Deadly Bash extremely OP.

Xarko

I think the problem is most of stamina based abilities suck more than bash being OP I agree with the nerf tho, bash should work as interrupt not your main source of dps. What they should do, in the same patch as this nerf, is to buff dmg of 1h+shield line skills, so anyone actually use them.

Gervis

Kellhus wrote: »

Bash hit for 155, which requires 30 levels in 1h and shield, and at least 2 points for deadly bash. Moderate stamina drain, but certainly not bad. This is necessary because there isn't a single damaging attack in the 1h/shield line. As an almost 40 DK tank with a similar build, I use bash or DK line attacks. 1h/shield has the charge. That's it.

What the commentator isn't showing is the light damage from any other weapon line at an equitable skill level is higher than 1h/shield -- and for the stamina cost (which a light attack doesn't have), bash behaves more like a weapon line ability.. which it really actually is (requires talent points, and has a stamina cost). Pick a weapon skill that does decent damage, and look at the stamina cost. Now, compare that to bash. You'll see Bash is really only amazing so long as you're comparing apples to oranges.

Also: look at any video of someone not using sword and board at the same level -- the weapon abilities scale with weapon damage (which we only have one of, and a shield which doesn't have a damage value). I think at 50 he'll be interested to see what our bash damage looks like comparatively.

You dont use the armor/spell resist debuff at all?

ChampionSheWolf

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

cbrown15_ESO wrote: »

Unrealistic? In what sense of the word, in the fact that phalanxes would do this along with their spears, or that is exactly what they did in 300

Did you just mention the 300 movie as an example of realistic combat?

And if you got slapped up side the fact with a 3 foot diameter hunk of metal and wood I guarantee you it would hurt. This whole cry that it's OP is from people that think they need to dominate 1v1 against a tank because they are still stuck in the WoW mentality that tanks are suppose to be easy kills.

And you dont think its from people whod rather have a whole set of effective skills that make tanks fearsome enemies instead?

In the end, people whining about bash are butthurt. I hardly win all the time with it, and it certainly isn't god mode in vet hands because I've beaten them at their own game. But then again only using bash is dumb, if you aren't using other abilities to compliment it, then you shouldn't be trying.

A skill doesnt need to offer god mode to be imbalanced/too strong.

It's funny you try to talk about realistic combat in a fantasy game, while realsitically, yes, combatants used the shield as a weapon in combat, whether or not 300 was realistic or not for most of it's CGI and gratuitous slow mo, the way the shield was used was actually quite accurate.

And they do. The fact people focus on the shield is because they are upset that a tank is a tank even though blocking while trying to bash drains the hell out of stamina to begin with.

And funnily enough shield bash is on the low end of the spectrum, people just focus on it because everyone thinks that DKs are suppose to be the tank class of the game, thus most of them see the majority of DKs using it, even if they are another class, and thus assume it's just them using it or them only using that which is furthest from the truth. No, what makes the bash deadly isn't the damage output, it's the unmitigated CC this game offers, but anyone with half a brain can abuse that, shield bash is the furthest abuser of this fact, but as any bads will always focus on one thing they seem to see the most.

Xarko

You guys want realistic combat? Here, proof that shield is an amazing weapon and wrecks ppl even if you are a midged without combat training.

http://youtu.be/KcfBaafRpYk

Now imagine its power when a trained person use it. They better buff it so it one shots in PvP !

beravinprb19_ESO

Xarko wrote: »

You guys want realistic combat? Here, proof that shield is an amazing weapon and wrecks ppl even if you are a midged without combat training.

Which do you think would do more "damage" to a person? Slicing them in half with a two handed weapon, or bashing them in the face with a shield? Regardless, the laws of balance dictate that the best defensive weapon can't also be the best offensive weapon.

ChampionSheWolf

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

Xarko wrote: »

You guys want realistic combat? Here, proof that shield is an amazing weapon and wrecks ppl even if you are a midged without combat training.

Which do you think would do more "damage" to a person? Slicing them in half with a two handed weapon, or bashing them in the face with a shield? Regardless, the laws of balance dictate that the best defensive weapon can't also be the best offensive weapon.

