The change of NB cloak will totally change this class, most fun part gone,

Veinblood1965

Anifaas wrote: »

I wonder who will be the next to have their colour drained from them?

Kind of what I was wondering. Playing with the core ability for a class. It's what makes the class fun in PVE and PVP, without it as it might as well just play any class as any class can stealth with Vamp four sigh.

Who's next? It's the reason I stopped playing WOW many years ago, quit the very day it happened. They completely changed a class dynamic and that was it.

Might be time for the next game. It's not so much this change but the last straw really, with the recent changes to vendoring and other things. Constant combat changes, constant.

Aurielle

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ZOS: We want to make cloak more accessible and eiser to use.

The Result :

Aurielle wrote: »

https://youtu.be/OHiQLEl4i0Q

I mean it really does sound like some kind of crazy over engineered & over complicated steam machine contraption making all kinds of cartoony noises. LOL

- Why are you so loud ?
- Cuz I am trying to sneak ! ! ! XD

The nerf is bad, but this is just plain hilarious at this point lol I mean, for sure, they made it easier lol
I mean, yes... sure. This is what PvE casual players want for sure.This is how "easier" looks like

Badass voice: "Oh, I am just gone press more buttons and A+B+ UP+Down combo for more magicka & longer cloak... cuz it is easier... !
Thanks... I am laughing so hard right now.... You made my day...

If you read the dev notes, they want cloak to be easier to use in PVE with the caveat that it shouldn't be easy to sustain it indefinitely. I think what they were trying to go for is a cloak that's easier to use in shorter bursts (i.e. one that does not force you to spam it three or four times to get out of a sticky situation), but they didn't want it to be so easy to sustain cloak indefinitely, hence the magicka drain. The latter idea doesn't work quite so well as a concept due to the existence of sets like Darloc Brae and Siphoning Attacks/Rally. I'm guessing you're being sarcastic here about how easy it is to spam Siphoning Attacks and Rally, but I can assure you that it's extremely easy.

argonian37

I dont know how they thought this would be a good idea… and I think that 10 people here whining for years because once or twice they were ganked and sometimes they struggle to kill good nbs (im not one of them btw) are the main cause. Cloak is not an OP weapon, is the main survival tool of a squishy class with clunky and outdated ultimates and skills. Is a way to manage position in combat and ticks on heals when you dont have good shields and armor, not a ridiculuously strong skill or buff.And is easily countered with a potion. As a position manage tool, keeping track of the skill and using it exactly when you need it is crucial… dont think that toggling it is a good idea at all

Tommy_The_Gun

Aurielle wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ZOS: We want to make cloak more accessible and eiser to use.

The Result :

Aurielle wrote: »

https://youtu.be/OHiQLEl4i0Q

I mean it really does sound like some kind of crazy over engineered & over complicated steam machine contraption making all kinds of cartoony noises. LOL

- Why are you so loud ?
- Cuz I am trying to sneak ! ! ! XD

The nerf is bad, but this is just plain hilarious at this point lol I mean, for sure, they made it easier lol
I mean, yes... sure. This is what PvE casual players want for sure.This is how "easier" looks like

Badass voice: "Oh, I am just gone press more buttons and A+B+ UP+Down combo for more magicka & longer cloak... cuz it is easier... !
Thanks... I am laughing so hard right now.... You made my day...

If you read the dev notes, they want cloak to be easier to use in PVE with the caveat that it shouldn't be easy to sustain it indefinitely. I think what they were trying to go for is a cloak that's easier to use in shorter bursts (i.e. one that does not force you to spam it three or four times to get out of a sticky situation), but they didn't want it to be so easy to sustain cloak indefinitely, hence the magicka drain. The latter idea doesn't work quite so well as a concept due to the existence of sets like Darloc Brae and Siphoning Attacks/Rally. I'm guessing you're being sarcastic here about how easy it is to spam Siphoning Attacks and Rally, but I can assure you that it's extremely easy.

Yeah, for me it is hilarious, cuz what will happen is that decent NB players will actually use this combo of skills you mentioned (maybe even without Darloc set). But casual players or players new to the class will struggle. I mean, right now on live server, it is just a coordinated rhythmical button press every 2,9 seconds. If you master that and can focus on doing other things while this "2,9 seconds rhythm" plays in the background, then you are rewarded for it.

Next patch it is like... I press a "cloak on" button and then push levers and then open a valve, then pull a leaver again....

