Corrosive Armor needs a nerf.

celner4_ESO

divnyi wrote: »

celner4_ESO wrote: »

leap does not crit you in pvp for 30-40k. Do you know why that is and can explain?

Sure, I can. Because it is two hits. You need to add them together *taps head*

And 2 hits does not = 1 shot and also does not = 1 GCD ability used for a 30-40k result *taps head*
People who don’t block leap when you see the leap animation coming a mile away whatever their distance are not players to base the effectiveness of the ability on. Like 1vXers posting about a “strong build” meanwhile they find baddy players all day in cyrodil and avoid anyone that won’t showcase the ability. And I’m saying this as a MagDK and DK using leap right now and not corrosive isn’t a good DK (or is only winning against bad players) I’m sorry. And ANYTHING in the game giving high up time on this ulti needs to be scrutinized, and looked at very closely. The ulti itself would be fine if the defensive buff was a resolve buff of some sort or armor buff so it can at least be burst down still if you burst combo correctly assuming you survive the whips.

Urzigurumash

divnyi wrote: »

@Urzigurumash I seriously question their ability to go out and say "ye hybridisation was a failure, we are trying to mitigate the damage". I mean physical pen on ulti is easy to implement, instead of full pen. But they won't go this route.

I wonder why ppl don't want whip to be nerfed, and trying to nerf every other aspect of DK instead. DK theme is dots and pressure, whip tho is like a Merciless Resolve - it doesn't fit thematically.

Well I'm not prepared to say it was a failure either, I think it is a good idea and I even think it is a good idea that MagDK has access to Corrosive. This is why I say I'm not opposed to a change, I also recognize the present interaction with Whip is OP.

I think there simply remains some work to be done to further develop the vision of a class being a "school" rather than 1 or 2 "builds" that outcompete anything else you can do with the class - with great respect given to the ability of a class to fulfill a traditional RPG "archetype" to which the class is suited: for a DK, a Knight, dealing damage with Melee Physical Weapons, like actually with the Weapon, not just holding it.

I'm certainly not opposed to discarding of the idea of strict Mag and Stam sub-classes like you said in that other thread, if I understand the development of this combat system correctly this Duel-Class Paradigm wasn't the real intent to begin with. I agree it's best that a Class is more of a "school of martial arts / magic" than one or two narrow sub-classes.

The inaccuracy of the Duel-Class Paradigm was always quite apparent with the term StamDK - what's a StamDK, like with a bow and in all Medium, like a "StamDK" in PvE? Or like with a Sword & Board, some Heavy Armor and spamming Frag Shield? Because in PvE that's a Tank, not a StamDK.

I commented in many DK threads over the last couple years that Cauterize should grant Major Savagery like Flames of Oblivion, and while I was hesitant to get on board to the StamWhip train, being a D Swing Devotee, I eventually did too and even commented when Mag Weapon Damage Whip was announced that I'd prefer access to a Mag-costing Molten Whip with its Seething Fury stacks (and cool eye effect) versus a Stam-costing Poison Whip without Seething Fury.

So it's not like I've been stalwartly opposed to this erosion of the Mag/Stam dichotomy, but as imbalances caused by Hybridization, like the interaction of Whip and Corrosive, come into focus, of course consideration must be given to the historical purpose of any given skill within the context of its particular school of martial arts / magic. Corrosive, this was something that let the DK deal additional damage with their Weapon. The additional mitigation, in part, afforded the DK the opportunity to let themselves be exposed during Dizzy Swing's channel rather than blocking on their S&B bar.

As for Molten Whip and Seething Fury, yes I see what you mean, I think it does fit thematically but it currently exceeds it - it also fell short of its thematic purpose when the Seething Fury stacks were only 4 seconds or whatever. Like Merciless Resolve rewards an NB for light attack weaving, Seething Fury should reward the DK for keeping up their DoTs, re-applying them on cooldown, rather than sitting there spamming Cauterize three times in a row then going in for the kill. So I guess it should simply have the limitation, "stacks of Seething Fury can be gained every X seconds", because 4 seconds off any Ardent Flame skill just didn't work well when every Ardent Flame skill last longer than 4 seconds, but 10 second stacks gainable every 1 second seems to be a bit too strong and undermines the thematic purpose of Seething Fury in maintaining good practice of Akavari Martial Tradition: re-applying your DoTs on cooldown, just as Ranged LA Weaving is a time-honored tradition in the Nightblade School.

