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[PvP] mDK changes in 3.3.2
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Quantum_VClass RepresentativeYes make all magdk skills undodgeable and go past block. They need it. Why just powerlash going past dodge normal whip should do it like it did 2 years ago!! LOL
Useful.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
You might wanna consider practicing reading comprehension skills before puking the forums with reductio ad absurdum logical argumentative fallacies.Please understand I'm not here asking for mDKs buffs, I said it before and I'll say it again, mDKs are an exceptional class.And honestly, mDKs need no further buffs apart from maybe reworking banner as an ult.
I made an entire forum post talking about on how powerlash changes 3.3.0 should be reverted back as it was way to strong and a clear overbuff to mDKs.
Here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/389237/pvp-mdk-changes/p1
I've asked for mDK changes inumerous times before - being it for nerfs or buffs. Making such an ill, unfounded, bottomless and unjustifiable comment only proves that you're illiterate on the topic and misjudging of my persona. Do not jump to conclusions like that.
I come to the forums simply to present my opinion on what - through my scope of reality - could be fair and balanced changes. You've got all the right to disagree, you just don't have the right to claim that I'm using 'the mDK being weak argument to justify bad mechanics and bugs to prove ur point'. Specially when bugs (like powerlash healing for twice as much in pts) were used as arguments from people that mostly differ from my points. As I have never said a single time mDK is weak, on the contrary I think mDKs are exceptional in this game. BUT as I said before, we aren't in a position to take any nerfs and having undodgeable whips is a core mechanic on what makes mDK a fluid and a mechanically elaborate class.
You are the one not reading or maybe just choosing to read whatever suits u. So dont talk to me about fallacies. This thread is filled with them. With people taking medium armor bleed stamplar builds as a standard to say that medium armor dodge roll builds are good against mDK. Or saying that power lash being dodgeable will be useless as if every dodgeable ability in the game is useless. Or saying that NBs can fear before using their incap which also happens to be dodgeable but refuse to use the same logic for mDK. Or saying that stamblades dont get to take a lot of dmg when they can dish out a lot of dmg but apparently refuse to use the same (but reversed) logic on mDK. Or saying that birds are undodgeable so lash should be undodgeable. We can go back and forth on fallacies.
And Im not gonna argue whether mDK is good or not. Thats a whole different discussion but if u ask me i dont think they are. They rely on a bunch of different stupid mechanics that have absolutely nothing to do with mDK in the first place like skoria and they give the idea that they are good but without those mechanics i highly doubt about their performance.
I just simply pointed that undodgeable lashes were also a bug. And the "DK being weak" argument is like a figure of speech. I mean the issues with DKs or whatever you want to call it. And i made that comment in response to ur comment that the double heal on lashes is a bug. It goes both ways. And imo a bug that was very well fixed. Abilities ignoring mechanics shouldnt exist. Doesnt matter how it affects a class. If someone is rolling away from DK roots then he is doing something right. Getting punished for doing something right doesnt make much sense if u ask me.With people taking medium armor bleed stamplar builds as a standard to say that medium armor dodge roll builds are good against mDK.
I'm pretty sure most of us here agreed that stamblade v magDK is an unfavorable matchup towards the the NB. Nonetheless, inumerous arguments were also presented to disprove the fallacy that it's an impossible match up, specially arguments that revolve around DoTs, mobility and incaps which are at the nbs disposal and can be used effectively by the latter. I'll repeat though, it's an unfavorable match up, that is not a reason to change mDK as a whole. It's similar to what happened with TK, people said it was too strong and instead of nerfing TK, ZOS buffed Defile to a point that it's too strong against anybody. mDK being strong against stamblades is not a good cause to change mDK's mechanics completely. I've been playing on PTS everyday and mDK feels cluncky.
