Maintenance for the week of December 30:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – December 30
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – December 30
Population shrinking, PLEASE do something
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garir_komes_molroy✭✭✭✭✭Players are leaving ESO - here's why
The game is developing very slowly, features that are in other MMOs in ESO are added after 9 years (group finder is an example), you don't need to invent anything, just take it.
Features that are in other MMOs are presented as something “innovative” but in the end causes disappointment (House tour is an example)
The game is being developed in the direction of the amount of content and not in quality, old locations are not updated and not supplemented with content.
More “buy this, buy that”.
Features that should be available to ALL players are available only to those who bought the chapter (Skins on skins, archaeology, or satellites is an example). And the real “killer features” of chapters are essentially nonexistent.
Class balance is not there, hybridization is incomplete and it is not clear why it is needed at all.
Events monotonous and boring.
There is no understanding of where to develop the game
Pvp is not updated for how many years (Cyro and IC).
And the worst thing is the simplification of everything in the game.
EVEN, even the quality of crown crate items has dropped(Just look at Vision of the Bloodmoon in crown crates, isn't that a hack job?)
Now the game is in a very suspended state, and if this is not dealt with and continue not to listen to the audience that really understands what the game needs and how it can be improved and finalized, then in the future it will not save even the release of chapters and players will continue to leave the game in other projects9 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It depends on the author for me. I get quite emotional over Misty Lackey's people in Valdemar, and Elizabeth Moon's in the Familias Regnant, and JK Rowling's in Harry Potter - and even over those in the original Wizard of Oz books, or the Walter Farley Black Stallion books. I'm not a visual "emotion" person; for me it's books....
The Wizard of Oz books really opened up reading to me. We had a box of 6 or 8 or them when I was little.
So did we - they were originally my mom's that her parents collected for her. My daughter has them now....______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....1 -
AzuraFan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It depends on the author for me. I get quite emotional over Misty Lackey's people in Valdemar, and Elizabeth Moon's in the Familias Regnant, and JK Rowling's in Harry Potter - and even over those in the original Wizard of Oz books, or the Walter Farley Black Stallion books. I'm not a visual "emotion" person; for me it's books....
I'm the opposite. I tear up easily at movies and TV shows. I've never teared up when reading a novel (I have when reading non-fiction, but rarely. It has to be gut-wrenching).
As far as TES goes, I teared up when playing Oblivion, when Martin leaves for the big showdown and all the people are cheering for him. I think it was in Bruma but I haven't played in years so I could be wrong about the location.1 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It depends on the author for me. I get quite emotional over Misty Lackey's people in Valdemar, and Elizabeth Moon's in the Familias Regnant, and JK Rowling's in Harry Potter - and even over those in the original Wizard of Oz books, or the Walter Farley Black Stallion books. I'm not a visual "emotion" person; for me it's books....
I'm the opposite. I tear up easily at movies and TV shows. I've never teared up when reading a novel (I have when reading non-fiction, but rarely. It has to be gut-wrenching).
As far as TES goes, I teared up when playing Oblivion, when Martin leaves for the big showdown and all the people are cheering for him. I think it was in Bruma but I haven't played in years so I could be wrong about the location.
I'm not sure now.... It might have been in the Imperial City where the Temple of the One was located. I haven't played the MQ in years myself. I still play the game, but I don't mess with the MQ (nor do I do so in Skyrim any more).______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....0 -
alternatelder✭✭✭✭✭
✭alternatelder wrote: »Steam is a small part of the population but you can still get a good handle of when people take a break. Go look at July-September of almost every year. 🤷
Isn't that the time between the chapter and the q3 dlc release? I wouldn't be surprised if many players only log in if there's something new and then leave again until the next release.
Exactly what I'm pointing out. This happens in all games, especially during summer into fall.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭2. PvE - quests - too much to read to be honest, I dont need as much text to know what is going on, also dont treat me like an idiot repeating all the stuff every two minutes.
I really hope ZOS doesn't just note the "too much to read" part and draws strange conclusions from that (I can see how that would end - not with removing the silly repetitions). Wouldn't be your fault, of course. It's rather that ZOS has already taken player suggestions and made weird things out of them...
I personally wouldn't want less to read, btw, but I'd rather see meaningful info, more about lore for example (if it fits the situation). It's not about the quantity of text, but the quality for me.I think that ZOS will endeavor to find a happy stable point where they don't have to invest a lot in the game development, but there are enough people playing to generate the necessary revenue to keep it running. It just seems like the natural state for a game in "maintenance mode". Whether they are doing that now is my main question. If they are, then why.
They already made the first step into that direction when they said in one of the end of year announcement (those marketing speeches in which everything was, as usual, wonderful and amazing, no matter what actually happened that year) that they plan to focus on "repeatable systems". I already wrote back then in these forums that it sounds like a cost issue to me, replacing expensive content like zones and quests with "systems" they can just add new items to with comparably much less efforts (and there's no arguing about that; writers, voice actors, people who build masses of new assets and maps, etc, are more costly compared to, let's say, adding a bunch of new antiquities to the game). When was that? What happened in that year that made them make this decision? The 2023/2024 new year announcement where they said they have taken the last 10 years to learn what the playerbase wants and now will give us more of that didn't sound any better to me either, btw.
Edited by Syldras on 10 October 2024 15:11@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire5 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Theist_VII wrote: »WitchyKiki wrote: »ESO questlines are fun for me, and they add to the TES lore in my head. Some are funny and others are tragic, and then you bump into your usual Stibbons or Narsis quests. I don't think ESO takes itself too seriously when it comes to quests, which I find charming.
Quite the opposite for me, I find that the game doesn’t treat itself serious enough.
Death is so nonchalant.
