Not enough bag space even with upgrades

Krym

mr_stealth_b14_ESO wrote: »

What I would like to know is why one craft has more materials than all of the others combined. If it's intended to be a soft cap and force choices, wouldn't the other crafts be designed more similarly? Alchemy's design is pretty much the exact opposite of provisioning. It's main limiting factors seem to the much smaller supply, and that you need to actually look to find ingredients, as they do blend in rather well with the game's plant life.

Trying to think of economic reasons for provisioning, it still doesn't make much sense. The ingredients are so common that the main factor giving any value to the crafted food/drink is the fact that it's so much hassle to micromanage provisioning's space requirements. I don't see many people being willing to give up that much space to try and make a little money off of it. It's enough trouble trying to sort out and store just the ones we need ourselves.

As at least one other has mentioned before in this thread, trying to implement a softcap via micromanagement hassle and frustration is just a bad idea. Which right now, that seems to be the only sort of limit designed into provisioning. And provisioning is the only craft relying completely on such a method.

because not ever craft is the same, as simple as that. enchanting works differently than blacksmithing which again works differently than alchemy etc, each with different gains and how you acquire materials and purposes. the decisions in those craft is also different. I just disagree we're supposed to assume that we should be able to bank all of it "because it's a craft", since then the argument can easily switched for "because they are items" etc. that doesn't lead anywhere.

as for economy, some numbers: at 25 with brewer/chef I made roughly 1500-2000 gold after a public dungeon. and that's just the money. as I said before there are plenty of other reasons why provisioning stuff is so common: filler. resource management. more stuff for the player to figure out.

is inventory management frustrating? sure. but the human mind thrives on problem solving, even something so mundane as managing your inventory. of course everybody has a different tolerance level (I find sudoku pretty boring for example), yet it all has it's purpose. a game HAS to put problems in your way to figure out, and when you do the endorphin rush is just the same. that's basic game design.

for example:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/79193
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-09-04-warren-spectors-commandments-of-game-design
http://crln.acrl.org/content/73/8/465


it's the same as I'd complain why groups only consist of 4 people (other games have 5 or 6!), we only have 5 skills per bar (other games have more!), why are there only 4 classes (other games have more!), we only have 1 server (other games have more!), why there are no flying mounts (while other games have them) etc. etc. it's all part of the design. there's a point where you can question it ad nauseam or just accept it and move on. even if it means dropping the game when the frustration overshadows the enjoyment.

Reklawian

Stonie wrote: »

As other Elder Scroll games its all about choices.
If you want to loot everything and level several professions at once you will run out of bag space.
I love the micro managing and complexity of this game.
Convenience is great to a point but if they overdo it (as in wow) the players will become lazy and demand even more.

I hear you.

But what if you plan like me to have several toons each with it's own craft specialty.
At the moment the "shared banks" is hindering me to enjoy the game that way. My Templar is into Heavy Armor and weapons, My sorcerer is doing Alchemy and Light Armor. Going to go Wood Working and Medium Armor on my Nightblade toon.
I love micro-managing and love making choices that is why I want my classes to be unique with their craft skills so I can micro manage, but the game prevents me with it shared banks to make such choices.

So my issue's isn't with the amount of bank/inventory space because that seems fine if we didn't have shared banks.

Brennan

mr_stealth_b14_ESO wrote: »

Unless there is an unlimited amount of storage, there will be always be excess that is sold. I think the current setup for provisioning will prevent them from being sold simply because of the hassle of dealing with the vast amount of materials. If everyone follows the recommendation of only picking up the ingredients you need, that leaves much less left to be sold.

Again, for every tier of provisioning there are 3 foods and 3 drinks for each alliance. Each tier has a 2 main ingredients (AD Tier 1: Pork for Food - Aged Meat for Drink) and 6 "bases".

