Would you want to adventure with an evil Companion?

Erickson9610

One thing that every Companion has in common is that they're written with heroic qualities. This is likely so that the player can make sense of the Companion's storyline and want to support them until the end. Unfortunately, this does not leave a lot of variety for players who wish to roleplay as villainous characters, since the vast majority of Companions do not agree with criminal activities like murder.

Imagine if we were to get a Vampire Companion in the near future — should they scorn the player for feeding and using Vampire abilities, like a member of House Ravenwatch would, or should they encourage the player to do these evil deeds? If we get the former, then how long would it be — if ever — until we get another Vampire Companion who is the latter? Players who enjoy roleplaying as an evil Vampire would hate to have a preachy Vampire Companion tell them not to act like a Vampire, and would prefer a Companion who fits their playstyle better.

One excerpt from the Companions Q&A reads:

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

What we care about, first and foremost, is creating compelling characters that players want to adventure with.

So, would you want to adventure with an evil Companion? Not a Companion who is indifferent about murder, but one who actively encourages you to murder and who gains rapport whenever you do? Would you feel comfortable around this sort of Companion if your character was also evil? Should Companions even be allowed to be evil, and should the player be allowed to go along with them?

coop500

Yes, I would want to adventure with an evil Companion.

On my evil character, sure.

I am not one that plays evil all that often in video games. I don't even play the Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild storylines that much in Skyrim. I am one of the few players that couldn't care less about being evil.

HOWEVER.... I believe it should always be an option in an RPG. Yes, this is an MMORPG but that almost makes it worse, because they have given us tons of cosmetic options for being very clearly evil and malicious. People who like that sort of thing deserve to also have a companion to match it. Not to mention classes like Nightblade, Necromancer, and even some aspects of Sorcerer and Arcanist encourage at least a morally grey, if not downright malicious character approach.

spartaxoxo

Other (please describe your thoughts)

It depends on how evil? I wouldn't want a companion that's miserable to be around. But someone like Elam from the Dark Brotherhood could be okay. But I wouldn't want a character like Sondivel to be a companion.

RaddlemanNumber7

No, I would NOT want to adventure with an evil Companion.

I judge them on how they actually make me feel:

I don't use Ember because her evil thieving suggestions make me feel uncomfortable.

Sharp's rough handling of his mount makes him borderline unacceptable.

Azander's lack of personal boundaries, particularly his treatment of the dead, make him too nauseating to use.

spartaxoxo

Other (please describe your thoughts)

I will say I wouldn't mind a stereotypically evil villain if they are just so extra that it's fun again, like Skeletor.

Renato90085

Other (please describe your thoughts)

For me, only passive is important

BretonMage

No, I would NOT want to adventure with an evil Companion.

Generally no, I don't really enjoy unequivocally evil characters. I do like morally grey characters who are capable of evil, though I can't see that being given the proper depth of treatment in an MMO.

TaSheen

No, I would NOT want to adventure with an evil Companion.

I play only goody two-shoes characters, quite similar to myself, though of course I don't live in a fantasy world. I haven't ever in my entire game playing life (since the mid-70s) played any evil (or even marginally not good) character - not once. And I never will.

My gameplay focus is being "someone's hero". My girls in ESO may be mercenaries instead of heroes, but they still do things to help people. Sure, they get paid.... but that's the game setup.

In my world view, there's no fun to be found playing an evil non-hero. Caveat: I enjoy Elam Drals (because his brand of snark is VERY like my own), but I not only won't play the DB stuff, I wouldn't really want his archetype as a companion even if I had any use for companions - though he was entertaining enough in Blackwood.

Blood_again

Yes, I would want to adventure with an evil Companion.

A quarter of my alts are evil by alignment. I would love seeing a companion who fits them.

