...Was Cyrodiil Worth It?

dem0n1k

Cyrodiil gameplay & guild vs guild battles are my best times in ESO. So, my vote is totally worth it
If it wasn't for this PVP mode, I would have got bored & left ESO not long after One Tamriel dropped.
Sure, it's not without it's issues, especially as an Oceanic player, much lag, such rubber-banding.

Artim_X

When it works and there is a full pop, Cyrodiil is the most fun thing to do in this game at least for me.

ZOS should focus on improving the servers so that everyone can experience how much fun Cyrodiil can be.

deleted221205-002626

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

I don't understand why what is a fraction of content gets so much "balance".

I think the areas should be completely separate. With different rules for each suited to the different purposes of each.
ZOS is trying to make both happy and failing.

In PVE no one (or mostly no one) complains if you and your build are great at killing monsters. In PVP other players are the monsters and they object if they think you and your build is unfairly killing them. I don't know how that can be balanced. It has an inherent conflict.

In some situations particularly in cyro the imbalance isnt always the game but the player... At least it appears that way sometimes =p

francesinhalover

the question is, would more people play eso if pvp never existed?

Personaly i really dislike pvp in this game, and if i do it i'm the healer.

The constant stun fest and ganking nightblades it's just annoying to me.

Let's think about it.

No pvp means = better balance.
Full cyrodil to do pve on.
And this time wasted fixing the game so cyrodil can work would be spend on pve.
also...more sets we could use, because again pvp doesn't exist so there's no pvp sets.

Faded

Yes.

VaranisArano

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

I don't understand why what is a fraction of content gets so much "balance".

I think the areas should be completely separate. With different rules for each suited to the different purposes of each.
ZOS is trying to make both happy and failing.

In PVE no one (or mostly no one) complains if you and your build are great at killing monsters. In PVP other players are the monsters and they object if they think you and your build is unfairly killing them. I don't know how that can be balanced. It has an inherent conflict.

In PVE, Molag Kena, Domihaus, and the coalition of trial bosses complains to the Devs whenever power creep gets too high.

Then the PVEers are shocked, just shocked, when their DPS gets nerfed.

And everyone likes to conveniently forget that ESO has horizontal progression, which means that your builds would still get nerfed if the game was PVE-only.

peacenote

I play both PvE and PvP, but lean more heavily towards PvE, and I love Cyrodiil. Because I'm not super competitive in PvP, even the lag doesn't bother me... it's only the disconnects, when I miss out on credit for an epic battle or become out of sync and location with my friends, that really upset me.

I also am not sure Cyrodiil or even PvE or PvP is solely or mostly to blame for the game's issues today. Yes, loud voices complain about this but often it's ZOS failing to come up with nuanced solutions that COULD address both PvE and PvP and, on the PvE side, there's an issue with content creators not syncing up with the combat team.

Jaraal

Even with all it’s problems, Cyrodiil is the best part of this game. Yes, ZOS keeps making it less and less fun by not fixing the performance issues, reducing group size, not addressing long standing bugs like stuck in combat and 49,710 day debuffs, and continually introducing radical, gameplay altering sets. But there is nothing else quite like it available at this point.

ArchangelIsraphel

If Cyrodiil is a sin, then I'm an unrepentant sinner.

Went from a pure pve player to doing both pve and pvp because I find cyro and the intense fort sieges delightful, even if cyro has its problems.

baltic1284

Jaraal wrote: »

Even with all it’s problems, Cyrodiil is the best part of this game. Yes, ZOS keeps making it less and less fun by not fixing the performance issues, reducing group size, not addressing long standing bugs like stuck in combat and 49,710 day debuffs, and continually introducing radical, gameplay altering sets. But there is nothing else quite like it available at this point.

There isn't but Cyrodiil does need a lot of work from making more friendly for none PVPers so they can get the Sky shards and missions there done to performance improvements and allowing large groups of players that want to participate to do so.
And personally, I don't see any of these happening at all as they didn't just simply put the carriage in front of the horse, they threw it into Jupiter's orbit then grabbed the horse and threw the poor thing clear to Alpha Centauri, basically the two will never meet and the issues won't be resolved till they stop putting content and purely focus on the issues and actually fix them all and correct the problems.
Me being a non PVPer shouldn't have sky shards and missions locked behind PVP and told to accept the bulling sexual acts that Arnt needed and the abuse no matter just to appease a small group of the community. If that is the case, then PVP of any kind needs be banned outside Cyrodiil and I don't see that happening either for the stated reasons.

