Overland Content Feedback Thread

colossalvoids

TaSheen wrote: »

I don't have any problem being immersed in ESO and it's quests.

Kinda envy of this as still wasn't able to gather myself to finish last chapter's MQ because how unengaging ESO is currently, both gameplay and story wise.

TaSheen

No game can be everything for everyone....

AlexanderDeLarge

Perhaps but when you have footage of a player AT LEVEL 3 NO STATS ALLOCATED, completely naked, standing in front of a bear attacking and surviving for a minute and a half AFKing, there's a problem. This is ridiculous.
https://youtu.be/CLYwxXFqEZk

Some sort of difficulty scaling/debuff mechanism for those who want it is low hanging fruit.

Damico

Love the quest lines, hate the anti-climactic one shot endings

Yuji34

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

Perhaps but when you have footage of a player AT LEVEL 3 NO STATS ALLOCATED, completely naked, standing in front of a bear attacking and surviving for a minute and a half AFKing, there's a problem. This is ridiculous.
https://youtu.be/CLYwxXFqEZk

Some sort of difficulty scaling/debuff mechanism for those who want it is low hanging fruit.

THANKS

SilverBride

It is not feasible to go back and create separate versions of 10 years worth of zones and quests and redo every mob to have more mechanics and be more difficult for content that can only be done once per character. Especially when everything else in the game is already challenging content.

The only logical option would be some kind of debuff.

Blackbird_V

SilverBride wrote: »

It is not feasible to go back and create separate versions of 10 years worth of zones and quests and redo every mob to have more mechanics and be more difficult for content that can only be done once per character. Especially when everything else in the game is already challenging content.

The only logical option would be some kind of debuff.

Nothing changed with One-Tamriel other than introducing scaling on characters and removing zones that had different enemy levels. That imo was a mistake as it removes feel of progression.

All ZoS would have to to is recalculate the scaling so it's far more in favour of the enemies rather than players. I'd honestly be happy with just an increase in HP and damage, similar to the difficulty of Veteran Vateshran Hollows enemies in 2nd stage. Idc about extra mechanics, some mobs do technically have them, but they die so fast you don't see them, or it does so little damage you just don't care.

---

Drammanoth

Cyclically every other day or at weekdays:

For 12 hours make 1-2 vanilla World Bosses 10x stronger, add some extra skills. This would make players flock to the region and team up to beat the boss.

Collect Namira's Shards as a currency to buy some upgraded Overland gear, or new gear BUT - light / medium / heavy per aliance, not per region.

There - harder overland and reviving the old zones.

(a repost to stick to the Overland topic)

ESO_player123

Drammanoth wrote: »

Cyclically every other day or at weekdays:

For 12 hours make 1-2 vanilla World Bosses 10x stronger, add some extra skills. This would make players flock to the region and team up to beat the boss.

Collect Namira's Shards as a currency to buy some upgraded Overland gear, or new gear BUT - light / medium / heavy per aliance, not per region.

There - harder overland and reviving the old zones.

(a repost to stick to the Overland topic)

It would revive the old zones for a time, sure. But I doubt it would be the answer for harder overland since the buffed bosses will be stomped by hordes of players farming the new proposed currency. The hardest thing will be to be quick enough to land a blow strong enough to get the loot. Same as with the bosses during events.

KapiteinBoterham

It's a disservice to the writing of the quests to have their bosses have so little HP, it's laughable. If you were to just increase their HP a little there would be no problems. Neither would a simple difficulty slider like in Oblivion/Skyrim be too bad, just a health/damage increase or something.

I can't remember if i ever actually needed to take a potion or eat a better food beforehand. It's such a slap in the face to the RPG gaming scene and turns a lot of new players off.

LunaFlora

KapiteinBoterham wrote: »

It's a disservice to the writing of the quests to have their bosses have so little HP, it's laughable. If you were to just increase their HP a little there would be no problems. Neither would a simple difficulty slider like in Oblivion/Skyrim be too bad, just a health/damage increase or something.

I can't remember if i ever actually needed to take a potion or eat a better food beforehand. It's such a slap in the face to the RPG gaming scene and turns a lot of new players off.

i couldn't kill all story bosses as a new player some years ago and i do drink potions in dlc story boss fights, like vaermina.

a health and damage increase for monsters could also turn people away, fights would just take longer and sometimes even be boring.
there would be problems.

not everyone is the same of course so not everyone needs a super challenging fight in a zone story from a roleplaying game(rpg).
lots of people play rpgs like Skyrim on the lowest difficulty, that's why we have the option for it in single player games.

if there was a way to have a slider that gives people debuffs that'd be useful,
but increasing health and damage from monsters wouldn't mean there would be no problems as it would cause more problems for less able or experienced players.

