...Was Cyrodiil Worth It?

Minnesinger

It is all matter of opinion. I can run thorugh some trials, arenas and dungeons but I just can not stand overland content. I used to do all new pve areas but it goes old and boring pretty quick. Cyrodiil is much more fun. I am not necessarily enjoying of fights so much than just have a bit of look what is happening there. Zone chat can be entertaining. Without Cyro I see no reason to play the game anymore.

ProudMary

...was being the operative word. With so many balance issues now days it's more a lesson in frustration.

Ralamil

psychotrip wrote: »

More than a few posters suggest that the mechanical issues facing ESO are caused, in large part, by Cyrodiil. Specifically the need to "balance" pvp in Cyrodiil, or even just to reduce the incessant lag for which it's become infamous.

As someone who is very critical of this game - having pushed for refunds on various things due to ZOS's inability (or unwillingness) to fix game-breaking bugs - I would argue very few issues are caused BY Cyrodiil. Rather, they were issues that were always present, and Cyrodiil is the right environment to bubble them up to a noticeable level. Skills, passives, etc which constantly check the status of nearby players for X might not perform poorly in a dungeon with a cap of 4 players. But in a keep in Cyrodiil where you may have 10, 20, or 50 "Friendlies" nearby that all need to be checked for LoS, checked for condition Y, etc? Yeah that's going to perform much worse depending on how the code is written.

psychotrip wrote: »

In light of this I have to ask: was centering the entire game around a 3 way faction war in the empire's largest province a good idea? Has it been worth it?

The combat and PvP in this game is, in my opinion, superior (by general/overall design at least, maybe not by execution lately) to many other MMOs, because many MMOs are still trite WoW clones.

psychotrip wrote: »

Rewind to 2014. Is this what people wanted from an Elder Scrolls MMO? Is this, by and large, what the fanbase was begging for? Personally, I was just kind of confused by the decision.

And yet, everything else in the game, from the factions, to the story, to the starter zones, was built around this feature.

Well it was their premise to have a constant, supported-by-lore giant PvP zone, and they use it as the backdrop for most of the initial 3-faction story lines, so... sure, why not. It's not an uninteresting premise, on its own.

psychotrip wrote: »

Fast forward to 2022. Cyrodiil's lag is legendary, entire playstyles feel useless, it's hard for new players to integrate, it barely feels like a factor in the story, and yet the game is still being balanced around this massive pvp mode that no one asked for.

The first third of this quote is because of poor design choices made by ZOS after committing to the premise, which is not the same as the premise being inherently flawed. The part about barely feeling like a factor in the story is, again, because they haven't really done much with it. It was a huge part of the game at launch. And now we're many years removed from said launch.

Also the bit about the game being balanced around pvp is hilariously misinformed. The amount of content ZOS releases with a PvE focus that utterly breaks PvP is staggering. Most of us in the PvP community do NOT view this game as being balanced around PvP, or really focused on PvP at all. To us it feels like ZOS doesn't understand their own PvP anymore and so has ditched it by the wayside.

psychotrip wrote: »

That last bit may be a little harsh, as I know Cyrodiil has its fans, but if ZOS cant balance this mode, or even get it working sometimes, then all I can do is sit and wonder why they thought this is what an Elder Scrolls MMO needed in the first place, instead of focusing on more thematically appropriate features.

Again, it's not so much "can't" as "won't" or "hasn't bothered." They ditched the idea of having a dedicated PvP design lead and instead, iirc, just made one guy lead combat designer for all content... well after original devs made poor choices and bailed on the company.

Also, the war IS thematically appropriate, given that it parallels the Dominion-Empire war referenced all over the place in Skyrim. And the inclusion of PvP in an MMO is to cater to a certain group of players that are interested in it. That SHOULD be a business priority.

psychotrip wrote: »

For me anyway, Cyrodiil has become this game's original sin. I would've been happy with arena pvp and some specific, lore-appropriate battlegrounds. Instead they pushed the franchise in a direction no one asked for, contriving 3 factions that barely make sense to fight over some generic farmland, and they didn't even do it well.

But that's just my opinion, from a primarily pve player, who would pvp more often were it not for Cyrodiil. What do you think?

Strongly disagreeing here. The other existing PvP content - IC, battlegrounds - are no better balanced than Cyrodiil. They don't suffer the same performance issues to the scale of players and area size, but that isn't the only concern when it comes to "balance." Additionally, ZOS has a very broken queue system/group finder. MAYBE it would be a higher priority if it were the only way to sign up for PvP. But at this point I am very skeptical about any of ZOS priorities on fixing broken functionality when they can just slap a few reskins into the crown store and watch the cash flow in.

