Not enough bag space even with upgrades

Laerian

lypheb16_ESO wrote: »

I'd love to see more bank space ... BUT ... I'd also be cool if there was a dev'chat explaining the philosophy for limited bank space, if there is one. If the design is not to really save mats for more than 1-2 profs or whatever.

This is the "philosophy":

Q: I love the fact that you can leave items in your bank and still use them for crafting. My concern is, I guess I horde to much of everything since I'm crafting everything, and run out of space really really quick. Is there away to fix this, or should i simple just keep selling my mats and make low level items to makes space?

A: I would say you are going to have to make some choices about what you keep and what you don't. Bank space / inventory space is another limiter to being able to work on all crafting skills at once. It isn't impossible, it is just harder if that is what you choose to do. There's also a TV show about your "problem."

---

The current system has people constantly extracting, crafting, shuffling, destroying and selling items to make room -in order order to continue playing the game- instead of doing it because they want it or need it in a healthy gameplay.

All games have inventory management of course but not everytime you get to a town or shrine to fast travel.

mr_stealth_b14_ESO

Laerian wrote: »

lypheb16_ESO wrote: »

I'd love to see more bank space ... BUT ... I'd also be cool if there was a dev'chat explaining the philosophy for limited bank space, if there is one. If the design is not to really save mats for more than 1-2 profs or whatever.

This is the "philosophy":

Q: I love the fact that you can leave items in your bank and still use them for crafting. My concern is, I guess I horde to much of everything since I'm crafting everything, and run out of space really really quick. Is there away to fix this, or should i simple just keep selling my mats and make low level items to makes space?

A: I would say you are going to have to make some choices about what you keep and what you don't. Bank space / inventory space is another limiter to being able to work on all crafting skills at once. It isn't impossible, it is just harder if that is what you choose to do. There's also a TV show about your "problem."

The thing is that working on the crafts isn't the problem. The existing system is pretty good for leveling 2, maybe 3, crafts on a character as you are leveling. The problem shows up when you try to utilize that craft to provide items for other characters that are leveling.

What we should be able to do is swap to the crafting character, make the items from previously gathered material, bank them, and go back to the character that needs them. Then we can loot some replacement materials as we level, and have them for when they are needed again.

What we actually have with provisioning is the need to throw away lower level materials to conserve space. This means that when an alt needs them we have to start from scratch and re-gather everything that is needed. There are two methods of accomplishing this.

1) We have to take our higher level character back to lower level zones to gather. Spend time in a zone we've already completed to get ingredients, then go back to town to craft them, put them in the bank, and swap character to retrieve them.

2) Start playing the lower level character without food/drink buffs, gather the ingredients, put the ingredients into the bank, swap to the character with provisioning, retrieve the ingredients from the bank, go craft the food/drink, take them back to the bank, then swap to the low level character and retrieve the items. This method is also even more tedious if the alt is in a different alliance, as you will be dealing with new, unfamiliar recipes and ingredients.

Both methods require sorting out just which ingredients you need out of the very large selection of provisioning ingredients. This can get rather tedious, especially when you consider that many ingredients are similar to those in other tiers/levels (broth, thin broth; goat bits, goat meat) and the ingredients' tooltips provide no information as to which tier they belong in. Both methods also involve doing something that I don't think many of us consider fun. Either running around with an over-leveled character one-shotting most enemies or playing a ridiculous game of inventory/bank juggling.

I'd like to be able to play and level my characters, not have to scrounge and re-gather items I already had last week or waste time staring at loading screens and the bank UI.

Wanderinlost

tradegood bank + deposit materials directly into tradegood bank+ deconstruct/research anywhere.

Right now juggling inventory space is a major problem and im only on teir one. Dealing with inventory should take seconds, right now it is interfereing with gameplay. I suppose it will get better but it especially hard when you start getting materials you may or may not need for an unknown tier of crafiting.Provisioning materials are the worst but there is all around not enough space and it is extremely inconvienient to mule or travel to a bank/crafting station every hour.

zhevon

The logic

knightblaster wrote: »

It came up in the beta, apparently. The philosophy is that the storage limits are a "soft cap" on the number of professions you can feasibly do on one character. A hard cap, like many/most other games have, is un-TES, so they have a soft cap which basically makes it unfeasible for the most part to do more than 2-3 on one character. The skills system is another way that goal is achieved, but the storage system is the more direct way.

