Corrosive Armor needs a nerf.

DrSlaughtr

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Dk or not (insert any other class / skill line) Imho no ability in game should give incredible survivability & damage all in one package, without having at least a serious drawback build in.

Corrosive Armor gives you both. Great damage potential, as you pretty much don't need to invest anything into penetration (strongest offensive stat in the game), as you simply passively can ignore the armour that your target has. On top of that it gives you one of the strongest damage mitigation buff in the game, that is a unique buff - meaning that it can stack with other damage reduction sources.

Now, I am not expert, but I have a feeling that if for example, a Nightblade had the "ignore Physical and Spell Resistance" part on Incap or other class ultimate (and just that, nothing else, without any other buff or damage reduction ) - then it would either be nerfed on PTS and never reach live server, or would be nerfed immediately in a hot fix. It is not a rocket since. Corrosive is overloaded.

ninjagank wrote: »

Oak is the issue. Not corrosive.

Not necessarily. Corrosive was being um.... "pointed out" (that it is unbalanced) even before we get Oakensoul with Heroism, and huge ultigen DK builds existed - they were just using different means / sets to get that ult fasti.

Oakensoul ring imho behaves kinda like a catalyst or "power multiplier". If we have a skill or ultimate that has a certain power level - then with Oaken, it has 2x of that power. So basically what Oaken is doing, is that it "unfolds the cards".

It kinda shows how huge disparity there is between skills / ultimate and classes & lack of balance in general. Some skills are total trash, while others are on a god-like level.

My point was and continues to be on all these threads is gutting skills and ultimates because one bar players are pushing them to extreme levels isn't fair against people who want to play the game as originally conceived. You'll just further pressure them to jump on the train.

Urzigurumash

ninjagank wrote: »

as originally conceived

To go on with my prior subject, as originally conceived Corrosive helped StamDK make up the difference with StamSorc's 5% Damage Done.

In this way, the culprit to the overpowering of Corrosive is the newly revised World in Ruin giving MagDK 5% Damage Done.

StamDK still does not have a Damage Done buff to Direct Damage Spammables like StamSorc and MagDK both have now.

DrSlaughtr

Urzigurumash wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

as originally conceived

To go on with my prior subject, as originally conceived Corrosive helped StamDK make up the difference with StamSorc's 5% Damage Done.

In this way, the culprit to the overpowering of Corrosive is the newly revised World in Ruin giving MagDK 5% Damage Done.

StamDK still does not have a Damage Done buff to Direct Damage Spammables like StamSorc and MagDK both have now.

By "originally conceived" I meant a 2 bar system with buff and sustain management. Not a ring that turns the game into -insert button mashing action genre game here-.

Holycannoli

ninjagank wrote: »

My point was and continues to be on all these threads is gutting skills and ultimates because one bar players are pushing them to extreme levels isn't fair against people who want to play the game as originally conceived. You'll just further pressure them to jump on the train.

Not necessarily because of one bar players. Shooting Star spam is also an issue with Oakensoul but it's not because the skill is OP and needs a nerf. Corrosive is an overpowered ultimate that's made even worse with Oakensoul. Massive damage mitigation while ignoring all resistances should have never happened in the first place.

Urzigurumash

Holycannoli wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

My point was and continues to be on all these threads is gutting skills and ultimates because one bar players are pushing them to extreme levels isn't fair against people who want to play the game as originally conceived. You'll just further pressure them to jump on the train.

Not necessarily because of one bar players. Shooting Star spam is also an issue with Oakensoul but it's not because the skill is OP and needs a nerf. Corrosive is an overpowered ultimate that's made even worse with Oakensoul. Massive damage mitigation while ignoring all resistances should have never happened in the first place.

Then how should it have functioned from 2014 to 2019 when it was first nerfed?

Holycannoli

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Not necessarily because of one bar players. Shooting Star spam is also an issue with Oakensoul but it's not because the skill is OP and needs a nerf. Corrosive is an overpowered ultimate that's made even worse with Oakensoul. Massive damage mitigation while ignoring all resistances should have never happened in the first place.

Then how should it have functioned from 2014 to 2019 when it was first nerfed?[/quote]

Corrosive Armor? I don't remember what it was years ago and I was gone from the game 2019-2022 but I can say what it should be now: Corrosive Weapon, giving the penetration for the duration but no mitigation. So now there is an offensive morph and a defensive morph.

It's as easy as that.

EDIT: Ok I googled it and it was similar to now, and there were complaints about it doing both even then too lol.

