Templar jabs

Grega

LukosCreyden wrote: »

How many Templar jab threads have I posted in that have mysteriously vanished off the forums, I wonder?

Still surprised that nobody has said anything about it. Not even a "it's staying, get used to it".
Not one whit.

Certain people go on about how much the community complain about stuff, but at the end of the day, this is what happens when people have something they want addressing and are simply ignored.

People have been going on about jabs since U35. I am certain that ZOS could find time in their schedule between then and now to pop onto the forums and give a response.
Even if the answer was not what we wanted, it'd stop people driving each other nuts in the echo chamber.

That is very true actually. When threads are closed, you can still see them but can’t reply anymore. But these particular threads seem to be getting deleted over closed, which bears question “why?” .

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

Grega wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

How many Templar jab threads have I posted in that have mysteriously vanished off the forums, I wonder?

Still surprised that nobody has said anything about it. Not even a "it's staying, get used to it".
Not one whit.

Certain people go on about how much the community complain about stuff, but at the end of the day, this is what happens when people have something they want addressing and are simply ignored.

People have been going on about jabs since U35. I am certain that ZOS could find time in their schedule between then and now to pop onto the forums and give a response.
Even if the answer was not what we wanted, it'd stop people driving each other nuts in the echo chamber.

That is very true actually. When threads are closed, you can still see them but can’t reply anymore. But these particular threads seem to be getting deleted over closed, which bears question “why?” .

I noticed that myself.

Grega

Anyone have any hopes for any Templar (jabs) updates tomorrow? Pts week 4 is posting

SilverBride

I recently rolled a Templar so I don't have any experience with the old animation. But I don't see what's wrong with the new one and it's certainly not hurting my combat. My Templar just got level 50 and all her skills are not even maxed yet, but she is one of my more powerful characters.

Grega

SilverBride wrote: »

I recently rolled a Templar so I don't have any experience with the old animation. But I don't see what's wrong with the new one and it's certainly not hurting my combat. My Templar just got level 50 and all her skills are not even maxed yet, but she is one of my more powerful characters.

Since you didn’t experience old animation, you dont have a reason to have a problem with new animation, unless you were attempting to RP with your Templar. Then you’d have a problem since the design fights with Templar’s LORE.

In terms of damage, (which I think we briefly discussed a while back 😊), since you don’t min-max end game, you won’t have any problems either. - but if you did min max - you’d have to pick all non Templar skills on stamplar and and in magplar all non Templar skills minus RO. At which point, you are avoiding class skills - which is negative for class identity. - again, outside of end game - none of this matters. You can jab, or better yet … DIG AWAY and have no issues whatsoever 😊

maxjapank

@ZOS_Kevin Is there absolutely no news on getting a better Jabs animation? Even with the dmg nerfs, there are soooo many Templars refusing to slot Jabs because of how it looks. Are the devs really okay with this?

Grega

maxjapank wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin Is there absolutely no news on getting a better Jabs animation? Even with the dmg nerfs, there are soooo many Templars refusing to slot Jabs because of how it looks. Are the devs really okay with this?

^this. @ZOS_Kevin Also, if reusing existing asset is necessity, there are so many other spear models already in the game that can be used and would be more appropriate to Templar lore and animation design changed so you are “jabbing” rather than “digging”.

Seraphayel

maxjapank wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin Is there absolutely no news on getting a better Jabs animation? Even with the dmg nerfs, there are soooo many Templars refusing to slot Jabs because of how it looks. Are the devs really okay with this?

Honestly, what kind of answer do you expect? It's a no, even if they refuse to tell you. It's been over half a year, this is of no concern for them. So the only thing you can do is get used to the new one because it's obviously going to stay.

maxjapank

Seraphayel wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin Is there absolutely no news on getting a better Jabs animation? Even with the dmg nerfs, there are soooo many Templars refusing to slot Jabs because of how it looks. Are the devs really okay with this?

Honestly, what kind of answer do you expect? It's a no, even if they refuse to tell you. It's been over half a year, this is of no concern for them. So the only thing you can do is get used to the new one because it's obviously going to stay.

You do not speak for them. So until I get a response, I’ll likely keep asking. But I’m still not sure why you continue posting in this thread as you like the new animation. When I asked about “drama” I think I hit the nail squarely on the head.

The_Titan_Tim

maxjapank wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin Is there absolutely no news on getting a better Jabs animation? Even with the dmg nerfs, there are soooo many Templars refusing to slot Jabs because of how it looks. Are the devs really okay with this?

Honestly, what kind of answer do you expect? It's a no, even if they refuse to tell you. It's been over half a year, this is of no concern for them. So the only thing you can do is get used to the new one because it's obviously going to stay.

