Do you Believe Lack of Inventory Space May Cause Some Cancellations?

Cahlann

Maybe

I wouldn't go as far as cancelling my sub, but constantly having to manage my inventory by porting back to town to sell/craft to clear some space in b/w questing is a daunting & time consuming task.

The mass amounts of enchanting runes & provision ingredients eat up a lot of my current storage capacity. (bank slots included) Love the game but the average amt of bag space required for crafting is not very proportionate atm, imho.

I'd love the option (even if it required saving a hefty amt of gold/skill points/etc.) of perhaps having some type of bank slot just for that one specific crafting item. Not the general materials tab but a bag/bank slot only for runes (for example) that would hold a large amt but the trade off being the price & only storing that "type" of item for crating or any idea similar that may alleviate crafting storage issues.

Blackhorne

Yes

Dyvim wrote: »

Blackhorne wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

The consequences you speak of are also a direct result of ARBITRARY LIMITATIONS this game places on players.
ARBITRARY.

Guess what? So is the number of hit points you have at level 1. TOTALLY ARBITRARY.

EVERY SINGLE ASPECT OF EVERY SINGLE COMPUTER GAME IN EXISTENCE IS TOTALLY ARBITRARY.

Interesting assertion. Perhaps. I would say starting at level 1 is not arbitrary. At least not in a game that has levels. I would say having bosses that are more difficult than standard mobs is not arbitrary...I could come up with countless other examples where things are a certain way based on a certain logic...which means a lack of arbitrariness. How is that? Or how about I phrase it this way...some things in a game are more arbitrary than others....lol.

Also, a thing like hit points belongs to a system, or multiple systems in a game, say character advancement, or combat - that are fundamentally different in nature than a QoL system like logistics or inventory. What I am trying to say is that some systems have a larger QoL aspect to them than others.

Then you should have said that instead of typing TOTALLY ARBITRARY IN ALL CAPS. I would say that "some things in a game are more arbitrary than others" is a good start, although I would rephrase it as "some aspects of a game are closer to the arbitrary decisions that make up the game than others".

But I disagree with your assertion that combat and character advancement are fundamentally different than inventory management. Certainly they are different in appearance, but they're all challenges which need to be addressed in developing a character in a virtual environment.

I think you'll find that the primary difference is that you personally find inventory management boring. That's a perfectly valid opinion. Where you fail is in linking your opinion to an assertion of "more arbitrary" or "less logical". You're confusing "logic" with "makes sense to you".

During the beta, the ZOS team adjusted the way inventory management works on more than one occasion. It's a mechanic they were actively investigating and tweaking to meet specific goals. This tells me that there was a specific logic behind their implementation of this feature.

If this implementation doesn't fit what you want, that's okay, and you're well within your rights to say so. There are some things I don't like about it myself, for example:
1. Items don't always stack automatically and using items can lead to suboptimal stacking.
2. Sorting and searching definitely needs improvement.
But you went beyond that, and said that this system was not logical, when there is ample evidence that it was.

Brennan

Maybe

I think the most contentious part of this debate is that some see inventory as a quality of life mechanic and others see it as an integral part of the game's balance.

aronothub17_ESO

Maybe

While i hate lack of bag space sometimes its not a huge deal, the only thing i hate is lack of vault space. Im a rp type person and love keeping certain armor and weapon pieces for days i feel like playing dress up, but because there is a 100% shared vault theres really not the extra space. coupled with the fact that treasure maps take up vault space and even pets take up space means basically i have to decide between my crafting, and dont say managing as enchanting takes up a lot of space, 40+ and thats just for the essence runes, coupled with the gems for my tailoring, never know what trait i may want when i craft a piece of armor, o and the different style comps, which i would just sell, but they are such trash the vendors dont even offer any gold for them meaning either i spend money on them when i need them or hoard them as i cant sell them, this basically leaves armor our of the rp pool. for prov i basically just have an alt for that, hes going to provision so hes also a mule.

So basically, i would like to see maybe a dual banking system like some games have. where each character has a personal bank and then a shared. when you expand the bank space you expand only the shared the personal doesnt expand nor can it be accessed by other toons, though wouldnt mind it expanding too. Either that or implement housing fast so i can start storing my junk in barrels and crates like i used to do in every TES game in the past.

dalendriaub17_ESO

Yes

It may cause me to cancel. Yes, I have read all the suggestions for how to manage my inventory or space. That is not my current frustration. The reason that I am running out of space is their itemization approach.

