Do you Believe Lack of Inventory Space May Cause Some Cancellations?

jmido8

Yes

I personally didn't have a problem with the inventory system at first because I planned to split up my crafting professions between several characters. Then I found out that there is no personal bank space and it was impossible for me to collect the crafting mats on my alts because I had no where to store them.

To be honest, I don't think 1 single thing could make me quit the game besides maybe getting unjustly banned. However, it's just another tick on the list of things in the back of my mind every time it's time to resubscribe. Eventually, I'll be sitting at the account page and will think to myself, 'why am I even resubscribing when there's this many things that bug me about the game' and that'll be the end of it for me.

Dyvim

Maybe

jmido8 wrote: »

I personally didn't have a problem with the inventory system at first because I planned to split up my crafting professions between several characters. Then I found out that there is no personal bank space and it was impossible for me to collect the crafting mats on my alts because I had no where to store them.

To be honest, I don't think 1 single thing could make me quit the game besides maybe getting unjustly banned. However, it's just another tick on the list of things in the back of my mind every time it's time to resubscribe. Eventually, I'll be sitting at the account page and will think to myself, 'why am I even resubscribing when there's this many things that bug me about the game' and that'll be the end of it for me.

This is the a point I have made repeatedly...the "friction" they feel they need, which other games don't, kills or severely hampers a number of playstyles, like gatherer alt, needlessly...in addition to the constant tedium of the inventory shuffle "minigame". You level a gatherer alt past where your crafter alts can handle the materials and bingo, storage nightmare.

LadyInTheWater

No

Dyvim wrote: »

This poll is dubious at best, but it possibly shows one thing...this is a substantial issue for a non-trivial cohort of the playerbase, who think it is a factor in the games QoL for players.

As of the moment I wrote this comment, 156 people voted that they thought people might leave due to a (perceived) "lack" of inventory space.

The original EQ, at 15 years old, with outdated graphics, has about 70,000 paid active accounts. I'm willing to bet ESO has more than that.

Even in the most barren MMOs, 156 people isn't "substantial" at all. So, I doubt that there's real cause for concern.

As has been stated (and ignored) numerous times in this thread:

1) Inventory is not difficult to manage. People who are having inventory issues are choosing to have inventory issues, due to their hoarding. I have yet to see any valid examples of someone legitimately needing more inventory space.

2) The people who aren't here on the forums are playing the game... which means they're playing the game. One could assume, if they're still playing, that they're managing their inventory quite well.

But, regardless of all the evidence that can be dropped in peoples' laps, the proponents for more inventory space will consistently turn a blind eye and keep asking for it.

Honestly, I could absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt, completely and wholeheartedly support someone who wanted more inventory space if they'd simply have the stones to be honest about it and say:

"I don't need more inventory space. I just want it because I like to hoard loot, I'm entirely too impatient to sell things in the guild store, I'm entirely too lazy and greedy to destroy/vendor things in my inventory, and I like to hold onto the loot I want to sell, because I want to get a good price for it by spamming in chat"

At least that argument would be honest, solid, and pretty darn hard to counter.

knightblaster

Yes

Dyvim wrote: »

What did they do? They turned around and released one of the most basic, purest themeparks the industry had ever seen with the bare minimum of community features.

So yeah...MMOs...developers...history has shown that holding onto or holding up their statements as some enlightened, unchanging gospel is both naive and foolish.

It's true that nothing is ever permanently set in stone in an MMO, but this is different from that commentary about TOR in that the game is now fully baked, and the relevant comment was one month ago -- not reflecting an early design philosophy, but the release design philosophy that is fully reflected in the release game (very much unlike the case for community tools and TOR). This was also discussed ad nauseam in the beta, and they didn't budge much other than slightly increasing the number of initial slots.

I think that the reason for that is that changing the inventory system would require them to rework the entire loot and crafting systems of the game to account for loosening what is acting as a supply cap on materials (loot in this game is a crafting mat, too). So if you allow more materials to be stored, you need to reduce the frequency with which materials are generated in order to avoid an overall increase in the supply of materials. This would include not only material node spawns (greatly reduced) loot drops but also the frequency with which loot drops convert to materials upon deconstruction (greatly reduced). Of course, that's possible to do, but it' such a systemic change that I doubt it will happen anytime soon. I think it's also fairly certain that they will not simply increase the number of slots (or create a separate crafting inventory with a huge number of slots like GW2 has) without changing the entire system -- so even if they eventually are convinced to do it, it would take time for them to design how to do it systemically without altering their plan of how much materials they want floating around at any one time and the feasibility of doing multiple crafts at once. In other words, well outside the time horizon of people who are frustrated enough by this to quit, even if they resolved today to change the system.