Yeah, ZOS lost all credibility lore-wise with me when they decided that 20 years of Bosmer lore was irrelevant and removed their stealth, and replaced it with a PvP only passive that has nothing to do with wood elves. Same thing with deleting Argonian poison immunity. And yet they didn't bother to rewrite the NPC dialogue that mentioned those things, so now a lot of the quests, books, and banter don't even make sense. Not only that, but they decided to bring characters from the main story that made the ultimate sacrifice to save Tamriel back to life.... to sell DLC. As if their deaths never even happened! And they never explained how they magically reappeared, and even the NPCs are like, gee, I don't know why I'm back. But I'm here, and let's go questing!
How are future stories supposed to be taken seriously under such circumstances? I suppose the proof is in the new Cat-In-The-Hat-like Daedric princes appearing out of thin air, to replay the same old "Help Me Save Tamriel from X" storyline, only with slightly different variations. There used to be interesting new storylines, like the Thieves Guild, The Drake of Blades, and the Dark Brotherhood... but lately it's just help the next group/god defeat a different group/god and call it a chapter.
If you can predict what's going to happen with 95% certainty when you start the latest quest, then something's amiss with the storytelling.17 -
MISTFORMBZZZ✭✭✭✭✭MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »o_Primate_o wrote: »MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »Sitting in this forum repeatedly touting t&l seems odd to me.
Of cause people will compare the games thought?
How is this odd?
It has been announced for ages there will be other mmos released and zos has done nothing to fix issues.
Even the most loyal community has enough at some point.
This thread here has been written before T&L release and there have been multiple of these kind of threads in the past and everything is literally getting ignored.
It is not strange to make comparisons to other games, especially T&L, which is now the rage in the competition. It just feels too much like an underlying message to me that you should quit ESO and come to T&L. It is too blatantly obvious. I am one of the critics of ZoS performance issues.
nobody said this and nobody wants you or anyone else to quit eso and play another game. We want Zos to take an example of positive aspects other games have and improve.
A good start would be to fix population, to come back to the topic..
No one will make clear stupid inducements. If you do, you will be banned from the Forum. I don't know how to quote you, but in your first post you posted that guild members were going to T&L, right? You can be led to that even if you did not intend it. Currently this thread has several posts mentioning T&L. I am one of those who, like you, love ESO and want to see the population revived.
Yes i wrote people from my guild went to T&L and im playing it too, because on PS EU its dead.
But i can promise you i would instantly come back if population was fixed.
We are literally just waiting for it but in the current state most of us are fed up and play something else.
This has nothing to do with trying to convince others to anything, its just speaking frustration out of me.
Yeah. I think a lot of ppl on EU server would play more if merged with NA. to rebuild toons on another server is not worth the time and feels redundant. Would rather build toons on Diablo or other games
100%.
My whole pvp guild would come back if that would happen and i know many others too.
We have been pvping the same 30 people for years now its just boring and more and more leave.
I would say merging the EU and NA Servers would be a total disaster for both Europeans and Americans. What would make more sense is shared toons. So you can play your EU toons on NA and vice versa and even that i assume many would not be happy about.
What they need to do is enhance the limit of pvp zones again/ more players in one instance to make the fights more epic again. And if thats not possible maybe introduce instanced sieges with one attacking and one defending side.
And before that seperate skill and set effects for pvp and pve.
I totally disagree and i dont see any reasons why people should complain about a bigger playerbase on one megaserver.
And pls dont bring up the gold market economics, this point is really unimportant, we are speaking abour a virtual currency with no real life value and also the market would regulate itself with the time, prices would recover or fit and all these would make the game even more exciting because its something HAPPENING, its active and its alive0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think that ZOS will endeavor to find a happy stable point where they don't have to invest a lot in the game development, but there are enough people playing to generate the necessary revenue to keep it running. It just seems like the natural state for a game in "maintenance mode". Whether they are doing that now is my main question. If they are, then why.
They already made the first step into that direction when they said in one of the end of year announcement (those marketing speeches in which everything was, as usual, wonderful and amazing, no matter what actually happened that year) that they plan to focus on "repeatable systems". I already wrote back then in these forums that it sounds like a cost issue to me, replacing expensive content like zones and quests with "systems" they can just add new items to with comparably much less efforts (and there's no arguing about that; writers, voice actors, people who build masses of new assets and maps, etc, are more costly compared to, let's say, adding a bunch of new antiquities to the game). When was that? What happened in that year that made them make this decision? The 2023/2024 new year announcement where they said they have taken the last 10 years to learn what the playerbase wants and now will give us more of that didn't sound any better to me either, btw.
Yes, the "tentpole" systems.
They spent the last 10 years learning what players want, then decided it was time to do something else.
8 -
o_Primate_o✭✭✭alternatelder wrote: »Steam is a small part of the population but you can still get a good handle of when people take a break. Go look at July-September of almost every year. 🤷
Isn't that the time between the chapter and the q3 dlc release? I wouldn't be surprised if many players only log in if there's something new and then leave again until the next release.
I am sure that people have less free time right when school and classes start, either because they are in that school or classes, or someone in the family is. Equally, they probably have more time when the school and classes are done. They probably play video games less when they have less free time and may even play more when they have more free time.
To echo your comment, people play more when something is happening in the game, which is not the theme of 2024, and play less when something in happening elsewhere in Gaming Land, which ebbs and flows based on different release cycles. We've been seeing that for years.
The question really is what ZOS is doing to contribute to the decline. Some people have mentioned performance and disconnects, and I see that as a significant issue that will probably never be resolved. I have already mentioned a lack of attention and story content. My fear is that this is by design and ZOS, perhaps reluctantly, expects people like me will wander away and not return simply because the game becomes as boring as watching paint dry.
I think that ZOS will endeavor to find a happy stable point where they don't have to invest a lot in the game development, but there are enough people playing to generate the necessary revenue to keep it running. It just seems like the natural state for a game in "maintenance mode". Whether they are doing that now is my main question. If they are, then why.Compared to other MMOs (especially the shallow, one dimensional MMO several in this forum are fawning over), yes, ESO’s storytelling is very good. The only MMO with better storytelling is LOTRO, and that’s largely due to the source IP.
