ZOS, Massive Spike in Ping/LAG in Recent Days - What Gives?

Destai

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, we have a brief update for you on this issue. We are continuing to plug away at investigations related to the performance issues highlighted in this thread. After a call with our leadership team, we have a few more criteria for our engineers to look at. So we need some additional information from you. Some of you have provided some of this information before, but we have a few new questions to ask. Please make sure to note the information in the order listed below. Makes it easier to send feedback when it is formatted the same way.

Updating again because I had some more severe symptoms last night, after the launch of Golden Pursuits. The symptoms were intermittent over the course the day & evening.

• What server do you play on? PlayStation NA, on a PS5. Directly wired into modem with 1gb fiber internet.
• What zones are you experiencing performance issues in? Experienced a lot of lag in overland (Blackwood, Coldharbour), some delves, and dungeons (fungal grotto). Mostly input lag - like light attack animations being delayed, light attacks happening with no or delayed sound, skills firing out of order or with 2+ seconds delay. Enemies would also die with a delay of 2-3 seconds.
• Have you experienced the same performance issues without add-ons? N/A, console doesn't have add-ons.
• Do you experience performance issues noted in this thread outside of combat? Yes. Previously, experienced lag with NPCs and players rubberbanding or "teleporting" around. Last night, experienced a bout of severe UI unresponsiveness, where I couldn't even log off or assign skill points. Logging off resolved that issue in particular, but other UI issues persisted. Basic UI actions also experienced delay of several seconds. I've also experienced times where my character is walking or running and randomly slows down and speeds back up.
• Are you or your group mates using scripted abilities when experiencing performance issues? No.
• If you remember any previous tickets you've submitted on this issue, please note them here. N/A. Tickets and videos don't receive the views needed to resolve this.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Additionally, we are working on getting some of your questions in this thread answered. This will take some time, so no ETA at the moment. Thanks again for your patience as we continue to work through this.

@ZOS_Kevin Just being honest here, feels like these questions are being ignored:

1. What's been tested so far?
2. What's currently being tested?
3. What's the internal priority & severity?

It's pretty frustrating asking you guys respectful, professional questions only for them to be largely unacknowledged or unanswered. Comes across as very disrespectful. Any other line of technical work is going to expect incremental progress updates. I don't think a game should be any different. If ZOS doesn't feel like they can or should answer these questions, it's way better to be transparent about that.

And just to get ahead of the "we passed it along" and "we see but can't always respond" kind of responses - not directly answering questions is ignoring them. Ultimately, we need our questions directly answered, and not "something to address the sentiment" like we've gotten in times past.

All of this comes from a constructive, albeit extremely frustrated, place.

LadyGP

This kind of communication isn't helping anyone.



I've yet to hear of one person that those troubleshooting stepped resolved the issues well documented in this thread. Not only that - putting out "help" like that continues to compound the frustration and make the end user think it is an issue on their side that can be fixed.

I say that as someone who literally spend thousands on upgrades both PC/Network related in hopes it would solve my ESO issue. It didn't make a dent in performance.

Rishikesa108

Since the launch of Golden Pursuit, I've been experiencing a few moments where the ping gets to 999+, the character stops and can't interact with anything. It happened to me once yesterday during a dungeon, luckily it then unlocked allowing me to finish the dungeon itself; and once today, when I was just interacting with my bank, but for a few moments everything stopped and I couldn't do anything.

LadyGP

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Since the launch of Golden Pursuit, I've been experiencing a few moments where the ping gets to 999+, the character stops and can't interact with anything. It happened to me once yesterday during a dungeon, luckily it then unlocked allowing me to finish the dungeon itself; and once today, when I was just interacting with my bank, but for a few moments everything stopped and I couldn't do anything.

Welcome to the thread! Take joy in knowing you're not alone and there are tons of us out there with the same issue.

Honestly, many people don't even realize it is happening to them. Think about how many times they have to go up and interact with something 2 or 3 times for it to work. Do they come on the forums and say something - no.

Think about how many times people fire skills at adds or light/heavy attack and it doesn't go off or lags a bit and they don't really notice... do they come here to report it... no.

The vast majority of the people who come here are hardcore end game content people.