Urzigurumash

Holycannoli wrote: »

Corrosive Armor? I don't remember what it was years ago and I was gone from the game 2019-2022 but I can say what it should be now: Corrosive Weapon, giving the penetration for the duration but no mitigation. So now there is an offensive morph and a defensive morph.

It's as easy as that.

EDIT: Ok I googled it and it was similar to now, and there were complaints about it doing both even then too lol.

Why stop with Corrosive, there are many skills in this game which offer both Defense and Offense, even Passives.

Corrosive is largely unchanged since launch. Converted to Poison Damage in 2016, lost DoT Pen in 2019, converted to also give Spell Pen in 2021.

Complaints about StamDK across the history of this game are few.

So you can see that some of us old StamDKs regard calls to nerf this Ult with some suspicion, despite how obviously strong it is, because only recently:

1. DK got a Damage Done buff (but not to any meaningful Melee Martial Damage, the thing Corrosive was initially designed to buff)
2. Whip got a big buff
3. 100% uptime Major Heroism was introduced

Urzigurumash

Here's a good fix for Corrosive to reinforce its original purpose of giving StamDK some identity:

Convert all Physical and Bleed Damage to Poison, increase Poison Damage Done by X%

Take off the Pen, leave the Mitigation.

The issue with your suggestion @Holycannoli is that the Ult would be trash without massive Ult Gen, since we'd be left swinging underpowered Nirnhoned Swords without any decent Pen during the majority of playtime. You will see for most of history most StamDK ran Sharpened Maul frontbars, to buff Leap, but also because we didn't have much uptime on Corrosive and tended to use it defensively or as a tank buster rather than as our primary Ult.

So, unlike the numerous other skills which offer both Defense and Offense, Corrosive had a unique limitation: it was impossible for a StamDK to optimize their damage when the Ult isn't up and when it is in the same build.

This problem would be mostly removed with something like my idea.

Holycannoli

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Here's a good fix for Corrosive to reinforce its original purpose of giving StamDK some identity:

Convert all Physical and Bleed Damage to Poison, increase Poison Damage Done by X%

Take off the Pen, leave the Mitigation.

The issue with your suggestion @Holycannoli is that the Ult would be trash without massive Ult Gen, since we'd be left swinging underpowered Nirnhoned Swords without any decent Pen during the majority of playtime. You will see for most of history most StamDK ran Sharpened Maul frontbars, to buff Leap, but also because we didn't have much uptime on Corrosive and tended to use it defensively or as a tank buster rather than as our primary Ult.

So, unlike the numerous other skills which offer both Defense and Offense, Corrosive had a unique limitation: it was impossible for a StamDK to optimize their damage when the Ult isn't up and when it is in the same build.

This problem would be mostly removed with something like my idea.

Taking off the pen doesn't leave it much different than Molten Shell though? I see your train of thought here and my original idea was to keep it a defensive morph (but with a different mechanic involving melee damage reflection) but since there's already a defensive morph I feel giving players the option of offensive or defensive is more interesting overall.

My second character ever was a stamDK, back when every DK was a vampire magDK and we didn't even have many stamina morphs. Wound up playing my stam sorc more and he was even worse back then, but I'm a glutton for punishment and like being the odd duckling going against the meta.

If it stays the way it is so be it. I do have two DKs that use Corrosive.

robpr

Charged trait being a problem - Combustion nerfed
Oakensoul being a problem - Corrosive armor is now suddenly a problem

Whats next, Major Brutality is a problem, lets nerf Molten Armaments?

I play BG almost every day and I saw Corrosive DK maybe once - vast majority of DKs still use Leap(when it works) or Dawnbreaker.
I feel also you overestimate the offensive value of this ult - amor ignore is strong, but the ult itself lasts for 12s, so unless you prepare your Molten Whip beforehand you have maybe 1-2 tries to deliver the damage and the opponent wont stay still and let you do it. Spamming the Dizzy or even Snipe is more effective than whip in this case.
Defensively it is also strong, but half-decent Templar or dots will just jab through you because it limits the single tick damage, not damage done per second.

Also when Thews of Harbringer necro was a thing, there were no calls to nerf Bonedaddy Transformation, but to 'just dont attack it and wait for ult to wear off'. So I'm gonna say the same and just move away from DK until Corrosive wears off - problem solved.