But it's not about stamblade vs magDk. I'm doing just fine on heavy armor stamblade against them (have lost to one mag Dk on my heavy armor build since Morrowind until I stopped playing it - in my opinion this matchup is even in favour of the heavy armor nightblade because heavy armor nightblade can pressure magdks so well but that's again not the point), it's about mag Dks have been able to completely shut down a whole armor skill line. I'm fine with counters to dodge (most classes have some kind of damage which goes through dodge) but making literally every single ability on one class undodgeable is a bit extreme, don't you think that as well?
I even agree on some points which mag Dks do but this argument that you should be able to shut down a complete armor skill line is hilarious. I'm pretty sure that most players would actually listen and be up for some good changes which would affect mag Dk in a positive way if you wouldn't make such a fuss about hardcounters getting "nerfed" (you will still do fine against medium armor, you will still get the heal from whip even if it's dodged, there is nothing to worry about).
Thanks for your input. I also understand where you're coming from. What we're actually complaining is that powerlash nerf has severe other implications that exceeds fighting your stamina nightblade, once the dodge mechanic is innate to rooting people. I just think the changes made are pointing at the wrong direction. Make most of mDKs skills dodgeable like any regular skill from other classes, but don't make powerlash, a skill that basically ONLY hits people due to the fact that it is undodgeable (yes, I exaggerated a bit, it's just to get my point through clearly). Furthermore, it's been too long since medium armor has been bad, specially in dueling scenarios, but even still there are sets like Fortified brass, pariah, impreg etc... that makes stamblades in medium comparable to heavy armor ones. One of the best duelists out there rn, that won the past Legends tournament runs Impreg on his medium armor stamplar for instance.
If that were true, I'd be struggling right now on PTS.
Truth is, vs light/heavy builds I land 90%++ of Power Lashes and vs medium armor builds around 50% of them (number can be improved). These hyperboles don't help your argument.
Also, I'm on PTS (yes, where the Lash is dodgeable on top of it all) if you'd wish to show me how you survive vs high dmg mDK with Fortified Brass or Impreg (sets which no one who wants to get kills uses on Live) on a dodge roll build.
Go on, make a template if you don't have a stam character & whisper @DDuke . Show me how it's done if you're so sure of it.
P.S. last time a medium armor build won any tournament, we were in proc set meta.
Duke, why do you talk about things you've got no clue about?
Last time a medium armor build won a dueling tournament was last week, and not only it was a dueling tournament it is the biggest tournament from EU and NA. Kirimoto won, with a medium armor stamplar. Like, if you're gonna make statements AT LEAST figure out what you're talking about. First bringing forth wrong numbers from CC immunity, now establishing LIES about how last time medium armor won tournaments was in proc set meta... Like, do you just make random stuff up and expect people to believe in it as if was an aboslute truth or what?
Duke, I've got no idea on how to play stam classes, haven't played nothing but mDK for the past two years. And I bet a bugged powerlash with double healing and healing people when it misses has got to be helping out.
If you're just gonna lie and throw out blunt disinformation you might aswell just stop commenting under this thread.
Didn't watch last week's tournament ^^
I'll watch it, but I'm already quite sure- Kodi didn't participate with heavy S&B stamblade or warden
- Medium stamplar was either S&B or never went against a good mDK
Here on EU my statement is very accurate atleast, nobody is running medium because it's suicide.
But go ahead, keep flaming me. Meanwhile I'll keep getting great results on my buffed mDK on the PTS. And praying ZOS doesn't revert changes to make them even more overpowered (and especially against builds they're already overpowered against).Edited by DDuke on 25 January 2018 17:551 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭No offense @Quantum_V or anyone involved in the tournament but I doubt it's the biggest from EU and NA. You can't possibly make a statement like that when transfers in between regions aren't possible. Biggest NA maybe, but you have no way of knowing how it would be considered in the EU server.0 -
Quantum_VClass RepresentativeNo offense @Quantum_V or anyone involved in the tournament but I doubt it's the biggest from EU and NA. You can't possibly make a statement like that when transfers in between regions aren't possible. Biggest NA maybe, but you have no way of knowing how it would be considered in the EU server.
