Population shrinking, PLEASE do something

MISTFORMBZZZ

FelisCatus wrote: »

[snip]

Couldnt agree more.
Its always the same

[edited to remove quote]

Elsonso

For all the attention Cyrodiil has received from ZOS, it might as well be a PVE zone. Over the years, I expect a lot of PVP people have moved on to other games. I have been able to go there many times for some PVE objective (treasure maps, skyshards, etc) and as long as I pick my campaign and stay away from where the PVP action is, no one bothers me. This allowed me to delete my last PVP character quite a while ago.

[edited by ZOS_Icy to remove quote, edited by Elsonso to remove reference to quote.]

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

MISTFORMBZZZ

<snip>

Back to the topic, for me at the moment there is no joy anymore in the game, i dont want to play the game alone and i dont want to replace all my guilds; i wish people come back but at the momebt it doesnt look good.

<snipped removed quote>

Rkindaleft

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSOER1kAeSc

In the last 3 months I've barely logged in outside of a single prog group, and even then a lot of the time we either end up stopping the run early or even just cancelling for the evening because it's nigh-impossible to play properly without a ton of problems.

I posted this in the performance thread a few days ago - this is the aforementioned group in Rockgrove, in the second part of the clip the lag is so bad the curses are freezing in place, the ghosts are trying to glitch back to their old positions, my character can't cast any skills, the flame behemoth is literally phasing in and out of existence. This kind of stuff happens multiple times a night to multiple people in the raid. Almost every single raid nowadays is a dice roll to hopefully get extremely lucky and land in a space where the game doesn't randomly disconnect people multiple times a night or freeze them for 5 seconds at a time.

It just makes the content we like to do unenjoyable and unplayable, and then some people wonder why endgame or PvPers complain the game is bleeding out and there's hardly anyone left to fight or run with.

MorganaLaVey

Elsonso wrote: »

.
From what I can see, ZOS has time.

And thats the problem. I dont want ZOS to fix the game in 5 years i wanted them to fix the game 5 years ago.
Because this is what the game will look like as long as ZOS has time.

Rkindaleft wrote: »

[...] a lot of the time we either end up stopping the run early or even just cancelling for the evening because it's nigh-impossible to play properly without a ton of problems.

[...] the lag is so bad the curses are freezing in place, the ghosts are trying to glitch back to their old positions, my character can't cast any skills, the flame behemoth is literally phasing in and out of existence. This kind of stuff happens multiple times a night to multiple people in the raid. Almost every single raid nowadays is a dice roll to hopefully get extremely lucky and land in a space where the game doesn't randomly disconnect people multiple times a night or freeze them for 5 seconds at a time.

Elsonso wrote: »

I have to think that ZOS is motivated to generate ESO revenue that turns into profit. They can't do this if no one is playing their game and no one is buying Crowns, ESO Plus, and Chapters. If they need ESO to be making a profit, and that is at risk, then we will see them taking action.

How to make profit:
1. Reduce new content in quality and quantity to save money
-Raids & Dungeons are very expensive to create but only played by few players. Does ZOS save more money from not making new raids & dungeons than they lose money from raiders leaving the game ?
2. Dont fix problems to save money
- Fixing Cyrodil is very expensive but only played by few players. Does ZOS save more money from not fixing cyrodil than they lose money from PVPer's leaving the game ?
3. Increese monetization to milk whales who make up most of the income
4. Ignore low-spenders leaving the game

In this case:
Profitable Game =/= Happy Players.

Elsonso wrote: »

You don't seem to have a different position than I do.

I think you are talking about ZOS doing fine, i am talking about players doing fine.

EDIT: Very different position!

Coo_PnT

The community manager at ZoS does not say anything specific. They just repeat that they are working on it and are in the process of addressing it. It is no wonder that complaints are mounting. Try to put it in your own problem. You don't answer anything, you just delete our posts because they are offensive. How is that constructive? And you will delete my posts and ban me from the forum. That's probably fine.

