Trader swap issue - EU server

anitajoneb17_ESO

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

All of my guilds are just fine thanks, because fake trolls like you aren't in it. The only one whining in this thread is you.

If your guilds are fine, what's the issue ?
If it's ZOS' job to calculate the duplicated gold, then what are you complaining that it's so hard to track down ? I explained how to calculate it the easy way, but if you don't want to, fine, that's up to you. But stop claiming that it is not doable or too complicated.
And, just on a side note : you do not know whether I'm in one of your guilds or not.

Arrodisia

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

All of my guilds are just fine thanks, because fake trolls like you aren't in it. The only one whining in this thread is you.

If your guilds are fine, what's the issue ?
If it's ZOS' job to calculate the duplicated gold, then what are you complaining that it's so hard to track down ? I explained how to calculate it the easy way, but if you don't want to, fine, that's up to you. But stop claiming that it is not doable or too complicated.
And, just on a side note : you do not know whether I'm in one of your guilds or not.

Your way to calculate in this situation is illogical along with 99% of your other remarks in this forum. As I said before we can only approximate, if we made multiple different bids. Something within you is malfunctioning, which is more and more obvious from every statement you make. ZOS makes mistakes like everyone else in the world. Of course, we should question if they'll get the amounts right. You using snips of conversation to attempt to skew the topic won't change that. It just shows your lack of courage and intelligence. Btw, you don't play the game enough to be in any of my guilds. You're always in the forums, and just trolling everyone who tries to be patient with you. Everyone knows what you're all about already. So, you can stop wasting our time here already. I lmao at this post of yours, because you just lost your last shread of sanity within it. Good luck with that, and please stop bugging me with your nonsense.

anitajoneb17_ESO

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

As I said before we can only approximate, if we made multiple different bids.

And you can repeat it as often as you want, it's still factually wrong. You CAN make a exact calculation. Quickly and EASILY. You just don't want to.

PS : I like the way you pile up insult upon insult upon insult. You could learn to debate politely instead, but you're funny.

Tandor

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Ecstatica wrote: »

Everyone talking about a rollback, I think we should be more concerned that Sunday is approaching again and as nothing has been addressed, done or changed, surely it's entirely plausible that the exact same thing is going to happen again.

Which is just another reason a rollback makes sense.

If they can't fix the duped gold after one weekend what chance after two?

And now people know what the bug does how many people are setting up "dump accounts" to offload deliberately exploited gold so they can drip feed it into their real accounts and not get caught?

If people think the economy is borked now, after an accidental exploit, imagine how borked it will be when hundreds of players start deliberately exploiting that bug.


All The Best

So you appear to be suggesting that we should have a rollback now, everyone losing 4 or 5 days progress, and then (because you don't think there's much chance of it being fixed this weekend) we should have another rollback next week. Ridiculous. Not going to happen.

Arrodisia

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

As I said before we can only approximate, if we made multiple different bids.

And you can repeat it as often as you want, it's still factually wrong. You CAN make a exact calculation.

PS : I like the way you pile up insult upon insult upon insult. You could learn to debate politely instead, but you're funny.

You insulted the GMs here, and made accusations that weren't true. Don't cry about us telling the truth and defending ourselves now. Please stop bothering me. I have no time for your nonsense.

anitajoneb17_ESO

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

You insulted the GMs here. Don't cry about us defending ourselves now. Please stop bothering me. I have no time for your nonsense.

I haven't insulted anyone. You're lying.
Oh, and, fyi, you're free to not answer to me anymore.

Arrodisia

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

You insulted the GMs here. Don't cry about us defending ourselves now. Please stop bothering me. I have no time for your nonsense.

I haven't insulted anyone. You're lying.
Oh, and, fyi, you're free to not answer to me anymore.

