the game.

Things like inventory management/bank management are akin to a clean bathroom. You won't quit working for your company because your bathrooms aren't as clean as you want it. However having a dirty bathroom does lower employee morale, but on the flip side a clean bathroom has relatively no positive effect on employee morale.

So while a bad inventory system does hinder the game, a good one is something that nobody thinks twice about because it's just assumed to be a daily part of life and taken for granted. However we as early subscribers/guinea pigs will appreciate it when if they improve it. But people that come in afterwards aren't going to think twice about it, nor will they care.

How balanced is a workplace without a bathroom? Inventory is integral to game balance.

ED: @Krym had posted some informative links about why an inventory system is integral to a game and it's development in another thread. I am leaving them here and would encourage you to read them.

Krym wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

Sorry, I almost fell out of my chair at this one...you list a GW2 "PROBLEM" as stack size limited to 250 in the JOINT crafting tab that could store 250 of every single mat in the game, which was accessible, for crafting, without having to go to a bank, to every toon on the account...and also, a huge QoL feature, you could deposit into the craft tab, directly FROM INVENTORY without having to go back to a bank in town...and you call that a PROBLEM??? If that is what you call a problem then the state that this game's inventory is in is a complete and total apocalyptic disaster of biblical proportions - and you are here trying to defend it???

Good grief, did you even read what you typed??? A "minigame" of constant, tedious inventory management is not appealing to many players, especially as other games have provided better systems, and players do NOT want to go back to more primitive conditions. This should surprise no one.

Between you and LadyintheLake you make arguments for change, inadvertently, that are just great and compelling. Keep it up.

I really begin to question your reading comprehension, or basic discussion skills in general.

in one post you complain the bank is shared thus less space across chars then you promote a bank with 250 item per stack with single stack slots (and that you could bank from every char has exactly what to do with the discussion about the amount of bank slots?). so you're saying because it's better in your opinion it has no problems whatsoever? oookay. you really should get that ignoring problem checked out.

your whole argument boils down to ZOS WHY U NO COPY THIS OR THAT FROM THAT GAME (completely ignoring everything else). what's next, flying mounts? hey, they ARE more appealing, players pay real money for them and as you said players want convenience above all else. win/win for everybody!

even more interesting is that you think the devs don't see that as well. either you managed to ignore that during your hissy fits or you actually think they're stupid.
if you really wan't to convince the devs you need some good arguments for them to spend the devtime and money on it (and no "waaah players quit!!" either, considering people quit for all kinds of reasons all the time, even for stuff the devs limited on purpose. which should tell you they're not creating a bland mess trying to appeal to as much people as possible *cough* unlike gw2 *cough* but have strict design goals and intentions).

it would also help to get a clue instead in incessantly hyping gw2's inventory AND ACTUALLY read what people post - because all this has already been discussed in other threads at length (yes, pls continue to make more threads about this topic, you might actually trick someone to think it's more important this way.).

some links that might help you:
http://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/articles/designing-an-rpg-inventory-system-that-fits-preliminary-steps--gamedev-14725
http://www.gamedev.net/topic/621945-mmo-inventory-discussion/
http://my.mmosite.com/2424376/blog/ritem/game_theory_inventing_the_inventory.html

with that I'm out, you don't really need me to make yourself look like fool.

Stop cross posting crap. Did you even bother to read those links? They are RPG centric, which is part of this games problem...it is an MMO and the devs are confused about what that means in some systems, apparently. The one link that talks about MMOs specifically is a lame forum devnet discussion limited to QUEST ITEMS. Geesh you fail. I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't grasp the difference between an RPG and an MMORPG. It would explain things.

Again you miss the point totally...@SuperScrubby's comparison was a simple one - according to him, a good inventory system isn't missed or appreciated until you don't have one...kind of like a clean bathroom. Some how you went from a clean/dirty bathroom analogy to a NO bathroom situation- how you managed that fail in comprehension is as puzzling as the rest of your fails...you either dont read or cant grasp meaning. Either way, do better or stay in your thread. Get it yet or do we need to wait longer for you to catch up?

Dyvim wrote: »

Krym wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

They are RPG centric, which is part of this games problem...it is an MMO and the devs are confused about what that means in some systems, apparently.

mmoRPG. just saying.

the links are valid in this debate, whether you personally agree or not. but I feel this is a discussion we had already...

I read the links...did you? They talk predominantly about RPGs which are NOT the same, even close to the considerations required by an MMORPG...if you even try to argue that you are branding yourself hopelessly clueless.

But again, did YOU read them? How about this quote:

"The best designers are constantly placing themselves in the shoes of their target audience, developing systems that capture the spirit of their game without hampering the end-user experience."

or this one:

"At their best, RPG inventory systems are functionality intuitive and make sense within the context of your game-world. At worst, they're a source of frustration that can disrupt your game's delicate balance..."

People wouldn't be poppin addons like Pez's if this was this case for this game...it is not functionally intuitive, if it was, the provisioning, alchemy, trait research, etc. addons wouldn't be as necessary...and player after player has come here to talk about ESOs inventory as a source of frustration and tedium...which is again reflected in these poll numbers.