It's hardly the best offensive weapon. Furthermore, trying to cleave someone in half is hardly a sound tactic on the battlefield. Blunt instruments were more often used in medieval setting, due to armor, and massive amounts of blunt trauma, fracture bones, and other such niceties were the reality. Someone running up to cleave someone with a big hefty two handed sword well... probably got stabbed in the gullet fairly quickly or shot down by a hail of arrows before they realistically got into swinging distance, not including how unweildly a two-hander is in closer quarters combat or in confined spaces.

So yes, a shield is not only a good defensive tool but a very useful offensive weapon. Balance is already there and they are already nerfing the stamina cost on it. Againt he problem isn't really bash, it's the CC... the sooner people figure that out the smarter they might become because any class can be OP if they CC right.

beravinprb19_ESO

As a medieval warfare enthusiast, we could talk about this for posts on end. The point I was trying to make, however, is that two handers are exceptionally vulnerable in that they have little defence, but in return they were nothing short of devastating when they actually made contact. In the interests of game balance, doing a lot of damage would have the trade off of having little defensive utility. This trade off does not exist when shield bashing is doing more damage than two handers, while allowing the user to block at the same time.

kevjon74_ESO

Whatever. Decrease deadly bash benefits or increase shield bash's overall stamina requirement if you must, but please make other 1h/shld abilities do a bit more damage to compensate. Without shield bash's damage I may as well switch to 2h for all solo content or else get ready for mob fights to become excruciatingly long. Which would be sad because the sword and board play style is really, really fun right now.

semp3rfi

honestly sword and shield should have a strong damage component, and in reality shield basing is lethal. Watching your video you had *** all stamina left, sitting around 35%. Yeah you did some good damage on a single target, but other clases such as dual wield that had spent that much stamina, could have killed many more oponents.

beravinprb19_ESO

semp3rfi wrote: »

honestly sword and shield should have a strong damage component, and in reality shield basing is lethal. Watching your video you had *** all stamina left, sitting around 35%. Yeah you did some good damage on a single target, but other clases such as dual wield that had spent that much stamina, could have killed many more oponents.

In all seriousness, they probably would have died. The damage is only half the issue, the other half is that you are blocking while you do so. Blocking is one of the strongest things in PvP right now, and being able to do a lot of damage while doing so is just plain silly.

Drachenfier

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

semp3rfi wrote: »

honestly sword and shield should have a strong damage component, and in reality shield basing is lethal. Watching your video you had *** all stamina left, sitting around 35%. Yeah you did some good damage on a single target, but other clases such as dual wield that had spent that much stamina, could have killed many more oponents.

In all seriousness, they probably would have died. The damage is only half the issue, the other half is that you are blocking while you do so. Blocking is one of the strongest things in PvP right now, and being able to do a lot of damage while doing so is just plain silly.

It also consumes stamina right along with the bash you're spamming. Every single video "evidence" i've seen, one guy has done some halfway decent single target damage and drained the living crap out of their stamina bar, and somehow this is justification for nerfing the only damage ability in an otherwise completely lackluster weapon tree...a tree, I might add, that has zero aoe capability whatsoever.

Valfodr

How are there so many people defending Deadly Bash ?

This is clearly an ability meant to interrupt a target at opportune moments...but instead, it is being used to burst a player from FULL HEALTH to 0 QUICKLY and in an UNBREAKABLE stun lock. How do even look at this skill being used in pvp and think it's acceptable in its current state, unless you don't pvp or you're only defending it because you abuse it yourself.

If you come to forums to comment on a thread regarding SKILL BALANCE, please make sure you are aware it's capabilities in PVP and PVP.

Drachenfier

Valfodr wrote: »

How are there so many people defending Deadly Bash ?

I'll tell you why, in a nutshell:

1h/s line sucks. Period. No Aoe, No Dot's, no damage. All it has, is bash.

Maverick827

Which will now be doing at least 300% less damage, so the entire tree has no point considering there's a better taunt in the Undaunted line.

