PTS Update 40 - Bug Reports for Grand Master Crafting Stations

BergisMacBride

Veesk wrote: »

They unfortunately don't work with writworthy.



https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1605-WritWorthy.html#comments

Yeah I saw that just today. That’s a shame. Unless they can make them work with it then I’m going to pass on getting them for now.

Tess_Phyreforge

NOT Happy with them being a BOP item!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you are not going to change the BOP, then make the voucher donatable to guild banks only
so members can donate their vouchers to their guild.
and the rank of Guildmaster will be only person allowed to remove vouchers from the guild donation tab

lillybit

Tess_Phyreforge wrote: »

NOT Happy with them being a BOP item!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you are not going to change the BOP, then make the voucher donatable to guild banks only
so members can donate their vouchers to their guild.
and the rank of Guildmaster will be only person allowed to remove vouchers from the guild donation tab

That doesn't work either because the owner of guild houses aren't necessarily the gms. My house is currently the main one for 2 guilds (and it's been up to 4 in the past) and I've never been a gm.

XxCaLxX

RIP if they stay BOP. My wife always does the writs for vouchers for our 5 guilds guild halls. We have 5 and she does the writs for vouchers for all attunables and whatever is needed for 4 of them. We all send her the writs and mats to do them so needless to say that we had already prepared for grand master crafting stations by her accumulating more than enough to get the 16 stations. Hopefully this changes not only for that reason but it needs to for ppl have something else to sell. With the changes to jewelry mats that's just another cut down on sells. We are losing too many ways to make gold. I know it's still easy to accumulate gold but with 30 mil bids weekly the sink is starting to outweigh the income.

Maythor

I suppose in the long term you can do as I've seen suggested .. and donate unused Master Writs and materials to guild masters in order to gain the writ vouchers.

Doesn't help those who have been collecting writs vouchers already to help their guilds out though, I agree that these should not be BoP!

kah

sharkclanb16_ESO wrote: »

Very sad to see that these stations are Bind on Pickup, it will end 9 years of our guild members kindly donating benches to our guild hall. Like lots of guilds the effort that has gone into getting all the benches has been a huge team effort across all our guilds and members.

Given our guild house owner has been unable to play for a long period and it is them that needs to go and craft the 6000 writs to make the benches (as opposed to placing the benches gifted by members) its looking like we will not be able to add the new benches.

I would urge the devs to reconsider the idea to make them bind on pickup, if the concern is people selling them then make then not sellable in another way.

My poor guild's probably gonna have to wait 9 more years for me to get all these master crafting tables. It's a big ol' bunch of writ vouchers.

Necrotech_Master

kah wrote: »

sharkclanb16_ESO wrote: »

Very sad to see that these stations are Bind on Pickup, it will end 9 years of our guild members kindly donating benches to our guild hall. Like lots of guilds the effort that has gone into getting all the benches has been a huge team effort across all our guilds and members.

Given our guild house owner has been unable to play for a long period and it is them that needs to go and craft the 6000 writs to make the benches (as opposed to placing the benches gifted by members) its looking like we will not be able to add the new benches.

I would urge the devs to reconsider the idea to make them bind on pickup, if the concern is people selling them then make then not sellable in another way.

My poor guild's probably gonna have to wait 9 more years for me to get all these master crafting tables. It's a big ol' bunch of writ vouchers.

it shouldnt actually be too bad if you accumulate old (current) jewelry writs before the patch, as you will still be able to do those, including the blue ones with the post-patch change on materials it should be far easier to do those

some of the current gold jewelry writs can give upwards 600 vouchers, and the blue ones are like around 30 each

if you got lucky and got 10 of the current gold jewelry writs at 600 each, that would be enough to get all 4 craft stations

i actually would hope they went the route of a collectible, so you could use them in multiple houses, instead of each one needing the 77k vouchers worth of attunable stations dumped into it

tmbrinks

kah wrote: »

sharkclanb16_ESO wrote: »

Very sad to see that these stations are Bind on Pickup, it will end 9 years of our guild members kindly donating benches to our guild hall. Like lots of guilds the effort that has gone into getting all the benches has been a huge team effort across all our guilds and members.

Given our guild house owner has been unable to play for a long period and it is them that needs to go and craft the 6000 writs to make the benches (as opposed to placing the benches gifted by members) its looking like we will not be able to add the new benches.

I would urge the devs to reconsider the idea to make them bind on pickup, if the concern is people selling them then make then not sellable in another way.

My poor guild's probably gonna have to wait 9 more years for me to get all these master crafting tables. It's a big ol' bunch of writ vouchers.

20 characters of writs nets me between 150-250 vouchers in master writs vouchers a day and even more if I get lucky and get a big blacksmithing or woodworking one... and this is after trashing all the gold clothing, hakeijo enchanting, perfect roe provisioning, and all jewelry writs. It is of course variable, depending on the specific ones I get.

A guild of 50 players, even if they only have 2-3 characters doing writs, could get enough in a week (and even more quickly, should you decide to save the jewelry writs you can do until U40 and wait to do them when they become 1/5th the cost to do).

Some of the hyperbole has gotten out of hand, leading other players reading to false ideas and conclusions.