ZOS created this. Not players. It is ZOS. They wanted cloak to be easier to manage, but, my god they made it soo convoluted. Cuz, again - decent NB players will for sure use this combo...

Hence why it is so funny to me. There are better ways of doing this. If the problem are some specific mag builds in PvP that can stay in cloak permanently due to mag regen - then adress those, and only those. Other NB builds were non issue (especially in PvE). They could have done it via battle spirit. Like for example: If you are under the efect of invisibility, your magicka recovery is reduced by 80% or something. The solution was easy, but for whatever reason ZOS decided to go all-in for the core class skill that kept its functionality for pretty much 10 years.

Hence, again - it is just so funny to me, cuz ZOS won't achieve its goal of "prohibiting permanent cloak", but will screw every single NB player over, except the ones that were supposed to be screwed by this change.

It is gloriously, amazingly hilariously fail...

Aurielle

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ZOS: We want to make cloak more accessible and eiser to use.

The Result :

Aurielle wrote: »

https://youtu.be/OHiQLEl4i0Q

I mean it really does sound like some kind of crazy over engineered & over complicated steam machine contraption making all kinds of cartoony noises. LOL

- Why are you so loud ?
- Cuz I am trying to sneak ! ! ! XD

The nerf is bad, but this is just plain hilarious at this point lol I mean, for sure, they made it easier lol
I mean, yes... sure. This is what PvE casual players want for sure.This is how "easier" looks like

Badass voice: "Oh, I am just gone press more buttons and A+B+ UP+Down combo for more magicka & longer cloak... cuz it is easier... !
Thanks... I am laughing so hard right now.... You made my day...

If you read the dev notes, they want cloak to be easier to use in PVE with the caveat that it shouldn't be easy to sustain it indefinitely. I think what they were trying to go for is a cloak that's easier to use in shorter bursts (i.e. one that does not force you to spam it three or four times to get out of a sticky situation), but they didn't want it to be so easy to sustain cloak indefinitely, hence the magicka drain. The latter idea doesn't work quite so well as a concept due to the existence of sets like Darloc Brae and Siphoning Attacks/Rally. I'm guessing you're being sarcastic here about how easy it is to spam Siphoning Attacks and Rally, but I can assure you that it's extremely easy.

Yeah, for me it is hilarious, cuz what will happen is that decent NB players will actually use this combo of skills you mentioned (maybe even without Darloc set). But casual players or players new to the class will struggle. I mean, right now on live server, it is just a coordinated rhythmical button press every 2,9 seconds. If you master that and can focus on doing other things while this "2,9 seconds rhythm" plays in the background, then you are rewarded for it.

Next patch it is like... I press a "cloak on" button and then push levers and then open a valve, then pull a leaver again....

ZOS created this. Not players. It is ZOS. They wanted cloak to be easier to manage, but, my god they made it soo convoluted. Cuz, again - decent NB players will for sure use this combo...

Hence why it is so funny to me. There are better ways of doing this. If the problem are some specific mag builds in PvP that can stay in cloak permanently due to mag regen - then adress those, and only those. Other NB builds were non issue (especially in PvE). They could have done it via battle spirit. Like for example: If you are under the efect of invisibility, your magicka recovery is reduced by 80% or something. The solution was easy, but for whatever reason ZOS decided to go all-in for the core class skill that kept its functionality for pretty much 10 years.

Hence, again - it is just so funny to me, cuz ZOS won't achieve its goal of "prohibiting permanent cloak", but will screw every single NB player over, except the ones that were supposed to be screwed by this change.

It is gloriously, amazingly hilariously fail...

I fully agree with you on most of what you've said here, but will say you can still be "rhythmic" with the Siphoning Attacks / Rally interplay if you want to -- it's really not difficult, and I possibly made it look harder to do than I should have. Forgive me, haven't had enough coffee yet this morning.

Permacloak was only a problem in PVP settings, so I agree with you fully that the solution to that problem should have been PVP-specific, via Battle Spirit. Either a ramping magicka cost (as has been suggested many, many times) or a nerf to magicka recovery would have been way better, and in PVP-enabled areas only. Making cloak a toggle is really quite odd and does affect the feel of the class.

bladenick

Aurielle wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ZOS: We want to make cloak more accessible and eiser to use.

