Excuse me?

TKo_ROUSE · April 23

Dragonnord wrote: »

Hatchet, one question, what with people that went into the PTS just for the sake of going there, not with the will to test anything and provide any feedback at all (there are plenty of those players, even in my guild that just go there to see whetever because they were bored, they didn't like the live event, etc.) and that were not going to participate in the anniversary event do the farming of the style pages, don't care about this and that, don't mind or do endeavors at all, don't care and fail to claim daily rewards, etc.

Is it fair that all those players that stepped in for some short time in the PTS to do nothing there get all the free rewards when they were really not going to obtain on their own becase of lack of will or interest?

Whether we report anything or not they are still collecting data from the PTS. A big part of the PTS is for people to report bugs and feedback. So someone logged into PTS to check the new housing. Okay everything looks great they don't say anything. This is data ZOS can use to assume that things are working as intended. On the flipside if someone buys the house and ports in and falls through the map, they will probably open a bug report or post on forums. Now ZOS has data showing they need to investigate it.

The rest of your point really makes no sense. You do realize people can participate on live and on PTS? For example I logged in to get some settings set, make setups, test addons so I could run a test of the trial later to check it out. I was literally playing on live every day before that, doing writs daily, farmed all event pages, doing pledges with friends. So I am not sure I see the point? It isn't like once you play PTS your live account is locked. Well it use to not be like that o.0

Dragonnord · April 23

TKo_ROUSE wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Hatchet, one question, what with people that went into the PTS just for the sake of going there, not with the will to test anything and provide any feedback at all (there are plenty of those players, even in my guild that just go there to see whetever because they were bored, they didn't like the live event, etc.) and that were not going to participate in the anniversary event do the farming of the style pages, don't care about this and that, don't mind or do endeavors at all, don't care and fail to claim daily rewards, etc.

Is it fair that all those players that stepped in for some short time in the PTS to do nothing there get all the free rewards when they were really not going to obtain on their own becase of lack of will or interest?

Whether we report anything or not they are still collecting data from the PTS. A big part of the PTS is for people to report bugs and feedback. So someone logged into PTS to check the new housing. Okay everything looks great they don't say anything. This is data ZOS can use to assume that things are working as intended. On the flipside if someone buys the house and ports in and falls through the map, they will probably open a bug report or post on forums. Now ZOS has data showing they need to investigate it.

The rest of your point really makes no sense. You do realize people can participate on live and on PTS? For example I logged in to get some settings set, make setups, test addons so I could run a test of the trial later to check it out. I was literally playing on live every day before that, doing writs daily, farmed all event pages, doing pledges with friends. So I am not sure I see the point? It isn't like once you play PTS your live account is locked. Well it use to not be like that o.0

First, I asked HatchetHaro (he reads and pays attention, you clearly didn't understand the point of what I said).

I know players that are laughing and celebrating now because they logged in to the PTS to do NOTHING at all, just went there for mins and logged out because they were bored.

There is even this guild mate that went into the PTS the day before going on holidays for a week, so he was not even going to login to the game at all, and came back to see that she got EVERYTHING for going on holidays. She was not even going to login to play the game.

Shara_Wynn · April 23

hiyde wrote: »

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

Anything else, such as asking for the new chapter Gold Road to be thrown in, (although I suspect this was a joke) is getting a bit carried away.

I don't think they were joking, nor should they be. They got into this mess by logging in to PTS to help test Gold Road. I think that would be entirely appropriate as compensation. Now perhaps it should have been instead of something else but that's another debate.

What they're clearly doing with ALL the compensation is awarding items that can be blanket-distributed to all affected players with ease. Right or wrong, that's why we aren't seeing anything scaled per individual player, because it takes a fraction of the time to fulfill.

How do you know it would only take a fraction of the time to fulfil? Unless you are actually working for ZOS, on this particular issue, you can't possibly know that. And if they gave more to some, than they did to others, then one might argue that could also cause feelings of disgruntlement amongst those who were locked out.

Anyhow, I am pretty sure that those locked out are not legally entitled to (and there is no legal requirement by ZOS therefore to give), any form of compensation beyond reimbursement of paid ESO+ subscriptions. It is a courtesy and a gesture of goodwill that ZOS has given what it has.

The compensation offered is plenty. Maybe add in some of the daily and event stuff lost out on, such as style pages from the impresario, X no. of jubilee boxes per character per day lost and daily login rewards.

There will always be some for whom, the compensation offered, will never be enough.

HatchetHaro · April 23

Dragonnord wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Out of the 22 event days (21 actual days + 4 hours), that would mark 10 days of missed game time + 4 hours of missing the Event since the rollback time.

This is not funny any more.

The costume? The costume!? That doesn't even come close to scratching the surface of what we deserve for this frankly horrid treatment.