RagnarSw

tmbrinks wrote: »

kah wrote: »

sharkclanb16_ESO wrote: »

Very sad to see that these stations are Bind on Pickup, it will end 9 years of our guild members kindly donating benches to our guild hall. Like lots of guilds the effort that has gone into getting all the benches has been a huge team effort across all our guilds and members.

Given our guild house owner has been unable to play for a long period and it is them that needs to go and craft the 6000 writs to make the benches (as opposed to placing the benches gifted by members) its looking like we will not be able to add the new benches.

I would urge the devs to reconsider the idea to make them bind on pickup, if the concern is people selling them then make then not sellable in another way.

My poor guild's probably gonna have to wait 9 more years for me to get all these master crafting tables. It's a big ol' bunch of writ vouchers.

20 characters of writs nets me between 150-250 vouchers in master writs vouchers a day and even more if I get lucky and get a big blacksmithing or woodworking one... and this is after trashing all the gold clothing, hakeijo enchanting, perfect roe provisioning, and all jewelry writs. It is of course variable, depending on the specific ones I get.

A guild of 50 players, even if they only have 2-3 characters doing writs, could get enough in a week (and even more quickly, should you decide to save the jewelry writs you can do until U40 and wait to do them when they become 1/5th the cost to do).

Some of the hyperbole has gotten out of hand, leading other players reading to false ideas and conclusions.

I agree with your last two posts. I sometimes go around and buy writs too. I'm on PC-NA so I use writ worthy and awesome guildstore to filter writs that are under 1000 gold/voucher for mats + purchase price. I can get 500-700 writs(edit: clarify I mean the actual voucher currency and not number of writs) by checking around for an hour. Now imagine if you had a few people checking around in a guild, you could do that in like 10 or 15 minutes. Or even upped the price to say 1300-1500 gold/voucher. To me the most important thing would be making them collectible, but I'm also just ecstatic that they exist at this point so it is more of a cherry on top.

lillybit

tmbrinks wrote: »

kah wrote: »

sharkclanb16_ESO wrote: »

Very sad to see that these stations are Bind on Pickup, it will end 9 years of our guild members kindly donating benches to our guild hall. Like lots of guilds the effort that has gone into getting all the benches has been a huge team effort across all our guilds and members.

Given our guild house owner has been unable to play for a long period and it is them that needs to go and craft the 6000 writs to make the benches (as opposed to placing the benches gifted by members) its looking like we will not be able to add the new benches.

I would urge the devs to reconsider the idea to make them bind on pickup, if the concern is people selling them then make then not sellable in another way.

My poor guild's probably gonna have to wait 9 more years for me to get all these master crafting tables. It's a big ol' bunch of writ vouchers.

20 characters of writs nets me between 150-250 vouchers in master writs vouchers a day and even more if I get lucky and get a big blacksmithing or woodworking one... and this is after trashing all the gold clothing, hakeijo enchanting, perfect roe provisioning, and all jewelry writs. It is of course variable, depending on the specific ones I get.

A guild of 50 players, even if they only have 2-3 characters doing writs, could get enough in a week (and even more quickly, should you decide to save the jewelry writs you can do until U40 and wait to do them when they become 1/5th the cost to do).

Some of the hyperbole has gotten out of hand, leading other players reading to false ideas and conclusions.

250wv a day average is a stretch and will depend massively on variables like research. You can't get research done quickly so if you don't already have all you characters levelled with it already done there isn't a good way to get a good drop rate for master writs.
I do have 20 characters all with research and a handful of motifs and I don't think I could get close to that even by completing all the high value writs you say you trash. I've been doing my master writs daily recently and mostly I've had around 100 total daily, doing all but jewelry which I'm saving now. Yes, I get days where I do very well, but not often enough that it's going to increase that 100 by 150%.

If you're lucky enough to have a guild of 50, all doing multiple daily writs and all giving you everything they drop that's great. You'll probably be ok by the time the update drops. That's not the usual situation tho. I got donations toward mine but I'd say 80% was my own work. I know others who have done it totally on their own or for whom it's been slow going even with guilds helping. I also know a gm who kitted out his house without doing a single master writ. It's not going to be the same for everyone.

The fact is, some will find it relatively easy to adapt and find a way to get all the stations on release, but some will struggle. A lot. Just because it's easy for you don't assume everyone has your same options.

tomofhyrule

I'm not surprised about them not as collectables that can be placed in multiple houses. It makes sense that that's how they are set up.

Think about it: the current attunable stations are not collectable. If you get one and attune it to the Ashen Grip station, you get to place that attuned station in one house. You don't all of a sudden get to place that same Ashen Grip station in all of your houses for the price of one. Same here - if you feed that Ashen Grip station to the master station, it'd only follow logically that it's only been fed to that one station and not magically to all of the stations in all of your houses.