Andrew87

Maverick827 wrote: »

Which will now be doing at least 300% less damage,

More like ~66,67% less (assuming it was 1hit/sec, but im sure it was more). The only thing will be used from the 1h/shield are the passives. Wait, that was the case before, so...

Maverick827

Andrew87 wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

Which will now be doing at least 300% less damage,

More like ~66,67% less (assuming it was 1hit/sec, but im sure it was more). The only thing will be used from the 1h/shield are the passives. Wait, that was the case before, so...

You do know that you need to be using a weapon to gain the benefits of its passives, right?

huntgod_ESO

I wish you could use two shields...or would that then be DW? I'd be bashing with em so fast I'd start flying...

serenity_painted

Oh man i love how people are acually trying to defend this, it's absolutely hillarious.

Here's a skill that at worst, does as much damage as a weapon skill, for less stamina,faster,while still blocking and without even needing a slot on your ability bar, oh yeah... and it interupts.

But nah, that's fine, it's completely balanced beacuse of reasons.

Also aparently the one hand line sucks, never mind that it has one of the most powerful debuffs in the game, an amazing gap closer and can reflect spells.
But even if it the line was bad it still dosen't justify bash spamming being completely broken.

Therium104

Maledi l ktus wrote: »

I dont believe this skill is OP and I never used shields after leaving the tutorial.

What? You need to complain so every ability is nerfed to nothing. How dare you try and find solutions with tactics or game play!

This thread is a joke. There is a lot of OP to go around in this game. Keep complaining baddies. What comes around goes around and in the end we are left with classes that are so watered down and ineffective the game sucks. Oh yea. That includes the classes you play snowflakes.

Therium104

Valfodr wrote: »

How are there so many people defending Deadly Bash ?

This is clearly an ability meant to interrupt a target at opportune moments...but instead, it is being used to burst a player from FULL HEALTH to 0 QUICKLY and in an UNBREAKABLE stun lock. How do even look at this skill being used in pvp and think it's acceptable in its current state, unless you don't pvp or you're only defending it because you abuse it yourself.

If you come to forums to comment on a thread regarding SKILL BALANCE, please make sure you are aware it's capabilities in PVP and PVP.

The issue is the way CC works. Other classes can do this. The point is people are not smart enough to understand and process the problem.

The fact the devs increased the stamina cost of shield bash is concerning. First, they did not address the real problem, Second, they listen to an ignorant mass on the forums in a thread that is not unanimous in going one way or the other, and finally, the devs set a horrible precedent where they will listen to garbage players in the forums for balance decisions.

I see f2p and a very limited future for this game.

What you all do not understand is no class is immune to this and the bads will go from ability to ability and slowly nerf everything in the game. This thread is not factually honest. It is a bunch of kids who don't get it complaining because they don't understand something.

WrathOfRegicide

I have an idea, try going to an area that is your level. you're at least 30+ and this isn't accurate, if you're like 4-5 levels above these mobs, but i do agree deadly bash is pretty over powered.

Head.hunter

I don't know, main attack doesn't take stamina, bash takes stamina, and if spammed you have no stamina left for blocking, whereas an ability like puncture reduces target armor by 50%, increasing your own by 600. At that point bash can do good damage but it's not exactly a stun.

I find it funny how everyone says 1h/shield abilities don't do much damage, which they don't, but hey reduce bash it's op lol.

Morne30b16_ESO

i use 1h/shield and i don't shield bash spam because its just lame and not really fun or fair imho. It is extremely op. All you need to do is shield charge, knock them down and shield bash till they are dead, before they can even stand back up again. There is no way you can counter that, even if you use unmovable all you can do is run, you wont be able to do as much damage to them (because they are blocking constantly) as they will do to you.

I cant understand why some people are defending it, sure 1h/shield skills don't do as much damage as other melee weapons but they shouldn't be, there's a trade off, weapon damage for perks like :

- having a shield which gives you a higher Armour rating and that extra Armour enhancement + enchantment
- you have the opportunity to craft an extra item set over other weapon classes (8 Armour pieces + a weapon = 3 sets with perks, ok same goes for dual wield)

The skills are really good if you look beyond the damage they do and look at the debuffs they do ect. If you want a weapon that deals more damage why not just use another weapon? Seen alot of people say "well if you nerf this you should buff that" NO, the skills are fine, shield bash is op and it just looks really silly. You would assume a swing of a sword would do more damage than a bash from a shield. In the real world i would rather be smacked in the face with a shield than being hit with a sword, It really is stupid. pvp is going to end up overrun with people waving shields about the place. cmon guys think about it, its gonna be detrimental to the game if its not nerfed.

