Templar jabs

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

Grega wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

How many Templar jab threads have I posted in that have mysteriously vanished off the forums, I wonder?

Still surprised that nobody has said anything about it. Not even a "it's staying, get used to it".
Not one whit.

Certain people go on about how much the community complain about stuff, but at the end of the day, this is what happens when people have something they want addressing and are simply ignored.

People have been going on about jabs since U35. I am certain that ZOS could find time in their schedule between then and now to pop onto the forums and give a response.
Even if the answer was not what we wanted, it'd stop people driving each other nuts in the echo chamber.

That is very true actually. When threads are closed, you can still see them but can’t reply anymore. But these particular threads seem to be getting deleted over closed, which bears question “why?” .

I noticed that myself.

Seraphayel wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin Is there absolutely no news on getting a better Jabs animation? Even with the dmg nerfs, there are soooo many Templars refusing to slot Jabs because of how it looks. Are the devs really okay with this?

Honestly, what kind of answer do you expect? It's a no, even if they refuse to tell you. It's been over half a year, this is of no concern for them. So the only thing you can do is get used to the new one because it's obviously going to stay.

Then ZOS should get used to people continuously complaining about the changes they made to jabs animation. The new jabs animation is nonsensical in the extreme.

And ZOS has never commented on this issue directly as you have claimed.

Ya, I have no intention of dropping this issue until ZOS at least comments on it one way or another. This should remain a front page issue until the complaint is dealt with rather than just ignored.

Again, honest question: If they say the new animation is going to stay and they're not going to change it, will you refrain from asking to get the animation changed after they made their statement?

No. Nor will multiple others.

Vulkunne

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

bachpain wrote: »

U35 killed the class identity of the templars. There is no other way to put it. I only use mine for crafting/random normal transmute farms now. #feelsbadman

Yep. I think it killed alot of things lol. Ah well.

Killed a lot of things... and now we Templars can't kill anything 🫠

lmao 10 Points.

Vulkunne

ProudMary wrote: »

Here is a video from a stream team member on the topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgzLN7lNMcI

Yes that's the tutorial video on how to use 'soft jabs', starring Deltia.

UnabashedlyHonest

Vulkunne wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

Here is a video from a stream team member on the topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgzLN7lNMcI

Yes that's the tutorial video on how to use 'soft jabs', starring Deltia.

I thought that was pool noodle jabs.

SilverBride

I still don't understand how a change in an animation has any effect on how well a Templar performs. My Templar kills mobs faster than any of my other characters. I just don't see the issue.

BaalMelqartu

SilverBride wrote: »

I still don't understand how a change in an animation has any effect on how well a Templar performs. My Templar kills mobs faster than any of my other characters. I just don't see the issue.

For me personally, the problem (besides the new shovel animation) is that 2 of the bread and butter abilities for templar were gutted. I have 5 characters I play every day and two of them are templars. Since the changes, I still play my templars but with one exception (a long lasting Empower from Solar Barrage), anything my templar can do, the other classes can do better now. I love playing with builds and I am aware that templars can still pack a punch but they just have fewer good options than the other classes I play. Anyway, just trying to address your statement. I am glad you enjoy the templar as is. I still do too, just not as much as any other class.

Blackbird_V

SilverBride wrote: »

I still don't understand how a change in an animation has any effect on how well a Templar performs. My Templar kills mobs faster than any of my other characters. I just don't see the issue.

Changes to animation has thrown off a lot of players (including myself since I returned 2ish weeks ago after 2 years) with their light attack weaving, resulting in potentially less light attacks. Sure, practice can remedy that easily.

Green bar above icon = Good light attack weaving


Yellow -> Orange -> Red = Bad to abysmal light attack weaving:


In end game content, light attacks are a major source of damage. While you're still light attacking here in the 2nd image, you're also doing it late. Over the course of a boss fight that time adds up to wasted time, example here:



From a non-optimal templar parse just now. Where is says "Total: 16.135 s" that is "wasted time" meaning that 16.135s were non-existent, queued, but never fired or late auto attacks. That time could've been used to get off auto attacks and abilities, increasing damage. The new animation, as mentioned above, has thrown people off.

---

We've also previously discussed other reasons why. The new animation thematically does not fight the Templar, especially as the "spear" model is in fact a Nighthollow staff... Which Templars RP/Lore-wise wouldn't really use. We're accustomed to something that was not broken and working perfectly to something that looks awful, feels bad and just doesn't fit the theme of the class. Also the main animation (other than the main model) looks awful. You're not jabbing anything really, just spading people.