Unfortunately, the problem I see is that I am inadvertently collecting materials for Pact and Covenant recipes because I may or may not be knowledgeable about which alliance a particular ingredient is for. I would like to see more descriptive tool tips on recipes and ingredients. So that I know whether to keep that Snake Juice crap, the Hops, the Potato, etc. I think that information would be helpful but am also willing to bet that someone has already done that work and that it's a Google search away.

mr_stealth_b14_ESO wrote: »

I'm still managing to keep inventory/bank space under reasonable control, but I do feel that it is much more hassle than it should be. Enough hassle that it definitely effects the overall game experience.

I do agree that bugs and performance are much larger issues that should be dealt with first, but ZOS could still address/acknowledge this issue.

They did address/acknowledge it by increasing both inventory and bank space between Beta and Launch. Based on the countless threads, it's not been enough. But at what point is it enough?

mr_stealth_b14_ESO

Brennan wrote: »

Unfortunately, the problem I see is that I am inadvertently collecting materials for Pact and Covenant recipes because I may or may not be knowledgeable about which alliance a particular ingredient is for. I would like to see more descriptive tool tips on recipes and ingredients. So that I know whether to keep that Snake Juice crap, the Hops, the Potato, etc. I think that information would be helpful but am also willing to bet that someone has already done that work and that it's a Google search away.

That would be a huge step toward making the current system more reasonably manageable. I'm sure most people would have trouble remembering which alliance over 200 ingredients belong to, or what level of food/drink they make. I know I've figured out some of it by the lack of recipes asking for an item, but the game keeps throwing new items at me that I don't know if I should keep or toss.

I would actually prefer to see some streamlining within provisioning instead of simply increasing the inventory space. More informative tooltips might be enough, but I think some condensing of the amount of ingredients would make it more manageable.

Brennan

mr_stealth_b14_ESO wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

Unfortunately, the problem I see is that I am inadvertently collecting materials for Pact and Covenant recipes because I may or may not be knowledgeable about which alliance a particular ingredient is for. I would like to see more descriptive tool tips on recipes and ingredients. So that I know whether to keep that Snake Juice crap, the Hops, the Potato, etc. I think that information would be helpful but am also willing to bet that someone has already done that work and that it's a Google search away.

That would be a huge step toward making the current system more reasonably manageable. I'm sure most people would have trouble remembering which alliance over 200 ingredients belong to, or what level of food/drink they make. I know I've figured out some of it by the lack of recipes asking for an item, but the game keeps throwing new items at me that I don't know if I should keep or toss.

I would actually prefer to see some streamlining within provisioning instead of simply increasing the inventory space. More informative tooltips might be enough, but I think some condensing of the amount of ingredients would make it more manageable.

I like the diversity between alliances but it just needs to be made more manageable.

killedbyping

Why Horse mount do not consume inventory space ? Fix it asap !

Shin.raijinb16_ESO

I have 4 alts, because i want to be able to experience all classes in the game.

I have my alts spread on all 3 alliances because i want to experience all alliances equally.

Each of my alts specializes in one tradeskill 92 have 2 because there are 6) because i want to experience all crafts.

I am only level 18 (so tier 1-2), but as of now I have:
38 different beverage crafting mats
42 different food crafting mats
65 different rune/gem crafting mats
12 different style crafting mats
57 different herb/water crafting mats
10 misc. items (trophies/pets)

Having a single bank slot might be Ok if you have only one character, but each extra character you make has a relatively smaller and smaller bank space available to them.

Each character can not be expected to carry their own crafting materials with them at all times, but they dont have enough bank space to each deposit their respective mats to be able to go adventuring without a half-full bag each because they only have access to 1/4 of a bank each!

This is not a 'fun decision-making dilemna", Its a major oversight to those who like to play with alts.

Please add a personal bank on top of the shared one, even if it is smaller.

Rev Rielle

Sharee wrote: »

They have given an official answer and the short of it is: this is meant as a soft cap on your ability to learn multiple crafts at once.

Instead of a hard cap ("you can only learn 3 crafts on a single character") they allow you to learn all crafts, but ("if you try to do all at once, you will run out of bag space")

And i very much prefer the soft cap approach.

Exactly.

