The change of NB cloak will totally change this class, most fun part gone,

bladenick

Update Sep23
If range proc set stealth NB is major problem, just prevent caster go visibility after those proc effect triggered? For example, poison arrow, way of fire, sheer venom, let it force reveal caster’s invisible, then it solved problem and don’t ruin the class,

Make NB burst damage only possible in melee
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Update Sep 19
The most attractive part of ESO is freedom of build, we build character for certain play style, stealth class with perm cloak is one of style, it better adjust investment/reward ratio, for example increase cost of cloak, the player need invest more in mag recover, then he lost offense/defense, also the anti stealth skill could further strengthen, for example increasing detect radius or durations, that far more better than eliminate this play style entirely

Eliminating this kind of stealth player style, especially NB cloak which already exsit for 10 years and many many player get fun from it , it not good solution by any means


ZOS please don’t balance the game with WOW mindset, as dev always want to define how player play the game, and perfect balance equal unify, as all class lost identity and get similar
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Update Sep 18
This class lose identity , the dev seems aim at no stealth class in PVP, maybe for the incoming 2 side BG, to avoid 4 NB team and perm cloak

Need class redesign rather than only change the cloak which is core skill and all play style and build are base on this

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The change of shadow cloak is purely nerf to ground, and no counter compensation on other skill adjustments, all current play style shall either impossible or much more difficult


update:
1. once cast cloak, you go to "Invisible" status, it NOT auto switch to "Hide" status, unless you run out of Mana.
2. once cast cloak, the mana restore is 0, and drain mana 2xxx every 2 seconds, with 20k mana pool, you can only sustain invisible for 10 - 14 seconds.
3. Toggle off, need cast a skill which reveal "HIDE", or attack an enemy. refer to point 1, there no way to auto switch from "INVISIBLE" to "HIDE"

General impact: The stealth class gone in PVP ,it force NB to expose in blank sight and only cast shadow disguise when you want guaranteed critical, in 2 seconds and no more. As detect pot still 40m range, use it for escape is stupid as you burn mana under detect pot

the only vible NB build are range stem NB and melee tanker with other cloak morph, the former one could left all mana pool to cast Cloak, the later use other morph.
the mag NB range/melee is dead, it impossible to use mana to cast cloak and offence skill(spamable conceal weapon as example) at same time...because during invisible there 0 mana restore and drain mana constantly.

As incap and spectral bow designed as easy to miss, it expecting execution without notice by enemy, consequently incap will be useless as stealth approaches enemy with enough resource to release combo shall be hard core , because every body saw you in engage in combat then invisible in blank sight, every body know you need take action in 2 seconds, dare not to stay invisible more then 5 seconds, that to easy to counter.

currently melee NB need repeat cast cloak and approach enemy to release Incap, this play style is no more and if insist to do it will end at zero mana after incap







surpprisely the sorc hardward is not touched..(mistake here , get 33% healing nerf)

IncultaWolf

All the nightblades who crutched on shadowy disguise should just go swap to magsorc with hardened ward and streak if you are afraid to die

Aces-High-82

bladenick wrote: »

the change is even worst than ramp up cost , it make the cloak useless as you can only consider cast it 3 seconds advance before in contact with enemy, or it will drain you mana empty and you can do nothing.....it cause the current melee NB play style totally unplayable. after U44 change the only reason why we cast cloak is grant 2 sec ganrantee critical.



the change cause the stealth melee attack stun enemy very hardcore or almost impossible, we need only use cloak 5 seconds in advance when we prepared to attack, the typic senario is, stay 20m a way. and cast cloak, rush for stealth attack,(it will take all you mag if this spend more than 10 second), this change will totally kill the play style of melee NB, cast incap from invisible without notice by enemy is very luxury.

there also downside of operate, it not really a toggle on/off skill, if you re-cast it during shadow disguise, it wont toggle off it, just repeat cast animation and refresh the major resovle, you need sprint or cast skill or actuall attack someone to cancel this drain mana disguise status... it terrible in operation side

Range NB shall only way to play NB in U44. cloak is cast for gurantee critical, and also cast for retreat only if you already in distance.

Melee NB need some skill redesign or it will disappear in PVP, it required NB as same as other class to engage in melee bawler which is sucicde. cast cloak only in demand of gurantee critical, for escape, cast cloak in melee range for retract is sucicde, as it constantly drian mana, so you may dont have enough mana to cast burst healing, a detect pot will kill NB in melee range easily, as NB cannot cast cloak and burst heal at same time, or just run out mana with 1-2 cast,



surpprisely the sorc hardward is not touched... will join them...