Here's what we'd be missing from the daily rewards alone, assuming that we get unlocked on Thursday:
Gold (10,000)

Tel Var Stones (2,500)

Alliance Points (6,000)

Crown Fortifying Meal (8)

Crown Tri-Restoration Potion (300)

Crown Lethal Poison (300)

Alliance Points (4,000)

Instant All Research (2)

Cumberland Anniversary Attire (costume) (the only thing promised in this post)

Here's what we'd be missing from the Event:
33 Event Tickets

11 Glorious Anniversary Jubilee Gift Boxes (partially compensated with 5 of these boxes to be granted)

at least 77 Anniversary Jubilee Gift Boxes per character

77 Writ reward containers per character

the ability to purchase Anniversary Jubilee Event items from the Impressario with our Event Tickets

the ability to slave away 30+ hours trying to grind for the 5 rare Event style pages (made up for in full with all 5 style pages to be granted)

Here's what we'd be missing from the rest of the game:
2030 Seals of Endeavour (including the last weekly, and assuming an average of 160 Seals per day till April 25 since the writing of this post) (made up for in full with the promise of 16,000 Seals of Endeavour to be granted)

10 full days of ESO+ time (if subscribed) (made up for in full with the additional month of ESO+ to be granted)

any expired mail containing gold and other rewards

any expired antiquity leads

10 days worth of trials practice in our respective core teams (if any)

any Trifecta achievements and titles missed due to the lock-out

and more.

Hatchet, one question, what with people that went into the PTS just for the sake of going there, not with the will to test anything and provide any feedback at all (there are plenty of those players, even in my guild that just go there to see whetever because they were bored, they didn't like the live event, etc.) and that were not going to participate in the anniversary event do the farming of the style pages, don't care about this and that, don't mind or do endeavors at all, don't care and fail to claim daily rewards, etc.

Is it fair that all those players that stepped in for some short time in the PTS to do nothing there get all the free rewards when they were really not going to obtain on their own becase of lack of will or interest?

First of all, by raising this hypothetical scenario, you must also consider the opposite: is it fair that all the players who have been and intended to continue participating in this event, and also logged onto the PTS for the sake of testing the new skills, sets, and content, all with the aim of providing constructive feedback, don't get all of those rewards as compensation for being locked-out?

Since you're raising this scenario, I assume you're already under the impression that since the players you mentioned do not deserve that compensation, no one does. I feel the opposite way; since the players I mentioned definitely deserve fair compensation, then they must receive that compensation, even if it benefits others who you deem "undeserving".

Secondly, that hypothetical scenario has a bunch of caveats.

Players don't wander onto the PTS all willy nilly; they have to enable a specific option in the launcher, and install an entirely different build of ESO, taking up drive space.
If a player decides to visit the PTS "because they were bored", then that means something on the PTS interests them, whether it be the new trial, new sets, Scribing, Skill Styles, or the new zone.
Even if they don't provide feedback on the forums (most people don't), developers still have access to all that data (combat data in the new trial, dummy parses using the new sets and Scribing skills) to further refine their content.
In addition, they'd also be more likely to talk about the new content outside of the forums, whether it be in Discord calls or servers, or in guild chat back on Live, or in other online forum-aggregators like Reddit or Lemmy/kbin.

Dragonnord wrote: »

First, I asked HatchetHaro (he reads and pays attention, you clearly didn't understand the point of what I said).

There's no gatekeeping discussion here. Everyone gets a say if they feel like they have something to contribute.

Artim_X · April 23

Should've rolled back the entire server immediately after the issue was found, but nah gotta do it the hard way. Too late now...

Dragonnord · April 23

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Out of the 22 event days (21 actual days + 4 hours), that would mark 10 days of missed game time + 4 hours of missing the Event since the rollback time.

This is not funny any more.

The costume? The costume!? That doesn't even come close to scratching the surface of what we deserve for this frankly horrid treatment.

Here's what we'd be missing from the daily rewards alone, assuming that we get unlocked on Thursday:
Gold (10,000)

Tel Var Stones (2,500)

Alliance Points (6,000)

Crown Fortifying Meal (8)

Crown Tri-Restoration Potion (300)

Crown Lethal Poison (300)

Alliance Points (4,000)

Instant All Research (2)

Cumberland Anniversary Attire (costume) (the only thing promised in this post)

Here's what we'd be missing from the Event:
33 Event Tickets

11 Glorious Anniversary Jubilee Gift Boxes (partially compensated with 5 of these boxes to be granted)

at least 77 Anniversary Jubilee Gift Boxes per character

77 Writ reward containers per character

the ability to purchase Anniversary Jubilee Event items from the Impressario with our Event Tickets

the ability to slave away 30+ hours trying to grind for the 5 rare Event style pages (made up for in full with all 5 style pages to be granted)

Here's what we'd be missing from the rest of the game:
2030 Seals of Endeavour (including the last weekly, and assuming an average of 160 Seals per day till April 25 since the writing of this post) (made up for in full with the promise of 16,000 Seals of Endeavour to be granted)

10 full days of ESO+ time (if subscribed) (made up for in full with the additional month of ESO+ to be granted)

any expired mail containing gold and other rewards

any expired antiquity leads

10 days worth of trials practice in our respective core teams (if any)

any Trifecta achievements and titles missed due to the lock-out

and more.