Stx

I was just listening to a podcast with Nefas and Hacktheminotaur. Both of them agree that the jabs animation was poorly done. They mentioned how the spear swings out to the side of your body on the final strike, how they cheaply used a staff motif instead of making a magical spear model, and also how the sound effect doesn’t match the animation anymore lol.

maxjapank

PSA. I recently learned, after many years, that you can ignore forum posters. So just a word of advice, if someone doesn’t have any valuable input and is more interested in drama , then you can ignore said poster and never read what they say.

The_Titan_Tim

maxjapank wrote: »

PSA. I recently learned, after many years, that you can ignore forum posters. So just a word of advice, if someone doesn’t have any valuable input and is more interested in drama , then you can ignore said poster and never read what they say.

Define valuable input. If someone is in opposition of a change you’re interested in, it is proper etiquette to hear what they have to say given it’s a “discussion.”

The ignore tool is meant to be used if someone is harassing you, or consistently posting unrelated things to the topic, not as a means to create an echo chamber. There are only a limited number of people you can have on your forum ignore list after all.

I don’t agree that the damage needs to be touched on Jabs, even though I agree that the animation should be looked into, I highly doubt they will do anything meaningful to it, other than simply changing the staff.

Forums like this make me wonder though, of all the problem areas in the game right, to see people hyper-focusing on this, I find it honestly confusing, as there is zero chance the team have not seen any of these Jab threads, while consistently ignoring them.

At what point are people just complaining to complain? Because given the lack of a response to this, it’s easy to create a pattern. If the first thread got deleted, and the second thread did aswell, would it shock anyone if this one did too?

SilverBride

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

The ignore tool is meant to be used if someone is harassing you, or consistently posting unrelated things to the topic...

The ignore tool is meant to be used for whatever reason the poster wishes to use it. There are a lot of reasons a poster may not want to see posts by certain others, but they don't have to justify their reasons.

The_Titan_Tim

SilverBride wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

The ignore tool is meant to be used if someone is harassing you, or consistently posting unrelated things to the topic...

The ignore tool is meant to be used for whatever reason the poster wishes to use it. There are a lot of reasons a poster may not want to see posts by certain others, but they don't have to justify their reasons.

If someone plans on ignoring everyone that disagrees with them, what happens when they run out of people that fit on their list? The reasons I listed were only a few of the limitless reasons someone might have, just because I didn’t explicitly add them to the list, doesn’t mean I’m discrediting them. The specific way that was mentioned, was not the way that system was intended, otherwise there would be a limitless number of ignorable players.

You’re absolutely right though, feel free to ignore someone because they prefer the color red over the color blue, or because they bring up quality points that need to be considered in the name of communication and understanding, otherwise a Discussion oriented forum site becomes a Speech delivery platform.

If you believe in the importance of discussion, you’re in the right place. If the idea of people disagreeing with them, offends them, they are in the wrong place.

That’s as clean cut as it gets.
(Sorry for all the edits, my iPhone is going crazy.)

SilverBride

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

The ignore tool is meant to be used if someone is harassing you, or consistently posting unrelated things to the topic...

The ignore tool is meant to be used for whatever reason the poster wishes to use it. There are a lot of reasons a poster may not want to see posts by certain others, but they don't have to justify their reasons.

If someone plans on ignoring everyone that disagrees with them, what happens when they run out of people that fit on their list? The reasons I listed were only a few of the limitless reasons someone might have, just because I didn’t explicitly add them to the list, doesn’t mean I’m discrediting them. The specific way that was mentioned, was not the way that system was intended, otherwise there would be a limitless number of ignorable players.

You’re absolutely right though, feel free to ignore someone because they prefer the color red over the color blue, or because they bring up quality points that need to be considered in the name of communication and understanding, otherwise a Discussion oriented forum site becomes a Speech delivery platform.

If you believe in the importance of discussion, you’re in the right place. If the idea of people disagreeing with them, offends them, they are in the wrong place.

That’s as clean cut as it gets.
(Sorry for all the edits, my iPhone is going crazy.)

I never said anything about anyone ignoring posters that disagree with them. I was just pointing out that there are many reasons someone may ignore another poster, and that is their prerogative.