Miss those? Both of them? All this system does is HAMPER and CAUSE FRICTION with the end user. And that is part of their mistake and massive miscalculation - they are trying to use inventory as somekind of limit in the crafting realm, when inventory is not solely a crafting system or subsystem, so they are screwing with more things, including wrecking player playstyles in the process...which is why the poll numbers in this thread show what they show.

Again, the deniers make the case for change...over and over...lol.

But AGAIN, those links are not really appropo:

"One of the first true inventory systems to be widely implemented by RPG developers, inventories based off the "Rule of 99" are most commonly associated with classic JRPGs such as Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger and early entries into the Pokemon series...."

Even my kids are too old for pokemon, and I have no desire to discuss any of that crap here...

Dyvim wrote: »

coppersloane wrote: »

Man, people love to complain. ESO's inventory space is the same, if not better, than any other MMO. And that's before you add more space.

The only thing I'd like to see added is an auto-sort option, although there is technically one already in place with the multiple tabs showing you via categories what you've got.

This is simply not true. Not even close. You need to play more MMOs. TOR and GW2 have better systems, and less strain placed on them by their crafting systems. For example GW2 has a shared crafting tab where you can store up to 250 of EVERY crafting material in the game, access them acct wide by an alt at any crafting station, and deposit into it FROM ANYWHERE, ANYTIME straight from inventory. If you think ESO even comes close to that....lol....lol....lol. Really...lol.

Thanks again for sharing your opinions. I really admire your courage.

You are just a ridiculous troll. Unable to learn or comprehend. Some of the above were my opinions but most aren't. Quoting from articles YOU CROSS POSTED is not an opinion. I can't help it if you didn't bother to read them, again, and they rip your precious illusory view to shreds. Pro tip, don't cross post something that shreds your argument...you might actually want to read it first...lol, what a noob. Accurately describing how the craft mat storage in gw2 works is not an opinion. Correctly characterizing an analogy you cant grasp again is not an opinion. Wow, it must really be hard for you to try to maintain a failed narrative by blocking out reality...how are those poll numbers looking for ya?

I read the articles. It is not my problem if you can't make the connection. You're dismissing them in their entirety because they do not support your position but fail to realize the common thread in all of them. Inventory is integral to games and their development. It is not the QoL that you have tried to frame it as.

I also think it's important for your case to continue with your ad hominem approach of calling everyone who disagrees with you a troll or stupid or whatever other thing you want to call people. Since your argument is weak you should continue to attack the person disagreeing with you. You're really bad at this.

This poll doesn't support anything other than your ability to bias it with your commentary as answers. It's simple:

A. Best
B. Better than average
C. Average
D. Lower than average
E. Worst

But you had to add your special brand of color commentary to it. You're engaged in intellectual dishonesty at every turn but I really admire your courage.

Dyvim

Among the worst in an MMO of this size/budget/price - ever. Missing critical features given loot/mat centric nature of the game. Source of serious frustration and a potential contributor to loss of subscribers.

I love how trolls come into a thread, spew crap, don't contribute meaningfully, and attack people, then cry like they are the innocent injured party when their feeble attempts at argument get shredded and they get their butts handed to them...so fail.

No one has ever said the inventory systems aren't integral to a game, nub. Of course they are, but it is THEIR NATURE you repeatedly fail to grasp. Just like you fail to read and understand those RPG articles...which is particularly embarrassing since you cross posted them like a nub.

I'm not dismissing the articles, I am pointing out they deal with RPGs primarily, while this is an MMORPG, a big difference...but even then they sink you. So actually you are the one that is hiding from them, I AM THE ONE QUOTING THEM. You just cant handle these excerpts can you??? They just shred your narrative and you must ignore them, like all the other feedback that you just cant twist or accept...like the numbers in this poll itself...you can troll and troll and troll, yet you have to ignore the most basic thing in the thread...the feedback those numbers are providing...how sad...but here, you like multiposting and cross posting, here is another shot - or maybe you can whip out another car analogy to get shredded with:


This one:

"The best designers are constantly placing themselves in the shoes of their target audience, developing systems that capture the spirit of their game without hampering the end-user experience."

or this one:

"At their best, RPG inventory systems are functionality intuitive and make sense within the context of your game-world. At worst, they're a source of frustration that can disrupt your game's delicate balance..."


I put virtually the same amount of descriptors on the plus side as I did the minus side, 3-4 for each, and in approximately the same language. Industry leader, best of the best, are pretty strong terms. If you actually wanted to worry about intellectual honesty, you would start by laughing at your own poll, which was pathetically simplistic and obviously skewed in its lack of meaningful choice given the dynamics of the ongoing discussion that it was USELESS. If you were really interested in honest debate and listening to others opinions, you could have put up that five option poll that basically mirrors mine, except that just isnt an option for you, now is it...I have no problem staying out of that thread, but you just cant manage to stay out of this one? Why is that, troll? Are you so insecure, so afraid of change and critical feedback that you just cant help yourself? This is my thread, I know why Im here...why are you?

Brennan

More than adequate, better than most...few if any changes are needed...