The Result :

Aurielle wrote: »

https://youtu.be/OHiQLEl4i0Q

I mean it really does sound like some kind of crazy over engineered & over complicated steam machine contraption making all kinds of cartoony noises. LOL

- Why are you so loud ?
- Cuz I am trying to sneak ! ! ! XD

The nerf is bad, but this is just plain hilarious at this point lol I mean, for sure, they made it easier lol
I mean, yes... sure. This is what PvE casual players want for sure.This is how "easier" looks like

Badass voice: "Oh, I am just gone press more buttons and A+B+ UP+Down combo for more magicka & longer cloak... cuz it is easier... !
Thanks... I am laughing so hard right now.... You made my day...

If you read the dev notes, they want cloak to be easier to use in PVE with the caveat that it shouldn't be easy to sustain it indefinitely. I think what they were trying to go for is a cloak that's easier to use in shorter bursts (i.e. one that does not force you to spam it three or four times to get out of a sticky situation), but they didn't want it to be so easy to sustain cloak indefinitely, hence the magicka drain. The latter idea doesn't work quite so well as a concept due to the existence of sets like Darloc Brae and Siphoning Attacks/Rally. I'm guessing you're being sarcastic here about how easy it is to spam Siphoning Attacks and Rally, but I can assure you that it's extremely easy.

Yeah, for me it is hilarious, cuz what will happen is that decent NB players will actually use this combo of skills you mentioned (maybe even without Darloc set). But casual players or players new to the class will struggle. I mean, right now on live server, it is just a coordinated rhythmical button press every 2,9 seconds. If you master that and can focus on doing other things while this "2,9 seconds rhythm" plays in the background, then you are rewarded for it.

Next patch it is like... I press a "cloak on" button and then push levers and then open a valve, then pull a leaver again....

ZOS created this. Not players. It is ZOS. They wanted cloak to be easier to manage, but, my god they made it soo convoluted. Cuz, again - decent NB players will for sure use this combo...

Hence why it is so funny to me. There are better ways of doing this. If the problem are some specific mag builds in PvP that can stay in cloak permanently due to mag regen - then adress those, and only those. Other NB builds were non issue (especially in PvE). They could have done it via battle spirit. Like for example: If you are under the efect of invisibility, your magicka recovery is reduced by 80% or something. The solution was easy, but for whatever reason ZOS decided to go all-in for the core class skill that kept its functionality for pretty much 10 years.

Hence, again - it is just so funny to me, cuz ZOS won't achieve its goal of "prohibiting permanent cloak", but will screw every single NB player over, except the ones that were supposed to be screwed by this change.

It is gloriously, amazingly hilariously fail...

I fully agree with you on most of what you've said here, but will say you can still be "rhythmic" with the Siphoning Attacks / Rally interplay if you want to -- it's really not difficult, and I possibly made it look harder to do than I should have. Forgive me, haven't had enough coffee yet this morning.

Permacloak was only a problem in PVP settings, so I agree with you fully that the solution to that problem should have been PVP-specific, via Battle Spirit. Either a ramping magicka cost (as has been suggested many, many times) or a nerf to magicka recovery would have been way better, and in PVP-enabled areas only. Making cloak a toggle is really quite odd and does affect the feel of the class.

It core skill of NB, and all other skill and play style build up base on cloak, overall redesign needed if this core skill changed,

bladenick

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Anifaas wrote: »

I wonder who will be the next to have their colour drained from them?

Kind of what I was wondering. Playing with the core ability for a class. It's what makes the class fun in PVE and PVP, without it as it might as well just play any class as any class can stealth with Vamp four sigh.

Who's next? It's the reason I stopped playing WOW many years ago, quit the very day it happened. They completely changed a class dynamic and that was it.

Might be time for the next game. It's not so much this change but the last straw really, with the recent changes to vendoring and other things. Constant combat changes, constant.

Dev will change this whatever, there 2 side BG roll out, dev definitely are considering balance thing, just like WOW, the end of balance is just every class is similar, any unique play style need removed and unified

Another example like FF14, there totally no stealth class, i see the future ESO’s NB will just like ninja in FF14

ZeroAxis

Cloaking makes it almost as easy as stacking magicka, tossing up shields, and using two or maybe three buttons to kill people from range. If it doesn’t work out, streak away.

I think the Nightblades who “crutched” on cloak should hop on the magicka Sorcerer train so they can feel the breeze in their hair while streaking by in a chair with wheels.

Procs are the real issue. There is no doubt of that at all. Even with the cooldowns there are still 3 proc combos. I 100% believe that the main issue with stealth play in PvP comes from that. There are too many sets with too many procs that give a metric ton of free damage with zero risk involved.

