PTS Update 46 - Feedback Thread for New Item Sets

ZOS_Kevin

This is the official feedback thread for the new item sets and Mythic items. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Were there any sets you felt were over or under powered compared to current offerings in the live game?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

Varana

Someone (can't have been much more than one person) must have really loved those changes to Light/Heavy Attacks that were proposed and killed dead in PTS back in early 2020. And after being terribly sad for five years, they're now filled with joy and happiness that they're able to bring them back in form of a Mythic item.

madmufffin

All of the trial sets seem extremely underwhelming. Surely we can get those tweaked to actually be considered in raid comps?

MurkyWetWolf198

The main post has no values attached for Weapon/Spell Damage, Critical Rating, Armor, etc. on the new item sets, so it’s really hard to tell how valuable they are. Can this be fixed?

MoonPile

Mythic: Mad God's Dancing Shoes:

Tbh I'm not really sure what's going on when wearing these (the effects could be clearer maybe?) but they're fun! I like the vfx, butterflies, etc.

Also PLEASE make a style page of these or similar! I'd love poulaines like this even when not wearing the mythic.

tomofhyrule

Old item sets, but there's not place for that:

So... why the Class locks on the Archive sets anymore?

I get that your parent Class should be the one that is curated as you run through; that's not a problem. But if Subclassing is allowing us to swap out Class lines with lines from a different Class, why can't we use the sets that go with the Class lines we have instead of the ones we don't? After all, if a DK trades off the Earthen Heart line, then what use is Basalt-Blood to them since they don't have the skill line to proc it. And what if a Templar picks up that line, now they can't use the set for it?

It would be better to just unlock them for everyone at this point. Some (like Reawakened Hierophant) have unique 2-4 piece bonuses that people could also use if they wanted to in a non-5-piece-build. Others (like Pyrebrand) don't technically call for a specific skill line.

Also, UNLOCK THE STYLES. The fashions were available for everyone to preview in U40, and then U41 locked them and put the permaglow on them. Please put them back the way they were in U40 so anyone could wear any of them. The only argument that could possibly be made was "but muh Class identity!" and that's no longer a factor.

ZhuJiuyin

Harmony in Chaos:
Completely disregarding the actual game situation, there is almost no opportunity to click synergy once every 10 seconds, and 430 points of damage is not enough for players to choose this set. By comparison, Peace and Serenity provides a fully passive 460 damage and recovery buff, while Siroria provides 630 points.

Recovery Convergence:
30 seconds of cooldown is too long, and why would I waste the 5-piece bonus to do something that Symphony of Blades (2 sets) and Grand Rejuvenation (2 sets) can do?

Kazpian's Cruel Signet:
Since the base damage is so low and the 6 second delay is so long, even the 33% damage increase isn't enough to justify choosing this set, and when you use area direct damage once, only 1 target will get the Sword. And apart from Cephaliarch's Flail used by Arc, almost no other class has the ability to spam area direct damage.

Dolorous Arena:
Maybe there is a chance to replace Alkosh, which is the only set in this trial that people will be motivated to farm.

Renato90085

not sure where can i post
but all Dwarven Spider mount now sometime rider levitate in sky

MurkyWetWolf198

Trial sets feel really weak

Argodynamics

(First of, English is not my main language so expect a lot of mistakes/typos here)

Especially about new trial sets, they are pretty underwhelming.