1. PVP siege equipment does not stack. I bought the same type of catapult for pvp assuming it would stack. I now have 4 separate items of it taking up space. Ex. Oil catapults do not stack. So I bought 3 and they take up 3 bag spaces. Why did they do this? Siege should stack by type.
2. The potions increase by 1 or 2 levels. That means each pot is a separate type in the space. It should increase by level of 10 or 5. What I have now is 1 health pot at lvl 23, 1 health pot at lvl 24, and so on. Each one is taking one inventory space. Why is this not stacking every 5 or 10 lvls?

The limited inventory space coupled with the strange itemization design is causing issues for many of us.

I love crafting. I love supporting pvp with siege. I love loot. If I cannot enjoy these things, why should I continue playing and paying for this game?

dalendriaub17_ESO

Yes

Last comment I will make on this. Other games have handled storing of crafting mats better.

Why did Zenimax not create a separate storage space for crafting mats? They could have still limited it. As it stands now, it is beginning to feel like they do not want me to craft. Mats are available but I have limited space to keep them. Even our guild bank is having to be managed constantly due to space issues. We have played together in another game, I never remember seeing a message from the guild leader about having to clear out the bank. Worse this is happening only after the game has been out for 2 weeks.

What will space issues be like after a month and most of us are veterans playing in the other non-alliance zones?

Shotz

Maybe

Maybe is the best answer to everything, but an inventory conundrum hasn't caused me to quit anything.

But sheesh Path of Exile, Diablo series, Torchlight...
---

As a Veteran player myself, I'll say that inventory management is absolutely no problem if you, well, manage inventory. I have zero alts (though, I will give that it means that I have no bank slots taken up by an alt's crafting materials).

Heck, I've been hoarding all the trophies I get from quests, too.

Here's a small rundown of what I did.

- Upgrade bank and bag space ASAP. Gold's not used for much anyway.

- Stop hoarding your Provisioning items. It's not worth it. Wait 'til you get recipes that use those Plump Worms or Honey Combs. In fact, just craft on the go. Provisioning isn't too difficult to hit 50 with.

- Get rid of those three Iron Ingots you've been holding on to since level 4.
- Also, get rid of that Stamina Potion you've been holding on to since level 5.

Sleepydan

Yes

If course there will be cancellations. Somebody will cancel their sub because they had a negative online experience with other subscribers.

Somebody else will cancel because they got spanked in pvp.

Somebody else will cancel because there friends are this baddies and they quit, and while they like the game they like playing with their baddie friends more.

Someone will cancel because of their ISP.


Someone will quit for every reason imaginable. Just like some people will play till the servers get shut down. Doesn't mean the sky is falling or a change needs to be made, it just means some people are tools

Sleepydan

Yes

DarkWombat wrote: »

Oh I see it the other way around. Losing those "silent" subscribers is where it hurts the most. I am sure there are plenty of players who aren't on these forums who have thought that the lack of inventory space as an issue. Common sense has to tell us this. It is a very obvious issue. ESPECIALLY for Elder Scrolls fans who are used to hoarding a lot. I mean, to limit inventory in an MMO game is bad enough but an ELDER SCROLLS game? Where there are boxes, chests, drawers everywhere to loot? Bad idea.

I am sorry for double posting, but I couldn't help myself. You are either lying, a troll, or both. You have likely NEVER played an elder scrolls game. So much of it is managing your weight and learning what to leave behind and what to take with you, because it's stupid easy to become over encumbered with worthless sweetrolls. You save up money being frugal with your inventory(go jewelry!) bought that little house in wind helm, spiced it up with upgrades and STILL had only a few chests that were easy as *** to fill up with deadric artifacts and all sorts of other cool ***.

Just because you could touch, move, interact and steal ANYTHING in every other tes game doesn't mean you did, or you should.
It meant you were in an interactive and responsive world.