Tcholl

All the classes have lost their identity and most ppl were happy when it happened. I am sure that many NB mains here thought that nerfing DKs corrosive was a great decision. Now, it finally hits you. Welcome to the club NBs.

CameraBeardThePirate

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The toggle also sucks for those who enjoyed stealth gameplay in PvE. Like, stealthing through heists and such is one of the most fun parts about Nightblades...

"Fun parts", you mean completely negating any sort of strategy in the heists? Nightblade trivializes the heist missions completely to the point where you don't even need to interact with any of the stealth mechanics during the missions.

Aurielle

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The toggle also sucks for those who enjoyed stealth gameplay in PvE. Like, stealthing through heists and such is one of the most fun parts about Nightblades...

"Fun parts", you mean completely negating any sort of strategy in the heists? Nightblade trivializes the heist missions completely to the point where you don't even need to interact with any of the stealth mechanics during the missions.

As the PTS video I posted earlier demonstrates, the toggle actually makes anything that relies on stealth tactics in PVE even more trivial than on live (so long as you’re using Darloc Brae and spamming Siphoning Attacks to offset the magicka drain). At least on live, NBs have to remember to recast cloak every three seconds. Now it’s simply a matter of turning the toggle on and using Siphoning Attacks to regain magicka faster than the drain.

I think a more reasonable solution to the problem of easy invisibility in PVP without needing to build for sustain (assuming a hard counter is not applied) is to keep cloak the way it is on live, but add a ramping magicka cost to the skill if it’s recast within four seconds when battle spirit is active — one that can’t simply be offset with gimmicks like Siphoning Attack spam. If the devs want it to be harder to maintain invisibility indefinitely in PVE areas as well (and that seems to be their intention, based on the patch notes), then set a more forgiving ramping cost when battle spirit is not active.

The toggle feels weird, and it’s an inelegant solution to a problem that mainly affects PVPers.

CameraBeardThePirate

Aurielle wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The toggle also sucks for those who enjoyed stealth gameplay in PvE. Like, stealthing through heists and such is one of the most fun parts about Nightblades...

"Fun parts", you mean completely negating any sort of strategy in the heists? Nightblade trivializes the heist missions completely to the point where you don't even need to interact with any of the stealth mechanics during the missions.

As the PTS video I posted earlier demonstrates, the toggle actually makes anything that relies on stealth tactics in PVE even more trivial than on live (so long as you’re using Darloc Brae and spamming Siphoning Attacks to offset the magicka drain). At least on live, NBs have to remember to recast cloak every three seconds. Now it’s simply a matter of turning the toggle on and using Siphoning Attacks to regain magicka faster than the drain.

I think a more reasonable solution to the problem of easy invisibility in PVP without needing to build for sustain (assuming a hard counter is not applied) is to keep cloak the way it is on live, but add a ramping magicka cost to the skill if it’s recast within four seconds when battle spirit is active — one that can’t simply be offset with gimmicks like Siphoning Attack spam. If the devs want it to be harder to maintain invisibility indefinitely in PVE areas as well (and that seems to be their intention, based on the patch notes), then set a more forgiving ramping cost when battle spirit is not active.

The toggle feels weird, and it’s an inelegant solution to a problem that mainly affects PVPers.

I mean needing to sacrifice an entire 5 piece set by running Darloc Brae accomplishes exactly what the devs intended for PvE. They don't want people that are specced in a dps build to be able to blitz through dungeons and avoid all mobs. Now if you want to do that, you need to drop a whole 5 piece just to sustain your cloak. You know, actually making a build decision?

Oldaraness

argonian37 wrote: »

I dont know how they thought this would be a good idea… and I think that 10 people here whining for years because once or twice they were ganked and sometimes they struggle to kill good nbs (im not one of them btw) are the main cause. Cloak is not an OP weapon, is the main survival tool of a squishy class with clunky and outdated ultimates and skills. Is a way to manage position in combat and ticks on heals when you dont have good shields and armor, not a ridiculuously strong skill or buff.And is easily countered with a potion. As a position manage tool, keeping track of the skill and using it exactly when you need it is crucial… dont think that toggling it is a good idea at all

THIS.

Oldaraness

Tcholl wrote: »

All the classes have lost their identity and most ppl were happy when it happened. I am sure that many NB mains here thought that nerfing DKs corrosive was a great decision. Now, it finally hits you. Welcome to the club NBs.

Hold on... here we are comparing the real class skill of the NB that makes a PG an NB with a poorly thought out ultimate skill that has become OP?