You most certainly did insult and made false accusations. Telling someone they are lying is an insult as well, maybe you didn't learn that growing up. Since we aren't lying, that makes you the one who's actually just assuming like you always do. Assumptions aren't the truth. You're just trolling as you usually do. I do debate politely. Consider yourself ignored. Have fun trolling someone else.
Cheers

anitajoneb17_ESO

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

You most certainly did insult and made false accusations. Telling someone they are lying is an insult as well, maybe you didn't learn that growing up. Since we aren't lying, that makes you the one who's actually just assuming like you always do. Assumptions aren't the truth. You're just trolling as you usually do. Consider yourself ignored. Have fun trolling someone else.

I am NOT trolling.
I'm just not buying your whining that "you don't remember how much you've bid". Bidding decisions are a big part of managing a trading guild, so of course, you always remember how much you've bid.
Especially upon the implementation of a new system like multibidding, which impacts the bidding strategy to a great extent, and all guilds are experimenting and testing, of course, every bidder remembers what they've bid.
Everyone with half a brain can see that.
And if I see people lying, I tell them so. That's not being impolite, that's simply not accepting to be taken for an idiot.

Moonsorrow

agegarton wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

All gm & officers of those trade guilds who did get duplicate gold and spent it to buy markets half empty out of all valuable materials, consumables and gear to launder it and to later up the prices to make even more gold should get a permanent BAN.

No need to explain, they ruined the whole economy. Exploited error in code = TOS violation. One that affects our whole EU server and makes finding even some simple materials really hard. Playing has become frustrating.

Been really bad experience the last days, lots of toxicity because of it. Need strict punishments so people remember next time and really think before exploiting.

I know there are mostly honest trade guild leaders, but.. even reading this thread, couple clear cases can be seen who are defending the ones who went to spent the exploited gold and say there should not be punishments. Tells a lot. Scared because might end up without their account.

We need permanent bans for those who exploited the duplicate gold. No other choice. I wish ZOS will be strict on this issue. We the majority of players who have to "live" with this economy will support heavy punishments so let that Volendrung hit hard on all exploiters since they made our daily playing a lot less fun.

You patently do not know what you’re talking about. The ignorance of your post is staggering. I suggest you read up on the issue, or STFU.

Ignorance? Your angry answer only suggests one thing.. you happen to be a trade guild owner or officer who went to spend duplicated gold, meaning exploiting a bug?

Exploiting bugs is against the ToS and should be punished, it is that simple.

I know a lot about this issue, i know that at PC EU already some big trade guilds were disbanded and then started over again with a different leader/ different account.

One can see this thing affecting many things for players. Gold was created from nothing, some people used it to buy all the valuable stuff they could and then moved them around.

If one is a GM or officer and did get "free gold" and not spend it and kept it in bank, they did nothing wrong. But if someone went to spend that gold.. then yes, BAN them HARD.

Anyone defending exploiters here usually is a mark of them just fearing punishment and try to get it to sound like a small thing that did no one any harm.

Titansteele

When you two get married can I attend the wedding please?

chess1ukb16_ESO

Titansteele wrote: »

When you two get married can I attend the wedding please?

thanks for the laughs buddy! hahaha

Mathius_Mordred

Titansteele wrote: »

When you two get married can I attend the wedding please?

Haha right on, what a pair.

Guys, stop bickering. anitajoneb17_ESO please accept that whether "you're not buying the idea that people don't know how much they bid" is irrelevant. Many don't, they have a rough idea like me but we play this game for fun not because we are closet fantasist bookkeepers!

ZOS messed this up, not us, not anyone on this forum or in-game, ZOS, whether through bad coding, poor server performance or sheer bad luck, it's not our friggin fault. It's up to ZOS to tell us what they intend to do, and when they intend to do it, so we can all get back to running our guilds and playing the damn game.