33% nerf on hardened ward healing.....

moderatelyfatman

There's always stage 4 vamp invisibility for NB gankers. Just combine it with this....

spartaxoxo

The toggle also sucks for those who enjoyed stealth gameplay in PvE. Like, stealthing through heists and such is one of the most fun parts about Nightblades...

Cast_El

Do you know you can crouch on the game ?
You can crouch and just toogle shadow disguise is enemy is close to you. You also have set that decrease détection radius 👍

colossalvoids

So people wanted cloak gone finally got it, but we're still having cast times, longer ability travel times and overall nerfed kit to accompany it. I'm kinda happy to know the last class with some little identity left is finally "updated" to their modern standards in full, so can quit crutching on a thought that it would be my main gama one day again lol.

Cast_El

This is not a nerf. Toogle it, crouch, toogle it off. Job done 👍

noblecron

Ty ZOS! I've actually been wanting this to be a toggle for years. Only time I use nb cloak is either for rps or for running past mobs. Ty ty

Tommy_The_Gun

Funny thing is that by reading comments on various threads regarding cloak changes, you can clearly tell who played NB at least once lol.

bladenick

Cast_El wrote: »

Do you know you can crouch on the game ?
You can crouch and just toogle shadow disguise is enemy is close to you. You also have set that decrease détection radius 👍

you could try this in PTS.. either crouch or not wont toggle off shadow disguise, it draning mana whatever

Jaavaa

No one ask for this change 🤣 but ty zos 🙈🙈🙈

opethmaniac

bladenick wrote: »

Cast_El wrote: »

Do you know you can crouch on the game ?
You can crouch and just toogle shadow disguise is enemy is close to you. You also have set that decrease détection radius 👍

you could try this in PTS.. either crouch or not wont toggle off shadow disguise, it draning mana whatever

If this is true (i don't play on PTS) this has to be changed. It makes no sense to let the toggle on if you leave stealth.

Ash_ShadowDragon

From a 1vX standpoint this change doesn't really change anything, I just use Shadowy Disguise for the damage boost from vamp stage 2... like I only ever use this skill for a second or 2 at most, typically as a combo starter. Sure I also use it to reset fights and LOS, but again 2 seconds.... 3 maybe 4 tops.

This change where Shadowy Disguise is a toggle now is a direct nerf to gankers that relied on it far to much for get aways. For combo starters it can easily be used still as a melee or range ganker, its just when you fail to gank your target you will have a harder time getting away if the opponent doesnt have detect pots.

IMO as a NB main in PvP, its an interesting change and the only nerf I see is when its used as a get away tool which is typically done by gankers.... so a nerf to gankers, but doesnt really effect 1vX; yea Im for it.

ADarklore

Well, guess I'm glad I shelved my Nightblade a long time ago. One of my favorite things about it, was that I could avoid combat by just running past enemies... because sometimes you just don't want to deal with fighting enemies every five feet. It was pretty much the only reason I would play a Magblade was for Shadowy Disguise.

TDVM

NB is a strong class, it needed a nerf. It's a good decision.

Jsmalls

Y'all know siphoning strikes lines up perfectly with the cost per 2 seconds right?

You can still Perma stealth with a heal that doesn't pop invis. And if you have a potion up you can definitely stay stealthed for 30+ seconds easily.

All the Sorcs thought the world was ending when they changed Ward from 20 seconds to 6 seconds. Everyone adapted.

Cloak has been overdue for an adjustment.

Tommy_The_Gun

Jsmalls wrote: »

Y'all know siphoning strikes lines up perfectly with the cost per 2 seconds right?

You can still Perma stealth with a heal that doesn't pop invis. And if you have a potion up you can definitely stay stealthed for 30+ seconds easily.

All the Sorcs thought the world was ending when they changed Ward from 20 seconds to 6 seconds. Everyone adapted.

Cloak has been overdue for an adjustment.

What is the healing ability you are taking about exactly ? As far as I am aware, all healing abilities do interupt invisibility/crouch stealth when casted. Is there healing skill that does not break invisibility/crouch stealth ? I know you can use potions and it will not break it, but I am not aware of any skill.