To that end, yes, the best suggestion in this thread by far was that Corrosive only augments skills within Melee Range. That's an obvious one. It was simply never relevant before Hybridization, or before the new Stone Giant, because StamDKs in PvP don't use a Bow, and StamDKs in PvE don't use Corrosive.

TechMaybeHic

I was wondering how long until this was called for when Oakensoul came out.

Corrosive only became more common and used over leap sometimes when more were using whip. It's cost seemed to balance it.

As many have said; Oakensoul really is the culprit. Not like it's only DKs running corrosive that are now overturned.

Urzigurumash

I'm not sure that's a perfect suggestion I have there for Seething Fury, but you get my idea. I agree, I think anybody taking a cautious approach to this issue would agree, the several months long interaction of a newly buffed Whip and Corrosive should draw more scrutiny than the multi-year interaction with Corrosive and Stamina Weapon skills. So in that regard @celner4_ESO perhaps you and I are on the same page.

But this scrutiny must consider what Corrosive did when it was balanced. Like I said in my first comment, it was never a problem with Dizzy Swing. That's the simple point here - StamDKs power relative to its old Dizzy Swing sibling, StamSorc, was always dependent on Corrosive. Leap+Corrosive = StamDK. So if you're talking about nerfing Corrosive, yes, you have to fess up and talk about how or whether this will negatively impact the use of Weapon Skills by the build type formerly known as StamDK, despite the fact that it's Whip engendering the calls for its nerf.

Otherwise you may diminish the ability of the Knight class to fulfill a Knight-like archetype - and not on any account of what this Knight archetype is doing, but rather strictly its Battlemage counterpart.

All related to what's going on with Sorc. StamSorc is now making strongest use of the class kit in the form of a Magical Archer. Pretty cool, but if people start talking about nerfing elements of Sorcerer, respect must be given to its more traditional forms of Wizard and Berserker, neither of which are generally regarded as presently operating in an overpowered state.

I've thought that MagSorc and StamDK were fairly well-balanced classes against each other over these last few months, maybe more than they've ever been. That's a good thing - and ideally won't be disrupted by however any imbalances with MagDK and StamSorc are sorted out

neferpitou73

Pretty sure it's just Oakensoul that's the culprit. I've been getting hit with some pretty nasty Incaps as well (like 30k to almost dead nasty). Just take the major heroism off it, or nerf major heroism.

CameraBeardThePirate

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Pretty sure it's just Oakensoul that's the culprit. I've been getting hit with some pretty nasty Incaps as well (like 30k to almost dead nasty). Just take the major heroism off it, or nerf major heroism.

Its definitely not just Oakensoul. The massive whips and heavy attack dks have been a thing for a few patches, oakensoul is just highlighting the problem

duckdown

Remove major heroism in oakensoul = few people will buy high isle

Keep major heroism in oakensoul = broken dk with 90% corrosive uptime

celner4_ESO

duckdown wrote: »

Remove major heroism in oakensoul = few people will buy high isle

Keep major heroism in oakensoul = broken dk with 90% corrosive uptime

The thing is ZoS needs to look at more than just Oakensoul for the uptimes on corrosive with as strong as the ability is. Sets like Shalks, Arkasis, Drakes Rush, hide of the WW, and ultipots in combination make the problem of the high uptime more than just because of Oakensoul and has been the case since before high isle which I’ve mentioned earlier in this thread my MagDK buddy using between of of these 3 sets (Arkasis, shalks, and hide of the ww) and ulti pots for ridiculous corrosive uptime. Oakensoul for sure is not balanced, but that’s not the only problem with the corrosive armor ability itself and its op defensive/dps combination only highlighted as an overpowered ability whenever people use sets to give the ability more ultimate generation thereby using it either on CD or with 5-10sec downtime between casts. Which any decent DK who can play the class 10-20 sec unless they F up is not enough of a window to set up to kill them especially if they are smart with their CC, and GL killing them through Corrosive.