This issue is much more widespread than we/ZoS believe it to be.

Soriana

@ZOS_Kevin

• What server do you play on? PC-NA
• What zones are you experiencing performance issues in? Lag is in pretty much every zone, delve, dungeon, and trial. It seems to come and go in each instance although it is definitely the worst in trials. Last night, in Sunspire, starting at 9pm ET, I crashed before getting in the door. At Lokke we had 4-5 crashes one right after the other, some the same people and others different.
• Have you experienced the same performance issues without add-ons? Yes
• Do you experience performance issues noted in this thread outside of combat? Yes. I can simply be riding across the terrain to a location and get rubberbanded back, sometimes once, sometimes multiple times.
• Are you or your group mates using scripted abilities when experiencing performance issues? Yes. Usually the Banner script.
• If you remember any previous tickets you've submitted on this issue, please note them here. Have not submitted any tickets as it is usually a waste of time. They either never get responded to or get a generic reply.

Servadei

PC NA
Booted from server right after harvesting the first node of a survey

Jaraal

Servadei wrote: »

PC NA
Booted from server right after harvesting the first node of a survey

Yeah I still get survey lag almost every day. Harvest a couple, then the [E] key is grayed out. No interaction possible for several seconds. And if you start spamming the [E] key, you get kicked for sending "too many messages" to the server.

manukartofanu

Got kicked today about 5 times, the worst day in the past 3 months. Feels like I'm back among the players who are unlucky enough to get kicked out frequently.

Coo_PnT

Why don't you spend some time on performance and bug fixes instead of adding new content for a while?

There are fewer and fewer people. This issue as well as the 2024 update was so poor (housing and BG) that it was very discouraging. And the strike of ZeniMax employees against Microsoft. The list of problems is endless.

Can we expect anything else?

twev

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

I watch the monthly counts on steam trend down and I worry about this game. Next drop following current pattern takes them to low numbers they've not had since 2018

They are at their lowest count in years and people are still having problems? I suppose it's not server overload then....

Server capacity is a leased asset and obviously costs money.
You assume server capacity is at least equal to it's 2018 state.
It may very well be, but we don't know it hasn't been reduced as population drops.
There are claims that ZOS/Bethesda temporarily increases server capacity for events, it's not a stretch to assume that the server capacity could be reduced to match inevitable predicted reduced population as games age. It's entirely possible that they can reduce capacity slightly faster than predicted population is actually dropping at any given time. It took them years to schedule timely hardware replacement even before Covid caused supply issues.

I don't claim to have inside knowledge of the inner workings of ZOS or Bethesda, but business is business, costs are a factor in any business and are adjusted all the time as conditions change.

Sarannah

Maybe ZOS should try fully disabling all add-ons for a week, see if that helps. Or atleast helps with the lag/delay/disconnects some are experiencing.

PS: I feel these should all be fully disabled in PvP anyways.

twev

Sarannah wrote: »

Maybe ZOS should try fully disabling all add-ons for a week, see if that helps. Or atleast helps with the lag/delay/disconnects some are experiencing.

PS: I feel these should all be fully disabled in PvP anyways.

They'd just need to let the PC community know which week half the player base wouldn't log in for anything but the daily drop.

meekmiko

Sarannah wrote: »

Maybe ZOS should try fully disabling all add-ons for a week, see if that helps. Or atleast helps with the lag/delay/disconnects some are experiencing.

PS: I feel these should all be fully disabled in PvP anyways.

Would you care to explain how console users, who don't even have access to ANY add-ons whatsoever, are experiencing the same exact problems? Lag/Skill Delay/Disconnects?

Edited to add: Also, I'd like to add that certain add-ons do already turn themselves off whenever you enter PvP lands and re-enable when you land back outside of them.

KaironBlackbard

twev wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

I watch the monthly counts on steam trend down and I worry about this game. Next drop following current pattern takes them to low numbers they've not had since 2018

They are at their lowest count in years and people are still having problems? I suppose it's not server overload then....