Talking first about the damage oriented sets: 1) First of, the light set, Harmony in Chaos, it has a mechanic with synergy uses, so clearly group play oriented, but for a trial set I would wait for something that's useful playing with others, but for everyone that understand more on this, this set just do not worth it. Almost every synergy in game is single use, with some few exceptions that come in mind like Orbs from Undaunted and Cleansing Ritual from Templars that everyone can use, and you have some with 3 uses like Fulminating Rune from Arcanists. If I'm not wrong, every other synergy is single use and would need a recast so someone else would be able to activate it. The problem with this set is not only the minigame to keep stacks, since it can happen to not have a synergy available due to someone else using it, the problem also consistis that the full stacks bonus is very weak if taking all the interference you can have in consideration. And it's not a simple mini game either, because another detail on this is time management, and again for people that know more details on synergies, everyone have a 20 seconds cooldown after using a synergy so you can use it again. You can't just burn every synergy you see to stack it faster, be selfish and take every synergy first, you might end with no other synergy to refresh the effect and keep stacks. You already have a better and not complicated option than this for trial sets, just use Yandir's Might, and you don't even need use the second proc to make it better, and yet people don't use Yandir's. Anyway, at least for organized groups you want to leave synergies for who is using Alkosh, and for more casual groups we have people that don't even know what is and why to use synergies.

2) The second one, the medium set Kazpian's Cruel Signet. Starting with the fact that ZOS is gutting Azureblight Reaper and organized groups are very damaged by this change, Kazpian's Cruel Signet would looks like it's coming to be the new option, but it's just not. Just looking at tooltips, with only one affected target by this set, when it procs, it does half of the damage of one affected target by Azureblight, and it would take 3 more affected targets, so 4, to hit as hard as Azureblight, but the later scales a lot better with more targets in the range of the explosion. It starts to look bad here, but it's worse. Kazpian's Cruel Signet's proc takes 6 seconds, and with everyone with the right skill setup you can manage Azureblight to proc around it, but since Azureblight have a cooldown in between procs of 1 second, so on paper, you still have explosions every second if you have enough targets, so it just takes more time to start melting everything.

Looking at this new medium trial set, there is something else that comes in mind: Another set that scales with more affected anemies but can't crit, have poor base damage, and poor scaling. We know what is happening here. To avoid unintended massive damage on PvP, where you can affect a really big group of enemies at once, you're just balancing it in the way it won't be sooo powerful on PvP. But PLEASE ZOS, it's a set that comes from highly group PvE focused content, make it interesting and worth it for PvE content. As you did with Azureblight, just make it to not affect players, or just cap it for PvP zones. You have battle spirit as condition for some few sets already, just use it. It's pretty sad to look at sets from dungeons and trials and feel like they have way more applicability on PvP than PvE.

About the support sets, I know we have better and less complicated options that covers those effects well. I heard from tanks that the heavy set yet seems to be useful, but the light one looks like a complete waste as resources are not a problem on PvE. There are other trial sets that also gives resources back to the group, yet people don't use them.



But, suggestions. Ideas that comes in mind that can make damage oriented sets to feel better for PvE:

1) The medium one, Kazpian's Cruel Signet, as example, you don't even need to buff damage to compare with Azureblight, just make it to proc faster as more targets you have affected with a sword above their heads, capping it for every 1 or 2 seconds, because 6 seconds for trash encounters is too long, and for boss fights, minor enemies also die way to quickly to worth it. I don't know about numbers and balancing, it just make the interaction more interesting, and PLEASE make it to worth it for PvE. It's a trial set too, it's not as easy to collect as Azureblight, should be more useful even after nerfing Azure...

2) The light one, Harmony in Chaos, due to the synergies mechanic and the fact that more than one person using it can make this set even worse to use, make it so once someone using the set activates a synergy, it gives a stack or refresh at max for everyone else using it. The max stack buff is weak but imo you don't need to increase the amount of Weapon and Spell damage it gives per stack, but to worth it, you can make it really interesting adding an unique buff to the whole group that becomes stronger when you have more than one person activating synergies while using this set. Example: first person use a synergy and the group get a buff, after certain time if someone else activates the set, a new more valuable effect is added, and third time a new more valuable effect is added. You can make this unique buff unable to refresh or something else that can balance it, idk. It's using synergies mechanic so why not make players to have synergy between them. It can be either rewarding for players in harmony or a chaos to get the max unique buff effect.

Those are just examples to how make them more interesting and interactive imo. I know not everyone will think the same, so maybe designing something more thematic about the new trial, because yeah I'm not a designer, but they need to worth it. The way they are now they feel so generic and bland, no creativity involved, idk.