MMORPG games tend to be very shallow in the story department. I suspect that this is largely due to the market, which is probably not looking for a deeply interesting story in an MMO because they are more interested in end game combat scenarios. The single player market is more likely to be interested in stories, since that is the game.
ESO has a lot of stories, and they are very Elder Scrolls. That just means that they fit into the Elder Scrolls genre. Bethesda is not exactly on the top of the pile with their literary excellence in the single player games. Good, yes, but not at the top. ZOS is below that, where they have a ton more story content, but all of it is rather average. What they lack in quality, they make up for in sheer mass. ESO is an MMORPG, after all. Yes, ESO is above average for an MMORPG, but as you said, many of those tend to be shallow and one dimensional, so hardly a shining comparison.o_Primate_o wrote: »Yeah. I think a lot of ppl on EU server would play more if merged with NA. to rebuild toons on another server is not worth the time and feels redundant. Would rather build toons on Diablo or other games
From what I have heard, the EU servers are higher population than the NA server on each platform,. Merging EU->NA would just bring whatever issues players have with the EU server to the NA server. On top of that, it would add more internet latency for the EU players.
EDIT: It might make more sense to move NA->EU, giving the NA players higher internet latency. I have also heard that the EU megaservers are physically larger (more compute power) than the NA servers.
(* relative populations and server sizes are anecdotal from talking to various people at official gatherings)
I play on Xbox now so it may be different. I've played with several ppl who switched to Xbox na bc Xbox EU server "dead"Edited by o_Primate_o on 10 October 2024 16:51Xbox NA as o Primate o0 -
MISTFORMBZZZ✭✭✭✭✭o_Primate_o wrote: »alternatelder wrote: »Steam is a small part of the population but you can still get a good handle of when people take a break. Go look at July-September of almost every year. 🤷
Isn't that the time between the chapter and the q3 dlc release? I wouldn't be surprised if many players only log in if there's something new and then leave again until the next release.
I am sure that people have less free time right when school and classes start, either because they are in that school or classes, or someone in the family is. Equally, they probably have more time when the school and classes are done. They probably play video games less when they have less free time and may even play more when they have more free time.
To echo your comment, people play more when something is happening in the game, which is not the theme of 2024, and play less when something in happening elsewhere in Gaming Land, which ebbs and flows based on different release cycles. We've been seeing that for years.
The question really is what ZOS is doing to contribute to the decline. Some people have mentioned performance and disconnects, and I see that as a significant issue that will probably never be resolved. I have already mentioned a lack of attention and story content. My fear is that this is by design and ZOS, perhaps reluctantly, expects people like me will wander away and not return simply because the game becomes as boring as watching paint dry.
I think that ZOS will endeavor to find a happy stable point where they don't have to invest a lot in the game development, but there are enough people playing to generate the necessary revenue to keep it running. It just seems like the natural state for a game in "maintenance mode". Whether they are doing that now is my main question. If they are, then why.Compared to other MMOs (especially the shallow, one dimensional MMO several in this forum are fawning over), yes, ESO’s storytelling is very good. The only MMO with better storytelling is LOTRO, and that’s largely due to the source IP.
MMORPG games tend to be very shallow in the story department. I suspect that this is largely due to the market, which is probably not looking for a deeply interesting story in an MMO because they are more interested in end game combat scenarios. The single player market is more likely to be interested in stories, since that is the game.
ESO has a lot of stories, and they are very Elder Scrolls. That just means that they fit into the Elder Scrolls genre. Bethesda is not exactly on the top of the pile with their literary excellence in the single player games. Good, yes, but not at the top. ZOS is below that, where they have a ton more story content, but all of it is rather average. What they lack in quality, they make up for in sheer mass. ESO is an MMORPG, after all. Yes, ESO is above average for an MMORPG, but as you said, many of those tend to be shallow and one dimensional, so hardly a shining comparison.o_Primate_o wrote: »Yeah. I think a lot of ppl on EU server would play more if merged with NA. to rebuild toons on another server is not worth the time and feels redundant. Would rather build toons on Diablo or other games
From what I have heard, the EU servers are higher population than the NA server on each platform,. Merging EU->NA would just bring whatever issues players have with the EU server to the NA server. On top of that, it would add more internet latency for the EU players.
EDIT: It might make more sense to move NA->EU, giving the NA players higher internet latency. I have also heard that the EU megaservers are physically larger (more compute power) than the NA servers.
(* relative populations and server sizes are anecdotal from talking to various people at official gatherings)
I play on Xbox now so it may be different. I've played with several ppl who switched to Xbox na bc Xbox EU server "dead"
NA servers are 100% more busy on all Plattforms1 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Theist_VII wrote: »WitchyKiki wrote: »ESO questlines are fun for me, and they add to the TES lore in my head. Some are funny and others are tragic, and then you bump into your usual Stibbons or Narsis quests. I don't think ESO takes itself too seriously when it comes to quests, which I find charming.
Quite the opposite for me, I find that the game doesn’t treat itself serious enough.
Death is so nonchalant.
How are future stories supposed to be taken seriously under such circumstances? I suppose the proof is in the new Cat-In-The-Hat-like Daedric princes appearing out of thin air, to replay the same old "Help Me Save Tamriel from X" storyline, only with slightly different variations. There used to be interesting new storylines, like the Thieves Guild, The Drake of Blades, and the Dark Brotherhood... but lately it's just help the next group/god defeat a different group/god and call it a chapter.
If you can predict what's going to happen with 95% certainty when you start the latest quest, then something's amiss with the storytelling.