MEBengalsFan2001

Simple solution to impact all builds is make it so that an ultimate has a 1 minute cool down. Meaning if it is a burst type Ultimate it has exactly 1 minute after it is used. If it provides a buff for say 20 seconds like dawnbreaker, once the dawnbreaker buff ends the 1 minute timer starts. This would make it easier to deal with any player using the Oakensoul ring.

axi

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Simple solution to impact all builds is make it so that an ultimate has a 1 minute cool down. Meaning if it is a burst type Ultimate it has exactly 1 minute after it is used. If it provides a buff for say 20 seconds like dawnbreaker, once the dawnbreaker buff ends the 1 minute timer starts. This would make it easier to deal with any player using the Oakensoul ring.

What would be the point of different ultimate costs then?

celner4_ESO

axi wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Simple solution to impact all builds is make it so that an ultimate has a 1 minute cool down. Meaning if it is a burst type Ultimate it has exactly 1 minute after it is used. If it provides a buff for say 20 seconds like dawnbreaker, once the dawnbreaker buff ends the 1 minute timer starts. This would make it easier to deal with any player using the Oakensoul ring.

What would be the point of different ultimate costs then?

Ultimate number cost would be more contributory of anything using that total ultimate used to give you a buff based on that number ie Balorgh’s. Every ultimate having a minimum CD of 30sec-60sec might be helpful if they don’t want to nerf the items buffing ultimate gain or corrosives damage reduction aspect.

Wise_Will

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Simple solution to impact all builds is make it so that an ultimate has a 1 minute cool down. Meaning if it is a burst type Ultimate it has exactly 1 minute after it is used. If it provides a buff for say 20 seconds like dawnbreaker, once the dawnbreaker buff ends the 1 minute timer starts. This would make it easier to deal with any player using the Oakensoul ring.

You do realise what this would do to most PVE activities yes? Please remember the world does not only revolve around PVP.

DrSlaughtr

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Simple solution to impact all builds is make it so that an ultimate has a 1 minute cool down. Meaning if it is a burst type Ultimate it has exactly 1 minute after it is used. If it provides a buff for say 20 seconds like dawnbreaker, once the dawnbreaker buff ends the 1 minute timer starts. This would make it easier to deal with any player using the Oakensoul ring.

That's not a simple solution at all. That's burning down the house because you don't like the color of the wallpaper. Competely destroying the ultimate system to counter one poorly implemented item is not a good idea. Not to mention the fact that not everyone is using this stupid ring, whether it's because they refused to support it by buying the chapter or just uninterested in having an item do 90% of their work for them.

MEBengalsFan2001

Wise_Will wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Simple solution to impact all builds is make it so that an ultimate has a 1 minute cool down. Meaning if it is a burst type Ultimate it has exactly 1 minute after it is used. If it provides a buff for say 20 seconds like dawnbreaker, once the dawnbreaker buff ends the 1 minute timer starts. This would make it easier to deal with any player using the Oakensoul ring.

You do realise what this would do to most PVE activities yes? Please remember the world does not only revolve around PVP.

Last time I checked there are two ultimate that are available to use. In PVE you simply swap between the two. Only players this would impact would be players using oakensoul ring.

DrSlaughtr

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Wise_Will wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Simple solution to impact all builds is make it so that an ultimate has a 1 minute cool down. Meaning if it is a burst type Ultimate it has exactly 1 minute after it is used. If it provides a buff for say 20 seconds like dawnbreaker, once the dawnbreaker buff ends the 1 minute timer starts. This would make it easier to deal with any player using the Oakensoul ring.