Again, suggestions for PvE gameplay. It's a set that we get only from PvE content, we can't buy it from vendors, so it should be good for PvE content. Blocking creativity and good performance just because PvP... Just make the effects act different or be way weaker when battle spirit is active, as ZOS should be doing for long now.



Also as suggestions were made based on meta and group play, for those that say not everything needs to be meta, or just say don't play meta, it's just not about it. Focusing on group PvE where I play mostly, if I'm doing group content, for sure I'll try my best and I'll try to have the best options to help my group and adapt on our needing, and imo it's a fair share to hope that everyone is helping with their best to achieve a group goal. If people want to play their RP builds, they already do it in overland and normal dungeons where no one really care about their gear. And lets be honest, most players seems to avoid DLC dungeons and trials anyway, even worse when it comes to vet content, it's a common comment. So why not make this content and sets interesting for those that like it. Now back to the new sets, to have diversity on the meta scene, ZOS should design sets that perform better in certain situations. Right now the balance is done in the way that everything feels the same at the end, or just out performing for a little. It's not like everything needs to feel equal on every situation, a single differential is enough to make it worth not using always the same setup every boss, because at this point there is no reason to add more sets to the game if everything is the same. Example: multi proc activation bug gave Null Arca this spot for niche situations but ZOS fixed it to the intended effect... And to give ZOS another exemple, on Helldivers 2, Arrowhead released a armor effect that should improve primary weapon performance but it had a bug and was affecting even secondary and support weapons, and the community loved it. So what did they do? It was not game breaking, they made it a feature instead. Null Arca bug wasn't gaming breaking ZOS. But at least you tried to adjust it this patch, yet I think it does not worth it since it can hit something else that is not the main target.

Enough of side talk, and to conclude, I still hope you can do something about the trial sets and make them interesting. They really need more creativity, more than some bland risk/reward mechanic, and right now a very weak reward.

Major_Mangle

Ring – Monomyth Reforged
1 – While in combat and on your Primary Weapon gain Major Force, Minor Berserk, and Minor Vulnerability
While in combat and on your Secondary Weapon gain Major Protection, Minor Vitality, and Minor Timidity..

The trade-off you gain from this mythic is laughable and should be severely harsher if you want to keep the buffs it gives. My suggested change is to change the minor vulnerability to major, and either add major timidity to the game or prevent ult regeneration completely while on the backbar.

From a PvP PoV it´s way too strong and you essentially have major force at will without any real downside. Minor Timidity is barely noticeable and isn´t enough of a "kiss-curse" to justify this mythic being as strong as it is.

ZhuJiuyin

Tide-Born Wildstalker does not seem to correctly provide 12% damage done to monsters. According to CMX records, the set only provides 7-8% damage done to monsters at most.

Lykeion

I hope to see further buffs to Tide-born. Considering it only boosts direct damage, this set has the potential to be key in helping non-Arcanist classes compete with Arcanists—but its current values aren't strong enough to let other classes rival Beam builds. Over the past week on PTS, we've already seen many Beam parses hitting 170k+, while non-Beam builds struggle to reach even 160k+. Given that Tide-born's bonuses only apply to monsters, I believe the devs could afford to give it more aggressive numbers. At the very least, it should match Deadly's 15% bonus.

RlyDontKnow

Lykeion wrote: »

I hope to see further buffs to Tide-born. Considering it only boosts direct damage, this set has the potential to be key in helping non-Arcanist classes compete with Arcanists—but its current values aren't strong enough to let other classes rival Beam builds. Over the past week on PTS, we've already seen many Beam parses hitting 170k+, while non-Beam builds struggle to reach even 160k+. Given that Tide-born's bonuses only apply to monsters, I believe the devs could afford to give it more aggressive numbers. At the very least, it should match Deadly's 15% bonus.

Non-beam builds also hit 170k+ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWOozZzEbPY
The problem isn't beam, it's assassination and null arca.

master_vanargand

RlyDontKnow wrote: »

The problem isn't beam, it's assassination and null arca.