And to use the opposite of that paradigm as a reason to essentially have neigh infinite storage space is *** at best.

chrisw_63_ESO

Yes

I currently have five characters - an alchemist, clothier, blacksmith and woodworker (and one enchanter-to-be). I'm concentrating on leveling the alchemist (Templar) solely because I need at least one high level character generating cash for bank space. But even working one character, quest rewards and mob drops alone fill up his bags, and then the bank, so fast I'm spending more time playing Inventory Tetris ***(LOVE that analogy, by the way!) than playing the actual game!!! I can't even harvest for his own skill, Alchemy, because of the sheer number of item slots it takes up, and that's only the first tier! Anyone who says there's plenty of space doesn't care about crafting. Runes, harvests, racial materials and trait materials take up so many slots its rediculous.

But instead of just complaining, I'll suggest a solution: Any crafter over level 5, 10, whatever, should be inducted into the i]insert important sounding faction-specific name here[/i Crafting Society, and be able to buy a separate pouch that only holds craft items related to their skill. e.g.: Enchanter's pouch - only runes; Blacksmith, Woodworker and Clothier hold only trait and racial stones; Alchemist only alchemy harvests. The raw materials for the 'gear crafters' (smith, tailor, carpenter) don't take up a lot of space, even with multiple tiers, but if those went in the pouches, too, I wouldn't complain. The pouch wouldn't have to be large, say 20 slots or so, though I think Alchemists and Provisioners crafting multiple tiers would want it to be upgradeable, maybe like the regular bag, 5 at a time?

Most serious crafters I've talked to have at least one 'Mule' character that is there solely for bank space. Mine is an especially homely Orc named Mulehead Packrat. :-) Just the fact that so many of us see this as necessary should be a Big Red Flag (tm) to the developers.

*** Inventory Tetris (TM), if you really need it defined, is moving all the excess inventory to the bank, swapping to multiple characters to remove stuff from the bank (usually concentrating on stuff they can use/research/break down), swapping back to the first character, possibly to do another round depending on bank slots.

Dyvim

Maybe

"Blackhorne wrote: »

...
During the beta, the ZOS team adjusted the way inventory management works on more than one occasion. It's a mechanic they were actively investigating and tweaking to meet specific goals. This tells me that there was a specific logic behind their implementation of this feature.

If this implementation doesn't fit what you want, that's okay, and you're well within your rights to say so. There are some things I don't like about it myself, for example:
1. Items don't always stack automatically and using items can lead to suboptimal stacking.
2. Sorting and searching definitely needs improvement.
But you went beyond that, and said that this system was not logical, when there is ample evidence that it was.

Sure they adjusted...and they are going to adjust it again. Watching them struggle post launch with the meager inv system they do have, comparatively, I am convinced of two things: the reason we don't have better inventory and an auction house is simply because, primarily, they couldn't pull it off and meet their launch date. This is not a slam...I'm sure the megaserver implementation, which is a great idea, has caused issues for them, more than we know.

LadyInTheWater

No

LastLaugh wrote: »

LadyInTheWater was attempting to argue that since 156 people voted yes in this poll, they are the ONLY ones from the entire player base who are unhappy with it. That's pure hogwash.

I didn't even come close to arguing that point.

I claimed two things:

1) The 156 people weren't a "substantial" part of the playerbase.

2) The people who were still unhappy, but weren't here on the forums, were playing the game... which means, if they are unhappy with it, they're not unhappy enough to stop playing. Which means they aren't going to be part of the "I quit" camp.

With those two things together, I felt that there isn't a substantial number of people threatening to quit. At least, not enough people to garner any sort of value for this "debate" (if you can call it that).

I think this whole inventory issue is just a whine-fest, but for some reason people keep claiming it's a "debate" to raise awareness for the devs. I call BS.

If it's a true issue for them, then convince me (and the rest of the people against more bag space). None of you are saying anything convincing. Not a single one of you has detailed out exactly why you need more bag/bank space.

I challenge the proponents of "more inventory" to detail out the stuff they have in their bags/bank. I was willing to do it, and laid it out pages ago. Straight-up facts: Here's the stuff I have, here's what I need. I work on every crafting profession at the same time.

But I doubt they will. Most likely, because all the arguments against greater inventory have revolved around "You hoard too much garbage". The proponents for more inventory know they hoard too much garbage, and don't want to be called out on it.

Dyvim

Maybe

Brennan wrote: »

I think the most contentious part of this debate is that some see inventory as a quality of life mechanic and others see it as an integral part of the game's balance.