Server capacity is a leased asset and obviously costs money.
You assume server capacity is at least equal to it's 2018 state.
It may very well be, but we don't know it hasn't been reduced as population drops.
There are claims that ZOS/Bethesda temporarily increases server capacity for events, it's not a stretch to assume that the server capacity could be reduced to match inevitable predicted reduced population as games age. It's entirely possible that they can reduce capacity slightly faster than predicted population is actually dropping at any given time. It took them years to schedule timely hardware replacement even before Covid caused supply issues.

I don't claim to have inside knowledge of the inner workings of ZOS or Bethesda, but business is business, costs are a factor in any business and are adjusted all the time as conditions change.

Reducing server capacity BEFORE the population reduces is a bad idea. That could cause these types of issues. They shouldn't reduce until the population reduces, that way they can handle all the players.

KaironBlackbard

Sarannah wrote: »

Maybe ZOS should try fully disabling all add-ons for a week, see if that helps. Or atleast helps with the lag/delay/disconnects some are experiencing.

PS: I feel these should all be fully disabled in PvP anyways.

Some addons have minimal effect. However, they can be powerful on the user's end in their perspective.
Examples:
TTC
Lorebooks
Map Pins

I also use USPF sometimes.

Plus, TTC is the only way people know how to really price their items, otherwise they are flying blind.

LadyGP

Coo_PnT wrote: »

Why don't you spend some time on performance and bug fixes instead of adding new content for a while?

There are fewer and fewer people. This issue as well as the 2024 update was so poor (housing and BG) that it was very discouraging. And the strike of ZeniMax employees against Microsoft. The list of problems is endless.

Can we expect anything else?

ESOs model has shifted to a sustainment stage - keep the lights on until the next game comes out. Content is the way they will do that, crown store items (which is why you've seen a massive push towards making people spend money in the crown store for things), etc. Yes, they will still work on bugs here and there but for the true performance fixes, like code reworks or engine upgrades, those are out of the question at this stage in the games lifecycle.

Sarannah wrote: »

Maybe ZOS should try fully disabling all add-ons for a week, see if that helps. Or atleast helps with the lag/delay/disconnects some are experiencing.

PS: I feel these should all be fully disabled in PvP anyways.

Add-ons aren't the issue and there is more than enough people in this thread to confirm that... it's a ZoS side issue. Period.

LadyGP wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

I watch the monthly counts on steam trend down and I worry about this game. Next drop following current pattern takes them to low numbers they've not had since 2018

They are at their lowest count in years and people are still having problems? I suppose it's not server overload then....

Nope. It's not a "to many people are playing" problem... it's something deep within the Engine (I make this claim based on a few assumptions and talking with friends who are network engineers and sprinkling in my years of being a Senior Software Engineer).

I think it's fairly safe to say it's not something on the surface at a code level or a hardware issue that could easily be replaced. So that leaves the engine itself or Akamai. Honestly, I'm now leaning towards the Engine being the cause and it's showing itself as an Akamai issue. In short - they are trying to add a new corvette engine (Akamai) into a beater honda and it's just not working - which honestly this could be said for any new system being added to the game.

Because it's such a deep level and if it truly is an Engine issue... this isn't something they can fix without swapping engines (which I can't see any reasonable person in leadership checking off on this investment given the remaining lifespan of this game... I mean I wouldn't if I was in their shoes).

Which leads to the last point. What do they do about it. Do they come out and say it's the engine and they can't do anything about it? If they did this... those on the fence of ending their subs would pull the trigger so they clearly can't outright come out and do it.

So then what? All that I can see remaining is playing the string along game.. which no disrespect...ZoS has mastered over the years. Given this is 7 months old... 80+ posts.... ~2.5k replies and ~110,000 views... I think we have entered that stage.

Say just enough to give hope but not enough to give answers.

This post is in NO way throwing shade/disrespect at ZoS or anyone who has been handling these issues. This is just a raw...transparent..honest perception of things as I see them through my own experiences of playing this game non stop since beta.

@ZOS_Kevin again... ZERO disrespect... did I sum things up accurately at all or am I way off base?

@ZOS_Kevin how come the updates have just stopped. How many weeks/months does it take to get leadership to answer some questions? The "vibe" for many months has been that ZoS is just waiting for this thread to die down so it's not a problem you all have to address anymore. Continued lack of action and failure to really address anything 7 months in is not helping shift that narrative.

