PTS Update 46 - Feedback Thread for New Item Sets

Maggusemm

The trial sets really need a big buff, else they will be so underperforming that they are not worth slotting.

Orbital78

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Is Unleashed Ritualist being adjusted in U46?
I saw two different sets of numbers for live and pts, and it seems that the improvement on PTS is greater, but I don't seem to find any relevant explanation in the patch notes.

in live

in pts

I think it was stealth buffed, I think maybe skinny or someone mentioned it. It is still not going to be worth using even at 25% probably, unless they buffed pet dmg in other ways maybe.

ZhuJiuyin

Orbital78 wrote: »

I think it was stealth buffed, I think maybe skinny or someone mentioned it. It is still not going to be worth using even at 25% probably, unless they buffed pet dmg in other ways maybe.

Strangely, we still haven't seen any additions or explanations in any patch notes. Compared to the rapid additions of Slimecraw before, Unleashed Ritualist is eerily quiet.

ZhuJiuyin

I'm confused, it seems like a lot of sets were tweaked but not in the patch notes.
The 2 bonus from Maw of the Infernal seems to have been changed to Weapon and Spell Damage on the PTS, rather than Maximum Magicka on lieve.
This is certainly a good change, but why doesn't it appear in the patch notes, along with Unleashed Ritualist?

u45


U46

Erickson9610

I just want to say that I really appreciate the Shared Burden crafted set being added in Update 46. I've wanted a set that automatically revived Companions for a while now, and this one even makes the Companions (and the player) a little bit tankier. I can't wait to use it on Live!

ZhuJiuyin

Kazpian's Cruel Signet's damage is still terrible and has some bugs, Charged Atronach (only procs when landing, not the rest of the damage), Blighted Blastbones, the final explosion damage of Unstable Wall of Elements (which is a direct & area damage), the final explosion damage of Detonating Siphon (again, which is a direct & area damage), and the damage caused by Sorc's Class Script cannot proc this set.

Meldor_Greenwood

For Pillager's Profit it is no longer possible to hit the cap of 20. At full ultimate you'll only reach 10.
Please consider adjusting the cap to the 10, rather than touching the percentage.
This would keep the nerf, while helping the weaker groups utilize the sets full potential.
Else the weaker groups will struggle to reach the high ultimate generation needed, further increasing the gat between the floor and the ceiling.

AmishDefector

How bout dont mess with pillagers profit. At all. There is no need. No one asked for it. It has a 45 second cooldown. In the "top end" this set procs no more than 25 to 30 times per trial. This nerf hits the early to mid game healers the hardest as this helps others get defensive ultimates back faster. We get it, you want us to use the new healing set, but its just not very good for trials. Please revert this change before go live.
Yes this set is used by top end raid groups as well.
Also just a strong recommendation when looking at nerfing core meta sets put the sledgehammer away.

AmishDefector

And then you add in the pearls of ehlnofey nerf. And you've removed the top end of ultigen that you were worried about with pillagers. I for one am not a big fan of throwing horses for major heroism on healer as the channel prevents healing casts. So this change that no one asked for, to me isnt as big of a deal. But then there is no need to nerf pillagers.

BananaBender

Kazpian's Cruel Signet is still just a really bad set. The proc damage is just awful, but as stated in the patch notes it's supposed to me more of a buff set rather than a proc damage set. It still just fails in this regard because of the multiple limitations on this set.

Because you can only get one proc per cast on normal abilities such as Whirling Blades, this means you can get up to 6 swords on targets before the first one expires, losing you the damage buff. So even in a perfect scenario which requires 6 targets who stay alive for an extended period, since if they die you lose your buff, this set is still just worse than Ansuul which gives 7% buff by doing nothing. You do get the proc damage, but this is usually around 1-2% of your damage, making it just barely better than Ansuul (when not taking into account the interrupt buff) in the most optimal situation. In reality I can't think of a single fight where you can actually get value out of this set. In these high mob density fights, majority of the enemies don't live long enough to get the proc on them and then staying alive to actually benefit from the buff.

Even if you use something like jabs or beam to proc the set, you can apply the stacks quicker and you can get to a theoretical maximum of 12 stacks, it's still way too weak, since scenarios where you are continuously fighting against 12 or more targets. Even in this extremely rare scenario it's very slightly better than Tide-Born Windstalker, because of the tiny proc damage you get, and weaker or on par with Deadly Strikes. Not to mention that beam can only hit 6 targets at once making it even more of a pain to try to get everything out of this set.