At best it is a stop gap solution and... it is even more awkward than costing cloak every 2.9 seconds (live server). I mean you have to activate cloak, then press a button every 2 seconds to get magicka back and carefully watch not only if cloak is still active (as random mob can even decide to detect you) but also you need to watch your health bar... yeah... they sure made cloak more accessible...

Min-maxing veteran mag nb will somehow adapt bur every one else is left in the dust lol.

StarOfElyon

It's just old mist form.

Jsmalls

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Y'all know siphoning strikes lines up perfectly with the cost per 2 seconds right?

You can still Perma stealth with a heal that doesn't pop invis. And if you have a potion up you can definitely stay stealthed for 30+ seconds easily.

All the Sorcs thought the world was ending when they changed Ward from 20 seconds to 6 seconds. Everyone adapted.

Cloak has been overdue for an adjustment.

What is the healing ability you are taking about exactly ? As far as I am aware, all healing abilities do interupt invisibility/crouch stealth when casted. Is there healing skill that does not break invisibility/crouch stealth ? I know you can use potions and it will not break it, but I am not aware of any skill.

At best it is a stop gap solution and... it is even more awkward than costing cloak every 2.9 seconds (live server). I mean you have to activate cloak, then press a button every 2 seconds to get magicka back and carefully watch not only if cloak is still active (as random mob can even decide to detect you) but also you need to watch your health bar... yeah... they sure made cloak more accessible...

Min-maxing veteran mag nb will somehow adapt bur every one else is left in the dust lol.

@Tommy_The_Gun

2-Hander skill Rally does not pull you out of stealth, I haven't done significant testing to see if there are other abilities.

Even if you casted Siphoning every 4 seconds you'd double the time you are able to be stealthed. And for the initial cast (depending on your resources) you can hold off on casting siphon until it's needed.

Luke_Flamesword

By reading posts someone can think that ZOS completely delete invisibility but it's still there, only rules are changed.

Yeah, it's nerf for PvP but let's be honest - most nightblades overuses it. It's one thing to have such a option (which is still a big deal, even after changes) and other thing is to have invisibility to use almost every time whenever you want. It was just to easy and lazy option.

Now you can still use to gank, you can still use to flee but you can't use for constant fighting and fleeing same target which was annoying and unfair. Nightbaldes wants to have their cake and eat it. You have advantage that you can gank enemy, kill it or make serious damage BEFORE fight even starts. That's your class identity and you can keep it. But you also want option to disappear at any moment and fight back whenever it's convinient for you and that was too much.

There are sets which grants generation when you crouch so you can have it, but you have to built around it - so you must choose betweeen more invisibility or damage which is healthy.

Anifaas

I wonder who will be the next to have their colour drained from them?

Tommy_The_Gun

Anifaas wrote: »

I wonder who will be the next to have their colour drained from them?

Unfortunately, it does not seem to "drain" stuff from overperforming things. ZOS does not have a pattern here. It seems random. It may be stuff like Werewolf or Consuming Darkness getting some nerfs (stuff that is considered a meme, it is that bad), but it might as well be Arcanist or Sorc... it is random...

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

By reading posts someone can think that ZOS completely delete invisibility but it's still there, only rules are changed.

Yeah, it's nerf for PvP but let's be honest - most nightblades overuses it. It's one thing to have such a option (which is still a big deal, even after changes) and other thing is to have invisibility to use almost every time whenever you want. It was just to easy and lazy option.

Now you can still use to gank, you can still use to flee but you can't use for constant fighting and fleeing same target which was annoying and unfair. Nightbaldes wants to have their cake and eat it. You have advantage that you can gank enemy, kill it or make serious damage BEFORE fight even starts. That's your class identity and you can keep it. But you also want option to disappear at any moment and fight back whenever it's convinient for you and that was too much.

There are sets which grants generation when you crouch so you can have it, but you have to built around it - so you must choose betweeen more invisibility or damage which is healthy.

The issue is that after next patch (assuming it will go live exactly how it is now on PTS), cloak will be only useable on a handfull of magicka NB builds. They want to make the skill more accessible, but at the same time it will be too short to be even useable in PvE questing for most NB builds.

Ishtarknows

Console player so can't test it, but does Darloc Brae still proc while Shadowy Disguise is toggled on?

I don't PvP NB but do enjoy the sneaky side of PvE and that set is a mainstay for me

BenTSG

This is an interesting change. I'm a NB main meself, but I am pretty interested in this. I did think Cloak could have been fun as a toggle instead, but this cost change feels....somewhat decent. It's a LOT better then just doing a ramping cost. Of course I don't play the PTS so I will have to see how it actually feels and works in conjunction with normal crouching and being pulled out of cloak so it could end up terrible in some situations, but honestly I think I am fine with this, at least in It's theory. The only downside I see is it's not a bit harder catered to Magicka builds, where as it is now, Stam builds can still use it well.