You do not speak for them. So until I get a response, I’ll likely keep asking. But I’m still not sure why you continue posting in this thread as you like the new animation. When I asked about “drama” I think I hit the nail squarely on the head.

Your best hope for a new animation, would be a bridged middle ground. There’s zero chance they will backtrack, but if enough people could settle on a different staff design, ZOS might consider it, while keeping the same actions in the animation.

My hats in for Imperial Champion.

maxjapank

@The_Titan_Tim Perhaps..I mean right now, there’s no hope for anything for Templars. We’ll have been stuck in a rut for a year after this next update comes out. Basically, roll a DK, the favored child. I’ll likely shelve my Templars. Pity. My main, the toon I first completed silver and gold on. Perhaps, I’ll level an Arcanist. But man, what a sad end.

Seraphayel

maxjapank wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin Is there absolutely no news on getting a better Jabs animation? Even with the dmg nerfs, there are soooo many Templars refusing to slot Jabs because of how it looks. Are the devs really okay with this?

Honestly, what kind of answer do you expect? It's a no, even if they refuse to tell you. It's been over half a year, this is of no concern for them. So the only thing you can do is get used to the new one because it's obviously going to stay.

You do not speak for them. So until I get a response, I’ll likely keep asking. But I’m still not sure why you continue posting in this thread as you like the new animation. When I asked about “drama” I think I hit the nail squarely on the head.

No idea why I am creating drama when it's you handful of guys asking the same question each and every day - you seem to be unable to move on from this topic, it's not me. This is basically the first thread about this topic where I'm participating and there seem to have been dozens before that got closed and removed without my interaction - so I really don't think I am the problem here.

They gave you an answer to your question by not giving an answer at all. And that answer, even if they didn't explicitly say so, is a no, as I said above. Read between the lines instead of insisting to get an answer you'll most likely never get.

Seraphayel

By the way, another answer regarding Templar in U37 in general is deep down in a thread in the PTS section and can easily be missed, but might be of interest:

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

Respectfully, @ZOS_Kevin, you asked @Cloudrest for specific examples relating to areas where Templars were underperforming and in that other thread, I linked to a thread I posted that now has over 7000 views and on the first page links to a myriad of threads expressing many different areas that the class is under preforming.

Like I get that you're the messenger, but what was the point of giving all this feedback for literally nothing to happen to even address the concerns? Are we just supposed to not play the game or something?

Hey @Dekrypted, again totally understand the frustration. We have noted Templar concerns to the team and they are aware of them. As we noted before, while no changes are coming in U37. What we should have also noted is that it doesn't mean there isn't room for future changes or improvement. We understand that doesn't help in the immediate, but we just want to highlight that the door is not closed here. We will continue to discuss and share player sentiment with the combat team, including the resources and points you sent. I have them bookmarked as reference points every time we having a class conversation.

Source: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7817799/#Comment_7817799

Grega

Seraphayel wrote: »

By the way, another answer regarding Templar in U37 in general is deep down in a thread in the PTS section and can easily be missed, but might be of interest:

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

Respectfully, @ZOS_Kevin, you asked @Cloudrest for specific examples relating to areas where Templars were underperforming and in that other thread, I linked to a thread I posted that now has over 7000 views and on the first page links to a myriad of threads expressing many different areas that the class is under preforming.

Like I get that you're the messenger, but what was the point of giving all this feedback for literally nothing to happen to even address the concerns? Are we just supposed to not play the game or something?

Hey @Dekrypted, again totally understand the frustration. We have noted Templar concerns to the team and they are aware of them. As we noted before, while no changes are coming in U37. What we should have also noted is that it doesn't mean there isn't room for future changes or improvement. We understand that doesn't help in the immediate, but we just want to highlight that the door is not closed here. We will continue to discuss and share player sentiment with the combat team, including the resources and points you sent. I have them bookmarked as reference points every time we having a class conversation.

Source: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7817799/#Comment_7817799

Thanks for providing this link. I did totally miss his response. This is actually nice, as it is as far as I’ve seen first and only acknowledgment of Templar issues

SaffronCitrusflower

Seraphayel wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin Is there absolutely no news on getting a better Jabs animation? Even with the dmg nerfs, there are soooo many Templars refusing to slot Jabs because of how it looks. Are the devs really okay with this?

Honestly, what kind of answer do you expect? It's a no, even if they refuse to tell you. It's been over half a year, this is of no concern for them. So the only thing you can do is get used to the new one because it's obviously going to stay.