Non taken. Yes, I'm aware, it was a bald statement. But considering Kodi and Blobs streamed it with 200+ people watching it on each stream - I think it's not unlikely it is the biggest tournament going on rn.0 -
Quantum_VClass RepresentativeRagnaroek93 wrote: »
You might wanna consider practicing reading comprehension skills before puking the forums with reductio ad absurdum logical argumentative fallacies.Please understand I'm not here asking for mDKs buffs, I said it before and I'll say it again, mDKs are an exceptional class.And honestly, mDKs need no further buffs apart from maybe reworking banner as an ult.
I made an entire forum post talking about on how powerlash changes 3.3.0 should be reverted back as it was way to strong and a clear overbuff to mDKs.
Here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/389237/pvp-mdk-changes/p1
I've asked for mDK changes inumerous times before - being it for nerfs or buffs. Making such an ill, unfounded, bottomless and unjustifiable comment only proves that you're illiterate on the topic and misjudging of my persona. Do not jump to conclusions like that.
I come to the forums simply to present my opinion on what - through my scope of reality - could be fair and balanced changes. You've got all the right to disagree, you just don't have the right to claim that I'm using 'the mDK being weak argument to justify bad mechanics and bugs to prove ur point'. Specially when bugs (like powerlash healing for twice as much in pts) were used as arguments from people that mostly differ from my points. As I have never said a single time mDK is weak, on the contrary I think mDKs are exceptional in this game. BUT as I said before, we aren't in a position to take any nerfs and having undodgeable whips is a core mechanic on what makes mDK a fluid and a mechanically elaborate class.
You are the one not reading or maybe just choosing to read whatever suits u. So dont talk to me about fallacies. This thread is filled with them. With people taking medium armor bleed stamplar builds as a standard to say that medium armor dodge roll builds are good against mDK. Or saying that power lash being dodgeable will be useless as if every dodgeable ability in the game is useless. Or saying that NBs can fear before using their incap which also happens to be dodgeable but refuse to use the same logic for mDK. Or saying that stamblades dont get to take a lot of dmg when they can dish out a lot of dmg but apparently refuse to use the same (but reversed) logic on mDK. Or saying that birds are undodgeable so lash should be undodgeable. We can go back and forth on fallacies.
And Im not gonna argue whether mDK is good or not. Thats a whole different discussion but if u ask me i dont think they are. They rely on a bunch of different stupid mechanics that have absolutely nothing to do with mDK in the first place like skoria and they give the idea that they are good but without those mechanics i highly doubt about their performance.
I just simply pointed that undodgeable lashes were also a bug. And the "DK being weak" argument is like a figure of speech. I mean the issues with DKs or whatever you want to call it. And i made that comment in response to ur comment that the double heal on lashes is a bug. It goes both ways. And imo a bug that was very well fixed. Abilities ignoring mechanics shouldnt exist. Doesnt matter how it affects a class. If someone is rolling away from DK roots then he is doing something right. Getting punished for doing something right doesnt make much sense if u ask me.With people taking medium armor bleed stamplar builds as a standard to say that medium armor dodge roll builds are good against mDK.
I'm pretty sure most of us here agreed that stamblade v magDK is an unfavorable matchup towards the the NB. Nonetheless, inumerous arguments were also presented to disprove the fallacy that it's an impossible match up, specially arguments that revolve around DoTs, mobility and incaps which are at the nbs disposal and can be used effectively by the latter. I'll repeat though, it's an unfavorable match up, that is not a reason to change mDK as a whole. It's similar to what happened with TK, people said it was too strong and instead of nerfing TK, ZOS buffed Defile to a point that it's too strong against anybody. mDK being strong against stamblades is not a good cause to change mDK's mechanics completely. I've been playing on PTS everyday and mDK feels cluncky.