As I have said in multiple other posts, I also disagree with the idea of using the inventory system as a "back door cap" on crafting by means of generating player frustration. I think a system designed around frustration as a fulcrum is a bad design in a video game, generally, other than for the most hardcore gamers who literally adore being constantly frustrated in their entertainment time. Having said that, the way they have built this thing, the inventory fulcrum they've chosen to use is intertwined with the entire loot/materials supply situation, such that one can't really be changed without changing the other if balance is to be maintained. So even if they were to agree to do so (which they aren't even close to agreeing -- they're fairly dug in, at this point, I think, on this issue), it would be a large change to the game, and nothing that will happen anytime soon for practical reasons.

What that means is that while lobbying for a change here is fine (unlike other posters, I don't see an issue with lobbying developers for changes -- that's what a player community does, and, yes, it's an intensely political thing because it's different sets of players competing for the limited resources of the developers, so the disagreements among players in terms of MMO lobbying are generally intensely political in nature), expecting changes anytime soon in this area is extremely unrealistic.

Hunterkiss

No

Then cancel and stop bitching and let those who enjoy the game play it.

Avath

No

This is something that's so easy to reconfigure in code that I really wouldn't worry. Chances are things like inventory space will need a lot more play time from people to establish where the right level is. Maybe it's generally right now, maybe it's not.

Personally what I would like to see is a grid interface on the inventory though to make it easier/quicker to see what you have in there. Although that's a step away from the classic Elder Scrolls interface.

Zaxq

No

Can you just stop making pointless polls?

If they quit for something this trivial then they werent going to stay anyway.

Forums is turning into a playground for trivial whining and threads asking for nerfs, largely from people that are terrible at the game.

Can you people please stop ruining EVERY mmo by asking for it to be dumbed down easy-mode ?

Striken7

No

Will people claim this is the reason they will quit because they like to make noise? Sure. Will anyone actually quit solely based on their inability to manage a simple inventory system? I doubt it.

If they are at the point of fabricating a non-existent issue as an excuse, then they are going to leave anyway, but certainly people who actually quit will do so for much better reasons (inability to patch quest bugs, non-existent community interaction, poorly implemented combat system, etc).

idk

There is nothing wrong with the actual inventory design of the game. It was working well for me until they "fixed" the missing bank inventory slots some players experienced. When they fixed it mine went missing, like many others experienced. That has been my only hold up. Not only did the slots go missing, some of the crafting supplies that were in those slots are ones I have not seen again in game. Hopefully they get that part fixed. It would be a game breaker for me if they were not able to fix it which is probably an obvious statement. I even bought an additional 10 slots just to use until this was fixed and it went missing also.

Laura

No

my nephew quit an MMO because he accidentally sold an item to a vendor and logged out then he couldn't get it back (it was blue). He was 13 at the time, I think quitting over this would be just about as silly.

Not counting children I think no. I would hope that young adults and adults would have better sense than to try to hoard bones and stale bread. What do we want infinite inventory?

jodyren

No

So when it boils down to it, the general complaint is that they are giving you too much stuff? I mean really, thats what it amounts too. In other games, like Diablo for instance, if you pick everything up you will be doing nothing be selling junk so you have to manage. In real life there is *** everywhere. Well, heres a thought, don't pick up everything. Really guys, complaining about getting too much stuff. This generation of MMO players makes me a sad panda.

LastLaugh

Maybe

Brennan wrote: »

LastLaugh wrote: »

Yes, if the differences do not substantially hamper my enjoyment of the game. Many of the things ESO has done differently have been an improvement on previous MMOs or at least have been interesting.

The inventory system unfortunately is neither. The only good change as far as I'm concerned is the ability to use crafting materials that are in the bank.

But in this context I am asking specifically about the inventory.

Same answer. I am OK if they do the inventory system "differently" if differently is not substantially worse. The inventory system in this game is substantially worse than previous MMOs I have played, so no, I am not OK with this particular version of different.

You seem to be under the misconception that those of us who don't like the inventory system simply don't like change. I don't dislike it because it's different. I dislike it because it doesn't work very well.

Duvaineth

Yes

The bag and bank space cap is not enough for some people. I personally Enjoy Rping and those who rp know very well that a larger bank space will be needed for those who wish to gather various Rp clothing, weapons or whatever they would use in RP. One bank for main and alts aint a bad idea at all, but they should make it alot alot bigger. I have one main atm and i have loaded the bank with items i would use for RP on that one toon. If I were to make any alts, well not enough space for their gear.

Soldier0f4Tune

Yes

It sucks - 2 hours every night banking.

Plus now the Dupe Bug means all the gold sellers and cheaters have maxed out inventories whilst the honest players suffer!

LastLaugh

Maybe

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

This poll is dubious at best, but it possibly shows one thing...this is a substantial issue for a non-trivial cohort of the playerbase, who think it is a factor in the games QoL for players.