It's crystal clear how much space we have. If people want to fill it up and then complain, that is absolutely no ones fault except their own. The problem for the most part is simply that people are trying to play the game in a way it's not meant to be played, and then complaining bitterly about it when they find out it doesn't work.

radiostar

After completing the Provisioning craft to 50 with ability to prepare Veteran recipes, I have lots more bank and bag space. I'm going to do just one other craft and try to complete that before moving to a third craft. For me, doing one at a time seems to be working, along with having a guild to trade recipes and mats with. My bag now has about 15 items, including a stack of eats for myself as I go about questing, exploring, and gathering for my next craft to level up. My bank has about 20, after donating all the unused Provisioning mats to the Guild bank for others to use or the GL to sell.

copito

I spent all my gold and currently have 80 slots of space. Still after a good round of questing and gathering. I have to sell some items.

Sakiri

ElliottXO wrote: »

Phranq wrote: »

The way things work at the moment.. there is plenty of space to do all of the crafting skills just so long as you skip Provisioning.. provisioning has some 200+ ingredients so there is no way to store them all.

Provisioning is my highest craft and takes least space. Just don't collect everything but mats for recipes you actually have.

I dont do provisioning on the character I gather food with.

While I have a speadsheet of researched traits(ww, bs, clothing and chanter), I dont have one for my now 50 provisioner that happens to be a level 15 sorc.

Sakiri

nudel wrote: »

mr_stealth_b14_ESO wrote: »

The food buffs really are about equally minor. The amount of HP or magicka given is equal to 1-3 hits taken, or 1-2 spells cast.

Nope. Big difference here is that since the food buffs affect your Total Magicka or Total Stamina, they thereby increase the effectiveness of skills that use that resource. Don't believe me? Look at the bolded numbers in some of your skills. Now drink a buff and watch the numbers change. This causes your spells or feats to do more damage, which is not negligible at all.

Im overcharged *without* food.

I use regen rather than max, and only on magicka or health because my stamina regen is overcharged.

AlchemyDevil

Yeah, I understand your frustration OP. It's almost like a F2P game with a Cash Shop in the way they make us all struggle with our Inv and Bank space and charge an insane amount of in game gold for pack expansions. I will not be surprised at all if they suddenly add a "Pay $5 USD and we'll give you another 10 slots" option on their website.

Sharee

Shin.raijinb16_ESO wrote: »

I am only level 18 (so tier 1-2), but as of now I have:
38 different beverage crafting mats
42 different food crafting mats...

Once i maxed out the skill itself(provisioning at 50), i threw out all the ingredients for making foods/beverages that i don't use.

Right now i am using only one type of food, and that is the one increasing max health. That means i have to hoard exactly two food crafting mats.

Krym

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/74278/provisioning-ingredients-quick-reference

this might help.

AlchemyDevil wrote: »

I will not be surprised at all if they suddenly add a "Pay $5 USD and we'll give you another 10 slots" option on their website.

they haven't changed their name to turbine yet...

alenae1b14_ESO

So frustrated by the lack of bag space. I'm spending so much time shuffling resources between 5 soon to be 6 bank alts. My next backpack upgrade is 11,000 gold, the next bank upgrade is way out of reach as well. My main character has dropped enchanting entirely. She only crafts food and potions.

KiMiSi

Space issue is killing the game for me. I can't play the game the way I want, I can't save stuff in case I need it later on (I don't know at this point what I need and having to google everything spoils the experience and is a pain overall...)

I can't have different gear seats and weapons in my bag to try out as I quest my way through the game, there's no room for that.

Finding vendors during questing is near impossible and I can't empty my bags without simpy deleting items. And the game is built around looting, you are supposed to loot everything to find those extra treasures.

Trading guilds sound great, the problem is that it is mainly the sellers looking for it. Im the kind of person that loves to gather and grind and sell. It doesn't work in this game.

If this game had a server AH and a different system for storage I would most likely be in love with this game. It breaks my heart to see this big and fresh mmo ruined from what it feels like bad planning. As it is now I will not continue, the only reason I play now is because I spent a lot of money on the game and I actually feel "forced" to play... So I log on and play for a bit, end up with full inventory and start relogging back and forward trying to squeeze in stuff with bank alts.