ZOS_Kevin

LadyGP wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin how come the updates have just stopped. How many weeks/months does it take to get leadership to answer some questions? The "vibe" for many months has been that ZoS is just waiting for this thread to die down so it's not a problem you all have to address anymore. Continued lack of action and failure to really address anything 7 months in is not helping shift that narrative.

If we wanted the thread to die, we would have closed the thread months ago, so please know that we are working on this. No one wants this to go unanswered. I just had a meeting with a new set of engineers yesterday who are now taking lead on this investigation. They are reviewing data that we have gotten from you to see if they need anything else to aid their efforts. As for the questions, will circle back with the team who is taking point answering them.

We just don't have any current update outside of what we have given already. Trust me, once I have new information, this thread will be the first to know.

LadyGP

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin how come the updates have just stopped. How many weeks/months does it take to get leadership to answer some questions? The "vibe" for many months has been that ZoS is just waiting for this thread to die down so it's not a problem you all have to address anymore. Continued lack of action and failure to really address anything 7 months in is not helping shift that narrative.

If we wanted the thread to die, we would have closed the thread months ago, so please know that we are working on this. No one wants this to go unanswered. I just had a meeting with a new set of engineers yesterday who are now taking lead on this investigation. They are reviewing data that we have gotten from you to see if they need anything else to aid their efforts. As for the questions, will circle back with the team who is taking point answering them.

We just don't have any current update outside of what we have given already. Trust me, once I have new information, this thread will be the first to know.

Copy that.

Destai

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

If we wanted the thread to die, we would have closed the thread months ago, so please know that we are working on this. No one wants this to go unanswered.

This is why I keep asking you guys for interim status updates. If you don't want people to get the impression that nothing's being worked on, then more information is needed. It sounds like you guys have a stricter definition of what can/should be shared, and I really don't feel like it's helped the situation.

So let's take a step back. Obviously, the issue has changed hands a few times. Telling us what they've tested or even the basic question of "how big of an issue is it" will go miles. Answering concerns back to us in a formatted way, which I've given you a few times now, will go miles in turning down the heat for you and giving us some comfort. Am I wrong?

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

I just had a meeting with a new set of engineers yesterday who are now taking lead on this investigation. They are reviewing data that we have gotten from you to see if they need anything else to aid their efforts.

Knowing that the first set(s) of engineers were hitting a wall should've been a status update. Can you tell us what happened with the first set(s) of engineers?

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

As for the questions, will circle back with the team who is taking point answering them.

I don't know your organization, but I feel like you could just look at JIRA and tell us what it's in sprint, right? You're having conversations with engineers, can't those conversations be sanitized and slotted into the format I've provided?

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We just don't have any current update outside of what we have given already. Trust me, once I have new information, this thread will be the first to know.

It sounds like you do though. If you're at the point where the issue is changing hands again, then the background on that reassignment should be a status update. What the teams are testing should be a status update, even if it's not the final solution.

KaironBlackbard

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin how come the updates have just stopped. How many weeks/months does it take to get leadership to answer some questions? The "vibe" for many months has been that ZoS is just waiting for this thread to die down so it's not a problem you all have to address anymore. Continued lack of action and failure to really address anything 7 months in is not helping shift that narrative.

If we wanted the thread to die, we would have closed the thread months ago, so please know that we are working on this. No one wants this to go unanswered. I just had a meeting with a new set of engineers yesterday who are now taking lead on this investigation. They are reviewing data that we have gotten from you to see if they need anything else to aid their efforts. As for the questions, will circle back with the team who is taking point answering them.

We just don't have any current update outside of what we have given already. Trust me, once I have new information, this thread will be the first to know.

One Idea: Temporarily ban the use of Bandits UI for a month and see if anything is fixed.
There might also be others like it causing strain on the hardware due to reaching through it to grab information to display to its user. Also I feel like there should be a setting to deny others addons from doing that.
I had to have a random tank disable his Bandits addon because it was autopinging and causing a strain on my machine.
If that also fixes the consoles having issues... There must be server overlap or something, even though there's no crossplay.

