Sun Shield rework… when?

huskandhunger

Sun Shield

This ability and its morphs are no longer affected by battlespirit.

Radiant Ward - additional effect - Each enemy hit by this ability is now dazed by the bright light causing them to temporarily be unable to use abilities for 3 seconds.

Blazing Shield - this ability no longer returns damage absorbed. Instead it now deals 200 fire damage over 10 seconds, ticking once per second that bypasses spell resistance. This damage is unblockable. This ability scales based on your opponents resistances.

Tyrant_Tim

Fun fact, if you use the skill Sun Shield or any of its morphs after our mysterious Sun Shield nerf, the skill has completely lost its animation.

One can speculate why that is, maybe they are changing the skill completely Update 41, maybe not…

One thing is for certain, leaving us without an animation on our skill for an entire update is kind of insane. The entire reason it’s run is for the aesthetic, as the skill is downright terrible.

Now we can’t even roleplay properly.

Tyrant_Tim

Another update rounding the corner, please let this be the one where Sun Shield has any relevance.

Hotdog_23

Late to the party on this debate. Get rid of the damage component in the blazing shield and make the secondary effect an area root ability or pull ability. Templar tanks need both in-class abilities, and both would be welcome for Templar tanks. My preference would be an area-root ability.

Stay safe

Tyrant_Tim

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Late to the party on this debate. Get rid of the damage component in the blazing shield and make the secondary effect an area root ability or pull ability. Templar tanks need both in-class abilities, and both would be welcome for Templar tanks. My preference would be an area-root ability.

Stay safe

Nice recommendation, I would rather replace Radiant Ward otherwise that skill would start to see even less than the already minimal usage it does.

Having two morphs slated to tanking would mean there would always be a better version than the other, where if Blazing Shield remained a damage focused morph you could use each for different forms of content.

That being said, I love the idea.

Tyrant_Tim

Not even a mention of the fix to Sun Shield’s animation in the patch notes?

Are we gonna pretend that the skill had an animation for the entirety of Update 40?

Jman100582

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Not even a mention of the fix to Sun Shield’s animation in the patch notes?

Are we gonna pretend that the skill had an animation for the entirety of Update 40?

Yes, yes we are

Theist_VII

Notice anything weird about this picture?


This is from a video by MalcolM on what your best bar loadouts would be for tanking in PvP, it’s from two patches ago. There have been no considerable changes to Templar within that time frame.

Anyone see Sun Shield? I don’t.

Billium813

Telos_Tim wrote: »

Notice anything weird about this picture?


This is from a video by MalcolM on what your best bar loadouts would be for tanking in PvP, it’s from two patches ago. There have been no considerable changes to Templar within that time frame.

Anyone see Sun Shield? I don’t.

TBF, what would you suggest swapping out for Blazing Shield (Radiant Ward being the PvP designed morph)? Rune Focus is strong (Major Resolve + Heal + Sustain) and deserves inclusion. Living Dark can be strong (against direct damage, flat heath with a fast proc) and deserves inclusion.

I suppose Honor the Dead seems like the odd one out in my estimation. I get that people like burst heals, but if you're looking for a "Tanky" build, you have two Skills doing double duty on just pure heals. Living Dark could be cut as it's somewhat situational and because the Dawn's Wrath passives just aren't really worth it for being Tanky...

I'd say Extended Ritual deserves consideration, but it is a slow tick, high cost, and only 5 cleanses. You already get Sacred Ground from the MUCH better Rune Focus, so OK. Focused Charge? Well, Focused Charge is more aggro then a "Tank" would probably want, and Lingering Flare is just too strong given the 100% uptime regardless of bar.

Ok, there aren't many other alternatives worth running. So, the question comes down to: What would you have Blazing Shield do to make it supplant Honor the Dead or Living Dark in this scenario?

Theist_VII

Billium813 wrote: »

So, the question comes down to: What would you have Blazing Shield do to make it supplant Honor the Dead or Living Dark in this scenario?

Blazing Shield was designed and named with the intention of being the offense morph so I wouldn’t want to change the skill to work better on a tank, Radiant Ward on the other hand should be the obvious pick over Honor the Dead…

One scales with Health and the other scales with your offensive stats, so why would a skill with offensive scaling be receiving prioritization over one that works off of health?

