Deadly Bash extremely OP.

Xsorus

Drachenfier wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

Ya'll just wait until this guy reaches end game PvP and finds out just how quickly he will die if he doesn't have any stamina to block, dodge-roll or CC-break.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_BaTpZNpLY&list=UUXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw

Umm yea

I've enjoyed watching your GW2 PvP videos and I look forward to watching more of you ESO PvP videos, I don't think this particular supports your argument very well. Nearly 15 minutes of you bashing sub level 50 opponents doesn't really prove anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWjeWorgRrU

Pretty much all Vr1+ people

You'd kill them a lot faster if you weren'tspamming bash. That's a pretty terrible example to use as bash being overpowered....takes you a ridiculous amount of bashes to kill someone, depletes almost your entire stamina bar. You could burn people down faster than that if you just used your DK abilities. Like that other guy pointed out, Sorcs can do what your'e doing in 2-3 abilities.

Frankly, I think you're going out of your way to try and make it look OP when it obviously isn't.

lol....and yet, I'm pretty much stomping on everyone I see left and right.... including those Sorcs you're whining about.

AS for burning people down with your Dk abilities, there is no DK ability that hits harder then Bash with Bash Glyphs, i don't know what you're smoking...I realize that you want to abuse this ability and think its not overpowered..But a blind person can see this is overpowered.

Mercurio

This is now nerfed according to PTS notes.

Maverick827

Mercurio wrote: »

This is now nerfed according to PTS notes.

And so it begins. Let the PvP cry train to nerf town ruin PvE in another MMO.

Ralathar44

Maverick827 wrote: »

Mercurio wrote: »

This is now nerfed according to PTS notes.

And so it begins. Let the PvP cry train to nerf town ruin PvE in another MMO.

From the reading of the note it sounds like it was getting higher damage than intended with the enchanting glyph. This matches with what many of the comments here have said including the guy trying to get the actual ability nerfed lol. When two mutually opposed sides agree on something it's usually a strong sign of truth haha.

Unless you can find something stating differently it was only how strong it got with the glyph that was nerfed.

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

Maverick827 wrote: »

Mercurio wrote: »

This is now nerfed according to PTS notes.

And so it begins. Let the PvP cry train to nerf town ruin PvE in another MMO.

The only thing that ruin PvE is people like you defending OP skills.

nhisso

So you get owned in PvP and call for a nerf? *yawn*

dw0011nrb19_ESO

Where we are back again at the topic: Tanks are able to deal dmg in this game. Deadly bash helps them to do so, while the majority of the 1h+shield skills deal very tiny dmg.

Drachenfier

It's not overpowered, and its the only damaging skill available to the 1h and shield line. If anything, they could just increase the stamina cost. I still fail to see how the guy taking 14 bashes to kill people thinks he's "owning it up".

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

nhisso wrote: »

So you get owned in PvP and call for a nerf? *yawn*

I play as DK 1h+shield - Dual Wield. If you don't believe me I can send you a screen when you want.

dw0011nrb19_ESO wrote: »

Where we are back again at the topic: Tanks are able to deal dmg in this game. Deadly bash helps them to do so, while the majority of the 1h+shield skills deal very tiny dmg.

Deadly Bash do more DPS than any other stamina skill in the game. Plus you can interrupt and block while use it. Can you explain the logic of this?.

Drachenfier wrote: »

It's not overpowered, and its the only damaging skill available to the 1h and shield line. If anything, they could just increase the stamina cost. I still fail to see how the guy taking 14 bashes to kill people thinks he's "owning it up".

Yes, It's horribly OP if you compare it with any other weapon skill.

Maverick827

Compared to other 1H+Shield skills, maybe.

ChampionSheWolf

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO wrote: »

Yes, It's horribly OP if you compare it with any other weapon skill.

Compared to which skill? Cause I know I can be just about one shotted at range by a sorcerer with little effort from them where as I have to charge in and get close to use shield bash. And blocking to shield bash also causes our stamina to drain due to the damage we are resisting.

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

Maverick827 wrote: »

Compared to other 1H+Shield skills, maybe.

Better DPS than any other stamina skills (Only sniper do more dps).

cbrown15_ESO wrote: »

Compared to which skill? Cause I know I can be just about one shotted at range by a sorcerer with little effort from them where as I have to charge in and get close to use shield bash. And blocking to shield bash also causes our stamina to drain due to the damage we are resisting.

Compared to any other stamina cost skill in the game. I would like to see a video about sorcerers one shot VR players. If it's true, Zenimax should nerf that skill too.

I think you are enjoying a lot killing people with your shield. You should put away your sword in the bank and use shields in both hands xDDD. I never saw worse comunity in a MMO....... You guys only want kill easily using OP and non skilled abilities. If you like spamming try a hack and slash game......

Maverick827

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO wrote: »

I never saw worse comunity in a MMO.......

I'd say the same thing about people like you.