However, the Bind on Pickup is not logical. A lot of people will pool their resources to get a guild furnished, and we've always been able to donate the attunable stations to the guildmaster. Now the guildmaster has to come up with 6000 vouchers by themselves? It seems wrong and counter the the idea of working with the guild (which we've seen ZOS has been pushing if the new Endeavors are any indication)

I get that the stations are to be barred behind the "Grand Master Crafter" achievement, but I think that the convenience of working together with a guild should outweigh that at this point.

tmbrinks

lillybit wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

kah wrote: »

sharkclanb16_ESO wrote: »

Very sad to see that these stations are Bind on Pickup, it will end 9 years of our guild members kindly donating benches to our guild hall. Like lots of guilds the effort that has gone into getting all the benches has been a huge team effort across all our guilds and members.

Given our guild house owner has been unable to play for a long period and it is them that needs to go and craft the 6000 writs to make the benches (as opposed to placing the benches gifted by members) its looking like we will not be able to add the new benches.

I would urge the devs to reconsider the idea to make them bind on pickup, if the concern is people selling them then make then not sellable in another way.

My poor guild's probably gonna have to wait 9 more years for me to get all these master crafting tables. It's a big ol' bunch of writ vouchers.

20 characters of writs nets me between 150-250 vouchers in master writs vouchers a day and even more if I get lucky and get a big blacksmithing or woodworking one... and this is after trashing all the gold clothing, hakeijo enchanting, perfect roe provisioning, and all jewelry writs. It is of course variable, depending on the specific ones I get.

A guild of 50 players, even if they only have 2-3 characters doing writs, could get enough in a week (and even more quickly, should you decide to save the jewelry writs you can do until U40 and wait to do them when they become 1/5th the cost to do).

Some of the hyperbole has gotten out of hand, leading other players reading to false ideas and conclusions.

250wv a day average is a stretch and will depend massively on variables like research. You can't get research done quickly so if you don't already have all you characters levelled with it already done there isn't a good way to get a good drop rate for master writs.
I do have 20 characters all with research and a handful of motifs and I don't think I could get close to that even by completing all the high value writs you say you trash. I've been doing my master writs daily recently and mostly I've had around 100 total daily, doing all but jewelry which I'm saving now. Yes, I get days where I do very well, but not often enough that it's going to increase that 100 by 150%.

If you're lucky enough to have a guild of 50, all doing multiple daily writs and all giving you everything they drop that's great. You'll probably be ok by the time the update drops. That's not the usual situation tho. I got donations toward mine but I'd say 80% was my own work. I know others who have done it totally on their own or for whom it's been slow going even with guilds helping. I also know a gm who kitted out his house without doing a single master writ. It's not going to be the same for everyone.

The fact is, some will find it relatively easy to adapt and find a way to get all the stations on release, but some will struggle. A lot. Just because it's easy for you don't assume everyone has your same options.

The point was the phrase "9 years" of being hyperbole. If the guild cares about having them, motivate your guild to donate the master writs and/or materials. Of course I know that all 50 aren't going to do them, most trade guild members just skate by on the donations of a few.

They are called "Grand Master Crafting Stations"... I think it's okay that not everybody will have them on day 1, without doing some preparation. There are what... 5, 6 weeks until this is live? Plenty of time. Many posts in here have come across as players feeling they are entitled to these new stations for (virtually) nothing.

I outfitted my own personal crafting hall through only my own earned master writs and vouchers, and have probably sold and donated enough attunable stations to outfit 3 or 4 more completely.

Edit: 263 vouchers today from my main account... I did get a 100 voucher gold blacksmithing, which is basically the lowest gold one you can get. (got another 6 blue jewelry, an 81 voucher gold clothing I listed for sale, and a 13 voucher hakeijo enchanting for sale as well)

Billium813

Mendo wrote: »

Why is the blacksmith table 3x bigger than the others?

I REALLY have to agree here and I'd like to see it redesigned a bit. It gives me really bad Anvil of Old Orsinium flashbacks with just how difficult it is to place being sooo large.



I like the Jewelry and Woodworking ones. Very compact and minimal, yet busy enough to represent a Master Crafting station! I didn't like the Clothing one at first, until I realized it improves to add the mannequin bust in its allocated space.

BetweenMidgets

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

No, the real issue for console is it is true that we can make many extra writs ahead of time and turn them too. I have done this many times before. The problem is, you need either write down what the writ is or take a picture of each and every writ you want to make. Then make a bunch ahead of time.

Which also eliminates the help of checking the box and the system only showing what is exactly needed for each writ. Since you can only hold one at a time. You must manually select everything needed for each and every writ. Thus, if you don’t want to risk Mr. Fumble Fingers, you go through lots of extra loading screens to prevent mistakes.  Which equals a lot of extra time, needlessly.

With some many different styles in the game that are not in alphabetic order, playing hunt and find takes a lot of time. Plus console has no search feature either to find said style. We are regulated to shifting through over a hundred styles to find the one we need each and every time, which also takes a lot of time that apparently PC does not deal with.

I never quite realized just how bad master writs are on console until this minute. I am so sorry. I wish everyone on console could have the option to migrate to PC if they wanted to.

As it is, good luck friend! Our prayers are with you!

BetweenMidgets

Nienna001 wrote: »

I was so excited for this but now and am gutted. I personally think they are far to expensive, I do crafting dalies and master writs when I can, but even still I only have 800 writ vouchers. I can't see a way of getting 5,200 any time soon.

I was in this boat for a long time, where I felt like I didn't get master writs very often and didn't have many vouchers.