IsharaMeradin

I am not a big pvp player. I am trying to do it more as there isn't much for my main to do now. I just seem to pick all the wrong times as either the map is already flipped to my faction or it is being taking back by the other two. Defensive groups rarely seem to exist. When groups are going on and I can get into one, I do tend to have some fun.

Cyrodiil is worth it, however. Without the conflict there, the faction story lines do not make sense. I am glad that the game was built that way. The story doesn't send you to Cyrodiil to pvp but it does lend itself to indicating that pvp is the intended "end game" content.

It is better than just tacking on an arena or battleground and just having players fight players without a story reason for it. Sure it could be said that warriors on the same side would fight each other as a form of practice. But put that into perspective for the game... "Hey guys, lets fight each other in the arena so we can get better at fighting the NPCs". Doesn't really work that way.

Only completionists really need to worry about sky shards and "clearing the map". There are enough skill points / sky shards in all the PvE zones that one can avoid all the PvP sky shards / skill points and still have plenty to unlock all the passives in every skill line and more active / ultimate skills than can be slotted.

Each to their own. I just hope that the various patches do not scare away the pvp players so that there are groups to join and to fight when I do have the time and decide to give Cyrodiil a shot.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding

Dojohoda

Cyrodiil is the best part of this game. For me, anyway.

Amottica

psychotrip wrote: »

I've been lurking through these discussions, and I've noticed a trend in the complaints. More than a few posters suggest that the mechanical issues facing ESO are caused, in large part, by Cyrodiil. Specifically the need to "balance" pvp in Cyrodiil, or even just to reduce the incessant lag for which it's become infamous.

For ages and across many MMORPGs PvE has blamed PvP and PvP has blamed PvE for "balance" changes. ESO is no different as this is a very easy retort when changes are made that players disagree with.

Beyond that, Cyrodill is very important to the game as any successful MMORPG with a PvE focus also has PvP as one of the many different activities available. It is almost litterally a required part of the game.

Turtle_Bot

balance issues is not really to do with pvp though, its to do with the lack of separation of the 2 modes when making balancing changes. battle spirit has been there for ages, but never truly taken advantage of when designing sets/skills etc.
They are finally starting to balance separately and you are seeing it in sets like rallying cry, empower etc.

As for lag, it is 100% a server hardware issue. We have all seen the performance improve during every mid year mayhem event, despite there being 10 times as many players in cyrodiil/IC during the events, when they rent additional servers, and the immediate performance improvements that occurred when PC NA got their new servers, so that problem is on them to get on with fixing for everyone.

So 100% it is worth it, it is insanely fun to play when it works and when balance for the mode is done properly and in such a way as to not affect pve as well.

SeaGtGruff

I'm another confirmed PvE player who loves both Cyrodiil and the Imperial City. I've been getting better at engaging in actual PvP, as opposed to just doing PvE in a PvP zone, but I doubt I'll ever be more interested in PvP than in PvE. Nevertheless, I'd be sad if Cyrodiil and the Imperial City were either removed from the game entirely or replaced with PvE versions.

Cuddlypuff

I don't understand why there exists a divide between PVP and PVE. Chance are, if a player is good at PVP, they will also be good at PVE and vice versa. It is quite literally the same game with the same mechanics. A bad change is just a bad change - it rarely has anything to do with one mode or the other (and more often than not, it is bad for both).

baltic1284

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

I don't understand why there exists a divide between PVP and PVE. Chance are, if a player is good at PVP, they will also be good at PVE and vice versa. It is quite literally the same game with the same mechanics. A bad change is just a bad change - it rarely has anything to do with one mode or the other (and more often than not, it is bad for both).