Thats stupid - limiting bank space limits your account; it doesn't just limit your character. I remember hearing about this before I was even interested in ESO, but at the time I was unaware how many materials there really are. It becoming painful for me, even not putting provisioning stuff in the bank. At a certain point I will probably quite out of frustration because a significant amount of time is spent shuffling stuff between characters. This is not the only area of frustration I am currently having but it is the worst and least fun time sink.

Phranq

The way things work at the moment.. there is plenty of space to do all of the crafting skills just so long as you skip Provisioning.. provisioning has some 200+ ingredients so there is no way to store them all.

ElliottXO

Phranq wrote: »

The way things work at the moment.. there is plenty of space to do all of the crafting skills just so long as you skip Provisioning.. provisioning has some 200+ ingredients so there is no way to store them all.

Provisioning is my highest craft and takes least space. Just don't collect everything but mats for recipes you actually have.

mr_stealth_b14_ESO

There are 27 ingredients used in just the recipes I know between level 1-25. It has already passed the total storage required for all alchemy ingredients. And that only includes recipes from one alliance. I am also missing a few recipes, such as whatever the level 10 wine recipe is. And I only have 2 of the blue/1 hour recipes so far.

Even if the reported 200+ ingredients are spread evenly among the alliances, that is still over 65 ingredients per alliance. Which still leaves provisioning well above the storage requirements of any other craft. And since the ingredients do drop cross-alliance, there isn't a way to tell if an ingredient is needed for your own alliance's recipes until you are certain that you know all those recipes.

The existence of per-alliances ingredients/recipes also complicates storing and crafting for characters in those alliances. And once my highest level character reaches veteran ranks and can travel to other alliance areas, I will have to start collecting those ingredients or return to my homeland for ingredients.

The space requirements for provisioning won't return to a reasonable amount until all of our characters are max level, and when the needed ingredients can be condensed down to a single alliance.

KaizerXul

You should not have to create a character to hold extra materials and items. That costs you a character slot and is just plain stupid.

JTWolph_ESO

Soft caps are fine. In fact, in many MMOs there are bank soft caps. No, I do not want to perform every craft on one character (even tho they said I could). And no, I do not know of any MMO that lets you craft everything on one character.

BUT
In other MMOs the bank is not shared. In other MMOs I *CAN* do all professions by spreading those professions among my ALTS. And YES, by spreading out those professions, and thusly, the mats, I have always been able to store AT LEAST one stack of EVERY MAT in those games.

If the bank were not shared but remained the same size, then I could easily have:
Toon1=Blacksmithing-Weapons
Toon2=Blacksmithing-Armor
Toon3=Clothing-Light
Toon4=Clothing-Medium
Toon5=Enchanting
Toon6=Alchemy
Toon7=Woodworking
Toon8=Provisioning (Though, granted, with the current 110 cap, I still wouldn't be able to store all Provisioning mats.)



I am not a "Min/Max"er. I am a casual player.

I have over a thousand hours each on Oblivion and Skyrim with probably hundreds on Daggerfall and Morrowind. I have never "beat" any of them. I have probably read every single book in all four of the TES games I have played, at least once (but I am forgetful so I reread books pretty often). I read all NPC dialogue and choose every available dialogue option.

I will never do a raid in ESO. If the storage issue is fixed and I stick around, I will most likely never do a 4-man dungeon. I will likely never do PVP either.

I solo. I am here, in an MMO, because I read many times, in many places the devs say they were going to cater to the SOLO player as well as the "Hardcore" players. The SOLO "end-game" is the ability to start the character over as a new faction (although I have yet to read the details on how that works as I will likely never do that). Where the more dedicated, social, or "hardcore" players have dungeons and raids and PVP for their end-game.

When they said:
"If you choose to do so, you can advance in or even master every crafting profession we have—just keep in mind that skill points are limited. A skill point spent in crafting is one you didn’t spend on a combat skill that you might want on the battlefield, so make sure you consider your choices carefully."

They DID NOT SAY that limited bank space would make it so you could only Master all crafts by doing them one at a time then deleting all your mats to work on another one. They did not say you would have to sacrifice alts to do it, just to have the space. They did not say that you will have delete 75% of the mats you come across and just focus on a few patterns/recipes to level up those professions.

By listing skill limitations and not bank limitations they either did not intend for the bank to limit us in this way or they were simply being DISHONEST by withholding the truth.