If you max out the first line of each profession (as in the very first item listed that you can put skill points in. I don't know if it has a specific name, but it is what changes what mats you use for the daily writs) it GREATLY increases the amount of master writs you get upon completing daily writs. I have 10 toons total, but only play a few at a time. If I do writs on all 10, I'll average getting 5-6 master writs every day.

I've heard you can improve the likelihood further by the more patterns you know for that profession, but I'm not about to burn patterns I could sell on an alt, so I have nothing to speak to that on.

You likely know all of the above information already, but in case someone else doesn't hopefully that made sense!

kah

tmbrinks wrote: »

kah wrote: »

sharkclanb16_ESO wrote: »

Very sad to see that these stations are Bind on Pickup, it will end 9 years of our guild members kindly donating benches to our guild hall. Like lots of guilds the effort that has gone into getting all the benches has been a huge team effort across all our guilds and members.

Given our guild house owner has been unable to play for a long period and it is them that needs to go and craft the 6000 writs to make the benches (as opposed to placing the benches gifted by members) its looking like we will not be able to add the new benches.

I would urge the devs to reconsider the idea to make them bind on pickup, if the concern is people selling them then make then not sellable in another way.

My poor guild's probably gonna have to wait 9 more years for me to get all these master crafting tables. It's a big ol' bunch of writ vouchers.

20 characters of writs nets me between 150-250 vouchers in master writs vouchers a day and even more if I get lucky and get a big blacksmithing or woodworking one... and this is after trashing all the gold clothing, hakeijo enchanting, perfect roe provisioning, and all jewelry writs. It is of course variable, depending on the specific ones I get.

A guild of 50 players, even if they only have 2-3 characters doing writs, could get enough in a week (and even more quickly, should you decide to save the jewelry writs you can do until U40 and wait to do them when they become 1/5th the cost to do).

Some of the hyperbole has gotten out of hand, leading other players reading to false ideas and conclusions.

If the guild could contribute it certainly wouldn't be that much of an issue, but my point is that the grand master crafting stations are currently bind on pickup which means they are on the guild leaders to buy. That's a total cost of 6,000 vouchers for one person. I'm lucky in that my guild has the completed set of stations at the moment, a feat only accomplished with a ton of teamwork, but it's a big bummer that I'm not going to be able to provide them these master crafting stations for a while since I, personally, have to get the vouchers myself. Also, I feel like grinding 150-250 vouchers on 20 characters per day is not what the average player is doing; I'm sure not.

But, yes, to clarify: the nine year thing was hyperbole. I'm not sure who was getting the wrong idea though. Seems to me that most people here have expressed valid criticisms.

karthrag_inak

• Not workable with Writ Worthy
• Bind on pickup
• Overly Expensive and restrictive to purchase.

Yep. Khajiit will pass, thanks, if these don't change, and let's face it, when has anything had substantial change once it hit PTS?

Devs really pooped the bed with this. Finally getting around to implementing a long-sought-after Quality of Life improvement is not the time to engage in extraneous and unasked-for social engineering. That's one of the biggest and most infuriating problems with this game - the devs always attempt to micromanage the player experience through secondary and sometimes even hidden modifications to how the game works. If using mods to facilitate crafting was "not intended" then the API should not have been present in the first place. If it was intended, then it should be supported in these stations out of the box.

It would appear khajiit was misinformed regarding the addon compatibility issue, so please disregard his nonsense.

code65536

karthrag_inak wrote: »

Not workable with Writ Worthy

I want to dispel this oft-repeated falsehood.

It can and it will work with WritWorthy after the appropriate updates to that addon and the associated LibLazyCrafting library. But that ball is obviously outside of ZOS's court.

The API exists, it's straightforward to use, and there is every reason to expect that addons will eventually (though perhaps not immediately) work seamlessly with GMCS.

tmbrinks

kah wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

kah wrote: »

sharkclanb16_ESO wrote: »

Very sad to see that these stations are Bind on Pickup, it will end 9 years of our guild members kindly donating benches to our guild hall. Like lots of guilds the effort that has gone into getting all the benches has been a huge team effort across all our guilds and members.

Given our guild house owner has been unable to play for a long period and it is them that needs to go and craft the 6000 writs to make the benches (as opposed to placing the benches gifted by members) its looking like we will not be able to add the new benches.

I would urge the devs to reconsider the idea to make them bind on pickup, if the concern is people selling them then make then not sellable in another way.

My poor guild's probably gonna have to wait 9 more years for me to get all these master crafting tables. It's a big ol' bunch of writ vouchers.

20 characters of writs nets me between 150-250 vouchers in master writs vouchers a day and even more if I get lucky and get a big blacksmithing or woodworking one... and this is after trashing all the gold clothing, hakeijo enchanting, perfect roe provisioning, and all jewelry writs. It is of course variable, depending on the specific ones I get.

A guild of 50 players, even if they only have 2-3 characters doing writs, could get enough in a week (and even more quickly, should you decide to save the jewelry writs you can do until U40 and wait to do them when they become 1/5th the cost to do).

Some of the hyperbole has gotten out of hand, leading other players reading to false ideas and conclusions.