Elsonso

MorganaLaVey wrote: »

In this case:
Profitable Game =/= Happy Players.

Elsonso wrote: »

You don't seem to have a different position than I do.

I think you are talking about ZOS doing fine, i am talking about players doing fine.

Well, first, I am not talking about ZOS doing fine. I really don't care that much about the studio. It is a different story with the developers, and right now, having their boat tied up at the ZOS dock is probably for the best. If the decision is made to shutter ESO, I will be more concerned about the developers that actually make the game, than the fate of the studio and the people who run it.

What I am saying that it looks like ZOS has time to address things, based on the very things that people have said in here. My main disagreement in all of this is with the urgency. I don't think anyone has said anything in here that quantifies the overall game population. Right now, the ESO players lack the knowledge to establish overall urgency. I see a lot of personal anecdotes, and personal desires, but I am not seeing a reason to be heading to the life boats. Certainly, if someone feels better by leaving the game, and they are fine doing that, then it is fine with me.

Players are like a flock of birds, moving from game to game. Rather fickle beings, players generally do not hang around a game longer than their interests are served. They only roost for as long as it serves them, and while some may nest, that is far from the norm. Players need to leave games and move on to other games when the time comes. That is players doing fine.

So, you are right. Very different.

pklemming

I disagree about the flock of birds analogy, we move when we no longer feel wanted by a game. When concerns are never addressed and changes are made that the player populace does not want.

The AB change was the last thing for me. They could have just changed the flag for pvp, but they felt like messing around with a set for no reason, in the same way, they messed around with the nightblade for no reason. I can't get on with a firm who just ignores players concerns and makes changes for changes-sake.

I have been here for 10 years. I am not exactly flighty. I was in Everquest for 13/14 years prior to that.

I will stay in a game, where players are regarded as important to the game, not an annoyance to work around.

Helldir

I've played ESO since beta, albeit with some long breaks every now and then of a year to a year and a half. I started playing ESO because I loved the Elder Scrolls lore that I first encountered in Oblivion. So, I enjoy great, fascinating, and engaging stories with great dialogue spiced up with some (intelligent) humour. ESO was quite good in this regard in the beginning.

The Stories
And this is my problem and has been for quite some time. The stories are none of the above anymore and haven’t been for a long time. The next chapter is as predictable as the one before it. It’s always about some cult trying to take over control in the new region and they need me to save them.

The Dialogue
On top of this there is the dialogue. I understand that maybe ZoS is trying to make it easy for new players to follow along. However, it’s often done at the expense… welp, it’s just done poorly. The dialogue between the player character and the new lead characters always comes out like your character (or the player) is explicitly dumb. It borders on insulting the players’ intelligence. It doesn’t make any sense in relation to my character either. Do they (the new lead characters) not know just how many regions I have already saved? How many deities I have been up against? They hire me because I’m apparently the real deal but apparently, I’m also not. The dialogue writing quality has really become quite poor.

The Grind
I also haven’t picked up the new scripting style thing. I’m sure it’s fun, when you have it. From my understanding looking at the available info on the Great Internet, it requires one of the most tedious and boring grinds to get it since the Psijic Order skill line grind and is just about as useful, so I don’t think I’m missing out.

The Crown Store
Lastly, I’ll just mention the whole crown store problem. The constant aggressive push for microtransactions… I’ll just leave it there.

Wrapping Up
I’m sure there are plenty of people at ZoS that really care about the game and the game world. I’m sure this is a classic product of management wanting to please the shareholders more than investing more in a quality product. I’m not talking about bugs. I’m talking about quality idea development and intelligent writing. Put alas it’s all a game… a game of risk/return assessment.

Elsonso

pklemming wrote: »

I disagree about the flock of birds analogy, we move when we no longer feel wanted by a game. When concerns are never addressed and changes are made that the player populace does not want.

The tendency to flock is very evident, and not just in gaming. We have a lot of modern terms for the phenomenon and related behaviors. Too many for it to not be a thing. That does not mean everyone does it. There will be lone wolves. I would guess almost everyone is influenced by it, though.