Holycannoli

BG and Cyrodiil are different things that require different builds. You don't see Dark Convergence spam in BGs for instance, or Coward's Gear in Cyrodiil while it's useful in Capture the Relic.

divnyi

Holycannoli wrote: »

while it's useful in Capture the Relic.

Um, no. Even if you want to make troll tank build, this is not the set.

Holycannoli

divnyi wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

while it's useful in Capture the Relic.

Um, no. Even if you want to make troll tank build, this is not the set.

Oh I don't use it anymore but I had success with it in Capture the Relic years ago. That extra speed came in handy. It's a very niche build though that is worthless in Cyrodiil except to get you from keep to keep when you're stuck in combat lol.

And that's what I mean: BGs and Cyrodiil are two different beasts. I personally favor balancing PvP around Cyrodiil only.

xylena_lazarow

robpr wrote: »

Also when Thews of Harbringer necro was a thing, there were no calls to nerf Bonedaddy Transformation, but to 'just dont attack it and wait for ult to wear off'. So I'm gonna say the same and just move away from DK until Corrosive wears off - problem solved.

Ah yes avoiding fights or waiting for timers to tick down, great PvP game lol.

Strategies that severely limit interaction cause games to fall apart.

Theignson

celner4_ESO wrote: »

It’s by far the strongest ultimate in the game on the class that’s already brain dead friendly gameplay with its girthy fire and forget damage output and a CC with a root on a 4/8sec CD. Having the ultimate ontop of all the inherent strengths bypass all resistances for that long on such a small CD ultimate on top of it is beyond words how is this even a thing. This game could have competitive play if it wasn’t such a cheese fest all the time with this sh!t it’s a shame. People wondering why they are getting whipped for 30-40k, corrosive armor is how they achieve that. Literally is referenced as “God Mode” for a reason.

Come DK’s come rally and defend yourself desperately “not a DK main”.

EDIT: Adding this here because it keeps being brought up.

You could achieve 30k+ whips before high isle. To act like it’s a mythic problem is willfully ignorant. It’s survivability and dmg bonuses being overpowered have been a problem of the ultimate not any Mythic in combination with them even though they make it slightly worse than it already is. Let’s not obfuscate what the problem is though.

Brokensoul is a separate additive issue but eluding to 1 shot whips or corrosive not being a problem before Oakensoul is flat out dishonest.

The entire premise of this post is wrong. No one is averaging 30k whips. And please don't show me a death recap to prove this, since they are often wrong. You need to show a Combat Metric log.

My MagDK with 7500 WD, infinite penetration (corrosive) and 116% critical damage is averaging 6-8k whips. Note I say averaging. Occasionally a crit will hit 10k and once I hit 14k.

How could you boost that? Probably by using all bloodthirsty, maybe all divines-- in other words become a glass cannon-- but even then you aren't going to get to 30k. In my build The critical damage is almost capped, the penetration is capped, and the weapon damage is high (I have seen posts that WD is capped at 9k ). Do the math and even with 9k WD you don't get this sort of boost.

There is no way to get to 30k in pvp with whips on average and I doubt you can do it on a single hit.

Post a combat metrics log after a big fight and show me the average and peak Molten whip hit and it will be nowhere near 30k.

You could say "If I found a level 10 player with no CP in Cyrodil and he wasn't blocking and had no armor and no buffs I could get a 30k hit with a crit". Ok, but that is not a usual situation.

All that being said, my MDK is very strong now with Brokensoul and couldn't get those numbers without it

chillfirepup

As far as my experience goes, I get killed through corrosive armor all the time now as a DK with and without Oakensoul. Can another player's corrosive armor eat through another's? I die in seconds after popping that ult. And, one shots are coming from all kinds of classes on my end. I just don't have time to react to sorcerers, nightblades, or even templars. There isn't any fight, really. And, I did get a heavy attack 1-shot for about 35k once from a DK. But, it's not just DK now.

Unified_Gaming

Theignson wrote: »

celner4_ESO wrote: »

It’s by far the strongest ultimate in the game on the class that’s already brain dead friendly gameplay with its girthy fire and forget damage output and a CC with a root on a 4/8sec CD. Having the ultimate ontop of all the inherent strengths bypass all resistances for that long on such a small CD ultimate on top of it is beyond words how is this even a thing. This game could have competitive play if it wasn’t such a cheese fest all the time with this sh!t it’s a shame. People wondering why they are getting whipped for 30-40k, corrosive armor is how they achieve that. Literally is referenced as “God Mode” for a reason.

Come DK’s come rally and defend yourself desperately “not a DK main”.