Oh and by the way @ZOS_GinaBruno I was about to purchase 21000 crowns last night, but I didn't because I don't know what the ramifications of your corrective action are going to be. This screw-up and ongoing lack of communication is now costing your company ACTUAL money. not imaginary pixel economics but real dollars/pound/euros. So please get back to us by COP and let us know what is going to happen so we can continue to play this wonderful game.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Haha right on, what a pair.

The point wasn't to make you guys laugh, but if we did, that's all good

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Guys, stop bickering. anitajoneb17_ESO please accept that whether "you're not buying the idea that people don't know how much they bid" is irrelevant. Many don't, they have a rough idea like me but we play this game for fun not because we are closet fantasist bookkeepers!

It is relevant if people use this as an excuse for spending the extra gold pretexting they didn't know what was genuinely theirs and what wasn't. I accept the notion of "rough idea", but then, you also have a rough idea what's available to you for spending and what's not.
Initially, I just intended to show people that they do not need to know which refund belongs to which bid and what trader they were supposed to win in order to calculate their "extra" gold.

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

ZOS messed this up, not us, not anyone on this forum or in-game, ZOS, whether through bad coding, poor server performance or sheer bad luck, it's not our friggin fault. It's up to ZOS to tell us what they intend to do, and when they intend to do it, so we can all get back to running our guilds and playing the damn game.

I agree on all this.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Ecstatica wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Which is just another reason a rollback makes sense.

To fix this problem, a rollback is the only thing that makes sense. But that ship has sailed - it would create a million more problems - achievements people have got, stuff they've sold or bought, entire zones cleared on characters, psijic skills ground out, guilds that have recruited members etc etc (the list goes on). It simply isn't feasible anymore.

This Sunday is going to be crazy.

Of course it is feasible.

ZoS just need to have enough professional integrity to do it - and we all know they have almost none of that at all.


All The Best

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Tandor wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Ecstatica wrote: »

Everyone talking about a rollback, I think we should be more concerned that Sunday is approaching again and as nothing has been addressed, done or changed, surely it's entirely plausible that the exact same thing is going to happen again.

Which is just another reason a rollback makes sense.

If they can't fix the duped gold after one weekend what chance after two?

And now people know what the bug does how many people are setting up "dump accounts" to offload deliberately exploited gold so they can drip feed it into their real accounts and not get caught?

If people think the economy is borked now, after an accidental exploit, imagine how borked it will be when hundreds of players start deliberately exploiting that bug.


All The Best

So you appear to be suggesting that we should have a rollback now, everyone losing 4 or 5 days progress, and then (because you don't think there's much chance of it being fixed this weekend) we should have another rollback next week. Ridiculous. Not going to happen.

Er no.

If we roll back to BEFORE the patch that caused the problems then the problems won't reoccur next Sunday because that patch content will not be live.

Jeez, did IQs drop suddenly? I shouldn't need to explain that.



All The Best

anitajoneb17_ESO

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

ZoS just need to have enough professional integrity to do it - and we all know they have almost none of that at all.

What does erasing the progress of million innocent players that have nothing to do with this bug nor with trading, have to do with ZOS' professional integrity ? Don't you think those players deserve some respect, too ?

And what about the real-currency transactions that have taken place in those 4 days ? Subscriptions, crown purchases, etc ? Do you think ZOS can "easily" rollback Paypal, credit cards, etc.. ? and should do it ? Waiting for people to patiently buy all the stuff again ?
Don't you see the intrications of a 4-DAY rollback ? Do you think it's worth engaging for a couple of billions fake currency injected into a virtual gaming space ?

Rollback isn't going to happen - for the simple reason that it is impossible. Too late.

But maybe it's a misunderstanding here and you're simply talking about reversing the patch ?
Well, the thing is, it was a major update, including 2 new dungeons, so I don't think that's realistic either.

Moonsorrow

People who defend spending duplicated gold from a bug is exactly the same as the people who did defend abusing the bug that you could do things like Asylum with just Snipe and boss was unable to fight back. "But its ZOS fault for allowing it to happen...". And people did get bans from that. Both are very clear examples of abusing a bug to a benefit.