But what do you see so OP in this skill? As many have said, a potion is enough to counteract it, if you don't use it or don't know how to use it at the right time it's not the fault of the NB ...

CameraBeardThePirate

Oldaraness wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

All the classes have lost their identity and most ppl were happy when it happened. I am sure that many NB mains here thought that nerfing DKs corrosive was a great decision. Now, it finally hits you. Welcome to the club NBs.

Hold on... here we are comparing the real class skill of the NB that makes a PC an NB with a poorly thought out ultimate skill that has become OP?

But what do you see so OP in this skill? As many have said, a potion is enough to counteract it, if you don't use it or don't know how to use it at the right time it's not the fault of the NB ...

Oh come on. You cannot expect every single person in Cyrodiil to have a detect potion up at all times.

Oldaraness

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Oldaraness wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

All the classes have lost their identity and most ppl were happy when it happened. I am sure that many NB mains here thought that nerfing DKs corrosive was a great decision. Now, it finally hits you. Welcome to the club NBs.

Hold on... here we are comparing the real class skill of the NB that makes a PC an NB with a poorly thought out ultimate skill that has become OP?

But what do you see so OP in this skill? As many have said, a potion is enough to counteract it, if you don't use it or don't know how to use it at the right time it's not the fault of the NB ...

Oh come on. You cannot expect every single person in Cyrodiil to have a detect potion up at all times.

Okay but if the essence of the class is this, that is, to become invisible, if in pvp we do not allow to exist... What happens to this class? NBs aren't hard like a Dk, they don't have the resources of a Templar... they are fragile when exposed in combat... The feature is this... otherwise ok we all do tone Tank (as Cyrodiil is full of them) and we stand there looking at each other in the face...

If with a potion or a skill to see the invisible you solve Cloack's problem (at 40 meters I remember) I don't understand all this fury.

Aurielle

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

The toggle also sucks for those who enjoyed stealth gameplay in PvE. Like, stealthing through heists and such is one of the most fun parts about Nightblades...

"Fun parts", you mean completely negating any sort of strategy in the heists? Nightblade trivializes the heist missions completely to the point where you don't even need to interact with any of the stealth mechanics during the missions.

As the PTS video I posted earlier demonstrates, the toggle actually makes anything that relies on stealth tactics in PVE even more trivial than on live (so long as you’re using Darloc Brae and spamming Siphoning Attacks to offset the magicka drain). At least on live, NBs have to remember to recast cloak every three seconds. Now it’s simply a matter of turning the toggle on and using Siphoning Attacks to regain magicka faster than the drain.

I think a more reasonable solution to the problem of easy invisibility in PVP without needing to build for sustain (assuming a hard counter is not applied) is to keep cloak the way it is on live, but add a ramping magicka cost to the skill if it’s recast within four seconds when battle spirit is active — one that can’t simply be offset with gimmicks like Siphoning Attack spam. If the devs want it to be harder to maintain invisibility indefinitely in PVE areas as well (and that seems to be their intention, based on the patch notes), then set a more forgiving ramping cost when battle spirit is not active.

The toggle feels weird, and it’s an inelegant solution to a problem that mainly affects PVPers.

I mean needing to sacrifice an entire 5 piece set by running Darloc Brae accomplishes exactly what the devs intended for PvE. They don't want people that are specced in a dps build to be able to blitz through dungeons and avoid all mobs. Now if you want to do that, you need to drop a whole 5 piece just to sustain your cloak. You know, actually making a build decision?

That’s fair, I was thinking more of the PVE players wailing over in General Discussion because they supposedly can’t do heists or stealthy thief stuff anymore. They can, they just need to adjust their builds slightly. I still think the toggle is a weird solution to permacloak, though.

Oldaraness wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

All the classes have lost their identity and most ppl were happy when it happened. I am sure that many NB mains here thought that nerfing DKs corrosive was a great decision. Now, it finally hits you. Welcome to the club NBs.

But what do you see so OP in this skill? As many have said, a potion is enough to counteract it, if you don't use it or don't know how to use it at the right time it's not the fault of the NB ...

Sorry, but if you can’t acknowledge how powerful the ability to turn invisible in the middle of a PVP fight is, then I really don’t know what to say. There’s a reason why on demand instant in-combat invisibility is not really a feature in other games with PVP. Invisibility is a massive offensive and defensive advantage.

