Deadly Bash extremely OP.

Reavan

I wish people would stop defending this.
We all want the game to be better but defending your little op toy contradicts that.

Gisgo

A shield ability that does more damage than a weapon ability (while blocking), interrupts and does not require a skill slot: give it one month and everyone will be running around bashing.

Or fix it now, ffs, before it becomes the elder shields.

Sleepydan

It does more damage than a light and heavy attack with a one handed weapon. Ok. If it didn't it wouldn't be worth the points.

Is it a better stamina dump than critical charge, which does good damage because it always crits, and it heals you if you happen to have critical surge?

Deadly bash spam does respectable damage and negates damage taken because your blocking. It dumps your stamina bar to do both. If your stamina bar isn't getting dumped it's because your not getting attacked, and it doesn't matter that your blocking.

Critical charge buffed with critical surge does respectable damage, heals you, and is a gap closer. It also dumps your stamina.

There is counter play to both strategies.


"But sleepydan you noob critical charge and critical surge are 2 abilities and deadly bash spam is 0 abilities!!!!!"

That's a valid point voice inside my head. While initially I think whatever troll, the people attacking deadly bash are calling it all you need to win so they could have no skills on there bar as far as I care, I take a step back.

That is a difference when there really doesn't need to be.


Make deadly bash a skill morph of something instead of a passive so that it has to be on the bar to be active, exactly like concealed weapon for nightblade. Change nothing about the numbers regarding stamina consumption or damage dealt.
Fixd.

bantad87

Crescent wrote: »

The problem is that this does the damage it does on a tank built character.

1h/shield is not necessarily a tank, lol. I've specced completely for damage as a sword/board. I just prefer the sword/board skills over other weapon sets, and being able to block effectively is a good bonus.

Sword/board focuses on a single opponent, debuffing, and blocking. 2h is burst + aoe + control. Dual wield is DPS + aoe.

Poxheart

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

Ya'll just wait until this guy reaches end game PvP and finds out just how quickly he will die if he doesn't have any stamina to block, dodge-roll or CC-break.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_BaTpZNpLY&list=UUXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw

Umm yea

I've enjoyed watching your GW2 PvP videos and I look forward to watching more of you ESO PvP videos, I don't think this particular supports your argument very well. Nearly 15 minutes of you bashing sub level 50 opponents doesn't really prove anything.

dw0011nrb19_ESO

Kellhus wrote: »

Bash at 45, with a 45 purple shield, is hitting for 180 -- while my base light attack is now over 100.

It is NOT scaling at the same magnitude as my weapon, which is directly going off weapon damage.

Hetzer wrote: »

me bash is about 600 crit.

Love to see a screenshot of this damage.

such a reason to nerve it! omg tanks doing some dmg, no cant be! calm your ***, kids.

MoMoOG

I can't stop laughing about the amount of stupid in this thread. People demanding for a " high damage" ability on a tanking skill line. I think shield bash should also have range of 30 meters cause obviously its not fair that 1h/sword not have ranged attacks as well.

grim6falcon

Nerf Blocking! it beats bash

Xsorus

Poxheart wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

Ya'll just wait until this guy reaches end game PvP and finds out just how quickly he will die if he doesn't have any stamina to block, dodge-roll or CC-break.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_BaTpZNpLY&list=UUXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw

Umm yea

I've enjoyed watching your GW2 PvP videos and I look forward to watching more of you ESO PvP videos, I don't think this particular supports your argument very well. Nearly 15 minutes of you bashing sub level 50 opponents doesn't really prove anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWjeWorgRrU

Pretty much all Vr1+ people

Thechemicals

Its an endgame skill and by then, other people have endgame of their own. It will definately destroy someone who is lowby

Ralathar44

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

Ya'll just wait until this guy reaches end game PvP and finds out just how quickly he will die if he doesn't have any stamina to block, dodge-roll or CC-break.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_BaTpZNpLY&list=UUXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw

Umm yea

I've enjoyed watching your GW2 PvP videos and I look forward to watching more of you ESO PvP videos, I don't think this particular supports your argument very well. Nearly 15 minutes of you bashing sub level 50 opponents doesn't really prove anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWjeWorgRrU

Pretty much all Vr1+ people

Hey look, you can combo Damage over Time abilities with Deadly Bash and make it look stronger than it is while you stamina dump half your bar on a single target!! Your cheater debuff bar gives you away even in the heaviest combat. You are using Searing Strike and Inferno on all enemies you are bashing. So that's the DPS of 3 separate abilities combined.

