I do not want Sorcerer buffs.

Bushido2513

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

I have no problem with sorc being better than dk as well

However I would like to see the ceiling of the class be raised in parallel

If that happens I fear it would just become the boring flavor of the month which is what I don't want, not that it wouldn't be somewhat deserved at this point though.

Still this is my own personal thing but I don't like playing PvP and repeatedly fighting my own class which is kind of where dk and Warden got to at the heights of their renewed popularity.

I'd rather all classes just have their own unique draw including sorc.

It was a long while back but I remember when battlegrounds would be full of sorcs and it was just a lot of overload, mages wrath, frag, streak spam from multiple directions. It was fun but lacked diversity to varying degrees.

StaticWave

Bushido2513 wrote: »

It was a long while back but I remember when battlegrounds would be full of sorcs and it was just a lot of overload, mages wrath, frag, streak spam from multiple directions. It was fun but lacked diversity to varying degrees.

I would argue that fighting a bunch of Sorcs buffed to DK level would be worse than fighting a bunch of DKs. At least with DKs you know there is a chance of kiting away since most of them don't really run a gap closer other than pure zerglings. That's not really the case with Sorcs who always have Streak and can lob several Cfrags at you from max range.

Not sure how other people think, but I personally would not want that to happen again.

Bushido2513

StaticWave wrote: »

I would argue that fighting a bunch of Sorcs buffed to DK level would be worse than fighting a bunch of DKs. At least with DKs you know there is a chance of kiting away since most of them don't really run a gap closer other than pure zerglings. That's not really the case with Sorcs who always have Streak and can lob several Cfrags at you from max range.

Not sure how other people think, but I personally would not want that to happen again.

It probably wouldn't be fun but then we'd probably see a meta shift to people using more ranged defense or roll dodging. Dks running wings, wardens running slab, etc

But I guess the highlight is that I don't want to see pvp packed with any flavor of the months other than say Arcanist which will be understandable.

Sorc just needs a tasteful overhaul really.

PhoenixGrey

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

It was a long while back but I remember when battlegrounds would be full of sorcs and it was just a lot of overload, mages wrath, frag, streak spam from multiple directions. It was fun but lacked diversity to varying degrees.

I would argue that fighting a bunch of Sorcs buffed to DK level would be worse than fighting a bunch of DKs. At least with DKs you know there is a chance of kiting away since most of them don't really run a gap closer other than pure zerglings. That's not really the case with Sorcs who always have Streak and can lob several Cfrags at you from max range.

Not sure how other people think, but I personally would not want that to happen again.

There were hard counters to sorcs back then

I had no problem tanking out a whole legion of sorcs in high MMR bgs. All I had to do is run BOL and roll dodge a bit

Nb had cloak
Dk had wings
Warden had shield

The only class which had problem with sorc was Templar. But Templar was always a bottom tier class so I would count that out

As for right now, devs have made it clear that there won’t be further buffs to sorc so you can relax

Bushido2513

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

It was a long while back but I remember when battlegrounds would be full of sorcs and it was just a lot of overload, mages wrath, frag, streak spam from multiple directions. It was fun but lacked diversity to varying degrees.

I would argue that fighting a bunch of Sorcs buffed to DK level would be worse than fighting a bunch of DKs. At least with DKs you know there is a chance of kiting away since most of them don't really run a gap closer other than pure zerglings. That's not really the case with Sorcs who always have Streak and can lob several Cfrags at you from max range.

Not sure how other people think, but I personally would not want that to happen again.

There were hard counters to sorcs back then

I had no problem tanking out a whole legion of sorcs in high MMR bgs. All I had to do is run BOL and roll dodge a bit

Nb had cloak
Dk had wings
Warden had shield

The only class which had problem with sorc was Templar. But Templar was always a bottom tier class so I would count that out

As for right now, devs have made it clear that there won’t be further buffs to sorc so you can relax

Well he did say buffed to dk levels so that would be a different animal. But really back in the day there were variations of sorc that were and weren't easy to deal with. It wasn't always the sorc that targeted you but the ones that targeted you while you were already engaged. Back when implosion was basically ridiculous and such.

It was almost like boxing, it was the frag/wrath you couldn't see that got you

Pelanora

"Sorcerers, on the other hand, have been commenting how they lack access to a robust amount of Major and Minor buffs and debuffs with their class kit, *which we agree with*. While we won’t be adding a ton of access in this update, we’re starting by sweetening the dark deals they make by adding Minor Berserk to Dark Exchange and its morphs, to help reward the risk of activating it and make their spell slinging truly a thing to fear. We’ll also be making their Volatile Familiars a little less volatile by making the stun from the activate only happen once, and sooner to the activation, so it feels more controlled and deliberate while also increasing the chance it applies the Charged status effect, making Minor Vulnerability more reliable to be active"

Emphasis added. So..... they changed their tune?!!! Or do they mean, yes we agree you lack the access..... but suck it up Sorc.

universal_wrath

StaticWave wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

deejayvee wrote: »

Yeah, because the only people who should be able to enjoy playing this game are those who put in the time, effort and dedication, right?

Not saying Warden or some classes didn't need buffs, but ZOS making the game easier and handing out unnecessary buffs is why we have this everlasting issue of class imbalance.