And in the trader thing it is even worse because it affects the whole market and thus other players also. You can be sure there are now huge stockpiles of valuable mats and items moved other accounts for later use.. to make even more gold out of it.

In the "Snipe exploit" people tried to defend themselves with the same "but we did not know this was wrong.." and got banned. Amuses me that some try the same tactic again for their defense. Playing dumb will not work.

But sure, do keep being aggressive towards all who want punishments to happen. Same was then with the Snipe exploit.

And to say it again, those who got extra gold and did not go spending it did nothing wrong. But exploiters who did go spend should be permanently banned and become examples of swift and hard justice and the gold tracked and deleted. It is the right thing to do.

There really are no excuses. Everyone reading those omegalul excuses have seen same ones every time an exploit happens. We have seen way too many times all the "but it is a little thing that does no harm.." and "everyone did it!" and "i did not know/remember.." and "this is ZOS fault, so what if i bought free houses and half of Dreugh Waxes and Tempering Alloys from market?!".

Atleast make it entertaining, same old excuses to exploiting are so boring already. Come up with something new atleast, eh?

ZOS does know that the majority of people support heavy punishments on this issue that affects our playing experience. And new trade guild owners and officers will take the place of the corrupt ones that get banned. No one will miss exploiters.

Tandor

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Ecstatica wrote: »

Everyone talking about a rollback, I think we should be more concerned that Sunday is approaching again and as nothing has been addressed, done or changed, surely it's entirely plausible that the exact same thing is going to happen again.

Which is just another reason a rollback makes sense.

If they can't fix the duped gold after one weekend what chance after two?

And now people know what the bug does how many people are setting up "dump accounts" to offload deliberately exploited gold so they can drip feed it into their real accounts and not get caught?

If people think the economy is borked now, after an accidental exploit, imagine how borked it will be when hundreds of players start deliberately exploiting that bug.


All The Best

So you appear to be suggesting that we should have a rollback now, everyone losing 4 or 5 days progress, and then (because you don't think there's much chance of it being fixed this weekend) we should have another rollback next week. Ridiculous. Not going to happen.

Er no.

If we roll back to BEFORE the patch that caused the problems then the problems won't reoccur next Sunday because that patch content will not be live.

Jeez, did IQs drop suddenly? I shouldn't need to explain that.

So you want to roll back everyone's progress throughout the game since early on the 9th August when the patch was installed, that's even crazier. Good luck convincing players that their subscription, crown purchases, vMA runs, achievements and everything else associated with playing the game over a period of almost a couple of weeks counts for nothing. No wonder it never occurred to me that you were talking about such an absurd proposition.

wavingblue

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

When you two get married can I attend the wedding please?

Oh and by the way @ZOS_GinaBruno I was about to purchase 21000 crowns last night, but I didn't because I don't know what the ramifications of your corrective action are going to be. This screw-up and ongoing lack of communication is now costing your company ACTUAL money. not imaginary pixel economics but real dollars/pound/euros. So please get back to us by COP and let us know what is going to happen so we can continue to play this wonderful game.

While this thread has turned into ERMAGERD GET SOMEONE!!!!!1111 this probably needs to be pointed out again (assuming someone at ZOS reads this). More people that post this the better. As it stands they have had such a large influx of subscribers the few cancelled subscriptions and crown purchases probably doesn't mean much, but five pages on the forum with "Hey I held off spending money because of this" will help. Also looks like we'll get round 2 of multi-bid chaos on Sunday, but now with add-ons disable everything will be perfect!

agegarton

There are a couple of serious trolls on this thread who patently have never run a trade guild and who are not close enough to the detail to know what actually happened. Talk of "exploits", or of how GMs are "liars" if they can't calculate bid amounts and refunds (with history turned off), is just ill-informed nonsense.