In short, in it's optimal state this set is still outperformed by Ansuul and especially Coral and fights where this set would perform extremely well, are exceedingly rare (meaning I can't think of any, but I'm sure there are some).

Ideas for improvements:

1. Buff the damage buff it grants. 1% is simply just way too little per target. It's rare to fight more than 3 targets for an extended period making the damage buff from this set 3%. For this set to see any use it would have to outperform Ansuul at the very least, because why would anyone use a set which does the exact same thing than another set but worse? With 3% buff per target it would barely be better than Ansuul in a 3 target fight.
2. Make the proc condition more universal, such as any direct damage. I think this would help it so more builds could even get any use out of this set.
3. Remove the 0.5 second cooldown. This would allow other than beams and jabs to get any practical use out of this set. The set would still be kept in check in terms of power, since you need the targets to stay alive longer to get benefits from the buff (unlike Azureblight).

ZhuJiuyin

Harmony in Chaos is still bad even with Increased the amount of Weapon and Spell Damage, because even in an organized team, it is difficult to continuously activate synergy in a short period of time, not to mention that synergy will be prioritized to tanks or healers,let them use first.
Unless the buff duration is extended to 20 seconds, or an ability similar to Alkosh is provided. For example, after using a synergy ability, it will cause X damage to enemies within X feet in front of it, and increase the player's critical or Weapon and Spell Damage by X points.

carbonwing

It's not specific to this patch, but I frequently wanted to try a mythic item in a build and then unfortunately could not get it, because the lead drop rates are too bad.
Having a job I cannot spend 20+ hours just to farm the leads for every new mythic I like. And it's not fun killing the same delve boss 20+ times and not getting a lead. So with a few exceptions, I just don't use mythics.
And it's not just me, no casual player can invest these ammounts of time. Thus we can't use mythics.

Can you please just give us 100% lead drop rates on all antiquities?

That would make mythics far more accessible and the antiquity system a lot more fun.

Horny_Poney

Recovery Convergence, the new healer set from the trial, is totally useless. Healers don’t need sets that restore ressources, and yet, we get a new one, again.
Useful healer sets are now so rare that, because of the nerf to pillager and pearls, one of the healers is now half naked because we don’t even have something to replace it.
It’s been a while that ZOS sends signals saying that healers are not needed in TESO for most contents.

Kickimanjaro

I'm really not a fan of the neutering of Pillager's Profit. It was a really fun set to use and time right in PvP to support my group.

Ezhh

As someone often playing Pillager/SPC/Pearls healer the nerfs to Pillager and Pearls are beyond all reason to me. They are going to especially hurt mid level groups and also casual groups that don't coordinate well enough to take full advantage of other means of generating ult. Players at the top end will just continue regardless because they have the coordination to push everything to the limit, so we are simply losing a unique and interesting playstyle interaction from Pearls just to hurt mid level and casual groups...

As has been said above as well, useful sets for a healer are pretty rare. We don't want or need sustain sets. There are also extremely few cases where defensive sets are worth considering (just some rare fights like Ansuul HM). What do trial groups even replace Pillager with? Same with mythics... there are not many that are useful for a good healer. This leaves trial healers in a much worse place.

MSattrtand

That was already mentioned in this thread, but I wanted to double-check it, if it wasn't stealthily changed, but no, it wasn't.

The new heavy trial set, Dolorous Arena, drops all the stack if you stop blocking even for a moment. You can't even barswap without losing all the stacks. It's a really bad set design which encourages you to permablock and not even swap your bars.

ZhuJiuyin

Kazpian's Cruel Signet is still terrible, and even with Fatecarver, it's hard to maintain 6 stacks.
According to CMX records
1stack continuous rate is about 94
2stack 90
3stack 64
4stack 48
5stack 19
6stack 3

We can see that a duration of more than 50% is usually 3-4 stacks, which means a 6-8% damage increase. However, for situations that require a lot of range damage, such as LChm, the 8% damage increase is far less than U45's Azureblight.
Either Kazpian's Cruel Signet provides 5% increased damage per stack, or each sword does area damage, otherwise Kazpian's Cruel Signet still has no reason to be used.

YandereGirlfriend

Ezhh wrote: »

As someone often playing Pillager/SPC/Pearls healer the nerfs to Pillager and Pearls are beyond all reason to me. They are going to especially hurt mid level groups and also casual groups that don't coordinate well enough to take full advantage of other means of generating ult. Players at the top end will just continue regardless because they have the coordination to push everything to the limit, so we are simply losing a unique and interesting playstyle interaction from Pearls just to hurt mid level and casual groups...