Hatchet, one question, what with people that went into the PTS just for the sake of going there, not with the will to test anything and provide any feedback at all (there are plenty of those players, even in my guild that just go there to see whetever because they were bored, they didn't like the live event, etc.) and that were not going to participate in the anniversary event do the farming of the style pages, don't care about this and that, don't mind or do endeavors at all, don't care and fail to claim daily rewards, etc.

Is it fair that all those players that stepped in for some short time in the PTS to do nothing there get all the free rewards when they were really not going to obtain on their own becase of lack of will or interest?

First of all, by raising this hypothetical scenario, you must also consider the opposite: is it fair that all the players who have been and intended to continue participating in this event, and also logged onto the PTS for the sake of testing the new skills, sets, and content, all with the aim of providing constructive feedback, don't get all of those rewards as compensation for being locked-out?

Since you're raising this scenario, I assume you're already under the impression that since the players you mentioned do not deserve that compensation, no one does. I feel the opposite way; since the players I mentioned definitely deserve fair compensation, then they must receive that compensation, even if it benefits others who you deem "undeserving".

Secondly, that hypothetical scenario has a bunch of caveats.
Players don't wander onto the PTS all willy nilly; they have to enable a specific option in the launcher, and install an entirely different build of ESO, taking up drive space.

If a player decides to visit the PTS "because they were bored", then that means something on the PTS interests them, whether it be the new trial, new sets, Scribing, Skill Styles, or the new zone.

Even if they don't provide feedback on the forums (most people don't), developers still have access to all that data (combat data in the new trial, dummy parses using the new sets and Scribing skills) to further refine their content.

In addition, they'd also be more likely to talk about the new content outside of the forums, whether it be in Discord calls or servers, or in guild chat back on Live, or in other online forum-aggregators like Reddit or Lemmy/kbin.

In regards to your assumptions, no, I'm not saying the persons that really went in the PTS to test don't deserve being rewarded. I apologize for not clarifying this before.

I meant direactly and only the players that really don't deserve the rewards (don't worry I carefully read all your response), as I think there are players that don't deserve them, regardles they installed or not the PTS, because PTS is PTS and Live is Live.

These rewards are stuff that was or is from what was happening on the Live server, and those rewards have nothing to do to the will or actions of players in the PTS, a style page dropped by a boss in Vvardenfell has nothing to do with a player testing a house in the PTS, and as I said, there are a lot of players (I'm being honest, I have examples and know some of them) that really were not participating, nor caring and were not going to ever get those rewards of their own, opposite to players that spend hours and hours and hours and days, caring and farming them. Those players are getting ALL the rewards (against players that cared and worked for them) even when they were going to do nothing to get them.

That's the part I find super unfair.

Dragonnord · April 23

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

First, I asked HatchetHaro (he reads and pays attention, you clearly didn't understand the point of what I said).

There's no gatekeeping discussion here. Everyone gets a say if they feel like they have something to contribute.

I'm sorry I don't agree here, as I dind't ask generally, I just wanted your opinion on the matter, that's why my question was directed to you only.

Sometimes you read and hear generally, sometimes you want or need a statement or response from a specific person.

But I just leave it here, was just clarifying, I don't want to derail the thread.

HatchetHaro · April 23

Dragonnord wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Out of the 22 event days (21 actual days + 4 hours), that would mark 10 days of missed game time + 4 hours of missing the Event since the rollback time.

This is not funny any more.

The costume? The costume!? That doesn't even come close to scratching the surface of what we deserve for this frankly horrid treatment.

Here's what we'd be missing from the daily rewards alone, assuming that we get unlocked on Thursday:
Gold (10,000)

Tel Var Stones (2,500)

Alliance Points (6,000)

Crown Fortifying Meal (8)

Crown Tri-Restoration Potion (300)

Crown Lethal Poison (300)

Alliance Points (4,000)

Instant All Research (2)

Cumberland Anniversary Attire (costume) (the only thing promised in this post)

Here's what we'd be missing from the Event:
33 Event Tickets

11 Glorious Anniversary Jubilee Gift Boxes (partially compensated with 5 of these boxes to be granted)

at least 77 Anniversary Jubilee Gift Boxes per character

77 Writ reward containers per character

the ability to purchase Anniversary Jubilee Event items from the Impressario with our Event Tickets

the ability to slave away 30+ hours trying to grind for the 5 rare Event style pages (made up for in full with all 5 style pages to be granted)

Here's what we'd be missing from the rest of the game:
2030 Seals of Endeavour (including the last weekly, and assuming an average of 160 Seals per day till April 25 since the writing of this post) (made up for in full with the promise of 16,000 Seals of Endeavour to be granted)

10 full days of ESO+ time (if subscribed) (made up for in full with the additional month of ESO+ to be granted)

any expired mail containing gold and other rewards

any expired antiquity leads

10 days worth of trials practice in our respective core teams (if any)

any Trifecta achievements and titles missed due to the lock-out

and more.