I, and many people, would not have bought the game if we had known the bank would be so limiting. Someone previously said in the thread they didn't think that people would quick over bank space. Well, I have canceled my account. If they fix this, I will be subscribe again.

Usually, people who play like I do are not very vocal in forums or other online communities. Normally, I don't post to forums either. If this was a random new IP fantasy MMO, I wouldn't be posting about this issue at all. I simply wouldn't play the game.

But this is ELDER SCROLLS. This is a world I have been gaming in for 20 years. I care about this IP and will happily explore every corner of it and read every Lorebook within it over the next year or more if they will let me. I guess if the bank wasn't a problem, I might still have posted to the forums... begging for a lifetime subscription.

I am not an idiot. I am not a child. I know there are ways around the bank limitations. But re-logging 5 times due to ALT-shuffling every time I come to town or using a mod to convert my mail into bank space and yes, even deleting mats I want to keep, all kill the immersion that Elder Scrolls games are known and loved for.

If you take away the immersion, this stops being an Elder Scrolls game and starts just being a generic MMO. Yes, there are fans of generic MMOs. But I would think everyone would rather have both the Elder Scrolls fans AND the MMO fans to extend the life of the game and keep the revenue flowing in enough that devs don't get laid off and expansions don't take years to be released.

No, my gaming style is not the same as most of the people that visit these forums. But, if there were a designed soft cap on stats or damage output that effected the Min/Max-ers and Hardcore Raiding guilds they would probably create threads begging the Devs for change. Well, I wouldn't post to their threads saying "I don't have that problem." or "That is how it is designed, adapt or go play something else." And I certainly wouldn't give them advice on how to bypass their limitation while hypocritically saying the limitation isn't a problem. If you have to bypass or "work around" a "limitation" then that limitation shouldn't be there.

Cascade_V

I read through all of the above (it took a bit)...

I'd like more storage space.

The game is frustrating for me..I'm already dreading logging back in to play "Storagecraft"

Brennan

JTWolph_ESO wrote: »

Soft caps are fine. In fact, in many MMOs there are bank soft caps. No, I do not want to perform every craft on one character (even tho they said I could). And no, I do not know of any MMO that lets you craft everything on one character.

BUT
In other MMOs the bank is not shared. In other MMOs I *CAN* do all professions by spreading those professions among my ALTS. And YES, by spreading out those professions, and thusly, the mats, I have always been able to store AT LEAST one stack of EVERY MAT in those games.

If the bank were not shared but remained the same size, then I could easily have:
Toon1=Blacksmithing-Weapons
Toon2=Blacksmithing-Armor
Toon3=Clothing-Light
Toon4=Clothing-Medium
Toon5=Enchanting
Toon6=Alchemy
Toon7=Woodworking
Toon8=Provisioning (Though, granted, with the current 110 cap, I still wouldn't be able to store all Provisioning mats.)



I am not a "Min/Max"er. I am a casual player.

I have over a thousand hours each on Oblivion and Skyrim with probably hundreds on Daggerfall and Morrowind. I have never "beat" any of them. I have probably read every single book in all four of the TES games I have played, at least once (but I am forgetful so I reread books pretty often). I read all NPC dialogue and choose every available dialogue option.

I will never do a raid in ESO. If the storage issue is fixed and I stick around, I will most likely never do a 4-man dungeon. I will likely never do PVP either.

I solo. I am here, in an MMO, because I read many times, in many places the devs say they were going to cater to the SOLO player as well as the "Hardcore" players. The SOLO "end-game" is the ability to start the character over as a new faction (although I have yet to read the details on how that works as I will likely never do that). Where the more dedicated, social, or "hardcore" players have dungeons and raids and PVP for their end-game.

When they said:
"If you choose to do so, you can advance in or even master every crafting profession we have—just keep in mind that skill points are limited. A skill point spent in crafting is one you didn’t spend on a combat skill that you might want on the battlefield, so make sure you consider your choices carefully."

They DID NOT SAY that limited bank space would make it so you could only Master all crafts by doing them one at a time then deleting all your mats to work on another one. They did not say you would have to sacrifice alts to do it, just to have the space. They did not say that you will have delete 75% of the mats you come across and just focus on a few patterns/recipes to level up those professions.

By listing skill limitations and not bank limitations they either did not intend for the bank to limit us in this way or they were simply being DISHONEST by withholding the truth.