This is my opinion and I know it is not an issue for some people but I do know it is a major issue for a lot. Can you just please respond to if this is the way it's going to be or if you are considering changing things. Please start to communicate with your customers.

Cascade_V

KiMiSi wrote: »

Space issue is killing the game for me.

Storagecraft at it's best

JTWolph_ESO

I don't know if I am allowed to post responses from support or not? Hope this doesn't get pulled. I am not going to copy/paste, just give a rundown of the response:

They agreed with the issue of bank space, especially for people who want to run their alts and craft. They think the complaints on this forum are completely valid.

However, they are not in control of what changes are made. They said they would create and submit the request for some bank resolutions with the information I submitted. I knew that e-mailing support is not a direct line to the Devs but I am glad to know that something is being submitted to the devs from a different direction than just these forum posts.

OK. So that all seemed a bit pointless and not terribly helpful or informative BUT the reason I am posting this is for this final point.

I did not ask for it, but a full refund was offered. Now, I spent $60 for a game and I got more play time than many other $60 games give me. I don't want a refund, I am not taking the refund. I want the game to be everything it could be for as many play styles as possible. I want the game to be what they said it would be in all the interviews and posts. If that happens, awesome! If not, well, I had fun with the game as it is but I won't subscribe until I can fully utilize my alts. I do love the game, I love the lore, I like how the quests work and I really like the crafting. To me, storage issues are just too big a departure from the last three TES games. Yes, I can have fun without crafting or with bypassing the storage issues but not $15 a month type fun.

But I know some people have said they do feel they deserve a refund, not just from the banking issue but the other problems and bugs that are going on. So I am posting this information to let people know there is a chance if they go to SUPPORT at the bottom of the page then submit an email, they may be able to get a refund.

Hopefully this won't be abused and people recognize that if they got even 15 or 20 hours of gameplay from the game, that is more than many other $60 games out there and a refund might not be warranted in that case. But I know some people are still unable to play for software or account reasons and hopefully those who want to walk away can get a refund without issue.

sin099eb17_ESO

Also adding to the bag space issue : items sometimes not stacking (think it does not affect normal bank, but is quite common in guild bank and very annoying).
So you need to take out merge and put in on regular basis.

Crafting material bank space would be great. The actuall system is not very good considering the amount of crafting material types (especielly provisioning)

Sothon

Its just so much pain for some Profs.
Enchanting>tons of different runes from start on+4 for each skill level. Glyphs dont even stack
Alchemy>almost same thing, just not extreme like enchanting
Provisioning>again, so many differents Materials. If you dont have the perfekt "matches" for a Food you always waist slots for leftover materials until you dont need them anymore.
Add the Traitstones/Style stones and even 100 slot bank feels like nothing. Right now i have to use a Guild Bank (500 slot) and switch the items like mad.

Musashi_X

I hate to rain on anyone's parade here, but being the devil's advocate that I am, can I offer you multiple "alt" (if you say "toon", you are a WoW child and can get bent) players perhaps a better explanation for the limited bag space.

Back in the days of old, there were these horrible businessmen who looked on the MMO market and said "Hey, we can make real money off these sad sack MMO lovers". So these terrible people created what we know as the RMT (Real Money Transaction) Companies. Those who profit off our 1st world egos with a "pay to win" mentality. They bought accounts and and started hoarding materials across multiple "alts", using bots to level their craft skills and crashing the auction houses with inflated prices all to proffer us with "10000g for $10" so we could buy their RMT crap.

That being said, (I know TL:DR) the bag cap across all of your Alts is a design put in place to cut down on these RMT jerks running multiple mules on one account.

If you are truly ADD enough to have the necessity to level up everything at once across multiple Alts, you have my deepest sympathies. However, understand that this game was designed for you to enjoy each character's development as a singular experience, with all the choices of what you keep and what you sell/destroy as integral to that character's development.

If you simply HAVE to level everything all at once, perhaps this is not the game for you. It is a subscription based game, after all.

That being said, ZOS does have a bit of streamlining to do with the craft professions. But I feel this thread is hardly befitting such a purpose.