In seriousness though, the Ardent Flame line is good. You want to make a really serious proof video remove everything from your bar but shield charge and THEN show us.

If the damage is really high enough to complain about it can stand on it's own. I hate when people make dishonest BS videos.

dw0011nrb19_ESO

Cheater? Lol he is doing what he is doing.

Ralathar44

dw0011nrb19_ESO wrote: »

Cheater? Lol he is doing what he is doing.

1. Your statement neither supports nor denys anything. It is literally a statement that says nothing and is thus worthless.

2. The ability to see buffs/debuffs on an opponent in PVP is an advantage people without the add-on do not have and it DOES make a difference. It can aid greatly in the decision making process situationally. Thus why I consider it to be an unfair advantage.

But this thread is not about that...for the purposes of this thread it just makes it easy to see him try and make deadly bash look more deadly than it is with DOT abilities.

3. He's still showing a misleading video of him using DOT moves to make it look like he is doing more damage with bash than he is actually doing.

Xsorus

A. that's not inferno, that's Cinder Storm

B. Are you implying that Unstable Flame, which crits for around 270 on its opening hit, then over the course of 11 seconds, does around 300-400 more damage is equivalent to the Bashes i'm doing every 0.5 seconds for 300-500 damage depending on critical hits?

C. Did you just call Foundry Tactical Combat Mod cheating? Rofl...

cubansyrusb16_ESO

*Watches 8 bashes kill someone*

*enters PvP on my sorc*

* 2-3 shots someone*

*watches video again*

*laugh's*

Ralathar44

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

B. Are you implying that Unstable Flame, which crits for around 270 on its opening hit, then over the course of 11 seconds, does around 300-400 more damage is equivalent to the Bashes i'm doing every 0.5 seconds for 300-500 damage depending on critical hits?

I've done scarier damage on my level 25 bow spec Dragon Knight, dropping veterans in seconds from 20+ meters. I can only imagine what terror's I'll be able to unleash when I'm veteran ranks in good gear. I still have to bow to the might of some nightblade and sorc builds out there that can vape people in half the time of me though.

The only thing scary about your build is Magma Armor because that ability is totally overpowered in PVP . My Bow knight has that as well and you can sit there in the middle of 10 players laughing for 15 seconds.


Makes sense you'd think this was OP though. Considering your using abilities that you yourself say are doing much less damage and you even morphed them into their more damaging forms.

If you were really making any sort of powerful build you'd stop relying on ambushing and magma armor if things go south. If you think Unstable Flames and Cinder Storm are not doing worthwhile damage you should replace Pierce Armor/unstable flames with Burning breath (AOE -40% armor + damage), and Eruption (disorient) instead of the piddly damage from cinder storm. This leaves you any number of good abilities to sub into your free slot like Dragon's Blood.


You're just another player who doesn't really understand the game and found something that is easy to play so you think it's OP. The reality is this is just a one trick pony build that isn't really powerful at all (outside of Magma Armor and Ash Cloud )

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

WTF!!!!! Are you serious??? Really don't you see why the skill is OP???

- Best DPS stamina cost skill.
- Very LOW cost if you compare it with any other skill.
- You are blocking and interrupting while doing an insane damage.
- Its no required a skill bar slot.

Plus looks horrible to see a guy spamming shield bash. Its a joke.

I would rework this skills and remove the +100% bonus dmg and add a 2 seconds stun if you interrupt someone casting an skill.

Andy22

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO wrote: »

- You are blocking and interrupting while doing an insane damage.

The damage never was "OP", but since the base cost of a bash are so cheap using the special "reduced bash cost" enchants makes this very attractive to use, even if the enchants itself are bugged and only give 50% of the stated reduction.