What, you mean people that want change aren't just selfish me me me types? So you finally read enough feedback, genuine feedback, from people to convince yourself this is a real issue for a nontrivial portion of the playerbase? OK, sorry, I'll play nice, b/c I think you might be about to see the light and stop with the dogmatic "all is well". Maybe.

OK, serious discussion time. I have been playing MMOs for over 11 years...SWG, WoW, Lotro, AoC, Eve, STO, SWTOR, GW2...we all know the list. Before that, I have played games back to the late 70s with p&p AD&D...my first video game was a pong "console" hooked up to a tv. Now, does that mean anything...meh, no, but it does provide a little context.

What Zeni has done here is create a perfect storm for inventory issues. I will get back to that in abit. I have NEVER played another game where I had to create multiple mule alts FOR STORAGE or heard and seen other players talk about mules and use mules to the extent of this game. I have NEVER seen another game get its mail system "engineered" for bouncing, like this game...go check out the number of downloads on minion for Wykkyd's Mail bounce add on. About 8000, just through minion...and that has one purpose, to increase storage. The problems with inventory, or the "inventory tetris minigame", are a CONSTANT topic of discussion within my guild.

Ok perfect storm time:

1) Zeni is confused. This isn't a solo RPG game. What they have done is given us the worst of both worlds. In Skyrim, for example, inv was enc based...so many reagents were trivial to carry. It wasn't slot based, AND you were not crafting for anyone but yourself. Also, you could quick travel to numerous of your houses, where storage was all but infinite. This game has the same abundance of crafting materials, if not more, but it is SLOT based. You have crafting for others, and crafting as the dominant playstyle for some. GATHERING as a dominant playstyle for other. Yes it is an MMO. LARGE AAA MMOs pride themselves on appealing to numerous playstyles. Im sure if you asked zeni if they made their game to appeal to a wide number of playstyles, they would say yes. You don't dump 10s of millions into a game in the MMO genre without making those design choices to allow for many different playstyles. MMOs are designed to run for years, its baked into their cost structures and business model...it isn't like some FPS du jour. Again, zeni is confused. They are new to MMOs. It shows.


2) Zeni's version of shared bank inventory is the same if you have 1 toon or 8. This is ludicrous. Again, MMO here. MMO. I'll say it again...MMO, which means it is going to be compared with the evolution of loot and inventory management that the genre has undergone over more than a decade, and it is going to be compared in terms of ease of use and QoL with COMPETING PRODUCTS in the MMO market place. Welcome to being a company in the business of providing a product to consumers in a specific type of market that comes with a host of expectations.

3) Zeni has intertwined loot and crafting mats in a way most games don't. I can go through a dungeon and have a full inventory in minutes of gameplay...staffs, bows, armour, all just really stacks of crafting mats in disguise, and crafting leveling in disguise, but they DONT STACK. And you cant decon unless you go to town. There is no quick travel and back, again NOT A SOLO RPG...this creates a huge time over head to play inventory tetris.

4) Again, stacking. So many things don't stack that should. In addition you have so many items that are almost the same, but just a few levels apart...look at all the versions of health, stam, and magicka tinctures, potions, etc., you loot. You have 9 tiers of mats, across multiple crafting profs. Some profs take more mats per tier than others. Some have more research, PER ITEM type than others. 8 traits to research per item for each piece of hvy, med, and light armor, plus each type of weapon, staff, etc.

5) Research...look at the time sink of research for all the items listed above, and the corresponding back log in inventory with items waiting to get in that queue. Yeah, I could delete it and wait to loot that hvy armour gauntlet with the reinforced trait later...BUT WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO...I have one now...

6) The crafting system is hurting. It is sick. The goal of any system for crafters, especially as they progress - the concept of operations, if you will - should ideally be to level up, and as you level up, be able to sell your goods, valuable goods, for a modest profit in recognition of your time, to other players. That is not how this game works atm. Instead you have crafters making daggers for each other to decon. I lost track of the number of times I have heard guildies say, with novelty, that they were going to actually craft a suit of armor...why? For themselves, because it was cheaper than paying the decay tax on their existing armor. People trying alchemy finding out what they can make is worthless - not worth the trouble and the reagent tetris hassle. Etc.