If the guild could contribute it certainly wouldn't be that much of an issue, but my point is that the grand master crafting stations are currently bind on pickup which means they are on the guild leaders to buy. That's a total cost of 6,000 vouchers for one person. I'm lucky in that my guild has the completed set of stations at the moment, a feat only accomplished with a ton of teamwork, but it's a big bummer that I'm not going to be able to provide them these master crafting stations for a while since I, personally, have to get the vouchers myself. Also, I feel like grinding 150-250 vouchers on 20 characters per day is not what the average player is doing; I'm sure not.

But, yes, to clarify: the nine year thing was hyperbole. I'm not sure who was getting the wrong idea though. Seems to me that most people here have expressed valid criticisms.

The master writs themselves and the materials are not bound... can just send the appropriate items to the guildmaster to make them.

Yes, they have to complete the master writs themselves, but you can still do them as a guild effort. Jewelry master writs, which require no motif knowledge and limited research, with some effort BEFORE the patch, can net you enough blue master writs to easily get these stations done on day 1 of the patch.

Edit: I know I'm an extraneous case when it comes to master writs and doing daily writs. (When I do them, I actually do them on upwards of 48 characters spread across 3 accounts... the other 2 accounts have virtually zero motif knowledge, so their drop rate is lower... in the 100-200 vouchers a day). Add in the fact that I'm actually keeping jewelry master writs now that they might be worth doing with U40... and it's closer to 250-350 a day on the main and 200-300 on the alt, as jewelry master writs drop at nearly a 20% rate with 9-trait knowledge, and even if most are blue in quality, that's 4*30 = 120 vouchers extra a day!

That was merely in there to show that a single person can do enough before the patch to be able to have all the stations, with some effort... just imagine if you got your guild behind the effort with some well-informed information instead of the doom and gloom that is posted here!

tmbrinks

code65536 wrote: »

karthrag_inak wrote: »

Not workable with Writ Worthy

I want to dispel this oft-repeated falsehood.

It can and it will work with WritWorthy after the appropriate updates to that addon and the associated LibLazyCrafting library. But that ball is obviously outside of ZOS's court.

The API exists, it's straightforward to use, and there is every reason to expect that addons will eventually (though perhaps not immediately) work seamlessly with GMCS.

Make it work Code!

Billium813

More evidence that the Grand Master Blacksmithing Station is just too large. The sides are so far from the anvil, that you can't actually open the interface from the sides.



Please ZOS, this thing needs a redesign to make it more compact.

1. The grinding wheel is in a bad location. Why not place it at the end of the water instead of behind it?
2. The water quench is larger than necessary. It could be a vertical barrel to save room.
3. The coals and bellows are in a bad location. The elongated coals could be rounded instead so that the bellows could be placed where the blacksmith would be standing. The coals themselves chould be behind where the player is working so they aren't getting heat in the face constantly.
4. The open book is gonna get totally scorched with embers when the player is pounding metal. Why not use Clockwork Sequence Spools instead?

karthrag_inak

code65536 wrote: »

karthrag_inak wrote: »

Not workable with Writ Worthy

I want to dispel this oft-repeated falsehood.

It can and it will work with WritWorthy after the appropriate updates to that addon and the associated LibLazyCrafting library. But that ball is obviously outside of ZOS's court.

The API exists, it's straightforward to use, and there is every reason to expect that addons will eventually (though perhaps not immediately) work seamlessly with GMCS.

Thank you, sir or madam, for correcting khajiit. This is a relief to hear.

kah

tmbrinks wrote: »

kah wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

kah wrote: »

sharkclanb16_ESO wrote: »

Very sad to see that these stations are Bind on Pickup, it will end 9 years of our guild members kindly donating benches to our guild hall. Like lots of guilds the effort that has gone into getting all the benches has been a huge team effort across all our guilds and members.

Given our guild house owner has been unable to play for a long period and it is them that needs to go and craft the 6000 writs to make the benches (as opposed to placing the benches gifted by members) its looking like we will not be able to add the new benches.

I would urge the devs to reconsider the idea to make them bind on pickup, if the concern is people selling them then make then not sellable in another way.

My poor guild's probably gonna have to wait 9 more years for me to get all these master crafting tables. It's a big ol' bunch of writ vouchers.

20 characters of writs nets me between 150-250 vouchers in master writs vouchers a day and even more if I get lucky and get a big blacksmithing or woodworking one... and this is after trashing all the gold clothing, hakeijo enchanting, perfect roe provisioning, and all jewelry writs. It is of course variable, depending on the specific ones I get.

A guild of 50 players, even if they only have 2-3 characters doing writs, could get enough in a week (and even more quickly, should you decide to save the jewelry writs you can do until U40 and wait to do them when they become 1/5th the cost to do).

Some of the hyperbole has gotten out of hand, leading other players reading to false ideas and conclusions.

If the guild could contribute it certainly wouldn't be that much of an issue, but my point is that the grand master crafting stations are currently bind on pickup which means they are on the guild leaders to buy. That's a total cost of 6,000 vouchers for one person. I'm lucky in that my guild has the completed set of stations at the moment, a feat only accomplished with a ton of teamwork, but it's a big bummer that I'm not going to be able to provide them these master crafting stations for a while since I, personally, have to get the vouchers myself. Also, I feel like grinding 150-250 vouchers on 20 characters per day is not what the average player is doing; I'm sure not.