Living Dark and Rune Focus are the only skills that Templar has with tanking in mind that actually provide something. Living Dark is a flat heal regardless of your offensive stats, Rune Focus gives resources through block.

Radiant Ward needs to cost less, and provide more.

Currently it has a cap of 6 targets nearby, so it will only ever reach a max of 120% shield size of the already halved skill which is not enough if you have 6 targets hammering on you given it’s cost, especially consider that your block mitigation is not applied to it.

Billium813

Telos_Tim wrote: »

Billium813 wrote: »

So, the question comes down to: What would you have Blazing Shield do to make it supplant Honor the Dead or Living Dark in this scenario?

Radiant Ward needs to cost less, and provide more.

Currently it has a cap of 6 targets nearby, so it will only ever reach a max of 120% shield size of the already halved skill which is not enough if you have 6 targets hammering on you given it’s cost, especially consider that your block mitigation is not applied to it.

So, the problem you're gonna have is that you're in PvP and you currently have 6 enemies within 5m of you. What exactly do you expect from Radiant Ward here? This isn't Corrosive Armor. You're not gonna be able to scale this shield big enough to a point where it doesn't just absolutely break PvE. You're not gonna be able to make this skill cheap enough to the point where it doesn't become OP. IMO, there shouldn't be a skill that's gonna keep you alive with 6 PvP enemies hammering on you...

Radiant Ward is PvE by design and function. Blazing Shield is PvP by design. IMO, you're looking for something that shouldn't exist.

Theist_VII

How are you going to say that Radiant Ward is a PvE skill? It does bare minimal over there too. 😂

When was the last time you were in a situation where your Sun Shield saved you and Defensive Posture’s ward wouldn’t have?

As far as PvP, you must not have been in there for quite some time. Any active player can tell you that they’ve seen players keep themselves alive with six people hammering on them, double and triple it and it still appears effortless, and they’re doing it on any class, using two sets and the skill bars listed above, and the only way they’re doing it on Templar is by actively ignoring Sun Shield.

When a skill’s niché is that it builds based upon nearby enemies, that build-up has to be meaningful, and it’s clear as day to anyone who plays the class that it’s not, on either morph.

Billium813

Telos_Tim wrote: »

How are you going to say that Radiant Ward is a PvE skill? It does bare minimal over there too.

When was the last time you were in a situation where your Sun Shield saved you and Defensive Posture’s ward wouldn’t have?

Literally all the time

Radiant Ward - 14k - 30k Shield


Defensive Posture - 14k Shield


Also, Radiant Ward comes with Minor Protection and deals damage to trigger soft taunts. VS, cheaper block? +10% block? Templar already has Sacred Ground.

Plus, Magicka costs are far superior to Stamina ones for Tank. We kinda need that to block... and Ice Staff HA on the backbar for even more shields and Mag resources is standard gameplay. Not to mention Spell Symmetry synergy in a pinch.

Something tells me you don't know how to use the tools given to you.

Telos_Tim wrote: »

As far as PvP, you must not have been in there for quite some time. Any active player can tell you that they’ve seen players keep themselves alive with six people hammering on them, double and triple it and it still appears effortless, and they’re doing it on any class, using two sets and the skill bars listed above, and the only way they’re doing it on Templar is by actively ignoring Sun Shield.

Are you talking about players that can 1vX players? Or Tank bots that just stand there and don't fight back? For the former, that's more about Undeath on Vampire. For the latter, Corrosive Armor DK. They aren't standing there spamming generic PvP Shields.

Also, just because some people are unkillable Tank bots in PvP doesn't mean we should make that matter worse by making changes to enable it more; players are already overly tanky in PvP. It's getting to the point where the only ones getting kills are NB gankers with Merciless Resolve, ball groups running over players with 100 HoTs, or bombers dropping Meteor on newbs that can't hold block

Theist_VII

Billium813 wrote: »

Something tells me you don't know how to use the tools given to you.

What a riot!

14-30k… you’re getting around 16k on bosses, so yes. Defensive Posture would serve you just as well, because if you’re surviving by the difference of 1.5-2k health, you’re eating attacks you shouldn’t be.

Now in another thread, you cited Sun Shield as a strength in add-pulls because of its niché interaction with Void Bash, and that tells me that you’re building for add pulls.