The_Titan_Tim

SilverBride wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

The ignore tool is meant to be used if someone is harassing you, or consistently posting unrelated things to the topic...

The ignore tool is meant to be used for whatever reason the poster wishes to use it. There are a lot of reasons a poster may not want to see posts by certain others, but they don't have to justify their reasons.

If someone plans on ignoring everyone that disagrees with them, what happens when they run out of people that fit on their list? The reasons I listed were only a few of the limitless reasons someone might have, just because I didn’t explicitly add them to the list, doesn’t mean I’m discrediting them. The specific way that was mentioned, was not the way that system was intended, otherwise there would be a limitless number of ignorable players.

You’re absolutely right though, feel free to ignore someone because they prefer the color red over the color blue, or because they bring up quality points that need to be considered in the name of communication and understanding, otherwise a Discussion oriented forum site becomes a Speech delivery platform.

If you believe in the importance of discussion, you’re in the right place. If the idea of people disagreeing with them, offends them, they are in the wrong place.

That’s as clean cut as it gets.
(Sorry for all the edits, my iPhone is going crazy.)

I never said anything about anyone ignoring posters that disagree with them. I was just pointing out that there are many reasons someone may ignore another poster, and that is their prerogative.

Why though, and I mean that with all due respect, I don’t get how that contributes to anything I stated. Doesn’t it seem kind of redundant? It’s like saying the sky is blue, knowing that water reflects the sky, you would kind of insinuate that water generally appears blue, right?

Simply adding a few of the reasons someone might have to use the system, does not exclude other avenues, it’s not a zero-sum discussion.

Back to the topic though, wouldn’t this thread be a lot more constructive as a Poll with these following options…

• Jabs are fine.
• Jabs need an animation overhaul.
• Jabs need a damage buff.
• Jabs need an animation overhaul and a damage buff.

Because it would be much easier to gauge the opinions of people on this topic given visible results.

Jaraal

Stx wrote: »

I was just listening to a podcast with Nefas and Hacktheminotaur. Both of them agree that the jabs animation was poorly done. They mentioned how the spear swings out to the side of your body on the final strike, how they cheaply used a staff motif instead of making a magical spear model, and also how the sound effect doesn’t match the animation anymore lol.

It seems rather curious that ZOS appears to be ok with a commonly perceived degradation of their lore and artistic quality in situations like these. It does make one wonder if the recent changes to their QA department has any correlation. And continued silence could easily be interpreted as indifference.

A little communication would go a long ways towards understanding in this matter.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

We'll just have to keep asking for some feedback from the devs. Some sort of acknowledgment.

Stx

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

The ignore tool is meant to be used if someone is harassing you, or consistently posting unrelated things to the topic...

The ignore tool is meant to be used for whatever reason the poster wishes to use it. There are a lot of reasons a poster may not want to see posts by certain others, but they don't have to justify their reasons.

If someone plans on ignoring everyone that disagrees with them, what happens when they run out of people that fit on their list? The reasons I listed were only a few of the limitless reasons someone might have, just because I didn’t explicitly add them to the list, doesn’t mean I’m discrediting them. The specific way that was mentioned, was not the way that system was intended, otherwise there would be a limitless number of ignorable players.

You’re absolutely right though, feel free to ignore someone because they prefer the color red over the color blue, or because they bring up quality points that need to be considered in the name of communication and understanding, otherwise a Discussion oriented forum site becomes a Speech delivery platform.

If you believe in the importance of discussion, you’re in the right place. If the idea of people disagreeing with them, offends them, they are in the wrong place.

That’s as clean cut as it gets.
(Sorry for all the edits, my iPhone is going crazy.)

I never said anything about anyone ignoring posters that disagree with them. I was just pointing out that there are many reasons someone may ignore another poster, and that is their prerogative.

Why though, and I mean that with all due respect, I don’t get how that contributes to anything I stated. Doesn’t it seem kind of redundant? It’s like saying the sky is blue, knowing that water reflects the sky, you would kind of insinuate that water generally appears blue, right?

Simply adding a few of the reasons someone might have to use the system, does not exclude other avenues, it’s not a zero-sum discussion.

Back to the topic though, wouldn’t this thread be a lot more constructive as a Poll with these following options…

• Jabs are fine.
• Jabs need an animation overhaul.
• Jabs need a damage buff.
• Jabs need an animation overhaul and a damage buff.