EDIT: Adding this here because it keeps being brought up.

You could achieve 30k+ whips before high isle. To act like it’s a mythic problem is willfully ignorant. It’s survivability and dmg bonuses being overpowered have been a problem of the ultimate not any Mythic in combination with them even though they make it slightly worse than it already is. Let’s not obfuscate what the problem is though.

Brokensoul is a separate additive issue but eluding to 1 shot whips or corrosive not being a problem before Oakensoul is flat out dishonest.

The entire premise of this post is wrong. No one is averaging 30k whips. And please don't show me a death recap to prove this, since they are often wrong. You need to show a Combat Metric log.

My MagDK with 7500 WD, infinite penetration (corrosive) and 116% critical damage is averaging 6-8k whips. Note I say averaging. Occasionally a crit will hit 10k and once I hit 14k.

How could you boost that? Probably by using all bloodthirsty, maybe all divines-- in other words become a glass cannon-- but even then you aren't going to get to 30k. In my build The critical damage is almost capped, the penetration is capped, and the weapon damage is high (I have seen posts that WD is capped at 9k ). Do the math and even with 9k WD you don't get this sort of boost.

There is no way to get to 30k in pvp with whips on average and I doubt you can do it on a single hit.

Post a combat metrics log after a big fight and show me the average and peak Molten whip hit and it will be nowhere near 30k.

You could say "If I found a level 10 player with no CP in Cyrodil and he wasn't blocking and had no armor and no buffs I could get a 30k hit with a crit". Ok, but that is not a usual situation.

All that being said, my MDK is very strong now with Brokensoul and couldn't get those numbers without it

Not 30k sadly....

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/573938160724213791/995353585959305316/Snapshot_18-1.png

xylena_lazarow

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

Not 30k sadly...

Were you able to kill the 40k hp guy though? Looks like he can recover pretty easily.

huskandhunger

Hopefully they will adjust Corrosive armor at some point, it offers too much defensive and offensive capability in one ability. Maybe they could make it just have the reduce to .03 % max hp defense and reduce ultimate cost to 75, but then take away the armor penetration, or just leave the armor penetration, but then remove the 3% max hp reduction of dmg.

DizzyMac

hahahaha DK players getting all defensive about people wanting to nerf DK skills.. meanwhile DK players have been screaming for Oakensoul nerfs

mariuszeb17_ESO5

How fix Corrosive Armor? Just remove from this morph - limit of incoming damage 3%, and for both morph ultimate does not regenerate during transformation.

Norith_Gilheart_Flail

No, I think DK deserves an Ultimate nerf too.

Corrosive Armour compared to other ultimates *cough* Consuming Darkness *cough*

After all, if people are happy to see the entire pve side inconvenienced due to the ring, more than happy to see an equally pvp suited ultimate toned down to match, and hey - meteor too.

Let's make sure no one has any sense of advantage to FOMO leap classes to.

huskandhunger

mariuszeb17_ESO5 wrote: »

How fix Corrosive Armor? Just remove from this morph - limit of incoming damage 3%, and for both morph ultimate does not regenerate during transformation.

that sounds like a good idea

sbam66

reducing the duration & keeping it how it is would also be a nice adjustment.

Miracle19

jaws343 wrote: »

celner4_ESO wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

ATomiX69 wrote: »

100% major heroism from oakensoul is broken = nerf corrosive.
ESO forums never fail to entertain me.

Corrosive was broken before Oakensoul, it's just that the ring is making it worse. Even in it's current nerfed state compared to how it was it's OP. Ignores 100% of armor? While severely limiting incoming damage? And it's not OP?

It was strong, but you had more time to burst one down if you avoid the DK while it was up meaning there was a counter and that's healthy. Now; they pop it, run wild, then just have to kite and turtle just a few seconds when it goes down

This argument acts as if the problem is solely Oakensoul. Which it is not and has not been. Anyone who plays DK and isn’t mediocre knows that using corrosive gives you the ability to have a flex armor set since you don’t need to go any penetration. Meaning you can go any armor set that generates ultimate (Shalks, drakes, Arkasis etc.) whilst using ulti pots if applicable. This was doable, and a problem before Oakensoul. Oakensoul is arguably worse then some of the builds allowing for both active bars, Oakensoul is just easier to play and more easily accessible to people who need simplicity. But more deadly? No. The only reason Corrosive is a problem (I’ve posted this in previous comments but again I’m referring to Mag DK/Mag Hybrid)? No. Sure whenever you encounter any DK who don’t know what they’re doing using the ability or have a lackluster build it’s not an issue. Any DK worth their salt utilizing ulti gen making this skill a nightmare is who and what I’m referring to, which IS NOT solely Oakensoul. [snip]

That is a pretty drastic oversimplification though.