I, and many people, would not have bought the game if we had known the bank would be so limiting. Someone previously said in the thread they didn't think that people would quick over bank space. Well, I have canceled my account. If they fix this, I will be subscribe again.

Usually, people who play like I do are not very vocal in forums or other online communities. Normally, I don't post to forums either. If this was a random new IP fantasy MMO, I wouldn't be posting about this issue at all. I simply wouldn't play the game.

But this is ELDER SCROLLS. This is a world I have been gaming in for 20 years. I care about this IP and will happily explore every corner of it and read every Lorebook within it over the next year or more if they will let me. I guess if the bank wasn't a problem, I might still have posted to the forums... begging for a lifetime subscription.

I am not an idiot. I am not a child. I know there are ways around the bank limitations. But re-logging 5 times due to ALT-shuffling every time I come to town or using a mod to convert my mail into bank space and yes, even deleting mats I want to keep, all kill the immersion that Elder Scrolls games are known and loved for.

If you take away the immersion, this stops being an Elder Scrolls game and starts just being a generic MMO. Yes, there are fans of generic MMOs. But I would think everyone would rather have both the Elder Scrolls fans AND the MMO fans to extend the life of the game and keep the revenue flowing in enough that devs don't get laid off and expansions don't take years to be released.

No, my gaming style is not the same as most of the people that visit these forums. But, if there were a designed soft cap on stats or damage output that effected the Min/Max-ers and Hardcore Raiding guilds they would probably create threads begging the Devs for change. Well, I wouldn't post to their threads saying "I don't have that problem." or "That is how it is designed, adapt or go play something else." And I certainly wouldn't give them advice on how to bypass their limitation while hypocritically saying the limitation isn't a problem. If you have to bypass or "work around" a "limitation" then that limitation shouldn't be there.

Have fun playing whatever game you decide to play once your subscription runs out. Sorry the game's inventory frustrated you so terribly. Best of luck.

Krym

Laerian wrote: »

There are several factors that should take into account: hardware cost (database, server stress) the average number of elements obtained by the players in some playing time, how it works in practice, etc. I'm sure you can figure it more.

my point was there's always something helpful for another char (like the mats here) you want to keep but can't. just because every character can pick it up - what almost no other game allows you to - it doesn't mean you're able to store everything in the most comfortable way. why should crafting stuff be any different, considering how different crafting is here?

regarding technical factors: that's pr-speech to calm the players. in truth it almost always has economical reasons. like the code is so screwed up the manpower to "fix" it is not feasible. technically a lot is possible if properly designed and implemented, not duct-taped together to make the launch date.

speaking of duct-tape, I just lost all my bank-upgrades .... yay zenimax.

JTWolph_ESO wrote: »

No, I do not want to perform every craft on one character (even tho they said I could). And no, I do not know of any MMO that lets you craft everything on one character.

BUT
In other MMOs the bank is not shared. In other MMOs I *CAN* do all professions by spreading those professions among my ALTS. And YES, by spreading out those professions, and thusly, the mats, I have always been able to store AT LEAST one stack of EVERY MAT in those games.

No, my gaming style is not the same as most of the people that visit these forums. But, if there were a designed soft cap on stats or damage output that effected the Min/Max-ers and Hardcore Raiding guilds they would probably create threads begging the Devs for change. Well, I wouldn't post to their threads saying "I don't have that problem." or "That is how it is designed, adapt or go play something else." And I certainly wouldn't give them advice on how to bypass their limitation while hypocritically saying the limitation isn't a problem. If you have to bypass or "work around" a "limitation" then that limitation shouldn't be there.

apples and oranges, we've been over this. you want it to play like other mmos? fine

- bank is not shared anymore
- you have to invest SP to be able to gather the items for your char's craft
- one craft per char
- if you want to move stuff over you have to mail it (hope you got the money) or trade it via a third party (don't complain if you get scammed).
- you'll still be running out of space at some point...

does that feel like elder scrolls? you know what they say, be careful what you wish for...

zenimax gives you the ability to craft and pick up ingredients with every char - even if you don't want to the possiblity is there. on the other hand your shared space is limited for balance. you can't have everything.

this game might have an elder scrolls name, but it's also a mmo. as such, it has different requirements and limitations compared to a singleplayer RPG. no one cares if someone mods oblivion to hell and back for the perfect experience, but that doesn't work in a mmo.