Because it would be much easier to gauge the opinions of people on this topic given visible results.

There were plenty of polls taken when the changes were being made. The large majority were against them.

The_Titan_Tim

Stx wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

The ignore tool is meant to be used if someone is harassing you, or consistently posting unrelated things to the topic...

The ignore tool is meant to be used for whatever reason the poster wishes to use it. There are a lot of reasons a poster may not want to see posts by certain others, but they don't have to justify their reasons.

If someone plans on ignoring everyone that disagrees with them, what happens when they run out of people that fit on their list? The reasons I listed were only a few of the limitless reasons someone might have, just because I didn’t explicitly add them to the list, doesn’t mean I’m discrediting them. The specific way that was mentioned, was not the way that system was intended, otherwise there would be a limitless number of ignorable players.

You’re absolutely right though, feel free to ignore someone because they prefer the color red over the color blue, or because they bring up quality points that need to be considered in the name of communication and understanding, otherwise a Discussion oriented forum site becomes a Speech delivery platform.

If you believe in the importance of discussion, you’re in the right place. If the idea of people disagreeing with them, offends them, they are in the wrong place.

That’s as clean cut as it gets.
(Sorry for all the edits, my iPhone is going crazy.)

I never said anything about anyone ignoring posters that disagree with them. I was just pointing out that there are many reasons someone may ignore another poster, and that is their prerogative.

Why though, and I mean that with all due respect, I don’t get how that contributes to anything I stated. Doesn’t it seem kind of redundant? It’s like saying the sky is blue, knowing that water reflects the sky, you would kind of insinuate that water generally appears blue, right?

Simply adding a few of the reasons someone might have to use the system, does not exclude other avenues, it’s not a zero-sum discussion.

Back to the topic though, wouldn’t this thread be a lot more constructive as a Poll with these following options…

• Jabs are fine.
• Jabs need an animation overhaul.
• Jabs need a damage buff.
• Jabs need an animation overhaul and a damage buff.

Because it would be much easier to gauge the opinions of people on this topic given visible results.

There were plenty of polls taken when the changes were being made. The large majority were against them.

Sure, having general threads with no sense or direction, with zero statistic data for ZOS to work with, provides nothing constructive.

In all fairness, even with a poll, slated 90% buff jabs and rework animation, it’s extremely unlikely the devs would reply, still, but at least viewers could see that.

ZOS_Volpe

Hi there,

We have removed some unnecessary back and forth that was disruptive. Please ensure you are treating others with respect on the forums even when they have views that differ from your own. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding.

Grega

@ZOS_Volpe thank you!

Guys, in case anyone missed it, this week ZOS finally gave official response in a lengthy Templars jabs thread in PTS section.

They acknowledged the present Templar issues (and yes - I know there a a few needles in a haystack that sees it a non-issue - so please now that ZOS acknowledged just give it a rest a bit) and the dev team was forwarded all the pain points.

They did state that it was decided to not tackle Templar at least till next patch after this one, so min 3 months from now.

TechMaybeHic

I am assuming some posters are not married and do not realize that telling someone to "give it a rest" or "get over it" or "calm down" tends to just rile people up more.

Stx

Grega wrote: »

@ZOS_Volpe thank you!

Guys, in case anyone missed it, this week ZOS finally gave official response in a lengthy Templars jabs thread in PTS section.

They acknowledged the present Templar issues (and yes - I know there a a few needles in a haystack that sees it a non-issue - so please now that ZOS acknowledged just give it a rest a bit) and the dev team was forwarded all the pain points.

They did state that it was decided to not tackle Templar at least till next patch after this one, so min 3 months from now.

What response are you referring to? I haven’t seen them acknowledge the issues with jabs in any posts. They did give a generalized message about forwarding Templar concerns but that doesn’t really tell us much.

The_Titan_Tim

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I am assuming some posters are not married and do not realize that telling someone to "give it a rest" or "get over it" or "calm down" tends to just rile people up more.

Being riled up isn’t a problem as having passion is generally regarded as a great thing.

If people could direct their ire towards things that are actionable, instead of just venting, that would be extremely helpful. Because right now, Templars are getting skipped over as DDs, Healers, and Tanks in fully composed trial groups.

There are better options for everything, the animation and damage for Jabs were recently changed, so it’s extremely unlikely we’ll see another change to it any time soon, while the rest of our kit languishes.