I'm still trying to force myself through non existent "main quest" of a chapter (driving around side quests is a main quest now, wth?), it's dreadful. Each time we meet an enemy out brain switches to help them, observe them and just stand around waiting for them to finish their business, if not outright helping them. And proceed to ask what's just happened, how everyone is feeling etc. I'm still puzzled how Colovians being the main martial force of Empire didn't retaliate against bosmeri who appeared and claimed their land at the same time some ayleid-like daedra appears, while quite a few bosmeri seems like digging their Ayleid ancestry and their "new land". It's just bizarre and going so far from anything tes was it's not even funny. It isn't okay if some people need some fresh air after every quest to vent a bit lmao.
And I'm praying to Y'ffre this all won't end with just friendship and bubblegum again, like our tanned friend would just go live some normal life or something before being thrown into the lore void for good.0 -
Stamicka✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hi all, just wanted to follow up here with a quick acknowledgement. We have seen this thread and have passed it on to ZOS leadership. The conversation for the most part has been a good one about things you would like to see, even in comparison to other games currently on the market or soon to be on the market. Our goal is always to provide a fun and engaging experience for you and your friends/family.
We are working on a few things right now, but we're too early in the process to chat about any of it yet. But that also means we're early enough to see how we can incorporate some of your feedback. So please continue to share positive elements you would like to see in ESO or what you have seen in other games that entice you & your friends/family to further engage with that game.
To this day, I don't think anything has been as fun and engaging to me as ESO was from 2015-2018. In fact, it basically set the standard for what I want out of the future games that I play. While there are some things that can be learned from other games, I think the developers need to look at why many of the earlier players might have quit.
I would be happy to play an earlier version of ESO with today's quality of life improvements. Housing, potion multi crafting, item transmutation, and the item book have been great.
Way back when I would quest (pre One Tamriel), I enjoyed the sense of progression that the zones offered. There were certainly drawbacks that came with having a zone be tied to a specific level range, however I believe these can be mitigated with the right design. For example, if zones had an associated tier, like Auridon is tier 1, Grahtwood is tier 2, and so on up until we get to the highest tier which would be DLC zones, I think some of that sense of progression would come back. In this way, zones aren't tied to a specific level range, but they do ramp up in difficulty according to the tier. It might also give players a bit more direction. Overall I think all overland needs a difficulty increase, but I already know how the developers feel about that.
The game performed better and felt more fluid in the earlier days of ESO as well. This is super important of course, cause people won't put up with a laggy and buggy game forever. Performance isn't content related, but it really needs to be figured out if ESO is going to have a future beyond a solo questing game with optional grouping. I don't quite understand why it seems like we get either bug improvements OR new content. Why can't we get both at the same time like we did in the past? As many people have mentioned, it doesn't seem worth it to even log on for the Q3 patch cause nothing happens.
Cyrodiil is a great PvP format with tons of potential. In its current state it doesn't hold nearly enough people and it also doesn't perform well. I think it would be worthwhile to invest in it to get it back to its former glory. Imperial City in its current form is a missed opportunity. I think IC should be repurposed to offer a PvP mode similar to other modern MMORPGs with PvP. Basically, people in your group or your guild are allies, everyone else is an enemy. Get rid of the alliance format for IC and make it a primary way to get resources and gold as a guild or group. Throne and Liberty, New World, BDO, and Ashes of Creation (if it isn't vaporware) all have modes that are kind of like what I just described. I think ESO would be more appealing if it offered this as well.
Lastly, things need to be worth doing. I want to earn quality cosmetics for completing difficult achievements. Most of the quality cosmetics now seem to be in the crown store. I remember how exciting it was to start farming Maelstrom Arena. it was difficult but fun content and the weapons were best in slot for both PvP and PvE. I would farm this place whenever I had nothing else to do on the game and it always felt worthwhile. There's really nothing that gives this feeling now.
Releasing 50+ hours of quest content a year is nice and all, but long term retention for an MMO is about the repeatable activities. The PvP and endgame PvE actually keeps players logging in. This is the population that seems to be leaving the fastest. If ZOS wants to start supporting PvPers and endgame PvErs again, then the game needs better balance, better performance, and more accessibility. It would also help if ZOS just embraced the combat system rather than changing what so many people like about it.JaeyL
PC NA and Xbox NA9 -
OtarTheMad✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hi all, just wanted to follow up here with a quick acknowledgement. We have seen this thread and have passed it on to ZOS leadership. The conversation for the most part has been a good one about things you would like to see, even in comparison to other games currently on the market or soon to be on the market. Our goal is always to provide a fun and engaging experience for you and your friends/family.
We are working on a few things right now, but we're too early in the process to chat about any of it yet. But that also means we're early enough to see how we can incorporate some of your feedback. So please continue to share positive elements you would like to see in ESO or what you have seen in other games that entice you & your friends/family to further engage with that game.
To this day, I don't think anything has been as fun and engaging to me as ESO was from 2015-2018. In fact, it basically set the standard for what I want out of the future games that I play. While there are some things that can be learned from other games, I think the developers need to look at why many of the earlier players might have quit.
I would be happy to play an earlier version of ESO with today's quality of life improvements. Housing, potion multi crafting, item transmutation, and the item book have been great.
Way back when I would quest (pre One Tamriel), I enjoyed the sense of progression that the zones offered. There were certainly drawbacks that came with having a zone be tied to a specific level range, however I believe these can be mitigated with the right design. For example, if zones had an associated tier, like Auridon is tier 1, Grahtwood is tier 2, and so on up until we get to the highest tier which would be DLC zones, I think some of that sense of progression would come back. In this way, zones aren't tied to a specific level range, but they do ramp up in difficulty according to the tier. It might also give players a bit more direction. Overall I think all overland needs a difficulty increase, but I already know how the developers feel about that.