Zenimax, PLEASE nerf this asap

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

Morne30b16_ESO wrote: »

i use 1h/shield and i don't shield bash spam because its just lame and not really fun or fair imho. It is extremely op. All you need to do is shield charge, knock them down and shield bash till they are dead, before they can even stand back up again. There is no way you can counter that, even if you use unmovable all you can do is run, you wont be able to do as much damage to them (because they are blocking constantly) as they will do to you.

I cant understand why some people are defending it, sure 1h/shield skills don't do as much damage as other melee weapons but they shouldn't be, there's a trade off, weapon damage for perks like :

- having a shield which gives you a higher Armour rating and that extra Armour enhancement + enchantment
- you have the opportunity to craft an extra item set over other weapon classes (8 Armour pieces + a weapon = 3 sets with perks, ok same goes for dual wield)

The skills are really good if you look beyond the damage they do and look at the debuffs they do ect. If you want a weapon that deals more damage why not just use another weapon? Seen alot of people say "well if you nerf this you should buff that" NO, the skills are fine, shield bash is op and it just looks really silly. You would assume a swing of a sword would do more damage than a bash from a shield. In the real world i would rather be smacked in the face with a shield than being hit with a sword, It really is stupid. pvp is going to end up overrun with people waving shields about the place. cmon guys think about it, its gonna be detrimental to the game if its not nerfed.

Zenimax, PLEASE nerf this asap

I can't be more agree. I think exactly like you and I hope Zenimax listen us!

Andy22

Morne30b16_ESO wrote: »

There is no way you can counter that, even if you use unmovable all you can do is run, you wont be able to do as much damage to them (because they are blocking constantly) as they will do to you.

I'm not a PvP expert at all, but how do the basher gets "immune" to vulcanic rune? If i ever try 1 vs 1 pvp, i would ofc slot Immovable + vulcanic rune.

Halefire

Maybe they should just make melee weapons do some damage, or atleast 3 times more then they do at the moment.

Could add a stam cost... minimal though.

Would be a reason not to bash as much.

Halefire

Remember when nerfing skills that not everything is about pvp or that everyone cares to pvp.

Calgrissom

What kills me about these post is most of this crying 99.9% is about PVP. A viable tank for PVE needs shield bash in most of the top VR dungeons as we have next to no slots to place damage abilities.

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

Calgrissom wrote: »

What kills me about these post is most of this crying 99.9% is about PVP. A viable tank for PVE needs shield bash in most of the top VR dungeons as we have next to no slots to place damage abilities.

Shield Bash do more DPS than any other stamina skill in the game. The skill is broken in PvE and PvP.

Morne30b16_ESO

Calgrissom wrote: »

What kills me about these post is most of this crying 99.9% is about PVP. A viable tank for PVE needs shield bash in most of the top VR dungeons as we have next to no slots to place damage abilities.

1h/ shield skills are supposed to be for tanking not dps. If you use pierce armor it reduces the spell and armor resistance of your opponent by 40%. You may not think you have done much damage BUT the next attacks you AND you're group make will do more damage. You have to look beyond the initial damage you do with that attack and factor in the extra dps that not only you do but your group does because you have reduced the spell and armor resistance over 12 seconds by quite a significant amount. People just look at the damage and forget the rest of what that skill does, its a very powerful skill to use in grouped pve. i love the 1hand/shield skills but shield bashing is a joke and its not needed for dungeons at all.

remember, you have two weapon slots, swap them depending on the situation, if your not taking heavy flak (or your team mates), swap to dual wielding or two handed, when you need to draw the enemy away from others and do some tanking swap to one handed/shield.

or use a combination of class skills and 1 handed/shield skills.