As has been said above as well, useful sets for a healer are pretty rare. We don't want or need sustain sets. There are also extremely few cases where defensive sets are worth considering (just some rare fights like Ansuul HM). What do trial groups even replace Pillager with? Same with mythics... there are not many that are useful for a good healer. This leaves trial healers in a much worse place.

I agree with you but it also says something about encounter design if defensive buff sets for healers aren't needed in PvE.

Overall, hard healing checks should make a return to restore healing to the heart of the role rather than merely being buff bots.

YandereGirlfriend

MSattrtand wrote: »

That was already mentioned in this thread, but I wanted to double-check it, if it wasn't stealthily changed, but no, it wasn't.

The new heavy trial set, Dolorous Arena, drops all the stack if you stop blocking even for a moment. You can't even barswap without losing all the stacks. It's a really bad set design which encourages you to permablock and not even swap your bars.

Indeed.

This punishing behavior absolutely crushes the set's viability and relegates it to being a troll set for bombing duos in Cyrodiil and nothing more. And the world did not need more troll sets for bombing duos in Cyrodiil. Massive missed opportunity.

EZ changes to turn this set into a staple set:

1. Set ticks at t=0 (when wearer first establishes blocking state) and then again at t=2 and t=4 (so 4 seconds to build max stacks rather than the current 6 seconds, which are built at t=2, t=4, and t=6). This makes it much more responsive to use and easier to recover from if needing to Dodge-Roll a boss Heavy Attack, for example.

2. Stacks drop off at the same rate as they are built (e.g. remove one stack at t=0 [when block state is initially dropped] and then another at t=2 and t=4) rather than removing all stacks instantly as soon as block state is lost for any amount of time.

Ezhh

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Ezhh wrote: »

As someone often playing Pillager/SPC/Pearls healer the nerfs to Pillager and Pearls are beyond all reason to me. They are going to especially hurt mid level groups and also casual groups that don't coordinate well enough to take full advantage of other means of generating ult. Players at the top end will just continue regardless because they have the coordination to push everything to the limit, so we are simply losing a unique and interesting playstyle interaction from Pearls just to hurt mid level and casual groups...

As has been said above as well, useful sets for a healer are pretty rare. We don't want or need sustain sets. There are also extremely few cases where defensive sets are worth considering (just some rare fights like Ansuul HM). What do trial groups even replace Pillager with? Same with mythics... there are not many that are useful for a good healer. This leaves trial healers in a much worse place.

I agree with you but it also says something about encounter design if defensive buff sets for healers aren't needed in PvE.

Overall, hard healing checks should make a return to restore healing to the heart of the role rather than merely being buff bots.

It says a lot about encounter design. The issue is how far apart the floor and the ceiling are when you look at player dps or hps output and so on. A player who is used to healing the hardest content in the game has zero use for help with healing output or defensive buffs in the vast majority of encounters because of the wide range of differences in difficulty between them.

Either way, I don't think it's healthy to have so few useful offensive buff sets for trial healers. (And personally I enjoy managing buff uptimes while healing instead of being a pure heal bot, but that's just personal preference.)

MSattrtand

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

MSattrtand wrote: »

That was already mentioned in this thread, but I wanted to double-check it, if it wasn't stealthily changed, but no, it wasn't.

The new heavy trial set, Dolorous Arena, drops all the stack if you stop blocking even for a moment. You can't even barswap without losing all the stacks. It's a really bad set design which encourages you to permablock and not even swap your bars.

EZ changes to turn this set into a staple set:

1. Set ticks at t=0 (when wearer first establishes blocking state) and then again at t=2 and t=4 (so 4 seconds to build max stacks rather than the current 6 seconds, which are built at t=2, t=4, and t=6). This makes it much more responsive to use and easier to recover from if needing to Dodge-Roll a boss Heavy Attack, for example.

When I read the set description for the first time, I actually thought that it worked somewhat like that, because nothing indicates how we can lose these stacks (apart from them expiring). It looked decent, the bonus is not bad, you have some minigame to uptime the buff. But no. This set has poor wording, so you shouldn't drop the block. And you can't bar-swap since it also drops your block? Really? We've been through this before. Dropping the block while bar-swapping was already fixed a few patches ago.

Was it? In this case, we have another counterintuitive condition of losing the stacks, not just dropping the block. It wasn't? In this case, well, it wasn't fixed, and it's still affecting the gameplay.

Blackrim

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Harmony in Chaos:
Completely disregarding the actual game situation, there is almost no opportunity to click synergy once every 10 seconds, and 430 points of damage is not enough for players to choose this set. By comparison, Peace and Serenity provides a fully passive 460 damage and recovery buff, while Siroria provides 630 points.