The game performed better and felt more fluid in the earlier days of ESO as well. This is super important of course, cause people won't put up with a laggy and buggy game forever. Performance isn't content related, but it really needs to be figured out if ESO is going to have a future beyond a solo questing game with optional grouping. I don't quite understand why it seems like we get either bug improvements OR new content. Why can't we get both at the same time like we did in the past? As many people have mentioned, it doesn't seem worth it to even log on for the Q3 patch cause nothing happens.
Cyrodiil is a great PvP format with tons of potential. In its current state it doesn't hold nearly enough people and it also doesn't perform well. I think it would be worthwhile to invest in it to get it back to its former glory. Imperial City in its current form is a missed opportunity. I think IC should be repurposed to offer a PvP mode similar to other modern MMORPGs with PvP. Basically, people in your group or your guild are allies, everyone else is an enemy. Get rid of the alliance format for IC and make it a primary way to get resources and gold as a guild or group. Throne and Liberty, New World, BDO, and Ashes of Creation (if it isn't vaporware) all have modes that are kind of like what I just described. I think ESO would be more appealing if it offered this as well.
Lastly, things need to be worth doing. I want to earn quality cosmetics for completing difficult achievements. Most of the quality cosmetics now seem to be in the crown store. I remember how exciting it was to start farming Maelstrom Arena. it was difficult but fun content and the weapons were best in slot for both PvP and PvE. I would farm this place whenever I had nothing else to do on the game and it always felt worthwhile. There's really nothing that gives this feeling now.
Releasing 50+ hours of quest content a year is nice and all, but long term retention for an MMO is about the repeatable activities. The PvP and endgame PvE actually keeps players logging in. This is the population that seems to be leaving the fastest. If ZOS wants to start supporting PvPers and endgame PvErs again, then the game needs better balance, better performance, and more accessibility. It would also help if ZOS just embraced the combat system rather than changing what so many people like about it.
Well, here is the thing with how things went pre One Tamriel is that not everyone liked that. I found the progression in lower levels fine but the vet levels just didn’t work at all. Everyone I knew didn’t like it, it was like Craglorn at one point where they made it basically forced group content. Even admitting they made it so you needed more people, even sometimes for quests bosses. Vet zones were ghost towns and even in an interview Matt Firor, I believe, said that that version of the game wasn’t working, they only survived because a higher up believed in them. They thought of One Tamriel which saved the game.
I do think people who want harder content should get it, even if it’s not my thing. However, going back to methods that failed probably isn’t the best idea. I don’t know what they could do, maybe with the chapter they have a hardcore area with its own story and bosses and events or Q4 could go back to being a story DLC zone but an independent story like Murkmire was and make it harder content. So Q1 would be dungeons, Q2 chapter, Q3 bug fixes and small things like housing or PvP and then Q4 is HM Zone.
2 -
Stamicka✭✭✭✭✭
✭OtarTheMad wrote: »Hi all, just wanted to follow up here with a quick acknowledgement. We have seen this thread and have passed it on to ZOS leadership. The conversation for the most part has been a good one about things you would like to see, even in comparison to other games currently on the market or soon to be on the market. Our goal is always to provide a fun and engaging experience for you and your friends/family.
We are working on a few things right now, but we're too early in the process to chat about any of it yet. But that also means we're early enough to see how we can incorporate some of your feedback. So please continue to share positive elements you would like to see in ESO or what you have seen in other games that entice you & your friends/family to further engage with that game.
To this day, I don't think anything has been as fun and engaging to me as ESO was from 2015-2018. In fact, it basically set the standard for what I want out of the future games that I play. While there are some things that can be learned from other games, I think the developers need to look at why many of the earlier players might have quit.
I would be happy to play an earlier version of ESO with today's quality of life improvements. Housing, potion multi crafting, item transmutation, and the item book have been great.
Way back when I would quest (pre One Tamriel), I enjoyed the sense of progression that the zones offered. There were certainly drawbacks that came with having a zone be tied to a specific level range, however I believe these can be mitigated with the right design. For example, if zones had an associated tier, like Auridon is tier 1, Grahtwood is tier 2, and so on up until we get to the highest tier which would be DLC zones, I think some of that sense of progression would come back. In this way, zones aren't tied to a specific level range, but they do ramp up in difficulty according to the tier. It might also give players a bit more direction. Overall I think all overland needs a difficulty increase, but I already know how the developers feel about that.
The game performed better and felt more fluid in the earlier days of ESO as well. This is super important of course, cause people won't put up with a laggy and buggy game forever. Performance isn't content related, but it really needs to be figured out if ESO is going to have a future beyond a solo questing game with optional grouping. I don't quite understand why it seems like we get either bug improvements OR new content. Why can't we get both at the same time like we did in the past? As many people have mentioned, it doesn't seem worth it to even log on for the Q3 patch cause nothing happens.
Cyrodiil is a great PvP format with tons of potential. In its current state it doesn't hold nearly enough people and it also doesn't perform well. I think it would be worthwhile to invest in it to get it back to its former glory. Imperial City in its current form is a missed opportunity. I think IC should be repurposed to offer a PvP mode similar to other modern MMORPGs with PvP. Basically, people in your group or your guild are allies, everyone else is an enemy. Get rid of the alliance format for IC and make it a primary way to get resources and gold as a guild or group. Throne and Liberty, New World, BDO, and Ashes of Creation (if it isn't vaporware) all have modes that are kind of like what I just described. I think ESO would be more appealing if it offered this as well.
Lastly, things need to be worth doing. I want to earn quality cosmetics for completing difficult achievements. Most of the quality cosmetics now seem to be in the crown store. I remember how exciting it was to start farming Maelstrom Arena. it was difficult but fun content and the weapons were best in slot for both PvP and PvE. I would farm this place whenever I had nothing else to do on the game and it always felt worthwhile. There's really nothing that gives this feeling now.