Hatchet, one question, what with people that went into the PTS just for the sake of going there, not with the will to test anything and provide any feedback at all (there are plenty of those players, even in my guild that just go there to see whetever because they were bored, they didn't like the live event, etc.) and that were not going to participate in the anniversary event do the farming of the style pages, don't care about this and that, don't mind or do endeavors at all, don't care and fail to claim daily rewards, etc.

Is it fair that all those players that stepped in for some short time in the PTS to do nothing there get all the free rewards when they were really not going to obtain on their own becase of lack of will or interest?

First of all, by raising this hypothetical scenario, you must also consider the opposite: is it fair that all the players who have been and intended to continue participating in this event, and also logged onto the PTS for the sake of testing the new skills, sets, and content, all with the aim of providing constructive feedback, don't get all of those rewards as compensation for being locked-out?

Since you're raising this scenario, I assume you're already under the impression that since the players you mentioned do not deserve that compensation, no one does. I feel the opposite way; since the players I mentioned definitely deserve fair compensation, then they must receive that compensation, even if it benefits others who you deem "undeserving".

Secondly, that hypothetical scenario has a bunch of caveats.
Players don't wander onto the PTS all willy nilly; they have to enable a specific option in the launcher, and install an entirely different build of ESO, taking up drive space.

If a player decides to visit the PTS "because they were bored", then that means something on the PTS interests them, whether it be the new trial, new sets, Scribing, Skill Styles, or the new zone.

Even if they don't provide feedback on the forums (most people don't), developers still have access to all that data (combat data in the new trial, dummy parses using the new sets and Scribing skills) to further refine their content.

In addition, they'd also be more likely to talk about the new content outside of the forums, whether it be in Discord calls or servers, or in guild chat back on Live, or in other online forum-aggregators like Reddit or Lemmy/kbin.

In regards to your assumptions, no, I'm not saying the persons that really went in the PTS to test don't deserve being rewarded. I apologize for not clarifying this before.

I meant direactly and only the players that really don't deserve the rewards (don't worry I carefully read all your response), as I think there are players that don't deserve them, regardles they installed or not the PTS, because PTS is PTS and Live is Live.

These rewards are stuff that was or is from what was happening on the Live server, and those rewards have nothing to do to the will or actions of players in the PTS, a style page dropped by a boss in Vvardenfell has nothing to do with a player testing a house in the PTS, and as I said, there are a lot pot players (I'm being honest, I have examples and now some of them) that really were not participating, nor caring and were not going to ever get those rewards of their own, opposite to players that spend hours and hours and hours and days, caring and farming them. Those players are getting ALL of them, against players that cared and worked for them, for doing nothing, even when they were going to do nothing to get them.

Tha'ts the part I find super unfair.

Then you must understand that the very fact that all of these players are being locked-out from everything (PC Live, PTS, console) just because they logged onto the PTS is the most unfair thing to have happened.

See, the whole point of this compensation debacle is all about minimizing casualties. It doesn't matter whether or not those that don't deserve it get unfairly rewarded; all that matters is that those who deserve it do get fairly compensated.

I need to make it clear: I've farmed over 33 hours for all 5 of the Event style pages already; I've spent 9 Event Tickets on the Jubilee Confetti already. The compensation is already unfair to me, but outside of re-enabling the event for only those affected by the lock-out for 11 days (so the rest of the people get to put the work in themselves), anything less than granting all 5 Event style pages and all 25 Jubilee Confetti to everyone is unacceptable.

Dragonnord wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

First, I asked HatchetHaro (he reads and pays attention, you clearly didn't understand the point of what I said).

There's no gatekeeping discussion here. Everyone gets a say if they feel like they have something to contribute.

I'm sorry I don't agree here, as I dind't ask generally, I just wanted your opinion on the matter, that's why my question was directed to you only.

Sometimes you read and hear generally, sometimes you want or need a statement or response from a specific person.

But I just leave it here, was just clarifying, I don't want to derail the thread.

If you ask here, it's fair game for everyone. If you only want my opinion on the matter, message me in private.

Darlon · April 23

Dragonnord wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

First, I asked HatchetHaro (he reads and pays attention, you clearly didn't understand the point of what I said).

There's no gatekeeping discussion here. Everyone gets a say if they feel like they have something to contribute.

I'm sorry I don't agree here, as I dind't ask generally, I just wanted your opinion on the matter, that's why my question was directed to you only.

Sometimes you read and hear generally, sometimes you want or need a statement or response from a specific person.

Send a private message then. When you post on the forums it becomes general discussion.

skinnycheeks · April 23

code65536 wrote: »

Look at the logs and see how many purple boxes they earned during the event before the lockout. And then give them that many. Since they're missing half the event, just copy-paste what they got in the first half.