I could go on, but basically Zeni went nuts on putting stuff into the game, a game that blurs the line between loot and crafting items, a game with a very complex crafting system that is VERY mat heavy, very trait heavy, and very crafting heavy with at least 6 crafting profs, with up to 9 tiers of mats, etc. etc. Then you have mats that are alliance specific...In other words THEY FLOODED the game with items and at the same time delivered one of the most lackluster, feature poor inventory and item sales systems I have ever seen, especially in the MMO market in recent history for a triple AAA title with this kind of budget.

Now, you can say they added "friction" and all is as they plan. They claim this...given the problem they have had with BASIC inventory function, I wouldnt be surprised if they just couldn't deliver something better and meet their launch date. Just like I think the main reason we dont have a real AH is because they couldn't deliver on it in time. Regardless, this is a fail argument for anyone used to MMOs and how they are developed and changed. Devs RARELY foresee how their plans and systems will change and be used when 100s of thousands of players hit them. This doesn't mean they are bad, unless they fail to adapt. Yes, THEM. They don't pay us, we pay them. We aren't in competition with other products...they are. They have to compete FOR OUR DOLLARS, and they have put out a game that is at the HIGH END of the price structure for the marketplace. That means people expect MORE FROM IT. This is fundamentally FAIR and a business maxim. And no matter what deniers say, inventory is a QoL system, and is handled as such, and has been by game after game after game. Look how F2P games handle it.

Simple business questions. DOES ANYONE think that the inventory system in this game provides it with a competitive advantage over other games? Does anyone think players would cite the inventory system, or the lack of an auction house, etc., as reasons they LIKE THE GAME and PREFER IT OVER OTHERS? You think ANY hardcore crafter is going to sing the praises of this AH-less game, when it makes it harder to get his goods to customers, versus almost every other AAA MMO release since WoW??? Does ANYONE think these systems would be cited as best of class? Held up as an example for other games to follow in order to help attract or retain players?

For those fanbois or deniers, who think we should adapt to the game, and that the games master plan as it is now, is some pinnacle of enlightenment, they must realize that it FAILS to provide this game with those things that would make it more competitive or more desirable. THEREFORE these systems FAIL. PERIOD. But the deniers still scream NO, ITS PERFECT. Yeah? Really? Then players wouldn't be coming up with workarounds to it on an unprecedented level...mules, mail bounce, etc. in addition to having to adapt their playstyles and basically be forced TO IGNORE LOOT or spend time managing it that is excessive compared to what MMO players are accustomed to...

Dyvim

Maybe

"LadyInTheWater wrote: »

...If it's a true issue for them, then convince me (and the rest of the people against more bag space). None of you are saying anything convincing. Not a single one of you has detailed out exactly why you need more bag/bank space.

I challenge the proponents of "more inventory" to detail out the stuff they have in their bags/bank. I was willing to do it, and laid it out pages ago. Straight-up facts: Here's the stuff I have, here's what I need. I work on every crafting profession at the same time.

But I doubt they will. Most likely, because all the arguments against greater inventory have revolved around "You hoard too much garbage". The proponents for more inventory know they hoard too much garbage, and don't want to be called out on it.

If you aren't convinced you simply haven't been reading. Go to minion and look at the number of times the mail bounce add on has been downloaded, just through minion. 7800 dls...and there will be a hell of a lot more of them as players find out about it. How is that for facts. You also seem to ignore the impact on playstyle, or the added time inventory management takes, versus competitive products. People want entertainment, are paying for it, and are paying at the high end of the MMO price range for it in this game. How many comments from different people do you have to read to figure out that it isn't fun for them as is? My guild is a large one...I have NEVER heard one person say they actually LIKE the current system. NOT ONE. I do hear daily complaints about it and daily talk about strategies to work around it.

As far as your straight up facts...what people feel they need is part of their playstyle...who the f are you, the loot police? If anything, the litany of work around and playtsyle adaptations you have rattled off in previous posts is as much an indictment of the lunacy of this system as anything anyone has posted. I have crafting mats I wont be able to use for a long time...but I will need them in the future. So do I delete them? Waste that time and opportunity and have to gather them again later? That is stupid. I am not going to accept that level of stupidity or inconvenience.