For example that could be a dremora or a daedric creature who shouts "Let's see those mortals die" or other things we can hear from them in Coldharbor and delves.
Yes, I liked running with the Sanguine Rose in Skyrim

Also the quest should fit the companion.
I know there were no really evil quest lines in ESO. Even TG and DB are felt rather as "fighting the greater evil".
May be it's time to add some?

tomofhyrule

Other (please describe your thoughts)

Personally, no I wouldn't. I'm very hardcore in the 'Hero' category, and my 'more evil' characters are more anti-hero at worst.

BUT... I realize that a lot of people would, and I wouldn't want to take that from others. We should have a murderhobo companion for those who want the darker side.

Syldras

Yes, I would want to adventure with an evil Companion.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

So, would you want to adventure with an evil Companion? Not a Companion who is indifferent about murder, but one who actively encourages you to murder and who gains rapport whenever you do?

I'm no fan of cliché ("comic book") evilness. Gaining rapport for murder would mean some weird happyness about murder regardless of context which... well... sounds a little ridiculous? Unless maybe (but that's borderline) it's a Dark Brotherhood member and the voice line would be something like "Another soul sent to the void! Praised be Sithis" (or the like). I'd want it to have some logical or lore background instead of just "character loves murder, because character is evil".

The use of necromancy would be slightly different, as it could be seen as practicing spells, but then again, gaining rapport for using every necromantic skill might be a bit much...

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Would you feel comfortable around this sort of Companion if your character was also evil? Should Companions even be allowed to be evil, and should the player be allowed to go along with them?

The game is M rated, and it's all just roleplay anyway, so why would it not be allowed? I see ZOS not wanting to cross certain lines (and I doubt many players would like to play with someone who crosses boundaries of sexual consent, or an extreme racist - compared to the usual in-game xenophobia - anyway), but other than that, why not?

But as I said, I don't find cliché "evilness" that appealing. A companion that just likes "everything bad" for the sake of it wouldn't seem convincing to me. Also, I think that "evilness" or rather a certain "darkness" in terms of personality is much more than just doing immoral things. It's probably more or a way of thinking, a mindset, that should show in the dialogues, through all kinds of different topics. Very simplified: When it comes to an "evil" companion, I'd prefer a ruthless nihilist more than some braindead murder hobo.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Imagine if we were to get a Vampire Companion in the near future — should they scorn the player for feeding and using Vampire abilities, like a member of House Ravenwatch would, or should they encourage the player to do these evil deeds?

When Greymoor was announced and there weren't any details about the story yet, I still hoped we could somehow choose sides like we could in Skyrim/Dawnguard. I've got a certain dislike for the contemporary "good vampire" media trope, so I wouldn't have minded at all to end House Ravenwatch (except for Fennorian, he's young and can still be corrupted).

Bobargus

Yes, I would want to adventure with an evil Companion.

I want a dark brotherhood member companion to take on everyone and everything that is killable in ESO with.

Tandor

Yes, I would want to adventure with an evil Companion.

With certain of my characters, for sure.

Zodiarkslayer

Other (please describe your thoughts)

Totally Evil Companion? No.

But, I mean morals are always grey, if you have enough life experience. What is evil anyway?

Syldras

Yes, I would want to adventure with an evil Companion.

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

But, I mean morals are always grey, if you have enough life experience. What is evil anyway?

Every culture and era has their own definitions, although there are a few anthropological constants.

It's a good question, of course: What idea does OP have of "evil"? What do others have? I'm not sure whether a simple "yes/no" question helps much here.

Juomuuri

Yes, I would want to adventure with an evil Companion.

I'd like to have an evil companion to go with my evil khajiit necromancer.

JemadarofCaerSalis

No, I would NOT want to adventure with an evil Companion.

While I would not want to adventure with a truly evil character, I also would just not use such a companion, especially with the alternatives I have available.

I would probably try to max out the rapport and level, and then never touch the character again.

M1SHAAN

Yes, I would want to adventure with an evil Companion.