Then ZOS should get used to people continuously complaining about the changes they made to jabs animation. The new jabs animation is nonsensical in the extreme.

And ZOS has never commented on this issue directly as you have claimed.

Stx

That response is good to have, but I would still want some acknowledgment about jabs specifically. He went into more detail about sorcerers, so I don’t think it’s too much to ask to keep asking for some communication on jabs.

Somber97866

I do hate the new animation but I ain't never dropping my magplar, he's my 4 man dps god, love it!

Seraphayel

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin Is there absolutely no news on getting a better Jabs animation? Even with the dmg nerfs, there are soooo many Templars refusing to slot Jabs because of how it looks. Are the devs really okay with this?

Honestly, what kind of answer do you expect? It's a no, even if they refuse to tell you. It's been over half a year, this is of no concern for them. So the only thing you can do is get used to the new one because it's obviously going to stay.

Then ZOS should get used to people continuously complaining about the changes they made to jabs animation. The new jabs animation is nonsensical in the extreme.

And ZOS has never commented on this issue directly as you have claimed.

I‘m not sure you understood what I wrote there. Yes, ZOS never commented on this (I refuse to call it an issue, because it isn’t) and that’s basically what I said - their non-communication is their way of telling you “it’s staying as it is and there’s nothing going to change in regards of the animation“ - they rate this issue as so irrelevant that they simply don’t talk about it - that’s why I said read between the lines. Not saying anything is saying everything about their stance (aka they don’t care and won’t change it).

I mean your entire comment doesn’t make any sense as a reply to my comment as it’s basically reversed - you commented on something that I already answered in the post you quoted.

Jaraal

maxjapank wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin Is there absolutely no news on getting a better Jabs animation? Even with the dmg nerfs, there are soooo many Templars refusing to slot Jabs because of how it looks. Are the devs really okay with this?

Honestly, what kind of answer do you expect? It's a no, even if they refuse to tell you. It's been over half a year, this is of no concern for them. So the only thing you can do is get used to the new one because it's obviously going to stay.

You do not speak for them. So until I get a response, I’ll likely keep asking. But I’m still not sure why you continue posting in this thread as you like the new animation. When I asked about “drama” I think I hit the nail squarely on the head.

He’s helping to keep the topic alive and on the front page, so there’s that.

maxjapank

Jaraal wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin Is there absolutely no news on getting a better Jabs animation? Even with the dmg nerfs, there are soooo many Templars refusing to slot Jabs because of how it looks. Are the devs really okay with this?

Honestly, what kind of answer do you expect? It's a no, even if they refuse to tell you. It's been over half a year, this is of no concern for them. So the only thing you can do is get used to the new one because it's obviously going to stay.

You do not speak for them. So until I get a response, I’ll likely keep asking. But I’m still not sure why you continue posting in this thread as you like the new animation. When I asked about “drama” I think I hit the nail squarely on the head.

He’s helping to keep the topic alive and on the front page, so there’s that.

True that

The_Titan_Tim

What about us Templar mains from the beginning that have been absolutely stuck on one spammable for years?

I’m going to be completely honest here, ever since jabs got nerfed, I have never enjoyed Templar more. It’s so great to finally get away from jabbing people. Before, it was ESSENTIAL to every build you played offensively, now it’s a choice between Single-Target burst damage, or spread out AoE.

Asking for an increase to it’s damage is never going to result in anything without a take, do we sacrifice the snare or it’s AoE functionality? Maybe it’s major buff/heal or perhaps it’s connection to Minor Protection every time you activate it?

If you want to have a constructive conversation, you have to view the whole picture, animations aside.

The_Titan_Tim

Anyone with Templar’s actual interests in mind, would be discussing any of these things…

• Restoring Aura provides a named buff instead of a unique one.
• Solar Disturbance is absolutely useless after the nerf to Maim.
• Blazing Shield has been horrible ever since Battle Spirit buried it.
• Vampire’s Bane does nowhere near enough damage after the DoT changes to warrant a slot.
• Solar Flare has two morphs underperforming at doing each of their designed roles especially Dark Flare after the nerf to Defile.
• Breath of Life is completely in the gutter, being arguably one of the worst burst heals in the game.

But by all means, continue to harp on the one ability that is actually performing the way it was designed while our house is burning down.

maxjapank

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Anyone with Templar’s actual interests in mind, would be discussing any of these things…

• Restoring Aura provides a named buff instead of a unique one.
• Solar Disturbance is absolutely useless after the nerf to Maim.
• Blazing Shield has been horrible ever since Battle Spirit buried it.
• Vampire’s Bane does nowhere near enough damage after the DoT changes to warrant a slot.
• Solar Flare has two morphs underperforming at doing each of their designed roles especially Dark Flare after the nerf to Defile.
• Breath of Life is completely in the gutter, being arguably one of the worst burst heals in the game.