You do realise what this would do to most PVE activities yes? Please remember the world does not only revolve around PVP.

Last time I checked there are two ultimate that are available to use. In PVE you simply swap between the two. Only players this would impact would be players using oakensoul ring.

You just said all ultimates should have a one minute cooldown, meaning you can't fire any ultimate in under a minute. Which is really silly, because there are low cost ultimates specifically made to fire more often than that.

Holycannoli

IMO Corrosive Armor should be re-worked so that it still mitigates incoming damage to 3% of your max health and damages nearby enemies with an AOE poison, but instead of augmenting your attacks it lowers the physical and spell resistance of anyone hitting you with a physical melee attack (amount to be determined but not to 0, that's ludicrous). That keeps it a truly defensive ultimate and it thematically fits the idea that the DK's armor is what is corrosive. Hitting it is gonna cause you some problems. It causes a feedback through your weapon coming in contact with that corrosive armor, corroding your own armor.

Can this game differentiate between physical melee and physical ranged attacks though? Maybe through differentiating between physical melee weapons and bows it could. I don't think bows should cause the lowered resistance feedback as they use arrows. The attacker is not touching the DK.

It should not affect the DK's own attacks. It's Corrosive Armor not Corrosive Weapon.

It should also not proc the lowered resistance vs non-physical damage, like being hit by a magicka skill, a heavy inferno attack, a molten whip etc. How can a ranged inferno magical flame attack cause corrosive armor to feedback to the caster and lower his resistance? Thematically it makes no sense. A physical melee hit from a melee weapon should be required. It's already limiting incoming damage to 3% of max health vs magicka weapons anyway.

ATomiX69

100% major heroism from oakensoul is broken = nerf corrosive.
ESO forums never fail to entertain me.

Holycannoli

ATomiX69 wrote: »

100% major heroism from oakensoul is broken = nerf corrosive.
ESO forums never fail to entertain me.

Corrosive was broken before Oakensoul, it's just that the ring is making it worse. Even in it's current nerfed state compared to how it was it's OP. Ignores 100% of armor? While severely limiting incoming damage? And it's not OP?

TechMaybeHic

Holycannoli wrote: »

ATomiX69 wrote: »

100% major heroism from oakensoul is broken = nerf corrosive.
ESO forums never fail to entertain me.

Corrosive was broken before Oakensoul, it's just that the ring is making it worse. Even in it's current nerfed state compared to how it was it's OP. Ignores 100% of armor? While severely limiting incoming damage? And it's not OP?

It was strong, but you had more time to burst one down if you avoid the DK while it was up meaning there was a counter and that's healthy. Now; they pop it, run wild, then just have to kite and turtle just a few seconds when it goes down

celner4_ESO

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

ATomiX69 wrote: »

100% major heroism from oakensoul is broken = nerf corrosive.
ESO forums never fail to entertain me.

Corrosive was broken before Oakensoul, it's just that the ring is making it worse. Even in it's current nerfed state compared to how it was it's OP. Ignores 100% of armor? While severely limiting incoming damage? And it's not OP?

It was strong, but you had more time to burst one down if you avoid the DK while it was up meaning there was a counter and that's healthy. Now; they pop it, run wild, then just have to kite and turtle just a few seconds when it goes down

This argument acts as if the problem is solely Oakensoul. Which it is not and has not been. Anyone who plays DK and isn’t mediocre knows that using corrosive gives you the ability to have a flex armor set since you don’t need to go any penetration. Meaning you can go any armor set that generates ultimate (Shalks, drakes, Arkasis etc.) whilst using ulti pots if applicable. This was doable, and a problem before Oakensoul. Oakensoul is arguably worse then some of the builds allowing for both active bars, Oakensoul is just easier to play and more easily accessible to people who need simplicity. But more deadly? No. The only reason Corrosive is a problem (I’ve posted this in previous comments but again I’m referring to Mag DK/Mag Hybrid)? No. Sure whenever you encounter any DK who don’t know what they’re doing using the ability or have a lackluster build it’s not an issue. Any DK worth their salt utilizing ulti gen making this skill a nightmare is who and what I’m referring to, which IS NOT solely Oakensoul. [snip]