Never in all of my time playing have I ever on any of my tanks, and I have one for every class, ever struggled with an add pull when my groups do the slightest bit of damage.

Do keep pretending Sun Shield is competitive, or even in a decent place, it doesn’t matter to me.

Overwhelmingly people agree the skill is horrible, BOTH morphs, and that must be because you and Smitty are the only intelligent tanks playing ESO. /s

Billium813

Telos_Tim wrote: »

How are you going to say that Radiant Ward is a PvE skill? It does bare minimal over there too.

Telos_Tim wrote: »

14-30k… you’re getting around 16k on bosses, so yes. Defensive Posture would serve you just as well, because if you’re surviving by the difference of 1.5-2k health, you’re eating attacks you shouldn’t be.

Then > Radiant Ward isn't worth being used at all
Now > Radiant Ward is comparable against a single target as Defensive Posture

At least we're getting somewhere. They are comparable shield strengths in single target, but Radiant Ward goes even higher, eclipsing Defensive Posture. What are your issues with Radiant Ward? Are you just gonna ignore that I showed it's a better shield most of the time over Defensive Posture? For me, Radiant Ward is CONSISTENTLY 24k+, even in boss fights. How? Cause Void Bash -> tap Radiant Ward works on bosses. They have adds a vast majority of the time AND Major Maim still applies.

Telos_Tim wrote: »

Now in another thread, you cited Sun Shield as a strength in add-pulls because of its niché interaction with Void Bash, and that tells me that you’re building for add pulls.

Never in all of my time playing have I ever on any of my tanks, and I have one for every class, ever struggled with an add pull when my groups do the slightest bit of damage.

When did I say it was necessary? When did I say I was struggling with add pulls and needed Radiant Ward over Defensive Posture because of add pulls? You do realize that 90% of bosses ALSO contain adds, right? strawman.

Telos_Tim wrote: »

Do keep pretending Sun Shield is competitive, or even in a decent place, it doesn’t matter to me.

Overwhelmingly people agree the skill is horrible, BOTH morphs, and that must be because you and Smitty are the only intelligent tanks playing ESO. /s

I don't think you're giving Radiant Ward a fair shake and you're sticking your head in the sand. I think your fundamental issue with Radiant Ward stems from PvP and it's not a PvP shield. Your arguments are not persuasive, or offer valid criticism, they just attack and insult.

Theist_VII

Billium813 wrote: »

IMO, the only set that I think is crucial to Templar Tank is Void Bash and that's purely based on the synergy with Radiant Ward

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/653954/templar-tank-tormentor-feedback#latest

5th comment, right where you belittle the OP for being upset about the Tormentor change.

I had an insightful chat with Hyperioxes one of the best, if not the best, tank main on ESO, author of…

https://youtu.be/Pf217OBW1Lc?si=BQLbQhcz-dwbXCGx
…about the state of Templar tanking last night and he reaffirmed exactly what I wrote.



Sanity’s Edge is littered with adds, so Radiant Ward, if it was a “great skill” should shine there, and yet there wasn’t a single Templar tank on PC to have cleared Hard Mode for the duration of Update 39.

What you seem to be missing, @Billium813, is that it’s not a discussion about whether the skill is good or bad, it’s an understanding that Sun Shield’s current iterations are horrible, and what changes would we like to see them make for the future.

Billium813

@Telos_Tim

Again, you're confusing multiple issues together into one issue. And you're misunderstanding the metrics you're reading.

Sun Shield isn't the cause of Templar not being BiS for Trials Tanking. You're acting like this all comes down to one Skill, or that if Sun Shield was suddenly super OP that Templar would suddenly become BiS for Tank Trials? Tormentor wasn't some Templar exclusive set that was propping up Templar's weaknesses. It was a cute beginner set that can instantly be replaced by smart Tanking behavior. A slightly bigger class shield isn't gonna do it. A beginner 5p set isn't gonna do it. This is a complex issue that you are way over simplifying. Templar isn't BiS because it's bad, it's cause classes like DK are just way better in DPS and Tank roles. and that isn't because they have bigger or cheaper shields.

Theist_VII

I’m not misunderstanding anything. lol

The values for Sun Shield need to be higher if they are going to retain their current iteration, and if they refuse to increase the values, the skill needs to be revised completely.