Now, again, does that mean the whole game is horrible and I am going to quit later today. No, no, no. Parts of the game are brilliant. The inv system or lack of AH system aren't though. They do nothing to attract players to the game nor will they help retain players. They will NOT be cited as best in class tools or systems. This alone is enough of an indictment for zeni to make change and do better. Are the only answers increased space or dedicated crafting mat tabs...no, but they are perhaps among the best ones. They could also let us decon IN THE FIELD, without the need to travel to town...this would allow us to overcome some of the stacking issues. Like I said above, loot can essentially be viewed in many cases as crafting materials locked into unstackable containers....

Adalich

Yes

yes I think some people will cancel
no I think some people will not cancel

she said to me, "so now we are boyfriend and girlfriend" then she tried to dress me because I didn't look quite right. I have frightening nightmares sometimes, where I say to her, you may have been right. I.lucid.dream I know she was wrong and right for me, we were both in our 20's,not the 20:20 maddog of 18.

Who left who and regenerated, tearing the veil.

sucking all cess out of America until the tank is clean

hydra sprouts and global shield defence is gone

thanksgiven

steven_shidiwenb16_ESO

No

So many essays, this isn't english class. Take your stories to someone that gives a crap. People aren't going to read an entire article you post people.

Dyvim

Maybe

steven_shidiwenb16_ESO wrote: »

So many essays, this isn't english class. Take your stories to someone that gives a crap. People aren't going to read an entire article you post people.

Good thing you don't have to...people are asking for proof and facts. People are here to have a discussion. No one makes you come here or read anything. Your post is like someone complaining about people complaining in feedback or discussion forums...duh...

Krym

Maybe

LastLaugh wrote: »

Krym wrote: »

the point is happy people play, they don't post (in general, before the nitpicking starts...).
you'll always get more "I don't like X" than "I like X" posts. forums aren't a 1:1 representation of the playerbase

There seems to be no shortage of people on here defending the current system or giving a middle ground opinion.

LadyInTheWater was attempting to argue that since 156 people voted yes in this poll, they are the ONLY ones from the entire player base who are unhappy with it. That's pure hogwash.

eh, my post was merely pointing out that you'll ALWAYS get a more negative opinion about sth on the forums.

if you mean another post, I also pointed out before most people have the basic inventory with a few upgrades and not even a mount for extra storage.

there's also no shortage of people claiming the inventory will make ZOS go bankrupt in 3 months and arguments that boil down to "I can't store everything I want whenever I want".

let's have this discussion again in a month and see how it played out...

Krym

Maybe

Dyvim wrote: »

OK, serious discussion time. I have been playing MMOs for over 11 years...SWG, WoW, Lotro, AoC, Eve, STO, SWTOR, GW2...we all know the list. Before that, I have played games back to the late 70s with p&p AD&D...my first video game was a pong "console" hooked up to a tv. Now, does that mean anything...meh, no, but it does provide a little context.

What Zeni has done here is create a perfect storm for inventory issues. I will get back to that in abit. I have NEVER played another game where I had to create multiple mule alts FOR STORAGE or heard and seen other players talk about mules and use mules to the extent of this game. I have NEVER seen another game get its mail system "engineered" for bouncing, like this game...go check out the number of downloads on minion for Wykkyd's Mail bounce add on. About 8000, just through minion...and that has one purpose, to increase storage. The problems with inventory, or the "inventory tetris minigame", are a CONSTANT topic of discussion within my guild.

I call bs on that one. plenty of people, me included, had to mule stuff around for storage, if not only to craft on another char. it was this way in wow, in lotro, in tor, and even gw2 as much as you deny it. heck people in wow have being going on for YEARS they want more storage, because there is never ENOUGH storage to store everything you want.

where do you think the term "mule" comes from in the first place?

LastLaugh

Maybe

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

LastLaugh wrote: »

LadyInTheWater was attempting to argue that since 156 people voted yes in this poll, they are the ONLY ones from the entire player base who are unhappy with it. That's pure hogwash.

I didn't even come close to arguing that point.

This is what you wrote, from page 6 of this thread:

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

As of the moment I wrote this comment, 156 people voted that they thought people might leave due to a (perceived) "lack" of inventory space.

The original EQ, at 15 years old, with outdated graphics, has about 70,000 paid active accounts. I'm willing to bet ESO has more than that.

Even in the most barren MMOs, 156 people isn't "substantial" at all. So, I doubt that there's real cause for concern.

What other point was this paragraph meant to make, if not to attempt to reduce the number of players who are unhappy with the loot system to a supposed 156 from the entire player base?