Thats simple math, since reducing a 400 sta skill down to 350 is rather useless compared to lower a 90 sta skill down to 40. Thats because i noticed that if u have high sta regen from other equip/skills or a templar sta buff and combine this with bash cost reduction enchants, i can nearly indefinitely spam bash.

Btw this also works the other way, a bash dmg enchant is +20 DMG compared to +5-10 for other enchants. So increasing a 0.6 atk/sec bash from 200 to 260 dmg is a solid 30% increase, while increasing a 1 atk/sec skill from 400 to 440 dmg is just 10%.

My main reason would be the 1H&S line itself, since it makes no sense at all that the best dmg skill in this line is "deadly bash" given the silly animation on top. All u see is a "shield bash" that looks fine and logical to "interrupt" or set someone "off-balance".

It looks absolutely silly to see a guy wielding a sword and a shield that prefers spaming shield bash, rather than using his sword. So fix the 1H&S line and rework a skill/morph so u can deal dmg with it.

I would like a very small frontal cone "cleave/slashing" skill that can hit 1-2 targets, at low sta cost with medium dmg. Maybe add effects like 2h to it so it can result in bleed/knockback whatever, but make them inferior to 2h.

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

Andy22 wrote: »

My main reason would be the 1H&S line itself, since it makes no sense at all that the best dmg skill in this line is "deadly bash" given the silly animation on top. All u see is a "shield bash" that looks fine and logical to "interrupt" or set someone "off-balance".

It looks absolutely silly to see a guy wielding a sword and a shield that prefers spaming shield bash, rather than using his sword. So fix the 1H&S line and rework a skill/morph so u can deal dmg with it.

THIS!!!!! is the best thing I have read in the thread. Completely agree.

I am not asking 1h + shield nerf (I use it and I love it in all games). I don't think 1h + shield only should be able to tank. I only want that a defensive skill don't be the best source to do dmg. It is ridiculous.

Ralathar44

Andy22 wrote: »

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO wrote: »

- You are blocking and interrupting while doing an insane damage.

The damage never was "OP", but since the base cost of a bash are so cheap using the special "reduced bash cost" enchants makes this very attractive to use, even if the enchants itself are bugged and only give 50% of the stated reduction.

Thats simple math, since reducing a 400 sta skill down to 350 is rather useless compared to lower a 90 sta skill down to 40. Thats because i noticed that if u have high sta regen from other equip/skills or a templar sta buff and combine this with bash cost reduction enchants, i can nearly indefinitely spam bash.

Btw this also works the other way, a bash dmg enchant is +20 DMG compared to +5-10 for other enchants. So increasing a 0.6 atk/sec bash from 200 to 260 dmg is a solid 30% increase, while increasing a 1 atk/sec skill from 400 to 440 dmg is just 10%.

My main reason would be the 1H&S line itself, since it makes no sense at all that the best dmg skill in this line is "deadly bash" given the silly animation on top. All u see is a "shield bash" that looks fine and logical to "interrupt" or set someone "off-balance".

It looks absolutely silly to see a guy wielding a sword and a shield that prefers spaming shield bash, rather than using his sword. So fix the 1H&S line and rework a skill/morph so u can deal dmg with it.

I would like a very small frontal cone "cleave/slashing" skill that can hit 1-2 targets, at low sta cost with medium dmg. Maybe add effects like 2h to it so it can result in bleed/knockback whatever, but make them inferior to 2h.

You bring up some valid points. This suggests that the issue may not be bash itself but rather how some enchants interact with bash. Since anyone jumping on the bash bandwagon would without a doubt be using these enchantments the results are being quite skewed by things outside of the skill itself.

(I agree with you that shield bashing repeatedly looks stupid personally but an entire super-hero was based on this concept, as well shield bashing in IRL combat can actually be very effective even multiple times in a row. Especially on a lightly armored opponent.)

Though to be honest it's still a far cry from top tier.

Lynx7386

I only want that a defensive skill don't be the best source to do dmg. It is ridiculous.

Nothing about deadly bash is defensive, so I dont get how you can call it a defensive skill. It does not provide increased damage mitigation or reduce damage taken, it's entirely offensive in nature.