Making Templar a better tank, would mean increasing either their group utility, or making their survivability stand out.

If Templar had better survivability, it wouldn’t be one of two tanks that need to build selfish to MT Teleria/Bahsei hard modes.

Ever try either of those with your Templar? 😂

Whereis_Kyno

Glad to see there’s been conversations about this.

Templar lacks defence and easiness to use. Defensive abilities and most passives need buffing - especially related to damage shield and sustain.

Arcanists can hold 1 vs 5 with impervious runeward yet the devs leave sun shield untouched.

Makes no sense. The only time the shield is big enough is when you’re outnumbered 20 to 1… in which case in PvP you are dying instantly.

Theist_VII

Whereis_Kyno wrote: »

Glad to see there’s been conversations about this.

Templar lacks defence and easiness to use. Defensive abilities and most passives need buffing - especially related to damage shield and sustain.

Arcanists can hold 1 vs 5 with impervious runeward yet the devs leave sun shield untouched.

Makes no sense. The only time the shield is big enough is when you’re outnumbered 20 to 1… in which case in PvP you are dying instantly.

Unfortunately, the developers added a cap of 6 enemies to the shield, meaning that you will never benefit from 7 or more people.

Sun Shield is really one of the worst skills in the game and it continues to just sit in Templar’s toolkit unchanged.

Theist_VII

I’m gonna be honest, @Whereis_Kyno, this battle has been fought and we lost. Time and time again I have brought this ability up, and the OP even had a talk with a community manager saying they would forward the thread to the correct part of the team, but absolutely nothing happened from it, other than a nerf to the skill in the form of an AoE cap.

Now you can craft a better Ward on Templar using Scribing, and that is what I would suggest you do.

Sun Shield will never be what it should.

Vahndamme

Many people tried before and all failed. Templar is gone, done. Ugly animations, PvE good dmg but majority of it in execute and thus super boring.. Jabs and BL losing so much power only to see another button to become even more of a one button fest. Just because Arcanists would've been useless if Jabs+BL remained as strong as they were before... (= strong aoe/cleaving damage class that is fairly simple to pick up and play) ... PvP absolute lowest tier possible.. I read a lot of "Templars are a stand your ground type of class" or well should be.. But in PvP if you see a templar you think, "dang free kill over there, lets goooooo".. Tanking, no clue but I see none in endgame play so pretty sure they are bad. Healer, same story.. they used to be good but now .. well "now" .. it's been a couple of patches already hehe, soon more than a dozen I guess?.. Overall Templar is in a horrible spot. Why release new classes if your old classes are total garbage.. Ah yes, to 'reinvent' what the old classes already did well but putting it in a different new coat so you can sell copies. I never understood why ZoS only knows 2 sides, 2 extremes.. either they gut it entirely or either it's totally busted. The Templar PvE DD story is such an easy one, give Jabs + BL (maybe some other abilities) a bit more of their power and tone down J beam to a decent execute spammable but not the type where you only need to press that and be god himself.. Also bring back some class identity to Templars and for christsake fix them passives... Other classes have the strength of 2 or 3 Templar passives in 1 ...

+ Final: revert jabs animation or just FIX it. The Vampire themed yellow shovel ain't doing the trick and not to mention that that is NOT how you wield a spear. It's as bad as Rapid Strikes but somehow nobody cares about that ability... it looks like running around swinging your weapons around like a caveman in slowmotion with some desynced sound. Some indie company could provide better animations honestly... I expect more from a reputable studio...

VinnyGambini

My opinion on templar:

1. Jabs - portion of single target damage should not be mitigated by evasion buffs. Animation change is also welcome.
2. Backlash - this skill should be reworked. Make it increase dmg by 10% every time you deal dmg, up to 200%. This will buff jabplar while nerf vampire spammable, or psijic order spammable plar. Also tooltip could be around 5% higher, just as other burst abilities.
3. Sunsphere - increase to 10%. This is quite obvious to boost indentity.
4. Sun shield - no idea how to rework this skill, ideas are welcome
5. Passives - as above.

As you can see above changes are nothing dramatic, rather fine tuning, to make templar viable again.

Theist_VII

This is also, still a problem.