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

I claimed two things:

1) The 156 people weren't a "substantial" part of the playerbase.

Except that it's not just 156 people. That's exactly the point I am making. I'm glad that you now seem to concede that there are more (way more) than 156 people who have a problem with it.

2) The people who were still unhappy, but weren't here on the forums, were playing the game... which means, if they are unhappy with it, they're not unhappy enough to stop playing. Which means they aren't going to be part of the "I quit" camp.

Many players, myself included, will not quit over this one issue alone. But it is another thing that detracts from their enjoyment. The cumulative effect of this and other issues may eventually cause them to quit. Just as the poll doesn't count players who are happy with the current system it doesn't count those who won't bother to post on the forum before quitting.

I think this whole inventory issue is just a whine-fest, but for some reason people keep claiming it's a "debate" to raise awareness for the devs. I call BS.

Er, so your point is that none of us are actually frustrated by the inventory system and are spending our time posting here for no reason at all? Sounds very credible.

By that logic perhaps you really hate the inventory system and are just posting here because you like to troll.

If it's a true issue for them, then convince me (and the rest of the people against more bag space). None of you are saying anything convincing. Not a single one of you has detailed out exactly why you need more bag/bank space.

Numerous people have already laid out the problems it causes them in detail. The impression I get is that nothing we could say would be convincing to you. Then again, it's not you we have to convince.

I challenge the proponents of "more inventory" to detail out the stuff they have in their bags/bank. I was willing to do it, and laid it out pages ago. Straight-up facts: Here's the stuff I have, here's what I need. I work on every crafting profession at the same time.

But I doubt they will. Most likely, because all the arguments against greater inventory have revolved around "You hoard too much garbage". The proponents for more inventory know they hoard too much garbage, and don't want to be called out on it.

Dyvim said it better than I could: "Who the f are you, the loot police?"

If we didn't think we needed an item, we wouldn't keep it.

LastLaugh

Maybe

Krym wrote: »

let's have this discussion again in a month and see how it played out...

Agreed. This may become less of an issue towards endgame, as less mats of different levels are needed. I've already paid for a three-month subscription, so my plan is to give it two months (since you have to give a month's notice to cancel) and see if this and other concerns I have are being addressed by Zenimax or have become non-issues by then.

Aria

Maybe

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Are you kidding? There is so much potential space its not even funny. People need to manage there junk better not add more slots, when you have bag improvements, bank improvements, horses out the ass, you have plenty.

The system is poorly implemented and if you love to craft you spend most of your time doing inventory management, sure you can buy more space but that does not solve the underlying issue that they need to rethink how at the very least crafting mats are handled?

For anyone thats played GW2 they had by far the best inventory system specially where crafting mats were concerned, for those that are not familiar with the game basically you have built in material storage for every harvested item in the game that did not impact your normal bank or personal bag space.. it was wonderful!

Brennan

Maybe

LastLaugh wrote: »

Except that it's not just 156 people. That's exactly the point I am making. I'm glad that you now seem to concede that there are more (way more) than 156 people who have a problem with it.

That is not what this poll says. The poll is useless as it is asking people to speculate about whether people (2 or more) will quit because of the inventory.

It does not ask if anyone is happy or unhappy.
It does not ask if you think the inventory sucks.

The poll itself is pretty much pointless as is any inference made from it except what percentage of people are speculating that people will quit.

cubansyrusb16_ESO

No

so I have 130 inventory spaces and 90 bank slots .... just how many storage slots do you feel you need ............

LastLaugh

Maybe

Brennan wrote: »

LastLaugh wrote: »

Except that it's not just 156 people. That's exactly the point I am making. I'm glad that you now seem to concede that there are more (way more) than 156 people who have a problem with it.

That is not what this poll says. The poll is useless as it is asking people to speculate about whether people (2 or more) will quit because of the inventory.

It does not ask if anyone is happy or unhappy.
It does not ask if you think the inventory sucks.

The poll itself is pretty much pointless as is any inference made from it except what percentage of people are speculating that people will quit.

I realize that. I was one of the first (if not the first) to make that point, back on page 2 of this thread.

I was responding to an equally misleading "interpretation" of the statistics by another poster.

The fact that the poll is biased in no way invalidates my point that there are way more than 156 people who believe this is a problem. That is obvious from my guild chat, the conversations I have had with others in game and the seven pages of responses to this thread, many of which are in favor of changing the inventory system.