Just a thought.

If it has no effect, unban it so people don't cry bloody murder about it.

LadyGP

Destai wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

If we wanted the thread to die, we would have closed the thread months ago, so please know that we are working on this. No one wants this to go unanswered.

This is why I keep asking you guys for interim status updates. If you don't want people to get the impression that nothing's being worked on, then more information is needed. It sounds like you guys have a stricter definition of what can/should be shared, and I really don't feel like it's helped the situation.

So let's take a step back. Obviously, the issue has changed hands a few times. Telling us what they've tested or even the basic question of "how big of an issue is it" will go miles. Answering concerns back to us in a formatted way, which I've given you a few times now, will go miles in turning down the heat for you and giving us some comfort. Am I wrong?

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

I just had a meeting with a new set of engineers yesterday who are now taking lead on this investigation. They are reviewing data that we have gotten from you to see if they need anything else to aid their efforts.

Knowing that the first set(s) of engineers were hitting a wall should've been a status update. Can you tell us what happened with the first set(s) of engineers?

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

As for the questions, will circle back with the team who is taking point answering them.

I don't know your organization, but I feel like you could just look at JIRA and tell us what it's in sprint, right? You're having conversations with engineers, can't those conversations be sanitized and slotted into the format I've provided?

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We just don't have any current update outside of what we have given already. Trust me, once I have new information, this thread will be the first to know.

It sounds like you do though. If you're at the point where the issue is changing hands again, then the background on that reassignment should be a status update. What the teams are testing should be a status update, even if it's not the final solution.

Thank you, I had to take a deep breath after Kevins reply because I didn't want to get banned. This is a good explanation of my frustrations.

LadyGP

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin how come the updates have just stopped. How many weeks/months does it take to get leadership to answer some questions? The "vibe" for many months has been that ZoS is just waiting for this thread to die down so it's not a problem you all have to address anymore. Continued lack of action and failure to really address anything 7 months in is not helping shift that narrative.

If we wanted the thread to die, we would have closed the thread months ago, so please know that we are working on this. No one wants this to go unanswered. I just had a meeting with a new set of engineers yesterday who are now taking lead on this investigation. They are reviewing data that we have gotten from you to see if they need anything else to aid their efforts. As for the questions, will circle back with the team who is taking point answering them.

We just don't have any current update outside of what we have given already. Trust me, once I have new information, this thread will be the first to know.

One Idea: Temporarily ban the use of Bandits UI for a month and see if anything is fixed.
There might also be others like it causing strain on the hardware due to reaching through it to grab information to display to its user. Also I feel like there should be a setting to deny others addons from doing that.
I had to have a random tank disable his Bandits addon because it was autopinging and causing a strain on my machine.
If that also fixes the consoles having issues... There must be server overlap or something, even though there's no crossplay.

Just a thought.

If it has no effect, unban it so people don't cry bloody murder about it.

I can already hear the cries the second they disable it. Won't happen.

smackinhippies

I don't know why people keep bringing up add-on's as a possible source of the issue, it's clearly not and seem like an attempt to muddy the thread. BOTH console platforms are having the same exact issues with lag, rubber-banding, skills misfiring, and disconnects this whole time and they don't have add-ons. Not to mention numerous PC players have the issue with or without them.

Seravi

Well I have to LOL right now. I cancelled my sub and the day after it ran out I can't even stay in the game long enough to manage my inventory. I try to log in and get the Login Incorrect error even though the password is correct. I log in again with the same password and I get into the game. I am standing there in my inventory trying to manage all the overage I have and I get kicked out for INCORRECT LOGIN, while i was IN THE GAME. Really glad I cancelled for sure. And yes I check the routes, etc and it is my usual 2-3ms with no packet loss to the server or login iP.

As for the add-ons debate I played PC/NA with no add-ons. Never use them with games. Maybe some cause issues but I doubt they are the reason for what most are seeing here.

Welp back to my other game. Not fighting with these issues to manage my horrible, large ten year inventory. Wish you guys all the best!!