Please no, lol. I was in Amsterdam for the start of it! 😆

Dragonnord · April 23

I still don't agree on the pm statement guys, that's what tags are for (I didn't tag but named directly in this case, for the same purpose) and won't *** a person directly on pm making him/her respond on the same matter on two different places.

Anyways, @HatchetHaro I completelly understand your opinion and examples. I'm glad and happy the players that deserved the rewards got them, I applaud that, still not convinced that everyone deserved everything, mostly when I know players that, as I said, were never going to get them because of their own decisions.

Again, I understand all your points and, in any case, agree that is not easy to resolve this situation on a 100% fair way and "minimizing casualties" may be the best that ZOS can do (although code65536 provided a simple example/solution of looking at logs to estimate what each player could have obatined based on they're daily doings on the event).

Thanks again for your time respoding.

hiyde · April 23

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

How do you know it would only take a fraction of the time to fulfil? Unless you are actually working for ZOS, on this particular issue, you can't possibly know that. And if they gave more to some, than they did to others, then one might argue that could also cause feelings of disgruntlement amongst those who were locked out.

Common sense. Running a script to deploy 5x Glorious Boxes to everyone affected is going to take a teeny tiny fraction of the time than examining every single player, figuring out how many purple boxes per day they were averaging and then individually awarding them. Even if they wrote a script for that function, it would still take more time and divert manpower from mission critical tasks.

Giving out preset rewards is going to take a teeny tiny fraction of the time it would take over contacting each individual affected person to offer them choices.

Even the idea of giving them Gold Road (which in theory I think is a great idea) would require a lot more manpower than the 16,000 seals because they'd then have to deal with all the people who already have it. (refunds, alternate choice, etc).

As for "giving more to some than others", I never advocated for that, so I'm unsure why that's being directed at me. I was simply pointing out that they're doing uniform rewards to expedite the process.

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

Anyhow, I am pretty sure that those locked out are not legally entitled to (and there is no legal requirement by ZOS therefore to give), any form of compensation beyond reimbursement of paid ESO+ subscriptions. It is a courtesy and a gesture of goodwill that ZOS has given what it has.

I've never said differently and other than a (silly) stray comment about a lawsuit here and there, neither is anyone else. Again, not sure why this comment is being directed at me.

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

The compensation offered is plenty. Maybe add in some of the daily and event stuff lost out on, such as style pages from the impresario, X no. of jubilee boxes per character per day lost and daily login rewards.
There will always be some for whom, the compensation offered, will never be enough.

The only thing I've said in this post was that Gold Road actually would be a cool compensation for the reasons stated. I specifically said it's another question if it should have been instead of something else they did. Again, not sure...well, you know the rest.

Desiato · April 23

The compensation package initially seemed appropriate to me given the restoration expectations at the time.

Saying they're going to throw in a daily login reward for an additional week of no service is Douglas Adams level satire.

I expect at this point the affected players will have to find their compensation package in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'.

code65536 · April 23

hiyde wrote: »

Even the idea of giving them Gold Road (which in theory I think is a great idea) would require a lot more manpower than the 16,000 seals because they'd then have to deal with all the people who already have it. (refunds, alternate choice, etc).

They could deliver that as a code just like they delivered the Necrom code. The person can choose to use it on the main account if they didn't have it already. Or on that Necrom alt account that they were given.

hiyde · April 23

code65536 wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

Even the idea of giving them Gold Road (which in theory I think is a great idea) would require a lot more manpower than the 16,000 seals because they'd then have to deal with all the people who already have it. (refunds, alternate choice, etc).

They could deliver that as a code just like they delivered the Necrom code. The person can choose to use it on the main account if they didn't have it already. Or on that Necrom alt account that they were given.

Right. But what about people who've already purchased it? They'd have to be dealt with individually and issued refunds or an alternate reward.

I'm all for it by the way. Gold Road should have been the first thing on the compensation list imo. Since you got locked out trying to help test Gold Road, your Gold Road CE is FREE!

But with everything on the list so far, it seems like they're doing things that are easiest to deploy.

endorphinsplox · April 23

Also don't forget that we're missing out on double XP, so I can't grind out CP or level a new toon. My ESO+ sub renewed during lockout so I was going to spend my crowns on another character slot since the event was up.

On top of that, at the beginning of this month, I spontaneously decided to try for Emperor for the first time. I managed to get it, merely 2 hours-ish from servers being taken down for the Tarnished Nightmare fix. By the time I logged back in, I had lost the title, and never got a chance to try my build with the new Emperor passives. I had also been surpassed in AP, as I wanted to try and let someone else catch up, but the previous Emp who surpassed me on leaderboards again was showing no signs of letting that happen so I rejoined the race. Now I'm locked out, will completely miss the opportunity to catch up on Leaderboards and am watching my alliance lose the campaign basically from the sidelines, as my alt account isn't able to offer much support in terms of actually sieging and taking objectives.