But, yes, to clarify: the nine year thing was hyperbole. I'm not sure who was getting the wrong idea though. Seems to me that most people here have expressed valid criticisms.

The master writs themselves and the materials are not bound... can just send the appropriate items to the guildmaster to make them.

Yes, they have to complete the master writs themselves, but you can still do them as a guild effort. Jewelry master writs, which require no motif knowledge and limited research, with some effort BEFORE the patch, can net you enough blue master writs to easily get these stations done on day 1 of the patch.

Edit: I know I'm an extraneous case when it comes to master writs and doing daily writs. (When I do them, I actually do them on upwards of 48 characters spread across 3 accounts... the other 2 accounts have virtually zero motif knowledge, so their drop rate is lower... in the 100-200 vouchers a day). Add in the fact that I'm actually keeping jewelry master writs now that they might be worth doing with U40... and it's closer to 250-350 a day on the main and 200-300 on the alt, as jewelry master writs drop at nearly a 20% rate with 9-trait knowledge, and even if most are blue in quality, that's 4*30 = 120 vouchers extra a day!

That was merely in there to show that a single person can do enough before the patch to be able to have all the stations, with some effort... just imagine if you got your guild behind the effort with some well-informed information instead of the doom and gloom that is posted here!

You make a good point about writs and mats. I'm not trying to be doom and gloom. Just offering a bit of criticism, as I personally feel that having a guildmaster do the writs themselves (even with donated writs and mats), is a huge hassle. Love that grand master crafting stations are a thing but I do think the BOP aspect is a bit of a bummer.

wolfie1.0.

tmbrinks wrote: »

kah wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

kah wrote: »

sharkclanb16_ESO wrote: »

Very sad to see that these stations are Bind on Pickup, it will end 9 years of our guild members kindly donating benches to our guild hall. Like lots of guilds the effort that has gone into getting all the benches has been a huge team effort across all our guilds and members.

Given our guild house owner has been unable to play for a long period and it is them that needs to go and craft the 6000 writs to make the benches (as opposed to placing the benches gifted by members) its looking like we will not be able to add the new benches.

I would urge the devs to reconsider the idea to make them bind on pickup, if the concern is people selling them then make then not sellable in another way.

My poor guild's probably gonna have to wait 9 more years for me to get all these master crafting tables. It's a big ol' bunch of writ vouchers.

20 characters of writs nets me between 150-250 vouchers in master writs vouchers a day and even more if I get lucky and get a big blacksmithing or woodworking one... and this is after trashing all the gold clothing, hakeijo enchanting, perfect roe provisioning, and all jewelry writs. It is of course variable, depending on the specific ones I get.

A guild of 50 players, even if they only have 2-3 characters doing writs, could get enough in a week (and even more quickly, should you decide to save the jewelry writs you can do until U40 and wait to do them when they become 1/5th the cost to do).

Some of the hyperbole has gotten out of hand, leading other players reading to false ideas and conclusions.

If the guild could contribute it certainly wouldn't be that much of an issue, but my point is that the grand master crafting stations are currently bind on pickup which means they are on the guild leaders to buy. That's a total cost of 6,000 vouchers for one person. I'm lucky in that my guild has the completed set of stations at the moment, a feat only accomplished with a ton of teamwork, but it's a big bummer that I'm not going to be able to provide them these master crafting stations for a while since I, personally, have to get the vouchers myself. Also, I feel like grinding 150-250 vouchers on 20 characters per day is not what the average player is doing; I'm sure not.

But, yes, to clarify: the nine year thing was hyperbole. I'm not sure who was getting the wrong idea though. Seems to me that most people here have expressed valid criticisms.

The master writs themselves and the materials are not bound... can just send the appropriate items to the guildmaster to make them.

Yes, they have to complete the master writs themselves, but you can still do them as a guild effort. Jewelry master writs, which require no motif knowledge and limited research, with some effort BEFORE the patch, can net you enough blue master writs to easily get these stations done on day 1 of the patch.

Edit: I know I'm an extraneous case when it comes to master writs and doing daily writs. (When I do them, I actually do them on upwards of 48 characters spread across 3 accounts... the other 2 accounts have virtually zero motif knowledge, so their drop rate is lower... in the 100-200 vouchers a day). Add in the fact that I'm actually keeping jewelry master writs now that they might be worth doing with U40... and it's closer to 250-350 a day on the main and 200-300 on the alt, as jewelry master writs drop at nearly a 20% rate with 9-trait knowledge, and even if most are blue in quality, that's 4*30 = 120 vouchers extra a day!

That was merely in there to show that a single person can do enough before the patch to be able to have all the stations, with some effort... just imagine if you got your guild behind the effort with some well-informed information instead of the doom and gloom that is posted here!

one of the routes that a LOT of guilds took is that they set up a dedicated account (GM alt account, Officer account, officer alt account, etc) to set up a guilds dedicated guild crafting center on. A lot of this was specifically because of how much space it took up. Most of the time these accounts are not actually used a whole lot, but with crafting stations and other items needed being able to be gifted to that account lots of grinding was not required.