The issue between PVP and PVE started when the PVP community started blaming the PVE community for all the things wrong with the PVP community and PVP game play, that is where the divide really started to happen and has only gotten worse over time is it the whole PVP community that does it no just a select few but it had a massive impact on relations.
Performance in Cyrodiill has been a major issue since the games launch of it, the fact the game was built on you pic a faction and stick with it was done away with the Imperial edition of the game and since then any race any alliance and such doesn't help the situation at all.
At the same time many PVE players are in general tired of content in Cyrodiill and in the Imperial city to include the sky shards and collections and armor being locked away from theme, then told they are not wanted because they don't PVP and then have those same PVPers go into PVE content and PVP there, and again get told deal with it they run the game and such doesn't help either.
All and all there blame enough on both sides for what has happened to the PVP content at the moment and the PVE content at the moment both from within the community and from the company itself and staff. Unfortunately there is really no way to mend what has happened till both sides sit down and apologize for what was allowed to happen and for what was said and for broken promises made. Till that happens not much headway will be made to mend old wounds and make the community calm and inviting again for both new PVP players and the PVE player bases.

R1234

Personally I don’t think it’s worth it. The large scale PvP is OK, but building the world around Three Banners war and sacrificing Cyrodiil to PvP strikes me as waste of totally good storytelling.

The large scale PvP aspect could be done with e.g. large-scale tourney of Boethiah instead where three sides vie for dominance, or as tale of three competing mercenaries campaigns peddling their service to the different rulers at the edge of the world, or whatever. Neither of those would take a popular province, nor stymie the storytelling by the presence of static, futile three-sided wars that presents extra narrative hurdles with next to no playthrough.

TL;DR: I don’t mind PvP being in game, but I feel that it could have been easily done with the expense of far less narrative resources.

gameswithaspoon

psychotrip wrote: »

Not making this a poll since this is a complicated question.

.....

In light of this I have to ask: was centering the entire game around a 3 way faction war in the empire's largest province a good idea? Has it been worth it?

Rewind to 2014. Is this what people wanted from an Elder Scrolls MMO? Is this, by and large, what the fanbase was begging for? Personally, I was just kind of confused by the decision.

And yet, everything else in the game, from the factions, to the story, to the starter zones, was built around this feature.

...
But that's just my opinion, from a primarily pve player, who would pvp more often were it not for Cyrodiil. What do you think?

As a pvp-er who has played pvp in multiple MMOs, ESOs pvp scene has remained viable far longer than every other MMO I've ever played.

The problem with every other MMO that focuses on arena and small match based PVP (like Battlegrounds) is that eventually those modes kill themselves through attrition. Pre-mades become too good versus the rest of the population and then one night even those premades sit in a que for six hours without a fight. Cyrodiil is large enough and fluid enough that it has so far avoided that fate.

People forget how incredibly popular Cyrodiil in fact was at launch and for some time after. As the population has shrunk, individuals and groups have more of an impact, and so egos get in the way a lot now. And so many MMOs have launched and failed after ESO- so there is something unique in what ESO offers.

Lebkuchen

psychotrip wrote: »

Not making this a poll since this is a complicated question.

So I obviously have my own opinions on why the game is in the state its in (which I'll spare you from in this post) but one issue you all keep bringing up is Cyrodiil itself.


I've been lurking through these discussions, and I've noticed a trend in the complaints. More than a few posters suggest that the mechanical issues facing ESO are caused, in large part, by Cyrodiil. Specifically the need to "balance" pvp in Cyrodiil, or even just to reduce the incessant lag for which it's become infamous.

In light of this I have to ask: was centering the entire game around a 3 way faction war in the empire's largest province a good idea? Has it been worth it?

Rewind to 2014. Is this what people wanted from an Elder Scrolls MMO? Is this, by and large, what the fanbase was begging for? Personally, I was just kind of confused by the decision.

And yet, everything else in the game, from the factions, to the story, to the starter zones, was built around this feature.

Fast forward to 2022. Cyrodiil's lag is legendary, entire playstyles feel useless, it's hard for new players to integrate, it barely feels like a factor in the story, and yet the game is still being balanced around this massive pvp mode that no one asked for.