In games, the whole Meta is an artifact of that. What sets, classes, builds people use is highly influenced. On the forums, we have influencers that drive direction and thinking, and echo chambers to build it up.

Roztlin45

Apathy:

1)When customers are shown that issues are never addressed and outcry is ignored. Over many years.

2)Marketing sales over take quality and service.

3)No interest in quality of life and fresh innovation ideas.

* generally no ip or business wants customers to loose interest.

Overall ESO is a great game. However it could have been and can be the best. Attention is needed here.

pklemming

Yeah, it could have been so much more. the time spent to fix things that were never broken, could have been put towards quality of life in the game.

I do know there are different departments, but that does not preclude crossovers.

They are stifling online relationships too. the people that play together and actually 'date' in a game. I met my wife on Everquest, we had many dates in picturesque settings(whilst killing 'bad guys)'. All I can say is, with the new AI filter, that would never have happened, and I will leave it at that.

it is really not to late to turn things around, or at least attempt to go in a different direction. Players and player input is important. Chances are we play and do things v ery different from testing and can offer a different perspective. Dismissing us, out of hand, is a poor, poor choice.

ElderOfTamriel

TaSheen wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

KromedeTheCorrupt wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

This ia actually so crazy...

Shocking and another indicator in how much or rather how less interest people have into eso atm.

Sadly this has been the case for years like if people played eso like they say they do the viewers on YouTubers and twitch streamers would be A LOT higher.

Most people who play ESO skew a bit older and the common comment is 'ew why would i watch someone else play the game' LOL. I think ESO's top demographic just isn't into watching Twitch. Even in the glory days of ESO streaming, peak viewers was usually in the 3-5K count.

Truth. I'm not in the "top demographic" (which might be 40's?), but I won't touch twitch or you tube for anything at all, and as far as watching someone play a game I play myself? Why would I do that? I don't care how others play, means absolutely nothing to me.

I don't watch ESO's streams either.

@TaSheen you should definitelly touch youtube you can find all the old songs which you probably had on vinyl plates years ago or even still have there and hear them on your phone or pc i also only use it for that. Best thing while playing some ESO is to hear some background music through youtube in browser.

Also, did you already had time/motivation to farm for Vvardenfell nodes yet?

TaSheen

ElderOfTamriel wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Truth. I'm not in the "top demographic" (which might be 40's?), but I won't touch twitch or you tube for anything at all, and as far as watching someone play a game I play myself? Why would I do that? I don't care how others play, means absolutely nothing to me.

I don't watch ESO's streams either.

@TaSheen you should definitelly touch youtube you can find all the old songs which you probably had on vinyl plates years ago or even still have there and hear them on your phone or pc i also only use it for that. Best thing while playing some ESO is to hear some background music through youtube in browser.

Also, did you already had time/motivation to farm for Vvardenfell nodes yet?

Not as yet, darn it! The family thing expanded almost exponentially, it *might* be over with soon (like the first weekend in November I hope) - and then life might give me time to start that farming. When I do, it will be on PC EU, so anything I get that you're looking for, I'll be happy to give over.

This year has just been a total PITA to deal with.... I sure hope next year is better.

AllenaNightWood

ppl are just taking a break were going into endless holiday season with thanks giving Halloween and Christmas, there will probably be a surge with witches fest with new quests and a boss i know im in a less eso phase right now playing other games and holiday prep

Muizer

One major obstacle is of course that with the year long stories ZOS has habituated ESO's player base to / selected for a large dose of new content every year. Much of it has been 'one and done'. The rest is perhaps repeatable (you can play through it over and over) but has no replay value (it's the same every time). If the intent is to now focus more on 'systems', how is that going to land in a game that has so little content with replay value and a player base that expects brand new one-and done content? It's not at all obvious that's going to work.

MISTFORMBZZZ

This is now after i finished work and wanna play a bit 16.15 pm.

Nothing going on, also in Group finder or craglorn, so i log off again.