as for your crude comparison to raiders (which shows you've never been one): "those" people deal with it. ability broken? boss overtuned? sure they complain, but at the same time they figure out a way to beat it nonetheless for the challenge, to beat the competition and the prestige that comes with it. they play the game for a different reason than you with completely different goals, any assumption in this regard is foolish.


look, I get it, everybody has "that" dealbreaker that makes him or her quit a game. you, me, everyone in this thread. all I can say is that you miss a great game, maybe you'll be able to enjoy it later after you took a step back and come to terms with the changes. if yes, I'm happy for you. of not.. well, nothing that can be done about it.

mr_stealth_b14_ESO

grayssonb16_ESO wrote: »

my point was there's always something helpful for another char (like the mats here) you want to keep but can't. just because every character can pick it up - what almost no other game allows you to - it doesn't mean you're able to store everything in the most comfortable way. why should crafting stuff be any different, considering how different crafting is here?

If that is the design philosophy, then why is it so easy to keep most/all materials for most other crafts? Keeping just 1/3 of the provisioning ingredients uses up more space than any other craft, and over 2x the space as keeping every alchemy ingredient.

With alchemy, blacksmithing, woodworking, and clothing, storing materials for alts only requires 1-2 spaces per tier. For provisioning, storing just one additional tier doubles the space requirement. For a craft that offers relatively minor buffs, why is the space requirement so high?

In my opinion, alchemy has much more powerful/useful items, but it's only limited by the lower amount of ingredients found in the world. You can overcome that by actively hunting ingredients. Provisioning is limited by the ridiculous number of ingredients, and there is no solution other than simply not keeping most of them.

nudel

JTWolph_ESO wrote: »

No, my gaming style is not the same as most of the people that visit these forums. But, if there were a designed soft cap on stats or damage output that effected the Min/Max-ers and Hardcore Raiding guilds they would probably create threads begging the Devs for change. Well, I wouldn't post to their threads saying "I don't have that problem." or "That is how it is designed, adapt or go play something else." And I certainly wouldn't give them advice on how to bypass their limitation while hypocritically saying the limitation isn't a problem. If you have to bypass or "work around" a "limitation" then that limitation shouldn't be there.

Herein lies the problem. You are approaching this as if it were a solo game. It isn't. You can solo. However, unlike Morrowind and Oblivion and Skyrim, all of which could be modded and tweaked to fit your unique desires and playstyle, this game has other players. And the changes you want impact other players.

That is why people are posting their difference of opinion here. It's not that they have a problem with your opinion. It's not that they dislike you or think your style of play should be punished. It is simply that if they let you and a token few be the lone few to populate this thread, then ZOS might implement the changes you ask for, changes which they may not want.

That is the point. People are not trying to troll you. If you would not post in a thread that affected min/maxers or raids, that can be a bad thing for you in the long run. It depends what the thread is about. If the min/max thread has to do with something like stat points, then it does affect you even as a solo player. And if you don't air your point of view, then ZOS will only assume that the opinion in that thread is the only opinion.

So if someone says 'I don't have that problem' or 'That is how it is designed' then they are not all necessarily being ***. I can't speak for everyone here. But the majority of the posts I've seen here (aside from yours which seem insanely defensive) have been nothing but neutral and constructive.

knightblaster

You can manage it with alt mules. It is irritating and very time-consuming, and as a result of that I have shelved all of my crafting for the time being, but I like the rest of the game, so it's fine for me for the time being. The rest of the game is still enjoyable for me.

nudel

Provisioning is not a problem.
Your approach to provisioning is a problem.

There are two reasons for having lots of Provisioning mats in the game.
1) It creates variety.
Since the profession only really has a limited number of options (Fortify stat or Fortify regen), different themed versions each with local ingredients create nice variety. It's largely cosmetic and for immersion. Rather than having all three Alliances eat the same types of food, they have different things to eat. If you weren't crafting these things and excessively looting them, you'd probably be praising how cool it is that there are so many different foods to roleplay on your character. Or if you didn't care about roleplay, you'd just take the food you want and leave the rest in their sacks.

2) It allows for more things to be lootable.
A big part of TES games is that just about everything was interactive. There were tons of fluff items in Skyrim for instance: Burned Books, Iron Pots, Apples (which restored an amount of HP so small it was laughable), etc. These items were not worth picking up in the grand scheme of things, but you could do so if you wanted to. The point is Provisioning ingredients are the Iron Pots and Burned Books in ESO.

Let that last bit sink in for a minute...