I have already brought the point up to ZOS on the PTS thread, it just gets buried by nonsense regarding Sorcerer, every time.

TechMaybeHic

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I am assuming some posters are not married and do not realize that telling someone to "give it a rest" or "get over it" or "calm down" tends to just rile people up more.

Being riled up isn’t a problem as having passion is generally regarded as a great thing.

If people could direct their ire towards things that are actionable, instead of just venting, that would be extremely helpful. Because right now, Templars are getting skipped over as DDs, Healers, and Tanks in fully composed trial groups.

There are better options for everything, the animation and damage for Jabs were recently changed, so it’s extremely unlikely we’ll see another change to it any time soon, while the rest of our kit languishes.

I have already brought the point up to ZOS on the PTS thread, it just gets buried by nonsense regarding Sorcerer, every time.

I won't say you're wrong about what's more needed; but what's important to someone personally never is eased by telling them it's not as important as something else. You're trying to argue merits vs feeling

Vulkunne

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

bachpain wrote: »

U35 killed the class identity of the templars. There is no other way to put it. I only use mine for crafting/random normal transmute farms now. #feelsbadman

Yep. I think it killed alot of things lol. Ah well.

Killed a lot of things... and now we Templars can't kill anything 🫠

lmao 10 Points.

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

Here is a video from a stream team member on the topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgzLN7lNMcI

Yes that's the tutorial video on how to use 'soft jabs', starring Deltia.

I thought that was pool noodle jabs.

So if you notice Deltia is actually weaving his light and heavy attacks in with noodler attacks. There's also this sweeping motion going on from right to left that helps relax the shoulders while allowing the noodler to do some of the thrusting work. After carefully reviewing his tutorial I now feel safer and more confident with using this new jabs.

Grega

Stx wrote: »

Grega wrote: »

@ZOS_Volpe thank you!

Guys, in case anyone missed it, this week ZOS finally gave official response in a lengthy Templars jabs thread in PTS section.

They acknowledged the present Templar issues (and yes - I know there a a few needles in a haystack that sees it a non-issue - so please now that ZOS acknowledged just give it a rest a bit) and the dev team was forwarded all the pain points.

They did state that it was decided to not tackle Templar at least till next patch after this one, so min 3 months from now.

What response are you referring to? I haven’t seen them acknowledge the issues with jabs in any posts. They did give a generalized message about forwarding Templar concerns but that doesn’t really tell us much.

Tbh that’s what I was referring to I know it’s not much, but at this point, I think it’s as much as we’ll get 🫤 unfortunately

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

Grega wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

Grega wrote: »

@ZOS_Volpe thank you!

Guys, in case anyone missed it, this week ZOS finally gave official response in a lengthy Templars jabs thread in PTS section.

They acknowledged the present Templar issues (and yes - I know there a a few needles in a haystack that sees it a non-issue - so please now that ZOS acknowledged just give it a rest a bit) and the dev team was forwarded all the pain points.

They did state that it was decided to not tackle Templar at least till next patch after this one, so min 3 months from now.

What response are you referring to? I haven’t seen them acknowledge the issues with jabs in any posts. They did give a generalized message about forwarding Templar concerns but that doesn’t really tell us much.

Tbh that’s what I was referring to I know it’s not much, but at this point, I think it’s as much as we’ll get 🫤 unfortunately

I hope not...

Cast_El

Zos Kevin made an answer in a pts discussion. Devs don't understand why templar are underperforming in pvp. We talk about damage and snare jab nerf, power of the light nerf.
Then a new answer has been made , something like: "we are aware you are mad and we are meeting with the dev team" then nothing. I think they won't change jab animation back and they may be change something but it will U38 not U37

Kalle_Demos

Cast_El wrote: »

Zos Kevin made an answer in a pts discussion. Devs don't understand why templar are underperforming in pvp. We talk about damage and snare jab nerf, power of the light nerf.
Then a new answer has been made , something like: "we are aware you are mad and we are meeting with the dev team" then nothing. I think they won't change jab animation back and they may be change something but it will U38 not U37

I think we can get it back. The Devs have been shamed into backtracking before and that they acknowledge the negative sentiment of their paying customers is a first step. Keep the pressure on. This situation is ridiculous and we all know it.

Stx

I doubt they would reimplement the old animation at this point. What I really want and hope they will do soon is make a proper new animation. A better quality animation that actually looks good.