LadyGP

smackinhippies wrote: »

I don't know why people keep brining up add-on's as a possible source of the issue, it's clearly not and seem like an attempt to muddy the thread. BOTH console platforms are having the same exact issues with lag, rubber-banding, skills misfiring, and disconnects this whole time and they don't have add-ons. Not to mention numerous PC players have the issue with or without them.

Kind of like the people who come here and say the game works great for me no issues.

Destai

LadyGP wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

If we wanted the thread to die, we would have closed the thread months ago, so please know that we are working on this. No one wants this to go unanswered.

This is why I keep asking you guys for interim status updates. If you don't want people to get the impression that nothing's being worked on, then more information is needed. It sounds like you guys have a stricter definition of what can/should be shared, and I really don't feel like it's helped the situation.

So let's take a step back. Obviously, the issue has changed hands a few times. Telling us what they've tested or even the basic question of "how big of an issue is it" will go miles. Answering concerns back to us in a formatted way, which I've given you a few times now, will go miles in turning down the heat for you and giving us some comfort. Am I wrong?

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

I just had a meeting with a new set of engineers yesterday who are now taking lead on this investigation. They are reviewing data that we have gotten from you to see if they need anything else to aid their efforts.

Knowing that the first set(s) of engineers were hitting a wall should've been a status update. Can you tell us what happened with the first set(s) of engineers?

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

As for the questions, will circle back with the team who is taking point answering them.

I don't know your organization, but I feel like you could just look at JIRA and tell us what it's in sprint, right? You're having conversations with engineers, can't those conversations be sanitized and slotted into the format I've provided?

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We just don't have any current update outside of what we have given already. Trust me, once I have new information, this thread will be the first to know.

It sounds like you do though. If you're at the point where the issue is changing hands again, then the background on that reassignment should be a status update. What the teams are testing should be a status update, even if it's not the final solution.

Thank you, I had to take a deep breath after Kevins reply because I didn't want to get banned. This is a good explanation of my frustrations.

Yeah, I feel you. I definitely had to reword it a few times. I'm trying really hard to be constructive and help this issue along. Big part of the frustration is I feel like I'm not being understood or engaged. Looking back at this thread, it seems like he drops in once in a while and then is gone until the next update.

Really asking for more engagement here @ZOS_Kevin. Given you a lot of suggestions in this thread - can you address them please?

FadeShade

Frequent load-screens randomly appearing in dungeons. short duration but they are disconcerting and obviously stall play. Fewer disconnects on pceu but pcna continues to lag with skills not firing, like combat prayer taking several keypresses.

What sort of effect is all this AI chat-screening having on performance? Are there other things happening on the servers monitoring other stuff we should be aware of that may also affect performance?

Tandor

I totally respect Kevin's position on this, he's a Community Manager and can only post what he's been told and given clearance to post. He's not a technical guy, and therein lies the problem as this is a purely technical thread dealing with a purely technical issue.

I feel that what is needed now is for one of the technical guys dealing with this issue to be authorised to come here and post regular updates on what they've already done, what they're doing currently, what else they are considering doing, and just how critical and common their logs show this issue to be.

Otherwise things are just going to carry on the same, no information and an occasional Community Manager update that contains no real update at all.

LadyGP

Tandor wrote: »

I totally respect Kevin's position on this, he's a Community Manager and can only post what he's been told and given clearance to post. He's not a technical guy, and therein lies the problem as this is a purely technical thread dealing with a purely technical issue.

I feel that what is needed now is for one of the technical guys dealing with this issue to be authorised to come here and post regular updates on what they've already done, what they're doing currently, what else they are considering doing, and just how critical and common their logs show this issue to be.

Otherwise things are just going to carry on the same, no information and an occasional Community Manager update that contains no real update at all.

I said something along these lines 5 months ago.

KaironBlackbard

smackinhippies wrote: »

I don't know why people keep bringing up add-on's as a possible source of the issue, it's clearly not and seem like an attempt to muddy the thread. BOTH console platforms are having the same exact issues with lag, rubber-banding, skills misfiring, and disconnects this whole time and they don't have add-ons. Not to mention numerous PC players have the issue with or without them.

If PC and Console are run on the same hardware, even if they can't play together, then infothieving addons (like Bandits UI) can be compromising the connection.