But by all means, continue to harp on the one ability that is actually performing the way it was designed while our house is burning down.

Many of us have been talking about those things. I know I have. So please don't assume that those of us who wish to bring about a better animation along with a stronger jabs are ignoring the entire kit. For some, it isn't even about the potency of jabs. It is just the animation.

Look, I am happy for Templars to not be stuck in one play style. And if so, then jabs needs to be brought up a bit more so that using it is an option, too.

The_Titan_Tim

maxjapank wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Anyone with Templar’s actual interests in mind, would be discussing any of these things…

• Restoring Aura provides a named buff instead of a unique one.
• Solar Disturbance is absolutely useless after the nerf to Maim.
• Blazing Shield has been horrible ever since Battle Spirit buried it.
• Vampire’s Bane does nowhere near enough damage after the DoT changes to warrant a slot.
• Solar Flare has two morphs underperforming at doing each of their designed roles especially Dark Flare after the nerf to Defile.
• Breath of Life is completely in the gutter, being arguably one of the worst burst heals in the game.

But by all means, continue to harp on the one ability that is actually performing the way it was designed while our house is burning down.

Many of us have been talking about those things. I know I have. So please don't assume that those of us who wish to bring about a better animation along with a stronger jabs are ignoring the entire kit. For some, it isn't even about the potency of jabs. It is just the animation.

Look, I am happy for Templars to not be stuck in one play style. And if so, then jabs needs to be brought up a bit more so that using it is an option, too.

How is using jabs not an option?

Jabs isn’t competitive to Uppercut on single targets which makes sense given that it’s an AoE. It’s not an assumption, for every Jab thread, it furthers a dead-end discussion about what isn’t actually wrong with the class, while I have yet to see one meaningful Discussion titled, “Radiant Aura?” or “Blazing Shield?”

Biting Jabs and Puncturing Sweep never should have been competitive with single target abilities while focusing a single target.

I can agree that the Staff animation needs a rework, as I mentioned earlier in the thread. But that’s the extent of the work that needs to be done on this, if everyone agreed to one solid point, instead of dividing attention three different ways, it would be actionable.

People are too divided though, talks around this are generally focused on these three points…

Animation Reversion

ZOS would never blatantly disrespect their art team by telling them to revert their work.

New Staff

This change is unlikely, but more approachable as this says to their team, we liked what you did, but we want to make one minor tweak.

Puncturing Strikes Lacks ST Damage

Unless we are willing to sacrifice some of the auxiliary effects associated with the ability, it will not receive any additional damage.

Out of all of those three points, the second one is the most realistic, but is still a stretch.

maxjapank

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

while I have yet to see one meaningful Discussion titled, “Radiant Aura?” or “Blazing Shield?”

You have every ability to create a new thread about Templar skills and balance. We did use to have one. Was something like 50 pages long. It has since disappeared. But by all means, do so. But as this thread is titled Templar Jabs, you should try to keep the discussion on this topic.

The_Titan_Tim

maxjapank wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

while I have yet to see one meaningful Discussion titled, “Radiant Aura?” or “Blazing Shield?”

You have every ability to create a new thread about Templar skills and balance. We did use to have one. Was something like 50 pages long. It has since disappeared. But by all means, do so. But as this thread is titled Templar Jabs, you should try to keep the discussion on this topic.

Oh it’s on topic, I’m discussing the overall detriment that complaints regarding Jabs is having to Templar as a whole, as it detracts from the actual problems the class has.

WrathOfInnos

IMO jabs damage is fine, it is nice to have options. The 0.8s duration is much better in a rotation, but the animation is still too long and clunky, hiding your light attack weave and making it unintuitive to use. The spear motif chosen is not ideal, but that should be a 30s fix for any programmer. I wouldn't mind the spear of bitter mercy style, or something simple like High Elf Staff 1.

PotL/Purifying Light are significantly underpowered for a single target delayed burst with a 6s wait. Vamp Bane is pretty bad as well, only dealing about 2% of total DPS.

TechMaybeHic

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Anyone with Templar’s actual interests in mind, would be discussing any of these things…

• Restoring Aura provides a named buff instead of a unique one.
• Solar Disturbance is absolutely useless after the nerf to Maim.
• Blazing Shield has been horrible ever since Battle Spirit buried it.
• Vampire’s Bane does nowhere near enough damage after the DoT changes to warrant a slot.
• Solar Flare has two morphs underperforming at doing each of their designed roles especially Dark Flare after the nerf to Defile.
• Breath of Life is completely in the gutter, being arguably one of the worst burst heals in the game.