FYI, if ZOS ever went ahead and buffed Sorc, the top end sorcs will dominate other classes. The gap between top end and low/medium end sorcs is THAT big.

Agreed static. However it still doesn't negate the fact sorcerer is lacking. Stam and mag wise. It's not the players fault that they will dominate, for being brought up to par to other classes. I've always found the gap between sorcerer and other classes being huge in terms of low and high end players. You might see an extremely good DK often, or a NB. But very seldom a extremly good sorcerer as the gaps that big. And this is not just in the last year this is being going on for a while.

However I can't pinpoint as to why this is the case. Is sorcerer harder to play/takes more skill ? Or is it simply due to popularity of other classes over sorcerer ? Both ? I can't say for certain. However I can say NB is so easy compared to a sorcerer and DK in its current state is braindead. I've played both. However in the past these classes were not so easy as they are today

Well the way I see it is, sorc has been nerfed substantially over the years, while other classes have been BUFFED. If you were to pitch the current classes against the iteration of sorc that had no cost increase Streak, Frag with CC, Major Protection working on shields and shields taking zero crit dmg, etc, while keeping hybridization, you would quickly see how dominating sorc is.

Imagine a sorc in the current hybridization meta that can streak 10x in a row, has Cfrag that can stun, has BoL because Streak isn’t needed, has Vigor and Harden + Dampen, and 25k+ HP instead of 16k HP due to HP inflation, etc. I don’t think any class can fight that iteration of sorc.

I’ve seen quite a few comments asking for sorc to be given its old glory. I don’t think it’s a good idea at all.

Once upon a time, DK wings and volitle armor to kill everything.

universal_wrath

Brrrofski wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

VixxVexx wrote: »

Talking about shield size, just look at this lmao. Compare the damage shield on hardened armor vs sorc shieds.

Hardened Armor is 16% of Max Health (30.99 x 1.033 / 2 = ~16% HP)
Regen Ward is 17% of Max Health (34.089 / 2 = ~17% HP)
Hardened Ward is 23% of Max Health (44.316 x 1.033 / 2 = ~23% HP)

The 1.033 is a 3.3% skill rank 4 modifier that applies after the health scaling.
Regen morph of sorc shield doesn't have rank modifier.
The /2 is because battlespirit.
This is with new PTS values.
DK skill is like 35% cheaper. (standardization omegalul)

@ZOS_Kevin Can we get some insight/explanation into this obvious disparity between these 2 abilities, DK's armor buff that has a shield as a secondary effect and the sorcerers shield where the shield is the primary effect?

Particularly since the sorcerers shield is capped while only providing common, named minor regen passives and the DK skill being uncapped, grants the major armor buff, a comparable shield value, as well as providing damage return (a unique mechanic) while also being roughly 35% cheaper than the sorcerer ability?

Also, if more of these types of discrepancies need to be pointed out for the team to see just how far the sorcerer has fallen behind the other classes due to the way the game has been changed over the years, I would be more than happy to go through the sorcerers entire kit (or I can just find & link my original thread from a few months ago on this exact subject) and provide many additional direct comparisons where the sorcerers abilities and passives are just objectively worse/outdated than their counterparts from other classes while also not being given any relevant additional effects to make up for this clear discrepancy in power.

To be honest, shields are just way worse than healing anyway.

If I'm on a DK and eat 15k damage, a dragon blood gives me an 8k heal (that's being generous too). So two of them and I'm full health.

On a sorc, I have to cast a ward, cast vigor that gives me like 7k health over time, so I have to keep my ward up to guarantee I get that health back. Then do it again to get to full health.

That's a lot of lost offence time.

The problem is that as dk you get some healing bonuses and damage negations to help you with your healing, what do sorcs get for using heals or shields?

StaticWave

StaticWave wrote: »

deejayvee wrote: »

Yeah, because the only people who should be able to enjoy playing this game are those who put in the time, effort and dedication, right?

Not saying Warden or some classes didn't need buffs, but ZOS making the game easier and handing out unnecessary buffs is why we have this everlasting issue of class imbalance.

FYI, if ZOS ever went ahead and buffed Sorc, the top end sorcs will dominate other classes. The gap between top end and low/medium end sorcs is THAT big.

Stumbled upon this thread while searching for healing threads and damn I predicted it lol. 2 buffs and magsorc is dominating top end PvP

xylena_lazarow

StaticWave wrote: »

Stumbled upon this thread while searching for healing threads and damn I predicted it lol. 2 buffs and magsorc is dominating top end PvP

Kind of incredible how many competitive players were warning everyone about this. A few months earlier.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Healing is supposed to be secondary to damage shields for this style Sorc, and I promise you that you do not want to fight a Sorc that can both stack shields and heal like crazy. The last thing we need is more accidental healing buffs.

Lazarus_Rising

ForumBully wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

An oldie but a goodie:

From the old days when ZoS pretended Dragonknights didn't exist and Templars seemed untouchable and the others didn't exist...the gif needs to be updated to cycle through them all now because players only ask for nerfs, never buffs.

i am asking for necromancer buffs for years now

Cast_El

ForumBully wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

An oldie but a goodie:

From the old days when ZoS pretended Dragonknights didn't exist and Templars seemed untouchable and the others didn't exist...the gif needs to be updated to cycle through them all now because players only ask for nerfs, never buffs.

No. Templar and Necro are asking for buff for years