Drammanoth

LunaFlora wrote: »

KapiteinBoterham wrote: »

It's a disservice to the writing of the quests to have their bosses have so little HP, it's laughable. If you were to just increase their HP a little there would be no problems. Neither would a simple difficulty slider like in Oblivion/Skyrim be too bad, just a health/damage increase or something.

I can't remember if i ever actually needed to take a potion or eat a better food beforehand. It's such a slap in the face to the RPG gaming scene and turns a lot of new players off.

(...)a health and damage increase for monsters could also turn people away, fights would just take longer and sometimes even be boring.
there would be problems. (...)

Yet not all people want to do trials and wait for others to accept their roles. "Don't want a trial? Too weak? Not sure of your skill setup? Team up with guildies or randoms and get to the WB" Teaming up for a WB in this specific case would actually be mandatory.

But, this concern, @LunaFlora is valid. Some people like the fact that Overland is easy. Because it is fast.

LunaFlora

Drammanoth wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

KapiteinBoterham wrote: »

It's a disservice to the writing of the quests to have their bosses have so little HP, it's laughable. If you were to just increase their HP a little there would be no problems. Neither would a simple difficulty slider like in Oblivion/Skyrim be too bad, just a health/damage increase or something.

I can't remember if i ever actually needed to take a potion or eat a better food beforehand. It's such a slap in the face to the RPG gaming scene and turns a lot of new players off.

(...)a health and damage increase for monsters could also turn people away, fights would just take longer and sometimes even be boring.
there would be problems. (...)

Yet not all people want to do trials and wait for others to accept their roles. "Don't want a trial? Too weak? Not sure of your skill setup? Team up with guildies or randoms and get to the WB" Teaming up for a WB in this specific case would actually be mandatory.

But, this concern, @LunaFlora is valid. Some people like the fact that Overland is easy. Because it is fast.

yea i uh agree.
I love that most of overland is easy.

TaSheen

Eh, I'm not much into "fast" (my first CP 160 took me almost two years). I am also not into combat. So overland suits me for that reason. And I still can't kill story bosses without a lot of trying - because while it's really nice of the devs to keep giving us "helpers" in the NPCs, with the kind of lag I have, I am seldom able to use the hotkey while the "helper" is up.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

This is kind of an amalgam of posts I had in a closed thread about this subject.

I wouldn't find an across the board increase in open world mob or boss hardness fun. I can hold my own in normal level instanced content. I am probably middle of the road in that I can solo dolems/geysers, some world bosses and many public dungeon bosses when I want to spend the time it takes to complete them. I can't solo dragons, harrowstorms or wandering bosses nor do I feel the need to be able to and have no plans of ever trying to get to that level.

When I'm in the open world doing other things I don't want to have spend all of my time fighting mobs with high health while I am doing other things. Today I am not forced into long fights because I find an antiquities lead that happens to be sitting in the aggro zone of a mob. I also don't want to be forced to wait for other players on content I can complete today. While not perfect I think current open world combat is reasonably balanced for beginners to your average players like me. Things aren't so hard as to chase away new players and the mobs can be readily dispatched by higher level players when they get in the way of other activities such as antiquities/gathering/etc.

I understand that higher level players would like more challenge and have no issue with that. However if ZOS decides to do something then it needs to be controlled at an individual player level and not be an across the board change. I don't really care how it is accomplished as long as it only affects those players that want to opt in and the default is to opt out.


@ZOS_Kevin It would be a good thing if when ZOS closes forum posts as duplicates that the moderators merge its conversations into the target post. A lot of conversations and their context are lost in the master thread because of this. An example of this is a recently closed conversation here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/649468/new-dlc-overland-too-dangerous/p1

Four_Fingers

Uh, isn't this the "master" thread about the subject as designated by the mods?

Alinhbo_Tyaka

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Uh, isn't this the "master" thread about the subject as designated by the mods?

Yes this is the master thread and as I said the closed thread I referenced should be merged with it so its conversations and context are not lost. This happens on many threads where ZOS closes them in favor of another and their conversations get lost because the threads are not merged.

Warhawke_80

KapiteinBoterham wrote: »

It's a disservice to the writing of the quests to have their bosses have so little HP, it's laughable. If you were to just increase their HP a little there would be no problems. Neither would a simple difficulty slider like in Oblivion/Skyrim be too bad, just a health/damage increase or something.

I can't remember if i ever actually needed to take a potion or eat a better food beforehand. It's such a slap in the face to the RPG gaming scene and turns a lot of new players off.