Still, opinions are like bumholes. Everyone has one. You don't have to get yours out in public though (especially if you usually live under a bridge).

Arrodisia

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

You most certainly did insult and made false accusations. Telling someone they are lying is an insult as well, maybe you didn't learn that growing up. Since we aren't lying, that makes you the one who's actually just assuming like you always do. Assumptions aren't the truth. You're just trolling as you usually do. Consider yourself ignored. Have fun trolling someone else.

I am NOT trolling.
I'm just not buying your whining that "you don't remember how much you've bid". Bidding decisions are a big part of managing a trading guild, so of course, you always remember how much you've bid.
Especially upon the implementation of a new system like multibidding, which impacts the bidding strategy to a great extent, and all guilds are experimenting and testing, of course, every bidder remembers what they've bid.
Everyone with half a brain can see that.
And if I see people lying, I tell them so. That's not being impolite, that's simply not accepting to be taken for an idiot.

You're wasting my and everyone else's time with your whining, insulting, false accusations, trolling........ Please, return to the paranoid bubble from where you came. If you can show one piece of evidence that someone lied about the bids. Then show it. If not, your just acting like a paranoid troll spreading misinformation like you always do. We told the truth. You gave assumptions, because your paranoia took over. The truth>then your assumptions=your paranoia. We don't care if you buy it or not. We know you 're paranoid, because we know. We did nothing wrong. Sorry, but you really are wasting everyone's time here. Most of us are more interested in knowing what ZOS has planned to fix the servers before Sunday. So, this doesn't repeat.Cheers

VaranisArano

I'm rather surprised, to be honest, to hear that bid amounts weren't recorded by some GMs. I guess I'm skeptical enough about ZOS' new multibid that I would have kept track somewhere. Certainly after ZOS has turned off the guild history multiple times, I would have looked at using screenshots or paper recordkeeping as a backup.

I'm not going to try to tell GMs what to do. I've only ever been an officer in a trading guild, so not in the same league. You run your guilds how you want to run them.

But if I were you, having seen this mess happen and knowing that ZOS' go-to quick response is to shut down the guild history...

I'd start keeping screenshots or another record. Its better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. IME, its a lot easier to make sure ZOS gets it right when you've got the records to double check them.

Arrodisia

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm rather surprised, to be honest, to hear that bid amounts weren't recorded by some GMs. I guess I'm skeptical enough about ZOS' new multibid that I would have kept track somewhere. Certainly after ZOS has turned off the guild history multiple times, I would have looked at using screenshots or paper recordkeeping as a backup.

I'm not going to try to tell GMs what to do. I've only ever been an officer in a trading guild, so not in the same league. You run your guilds how you want to run them.

But if I were you, having seen this mess happen and knowing that ZOS' go-to quick response is to shut down the guild history...

I'd start keeping screenshots or another record. Its better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. IME, its a lot easier to make sure ZOS gets it right when you've got the records to double check them.

We fully plan to this week. We expected some minor issues, and some ruffled feathers maybe, but nothing this disastrous to happen.

Best wishes

VaranisArano

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm rather surprised, to be honest, to hear that bid amounts weren't recorded by some GMs. I guess I'm skeptical enough about ZOS' new multibid that I would have kept track somewhere. Certainly after ZOS has turned off the guild history multiple times, I would have looked at using screenshots or paper recordkeeping as a backup.

I'm not going to try to tell GMs what to do. I've only ever been an officer in a trading guild, so not in the same league. You run your guilds how you want to run them.

But if I were you, having seen this mess happen and knowing that ZOS' go-to quick response is to shut down the guild history...

I'd start keeping screenshots or another record. Its better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. IME, its a lot easier to make sure ZOS gets it right when you've got the records to double check them.

We fully plan to this week. We expected some minor issues, and some ruffled feathers maybe, but nothing this disastrous to happen.