You could argue that it’s an ulti gen problem not the ability itself and I’d partially agree with you. But ultimately this ability offers one of the strongest defensives (especially when not fighting in a 1vX scenario unless you are using LoS and CCing to limit hits taken during ability activation) and offering full penetration to whip ontop of getting the 3x dmg buff increase to whip which is why they are getting and have been getting 30-40k crits with it (again from DKs who know what they are doing with the class). I still believe aspects of this ability needs a rework to offer one or the other in defensive or full penetration to your DD. That by proxy would make the use of the ulti gen sets/pots less of a problem.

[edited for mild baiting]

jaws343

celner4_ESO wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

ATomiX69 wrote: »

100% major heroism from oakensoul is broken = nerf corrosive.
ESO forums never fail to entertain me.

Corrosive was broken before Oakensoul, it's just that the ring is making it worse. Even in it's current nerfed state compared to how it was it's OP. Ignores 100% of armor? While severely limiting incoming damage? And it's not OP?

It was strong, but you had more time to burst one down if you avoid the DK while it was up meaning there was a counter and that's healthy. Now; they pop it, run wild, then just have to kite and turtle just a few seconds when it goes down

This argument acts as if the problem is solely Oakensoul. Which it is not and has not been. Anyone who plays DK and isn’t mediocre knows that using corrosive gives you the ability to have a flex armor set since you don’t need to go any penetration. Meaning you can go any armor set that generates ultimate (Shalks, drakes, Arkasis etc.) whilst using ulti pots if applicable. This was doable, and a problem before Oakensoul. Oakensoul is arguably worse then some of the builds allowing for both active bars, Oakensoul is just easier to play and more easily accessible to people who need simplicity. But more deadly? No. The only reason Corrosive is a problem (I’ve posted this in previous comments but again I’m referring to Mag DK/Mag Hybrid)? No. Sure whenever you encounter any DK who don’t know what they’re doing using the ability or have a lackluster build it’s not an issue. Any DK worth their salt utilizing ulti gen making this skill a nightmare is who and what I’m referring to, which IS NOT solely Oakensoul. [snip]

That is a pretty drastic oversimplification though.

Pre-oaken, a DK running pure ult gen was sacrificing base skill damage for windows of burst damage. Outside of the ult, their skills were not great.

With Oaken, they get the tooltips of a 3 damage set build, but they can still run pure ult gen setup, and have even more uptime on Corrosive.

I literally put together an Ult Gen sorc build, that has 3 ult gen sets + Oaken, and has the same tooltips has my full damage set build. But now I can cast meteor every 14 seconds. Oaken is providing the damage increase of 2-3 sets on a build on its own.

[edited to remove quote]

celner4_ESO

jaws343 wrote: »

celner4_ESO wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

ATomiX69 wrote: »

100% major heroism from oakensoul is broken = nerf corrosive.
ESO forums never fail to entertain me.

Corrosive was broken before Oakensoul, it's just that the ring is making it worse. Even in it's current nerfed state compared to how it was it's OP. Ignores 100% of armor? While severely limiting incoming damage? And it's not OP?

It was strong, but you had more time to burst one down if you avoid the DK while it was up meaning there was a counter and that's healthy. Now; they pop it, run wild, then just have to kite and turtle just a few seconds when it goes down

This argument acts as if the problem is solely Oakensoul. Which it is not and has not been. Anyone who plays DK and isn’t mediocre knows that using corrosive gives you the ability to have a flex armor set since you don’t need to go any penetration. Meaning you can go any armor set that generates ultimate (Shalks, drakes, Arkasis etc.) whilst using ulti pots if applicable. This was doable, and a problem before Oakensoul. Oakensoul is arguably worse then some of the builds allowing for both active bars, Oakensoul is just easier to play and more easily accessible to people who need simplicity. But more deadly? No. The only reason Corrosive is a problem (I’ve posted this in previous comments but again I’m referring to Mag DK/Mag Hybrid)? No. Sure whenever you encounter any DK who don’t know what they’re doing using the ability or have a lackluster build it’s not an issue. Any DK worth their salt utilizing ulti gen making this skill a nightmare is who and what I’m referring to, which IS NOT solely Oakensoul. [snip]

That is a pretty drastic oversimplification though.