Empty game on my server. I dont really care for wich reasons its empty its empty so i dont play it either.

Im on Console and tomorrow is New World gonna be released on Consoles so stuff wont become better.

Wing

the game does not make anything for the casual player worth anything anymore.

all colors / sets / motif's -placed in hard as *** dungeons / raids 5% of people play
card game? not ESO, dont care
scrying? not ESO, dont care (and you cannot harvest a bush without getting a million gold leads for [snip])
housing? dont care about ESO, why care about housing?

i cut my sub with a few others months ago, the only thing to pay for is the craft bag [snip] [/b] excuse me? this is supposed to be a fun game that i want to play, and you're going to hand me a paper bag of excrement and tell me if i want to play your game i have to hold this or pay you? yeah no, so many great games that i can pay for amazing things in, [snip]

a friend of our was trying to find things to do, go for colors they have not unlocked yet, they were all behind dungeons or raids they cannot do (solo casual pve player)
its sux because they are grasping at things to get us to come back to ESO, and ZOS is just giving them nothing.

i come back from playing brand new games with much better respect and monetization and this first pop up i get is trying to hype up and sell me some re skinned mount from years ago. . .oh wow, you got me ESO, here take alllll my money /S -_-


[snip]
[edited for bashing & profanity bypass]

alternatelder

Wing wrote: »

the game does not make anything for the casual player worth anything anymore.

all colors / sets / motif's -placed in hard as *** dungeons / raids 5% of people play
card game? not ESO, dont care
scrying? not ESO, dont care (and you cannot harvest a bush without getting a million gold leads for [snip])
housing? dont care about ESO, why care about housing?

i cut my sub with a few others months ago, the only thing to pay for is the craft bag [snip] [/b] excuse me? this is supposed to be a fun game that i want to play, and you're going to hand me a paper bag of excrement and tell me if i want to play your game i have to hold this or pay you? yeah no, so many great games that i can pay for amazing things in, [snip]

a friend of our was trying to find things to do, go for colors they have not unlocked yet, they were all behind dungeons or raids they cannot do (solo casual pve player)
its sux because they are grasping at things to get us to come back to ESO, and ZOS is just giving them nothing.

i come back from playing brand new games with much better respect and monetization and this first pop up i get is trying to hype up and sell me some re skinned mount from years ago. . .oh wow, you got me ESO, here take alllll my money /S -_-


[snip]

Honestly, it sounds like your friends want all the rewards without putting in the work, and you're also unwilling to help them out. That's a user issue, not a zos issue. How is something not ESO (card game, scrying) if it's in the game? Your arguments just make you seem like you're looking for a different game and trying to blame zos for not grabbing your interest.

[edited to remove quote]

Stamicka

Wing wrote: »

the game does not make anything for the casual player worth anything anymore.

all colors / sets / motif's -placed in hard as *** dungeons / raids 5% of people play
card game? not ESO, dont care
scrying? not ESO, dont care (and you cannot harvest a bush without getting a million gold leads for [snip])
housing? dont care about ESO, why care about housing?

i cut my sub with a few others months ago, the only thing to pay for is the craft bag [snip] [/b] excuse me? this is supposed to be a fun game that i want to play, and you're going to hand me a paper bag of excrement and tell me if i want to play your game i have to hold this or pay you? yeah no, so many great games that i can pay for amazing things in, [snip]

a friend of our was trying to find things to do, go for colors they have not unlocked yet, they were all behind dungeons or raids they cannot do (solo casual pve player)
its sux because they are grasping at things to get us to come back to ESO, and ZOS is just giving them nothing.

i come back from playing brand new games with much better respect and monetization and this first pop up i get is trying to hype up and sell me some re skinned mount from years ago. . .oh wow, you got me ESO, here take alllll my money /S -_-


[snip]

So what is it exactly that you want? There's tons of items and colors locked behind questing achievements too. Overland and quest content makes up the majority of content in ESO and has for quite some time. I feel like the devs do the absolute most for the "solo casual pve players" and it's backfiring now.