Shara_Wynn · April 23

hiyde wrote: »

Common sense. Running a script to deploy 5x Glorious Boxes to everyone affected is going to take a teeny tiny fraction of the time than examining every single player, figuring out how many purple boxes per day they were averaging and then individually awarding them. Even if they wrote a script for that function, it would still take more time and divert manpower from mission critical tasks.

Giving out preset rewards is going to take a teeny tiny fraction of the time it would take over contacting each individual affected person to offer them choices.

Even the idea of giving them Gold Road (which in theory I think is a great idea) would require a lot more manpower than the 16,000 seals because they'd then have to deal with all the people who already have it. (refunds, alternate choice, etc).

As for "giving more to some than others", I never advocated for that, so I'm unsure why that's being directed at me. I was simply pointing out that they're doing uniform rewards to expedite the process.

I've never said differently and other than a (silly) stray comment about a lawsuit here and there, neither is anyone else. Again, not sure why this comment is being directed at me.

The only thing I've said in this post was that Gold Road actually would be a cool compensation for the reasons stated. I specifically said it's another question if it should have been instead of something else they did. Again, not sure...well, you know the rest.

@hiyde Apologies, I read it that you were advocating for individualized compensation, and that this would take a fraction of the time to fulfil. I can see now that you were simply giving a rationale for why ZOS chose to blanket compensate all equally.

Anyhow, for those suggesting that Gold Road should be added to the package of compensation because it has moved up to 10 days of missed play, then that is too much. Where does it end? If accounts remained locked for a further week, what then? Will people want something else? Free DLC's. Free collectors editions? A free furnished 12,000+ crown house? What will be enough?

Nowhere has ZOS given anyone any expectations or firm dates of when to expect their accounts back. Their compensation package is for however long it takes. So I am not sure why folk feel that they should be getting an ever growing package of compensation dependent on the number of days their accounts have been locked.

I agree with the OP however that locked accounts should get all the daily rewards missed, all the style pages, cakes and cake slices that could have been bought from the impresario with event tickets and a decent number of gold and purple jubilee boxes (commensurate with what they would likely have missed had they been able to play). This would be in addition to the existing compensation package of the jubilee mount, the replica style pages, subscription re-imbursement and the extremely generous 16k seals of endeavors.

code65536 · April 23

hiyde wrote: »

Right. But what about people who've already purchased it?

I doubt refunds would be an option, since not everyone buys it directly from ZOS; there are a number of official retailers. Which is why I suggested just giving them a code and they can decide how to use it. Maybe by applying it to the alt account that they got. Maybe by giving it to a friend. I heard someone say that they wanted to give the Necrom CE code that they got to someone in a guild who is financially disadvantaged. I'm sure people can find a good use for it if they already have it on their main account.

HatchetHaro · April 23

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

I agree with the OP however that locked accounts should get all the daily rewards missed, all the style pages, cakes and cake slices that could have been bought from the impresario with event tickets and a decent number of gold and purple jubilee boxes (commensurate with what they would likely have missed had they been able to play). This would be in addition to the existing compensation package of the jubilee mount, the replica style pages, subscription re-imbursement and the extremely generous 16k seals of endeavors.

Well, technically, I've only listed out most things that we would have missed by the end of this ordeal, no actual details on what needed to be compensated.

That being said, yes, exactly. I don't really care for anything beyond what has been listed (within reasonable material value, so no titles or achievements, not that those are possible anyway), and I've already purchased Gold Road already so I don't really see myself needing another copy. What we lost in in-game value, we're owed in in-game value, no more.

Maybe plus a little bit for the stress, but that's what the 16k Seals of Endeavour are for.

Soraka · April 23

endorphinsplox wrote: »

Also don't forget that we're missing out on double XP, so I can't grind out CP or level a new toon. My ESO+ sub renewed during lockout so I was going to spend my crowns on another character slot since the event was up.

On top of that, at the beginning of this month, I spontaneously decided to try for Emperor for the first time. I managed to get it, merely 2 hours-ish from servers being taken down for the Tarnished Nightmare fix. By the time I logged back in, I had lost the title, and never got a chance to try my build with the new Emperor passives. I had also been surpassed in AP, as I wanted to try and let someone else catch up, but the previous Emp who surpassed me on leaderboards again was showing no signs of letting that happen so I rejoined the race. Now I'm locked out, will completely miss the opportunity to catch up on Leaderboards and am watching my alliance lose the campaign basically from the sidelines, as my alt account isn't able to offer much support in terms of actually sieging and taking objectives.

Oh no. I hope they restore that for you because that's a LOT of work.

onyxorb · April 23

I wonder how ZOS is going to make us locked out players NOT be hated by the rest of the players?

Seriously we got a once 'ok' compensation package, that with more and more lockout time is becoming 'rather underwhelming', and yet we're still hated by the players who weren't locked out.

We didn't choose the compensation package.
We didn't choose to be locked out.
We definitely didn't choose that horrid drop rate for the rare style pages.