Maybe "Tentacular Dread" and "Writhing Runeblades" are just too powerful.
Arcanist is overpowered. This video proves it.

master_vanargand

Slimecraw: Separated this set's 1 piece Critical Chance into the 2 piece, so it is no longer stronger than other 1 piece sets that grant the bonus.

Slimecraw set is too weak. So I'd like to see a buff.
For example, if Slimecraw set have "2 item : Major Savagery and Prophecy", he can remove "Expert Hunter" and "Magelight" from the slot in PvP.

Meldor_Greenwood

Pls change Azureblight, so when it has accumulated enough stacks, everyone wearing it gets an explosion. So the proc rate is consistent, if people contribute the same amount of stacks, rather than diminishing with people wearing it.

ZhuJiuyin

Is Unleashed Ritualist being adjusted in U46?
I saw two different sets of numbers for live and pts, and it seems that the improvement on PTS is greater, but I don't seem to find any relevant explanation in the patch notes.

in live

in pts

Zyaneth_Bal

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Is Unleashed Ritualist being adjusted in U46?
I saw two different sets of numbers for live and pts, and it seems that the improvement on PTS is greater, but I don't seem to find any relevant explanation in the patch notes.

in live

in pts

If you mean why then it must be because it’s too weak on live. And on pts it’s not worth using either. But then why nerf curse, it’s odd. Unless ritualist was buffed by accident?

ZhuJiuyin

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

If you mean why then it must be because it’s too weak on live. And on pts it’s not worth using either. But then why nerf curse, it’s odd. Unless ritualist was buffed by accident?

My question is, there doesn't seem to be any changes written about Unleashed Ritualist in the Patch Notes. This is not the only case in this PTS cycle, as the Slimecraw change before this was not mentioned either, but was added to the Patch Notes after other players asked about it.

Pinja

Kazpian's Cruel Signet looks like a cool set but does too little damage. Tarnished does close to as much damage that this set does to one target with a 198% boost at 6 six targets, but is much easier to keep up and apply. Unless there is an intention to keep good Pvp sets out of trials, this one could use a boost.

YandereGirlfriend

Harmony in Chaos is a neat concept but the tuning is superbad.

The Weapon and Spell Damage is quite measly compared to the effort required to actually maintain stacks of the set buff. Unless your entire raid comp is bending over backward to facilitate the set (which is outlandish), then the uptime on the buffs will be quite paltry indeed.

The Weapon and Spell Damage per stack needs to be drastically increased. Given how difficult it is to build and maintain the stacks in dynamic content, it needs to be something like 200 Weapon Damage per stack.

Otherwise, why would anyone ever use this set when they can simply slap on something else that is significantly easier for both the individual wearer as well as their group to use?

YandereGirlfriend

Additionally, Dolorous Arena dropping all stacks when Block is dropped is too punishing.

If you need to, for example, Dodge-Roll a boss Heavy Attack because it is a one-shot even through Block, you are losing all stacks of the debuff and will have to commit to 6 more seconds of uninterrupted permablocking in order to gain them back (just in time for another boss heavy to Dodge...).

Rather, it should drop one stack per 2 seconds of dropped Block to have equivalence between gaining and losing stacks. There is plenty of precedent in other sets for this sort of behavior.

Freelancer_ESO

Rakkhat's Voidmantle

I like the idea of light attacks being lower damage and restoring resources and heavy attacks doing more damage and not restoring resources.

However, I think the implementation of it hits some potential issues:

If you are doing lots of Heavy Attacks, you aren't going to actually need the resources that light attacks will provide you with because Heavy Attacks are free. If you aren't doing lots of Heavy Attacks, the item likely is not worth using as it blocks you from having a monster set and blocks you from using another mythic.

On optimized builds it can one shot Overland npcs with heavy attacks without stealth or criting and that might be a bit too much damage for Overland content.

I apologize if I'm behind but last I knew dealing a bit too much damage to other players with Trifocus was still a thing. With an additional 50% Heavy Attack damage you can likely do some incredibly nasty damage to other players. As I don't have friends I can't test it myself to double check but, my guess is you could probably one shot people using this Mythic onto an npc/summon.