Drachenfier

esiilola wrote: »

I use shield bash in PvP and I disagree with the OP. It currently does about 200-250 dmg for me (VR1) in PvP. With jewelry enchant to lower its cost I can unload about 15 of them, theoretically 3250 damage. This damage is further reduced by armor and requires the person to stand completely still for 10 seconds or so.

It's strong 1v1, especially against someone with low health. Now here's why it's not overpowered:

1) It's totally blockable. Block reduces its damage by 50%.
2) It's mitigated by armour. You can't shield bash spam someone in heavy armour to death, even if you debuff them first. What's more, you'll be left with 0 stamina to block with afterwards if you try.
3) It's totally irrelevant in group vs. group, as it only does damage to one target.
4) If you block while bashing, anyone attacking you will drain your stamina quite fast. In group PvP you go from full stamina to 0 in about 5 seconds just blocking.
5) Battlefield mobility (speed buff while blocking) does not work. You can simply walk away from someone spamming shield bash with block on. If they don't block, you can stun, knockdown etc. instead.
6) Shield bash spam consumes so much stamina you'll be a sitting duck after. CC break is so expensive it's not doable anymore after bashing some. Also, if someone opens on you and you need to CC break, shield bashing them to death is not possible anymore due to low stamina. Even with veteran stamina pot you can only regain about 400 stamina, enough to survive with block a couple of seconds.

Anyway there's just a few reasons I've encountered in PvP on why shield bash is not that overpowered. The people I can spam to death are those who are below lvl50 and thus have crap for armour in Cyrodiil due to way the scaling works (or doesn't, in this case, was funny having my 1700 armor buff giving 0 in Cyrodiil at low lvl...). With the armour penetration buff granted to all and pierce armour I can effectively make those people have 0 armour. Anyone VR1 or above has their normal stats (ie. their armour buffs work and so on) and thus they are nowhere near as easy to kill.

From another thread, and pretty much spot on. Without shield bash, sword and board weapon line is weak and fairly useless. Every point in this quote is absolutely correct, and anyone with any actual pvp experience knows it.

Drekor

Mercurio wrote: »

This is now nerfed according to PTS notes.

The notes don't really give details... they nerfed the boost from deadly bash and the damage glyphs, which many people don't even use. They also "slightly" increased stamina cost which may not make a big difference.

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

Drekor wrote: »

Mercurio wrote: »

This is now nerfed according to PTS notes.

The notes don't really give details... they nerfed the boost from deadly bash and the damage glyphs, which many people don't even use. They also "slightly" increased stamina cost which may not make a big difference.

I think it's a inexistent nerf.

pignouf

Bash is OP, yes a bit.
BUT, PvP is not a 1vs1 game in ESO. Focus the basher and he will die quickly.
Meanwhile Vampire can kill a raid group alone... But apparently for ZOS it more important to nerf the bash than this.

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

pignouf wrote: »

Bash is OP, yes a bit.
BUT, PvP is not a 1vs1 game in ESO. Focus the basher and he will die quickly.
Meanwhile Vampire can kill a raid group alone... But apparently for ZOS it more important to nerf the bash than this.

All OP skills should be nerfed in order to balance the game. Is shield Bash OP? YES. Are vampire ulti and mist form OP? YES. Then these skills should be nerfed.

The fact that other skills are better than shield bash, does not mean it shouldn't to be nerfed. But I agreed with you, Shield bash isn't the worst problem right now.

What I really hate about shield bash is the fact that is a non sense skill. The skill with higher damage in one hand + shield tree, can not be a defensive skill.

I mean "defensive skill" because you are blocking while use it.

Plus looks awfull to see a guy spamming this s**t. Is totally unrealistic.

cromica81_ESO

Lol its unrealistic? It s a game for *** sake from this point on I can't take anything you say seriously. You probably complain about stupid *** because it breaks your immersion to lol

ChampionSheWolf

Unrealistic? In what sense of the word, in the fact that phalanxes would do this along with their spears, or that is exactly what they did in 300, bashed the crap out of people with their shields... or you know any realistic battle that whiners who think they should pwn 1v1 all the time, who think that someone using bash only uses bash. If they are only using bash then they are dumb.

And if you got slapped up side the fact with a 3 foot diameter hunk of metal and wood I guarantee you it would hurt. This whole cry that it's OP is from people that think they need to dominate 1v1 against a tank because they are still stuck in the WoW mentality that tanks are suppose to be easy kills.

In the end, people whining about bash are butthurt. I hardly win all the time with it, and it certainly isn't god mode in vet hands because I've beaten them at their own game. But then again only using bash is dumb, if you aren't using other abilities to compliment it, then you shouldn't be trying.

khele23eb17_ESO

cbrown15_ESO wrote: »

Unrealistic? In what sense of the word, in the fact that phalanxes would do this along with their spears, or that is exactly what they did in 300

Did you just mention the 300 movie as an example of realistic combat?