As of the moment I wrote this comment, 156 people voted that they thought people might leave due to a (perceived) "lack" of inventory space.

The original EQ, at 15 years old, with outdated graphics, has about 70,000 paid active accounts. I'm willing to bet ESO has more than that.

Even in the most barren MMOs, 156 people isn't "substantial" at all. So, I doubt that there's real cause for concern.

This poll is horribly biased for reasons that I have already pointed out in detail. But your analysis is equally flawed. Your conclusion would be correct if the poll had surveyed the entire player base, and only 156 people responded negatively. It didn't. It surveyed a tiny, tiny percentage.

If you surveyed the entire player population (preferably with a less biased question) then the figure would be far higher. As I am making this post, 42% of respondents said they thought some people might leave. If you want to extrapolate with your 70,000 figure, that would translate to 29,400 players.

LastLaugh

Maybe

Hunterkiss wrote: »

Then cancel and stop bitching and let those who enjoy the game play it.

Those of us who dislike the inventory system paid for the game just like you did. We have every right to express our opinions about the product we have paid for on the public forums that have been created for that purpose.

I could just as easily say, if you don't like reading negative comments about the game then don't read the forums. These types of comments do not advance the discussion.

LastLaugh

Maybe

jmido8 wrote: »

To be honest, I don't think 1 single thing could make me quit the game besides maybe getting unjustly banned. However, it's just another tick on the list of things in the back of my mind every time it's time to resubscribe. Eventually, I'll be sitting at the account page and will think to myself, 'why am I even resubscribing when there's this many things that bug me about the game' and that'll be the end of it for me.

This (though if there is a lack of sufficiently challenging and rewarding end-game content, that would also be on my very short list of "This Issue Alone Would Make Me Quit.")

If I didn't like the game, I wouldn't be taking the time to try to alert the developers to the changes I'd like to see made. I'd just have stopped playing. Quality of life issues add up, however. The inventory situation and replacing auction houses with guild stores with poor search functions are two issues that annoy me every session I play.

papagoose

No

It may be the straw that breaks the camel's back for some, but no in itself I don't think people will cancel because of this. In my opinion there are much bigger issues, namely what passes for an economy being totally run by the Public Dungeon bot brigade.

Decimus_Rex

DarkWombat wrote: »

Lets face it; this is the bottom line. If people unsub for something like this and Zenimax loses money, it will be fixed.

What Zenimax has failed to understand is that we all get that they placed a soft cap on professions by limiting inventory space. I get this for EACH character. But it makes no sense for shared storage. Shared storage should have hundreds of empty slots.

While a slight annoyance I In know I can buy my way out of it.

what might get people to leave is this debachle with gold duping and how zeni handles it

Dyvim

Maybe

Obviously, zeni is having some problems. Any MMO does at launch. But what puzzles me is how they have punted on inventory QoL and an auction house...then the simplest thing occurred to me...

They SIMPLY DID NOT HAVE THE TIME OR RESOURCES to do these areas right and make their launch dates. I'm sure with their mega server implementations that an AH has a number of issues to overcome. GW2s auction house, one of the best Ive seen when it worked, had a host of problems and down time. Zeni is obviously also having issues with inventory, as basic as it is. So when the complaints started rolling in as soon as players got their hands on the game in the betas, they had to come up with a response...uh yeah, we wanted, uh, friction...and you can uh, yeah, sell to your guild...uh yeah.

Lol, which buys them time to actually develop systems in these areas that would be competitive with other products in the MMO space...

Maybe. Or Maybe they have just made a series of poor design choices because they are MMO development noobs, and got themselves locked into thinking this was a solo RPG and couldn't distinguish when it was good to pay Homage to the TES roots, versus when it was time to deliver systems needed by players in an MMO - systems and conveniences they expect based on years of MMO evolution in the market place. People don't like the feeling that they are being inconvenienced by a product simply because the product skimped on functionality.

Either way, I am certainly willing to give them some time to straighten out, especially if we start getting some indications they have pulled head from arse on these issues.

Dyvim

Maybe

Hunterkiss wrote: »

Then cancel and stop bitching and let those who enjoy the game play it.

Uh, no one is forcing you to leave the game and come here and read our feedback...so why don't you stop bitching about our bitching, since our bitching is viable feedback, and yours isn't - you can sit in the game all day and not have to come here if you are so pleased with everything.

LadyInTheWater

No

LastLaugh wrote: »

This poll is horribly biased for reasons that I have already pointed out in detail. But your analysis is equally flawed. Your conclusion would be correct if the poll had surveyed the entire player base, and only 156 people responded negatively. It didn't. It surveyed a tiny, tiny percentage.

If you surveyed the entire player population (preferably with a less biased question) then the figure would be far higher. As I am making this post, 42% of respondents said they thought some people might leave. If you want to extrapolate with your 70,000 figure, that would translate to 29,400 players.