That is an existential argument...one might counter that it is a disservice to all of the players that are use to the current difficulty to go back and change ten years of content because a handful of Trial Players thinks it's too easy.


If ZoS did that the forums would be flooded with players complaining...what would we tell them? To suck it up and git gud?

My point is...your assertion just dosen't take in account the reality of the situation.

Braffin

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

KapiteinBoterham wrote: »

It's a disservice to the writing of the quests to have their bosses have so little HP, it's laughable. If you were to just increase their HP a little there would be no problems. Neither would a simple difficulty slider like in Oblivion/Skyrim be too bad, just a health/damage increase or something.

I can't remember if i ever actually needed to take a potion or eat a better food beforehand. It's such a slap in the face to the RPG gaming scene and turns a lot of new players off.

That is an existential argument...one might counter that it is a disservice to all of the players that are use to the current difficulty to go back and change ten years of content because a handful of Trial Players thinks it's too easy.


If ZoS did that the forums would be flooded with players complaining...what would we tell them? To suck it up and git gud?

My point is...your assertion just dosen't take in account the reality of the situation.

A handful of trial players? No, not really. A lot of people aren't satisfied with the current situation regarding overland, while most of them aren't "trial players".

Trying to devalue other peoples arguments by pretending they were only a small minority without any proof and against all probability is just dishonest framing.

Zos already acknowledged several times, that a lot of people are asking for changes regarding overland difficulty. This very thread, as well as the implementation of IA (instead of overland story) and nymics are proof for this.

Besides that: Which issue do you have with the implementation of difficulty sliders or other options to make overland more difficult for those interested in it?

What does that take away from you?

Exactly, absolutely nothing.

SilverBride

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Uh, isn't this the "master" thread about the subject as designated by the mods?

Yes this is the master thread and as I said the closed thread I referenced should be merged with it so its conversations and context are not lost. This happens on many threads where ZOS closes them in favor of another and their conversations get lost because the threads are not merged.

After 2 years and 5,629 posts everything that could possibly be said about this has been said... multiple times by multiple players. Merging other threads to this one will not have any added benefit, in my opinion.

KapiteinBoterham

Don't be intimidated by a demand for "higher difficulty", what people actually mean is "more engagement". This game has so many systems to make your character stronger and the only time you have to use it is for DLC Veteran dungeons and a handful of Trials.

Never have i mentioned regular mobs need a difficulty change im fine with 2-hitting a skeever or a regular bandit. The quest related bosses desperately need a HP boost, this is a fact and no amount of reasoning can change that.

Most bosses (not regular mobs) can't even finish their story-related voicelines or cast their unique abilities because they die so fast. Dont even get me started with killing them together with another player, youre lucky to get a hit in... The bosses just stand there and do nothing most of the time; There is no gameplay/difficulty at all!

Somewhere during the "nerf the game so people don't get discouraged" someone forgot check the quest bosses because it takes a lot of time to reach such a point in the game for testing purposes.

Just like every other complaint about this game i have lost all faith that this is ever going to be properly adressed and i am just here to do my say. Hope you guys enjoy the game as much a possible because everytime me and a lot of other players are near the end of a quest and have to fight the big bad guy they just feel disappointed.

There are a lot of disappointing things in life and i hope these quest bosses of ESO can someday no longer be a part of that. The day that i will lose more than 10% of my HP and might have to use a potion will be an exciting day! And please no more one-shot overland enemies it's just another slap in the face. Like: "You wanted difficulty right?! Here is a seeker enemy that can one shot you!"

spartaxoxo

KapiteinBoterham wrote: »

. The quest related bosses desperately need a HP boost, this is a fact and no amount of reasoning can change that.

It's an opinion. I personally would rather see a slider, or a challenge banner on story bosses, than a blanket HP boost on the story bosses. There's people that already struggle on them. I don't. A slider lets us both have the experience we want and/or need to complete the content. Changing the mob doesn't.

KapiteinBoterham

So all the voiceline recordings and special attack are just easter eggs for people that only light attack (aka go easy on) the quest bosses?

I refuse to believe this is a matter of opinion. The low HP of these quest bosses probably is an oversight by ZOS created during the one tamriel update that has developed into players thinking the entirety of overland content is too easy. These quest bosses are not "too easy", theyre simply broken.

If anyone with any power over this is reading this just increase the quest bosses HP according to their importance story-wise, trust me bro.

TaSheen

KapiteinBoterham wrote: »

So all the voiceline recordings and special attack are just easter eggs for people that only light attack (aka go easy on) the quest bosses?