I’d like to remind everyone saying “BUT DETECT POTIONS!” that not everyone plays this game on M&K with addons to automatically select a specific potion on the quick slot wheel. Detect potions are only a reasonable counter against NBs for controller players if you keep them selected on your wheel at all times. This puts you at a disadvantage versus every player that isn’t a nightblade, as tri-pots and immovables are usually the better choice in all other encounters. If a nightblade tries to surprise you during a fight against another player and you normally use immovables, they’re long gone by the time you’ve managed to select your invis pot on your controller. Then there’s the issue of potion cooldowns, and the fact that any NB can permacloak around you with no drawbacks if you’re on cooldown. Radiant Magelight and Evil Hunter are options, of course, and they can indeed work, but not all builds can make room for them. A good ranged NB can still gank from outside the Magelight/Evil Hunter detection range anyway.

I personally don’t care that NBs can turn invisible in combat, but I agree with the devs that it shouldn’t be so easy to sustain invisibility without facing any consequences. I disagree with the toggle, as it’s an awkward “solution” that doesn’t feel great to use. Ramping magicka costs for cloak tied to battle spirit would be a better solution that keeps the original functionality of cloak intact, while making it harder for glass cannon PVP NBs to cloak constantly without also needing to build for sustain.

CameraBeardThePirate

Oldaraness wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Oldaraness wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

All the classes have lost their identity and most ppl were happy when it happened. I am sure that many NB mains here thought that nerfing DKs corrosive was a great decision. Now, it finally hits you. Welcome to the club NBs.

Hold on... here we are comparing the real class skill of the NB that makes a PC an NB with a poorly thought out ultimate skill that has become OP?

But what do you see so OP in this skill? As many have said, a potion is enough to counteract it, if you don't use it or don't know how to use it at the right time it's not the fault of the NB ...

Oh come on. You cannot expect every single person in Cyrodiil to have a detect potion up at all times.

Okay but if the essence of the class is this, that is, to become invisible, if in pvp we do not allow to exist... What happens to this class? NBs aren't hard like a Dk, they don't have the resources of a Templar... they are fragile when exposed in combat... The feature is this... otherwise ok we all do tone Tank (as Cyrodiil is full of them) and we stand there looking at each other in the face...

If with a potion or a skill to see the invisible you solve Cloack's problem (at 40 meters I remember) I don't understand all this fury.

Where did anyone say you weren't allowed to be invisible? It's not like they got rid of cloak, it's just harder to use.

If you honestly think NBs are still fragile, that's a learn to play issue. They have access to one of the strongest burst heals in the game, AND have access to one of the strongest HoTs in the game (and I'm not even mentioning the VERY strong healing ultimate they have). They haven't been fragile in like 2 years.

Necrotech_Master

Aurielle wrote: »

Ishtarknows wrote: »

Console player so can't test it, but does Darloc Brae still proc while Shadowy Disguise is toggled on?

I don't PvP NB but do enjoy the sneaky side of PvE and that set is a mainstay for me

If you enjoy the sneaky side of PVE, you will still enjoy NB (assuming they don't tweak it further). Here you go:

https://youtu.be/OHiQLEl4i0Q

This is with a Darloc Brae back bar. You can clearly see it working. I thought it might have been a bug before, as I assumed any set affecting magicka recovery / magicka gain would be disabled by Shadowy Disguise, but that's not the case here. Crouching before activating Shadowy Disguise while running Darloc Brae is less punishing than it is if you don't crouch.

technically speaking darloc brae is not a regen set, it doesnt add +regen, it just directly restores mag, stam, and hp every second while crouching

even currently you can use darloc to move in crouch mode indefinitely because moving in crouch drops stam recov to 0 now, and darloc still restores past that because its a direct stat restore instead of regen

any gear set which directly restores stats bypasses the "regen"

Tommy_The_Gun

Tcholl wrote: »

All the classes have lost their identity and most ppl were happy when it happened. I am sure that many NB mains here thought that nerfing DKs corrosive was a great decision. Now, it finally hits you. Welcome to the club NBs.

NB was already in that "club" a couple of times. Mostly during Elsweyr update and got out of this "club" somewhere after Greymoor. I guess next patch, the only class that won't be invited to this prestige "club" will be Sorc & Arcanist.

Oldaraness

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Where did anyone say you weren't allowed to be invisible? It's not like they got rid of cloak, it's just harder to use.

If you honestly think NBs are still fragile, that's a learn to play issue. They have access to one of the strongest burst heals in the game, AND have access to one of the strongest HoTs in the game (and I'm not even mentioning the VERY strong healing ultimate they have). They haven't been fragile in like 2 years.