And yes, some of us DO put obscene amount of hours into the game:
So yes, we already have tons of endeavors, or the bulk of the horse parts, or a bulk of hours farming the pages (and or having the pages) already.
So yes, 120+ purple boxes during the event is the NORM. We really do have 18+ max level crafters doing 7 crafting writs a day. THAT is how WE play the game.

Not everyone wants to do Cyro, or Trials, or Progs, or Trifectas. NOT that those are wrong mind you, that is how OTHER people choose to play.

I'm not badmouthing ANY playstyle, other than those people whose playstyle is apparently trolling folks on forums, or taking hate out on players who didn't earn it.

PS It feels that we got what we go to make up for not being able to finish the event. As for the endeavors I would VERY gladly trade those for a few stacks of purple event boxes and happily call it even just to get this behind us.

heaven13 · April 23

Dragonnord wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Gorø wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Out of the 22 event days (21 actual days + 4 hours), that would mark 10 days of missed game time + 4 hours of missing the Event since the rollback time.

This is not funny any more.

The costume? The costume!? That doesn't even come close to scratching the surface of what we deserve for this frankly horrid treatment.

Here's what we'd be missing from the daily rewards alone, assuming that we get unlocked on Thursday:
Gold (10,000)

Tel Var Stones (2,500)

Alliance Points (6,000)

Crown Fortifying Meal (8)

Crown Tri-Restoration Potion (300)

Crown Lethal Poison (300)

Alliance Points (4,000)

Instant All Research (2)

Cumberland Anniversary Attire (costume) (the only thing promised in this post)

Here's what we'd be missing from the Event:
33 Event Tickets

11 Glorious Anniversary Jubilee Gift Boxes (partially compensated with 5 of these boxes to be granted)

at least 77 Anniversary Jubilee Gift Boxes per character

77 Writ reward containers per character

the ability to purchase Anniversary Jubilee Event items from the Impressario with our Event Tickets

the ability to slave away 30+ hours trying to grind for the 5 rare Event style pages (made up for in full with all 5 style pages to be granted)

Here's what we'd be missing from the rest of the game:
2030 Seals of Endeavour (including the last weekly, and assuming an average of 160 Seals per day till April 25 since the writing of this post) (made up for in full with the promise of 16,000 Seals of Endeavour to be granted)

10 full days of ESO+ time (if subscribed) (made up for in full with the additional month of ESO+ to be granted)

any expired mail containing gold and other rewards

any expired antiquity leads

10 days worth of trials practice in our respective core teams (if any)

any Trifecta achievements and titles missed due to the lock-out

and more.

Hatchet, one question, what with people that went into the PTS just for the sake of going there, not with the will to test anything and provide any feedback at all (there are plenty of those players, even in my guild that just go there to see whetever because they were bored, they didn't like the live event, etc.) and that were not going to participate in the anniversary event do the farming of the style pages, don't care about this and that, don't mind or do endeavors at all, don't care and fail to claim daily rewards, etc.

Is it fair that all those players that stepped in for some short time in the PTS to do nothing there get all the free rewards when they were really not going to obtain them on their own becase of lack of will or interest (regardless being locked out or not)?

[Snip]

[Snip]

[Snip]

[Snip]

How exactly do you want ZoS to determine what counts for “fair” compensation? What metrics should be used?

Time on PTS? It wasn’t up very long before it was taken offline.
Bug reports submitted while on PTS? See above. Plus as others mentioned, some things people looked at might not have had bugs to report so lack of report means all is good. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t tested.
Time spent logged in to live before lock out? Some players weren’t available then, some even for participating in other anniversary stuff (see skinnycheeks) but would have been on live if they hadn’t been locked out.
Previous PTS activity? Not useful because people come and go. I used to do a lot on PTS, didn’t log on this time. And that’s if they even keep that data somewhere.

Honestly, trying to develop some metrics on this to divvy up compensation is based on a lot of flimsy data that may or may not exist and, even if it did, would be outside the capabilities of ZoS as far as I’m concerned. They don’t even have the accounts unlocked yet.

At the end of the day, regardless of time spent or motive for logging in to PTS, these people have been locked out of their account for over a week with no definite end in sight due to an avoidable error on ZoS’s part. Period.

[Edited quote]

Dragonnord · April 23

By checking the logs of the affected players, just as code65536 stated and suggested in this same thread (you can go a page back and check).

HatchetHaro · April 23

Dragonnord wrote: »

By checking the logs of the affected players, just as code65536 stated and suggested in this same thread (you can go a page back and check).

It only assumes that the projected lost activity matches the previous activity, which doesn't apply to every player.

For example, it would highly benefit players like me who have done a lot of Crafting Writs and also spent 33+ hours farming Geysers and Dolmens with consistent boxes from those activities as well in the first half of the event; whereas it would grant far less to players who are unavailable for some of the first half of the event (e.g. being at the in-person event in Amsterdam) and planned on catching up during the second half.