Recovery Convergence:
30 seconds of cooldown is too long, and why would I waste the 5-piece bonus to do something that Symphony of Blades (2 sets) and Grand Rejuvenation (2 sets) can do?

Kazpian's Cruel Signet:
Since the base damage is so low and the 6 second delay is so long, even the 33% damage increase isn't enough to justify choosing this set, and when you use area direct damage once, only 1 target will get the Sword. And apart from Cephaliarch's Flail used by Arc, almost no other class has the ability to spam area direct damage.

Dolorous Arena:
Maybe there is a chance to replace Alkosh, which is the only set in this trial that people will be motivated to farm.

Does Kazpin's have a cap on bonus damage (2% per target)?

Blackrim

Freelancer_ESO wrote: »

Rakkhat's Voidmantle

I like the idea of light attacks being lower damage and restoring resources and heavy attacks doing more damage and not restoring resources.

However, I think the implementation of it hits some potential issues:

If you are doing lots of Heavy Attacks, you aren't going to actually need the resources that light attacks will provide you with because Heavy Attacks are free. If you aren't doing lots of Heavy Attacks, the item likely is not worth using as it blocks you from having a monster set and blocks you from using another mythic.

On optimized builds it can one shot Overland npcs with heavy attacks without stealth or criting and that might be a bit too much damage for Overland content.

I apologize if I'm behind but last I knew dealing a bit too much damage to other players with Trifocus was still a thing. With an additional 50% Heavy Attack damage you can likely do some incredibly nasty damage to other players. As I don't have friends I can't test it myself to double check but, my guess is you could probably one shot people using this Mythic onto an npc/summon.

I feel like this set is more so for PvP

Blackrim

BananaBender wrote: »

Kazpian's Cruel Signet is still just a really bad set. The proc damage is just awful, but as stated in the patch notes it's supposed to me more of a buff set rather than a proc damage set. It still just fails in this regard because of the multiple limitations on this set.

Because you can only get one proc per cast on normal abilities such as Whirling Blades, this means you can get up to 6 swords on targets before the first one expires, losing you the damage buff. So even in a perfect scenario which requires 6 targets who stay alive for an extended period, since if they die you lose your buff, this set is still just worse than Ansuul which gives 7% buff by doing nothing. You do get the proc damage, but this is usually around 1-2% of your damage, making it just barely better than Ansuul (when not taking into account the interrupt buff) in the most optimal situation. In reality I can't think of a single fight where you can actually get value out of this set. In these high mob density fights, majority of the enemies don't live long enough to get the proc on them and then staying alive to actually benefit from the buff.

Even if you use something like jabs or beam to proc the set, you can apply the stacks quicker and you can get to a theoretical maximum of 12 stacks, it's still way too weak, since scenarios where you are continuously fighting against 12 or more targets. Even in this extremely rare scenario it's very slightly better than Tide-Born Windstalker, because of the tiny proc damage you get, and weaker or on par with Deadly Strikes. Not to mention that beam can only hit 6 targets at once making it even more of a pain to try to get everything out of this set.

In short, in it's optimal state this set is still outperformed by Ansuul and especially Coral and fights where this set would perform extremely well, are exceedingly rare (meaning I can't think of any, but I'm sure there are some).

Ideas for improvements:

1. Buff the damage buff it grants. 1% is simply just way too little per target. It's rare to fight more than 3 targets for an extended period making the damage buff from this set 3%. For this set to see any use it would have to outperform Ansuul at the very least, because why would anyone use a set which does the exact same thing than another set but worse? With 3% buff per target it would barely be better than Ansuul in a 3 target fight.
2. Make the proc condition more universal, such as any direct damage. I think this would help it so more builds could even get any use out of this set.
3. Remove the 0.5 second cooldown. This would allow other than beams and jabs to get any practical use out of this set. The set would still be kept in check in terms of power, since you need the targets to stay alive longer to get benefits from the buff (unlike Azureblight).

You have to be consider this is being eyed by PvP players and is being adjusted for both PvP and PvE

Blackrim

Horny_Poney wrote: »

Recovery Convergence, the new healer set from the trial, is totally useless. Healers don’t need sets that restore ressources, and yet, we get a new one, again.
Useful healer sets are now so rare that, because of the nerf to pillager and pearls, one of the healers is now half naked because we don’t even have something to replace it.
It’s been a while that ZOS sends signals saying that healers are not needed in TESO for most contents.

This is set is abused in PVP