Best wishes

Sounds like a good step. It sucks for everyone that it had to happen this disastrously.

Uryel

reoskit wrote: »

Some folks seem to be rather foggy on which situations are in play and who deserves punishment. Let's recap, yes?

Guild got extra gold; no one touched the gold
- This is a bug. No ban/punishment is required. The gold should be removed by ZOS. End of story.

Guild got extra gold; someone took/spent
- This is a bug turned exploit. If the guild's reserves go into the negative when ZOS removes the bogus gold, someone has obviously taken money that wasn't theirs. ZOS needs to review who removed gold from the bank and take appropriate action

Guild bid and "won" their kiosk but didn't keep their kiosk
- The money from the "won" bid needs to be refunded to the guild.
- TBCH, these guys got screwed harder than anyone else and deserve a serious apology. They had their money taken away and got nothing for it, AND they don't have that gold or this week's kiosk income to fund a bid next week.

Post flip, guild hired a kiosk for 10k
- This is the completely legitimate mechanism working as it should.
- If you don't understand the bid versus hire mechanics, you need to stop commentating about it!
- At 5 minutes post flip, the hire option shows for any kiosk not won in the bidding process. The bids failed to finish processing in the window between bid lock and flip - as such, the kiosks were put up for hire.
- Any guild with 50+ members and 10,000g has the ability and the right to hire an unwon kiosk. It is not an exploit or banable offense to use that mechanic. No one hiring a kiosk had time to understand WHY the kiosks were available, but hiring the kiosk was absolutely legitimate.
- If anyone is suggesting that, en masse, all EU players with hiring rights should have stood down and no one should have hired an available kiosk... well, you're simply naive. There was nothing to indicate that it shouldn't be used because X guild got there first.

You guys need to calm down and stop calling for each other's blood. The situation is bad enough without us turning inward.

The only people deserving of punishment are those that took gold that wasn't theirs. Period.

I mostly agree with your post. Mostly. Where I disagree is where punishment is due.

One of the biggest misconception in this whole thread is that GMs only have access to gold. There are most certainly cases where they're not the only ones. You can chose which ranks have access to what, so it's perfectly possible officiers, or maybe even everyone in some cases (rare ones, I suppose), have had access to the gold pile. And quite possibly so in good faith.

I mean, sure, forum dwellers like us here will know about that fustercluck, but what about people who were NOT online when it happened, do NOT visit the forums every 5 minutes, who log in th next day and notice the guild is quite rich, and then use some of that gold ?

Chances are good that the word spread inside the guild, allright. Chances of people using that gold in good faith are slim. But they are NOT nonexistent. In most countries with a proper legal system, when accusing someone of a fault, you need to prove the fault. Can't say much for the rest of the world, but where I live, the intent is part of the fault. If you accidentally kill someone, you get punished, but not quite as much as if you intended to kill the same someone. And proving the fault falls onto the accuser.

So, of course ESO isn't a country, it doesn't have any legal system. If anything, ZOS can shaft you and then you can try to prove you're not guilty, and good luck with that. So maybe, just maybe, the banhammer should be handled with care.

Also, it's easy to say "but they *should* have known there was something wrong !". As the saying goes, "afterwards, every idiot will tell you they had foreseen it".

reoskit

Titansteele wrote: »

The bit that stings is if my belief is true and a fix was pushed into NA then the time spent protecting NA hurt EU even more as I can confidently say a rollback was the correct way to address this problem but only if it had been done at the time.
If they had taken EU offline up to an hour after the swap I would consider their incident management world class, if they had even done it within 3-4 hours I would still consider that very good but after X(I cant be arsed figuring the real number out ) hours a rollback would cause as much (if not more) harm than good.

This is why it's so bittersweet that NA was spared. Grateful as I am that NA didn't go through the same experience, I hate that it appears (pure speculation) to have come at the cost of EU not being fixed. I cannot speak for other NA GMs, but know that it's not lost on me that you guys took the hit.