You don't need to keep Provisioning mats. You really don't. They are so damned plentiful. There are even a few Grocer NPCs that sell them. So, you don't have to worry about storing them in your bank and you should only be picking them up if you're almost out of a certain buff and you need that specific ingredient to make it right now. Stop worrying about saving them for your alt. They can be looted from all the sacks and crates in town in 5 minutes or less when you need them. It does not take as long as looting Runestones or Iron Ore, so it's not even worth comparing them. Or you could go to a grocer and get what you need.

You can lvl Provisioning and craft buffs for yourself and alts without keeping mats in your bank.

Seriously guys. The Provisioning mats are in all the sacks and chests b/c it's more interesting than opening every container and finding only lockpicks or Empty. It's fun and immersive and in the spirit of TES games to see food plentiful in areas where NPCs are probably EATING. They are not there to screw with your bank or force you to make mules. They're simply fluff.

Let em go...

nudel

Also a final point, @mr_stealth_b14_ESO‌

"I've had a bit better results by throwing out all of the food ingredients, and focusing only on the drinks. But that is a rather bad workaround to have to ignore an entire category of consumables. "

You're not missing anything there. I'll give you a little tip here. The regen buffs are pretty useless. That +2 or +3 Magicka regen translates to getting 2 extra Magicka every 2 seconds. That's how your regen numbers work in the character sheet. x number of Mag/Stam/HP restored every 2 seconds. So the drinks and likewise recovery jewelry is not all that useful.

Really, you're better off eating a food.

Krym

mr_stealth_b14_ESO wrote: »

grayssonb16_ESO wrote: »

my point was there's always something helpful for another char (like the mats here) you want to keep but can't. just because every character can pick it up - what almost no other game allows you to - it doesn't mean you're able to store everything in the most comfortable way. why should crafting stuff be any different, considering how different crafting is here?

If that is the design philosophy, then why is it so easy to keep most/all materials for most other crafts? Keeping just 1/3 of the provisioning ingredients uses up more space than any other craft, and over 2x the space as keeping every alchemy ingredient.

With alchemy, blacksmithing, woodworking, and clothing, storing materials for alts only requires 1-2 spaces per tier. For provisioning, storing just one additional tier doubles the space requirement. For a craft that offers relatively minor buffs, why is the space requirement so high?

In my opinion, alchemy has much more powerful/useful items, but it's only limited by the lower amount of ingredients found in the world. You can overcome that by actively hunting ingredients. Provisioning is limited by the ridiculous number of ingredients, and there is no solution other than simply not keeping most of them.

I would ask why each craft should have the same amount resources. you can also max provisioning pretty fast (I hit 50 around lvl 20), enchanting on the other hand... although I've seen complaints about that as well.
it's also free money (you get way more stuff than you'll ever be able to use for yourself).

if enchanting is the "hardcore" profession provisioning is the casual one: everyone can max it, resources are pretty easy to find and plentiful etc. maybe the devs want us pick up provisioning on every char hence the amount of mats that makes muling more difficult. I don't know and I don't really need to, I do know it was implemented with a specific idea and purpose, if the way it is becomes to cumbersome or "un-fun" I don't do it, the choice is always there (I accept that a game has me jump through hoops and gives me things to figure out, that's the point. everyone has to decide for himself if he likes a certain aspect and how he deals with it)

knightblaster wrote: »

You can manage it with alt mules. It is irritating and very time-consuming, and as a result of that I have shelved all of my crafting for the time being, but I like the rest of the game, so it's fine for me for the time being. The rest of the game is still enjoyable for me.

with the bank-reset bug you pretty much have to anyway..

nudel

With the Provisioning aspect out of the way, let's address the actual state of affairs with the bank. I'll try to keep this shorter.

Reasons for having limited storage:

--- It creates a gold sink, removing gold from the economy, which helps combat inflation. All those bank and backpack upgrades = gold you're not spending on trade. If you don't want to have to sell your first born child to buy a stack of 100 Iron Ingots, you should really be supporting this feature.

--- It creates greater demand for high lvl crafting, encouraging trade. If there exist soft caps which make mastering ALL the things inconvenient, fewer will do so. Thus fewer will be able to make their own Heavy Armor and Shield and enchants for those and buffs and potions. If not for this, the only thing being exchanged would be crafting mats and they would be exceedingly expensive b/c everyone would want them.