I'm thinking the real issue here has more to do with the enchantment stacking than the passive.

Kalston

This is a very typical problem in games that have no cooldowns and rely on ressource costs: an ability that is fast, does great damage and has a low ressource cost is absolutely and undeniably OP. I should know, I got a 1h&shield character as well.

That being said I think bash (for all classes) should just do damage when actually interrupting something, that way you don't make the passive useless either.

Veakoth

Another idiotic shield bash thread, your worried about a useless build that does all its dmg in the first 4 seconds and then its more useless. Also, there are nightblade builds that can kill from range nearly instantly. Stop linking video's of higher lvl vets killing lowbies it got old faster than the complaining about shield bash. Only noobs die to it, learn how to counter cause its not *** hard.

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

Veakoth wrote: »

Another idiotic shield bash thread, your worried about a useless build that does all its dmg in the first 4 seconds and then its more useless. Also, there are nightblade builds that can kill from range nearly instantly. Stop linking video's of higher lvl vets killing lowbies it got old faster than the complaining about shield bash. Only noobs die to it, learn how to counter cause its not *** hard.

Please tell me how you counter shield bash playing as melee character. I'm very curious about how you deal it while use DW or 2H.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I only want that a defensive skill don't be the best source to do dmg. It is ridiculous.

Nothing about deadly bash is defensive, so I dont get how you can call it a defensive skill. It does not provide increased damage mitigation or reduce damage taken, it's entirely offensive in nature.

I'm thinking the real issue here has more to do with the enchantment stacking than the passive.

Yes, Isn't a defensive skill but this makes no sense to do a lot more damage using a "defensive weapon" (Shield) than using a offensive weapon (Sword). Shields were used to avoid attacks/arrows and only used it as offensive weapons to break enemies defenses.

Shield Bash should be a skill to break defenses like it was in skyrim and not the best source of dmg in 1h+shield skill tree.

Andy22

Veakoth wrote: »

Another idiotic shield bash thread, your worried about a useless build that does all its dmg in the first 4 seconds and then its more useless.

Maybe thats the case in PvP using bash dmg enchants, in PvE i can do like 15-30 bash's in a row before running out of sta using cost reduction enchants. The variation depends on your sta regen and lvl.

Methuselah

andy22 wrote:

Maybe thats the case in PvP using bash dmg enchants, in PvE i can do like 15-30 bash's in a row before running out of sta using cost reduction enchants. The variation depends on your sta regen and lvl.

No, it's the same for PvP. Just had a sorc Bash me at LEAST 15 times while casting crystal shard. stunlock and interrupt. He was able to do this so many times because i have 2k+ spell def and armor and almost 3khp. It's pretty messed up how fast he was able to do it. (cancel animation) Thats why ppl make animation HACKS. Because its not designed that way. Anyone who says different, dosen't want his new toy taken away.

Xsorus

Ralathar44 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

B. Are you implying that Unstable Flame, which crits for around 270 on its opening hit, then over the course of 11 seconds, does around 300-400 more damage is equivalent to the Bashes i'm doing every 0.5 seconds for 300-500 damage depending on critical hits?

I've done scarier damage on my level 25 bow spec Dragon Knight, dropping veterans in seconds from 20+ meters. I can only imagine what terror's I'll be able to unleash when I'm veteran ranks in good gear. I still have to bow to the might of some nightblade and sorc builds out there that can vape people in half the time of me though.

The only thing scary about your build is Magma Armor because that ability is totally overpowered in PVP . My Bow knight has that as well and you can sit there in the middle of 10 players laughing for 15 seconds.


Makes sense you'd think this was OP though. Considering your using abilities that you yourself say are doing much less damage and you even morphed them into their more damaging forms.

If you were really making any sort of powerful build you'd stop relying on ambushing and magma armor if things go south. If you think Unstable Flames and Cinder Storm are not doing worthwhile damage you should replace Pierce Armor/unstable flames with Burning breath (AOE -40% armor + damage), and Eruption (disorient) instead of the piddly damage from cinder storm. This leaves you any number of good abilities to sub into your free slot like Dragon's Blood.