Aurielle

Ishtarknows wrote: »

Console player so can't test it, but does Darloc Brae still proc while Shadowy Disguise is toggled on?

I don't PvP NB but do enjoy the sneaky side of PvE and that set is a mainstay for me

If you enjoy the sneaky side of PVE, you will still enjoy NB (assuming they don't tweak it further). Here you go:

https://youtu.be/OHiQLEl4i0Q

This is with a Darloc Brae back bar. You can clearly see it working. I thought it might have been a bug before, as I assumed any set affecting magicka recovery / magicka gain would be disabled by Shadowy Disguise, but that's not the case here. Crouching before activating Shadowy Disguise while running Darloc Brae is less punishing than it is if you don't crouch.

albertberku

I can confirm you can travel whole Cyrodiil (with base Magicka Recovery) in Cloak with Rally + Siphoning while gaining Magicka in the meantime, because i do it

Shadowasrial

This is possibly the worst change for Nb ever. Everyone wants to dump on nd cloak as saying it’s overpowered but fail to realize that nb kit has never had super strong heals that were meant for sustained fights. (Yes you have other skill lines but they require you to use weapons that conflict with the weapons primarily used for damage thus nerfing your dps output.) but I’m talking strictly the nb skill lines. We have no real good heal. So cloak was a way to give our healing a chance to tick, as well as escape and redirect the fight by either reengaging or disengaging depending on whether we could take on said opponent. On top of that our primary damage dealing ultimate is trash compared to every other classes primary damage dealing ultimate. (Easily missed, easily blocked, minimal range, and no real ability to apply pressure to the target when cast. So many of the other classes ultimates are undodgable, unblockable, have a serious damage over time in addition to the hard hitting initial damage (the pressure I was speaking of) and still buff the player or greatly debuff the target. Look at dragon leap. Does a ton of damage, has huge range, flings you into the air is undodgable applies a stun after the fact your knocked back as well. Or they get a damage shield for the other morph.
So now you want to turn our only way to effectively line up an effective burst combo with our ultimate into a toggle ability. Which will more than likely still be negated by casting other skills and broken by others damage. On top of that our magic recovery is disabled.
Thanks I just might quit eso now if this goes live. I only play nb and have for 10 years. And I can tell you this will gut nb and kill any chance for a stealthy strike from shadows form of gameplay in PvP

EF321

Why not keep mechanic as is (spam for perma invis) and just disable regen while you are in cloak? Toggle just feels weird on ability that can be used actively to guarantee crit or evade direct attack.

Tommy_The_Gun

ZOS: We want to make cloak more accessible and eiser to use.

The Result :

Aurielle wrote: »

https://youtu.be/OHiQLEl4i0Q

I mean it really does sound like some kind of crazy over engineered & over complicated steam machine contraption making all kinds of cartoony noises. LOL

- Why are you so loud ?
- Cuz I am trying to sneak ! ! ! XD

The nerf is bad, but this is just plain hilarious at this point lol I mean, for sure, they made it easier lol
I mean, yes... sure. This is what PvE casual players want for sure.This is how "easier" looks like

Badass voice: "Oh, I am just gone press more buttons and A+B+ UP+Down combo for more magicka & longer cloak... cuz it is easier... !
Thanks... I am laughing so hard right now.... You made my day...

bladenick

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ZOS: We want to make cloak more accessible and eiser to use.

The Result :

Aurielle wrote: »

https://youtu.be/OHiQLEl4i0Q

I mean it really does sound like some kind of crazy over engineered & over complicated steam machine contraption making all kinds of cartoony noises. LOL

- Why are you so loud ?
- I am trying to sneak ! ! ! XD

The nerf is bad, but this is just plain hilarious at this point lol I mean, for sure, they made it easier lol

it pve , you get health regen, it some how managable, tested in PVP area, no way to sustain invisible, you can not cast it when you are out of combat, becasue you will soon found you run out of mana when the real combat start..

the only playstye for PVP, get in combat in without hiding, only cast it when you want gauranteed critical, or escape... acutally, it dangous as cast it for excape, because you will easily found you run out of mana, then a 10 seconds 40m detect pot will kill you.