I would be all for the developers doing a proper poll of subscribers by email, asking something like, "Would you like to see the inventory slots increased?" If the results revealed majority support for it, the change could be implemented.

Brennan

Maybe

LastLaugh wrote: »

The fact that the poll is biased in no way invalidates my point that there are way more than 156 people who believe this is a problem. That is obvious from my guild chat, the conversations I have had with others in game and the seven pages of responses to this thread, many of which are in favor of changing the inventory system.

I would be all for the developers doing a proper poll of subscribers by email, asking something like, "Would you like to see the inventory slots increased?" If the results revealed majority support for it, the change could be implemented.

Okay. But what about the scary orcs?

Abeille

Yes

Brennan wrote: »

LastLaugh wrote: »

The fact that the poll is biased in no way invalidates my point that there are way more than 156 people who believe this is a problem. That is obvious from my guild chat, the conversations I have had with others in game and the seven pages of responses to this thread, many of which are in favor of changing the inventory system.

I would be all for the developers doing a proper poll of subscribers by email, asking something like, "Would you like to see the inventory slots increased?" If the results revealed majority support for it, the change could be implemented.

Okay. But what about the scary orcs?

That's racist. My Orc is absolutely adorable. She brushes her tusks after every meal and writes poetry.

You have a point. People will cancel for many small things. I remember in beta when I absolutely overreacted when I saw that I couldn't pick the hair color that I wanted for my favourite race, despite it being lore friendly. Of course I didn't think of not playing because of that problem, but I can see how people can get mad over small things and rage quit.

Dyvim

Maybe

Krym wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

OK, serious discussion time. I have been playing MMOs for over 11 years...SWG, WoW, Lotro, AoC, Eve, STO, SWTOR, GW2...we all know the list. Before that, I have played games back to the late 70s with p&p AD&D...my first video game was a pong "console" hooked up to a tv. Now, does that mean anything...meh, no, but it does provide a little context.

What Zeni has done here is create a perfect storm for inventory issues. I will get back to that in abit. I have NEVER played another game where I had to create multiple mule alts FOR STORAGE or heard and seen other players talk about mules and use mules to the extent of this game. I have NEVER seen another game get its mail system "engineered" for bouncing, like this game...go check out the number of downloads on minion for Wykkyd's Mail bounce add on. About 8000, just through minion...and that has one purpose, to increase storage. The problems with inventory, or the "inventory tetris minigame", are a CONSTANT topic of discussion within my guild.

I call bs on that one. plenty of people, me included, had to mule stuff around for storage, if not only to craft on another char. it was this way in wow, in lotro, in tor, and even gw2 as much as you deny it. heck people in wow have being going on for YEARS they want more storage, because there is never ENOUGH storage to store everything you want.

where do you think the term "mule" comes from in the first place?

Right, but if you read what I wrote, I specifically referenced the DEGREE to which this game requires mules or other "workarounds". Sure, I have had them in other games, but not as a necessity within the first few days of playing...its a matter of magnitude...dedicated crafters, especially at end game, have used different kind of storage forever...from bins in harvestors or to mules, etc. But this isn't end game. At least not for a lot of people...its getting hit with it right out of the gate...

Singular

No

dalendriaub17_ESO wrote: »

Last comment I will make on this. Other games have handled storing of crafting mats better.

Why did Zenimax not create a separate storage space for crafting mats? They could have still limited it. As it stands now, it is beginning to feel like they do not want me to craft. Mats are available but I have limited space to keep them. Even our guild bank is having to be managed constantly due to space issues. We have played together in another game, I never remember seeing a message from the guild leader about having to clear out the bank. Worse this is happening only after the game has been out for 2 weeks.

What will space issues be like after a month and most of us are veterans playing in the other non-alliance zones?

That would be nice.

I basically stopped bothering with crafting. I want to quest more and sell less, so I've stopped picking stuff up. I love exploring and checking each barrel but it's just filling up my inventory - and, no, despite what the little notices say, I cannot do 'provisioning' from my bank. It just tells me I have no ingredients.

But after you give up on crafting, you can quest for quite a long time without having to return to sell.

Warlordgreebo

Yes

It is an extra negative, and since people may already feel negative about other failings .. yes, it will add to players getting fed up/