[edited to remove quote]

ElderOfTamriel

TaSheen wrote: »

ElderOfTamriel wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Truth. I'm not in the "top demographic" (which might be 40's?), but I won't touch twitch or you tube for anything at all, and as far as watching someone play a game I play myself? Why would I do that? I don't care how others play, means absolutely nothing to me.

I don't watch ESO's streams either.

@TaSheen you should definitelly touch youtube you can find all the old songs which you probably had on vinyl plates years ago or even still have there and hear them on your phone or pc i also only use it for that. Best thing while playing some ESO is to hear some background music through youtube in browser.

Also, did you already had time/motivation to farm for Vvardenfell nodes yet?

Not as yet, darn it! The family thing expanded almost exponentially, it *might* be over with soon (like the first weekend in November I hope) - and then life might give me time to start that farming. When I do, it will be on PC EU, so anything I get that you're looking for, I'll be happy to give over.

This year has just been a total PITA to deal with.... I sure hope next year is better.

Oh no i dont like to hear that, good luck with it and stay positive!

SirAxen

After about 250 hours of Throne & Liberty...

*Looks at ESO.*


"Perhaps I treated you too harshly."

pklemming

SirAxen wrote: »

After about 250 hours of Throne & Liberty...

*Looks at ESO.*


"Perhaps I treated you too harshly."

I looked at the reviews and decided, " No way". I am going to play the alpha of Evercraft 18 to 20th, which looks very fun.

YandereGirlfriend

Muizer wrote: »

One major obstacle is of course that with the year long stories ZOS has habituated ESO's player base to / selected for a large dose of new content every year. Much of it has been 'one and done'. The rest is perhaps repeatable (you can play through it over and over) but has no replay value (it's the same every time). If the intent is to now focus more on 'systems', how is that going to land in a game that has so little content with replay value and a player base that expects brand new one-and done content? It's not at all obvious that's going to work.

Thanks for making this point.

I know that I have quite enjoyed the addition of new systems rather than the one-and-done casual questing content that you highlight. For players interested primarily in combat and end-game activities, the year-long story arcs felt formulaic and tired by the time that they were discontinued. It felt like content, and really as though the entire orientation of the game, had little "for us." By contrast, new systems and game modes are evergreen and provide players with a metaphorical sandbox and toys with which to make their own fun. For creative players, that is a huge boon.

If we were to claw back any of the previous content cadence's features, I would want to see the second dungeon pack return, as that is far more re-playable than casual zone stories. At present, the "bug fix patches", at least IMO, haven't really delivered upon what was promised when they were inaugurated. Certainly, game performance has only gone downhill since that time. So that feels less like a trade and more like an actual loss of content.

Aurielle

I've been playing another old MMO lately (it's about the same age as ESO), and it just makes me sad. I'm getting steady 60-70 ping in that game. I don't get disconnected. I don't see other players rubberbanding around me, and I'm seeing WAY more players in starter areas compared to ESO. Skills always fire when I press them.

My ping in ESO is now on average around 130 (basically double the other MMO's ping), with frequent unplayable spikes of 350+ no matter what I'm doing in game. The other MMO is free to play and is delivering a far superior experience performance-wise than a game I've spent literal hundreds (if not thousands) on. Guess which company is more likely to get my money in future? I'm basically just logging into ESO now to craft writs and collect mail, because doing anything more complicated than that results in frustration.

Dojohoda

I had typed a response but it contained much of the same reasons stated by others that focused on game content quality and quantity, gameplay performance, and that there is much shifting to the mechanics of classes, skills, and sets. For example- one cannot depend on any mechanic working the same way from year to year. Anyway, I wanted to add that I despise that AI is being used to monitor people's conversations. That other companies are using AI to snoop on customers doesn't make this company using it less despicable. AI monitoring crosses a line that I didn't know I had or needed to have, but there it is.

Amottica

Jaraal wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

The PVP game just doesn't offer Zenimax any return...so don't look for them to put a lot of time or money into it...