But I'm a solo-player. I don't care about trading or the economy. Why do I have to be limited?

I'm sorry buddy. This is a MMO and that means what you're asking for affects that economy even if you don't participate. I know it's not the TESVI you were hoping for. It was never gonna be. It's a pretty fun game in its own right though.

knightblaster

Thing is, you can just opt out of crafting, economy and so on, and just sell stuff to vendors. Makes the game more streamlined and enjoyable, frankly. Without crafting, I don't care at all about the inventory/bank stuff -- it's irrelevant, because unless you are collecting mats/decons/researches, there is plenty of space. So, by opting out of the crafting system, you can simplify your game and probably enjoy it a lot more rather than following fiddly rules that feel unnatural and stress out what should be something enjoyable to pass the time.

Laerian

Yeah probably we should start thinking TESO like a Counter Strike clone instead of a MMORPG.

mr_stealth_b14_ESO

nudel wrote: »

You don't need to keep Provisioning mats. You really don't. They are so damned plentiful. There are even a few Grocer NPCs that sell them. So, you don't have to worry about storing them in your bank and you should only be picking them up if you're almost out of a certain buff and you need that specific ingredient to make it right now. Stop worrying about saving them for your alt. They can be looted from all the sacks and crates in town in 5 minutes or less when you need them. It does not take as long as looting Runestones or Iron Ore, so it's not even worth comparing them. Or you could go to a grocer and get what you need.

This is precisely one of the problems some of us have mentioned with provisioning. The need for either inventory juggling between alts, the bank, and the crafting character, or having to take the crafting character back to an early area for gathering (this at least avoids some of the juggling). The large number of ingredients, even within a single tier, also makes the process of determining and finding exactly what you need more tedious than it should be. It is great that there are containers with ingredients all over, but it's not so great that only one out of every dozen or more actually has what I'm looking for in it.

nudel wrote: »

Also a final point, @mr_stealth_b14_ESO‌

"I've had a bit better results by throwing out all of the food ingredients, and focusing only on the drinks. But that is a rather bad workaround to have to ignore an entire category of consumables. "

You're not missing anything there. I'll give you a little tip here. The regen buffs are pretty useless. That +2 or +3 Magicka regen translates to getting 2 extra Magicka every 2 seconds. That's how your regen numbers work in the character sheet. x number of Mag/Stam/HP restored every 2 seconds. So the drinks and likewise recovery jewelry is not all that useful.

Really, you're better off eating a food.

The food buffs really are about equally minor. The amount of HP or magicka given is equal to 1-3 hits taken, or 1-2 spells cast.

Woozy

It simply hinders Gameplay if i have to stop playing every hour (!) to mule that stuff from one toon to another, what takes another 30min, cause there're slowly running out of space too.

I really like to hear something new from Devs about this topic.

It's clearly a design mistake, so take it on plz!

derpmonster

Any new mmo out there could do well to take a page from GW2s book as far as inventory management goes.

Desposit all button for collectables and each type of collectable has it's own storage. There's 0 reason why this couldn't be in the game.

Krym

knightblaster wrote: »

It is great that there are containers with ingredients all over, but it's not so great that only one out of every dozen or more actually has what I'm looking for in it.

when they streamline it 75% of the containers will be empty. that'd suck for a lot of people. getting something even if it's trash is still better than getting (empty) for the fifth time in a row. could they just make it all vendor trash? sure, but then people would complain you can't carry it all around (devs can't really win, someone will always complain about something). maybe they even want you to figure out what to keep and make decisions instead of marking half your inventory as junk and dump it at a merchant.

there isn't really a reason not to take provisioning, the SP are there while leveling.

derpmonster wrote: »

Any new mmo out there could do well to take a page from GW2s book as far as inventory management goes.

Desposit all button for collectables and each type of collectable has it's own storage. There's 0 reason why this couldn't be in the game.

a stack in gw2 is 250, if you want to store more you have to use your normal inventory (which I repeatedly had to). it made it look more tidy than it really was.

Xexpo

I promise I'm not trolling, but I just don't understand how maxed bag and bank doesn't give you enough space ... unless you are hoarding tons of stuff.
I read the first 6 pages and most of this page, and its still beyond my understanding. This isn't like other games, you don't need 4 stacks of Brown Malt because you might "use it" later. Materials are really easy to get and are in endless supply, there is no need to hoard mountains of mats "for later".
My main crafter is lvl 34, has 47 provisioning, and 15+ in the rest, and all I have is one bank and one bag upgrade. Admittedly, Enchanting can take up a lot of space until you realize most of the runes are garbage but, I really haven't had a space problem. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

mr_stealth_b14_ESO

grayssonb16_ESO wrote: »

a stack in gw2 is 250, if you want to store more you have to use your normal inventory (which I repeatedly had to). it made it look more tidy than it really was.