Catches_the_Sun

Phranq wrote: »

I just read a post on another thread listing all of the provisioning ingredients they had found so far.. there are 111 ingredients listed (I counted). Take that bank space...

I am a level 50 Provisioner and was just as frustrated as you are. I ended up printing out a "cookbook" that shows ingredients by tier. My problem was that I was keeping ingredients for every tier, when I had no real use for them, or couldn't even cook the recipes yet. After keeping only the rarer ingredients, and the ingredients for my current tier, my bag space became much more manageable.

A week ago I was on these forums begging for more space & Provisioning bags. Now I get it. We're not meant to be able to hoard 5 tiers worth of ingredients. Let the up-and-coming Provisioners supply the lower level stuff. If you're cooking for a Guild, let them store the lower level ingredients in the Guild Bank & cook them up from time to time.

I am also a level 38 Blacksmith, so I'm storing all race & trait stones, along with ore. I have 90 spots in the bank & 108 slots in the bag. I'm carrying around 18 different weapons & armor awaiting research, 5 stacks of potions, 2 stacks of food/drink, all fishing bait & CE maps and pets, and other random stuff (costumes, lockpicks, etc). I can still go adventuring with 40-50 open slots in my pack, and it will only get better. The higher level Provisioning tiers use fewer total ingredients, and my bag space will increase.

Catches_the_Sun

Also should mention for the Provisioners...there is no need to carry ingredients whose associated recipes are only found in the other 2 Alliances. If you're dungeon-delving in the other Alliances, don't bother looting ingredients there & storing them. I had tons of ingredients that I didn't even have recipes for, because of this. When you're counting how many ingredients are "required" for Provisioners, it's not really fair to count them from all 3 Alliances.

Brennan

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

Also should mention for the Provisioners...there is no need to carry ingredients whose associated recipes are only found in the other 2 Alliances. If you're dungeon-delving in the other Alliances, don't bother looting ingredients there & storing them. I had tons of ingredients that I didn't even have recipes for, because of this. When you're counting how many ingredients are "required" for Provisioners, it's not really fair to count them from all 3 Alliances.

I put those "off-Alliance" ingredients in the guild bank. We have people that are playing Pact and Covenant and I figure this can help them as they are putting their Dominion stuff in there as well.

The other thing I would mention about the racial and trait stones is that you really don't need that many and most can be put in a guild bank for everyone to use. From my point of view I want Sardonyx for Reinforced on armor and Ruby for Precise on my bow. The others I can either grab from the GB or purchase for 15g.

Research - I have a lot researched already and a spreadsheet of what traits I have to research. I have an alt that has 80/80 items for future research. I can't see deconning stuff that I will use and I am certainly not going to carry 80 knick-knacks on my main while I'm out adventuring. Is it a challenge having to check my spreadsheet, decon the stuff with traits I know or that I have an item for already, and then bank transfer the stuff I need? Yes. It is a challenge but the alternative is to decon all of it and then find out I am missing something to research for a trait that I don't have yet.

The game is about choices.

JTWolph_ESO

[quote="Brennan;647227

I put those "off-Alliance" ingredients in the guild bank. We have people that are playing Pact and Covenant and I figure this can help them as they are putting their Dominion stuff in there as well.

The other thing I would mention about the racial and trait stones is that you really don't need that many and most can be put in a guild bank for everyone to use. From my point of view I want Sardonyx for Reinforced on armor and Ruby for Precise on my bow. The others I can either grab from the GB or purchase for 15g.

Research - I have a lot researched already and a spreadsheet of what traits I have to research. I have an alt that has 80/80 items for future research. I can't see deconning stuff that I will use and I am certainly not going to carry 80 knick-knacks on my main while I'm out adventuring. Is it a challenge having to check my spreadsheet, decon the stuff with traits I know or that I have an item for already, and then bank transfer the stuff I need? Yes. It is a challenge but the alternative is to decon all of it and then find out I am missing something to research for a trait that I don't have yet.