Releasing 50+ hours of quest content a year is nice and all, but long term retention for an MMO is about the repeatable activities. The PvP and endgame PvE actually keeps players logging in. This is the population that seems to be leaving the fastest. If ZOS wants to start supporting PvPers and endgame PvErs again, then the game needs better balance, better performance, and more accessibility. It would also help if ZOS just embraced the combat system rather than changing what so many people like about it.
Well, here is the thing with how things went pre One Tamriel is that not everyone liked that. I found the progression in lower levels fine but the vet levels just didn’t work at all. Everyone I knew didn’t like it, it was like Craglorn at one point where they made it basically forced group content. Even admitting they made it so you needed more people, even sometimes for quests bosses. Vet zones were ghost towns and even in an interview Matt Firor, I believe, said that that version of the game wasn’t working, they only survived because a higher up believed in them. They thought of One Tamriel which saved the game.
I do think people who want harder content should get it, even if it’s not my thing. However, going back to methods that failed probably isn’t the best idea. I don’t know what they could do, maybe with the chapter they have a hardcore area with its own story and bosses and events or Q4 could go back to being a story DLC zone but an independent story like Murkmire was and make it harder content. So Q1 would be dungeons, Q2 chapter, Q3 bug fixes and small things like housing or PvP and then Q4 is HM Zone.
Pre One Tamriel ESO made it a huge hassle to play the game with friends. I think that was the biggest mistake more than anything else. You could only play with people on your alliance and ideally near your level. So basically, if you had a friend that chose a different alliance, they would have to make a new character to play with you. On top of that though, with zones being tied to level, if you were higher level than your friend then you basically wouldn’t get any XP while playing with them.
I don’t think dividing the player base by alliance outside of PvP was a good idea and I don’t think the zones being tied to levels was a good idea either. The sense of progression of moving from zone to zone has been lost though, that’s why I think a tier system would be nice. So Auridon, Stonefalls, and Glenumbra would have the lowest tier of enemies, but any player could still go there and not be super overleveled. Higher tier enemies would be a bit more difficult, maybe they could even give some extra XP. Basically, keep the sense of progression, but not to a point where players can’t play with each other.
There’s a healthy balance between encouraging groups and forcing them. I wouldn’t want overland to be so difficult that it can’t be done without a group, but as is ESO overland can be done solo while gearless, so there’s absolutely no reason to bring someone else. I think it would actually be easier to design a more difficult overland aimed at small group play, then to accommodate solo players through item sets. For example, they can make a mythic that gives you x% damage against monsters or a certain amount of stats, but the bonus decreases very sharply for each member in your group, down to 0%. Even a “while not grouped gain x stats” mythic would work. In its current form though, overland is so easy that players would need an item that DEBUFFS them to make it difficult, and that’s not even taking into account having a friend with them to help. It should be the other way around, where content is designed around playing with others cause it’s an MMO, but options exist that specifically give solo players more power when not grouped (Only for overland, leave PvP out).
Early ESO certainly had its rough points in terms of quality of life and playing with friends, but I also think it did many things better. It wasn’t the success that modern ESO is financially, but it’s mainly due to missing content and the inability to play with others that I mentioned earlier.
Edited by Stamicka on 10 October 2024 21:03JaeyL
PC NA and Xbox NA2 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Releasing 50+ hours of quest content a year is nice and all, but long term retention for an MMO is about the repeatable activities.
It's officially 40 hours, less in reality (I really don't know how they manage to spend 40 hours on the chapter, and yes, I read lorebooks and listen to dialogues). They have already said they want to focus on repeatable activities instead of story content. 2 years ago or so. That's the reason they threw out the Q4 story/zone dlc. Did anything in the game improve since then?
@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire5 -
MISTFORMBZZZ✭✭✭✭✭Yesterday prime time arround 30-40 people online in my 500 people guilds and i lacked for 1h to find someone for the pledges so i stopped.
Cyro Bars 2 1 2
2 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »Yesterday prime time arround 30-40 people online in my 500 people guilds and i lacked for 1h to find someone for the pledges so i stopped.
Maybe you need to find a new guild? I've had many guilds die over the years. People leave, people come, guilds can go away, new guilds can happen.Edited by Elsonso on 11 October 2024 09:495 -
MISTFORMBZZZ✭✭✭✭✭MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »Yesterday prime time arround 30-40 people online in my 500 people guilds and i lacked for 1h to find someone for the pledges so i stopped.
Maybe you need to find a new guild? I've had many guilds die over the years. People leave, people come, guilds can go away, new guilds can happen.
Im not speaking about one guild im speaking about 4 lol5 -
mandricus✭✭✭✭✭I don't know why people are leaving ESO, but as one of those who left, I can explain why I did.
For context, I have about 7,500 hours in the game, 13 fully geared and leveled-up characters (one stamina and one magicka variant for each class, plus a dedicated healer). Every character is fully leveled with all the skill points, Mages Guild, Fighters Guild, Psijic Order, and so on, and I have a ton of golded sets.
I’ve done a lot of hard mode DLC dungeons and veteran trials, but I’m by no means a hardcore PvE player.
I’ve also spent a lot of time in PvP in Cyrodiil/Imperial City, but again, I wouldn’t call myself a hardcore PvP player either.
I’m more of an "average Joe"—not particularly great at any specific aspect of the game, but enjoying it by casually switching from questing to RvR to small-scale PvP to mid-endgame PvE.
I haven’t played for about a year now, and today I’m casually browsing the forums because I felt a bit nostalgic and wanted to check out the current state of things.
So, why did I leave the game? Here are the main reasons that come to mind:
I got fed up with the fact that, after the painful grind to get weapons and sets—after spending weeks or months getting what you needed to set up a build—the sets could be completely obliterated (not just slightly adjusted, but completely obliterated to the point of being useless) overnight with no warning and often for no real reason other than to "shake up the meta." This happened multiple times until one day I just said, "enough is enough."