I for one had to start our GM housing account from scratch, 0 research, 9 basic motifs. all crafts around level 10. 80k+ writ vouchers and 1,000's of crowns investing in guild house... its not like i can suddenly swap and waste that... so i started the titan effort.

grandmaster crafter is unlocked. research is progressing (thank you daily rewards, and gold research scrolls) biggest hurdle? Motifs. Timing on this couldn't be worse for motifs.

At the end of the day, this all probably was a lack of foresight. I was prepared for these to be crown exclusive, tel var , AP, required to have a special item you needed, a collectible, gem exclusive, a gold investment, 10k writ vouchers each.

I was not expecting the combination of achievement based Bind on Pickup. Since this is a huge departure and change from what it has been previously.

Honestly, i agree with a lot of what you said, and yes there are a lot of people that wont get these upon launch. but for a lot of people its going to be a grind. I just wish that in some of their live reveals previously they had given us enough of a hint that these were going to be locked up like this.

I do admit that a lot of WHY i don't want these BoP is selfish. not wanting to grind up 100+ sets of motifs. Spend time researching, and honestly i was looking forward to selling these things on the open market for gold. because in the end, i really really hate BoP mechanics. i understand why they exist, etc but i hate em.

in the end, i don't want them to be BoP or achievement locked. but all i can do is make the request (which i have done) and then move onto grinding out whats needed to make this work. will likely have to rely on jewelry, enchanting, alchemy, and provisioning writs for the bulk of it, while hoping on getting lucky on the motifs and guild generosity for the rest.

Varana

I mean, yes, it's possible to donate writs and materials to the guild hall owner and buy the benches that way.
But seriously, why the unnecessary additional hoop to jump through? Creating hurdles for a certain subgroup of guild hall owners without any particular reason?
Guilds are probably the main target audience for these things. And really, you want to encourage cooperation in guilds, not dumping all your stuff on one person and letting them do all the work.

lillybit

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

kah wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

kah wrote: »

sharkclanb16_ESO wrote: »

Very sad to see that these stations are Bind on Pickup, it will end 9 years of our guild members kindly donating benches to our guild hall. Like lots of guilds the effort that has gone into getting all the benches has been a huge team effort across all our guilds and members.

Given our guild house owner has been unable to play for a long period and it is them that needs to go and craft the 6000 writs to make the benches (as opposed to placing the benches gifted by members) its looking like we will not be able to add the new benches.

I would urge the devs to reconsider the idea to make them bind on pickup, if the concern is people selling them then make then not sellable in another way.

My poor guild's probably gonna have to wait 9 more years for me to get all these master crafting tables. It's a big ol' bunch of writ vouchers.

20 characters of writs nets me between 150-250 vouchers in master writs vouchers a day and even more if I get lucky and get a big blacksmithing or woodworking one... and this is after trashing all the gold clothing, hakeijo enchanting, perfect roe provisioning, and all jewelry writs. It is of course variable, depending on the specific ones I get.

A guild of 50 players, even if they only have 2-3 characters doing writs, could get enough in a week (and even more quickly, should you decide to save the jewelry writs you can do until U40 and wait to do them when they become 1/5th the cost to do).

Some of the hyperbole has gotten out of hand, leading other players reading to false ideas and conclusions.

If the guild could contribute it certainly wouldn't be that much of an issue, but my point is that the grand master crafting stations are currently bind on pickup which means they are on the guild leaders to buy. That's a total cost of 6,000 vouchers for one person. I'm lucky in that my guild has the completed set of stations at the moment, a feat only accomplished with a ton of teamwork, but it's a big bummer that I'm not going to be able to provide them these master crafting stations for a while since I, personally, have to get the vouchers myself. Also, I feel like grinding 150-250 vouchers on 20 characters per day is not what the average player is doing; I'm sure not.

But, yes, to clarify: the nine year thing was hyperbole. I'm not sure who was getting the wrong idea though. Seems to me that most people here have expressed valid criticisms.

The master writs themselves and the materials are not bound... can just send the appropriate items to the guildmaster to make them.

Yes, they have to complete the master writs themselves, but you can still do them as a guild effort. Jewelry master writs, which require no motif knowledge and limited research, with some effort BEFORE the patch, can net you enough blue master writs to easily get these stations done on day 1 of the patch.

Edit: I know I'm an extraneous case when it comes to master writs and doing daily writs. (When I do them, I actually do them on upwards of 48 characters spread across 3 accounts... the other 2 accounts have virtually zero motif knowledge, so their drop rate is lower... in the 100-200 vouchers a day). Add in the fact that I'm actually keeping jewelry master writs now that they might be worth doing with U40... and it's closer to 250-350 a day on the main and 200-300 on the alt, as jewelry master writs drop at nearly a 20% rate with 9-trait knowledge, and even if most are blue in quality, that's 4*30 = 120 vouchers extra a day!