Jaimeh

The most fun I've had in game was in Cyrodiil, and if performance obliged, PvP in ESO would be outstanding. Even with the performance issues you can't beat the excitement of massive keep battles, it's an incredible high and only possible in Cyrodiil. On another note, I really do not appreciate all the recent comments on the forums (usually made by non-PvPers) bringing into question PvP existing in this game; when ESO came out, PvP was its biggest animadverting point, the combat in this game being reactive is so beautifully suitable to it, so please do not negatively question you don't even experience, because vcal minorities do affect dev decisions sometimes, and I would hate to see PvP being shun in the future. Overland PvP is amazing when it works, I hope with the bug fixing, and Q3 optimization next year that Cyro will be more populated and more popular again.

Waylander07

I came for the PVP and would not be playing without it. If PVP had been managed right then I believe it would be a huge success.
Sorry I find PVE repetitive and boring as once you have completed a dungeon why do it again. PVP is always a challenge as most opponents are unpredictable.

burglar

I remember talking with friends about how great an elder scrolls pvp/co-op experience would be after having left daoc. Everyone at the time thought that daoc was the greatest pvp centered mmo to have existed and I think it may still be. So, when development started, the game had many incentives to center development around that idea. This was also before the games industry had completely migrated to catering to casual players and cell phone gamers. But, by the time the game launched, I think the industry was changing.

The industry is slowly shifting back to appreciating difficult games, which I think can be seen with the souls series, and how it may have inspired the difficulty of returnal - it took a while but we're coming back around. People could start tiring of elden ring just in time for the recode. I don't know how many people are likely to migrate to an older MMO, but there's a chance. Even if not, the pvp player base often sticks around longer than does the PvE base whether because of loyalty, or because there simply aren't as many PvP games as there are PvE ones. So, I don't think it was a mistake at all. Not to mention it fits perfectly with Elder Scroll lore!

The only game I see giving ESO a run for its money is camelot unchained, which mark jacobs is leading development on - the lead designer of daoc; matt firor, pres. of zenimax used to work with him on daoc. Camelot unchained is looking to be like daoc on crack... it's 100% pvp based but with the ability to build structures and cities. Kinda like shadowbane and daoc combined.

xFocused

I've been playing PvP for a long time now. When it works, it's extremely fun and gets your adrenaline going. I've met so many wonderful people and made some amazing friends & enemies (Lol) because of Cyrodiil alone. I've been apart of several great guilds and find myself with a really great guild at the moment running Cyro groups daily & weekly. With all that being said...

Cyrodiil is a love/hate relationship. You love it and hate because like I said, when it works, it's amazing, but sadly the bugs, glitches and of course lag outweigh the good. With every single update, the same problems are still around. Unable to bar swap in bigger fights, stuck in combat when I'm just standing in a empty field, the disconnects and bluescreens, the constant lag and skills not going off, having to press X 4-5 times just to enter a keep...these are all sadly problems that have been around for years but yet we still login. I'd say Cyro is worth it only because we login with the hope that each night will be different and things will work. If Zos could somehow figure out the problems that plagues Cyro, it could be one of the best PvP games out right now in my opinion

amonengelb16_ESO

As someone who has been playing in some competetive guilds in Dark Age of Camelot, Warhammer Online, GuildWars2 and Elder Scrolls Online, I have to admit: Yes. The ride was worth it. But Elder Scrolls Online's Cyrodiil begins to suffer the same sickness as Dark Age did to its ends.

I think ZOS simply had a lot of marketing to do and consider their main competitor: GuildWars2 (2012, release). The hustle against WoW-like MMOs actually began with GuildWars2 and Elder Scrolls Online – both catering for RvR-like PvP-zones in addition to their premium-like PvE-content. While GuildWars 2 followed an opposite high fantasy style, it also did not manage to cater for the RvR-crowd at all.

Now … Cyrodiil nowadays. TESO's PvP is strong and it is really close to being a 2.0-version of Dark Age of Camelot. The bombs work the same in it's radial damage and crowd control is still the most important thing in PvP. But its really made to be casual friendly in its core, where people group up as they plug and play. The core-idea of RvR actually is really inclusive.

DAoC did not just die because World of Warcraft had been released. It also died because it featured at some point Mythic Gear-alikes (called Artifacts) which you had to level up. And yes: DAoC featured a CP-like system too at this point. Moreover higher PvP-ranks granted mandatory advantages in PvP. Whats left on a dying MMO? A really small and hardcore-niche community, which you hardly can access. The idea of "Realm vs Realm" is gone, because every player in such communities owns maxed-out accounts for each faction.

The PvP community on Playstation actually transforms into this state. There are pseudo-toxic players running around whole day, crying "Dead game" in Zone Chat, destroying RvR experience of new and casual players by logging into different faction after spying or in order to gank. Things me and my guild did in Dark Age of Camelot to their mommys. Problably due to the same dumb reasons.

In 2023 I think that Cyrodiil had enough …

StihlReign

Yep.