Of course you can but don't say it's just more difficult because if when I get out of stealth I have zero resources and you with a nice DK tank you have suffered 30% damage with everything I can do... This is not making it difficult is making it unplayable.

If you play an NB as a tank, ok you're right, it's not fragile. But the NB is NOT a TANK. The class was born to hit hard and fast and, if discovered at the wrong time, be fragile, but a lot.

An increase in magicka cost could be enough to balance everything or an increase in resources if used within 3 seconds, like the Streak od the Sorc. The toggle is obscene, obscene. If they keep this change then bring the potions and skills to see the invisible at a lower range, 20mt, not 40mt.

CrazyKitty

Shadowasrial wrote: »

This is possibly the worst change for Nb ever. Everyone wants to dump on nd cloak as saying it’s overpowered but fail to realize that nb kit has never had super strong heals that were meant for sustained fights. (Yes you have other skill lines but they require you to use weapons that conflict with the weapons primarily used for damage thus nerfing your dps output.) but I’m talking strictly the nb skill lines. We have no real good heal. So cloak was a way to give our healing a chance to tick, as well as escape and redirect the fight by either reengaging or disengaging depending on whether we could take on said opponent. On top of that our primary damage dealing ultimate is trash compared to every other classes primary damage dealing ultimate. (Easily missed, easily blocked, minimal range, and no real ability to apply pressure to the target when cast. So many of the other classes ultimates are undodgable, unblockable, have a serious damage over time in addition to the hard hitting initial damage (the pressure I was speaking of) and still buff the player or greatly debuff the target. Look at dragon leap. Does a ton of damage, has huge range, flings you into the air is undodgable applies a stun after the fact your knocked back as well. Or they get a damage shield for the other morph.
So now you want to turn our only way to effectively line up an effective burst combo with our ultimate into a toggle ability. Which will more than likely still be negated by casting other skills and broken by others damage. On top of that our magic recovery is disabled.
Thanks I just might quit eso now if this goes live. I only play nb and have for 10 years. And I can tell you this will gut nb and kill any chance for a stealthy strike from shadows form of gameplay in PvP

NB currently has the strongest burst heal in the game. The entire siphoning skill line for NB is pretty strong. (I quit reading after the statement that NB never had a super strong heal)

argonian37

Maybe i’m biased. I dont know… I play in mac. As a nb, when im fighting a nb i select in the wheel the detect potion, use it and proceed to fight. Actually, 90% of nbs are not prepared for that, so is not only a counteraction. Like when you use that potion you turn over the fight. You now become the agresor and the nb cant operate their main defensive skill.
Is that so difficult in other platforms? Is easier to do that than to time a combo to kill a dk for example… I dont get whats the problem with using that potions. Yes, to fight nbs you have to slot that pots, to kill a tanky dk you have to do a combo, to kill a streaking sorc you have to slot a gap closer. Every class has its advantages and countertactics… like… is fair game. We cant ask to have jack of all trades solutions for every type of player, because that is not balance… thats boring.

CameraBeardThePirate

Oldaraness wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Where did anyone say you weren't allowed to be invisible? It's not like they got rid of cloak, it's just harder to use.

If you honestly think NBs are still fragile, that's a learn to play issue. They have access to one of the strongest burst heals in the game, AND have access to one of the strongest HoTs in the game (and I'm not even mentioning the VERY strong healing ultimate they have). They haven't been fragile in like 2 years.

Of course you can but don't say it's just more difficult because if when I get out of stealth I have zero resources and you with a nice DK tank you have suffered 30% damage with everything I can do... This is not making it difficult is making it unplayable.

If you play an NB as a tank, ok you're right, it's not fragile. But the NB is NOT a TANK. The class was born to hit hard and fast and, if discovered at the wrong time, be fragile, but a lot.

An increase in magicka cost could be enough to balance everything or an increase in resources if used within 3 seconds, like the Streak od the Sorc. The toggle is obscene, obscene. If they keep this change then bring the potions and skills to see the invisible at a lower range, 20mt, not 40mt.

I don't think you quite understand: you do not have to build a tank for nightblade to be durable. You can build more damage than any other class in the game (save for maybe Sorc) and still be extremely durable with a ton of sustain.

Tcholl

Oldaraness wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

All the classes have lost their identity and most ppl were happy when it happened. I am sure that many NB mains here thought that nerfing DKs corrosive was a great decision. Now, it finally hits you. Welcome to the club NBs.