Constant class, racial, and skill changes that were handled with a sledgehammer. I play other games, and when something is OP, it's usually adjusted over 1, 2, or 3 iterations in small steps, until it’s balanced with other items in the game. Take Warzone as an example (a different game but very popular): OP weapons are slightly adjusted between patches, so they’re no longer OP but still usable and competitive. In ESO, there was no middle ground. Either a class or skill was completely broken for a while, or it became utterly useless. This ties back to point 1: it felt like a way to force players into the endless grind cycle, making them level up new characters, classes, or playstyles.
When new classes were introduced (this happened with the Warden and the Arcanist), they deliberately destroyed existing classes or playstyles to make room for the new ones and make them shine. Again, this was to force players back into the grind cycle.
Hybridization: a noble idea on paper, but a disastrous result in practice. It ruined one of the most fun aspects of the game—having to choose between two clear playstyles (the "warrior" or the "mage," each with its pros and cons). Now, every spec feels like the same bland hybrid warrior/mage on paper, with more options, but in reality, there’s less choice because everyone is using more or less the same builds and skills.
ESO, at its peak in some patches, was one of the best, if not the best game I’ve ever played. We had crazy playstyles and builds—some of them OP, sure, but almost every OP build had a counter (a rock/paper/scissors mechanic). PvP, when it worked, was a blast, and PvE was beautiful. But because they had to feed the endless grind cycle, they slowly killed the game, sucking out all the fun aspects and alienating their player base in the process.
So, in the end, from my perspective, the lesson is this: you can only frustrate and disrespect your customers up to a point. Even if your game is great, sooner or later, they’ll get fed up and say, "enough is enough," and they’ll leave.29 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't know why people are leaving ESO, but as one of those who left, I can explain why I did.
For context, I have about 7,500 hours in the game, 13 fully geared and leveled-up characters (one stamina and one magicka variant for each class, plus a dedicated healer). Every character is fully leveled with all the skill points, Mages Guild, Fighters Guild, Psijic Order, and so on, and I have a ton of golded sets.
I’ve done a lot of hard mode DLC dungeons and veteran trials, but I’m by no means a hardcore PvE player.
I’ve also spent a lot of time in PvP in Cyrodiil/Imperial City, but again, I wouldn’t call myself a hardcore PvP player either.
I’m more of an "average Joe"—not particularly great at any specific aspect of the game, but enjoying it by casually switching from questing to RvR to small-scale PvP to mid-endgame PvE.
I haven’t played for about a year now, and today I’m casually browsing the forums because I felt a bit nostalgic and wanted to check out the current state of things.
So, why did I leave the game? Here are the main reasons that come to mind:
I got fed up with the fact that, after the painful grind to get weapons and sets—after spending weeks or months getting what you needed to set up a build—the sets could be completely obliterated (not just slightly adjusted, but completely obliterated to the point of being useless) overnight with no warning and often for no real reason other than to "shake up the meta." This happened multiple times until one day I just said, "enough is enough."
Constant class, racial, and skill changes that were handled with a sledgehammer. I play other games, and when something is OP, it's usually adjusted over 1, 2, or 3 iterations in small steps, until it’s balanced with other items in the game. Take Warzone as an example (a different game but very popular): OP weapons are slightly adjusted between patches, so they’re no longer OP but still usable and competitive. In ESO, there was no middle ground. Either a class or skill was completely broken for a while, or it became utterly useless. This ties back to point 1: it felt like a way to force players into the endless grind cycle, making them level up new characters, classes, or playstyles.
When new classes were introduced (this happened with the Warden and the Arcanist), they deliberately destroyed existing classes or playstyles to make room for the new ones and make them shine. Again, this was to force players back into the grind cycle.
Hybridization: a noble idea on paper, but a disastrous result in practice. It ruined one of the most fun aspects of the game—having to choose between two clear playstyles (the "warrior" or the "mage," each with its pros and cons). Now, every spec feels like the same bland hybrid warrior/mage on paper, with more options, but in reality, there’s less choice because everyone is using more or less the same builds and skills.
ESO, at its peak in some patches, was one of the best, if not the best game I’ve ever played. We had crazy playstyles and builds—some of them OP, sure, but almost every OP build had a counter (a rock/paper/scissors mechanic). PvP, when it worked, was a blast, and PvE was beautiful. But because they had to feed the endless grind cycle, they slowly killed the game, sucking out all the fun aspects and alienating their player base in the process.
So, in the end, from my perspective, the lesson is this: you can only frustrate and disrespect your customers up to a point. Even if your game is great, sooner or later, they’ll get fed up and say, "enough is enough," and they’ll leave.
To be fair, when ZOS was making incremental to classes and skills, that seemed to generate a lot of stress. The result was a lot of suggestions to pick an action, do it, move on.
HybridizationHomogenization was a bad idea from the start.2 -
Stridig✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hi all, just wanted to follow up here with a quick acknowledgement. We have seen this thread and have passed it on to ZOS leadership. The conversation for the most part has been a good one about things you would like to see, even in comparison to other games currently on the market or soon to be on the market. Our goal is always to provide a fun and engaging experience for you and your friends/family.
We are working on a few things right now, but we're too early in the process to chat about any of it yet. But that also means we're early enough to see how we can incorporate some of your feedback. So please continue to share positive elements you would like to see in ESO or what you have seen in other games that entice you & your friends/family to further engage with that game.
The problem with sharing feedback to ZOS is you have to share the exact opposite of what needs to be fixed in the hopes of tricking them into doing the right thing. How many years have PvPers complained about heal stacking, shield stacking, snow treaders and basically everything ball group related. What does ZOS do? Drops the hammer on one of the only counters to this toxic playstyle. Nobody really feels like feedback is taken seriously.Enemy to many
Friend to all14 -
AvalonRanger✭✭✭✭✭If this is true, then why all 4 dungeon member including me were kicked from PC-NA
server?My playing time Mon-Friday UTC13:00-16:00 [PC-NA] CP over2000 now.