Pre-oaken, a DK running pure ult gen was sacrificing base skill damage for windows of burst damage. Outside of the ult, their skills were not great.

With Oaken, they get the tooltips of a 3 damage set build, but they can still run pure ult gen setup, and have even more uptime on Corrosive.

I literally put together an Ult Gen sorc build, that has 3 ult gen sets + Oaken, and has the same tooltips has my full damage set build. But now I can cast meteor every 14 seconds. Oaken is providing the damage increase of 2-3 sets on a build on its own.

We are talking DK, not sorc (which has many additive dmg modifiers that a DK does not) so it makes sense your tool tips will show higher base damage for the abilities themselves but not taking into account other passive utilities that aren’t inherently just base damage increase. So I think this argument is skewed not taking those things into account. I’m not saying it’s not broken. But Oakensoul is a separate additive issue. And again we are talking Corrisive Armor for DK not Sorc’s, or any other class on the Oakensoul train for that matter.

[edited to remove quote]

jaws343

celner4_ESO wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

celner4_ESO wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

ATomiX69 wrote: »

100% major heroism from oakensoul is broken = nerf corrosive.
ESO forums never fail to entertain me.

Corrosive was broken before Oakensoul, it's just that the ring is making it worse. Even in it's current nerfed state compared to how it was it's OP. Ignores 100% of armor? While severely limiting incoming damage? And it's not OP?

It was strong, but you had more time to burst one down if you avoid the DK while it was up meaning there was a counter and that's healthy. Now; they pop it, run wild, then just have to kite and turtle just a few seconds when it goes down

This argument acts as if the problem is solely Oakensoul. Which it is not and has not been. Anyone who plays DK and isn’t mediocre knows that using corrosive gives you the ability to have a flex armor set since you don’t need to go any penetration. Meaning you can go any armor set that generates ultimate (Shalks, drakes, Arkasis etc.) whilst using ulti pots if applicable. This was doable, and a problem before Oakensoul. Oakensoul is arguably worse then some of the builds allowing for both active bars, Oakensoul is just easier to play and more easily accessible to people who need simplicity. But more deadly? No. The only reason Corrosive is a problem (I’ve posted this in previous comments but again I’m referring to Mag DK/Mag Hybrid)? No. Sure whenever you encounter any DK who don’t know what they’re doing using the ability or have a lackluster build it’s not an issue. Any DK worth their salt utilizing ulti gen making this skill a nightmare is who and what I’m referring to, which IS NOT solely Oakensoul. [snip]

That is a pretty drastic oversimplification though.

Pre-oaken, a DK running pure ult gen was sacrificing base skill damage for windows of burst damage. Outside of the ult, their skills were not great.

With Oaken, they get the tooltips of a 3 damage set build, but they can still run pure ult gen setup, and have even more uptime on Corrosive.

I literally put together an Ult Gen sorc build, that has 3 ult gen sets + Oaken, and has the same tooltips has my full damage set build. But now I can cast meteor every 14 seconds. Oaken is providing the damage increase of 2-3 sets on a build on its own.

We are talking DK, not sorc (which has many additive dmg modifiers that a DK does not) so it makes sense your tool tips will show higher base damage for the abilities themselves but not taking into account other passive utilities that aren’t inherently just base damage increase. So I think this argument is skewed not taking those things into account. I’m not saying it’s not broken. But Oakensoul is a separate additive issue. And again we are talking Corrisive Armor for DK not Sorc’s, or any other class on the Oakensoul train for that matter.