Have you even been to Cyrodiil? You will find a higher percentage of radiant mounts, arms packs, polymorphs, and whatnot there than anywhere else in the game. And PvPers have some of the best, most expensively decorated houses you will find.

ZOS absolutely IS hurting themselves by neglecting PvPers. There would be so many more players if they raised the population caps. And more players if there weren't so many crashes, lags, and stuck in combat type bugs. That's 100% on them. So if the PvP community isn't bringing in enough money to satisfy ZOS' bottom line, well, that's not on us.

A great many people in Cyrodiil are also in PvE. Regardless of that, the revenue from radiant mounts is not directly tied to PvP, as there are no direct revenue drivers for PvP like there are for PvE, so their comments are correct. More to the point, the only new addition to PvP on live servers is BGs.

They were part of a previous chapter and early BG players had to play to access it like we have to for new PvE content. Zenimax moved it to the base game. If they thought they could have made revenue off it we all know they would have made everyone continue to pay to access it.

If we have to pay to play PvP or our access was limited if we did not pay then we would see more done in that area of the game.

However, this has little to do with the shrinking population of the game since PvE is the major focus for most players here.

terrible1fi

The lag is horrible, even on next gen consoles. It makes it feel horrible to play, sadly. Also, the community has been begging for an overland difficulty increase and they've not done a thing on it, even though the problem has already been solved by other games like LOTRO. Lastly, the combat is so weird and spammy and floaty, it would be a massive improvement in population if there was a significant rework. Even something like throne and liberty feels more meaty.

Anyway, these are all things that can be easily fixed, but haven't been. Thats the reason that people are leaving the game. Its sad because I do love this game 😢

fizzylu

I don't think I've truly consistently played ESO since the release of Blackwood (and somewhat Greymoor).

I definitely don't think ESO is worth it's price. Chapter price, DLCs, and the "optional" sub all on top of just as overpriced cash shop items; they're all too expensive for what we get and I don't blame anyone for passing on it just because of that.
Then personally.... from the change to chapter sizes (which were already smaller than other triple A MMOs), QoL/bug updates passed off as new content, performance issues, and just the entire lack of point in doing most things in game.... sometimes even if I do want to play, I don't even know what to do. I think at most I log on, do daily writs, maybe some endeavors that don't make me go super out of the way, pay guild fees if needed, farm surveys if I got them, list items for sale, then logout. The only time I play more at this point is if I'm in the mood for BGs or I've decided to decorate/redecorate a house. But even those two activities can only keep me in game for so long.

I used to be the type to play BGs all day every day, now I play them only here and there for way shorter periods of time. This stems from questionable combat changes and/or a lack of them, being bored of the combat (running the same abilities and build for years does that yet Zenimax still refuses to add new weapons or active ability lines), performance issues, and feeling like I'm wasting my time since there's no real progression/reward for doing them.
Then housing also only goes so far, especially when they continue to do things like labeling a little UI interface as new housing content or locking notable homes behind the crown store.

Another huge problem I've recently noticed with the game.... the focus on making more of the old: antiquities, companions, ToT decks.
Now, I will give antiquities a pass since they add so many different things and is really just a source of getting said things (motifs, furnishings, character customization, etc).... but companions? When is enough, well, enough? While they are a nice touch of life/RPG fluff to the game, leveling them and grinding rapport gets really old. So much so that I still haven't fully leveled the current ones, yet more are already on the way. Then ToT, a still much hated and not very popular feature, keeps getting more added to it.
Idk, it just feels like the time put into making these things could be used for ACTUAL new content/features that may pull in new or old players.... but no, here's two more companions to mindlessly level for a little passive that may or may not impact your gameplay and another ToT deck to learn and make the "minigame" even more tedious to do. And I'm not even saying they should stop creating content for these fully.... just maybe not every year and instead actually focus on adding more new activities/ways to enjoy and immerse in the game--- OR, even crazier idea.... features players/gamers actually want.

Rant over, haha.