You're just another player who doesn't really understand the game and found something that is easy to play so you think it's OP. The reality is this is just a one trick pony build that isn't really powerful at all (outside of Magma Armor and Ash Cloud )

Rofl... As someone with almost 50 in Bow and who dropped it because it was terrible compared to 1hd shield I don't know who you're kidding.. Your level 25 Bow spec DK is dropping Veterans? Rofl... You realize that I crit mobs for 1500 from behind right with bash?

Also I don't use Cinder for the damage, I use it because it has a nasty snare attached to along with a 30% miss rate debuff which is absolutely brutal in fights..I'm certainly not going to replace it with Burning Breath which is blah in comparison to both Pierce Armor and unstable Flames, and sure hell wouldn't replace it with Eruption (The only spell Cinder gets replaced with is Burning Talons)

And you're level 25 dude..You know absolutely jack about the game.

Come back to me when you're out of the starter area's

Ralathar44

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Rofl... As someone with almost 50 in Bow and who dropped it because it was terrible compared to 1hd shield I don't know who you're kidding.. Your level 25 Bow spec DK is dropping Veterans? Rofl... You realize that I crit mobs for 1500 from behind right with bash?

I drop veterans, if bow is as bad as you say I must be magic lol.

Also I don't use Cinder for the damage, I use it because it has a nasty snare attached to along with a 30% miss rate debuff which is absolutely brutal in fights..I'm certainly not going to replace it with Burning Breath which is blah in comparison to both Pierce Armor and unstable Flames, and sure hell wouldn't replace it with Eruption (The only spell Cinder gets replaced with is Burning Talons)

It seems your knowledge is lacking. Eruption is one of the morphs of ash cloud. Cinder is the morph that adds in the DOT damage, Eruption is the morph that causes a 2 second disorient in an AOE when it is cast. The base ability, ash cloud, already has the 70% snare and 30% miss chance built in. So basically you choose piddly AOE damage over a 2 second mezz on anyone not taking damage at the time, AOE CC.

Unstable Flame is doing some extra piddly damage because you are not built for it and the only reason it's even worth using at all is the animation cancel, but otherwise it's basically a wasted slot on the bar.

Pierce Armor uses stamina which you need for your shield bashing, defense, and break frees. The only reason it's on your bar is because of the armor debuff because you are doing piddly spell damage so the spell debuff doesn't make much of a difference.

Burning Breath does this armor debuff in an aoe using your magicka bar which you rarely utilize. It's also a cone so even if you disoriented people in an AOE with proper positioning you will not be breaking the 2 second mezz. It does half the damage of Unstable flame but does it to multiple targets. It has an 8 second debuff duration instead of piercing armor's 12, but your fight will be decided within that time frame easily.

By substituting Burning Breath for those two skills you free up a slot for some of the CC or buffing skills that do not need high magicka to function well. Petrify is another nice AOE CC, heck even reflective scale would be useful.

These would all give you much more mileage out of your unused magicka bar as well without sacrificing your ability to kill that single target by any significant amount as you have only lost half the damage of Searing Touch and the piddly damage from Cinders by making these substitutions.

It would also make you a much better team player with Eruption, Burning Breath, and Petrify vs your insignificant contributions to your faction farming solos and duos (unless magma armor is up).

And you're level 25 dude..You know absolutely jack about the game.

Come back to me when you're out of the starter area's

Served.

tossop

give some time to zenimax, they sure have good amount work about other fixes, i am sure, that some changes to shield bash coming later . I still think, that shield bash have some imbalance issues to damage/stamina ratio. Is there any other skill, magicka or stamina based that cost 100 mag/stam and deal 300-500 dmg? 1/4 resources/damage ratio.

Andy22

tsopoci wrote: »

Is there any other skill, magicka or stamina based that cost 100 mag/stam and deal 300-500 dmg? 1/4 resources/damage ratio.

Bash reduced by enchants has around a 3-4 dmg/sta ratio. This is very good compared to other skills, but to answer your question most damage over time skills have better ratios. If u factor in hitting multiple enemies with some ae skills they also often have better ratios.