Comparatively, the point still stands that running 3 ult gen sets, without Oakensoul, will have lesser damage than running the exact same 3 ult gen sets with Oaken soul. But now, you are actually running 4 ult gen sets due to Major Heorism, which, logically follows that you will have more uptime on the ult AND more damage.

The sorc point was just a practical example I was just working a build out on.

[edited to remove quote]

Urzigurumash

celner4_ESO wrote: »

We are talking DK, not sorc (which has many additive dmg modifiers that a DK does not)

And this was the original purpose of Corrosive. Both StamDK and StamSorc were limited to dealing damage with Weapon Skills and Weapon Skills only. So DK got this Ult to give them a small window where they could exceed a StamSorc's damage, since the StamSorc otherwise always dealt more damage with Weapon Skills.

This is all any of my comments in this thread were meant to reflect. It's pertinent because StamDK now finds itself in a particularly irrelevant spot, offering little that isn't better done by MagDK.

So if we're talking about revising Corrosive - yes it's OP right now, I never disagreed - this point is worth considering. From a StamDK main perspective, anyhow.

celner4_ESO

jaws343 wrote: »

celner4_ESO wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

celner4_ESO wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

ATomiX69 wrote: »

100% major heroism from oakensoul is broken = nerf corrosive.
ESO forums never fail to entertain me.

Corrosive was broken before Oakensoul, it's just that the ring is making it worse. Even in it's current nerfed state compared to how it was it's OP. Ignores 100% of armor? While severely limiting incoming damage? And it's not OP?

It was strong, but you had more time to burst one down if you avoid the DK while it was up meaning there was a counter and that's healthy. Now; they pop it, run wild, then just have to kite and turtle just a few seconds when it goes down

This argument acts as if the problem is solely Oakensoul. Which it is not and has not been. Anyone who plays DK and isn’t mediocre knows that using corrosive gives you the ability to have a flex armor set since you don’t need to go any penetration. Meaning you can go any armor set that generates ultimate (Shalks, drakes, Arkasis etc.) whilst using ulti pots if applicable. This was doable, and a problem before Oakensoul. Oakensoul is arguably worse then some of the builds allowing for both active bars, Oakensoul is just easier to play and more easily accessible to people who need simplicity. But more deadly? No. The only reason Corrosive is a problem (I’ve posted this in previous comments but again I’m referring to Mag DK/Mag Hybrid)? No. Sure whenever you encounter any DK who don’t know what they’re doing using the ability or have a lackluster build it’s not an issue. Any DK worth their salt utilizing ulti gen making this skill a nightmare is who and what I’m referring to, which IS NOT solely Oakensoul. [snip]

That is a pretty drastic oversimplification though.

Pre-oaken, a DK running pure ult gen was sacrificing base skill damage for windows of burst damage. Outside of the ult, their skills were not great.

With Oaken, they get the tooltips of a 3 damage set build, but they can still run pure ult gen setup, and have even more uptime on Corrosive.

I literally put together an Ult Gen sorc build, that has 3 ult gen sets + Oaken, and has the same tooltips has my full damage set build. But now I can cast meteor every 14 seconds. Oaken is providing the damage increase of 2-3 sets on a build on its own.

We are talking DK, not sorc (which has many additive dmg modifiers that a DK does not) so it makes sense your tool tips will show higher base damage for the abilities themselves but not taking into account other passive utilities that aren’t inherently just base damage increase. So I think this argument is skewed not taking those things into account. I’m not saying it’s not broken. But Oakensoul is a separate additive issue. And again we are talking Corrisive Armor for DK not Sorc’s, or any other class on the Oakensoul train for that matter.

Comparatively, the point still stands that running 3 ult gen sets, without Oakensoul, will have lesser damage than running the exact same 3 ult gen sets with Oaken soul. But now, you are actually running 4 ult gen sets due to Major Heorism, which, logically follows that you will have more uptime on the ult AND more damage.

The sorc point was just a practical example I was just working a build out on.