Dyvim wrote: »

I love how trolls come into a thread, spew crap, don't contribute meaningfully, and attack people, then cry like they are the innocent injured party when their feeble attempts at argument get shredded and they get their butts handed to them...so fail.

No one has ever said the inventory systems aren't integral to a game, nub. Of course they are, but it is THEIR NATURE you repeatedly fail to grasp. Just like you fail to read and understand those RPG articles...which is particularly embarrassing since you cross posted them like a nub.

I put virtually the same amount of descriptors on the plus side as I did the minus side, 3-4 for each, and in approximately the same language. Industry leader, best of the best, are pretty strong terms. If you actually wanted to worry about intellectual honesty, you would start by laughing at your own poll, which was pathetically simplistic and obviously skewed in its lack of meaningful choice given the dynamics of the ongoing discussion that it was USELESS. If you were really interested in honest debate and listening to others opinions, you could have put up that five option poll that basically mirrors mine, except that just isnt an option for you, now is it...I have no problem staying out of that thread, but you just cant manage to stay out of this one? Why is that, troll? Are you so insecure, so afraid of change and critical feedback that you just cant help yourself? This is my thread, I know why Im here...why are you?

More ad hominem. I really didn't see that coming from you.

You do now realize that this thread is less about your whine about the inventory and more about:

1. How much you dislike me posting in your thread. Although, I do not recall coming to any agreement and am not aware of any forum etiquette that prohibits me from doing so.

2. Your clear bias in the commentary-ish answers presented in this "poll".

So keep attacking me and defending your bias.

Also you've still not answered the question.

Brennan wrote:

Inventory is not QoL. It is integral to the game's balance. If it were just QoL every game everywhere would just have infinite space. There is a reason inventory is limited both in this game and in others. Do you know what the reason is?

Dyvim wrote:

Gee, now why would INFINITE space cause a problem...maybe because infinite space would cost developers an infinite amount of money to provide... It would blow up the database and the server storage requirements. Maybe you just didn't think about the word you were using, it happens for you a lot.

Brennan wrote:

How much do you suppose it costs CCP to have virtually an infinite number of items in a station hangar without "blowing up" the database and the server storage requirements?

Dyvim

Among the worst in an MMO of this size/budget/price - ever. Missing critical features given loot/mat centric nature of the game. Source of serious frustration and a potential contributor to loss of subscribers.

Complaining about ad hominem while using ad hominem really is the height of stupidity.

There is no reason to try and describe what infinite means to you, and the problems infinity would cause in a database, if you cant already grasp that on your own. Your whole premise is stupid, since there is a cost in overhead, maintenance and retrieval performance to unlimited storage - there are other obvious considerations about why you cant provide unlimited space - and no one is asking for it here anyway, which makes your question even more stupid. There are also different types of loot...much of it, in many games is UNIQUE, as well as some crafted items...and has unique identifiers in the database...you have obviously never done any programming or software design work, or you wouldn't be asking such a stupid question as to why a system couldnt handle infinite unique items. Even if you were just dealing with commodities, you aren't going to store an infinite number in any data field...because its too big...its infinite...duh.

Also, you have yet to meaningfully respond to anything in this thread, all you have done is troll it, so you don't get to dodge questions and then ask bogus ones of others. You don't get to ignore excerpts from links YOU cross posted, and then play the injured party, when cross posting is a noob move in the first place. Im sorry for you, that you didn't bother to read them first to see that they made you look stupid.

Brennan

More than adequate, better than most...few if any changes are needed...

Dyvim wrote: »

Complaining about ad hominem while using ad hominem really is the height of stupidity.

There is no reason to try and describe what infinite means to you, and the problems infinity would cause in a database, if you cant already grasp that on your own. There are also different types of loot...much of it, in many games is UNIQUE, as well as some crafted items...and has unique identifiers in the database...you have obviously never done any programming or software design work, or you wouldn't be asking such a stupid question as to why a system couldnt handle infinite unique items. Even if you were just dealing with commodities, you aren't going to store an infinite number in any data field...because its too big...its infinite...duh.

Also, you have yet to meaningfully respond to anything in this thread, all you have done is troll it, so you don't get to dodge questions and then ask bogus ones of others. You don't get to ignore excerpts from links YOU cross posted, and then play the injured party, when cross posting is a noob move in the first place. Im sorry for you, that you didn't bother to read them first to see that they made you look stupid.

So, to be clear, you're not going to answer the question and you're going to continue to call me stupid and noob.

Since you want to call my programming and software design credentials into question I wonder when is your first MMO game coming out? Since you have all the answers about what an MMO must have in terms of inventory, I wonder when is your game scheduled for release?

There is a reason inventory is limited both in this game and in others. Why do you suppose that is?

And just for fun, try to respond without the ad hominems. I can tell by all your other posting that it will be hard for you but just give it a try. It only makes you look childish to respond in an argument with a string of "you're a poopoo head!" remarks.

c1r3gamerb16_ESO

About average. Decent features and implementation, nothing special in the genre...

I voted for average. My main gripe is the bank storage - fine for one character (as in other MMO's) but really needs more than 10 slot upgrades at a time if you are running multiple characters and all using the same bank.