I'm bad at doing things that directly conflict with my real-life morals in videogames, and I also want my characters to generally have consistent morals and motivations, so I have exactly one extremely evil character to do evil things with. She is convinced she was spawned by Padomay to spread chaos and destruction across Nirn so that it can be consumed by the void.

She gets along with Azandar fine since he doesn't complain at her murder and thievery, but a more sadistic companion who actively encourages her delusions and finds joy in the suffering and death she causes in her mission to unmake civilization would be nice.

colossalvoids

Yes, I would want to adventure with an evil Companion.

I might even rethink my distaste of companions if those were carefully crafted and were able to challenge my views, oppose them or have a meaningful impact. Even a psychopath slaver would be an interesting one to deal with, as I'm definitely not seeking comfort in Tamriel.

Silaf

Yes, I would want to adventure with an evil Companion.

I have a small confession to make. As a 3600cp i may have killed some... Well i did confess to the Riften priest before killing him so most of it should be in the past but even so...

Syldras

Yes, I would want to adventure with an evil Companion.

colossalvoids wrote: »

I might even rethink my distaste of companions if those were carefully crafted and were able to challenge my views, oppose them or have a meaningful impact. Even a psychopath slaver would be an interesting one to deal with, as I'm definitely not seeking comfort in Tamriel.

Same. But that would need a very deep characterization to a point that I'm not sure ZOS is willing or able to do, considering they often tend to be cliché with their characters (especially villains).

Also some people might complain about the depiction of an "evil character" as a flawed or misled individual or someone lost in their cultural values without questioning them, instead of just pure cliché evil, as being apologetic.

Let alone some people conflate reality and fiction.

karthrag_inak

Yes, I would want to adventure with an evil Companion.

Khajiit already does on occasion. Bastian is a most heinous of evil ne'er-do-wells.

Syldras

Yes, I would want to adventure with an evil Companion.

karthrag_inak wrote: »

Khajiit already does on occasion. Bastian is a most heinous of evil ne'er-do-wells.

What did he do? Did he say "darn" or "heck"?

colossalvoids

Yes, I would want to adventure with an evil Companion.

Syldras wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

I might even rethink my distaste of companions if those were carefully crafted and were able to challenge my views, oppose them or have a meaningful impact. Even a psychopath slaver would be an interesting one to deal with, as I'm definitely not seeking comfort in Tamriel.

Same. But that would need a very deep characterization to a point that I'm not sure ZOS is willing or able to do, considering they often tend to be cliché with their characters (especially villains).

Also some people might complain about the depiction of an "evil character" as a flawed or misled individual or someone lost in their cultural values without questioning them, instead of just pure cliché evil, as being apologetic.

Let alone some people conflate reality and fiction.

Yes I'd say two last things are the main reasons here, we can't have complex villains who you can actually understand/relate to no matter how bad they are through our lense or the lense of the setting as it's might be perceived as a company's stance on some current thing. Overall complexity isn't something they're chasing as it can be confusing for some folks. Probably the reason I've started desperately discovering other similar settings who do not afraid of being misinterpreted and just do their thing, as tes probably mostly a thing that's already in the past with it's best moments and writing (Morrowind for me personally).

spartaxoxo

Other (please describe your thoughts)

I would not want to adventure with an unrepentant slaver and I don't think such a thing is needed for "complexity." It's fine with me if slavery is always depicted as bad instead of "nuance." Same with.... some of the stuff in Molag Bal's domain.

The Dark Brotherhood stuff is about as far as the line should be pushed imo.

Ugrak

Yes, I would want to adventure with an evil Companion.

Absolutely.

An evil companion in ESO could simply be a daedra bound by some contract, and could be done great if Arox the mutilator is anything to go by.

"Such violence! Oh, master, you make me so proud! You dispatched that Incarnate abomination with a ferocity worthy of Arox the Mutilator!"