The game is about choices.
[/quote]

Yes, the game is about choices. But I am still looking for someone that is successfully crafting without using alts as mules or using a mod. Sacrificing alts should never ever be the norm. Alt mules should only be for the true hoarder ("Digital Hoarders", up next on A&E), not every crafter. I don't see how people can brush this off as "business as usual" when it is very unusual to have to use an alt this way, much less multiple alts.

The only thing I have ever used alt mules for in previous games was for storage for the Action House (or whatever the game called). I would send the things I meant to sell to other players to that character so they were all in one place and I could keep track of it without accidently destroying or vendoring valuable stuff. But that was not because I was ever out of space, it was just so I could be lazier when dealing with the AH.

Tetujin

I think it's literally frustrating and stressful for some people to not pick up everything available, and for others to not store and collect things for a rainy day.

Based on one of those four reductionist gamer categories, I forget the name, Wildstar even aimed one of their 'paths' (the Settler) directly at this group, it's based around the idea of, basically, "PICK UP ALL THE THINGS" and find a use for them later, and I've read squeals of joy on this from some. Doesn't do it for me, but I've come to accept that there are some who just have a hard time with this. Something like Provisioning is just guaranteed to push the nuclear button for someone who feels this way.

111 total ingredients? You say this as if it's proof that there is not enough space--the question of only using a subset of it hasn't crossed your mind, and this is what happened initially for me as well.

Find the single recipe you want to use and only pick up its ingredients, at any given level. It levels its way up very quickly. That's 2 at any time. 4 if you want another to adapt to circumstances. Know the next tier's ingredients, collect them early, thats 4 or 8. For me, it's 2 and my provisioning is over-levelled for where I am, I make more of that one item than I eat and I sell it off when I move on to the next level. Depending on what else you do, you might be able to double or triple all this or more, if you want to give or sell to players or something.

Also, I had a practical choice between enchanting and the three armor/weapon crafts. I could have done both if I stayed at a limited number of essense runes (do I really need them all?), but had enough to do for now with the other three. Maybe later.

I haven't run out of bank space (using about 50 right now), and after going to town and processing everything, I leave town with around 20 slots used. For me right now that's 70 to fill going out for the next round before I get choked. It was much different and i was also frustrated than this before I got some advice and tried adapting to it. My only remaining fear is to run out of room to keep trophies.

Dyvim

As I posted in another thread, I completely agree with the OP...its is silly to make a robust crafting game, with a bazillion components, where you ENCOURAGE players to take on 1 or more crafting professions....and then purposefully "friction" the game experience by knowingly making the inventory too tight.

This is BS and poor design that players who have played under better crafting materials storage systems (e.g., GW2) simply will not tolerate or accept. There is no reason for these arbitrary limits, especially when we already have soooo many other "frictions", like skill point requirements for crafting, and no general auction house to sell our goods, etc.

The solution is an easy one, and has been wildly successful and very well received in GW2...shared, high storage vault for all crafting items for all alts on a given account.

understeer

The storage is a problem, also for me, I on my main do all profections bar woodwording and clothing. I was crippled at the start and even just a few days ago I would fill up and start destroying items in mints after starting questing.

I do think that having an infinite bag or bank is too much, I like questing and exploring but I do like having to manage my items.

NerdKaiser

I think there's an argument to be made either way about whether having to manage your inventory is good (it's a matter of priorities) or bad (it's needless busy work) but I think there a few indefensible problems with the current system.

1) Treasure maps and pets take up inventory space. This is pointless. I will probably just delete my pets soon, and I had to store my maps on a bank alt and then waste time transferring them back to the bank when I access a new area. Why not just have them be "collected" by the character for later use like so many other games?

2) There are way too many crafting items. No other game requires so many different types of materials, plus racial materials, plus trait materials. Just consolidate them. It's pointless. It's not even like they have a lot of value.

3) There's no room to keep trophies/items with RP value. I understand many people don't care about that, but a lot do. Why should I be forced to sell the King's Justice, granted to me by King Casimir for saving his life? I wanted to keep that sword as a memento and a badge of honor, but the game just won't accommodate me.