That was merely in there to show that a single person can do enough before the patch to be able to have all the stations, with some effort... just imagine if you got your guild behind the effort with some well-informed information instead of the doom and gloom that is posted here!

one of the routes that a LOT of guilds took is that they set up a dedicated account (GM alt account, Officer account, officer alt account, etc) to set up a guilds dedicated guild crafting center on. A lot of this was specifically because of how much space it took up. Most of the time these accounts are not actually used a whole lot, but with crafting stations and other items needed being able to be gifted to that account lots of grinding was not required.

I for one had to start our GM housing account from scratch, 0 research, 9 basic motifs. all crafts around level 10. 80k+ writ vouchers and 1,000's of crowns investing in guild house... its not like i can suddenly swap and waste that... so i started the titan effort.

grandmaster crafter is unlocked. research is progressing (thank you daily rewards, and gold research scrolls) biggest hurdle? Motifs. Timing on this couldn't be worse for motifs.

At the end of the day, this all probably was a lack of foresight. I was prepared for these to be crown exclusive, tel var , AP, required to have a special item you needed, a collectible, gem exclusive, a gold investment, 10k writ vouchers each.

I was not expecting the combination of achievement based Bind on Pickup. Since this is a huge departure and change from what it has been previously.

Honestly, i agree with a lot of what you said, and yes there are a lot of people that wont get these upon launch. but for a lot of people its going to be a grind. I just wish that in some of their live reveals previously they had given us enough of a hint that these were going to be locked up like this.

I do admit that a lot of WHY i don't want these BoP is selfish. not wanting to grind up 100+ sets of motifs. Spend time researching, and honestly i was looking forward to selling these things on the open market for gold. because in the end, i really really hate BoP mechanics. i understand why they exist, etc but i hate em.

in the end, i don't want them to be BoP or achievement locked. but all i can do is make the request (which i have done) and then move onto grinding out whats needed to make this work. will likely have to rely on jewelry, enchanting, alchemy, and provisioning writs for the bulk of it, while hoping on getting lucky on the motifs and guild generosity for the rest.

I'm in the same boat, I created a guild house on a baby alt so I had more flexibility with guilds without taking my house away from them (before you could link houses).

GMC isn't so bad if you have the time to create (and delete if you wanted) multiple characters. Learn the basic 9 motifs on half dozen characters and you're done. Can also use those characters for speedy research too - you only need to research each trait once on anything, so it can be done in a few hours by splitting it over different crafts and characters.

The tricky bit is doing the master writs. Normal equipment are difficult because of the Motif knowledge needed and alchemy/enchanting would need up to 3000 to get enough for the stations. The best route is buying up jewelry writs now while they're higher value, but everyone else has been doing that too so that'll be a very expensive option, particularly on PC (on PS EU chrome is only 65k, 7k a grain, so it's not such a big deal).

It's not entirely selfish to worry about this - if it's a problem it's going to effect many others too.

lillybit

"Adjusted the achievement requirement to purchase a Grand Master Crafting Station from “Grand Master Crafter” to “Unsurpassed Crafter”."

Not sure that really helps much it they'll still be BoP except you'll be even less able to do enough master writs to actually buy them

Edit: Got mixed up with what the achievement was, it's the complete 100 master writs one so it affectively does away with the requirement for an achievement, as you'd need to do that many to afford them anyway

code65536

Adjusted the achievement requirement to purchase a Grand Master Crafting Station from “Grand Master Crafter” to “Unsurpassed Crafter”.

This is the wrong fix. The Grand Master Crafting Station should require the Grand Master Crafter achievement to purchase; there was nothing wrong with that.

The problem was the bind-on-pickup. Remove BoP and restore the achievement requirement.

Crafting is supposed to be about trade and mercantile activities. Thematically, having something so valuable be BoP flies in the face of all this. The reward for GMC should be the privilege to buy these stations and the privilege sell and profit from these stations. BoP just makes no sense.

lillybit

code65536 wrote: »

Adjusted the achievement requirement to purchase a Grand Master Crafting Station from “Grand Master Crafter” to “Unsurpassed Crafter”.

This is the wrong fix. The Grand Master Crafting Station should require the Grand Master Crafter achievement to purchase; there was nothing wrong with that.

The problem was the bind-on-pickup. Remove BoP and restore the achievement requirement.

Crafting is supposed to be about trade and mercantile activities. Thematically, having something so valuable be BoP flies in the face of all this. The reward for GMC should be the privilege to buy these stations and the privilege sell and profit from these stations. BoP just makes no sense.

Think there's pros and cons to it being achievement locked (I go backwards and forwards on if it's a good thing or not), but agree that it shouldn't be BoP - anyone can come to our houses and use them, doesn't seem much point to us not being able to share them in other ways too

Kelinmiriel

I would be in favor of removing the achievement for purchase entirely, but that's a very minor thing compared the bind-on-pickup, which is a huge issue still that has been completely overlooked.

Guild leaders already have enough that they must do to run a successful guild. (Sometimes the guild house owner is a different person/account, but if it's an alt account, that can make things even more difficult, as has been pointed out.)

A guild is supposed to be a community. The guild house is their community home. Why can't members contribute to this?

Guild houses should be a feature that all members who benefit from it can contribute to, not solely the effort and expense of the guild leader, who already has a lot of personal time and expense put into creating and running a good guild.

Please remove bind-on-pickup!