I refuse to believe this is a matter of opinion. The low HP of these quest bosses probably is an oversight by ZOS created during the one tamriel update that has developed into players thinking the entirety of overland content is too easy. These quest bosses are not "too easy", theyre simply broken.

If anyone with any power over this is reading this just increase the quest bosses HP according to their importance story-wise, trust me bro.

I repeat, I already can't kill them (sometimes at all, other times it just takes me over and over trying and trying - and occasionally I get lucky....) I still haven't managed what'shisname from Galen....

KapiteinBoterham

Have you tried increasing your level/gear/skills/knowledge of the game like you would in any other (MMO)RPG?

Just to be clear; I'm talking about story/quest bosses NOT worldbosses. I also just made this thread to put the focus on the true problem and not generalize the entire overland content (which's difficulty is mostly fine). If you would like to shift the focus to the real problem i would appreciate a reply.

spartaxoxo

KapiteinBoterham wrote: »

I refuse to believe this is a matter of opinion.

Well, it is. Opinions aren't facts even when you have a good reason for believing them. How much HP is desirable is personal tastes. Some people want to melt bosses. And some people already don't melt those bosses. Not everyone is at the same power level nor does everyone want the same experience.

KapiteinBoterham wrote: »

Have you tried increasing your level/gear/skills/knowledge of the game like you would in any other (MMO)RPG?

All RPGs have tutorial content that anyone can beat. The story mode is beginner content meant for everyone. Nobody should have to get good to do them. Currently they don't. A slider like the one in LOTRO ensures you can't just kill the bosses that fast if you're using it, without affecting other players.

I agree there needs to be a way to increase the difficulty. I disagree this should come in the form of blanket buffs.

TaSheen

Galen's is a story/quest boss. So is Vandacia - he took me nearly a month of trying over and over. I have decent overland and crafted gear. The only characters I do story quest on are my CP 160+ girls.

As I pointed out earlier, my ping is very high as the only connection I have (other than dialup) is satellite. Ping averages 750 ms on a GOOD day.... most of the time it's 999+. I'm old, my reflexes are not good, and twitchy combat as in this game was never anything I was really interested in (or good at). As for game knowledge, I've been playing since 2017.... I can, on a good day, do a decent rotation, but actually I now do better with my mains (wardens) using Oakensoul.

The major issue is that I usually don't manage to use the "helper" things (like the amulet when facing Molag Bal, or Abnur's shield circle against whatever the dragon's name was, the Ambitions in Blackwood, or whatever it was with the Ascendant Magus) because high ping/lag means I'm "late" hitting the hotkey.

Every story boss (the ones I've actually managed to kill) has taken me days and days of repeating the fight, trying to get in synch with the hotkey.... By this time, I'm pretty sure I'll never finish another quest in toto. By the time I got through the Ascendant Magus, I couldn't uncramp my fingers and wrists without soaking them in a sinkful of hot water.

It's okay though really - I have other things I enjoy, and I can just pretend to myself that I did the whole bit. The rewards are really never anything I'm much interested in anyway. But it's fallacious to say "everyone can blow by the story bosses they're so easy" - because I can't.

In fact.... I had to have a friend help me with the undead dragon down the mine.... She knew I had bad lag, but she was pretty surprised at just how bad it looked from "outside"!

KapiteinBoterham

"The story mode is beginner content": Totally agree!

"Nobody should have to get good to do them": All i am asking is just a little bit more HP so the more loyal players can experience the illusion of defeating a big bad evil guy. Nobody has to "get good"; maybe spend a couple of extra seconds fighting the boss (who then has the time to deliver voice lines and cool/fun gameplay mechanics).

"LOTRO slider" This would take a lot of effort and resources, simply adding some HP would require less and has a higher chance of actually being implemented by the devs. Sometime you have to keep things simple to make them appealing.

I think i've made my point clear enough now. If there are any concerns feel free to reply in the thread i made focussing on just these specific bosses.

erdYrrson

KapiteinBoterham wrote: »

[...]All i am asking is just a little bit more HP so the more loyal players can experience the illusion of defeating a big bad evil guy. [...]

"the more loyal players"

Not really sure what you are trying to say here.

TaSheen

erdYrrson wrote: »

KapiteinBoterham wrote: »

[...]All i am asking is just a little bit more HP so the more loyal players can experience the illusion of defeating a big bad evil guy. [...]

"the more loyal players"

Not really sure what you are trying to say here.

Yeah. I consider myself a loyal player - mid-2017 join date, 3 accounts subbed all the time.... I'd say that's about as loyal as it gets?