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

2) The people who aren't here on the forums are playing the game... which means they're playing the game. One could assume, if they're still playing, that they're managing their inventory quite well.

But, regardless of all the evidence that can be dropped in peoples' laps, the proponents for more inventory space will consistently turn a blind eye and keep asking for it.

What?

hauke

Yes

some people will dislike somethings and cancel ....
no game will be liked by everyone

so offcourse some people will cancel because of inventory issues.
farewell in some other game i say

can t do it right for everyone, not a chance

Lkory

No

What lack of inventory space?

Lets say banks works properly (never had any bank wipe, I think that bug might be due to dropping money in the bank and i never have lol) i got 130 bank slots right now and 60 of em are used for my current needs for blacksmith, woodworker and clothier.

My main character has 121 slots (Horse 11 and upgrades). My crafter alts are now at 85 slots (horse 5/ upgrades). The enchanter alt has every rune up to VR1 and is sitting at 43/85.

The first backpack upgrade is 400g, then 2k and the next is 5.9k so no i don't think anyone should quit cause he doesn't have enough inventory space.

Arsvita

No

In what appears to be a skewed poll, in many ways, I definitely Vote NO.

People will, may, quit a game for many reasons and it is normally due to a cumulative effect. Bag space may be one of the reasons, but it is not viable as a stand alone reason.

You can expand your bag space if you desire, it may seem a bit costly, but you should be able to work within the confines of this cap that was put on for a reason. Choose what you will keep, for crafting or whatever, in a thought out manner.

I use bank space for shared crafting materials among the craftswomen while keeping specific crafting items in personal bag space which has also been expanded.

I do have to shuffle items back and forth to get them to the appropriate person, but I have managed so far with the minimum expansion of bags so far.

Yes I wrote "I", but that is what everyone is addressing this post by, a personal opinion on what someone else may or may not do.

LastLaugh

Maybe

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

LastLaugh wrote: »

This poll is horribly biased for reasons that I have already pointed out in detail. But your analysis is equally flawed. Your conclusion would be correct if the poll had surveyed the entire player base, and only 156 people responded negatively. It didn't. It surveyed a tiny, tiny percentage.

If you surveyed the entire player population (preferably with a less biased question) then the figure would be far higher. As I am making this post, 42% of respondents said they thought some people might leave. If you want to extrapolate with your 70,000 figure, that would translate to 29,400 players.

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

2) The people who aren't here on the forums are playing the game... which means they're playing the game. One could assume, if they're still playing, that they're managing their inventory quite well.

But, regardless of all the evidence that can be dropped in peoples' laps, the proponents for more inventory space will consistently turn a blind eye and keep asking for it.

What?

I play the game for at least five hours a day and I still post on the forums. I'm not satisfied with the inventory system.

You are satisfied with the inventory system, and yet here you are posting on the forums.

Not sure what your point is.

Krym

Maybe

the point is happy people play, they don't post (in general, before the nitpicking starts...).
you'll always get more "I don't like X" than "I like X" posts. forums aren't a 1:1 representation of the playerbase

LastLaugh

Maybe

Krym wrote: »

the point is happy people play, they don't post (in general, before the nitpicking starts...).
you'll always get more "I don't like X" than "I like X" posts. forums aren't a 1:1 representation of the playerbase

There seems to be no shortage of people on here defending the current system or giving a middle ground opinion.

LadyInTheWater was attempting to argue that since 156 people voted yes in this poll, they are the ONLY ones from the entire player base who are unhappy with it. That's pure hogwash.

Dyvim

Maybe

Indeed it is...in guild mumble, the inventory issues, mules, mail bounce, etc. are constant, recurring topics...

GLaDOS

Maybe

I am in the maybe boat.

Will it make me quit? Hell no! I'm a sick weirdo who loves to keep everything so it stimulates my pleasure center to sort all the things and I have probably about 5 or 6 alts *just* for 'playing the storage minigame' as I call it. This is not sarcasm btw, I really do feel happy sorting stuff.

I think that it may cause other people to quit because I've been in other games where the amount of stuff you can get from toys to quest items to crafting mats to old armor etc far outweighs the amount of space you have.

Before I started enjoying space management as much as I do, having full bags/bank/inv and no place to dump it all would make me not wanna log on. I didn't have any motivation to play these games because I had nowhere to fit all of my cool things from my adventures.

As an in game hoarder, it can be rough because I don't really grasp having to choose what to keep/sell/vendor/destroy. My thought process doesn't flow that way so I simply facilitate it with my alt army.

In retrospect though,things may get a bit sticky if I decide to level another character. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

If it comes down to whether I quit or get rid of my mountains of stuff though, I will definitely start deleting my hoards because I enjoy the game itself too much.