Dragonnord · April 23

TKo_ROUSE wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Gorø wrote: »

[Snip]

[Snip]

[Snip]

I AM NOT AGAINST THE BANNED PLAYERS, have you read my posts?

I even said "I'm glad and happy the players that deserved the rewards got them, I applaud that", I said several times already that I found not fair all of them were fully rewarded, players I know WERE NOT going to play Live and do the event, nor farm the style pages nor care for doing endeavors, etc. and that went a minute to the PTS because nothing, because they were bored and did nothing there, they tested nothing, they provided zero feedback and are now celebrating that they got FULL rewards for doing nothing at all, nothing in the PTS and nothing on the Live server.

[Edited quote]

Carcamongus · April 23

Dragonnord wrote: »

TKo_ROUSE wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Gorø wrote: »

[Snip]

[Snip]

[Snip]

I AM NOT AGAINST THE BANNED PLAYERS, have you read my posts?

I even said "I'm glad and happy the players that deserved the rewards got them, I applaud that", I said several times already that I found not fair for other players, players I know WERE NOT going to play Live and do the event, nor farm the style pages nor care for doing endeavors, etc. and that went a minute to the PTS because nothing, because they were bored and did nothing there, they tested nothing, they provided zero feedback and are now celebrating that they got FULL rewards for doing nothing at all, nothing in the PTS and nothing on the Live server.

I'd like to point out they're not being rewarded, they're being compensated. As I explained in another post, a reward is what you get for a service, whereas compensation is meant to make up for loss suffered.

[Edited quote]

Dragonnord · April 23

Carcamongus wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

TKo_ROUSE wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Gorø wrote: »

[Snip]

[Snip]

[Snip]

I AM NOT AGAINST THE BANNED PLAYERS, have you read my posts?

I even said "I'm glad and happy the players that deserved the rewards got them, I applaud that", I said several times already that I found not fair for other players, players I know WERE NOT going to play Live and do the event, nor farm the style pages nor care for doing endeavors, etc. and that went a minute to the PTS because nothing, because they were bored and did nothing there, they tested nothing, they provided zero feedback and are now celebrating that they got FULL rewards for doing nothing at all, nothing in the PTS and nothing on the Live server.

I'd like to point out they're not being rewarded, they're being compensated. As I explained in another post, a reward is what you get for a service, whereas compensation is meant to make up for loss suffered.

Rewarded, compensated, gifted, call it whatever, my point remains on those players I know that were not doing and did nothing at all, neither on the PTS nor on the Live servers.

As I mentioned, one of them is in one of my guilds and celebrates free stuff for doing nothing on neither of both servers.

[Edited quote]

hiyde · April 23

Dragonnord wrote: »

I AM NOT AGAINST THE BANNED PLAYERS, have you read my posts?

I said several times already that I found not fair all of them were fully rewarded, players I know WERE NOT going to play Live and do the event, nor farm the style pages nor care for doing endeavors, etc. and that went a minute to the PTS because nothing, because they were bored and did nothing there, they tested nothing, they provided zero feedback and are now celebrating that they got FULL rewards for doing nothing at all, nothing in the PTS and nothing on the Live server.

Whatever their motivation...

- they installed and logged on to PTS as ZOS asked them to do.
- ZOS still gets useful data and useful hype (well, except maybe this time)
- they're getting locked out of their account for at least 10 days if not longer.

But setting that aside, how would you right this "wrong"? I'm super curious how ZOS could pull that off if they even wanted to.

Dragonnord · April 23

hiyde wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

I AM NOT AGAINST THE BANNED PLAYERS, have you read my posts?

I said several times already that I found not fair all of them were fully rewarded, players I know WERE NOT going to play Live and do the event, nor farm the style pages nor care for doing endeavors, etc. and that went a minute to the PTS because nothing, because they were bored and did nothing there, they tested nothing, they provided zero feedback and are now celebrating that they got FULL rewards for doing nothing at all, nothing in the PTS and nothing on the Live server.

Whatever their motivation...

- they installed and logged on to PTS as ZOS asked them to do.
- ZOS still gets useful data and useful hype (well, except maybe this time)
- they're getting locked out of their account for at least 10 days if not longer.

But setting that aside, how would you right this "wrong"? I'm super curious how ZOS could pull that off if they even wanted to.

Respond this to me please.

Player 1:

1 - Logs in to the PTS, checks, tests, plays, provides feedback (or not) but uses time checking stuff on the PTS.
2 - Participates on the Anniversary event, farms style pages, do their endeavors, claims their daily rewards, etc.

Player 2:

1 - Logs in to the PTS for 15 mins, remains idle and got kicked for being AFK.
2 - Dos not participate at all on the Anniversary event bacause they don't care for style pages nor anything, never do the Endavours because don't care neither, etc.

Should Player 1 and Player 2 be FULLY rewarded by ZOS the same way?

ninibini · April 23

yes, because both players are locked out of playing the game since last Monday.

hold on, no - it isn't a reward
both players should get compensation for not being able to play the game since last Monday