TheDefenestrator

Concur with juicing the hell out of Harmony in Chaos.

For its proc condition, you should be rewarded for maintaining uptime on the set. I would consider increasing the spell damage per stack, and decreasing the time between synergies required to maintain uptime (not by a lot)

Major_Mangle

Rakkhat's Voidmantle
Please for all that is holy do not allow this heavy attack damage boost to work against players in PvP. Add "to monsters" in the set description.

Anyone who remembes High Isle with heavy attack gank builds hitting for 40-50k with 0 counterplay will realise how unbalanced this mythic actually is. We already had a dark age in PvP where heavy attack builds (mainly with lightning staffs) was an absolute bane to PvP. We do not need those days to return. Heavy attacks already hits like a truck in PvP with very little investment.

Just add "to monsters" in the mythic description and it will be fine.

Orbital78

Freelancer_ESO wrote: »

Rakkhat's Voidmantle

I like the idea of light attacks being lower damage and restoring resources and heavy attacks doing more damage and not restoring resources.

However, I think the implementation of it hits some potential issues:

If you are doing lots of Heavy Attacks, you aren't going to actually need the resources that light attacks will provide you with because Heavy Attacks are free. If you aren't doing lots of Heavy Attacks, the item likely is not worth using as it blocks you from having a monster set and blocks you from using another mythic.

On optimized builds it can one shot Overland npcs with heavy attacks without stealth or criting and that might be a bit too much damage for Overland content.

I apologize if I'm behind but last I knew dealing a bit too much damage to other players with Trifocus was still a thing. With an additional 50% Heavy Attack damage you can likely do some incredibly nasty damage to other players. As I don't have friends I can't test it myself to double check but, my guess is you could probably one shot people using this Mythic onto an npc/summon.

It would be nice to get a few buffs with it like empower. With my heavy attacks play style I actually casted heal pet and other spells weaved in. Giving significant burst heals. Top DPS was way too low for harder content though. I'm hoping this, along with two bars will bring up it's viability.

Erickson9610

If the purpose of Rakkhat's Voidmantle is to emulate Skyrim's light/heavy attack system, then Heavy Attacks need to cost resources depending on the equipped weapon type.

SkaiFaith

With the introduction of the new Mythic (and subclassing), players are giving suggestions to let Oakensoul still have a good use.
I would suggest giving Oakensoul back Major Berserk and Major Courage.
IF this won't be done, an alternative could be making Berserk and Courage the Major version on Banner Bearer scripts, because as it is now Banner Bearer has only minor resolve as the unique possible affix script for an Oakensoul build since every other affix buff would be redundantly useless, and if a build uses resolving vigor (which already gives minor resolve) an Oakensoul user is losing a possible buff.

Please consider.
Thank you.

Orbital78

Erickson9610 wrote: »

If the purpose of Rakkhat's Voidmantle is to emulate Skyrim's light/heavy attack system, then Heavy Attacks need to cost resources depending on the equipped weapon type.

Did they say that somewhere? I doubt that is what the mythic is about. Hopefully they are just trying to bring heavy attacks up some after the heavy handed nerfs to passives.

Erickson9610

Orbital78 wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

If the purpose of Rakkhat's Voidmantle is to emulate Skyrim's light/heavy attack system, then Heavy Attacks need to cost resources depending on the equipped weapon type.

Did they say that somewhere? I doubt that is what the mythic is about. Hopefully they are just trying to bring heavy attacks up some after the heavy handed nerfs to passives.

I think I was misremembering, due to the initial PTS for the changed Light/Heavy Attack system happening around the time of the Greymoor Chapter, which was basically a Chapter themed around TES V: Skyrim. I suppose it made sense to me that the changes would be to make the combat experience more similar to Skyrim, but in reality those changes were designed to bring the floor and ceiling closer together and to encourage people to use a variety of Light, Medium, and Heavy Attacks.