But by all means, continue to harp on the one ability that is actually performing the way it was designed while our house is burning down.

A lot of that stuff like blazing shield as I mentioned was argued for a ton years ago. Blazing took it double in the shorts by double battle spirit which I'm afraid Backlash now has again, just like sweeps heal BTW, and they wouldn't even consider looking at it. It's actually when the Templar house meme became a thing. While several pointed out templar abilities being useless from battle spirit double dipping, that was their response for vision of templar which people ask for now, yet it was not reality. Templar had 0 defense. Living dark was not there. Eclipse was just a reflect cast over the enemy gat disappeared at break free or purge and respected CC immunity.

History is repeating itself. They gave Templar a Radiant Oppression largely considered OP when they took blinding flashes away, and then nerfed it out of usefulness a patch or 2 later. Templar then was just the only reliable purge and between that and jabs was pretty much it. It was seemingly forever after before backlash was made single target, only copied the templar damage rather than group, and then they made the explosion not resisted by battle spirit

Where we are at now is Backlash once again is double mitigated by battle spirit, but now doesn't copy friendly damage and is still limited to 1 target; and beam is buffed up to where people will say it is OP. Next step is for Beam to be nerfed and the other skills to go untouched again

So given the history; of course jabs will be talked about even though I think that's least for the worries, especially with Maras absorbing less of it. Jabs was the identity for 8 years. And now people are trying to tell templar to accept a new one that more resembles what sorc was? I think they would have went and just played sorc years ago if that's what they wanted

Grega

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Anyone with Templar’s actual interests in mind, would be discussing any of these things…

• Restoring Aura provides a named buff instead of a unique one.
• Solar Disturbance is absolutely useless after the nerf to Maim.
• Blazing Shield has been horrible ever since Battle Spirit buried it.
• Vampire’s Bane does nowhere near enough damage after the DoT changes to warrant a slot.
• Solar Flare has two morphs underperforming at doing each of their designed roles especially Dark Flare after the nerf to Defile.
• Breath of Life is completely in the gutter, being arguably one of the worst burst heals in the game.

But by all means, continue to harp on the one ability that is actually performing the way it was designed while our house is burning down.

A lot of that stuff like blazing shield as I mentioned was argued for a ton years ago. Blazing took it double in the shorts by double battle spirit which I'm afraid Backlash now has again, just like sweeps heal BTW, and they wouldn't even consider looking at it. It's actually when the Templar house meme became a thing. While several pointed out templar abilities being useless from battle spirit double dipping, that was their response for vision of templar which people ask for now, yet it was not reality. Templar had 0 defense. Living dark was not there. Eclipse was just a reflect cast over the enemy gat disappeared at break free or purge and respected CC immunity.

History is repeating itself. They gave Templar a Radiant Oppression largely considered OP when they took blinding flashes away, and then nerfed it out of usefulness a patch or 2 later. Templar then was just the only reliable purge and between that and jabs was pretty much it. It was seemingly forever after before backlash was made single target, only copied the templar damage rather than group, and then they made the explosion not resisted by battle spirit

Where we are at now is Backlash once again is double mitigated by battle spirit, but now doesn't copy friendly damage and is still limited to 1 target; and beam is buffed up to where people will say it is OP. Next step is for Beam to be nerfed and the other skills to go untouched again

So given the history; of course jabs will be talked about even though I think that's least for the worries, especially with Maras absorbing less of it. Jabs was the identity for 8 years. And now people are trying to tell templar to accept a new one that more resembles what sorc was? I think they would have went and just played sorc years ago if that's what they wanted

This is very much the reality and what will most likely happen.

Seraphayel

ProudMary wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin Is there absolutely no news on getting a better Jabs animation? Even with the dmg nerfs, there are soooo many Templars refusing to slot Jabs because of how it looks. Are the devs really okay with this?

Honestly, what kind of answer do you expect? It's a no, even if they refuse to tell you. It's been over half a year, this is of no concern for them. So the only thing you can do is get used to the new one because it's obviously going to stay.

Then ZOS should get used to people continuously complaining about the changes they made to jabs animation. The new jabs animation is nonsensical in the extreme.

And ZOS has never commented on this issue directly as you have claimed.

Ya, I have no intention of dropping this issue until ZOS at least comments on it one way or another. This should remain a front page issue until the complaint is dealt with rather than just ignored.

Again, honest question: If they say the new animation is going to stay and they're not going to change it, will you refrain from asking to get the animation changed after they made their statement?