Hold on... here we are comparing the real class skill of the NB that makes a PG an NB with a poorly thought out ultimate skill that has become OP?

But what do you see so OP in this skill? As many have said, a potion is enough to counteract it, if you don't use it or don't know how to use it at the right time it's not the fault of the NB ...

The corrosive mentioning was and example. The Dk identity was the tanky brawler with great DOT damage and great sustain. Now the class has no identity anymore, since all the classes are tanky with endless sustain and standard DOTs for everyone.

Regarding my personal opinion about the current state of cloak, it is boring to fight against it, since NBs can use it with almost no penalty. Yes, you can use detect pots but this is not even the discussion here. It is ok to use stealth to have a window of oportunity, but you should not be able to rinse and repeat cloack, incap and merciless.

Also, NBs still have the highest burst combo by far and will keep on top of PvP tier lists.

Tcholl

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

All the classes have lost their identity and most ppl were happy when it happened. I am sure that many NB mains here thought that nerfing DKs corrosive was a great decision. Now, it finally hits you. Welcome to the club NBs.

NB was already in that "club" a couple of times. Mostly during Elsweyr update and got out of this "club" somewhere after Greymoor. I guess next patch, the only class that won't be invited to this prestige "club" will be Sorc & Arcanist.

True

katorga

So how does this work?

I toggle invis on, moving around, and I come into range of a detect pot, does it automatically toggle off and stop the magicka drain, or am I visible and still burning magicka?

Tcholl

Oldaraness wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Where did anyone say you weren't allowed to be invisible? It's not like they got rid of cloak, it's just harder to use.

If you honestly think NBs are still fragile, that's a learn to play issue. They have access to one of the strongest burst heals in the game, AND have access to one of the strongest HoTs in the game (and I'm not even mentioning the VERY strong healing ultimate they have). They haven't been fragile in like 2 years.

Of course you can but don't say it's just more difficult because if when I get out of stealth I have zero resources and you with a nice DK tank you have suffered 30% damage with everything I can do... This is not making it difficult is making it unplayable.

If you play an NB as a tank, ok you're right, it's not fragile. But the NB is NOT a TANK. The class was born to hit hard and fast and, if discovered at the wrong time, be fragile, but a lot.

An increase in magicka cost could be enough to balance everything or an increase in resources if used within 3 seconds, like the Streak od the Sorc. The toggle is obscene, obscene. If they keep this change then bring the potions and skills to see the invisible at a lower range, 20mt, not 40mt.

The repeat penalty does nothing to Sorcs, since they keep streaking as if there is no tomorrow. With all due respect, that was a bad example.

Tcholl

argonian37 wrote: »

Maybe i’m biased. I dont know… I play in mac. As a nb, when im fighting a nb i select in the wheel the detect potion, use it and proceed to fight. Actually, 90% of nbs are not prepared for that, so is not only a counteraction. Like when you use that potion you turn over the fight. You now become the agresor and the nb cant operate their main defensive skill.
Is that so difficult in other platforms? Is easier to do that than to time a combo to kill a dk for example… I dont get whats the problem with using that potions. Yes, to fight nbs you have to slot that pots, to kill a tanky dk you have to do a combo, to kill a streaking sorc you have to slot a gap closer. Every class has its advantages and countertactics… like… is fair game. We cant ask to have jack of all trades solutions for every type of player, because that is not balance… thats boring.

That used to be true, now DKs are not nearly as tanky as Sorcs or tankier than any other class to be honest. All the classes have lost identity and gameplay at some degree. NBs are just part of the club. Many players complaining here have asked for nerfs to other classes that had the same results to other ppl gameplay or style. What goes around, comes around.

Tommy_The_Gun

argonian37 wrote: »

We cant ask to have jack of all trades solutions for every type of player, because that is not balance… thats boring.

Yeah, it is weird. ZOS made very strong hard counters and somehow, some people simply refuse to use it & instead complain. I mean it is silly to have countermeasures lying around & just ignore them.

- Sir ! Enemy armor incoming ! We have some bazookas. Can we use them ?
- No, withdraw to the nearest outpost. I will call high command to nerf the tank's armor so we can use our MGs. It will be easier.

I mean this is the kind of picture I am getting out of this whole situation. And tbh... it is kinda dangerous for this game as a whole.

I guess maybe it has something to do with some kind of society aspect and how people over time got more & more pretentious ? Idk.

But I do agree - ESO has this rock - paper - scissors aspect and dumbing down the game will just make it more boring.