250 of the base and refined material gets you pretty far, though. There are items that take larger amounts, but that is only very high-end or prestige gear. They are also selling expansions for that stack limit, which I believe can go up to 1500 now.

And I've encountered another issue with provisioning. I'm currently level 26, and only getting ingredients for level 30 and 35 recipes. I'm not sure if my stash of level 25 consumables will hold out till I actually reach 30. I think I have enough from what I had gathered in the previous area, but I would have been sure to pick up more had I known this would happen. My current supply of level 25 ingredients consists of 10-15 of one required ingredient, and 0 of the other.

It's certainly annoying that a level 26, doing level 24-26 content, is only getting level 30+ ingredients. I can't even use the ingredients I'm picking up now unless I spend another skillpoint. I have other skills that are higher priority than being able to craft consumables that I can't even use yet. At least I do have a head start on ingredients I'll need at level 30.

Krym

mr_stealth_b14_ESO wrote: »

250 of the base and refined material gets you pretty far, though. There are items that take larger amounts, but that is only very high-end or prestige gear. They are also selling expansions for that stack limit, which I believe can go up to 1500 now.

And I've encountered another issue with provisioning. I'm currently level 26, and only getting ingredients for level 30 and 35 recipes. I'm not sure if my stash of level 25 consumables will hold out till I actually reach 30. I think I have enough from what I had gathered in the previous area, but I would have been sure to pick up more had I known this would happen. My current supply of level 25 ingredients consists of 10-15 of one required ingredient, and 0 of the other.

It's certainly annoying that a level 26, doing level 24-26 content, is only getting level 30+ ingredients. I can't even use the ingredients I'm picking up now unless I spend another skillpoint. I have other skills that are higher priority than being able to craft consumables that I can't even use yet. At least I do have a head start on ingredients I'll need at level 30.

stopped playing g2 a few months after release, so don't know about upgrades. until then it it was quite annoying sometimes too (not to mention you never had enough space anyway...)

regarding cooking materials, those are separated by zone. unless you travel between zones there is no need to keep the stuff from the previous zone (especially those you get much more often, after leaving stormhaven I had like 186 venison...)

knightblaster

derpmonster wrote: »

Any new mmo out there could do well to take a page from GW2s book as far as inventory management goes.

Desposit all button for collectables and each type of collectable has it's own storage. There's 0 reason why this couldn't be in the game.

Not defending the system here, because I also dislike it as it currently stands, but the devs will say that the difference is that GW2 limits you in terms of professions you can take on one character (only two "active" at once, with switching costs), whereas TESO does not have this kind of hard or even "paid" cap. It's a soft/frustration cap (so that they can still say it's TES-like in "not preventing you from playing how you want" ... just frustrating you if you don't play how THEY want you to) -- they are trying to discourage you from doing more than 1-2 crafts at a time, across all characters, by this system. In part it's an emulated hard cap on crafting professions you can take, and in part it's an economy issue, but overall I think it's a terrible lever to use to regulate these things. People take to hard caps much better than they do to soft/frustration caps.

knightblaster

kaer426 wrote: »

I promise I'm not trolling, but I just don't understand how maxed bag and bank doesn't give you enough space ... unless you are hoarding tons of stuff.
I read the first 6 pages and most of this page, and its still beyond my understanding. This isn't like other games, you don't need 4 stacks of Brown Malt because you might "use it" later. Materials are really easy to get and are in endless supply, there is no need to hoard mountains of mats "for later".
My main crafter is lvl 34, has 47 provisioning, and 15+ in the rest, and all I have is one bank and one bag upgrade. Admittedly, Enchanting can take up a lot of space until you realize most of the runes are garbage but, I really haven't had a space problem. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

The reason is that many/most players do not like to constantly alternate between adventuring and crafting so that they use up their materials gathered in real time. Most prefer to stockpile and then have a crafting day or two, clean it out, level the crafts up, and be done with it. The constant back and forth is not preferred by most players -- use it now or trash it now sucks as a game design. Just sucks.