I have [1Tough tank] [1StamSorc-DD] [1Necro-DD] [1Real Healer]
with [1Stam Blade].
But, I'm Tank main player. Recently I'm doing Healer.
2023/12/21
By the way...Dungeon-Meshi(One of Famous Japanese fantasy story comic book) got finale...
Good-bye "King of Monster Eater".
2024/08/23
Farewell Atsuko Tanaka...(-_-) I never forget epic acting for major Motoko Kusanagi.2 -
AngryPenguin✭✭✭✭This week there hasn't been a queue to get into Grey Host PC at any time that I am aware. I've been logging straight into Cyrodiil during prime time for a week or longer. When trying to do the three repeatable quests in West Weld it's a real challenge to get a group to complete a world boss now, even during prime time.
So ya, the player base appears to be dropping off a cliff lately. And with performance issues this significant and persistent it's no wonder.
Edited by AngryPenguin on 11 October 2024 15:584 -
MISTFORMBZZZ✭✭✭✭✭AngryPenguin wrote: »This week there hasn't been a queue to get into Grey Host PC at any time that I am aware. I've been logging straight into Cyrodiil during prime time for a week or longer. When trying to do the three repeatable quests in West Weld it's a real challenge to get a group to complete a world boss now, even during prime time.
So ya, the player base appears to be dropping off a cliff lately. And with performance issues this significant and persistent it's no wonder.
Wait... yous have full bars ????
PS EU Friday 17:521 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I got fed up with the fact that, after the painful grind to get weapons and sets—after spending weeks or months getting what you needed to set up a build—the sets could be completely obliterated (not just slightly adjusted, but completely obliterated to the point of being useless) overnight with no warning and often for no real reason other than to "shake up the meta." This happened multiple times until one day I just said, "enough is enough."
Constant class, racial, and skill changes that were handled with a sledgehammer. I play other games, and when something is OP, it's usually adjusted over 1, 2, or 3 iterations in small steps, until it’s balanced with other items in the game. Take Warzone as an example (a different game but very popular): OP weapons are slightly adjusted between patches, so they’re no longer OP but still usable and competitive. In ESO, there was no middle ground. Either a class or skill was completely broken for a while, or it became utterly useless. This ties back to point 1: it felt like a way to force players into the endless grind cycle, making them level up new characters, classes, or playstyles.
When new classes were introduced (this happened with the Warden and the Arcanist), they deliberately destroyed existing classes or playstyles to make room for the new ones and make them shine. Again, this was to force players back into the grind cycle.
Hybridization: a noble idea on paper, but a disastrous result in practice. It ruined one of the most fun aspects of the game—having to choose between two clear playstyles (the "warrior" or the "mage," each with its pros and cons). Now, every spec feels like the same bland hybrid warrior/mage on paper, with more options, but in reality, there’s less choice because everyone is using more or less the same builds and skills.
100% agree. The yo-yo "balancing" creates more frustration than fixes. And then taking away skill styles and making everyone have the same builds creates boredom and cuts down on people grinding for different sets and combinations to try out. Everybody in Cyro/BGs is running the same 4 or 5 sets and skill bar loadouts, so you are pressured to run the same if you don't want to get rolled.
6 -
FayJolyn✭✭✭✭I've tried to get friends into the game. they don't stick around, overland is boring, they said, all the rewards are in the store there is no feeling of progression or incentive to get better or ingame resources to learn the game as you go. Many sets are just plain bad and the grind to cp160 didn't feel good. There is no reason to be in a guild as you can tackle most of the game solo with just 2 braincells. It also makes quests that they actually liked doing less impactful because all the npc die in 2 hits.. Oh and the limited bagspace issue was another deal-breaker. This is the feedback that I can share from friends who tried and left the game. And you what I agreed with them. I log in less frequently these days too because I'm bored currently and don't want to risk burning out because of it.Zha'ishii - Kahjiit nightblade (main) PC-EU14 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »Yesterday prime time arround 30-40 people online in my 500 people guilds and i lacked for 1h to find someone for the pledges so i stopped.
Maybe you need to find a new guild? I've had many guilds die over the years. People leave, people come, guilds can go away, new guilds can happen.
Im not speaking about one guild im speaking about 4 lol
Exactly. There are no guilds that I am currently in that I was in at launch, except for my own guild. Guilds turn over just the same as players do.1 -
AngryPenguin✭✭✭✭MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »Yesterday prime time arround 30-40 people online in my 500 people guilds and i lacked for 1h to find someone for the pledges so i stopped.
Maybe you need to find a new guild? I've had many guilds die over the years. People leave, people come, guilds can go away, new guilds can happen.
Im not speaking about one guild im speaking about 4 lol
Exactly. There are no guilds that I am currently in that I was in at launch, except for my own guild. Guilds turn over just the same as players do.
The player and guild churn right now is far, far higher now than it has ever been in the past. What's happening now is not normal by any measure.6 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AngryPenguin wrote: »MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »Yesterday prime time arround 30-40 people online in my 500 people guilds and i lacked for 1h to find someone for the pledges so i stopped.
Maybe you need to find a new guild? I've had many guilds die over the years. People leave, people come, guilds can go away, new guilds can happen.
Im not speaking about one guild im speaking about 4 lol
Exactly. There are no guilds that I am currently in that I was in at launch, except for my own guild. Guilds turn over just the same as players do.
The player and guild churn right now is far, far higher now than it has ever been in the past. What's happening now is not normal by any measure.
Someone says something very similar to that every time this subject gets discussed seriously. Tea leaves and entrails, signs and portents, mixed with a healthy dose of cognitive bias. People often over estimate the importance of things and ideas they hold dear.
I think the game is declining, and that is driven by my own personal bias. I don't think there is a crisis. It might turn into one, but we aren't even near the iceberg yet. Plenty of time to steer around it.
3