I did not say I would be using 3 ulti gen sets, and you most certainly do not need to run 3 ulti gen sets [snip]. When I said you have a flex spot for ulti gen that’s 1 armor set. And you can add to that also using ulti gen pots, but you would not be using 3 ulti gen sets to get the high uptime on Corrosive, and you most certainly don’t need to either to keep a 15-25sec down time on it.

[edited for rude/insulting comment & to remove quote]

Holycannoli

celner4_ESO wrote: »

You could argue that it’s an ulti gen problem not the ability itself and I’d partially agree with you. But ultimately this ability offers one of the strongest defensives (especially when not fighting in a 1vX scenario unless you are using LoS and CCing to limit hits taken during ability activation) and offering complete penetration to whip getting the 3x dmg increase which is why they are getting and have been getting 30-40k crits with it (again from DKs who know what they are doing with the class). I still believe aspects of this ability needs a rework to offer one or the other in defensive or full penetration to your DD. That by proxy would make the use of the ulti gen sets/pots less of a problem.

Agreed, which is why I said the skill is Corrosive Armor not Corrosive Weapon.

I wouldn't mind the two morphs being Magma Shell and Corrosive Weapon - one gives great defense, one gives great offense. I'd probably choose Corrosive on my both my stam and mag DKs but the choice would be a lot more meaningful wouldn't it?

xylena_lazarow

The best counter to Corrosive is DoT pressure, but most DoT abilities are pretty bad or require too high a build investment to be good, so buffing the counterplay to Corrosive might be a better solution than nerfing it. Bow Sorc or DoT DK are both pretty good against Corrosive DK if you can land your hits while kiting around their attempts to rush you with whip spam.

Extinct_Solo_Player

This is why corrosive should be added to the exception of only scaling from stam..... But really, the mythic oakensoul and molten whip itself need adjustment.

Hayblinkin

divnyi wrote: »

It's the worst of 3 DK ultimates IMO. Only good because ulti regens during ultimate duration, unlike ulti transformations, so the best ulti for ultigain builds.

This is how you fix Corrosive. Make it so there is no ultigen during uptime. The issue right now is that there are ultigen DKs with a 75% uptime on Corrosive. 12 seconds is enough time with oakensoul + other ultigen methods to almost achieve full ulti and there is not enough time in between to make the kill on a better player.

FTR I main stamDK and magSORC in PvP. I use leap. It's more fun, gap closes, and doesn't feel like cheese.

Another possible fix for Corrosive is making it give a flat number of penetration instead of max. Make it a more reasonable level of offesnsive potential.

Tommy_The_Gun

Dk or not (insert any other class / skill line) Imho no ability in game should give incredible survivability & damage all in one package, without having at least a serious drawback build in.

Corrosive Armor gives you both. Great damage potential, as you pretty much don't need to invest anything into penetration (strongest offensive stat in the game), as you simply passively can ignore the armour that your target has. On top of that it gives you one of the strongest damage mitigation buff in the game, that is a unique buff - meaning that it can stack with other damage reduction sources.

Now, I am not expert, but I have a feeling that if for example, a Nightblade had the "ignore Physical and Spell Resistance" part on Incap or other class ultimate (and just that, nothing else, without any other buff or damage reduction ) - then it would either be nerfed on PTS and never reach live server, or would be nerfed immediately in a hot fix. It is not a rocket since. Corrosive is overloaded.

ninjagank wrote: »

Oak is the issue. Not corrosive.

Not necessarily. Corrosive was being um.... "pointed out" (that it is unbalanced) even before we get Oakensoul with Heroism, and huge ultigen DK builds existed - they were just using different means / sets to get that ult fasti.

Oakensoul ring imho behaves kinda like a catalyst or "power multiplier". If we have a skill or ultimate that has a certain power level - then with Oaken, it has 2x of that power. So basically what Oaken is doing, is that it "unfolds the cards".

It kinda shows how huge disparity there is between skills / ultimate and classes & lack of balance in general. Some skills are total trash, while others are on a god-like level.