Pre-oaken, a DK running pure ult gen was sacrificing base skill damage for windows of burst damage. Outside of the ult, their skills were not great.

With Oaken, they get the tooltips of a 3 damage set build, but they can still run pure ult gen setup, and have even more uptime on Corrosive.

I literally put together an Ult Gen sorc build, that has 3 ult gen sets + Oaken, and has the same tooltips has my full damage set build. But now I can cast meteor every 14 seconds. Oaken is providing the damage increase of 2-3 sets on a build on its own.

[edited to remove quote]

Agreed, pre oaken, corrosive was just as strong as it is now(as it should be, DK is a brawler class), the uptime wasn’t nearly what it is now. And like you pointed out, those who used ulti gen 5 piece sets lost so much damage that they were pretty much non-factors and useless.

So with oaken being nerfed, Corrosive won’t be a huge problem. Its easy to kite a DK while he’s in corrosive then kill them as soon as it drops, good players do it all the time.

StarOfElyon

celner4_ESO wrote: »

It’s by far the strongest ultimate in the game on the class that’s already brain dead friendly gameplay with its girthy fire and forget damage output and a CC with a root on a 4/8sec CD. Having the ultimate ontop of all the inherent strengths bypass all resistances for that long on such a small CD ultimate on top of it is beyond words how is this even a thing. This game could have competitive play if it wasn’t such a cheese fest all the time with this sh!t it’s a shame. People wondering why they are getting whipped for 30-40k, corrosive armor is how they achieve that. Literally is referenced as “God Mode” for a reason.

Come DK’s come rally and defend yourself desperately “not a DK main”.

EDIT: Adding this here because it keeps being brought up.

You could achieve 30k+ whips before high isle. To act like it’s a mythic problem is willfully ignorant. It’s survivability and dmg bonuses being overpowered have been a problem of the ultimate not any Mythic in combination with them even though they make it slightly worse than it already is. Let’s not obfuscate what the problem is though.

Brokensoul is a separate additive issue but eluding to 1 shot whips or corrosive not being a problem before Oakensoul is flat out dishonest.

It was never a problem until the Brokensoul ring.

Waylander07

Once again Zos causing infighting by continually releasing broken op gear and making skills op before nerfing with a sledge hammer instead of fine tunning.
As for Oakensoul, if they had released it as it is on pts instead of the broken OP mythic that they released then I doubt that there would have been much uproar about it. They cant really blame people for being upset when people buy something that is then nerfed (imagine buying a BMW car from a garage only for the garage to swap it out for a Mini after a few months)
This patch is the most broken since launch and the fact that Zos relies on P2W over balance and gameplay to make money has caused the deterioration of this game in my opinion.
Its not just Corrosive that is over performing as NBs can kill you with 1 HA and 1 skill with the right gear, while Necros ulti combined with DC is deadly outside of 1v1 to name a few.
[snip]
I don't know about pve but in pvp it seems that Zos has no fixed vision on how to balance their game and we just go round in circles with buffs and nerfs.

[edited for bashing]

davelbier

Vaoh wrote: »

So we’re gonna ask for nerfs to class abilities because an OP mythic item launched?

imo they are basically redesigning the game around oakensoul -- plan crazy mythic, pre-nerf HA/LA buff sets , release OP one-bar content to sell, start to redesign EVERYTHING, nerf the new one-bar set.

is hybridization done?
what sets and skills that we grind and gold out get nerfed next?
working around one mythic that maybe just need a no-pvp limitation, or a cooldown, or something other than what everyone knew would be insane is costing them so much time.

i hope they sold a lot of high isle. i guess -- these constant changes are part of why i dont keep a sub active. i love/hate this game.

MarieCurie0

Corrosive armor is only an issue because of oakensoul. It is supposed to be an expensive ultimate, and it can easily be outlasted by either blocking or moving away. Before oakensoul, stacking into ulti gen to get lower downtimes on corrosive would usually result ina. very weak build with bad survivability. Please don't nerf the class anymore until it has nothing left.

huskandhunger

I think the idea of Corrosive Armor being defensive, and then a separate version being Corrosive Weapons with the unlimited armor piercing could be really effective.