I said on Sunday that ZOS had to decide where to focus efforts: restoration of EU or prevention for NA, and I didn't envy them the decision. But I think I was wrong. They could have, yes in primetime, taken both servers down for the investigation, patch development, and emergency maintenance; this has been done for other events*, especially game-breaking bugs/exploits. They could roll EU back, patch both of the servers, put them back online. Let EU reprocess the bids.

It would be one hell of a mea culpa - and there would be an uproar, no doubt. But I think the fallout of this week suggests it may have been worthwhile.

*There's talk from ZOS of implementing a patch this weekend for the crashing issues. So, it's not unprecedented, even this week.

Uryel

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Well, I don't get it... isn't it pretty simple ? Don't you know how much you've bid, what trader you've got, what you should honestly have paid according to your bid, what should honestly have been returned to you, and what actually got returned to you ?
You know how much you "owe" to ZOS. Keep that, spend the rest however you like. Easy.

Well, I don't get it. You really believe it's always a single person who handles everything and keeps tabs on everything, like, I don't know, with a spreadsheet or something ? Why even keep tabs anyway ? When the game works as intended, your bids are either used up on the trader or paid back, so why bother ?

Also, no one owes anything to ZOS. They f***ed up. That gold is to be deleted, maybe, but it's not like they had given it from their deep pockets or anything. It appeared ex nihilo. And ZOS certainly owes everyone something, two things ot be accurate : an apology, and better coding and testing.

They didn't apologise. Sure they said "sorry for the inconvenience", but there was no sincere apology, instead they shifted the blame on addons. As if they were something new. And then, they owe everyone proper testing and coding. Giving their customers an untested, dysfunctional product is bad business practice. Not that it will have much impact on their income, but hey, that would be a nice change.

Arrodisia

I still believe. We should be more concerned with how the devs will solve the performance issues before Sunday. So, this doesn't happen again. That should be the priority right now. Then, we can circle back once that is taken care of and readdress the other issues if necessary. Overloading ZOS with requests for everything under the sun, right now, will get us nothing imho.

chess1ukb16_ESO

Yeah a complete shutdown would have been right and many people called for it who are experienced players and know-how serious and difficult to equitably correct this disaster will be as well as the serious consequences to the economy for not doing so.

NA would have been changed to avoid same and then brought back online probably within 90 mins max.

EU would certainly have taken longer to rollback but this would have required rigorous change management controls where they had realised this was a complicated and high-risk change to the system that although implemented on the Monday would only take effect at the bid times 6 days later.

Seems they had no engineering/dev team on standby / heightened awareness nor the decision-makers available to make the tough choices and communicate them to the community they serve.

I get this all would have cost money and hindsight but they were warned over and over about EU stability and simply ignored us or did not assess the risks correctly.

The fact they are so quiet on this tells me they know how royally they fecked up and are almost lost for words on what to do about it. Clueless.

chess1ukb16_ESO

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm rather surprised, to be honest, to hear that bid amounts weren't recorded by some GMs. I guess I'm skeptical enough about ZOS' new multibid that I would have kept track somewhere. Certainly after ZOS has turned off the guild history multiple times, I would have looked at using screenshots or paper recordkeeping as a backup.

I'm not going to try to tell GMs what to do. I've only ever been an officer in a trading guild, so not in the same league. You run your guilds how you want to run them.

But if I were you, having seen this mess happen and knowing that ZOS' go-to quick response is to shut down the guild history...

I'd start keeping screenshots or another record. Its better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. IME, its a lot easier to make sure ZOS gets it right when you've got the records to double check them.

I screenshot all my bids for my guilds and repeated to at least 15+ GM's who were in the discord with me to do the same. But I did not check my bank and honestly, with the ins and outs across multiple times it's not as simple as it sounds. That said you can view guild history if you turn off addons that read it so every GM can review this info retrospectively.