"As you wish, master. The day will come when I fall upon your enemies like a burning thunderbolt and lay a hundred blackened skulls at your feet!
Let us see if the Bladebearer sneers at Arox then!"

Also I've long wanted a companion similar to HK47, like if for example the Dark Brotherhood had captured and reprogrammed a clockwork curator to become a clockwork assassin.

"Observation: I am a droid, master, with programming. Even if I did not enjoy killing, I would have no choice. Thankfully, I enjoy it very much."

Syldras

Yes, I would want to adventure with an evil Companion.

@colossalvoids

colossalvoids wrote: »

Yes I'd say two last things are the main reasons here, we can't have complex villains who you can actually understand/relate to no matter how bad they are through our lense or the lense of the setting as it's might be perceived as a company's stance on some current thing. Overall complexity isn't something they're chasing as it can be confusing for some folks.

I wouldn't say it's so much about "relating", more about understanding their motives logically. To see how things "make sense" from their point of view (which still doesn't mean it's forgiven in any way). This is something I prefer in fiction over the incomplex cliché of "baddie does bad things because baddie".

colossalvoids wrote: »

Probably the reason I've started desperately discovering other similar settings who do not afraid of being misinterpreted and just do their thing, as tes probably mostly a thing that's already in the past with it's best moments and writing (Morrowind for me personally).

You may have better luck in Eastern works. Otherwise one has to resort to private roleplay with friends who know how it is meant, I guess.

I actually find it concerning how the freedom of writing (fiction) slowly diminuishes because people can't take fiction what it is anymore but tend to interpret it as a statement about the real world. Many great works of literature deal with more than horrid things. Imagine they would have never been written because people assumed this would be about the writer making a real world statement.

Also, describing things does not mean supporting them (some people even seem to struggle to understand that). Not even if it's done from the perspective of a fictional villain.

PrincessOfThieves

Yes, I would want to adventure with an evil Companion.

Yes, I would. I am kinda disappointed that the upcoming necro companion is a good guy. We already have a bunch of "good" companions.
I guess Ember is still the most morally grey companion of all, which is a bit weird in a game that features factions like Dark Brotherhood, the necromancer class and a lot of edgy cosmetics.

LunaFlora

No, I would NOT want to adventure with an evil Companion.

Probably depends on how they are evil,
but generally no.

And i very much doubt an evil character would want to befriend the Vestige.

edited to add:
examples of types of characters i would not want to befriend and/or doubt would want to befriend the Vestige:
- slavers
- worm cultists
- dremora or other humanoid daedra who are directly associated with Dagon, Bal, Vaermina, and Nocturnal.
- grey host members

Fischblut

Yes, I would want to adventure with an evil Companion.

I don't really care what type of evil such companion would be (slaver, Dark Brotherhood/Thieves Guild/Worm Cult member, vampire, daedra etc) - the most important is that he/she doesn't get negative rapport from any criminal activities.

For perfection, this companion should not get negative rapport at all Just be always with my characters, help them in combat and don't try to scold them.

If an evil companion would get negative rapport from mundane gameplay things, I would not use it... I already have Azandar/Ember; they are ok with doing any bad things, but it's not pleasant to hear their whining when I try to relax by gathering mushrooms or fishing

Personality-wise, this is an example of "evil" companion whom my characters would like. Her appearance is also ok for some of my characters, but there would need to be more choices for better match with others

Syldras

Yes, I would want to adventure with an evil Companion.

LunaFlora wrote: »

And i very much doubt an evil character would want to befriend the Vestige.

Could be something as simple as having selfish motives at first (trying to gain power or have some other personal advantage by "befriending" with the vestige), but then realizing that they indeed like the vestige as a person. It's not like "evil" characters don't have emotions and couldn't suddenly develop a liking for someone, after all (unless it's the "evil 24/7, no other interests and character traits than being evil" cliché). ZOS could even make the usual redemption story out of it (although I'd prefer they do not for once).