PvP is Endgame. ;]

kingsim3000

Cyrodil pvp mode is actualy pretty awesome. I mean ofc we got lag and things to improve, but the mode itself, 3 factions fighting for scrolls and keeps, or just because, is so much fun. Although the usability of the enviroment in cyro is a cool factor.
anyways Cyro is the reason to turn on the game in the first place for me and many others!
Hope Zos puts a lil more work into it, when lag is gone for good in a few weeks

gw2only1b14_ESO

TBH 100% honest I never get lag in Cyrodiil I did before 3 yrs ago but after returning 7 months ago It is great no lag BUT you have crazy tank DK and Wardens its seems you have the old wall hack back thru damaged walls and have Farragut keep with the geometric hax to exploit in ( gee fix the wall or the corner) fix those and it would bring more back to pvp and then maybe id get lag again but with 100s less in pvp land Its lag free .

Lebkuchen

gw2only1b14_ESO wrote: »

TBH 100% honest I never get lag in Cyrodiil I did before 3 yrs ago but after returning 7 months ago [...]

May i ask what server and hardware you are playing on, from where you are playing, and if there is anything special about your internet connection? And it would be interesting to know when you are playing, and what campaign you are playing.

Because "I never get lag in Cyrodiil" is something i have never heard before. I bet thousands of players would be dying to know how this works. Thanks.

gw2only1b14_ESO

Lebkuchen wrote: »

gw2only1b14_ESO wrote: »

TBH 100% honest I never get lag in Cyrodiil I did before 3 yrs ago but after returning 7 months ago [...]

May i ask what server and hardware you are playing on, from where you are playing, and if there is anything special about your internet connection? And it would be interesting to know when you are playing, and what campaign you are playing.

Because "I never get lag in Cyrodiil" is something i have never heard before. I bet thousands of players would be dying to know how this works. Thanks.

I play USA and I play NA servers I have fiber optic and my rigs 2yrs old I run 2 add Ons all others off I play all the campaigns.
and I play different hours as I work rotating shift. once again Im in USA so on NA servers

Lebkuchen

So PC NA with fiber optic lets you play big fights without any lag at any time and on any campaign? Sounds good, i guess i will have to move to NA and buy a gaming PC. Thank you for the info

Verbum_Rithimus

In Cyrodiil did mortal man
A lagging biffing-zone decree:
Where Alf, the sacred healer, ran
Through resources measureless to zaan
Down through a zergful sea.

gw2only1b14_ESO

Lebkuchen wrote: »

So PC NA with fiber optic lets you play big fights without any lag at any time and on any campaign? Sounds good, i guess i will have to move to NA and buy a gaming PC. Thank you for the info

Would you not play any pvp without a game rig?

TechMaybeHic

Lebkuchen wrote: »

So PC NA with fiber optic lets you play big fights without any lag at any time and on any campaign? Sounds good, i guess i will have to move to NA and buy a gaming PC. Thank you for the info

I wouldn't count on it. I know more people with gig internet and top end gaming rigs that lag than I've heard of ones that say they don't.

Still would like a video of someone playing Cyrodil pop locked 3 ways with no lag for a session. I've heard the claim, but never seen it.


I've had good stretches, but not going to never having issues. Especially the further away from maintenance. And if it was a user issue; ZOS would not have tried so many things to correct it

ProudMary

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Lebkuchen wrote: »

So PC NA with fiber optic lets you play big fights without any lag at any time and on any campaign? Sounds good, i guess i will have to move to NA and buy a gaming PC. Thank you for the info

I wouldn't count on it. I know more people with gig internet and top end gaming rigs that lag than I've heard of ones that say they don't.

Still would like a video of someone playing Cyrodil pop locked 3 ways with no lag for a session. I've heard the claim, but never seen it.


I've had good stretches, but not going to never having issues. Especially the further away from maintenance. And if it was a user issue; ZOS would not have tried so many things to correct it

It's very well established that most lag and other performance issues are server side, and maybe due in part to dDos prevention software, although the latter assertion of it being due to dDos software doesn't explain how performance if fine for casual questing. It's only under load as in PvP or end game PvE that performance really suffers, which leads most people to believe that performance issues are almost entirely server side for ESO. Ever since witnessing all the times ZOS was able to magically make cyrodiil performance near perfect during MYM events that convinced me and many others that ZOS knows exactly what they need to do to fix the lag and performance issues, they just aren't making the investment to make it happen.

blktauna

gw2only1b14_ESO wrote: »

Lebkuchen wrote: »

So PC NA with fiber optic lets you play big fights without any lag at any time and on any campaign? Sounds good, i guess i will have to move to NA and buy a gaming PC. Thank you for the info

Would you not play any pvp without a game rig?

I pvp on a 2 year old laptop as I have neither the funds nor the space for a 'gaming rig". When lag isn't horrific I do pretty well.

daniel.13b16_ESO

Smells a bit like another request to turn Cyro into a PvE zone. Don't get me wrong, I love PvE but we have plenty of zones for that with new ones added yearly.

Zenimax put large scale RvRvR combat at the heart of its ads for ESO when it launched, which is why also the PvE story revolved around it. I do not do trials so without Cyro and IC I would have left ESO a long time ago as there would be no endgame for me. There are plenty of great PvE MMOs out there so I would have moved on by now to Final Fantasy.