That last bit may be a little harsh, as I know Cyrodiil has its fans, but if ZOS cant balance this mode, or even get it working sometimes, then all I can do is sit and wonder why they thought this is what an Elder Scrolls MMO needed in the first place, instead of focusing on more thematically appropriate features.

For me anyway, Cyrodiil has become this game's original sin. I would've been happy with arena pvp and some specific, lore-appropriate battlegrounds. Instead they pushed the franchise in a direction no one asked for, contriving 3 factions that barely make sense to fight over some generic farmland, and they didn't even do it well.

But that's just my opinion, from a primarily pve player, who would pvp more often were it not for Cyrodiil. What do you think?

@psychotrip This is neither complicated nor a question. This is you trying to find someone to blame. You are starting to realise that barking directly at ZOS is not working, because they do not listen to their customers. So you attack the next best thing. The players standing next to you. Or whatever you can think of next. It is a common mechanism, but it is useless and counterproductive. Focus and think about it. May the force be with you.

daniel.13b16_ESO

Yes, and I love Imperial City too.

A lot fo the advertising of the game was based aroudn the three faction war, as was the main CGI trailer. This is literally the reason a lot started playing in the first place.

Cyrodiil and IC are my endgame. I play chapters, do dungeons on vet but have never stepped foot in a trial. I love Cyro as it was designed, which also includes the PVE aspect.

I do wish it would receive a coat of paint to change it up as we have been fighting for the same keeps for years now. Maybe a daecric cataclysm could change some of the landscape and keep design?

UnabashedlyHonest

Cyrodiil was the original end game content. It used to be glorious. It will be really interesting to see what it looks like after U35 drops tomorrow.

Jaraal

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

Cyrodiil was the original end game content. It used to be glorious. It will be really interesting to see what it looks like after U35 drops tomorrow.

It will be pure profit for me. I'm taking time off work to farm the broken PvP sets.

But not the first day. We know the first day is mostly down time.

YandereGirlfriend

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

I don't understand why what is a fraction of content gets so much "balance".

I think the areas should be completely separate. With different rules for each suited to the different purposes of each.
ZOS is trying to make both happy and failing.

In PVE no one (or mostly no one) complains if you and your build are great at killing monsters. In PVP other players are the monsters and they object if they think you and your build is unfairly killing them. I don't know how that can be balanced. It has an inherent conflict.

Gotta stop you there with that last paragraph.

The monsters in PvE might not get mad that you kill them so quickly but ZOS apparently does get mad - hence all of the blanket nerfs to damage in this upcoming patch.

Waylander07

I would not be here if not for the pvp. Some of my best gaming experiences have been in Cyrodiil, there is nothing like defending a keep against superior numbers and somehow managing to win after a long drawn-out fight.
Unfortunately the performance issues and poor game management with the constant merry-go-round of buff's and nerfs is ruining something that promised so much and pretty much delivered in the early years though there were still problems.
ESOs PVP has no real competition where players face of in mass battles which is why some of us keep playing in the hope that they will fix the worst problems before the pvp side dies completely.

Thraben

Without Cyrodiil, the Game would not have made it beyond Orsinium, not even speaking of One Tamriel.

PvE Guys tend to forget in what state the game was in the beginning. I can clearly remember that only mass PvP and Hardcore Elder Scrolls players kept it alive for quite a while. Even MMOs that have been forgotten long ago were serious competitors back then and the PvE guys in general found ESO rather lackluster.

Reverb

If not for cyrodiil I would have played this like a single player RPG. I would have done the story, enjoyed the expanded TES lore, then bailed to play other games. I would probably come back for a few days for new content and that’s it.

I stayed for the pvp. The siege mechanics, the huge open world battles, the friendships and rivalries I developed in those first months. That’s why I immersed in communities, the economy, and end game pve content. Without cyrodiil, far fewer players would have stuck around for the first year.

Yes, cyrodiil was worth it, and deserved (and deserves) better than the devs have given it.

xylena_lazarow

I only ever played this game for the PvP combat, which they ruined, so I no longer play or spend money.

If they fix the combat I'll gladly return as a paying customer.

Soraka

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Yes, a lot of us would never have played ESO if it were not for Cyrodiil PvP.

Yes I agree with this. I wouldn't be playing ESO without Cyro.