And if you got slapped up side the fact with a 3 foot diameter hunk of metal and wood I guarantee you it would hurt. This whole cry that it's OP is from people that think they need to dominate 1v1 against a tank because they are still stuck in the WoW mentality that tanks are suppose to be easy kills.

And you dont think its from people whod rather have a whole set of effective skills that make tanks fearsome enemies instead?

In the end, people whining about bash are butthurt. I hardly win all the time with it, and it certainly isn't god mode in vet hands because I've beaten them at their own game. But then again only using bash is dumb, if you aren't using other abilities to compliment it, then you shouldn't be trying.

A skill doesnt need to offer god mode to be imbalanced/too strong.

Maverick827

And you dont think its from people whod rather have a whole set of effective skills that make tanks fearsome enemies instead?

If you're satisfied with the patch notes as they are, then you're only looking for a blind Nerf because there has been no compensation or even an acknowledgement of the problem from Zenimax. So there is no "maybe I want tanks to be fearsome without bash" because, as far as we know right now, that reality does not and will never exist.

silent88b14_ESO

Maybe we just can't enjoy anything anymore unless we are volcanically angry.

Therium104

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO wrote: »

Well, I have created a post about it in PvP forum, but now I think this is the correct place to discuss about it.

The passive skill Deadly Bash is simply too good and I think it should be balanced. You can do a lot of damage without consume many stamina. Plus, you are blocking and interrupting while use shield bash. I found this video, please take a look and tell me what do you think.

http://youtu.be/RPoKHYhigII

This has to be one of the most ridiculous attempts to Nerf an ability in a game. If you are not aware all the classes share a few abilities that are OP. So if you want to nerf DK for the sake of balance then I hope you are advocating nerfs to other classes....

The video is meaningless. The level is not max where balance really matters. The end result (i.e. killing things with ease) can be replicated by multiple builds from every class in the game. There is not consideration for range vs. melee. The entire video is a simple, watered down version, of someone who has a basic and biased outlook on the game.

I have been reading this thread. For those who highlight their extensive MMO pvp experience my response is that you being bad in more than one game does not give you any qualifications for recommending balance changes.

L2P and stop whining. 99% of the time these threads are started by low tier, sub performing, players that do not have the ability or intelligence to succeed so whine to create game imbalances in their favor. It is pathetic.

For ESO Devs -> Game after game has been ruined by the developers trying to appease an army of poor players who are extremely biased towards the class they play. Do not use the forums for making balancing decisions because nothing in the forums has value.

Choi

fantom

Bash is really OP and everyone using it knows it. They just defend it here because they like being OP.

I use it all the time in PVE, that's where it's the most powerful actually (since PVP is dominated by Vampires atm). I can clear any group of veteran mobs less than 5 with nothing but shield bash and a few magicka abilities that could be anything.

In fact, I use 2 spaces on my bar for abilities that I literally can't even activate (because they're from other weapon trees) purely for the sake of leveling up those weapon skills. I don't even need a full bar and I never die in veteran content.

Shield bash and shadowy disguise (throw in any class's defensive ability here) and anything short of the huge AOE pulls in some dungeons (6+ mobs) are a piece of cake. Oh, and btw I only have 3 points in the 1H+shield tree, 2 in deadly bash and 1 in a throwaway. It's THAT good.

When a defensive weapon's damage outclasses every other melee weapon's damage AND doesn't even use a single skill slot to do so, it needs to be nerfed. That's really bad game design and terrible for balance.

Anyone that doesn't think shield bash is OP clearly doesn't know how to animation cancel and weave attacks. Bash itself should NEVER be top damage simply because of the way the priority system in this game works and the way it can fit in with no consequence.

Chryos

I'm no pvp expert like you guys, but I've been learning how to keep melee'rs at a distance whilst I range them with arrows. And having alot of stamina for roll dodges has saved me more than once. Roll dodging eats up a massive amount of stamina tho.

Good thread, I learned some stuff.

Rhythmic

Topic occupied by noobs and trolls after nerfing patchnotes was announced.
*yawn*(c)

Valfodr

Confirming Deadly Bash to be extremely imbalance in pvp. What OP's video does not also explain, for those of you 'pro- deadly bash' posters here, is that your target is being interrupted quickly and repeatedly while being 'spammed' with bash to the point it is a permanent stun that you cannot 'break free' from. So not ONLY does it do almost 3x as much damage as a light attack, it's unavoidable hard cc- barring you get hit by another form of cc and can use break free.

The most logical change would be adding an internal cooldown to it.

Not sure why this hasn't been hotfixed already, does not take long to witness its ridiculousness in Cyrodiil .

Valfodr

Gisgo wrote: »

A shield ability that does more damage than a weapon ability (while blocking), interrupts and does not require a skill slot: give it one month and everyone will be running around bashing.

Or fix it now, ffs, before it becomes the elder shields.

This.

It's already happening tbh, the abuse is rampant

Malediktus

I dont believe this skill is OP and I never used shields after leaving the tutorial.