But it's not about stamblade vs magDk. I'm doing just fine on heavy armor stamblade against them (have lost to one mag Dk on my heavy armor build since Morrowind until I stopped playing it - in my opinion this matchup is even in favour of the heavy armor nightblade because heavy armor nightblade can pressure magdks so well but that's again not the point), it's about mag Dks have been able to completely shut down a whole armor skill line. I'm fine with counters to dodge (most classes have some kind of damage which goes through dodge) but making literally every single ability on one class undodgeable is a bit extreme, don't you think that as well?
I even agree on some points which mag Dks do but this argument that you should be able to shut down a complete armor skill line is hilarious. I'm pretty sure that most players would actually listen and be up for some good changes which would affect mag Dk in a positive way if you wouldn't make such a fuss about hardcounters getting "nerfed" (you will still do fine against medium armor, you will still get the heal from whip even if it's dodged, there is nothing to worry about).
Thanks for your input. I also understand where you're coming from. What we're actually complaining is that powerlash nerf has severe other implications that exceeds fighting your stamina nightblade, once the dodge mechanic is innate to rooting people. I just think the changes made are pointing at the wrong direction. Make most of mDKs skills dodgeable like any regular skill from other classes, but don't make powerlash, a skill that basically ONLY hits people due to the fact that it is undodgeable (yes, I exaggerated a bit, it's just to get my point through clearly). Furthermore, it's been too long since medium armor has been bad, specially in dueling scenarios, but even still there are sets like Fortified brass, pariah, impreg etc... that makes stamblades in medium comparable to heavy armor ones. One of the best duelists out there rn, that won the past Legends tournament runs Impreg on his medium armor stamplar for instance.
If that were true, I'd be struggling right now on PTS.
Truth is, vs light/heavy builds I land 90%++ of Power Lashes and vs medium armor builds around 50% of them (number can be improved). These hyperboles don't help your argument.
Also, I'm on PTS (yes, where the Lash is dodgeable on top of it all) if you'd wish to show me how you survive vs high dmg mDK with Fortified Brass or Impreg (sets which no one who wants to get kills uses on Live) on a dodge roll build.
Go on, make a template if you don't have a stam character & whisper @DDuke . Show me how it's done if you're so sure of it.
P.S. last time a medium armor build won any tournament, we were in proc set meta.
Duke, why do you talk about things you've got no clue about?
Last time a medium armor build won a dueling tournament was last week, and not only it was a dueling tournament it is the biggest tournament from EU and NA. Kirimoto won, with a medium armor stamplar. Like, if you're gonna make statements AT LEAST figure out what you're talking about. First bringing forth wrong numbers from CC immunity, now establishing LIES about how last time medium armor won tournaments was in proc set meta... Like, do you just make random stuff up and expect people to believe in it as if was an aboslute truth or what?
Duke, I've got no idea on how to play stam classes, haven't played nothing but mDK for the past two years. And I bet a bugged powerlash with double healing and healing people when it misses has got to be helping out.
If you're just gonna lie and throw out blunt disinformation you might aswell just stop commenting under this thread.
Didn't watch last week's tournament ^^
I'll watch it, but I'm already quite sure- Kodi didn't participate with heavy S&B stamblade or warden
- Medium stamplar was either S&B or never went against a good mDK
Here on EU my statement is very accurate atleast, nobody is running medium because it's suicide.
But go ahead, keep flaming me. Meanwhile I'll keep getting great results on my buffed mDK on the PTS. And praying ZOS doesn't revert changes to make them even more overpowered (and especially against builds they're already overpowered against).
Great results is relative, Decimus. According to your video, I wouldn't call that great results myself, maybe to your standards - don't generalize.3 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
You might wanna consider practicing reading comprehension skills before puking the forums with reductio ad absurdum logical argumentative fallacies.Please understand I'm not here asking for mDKs buffs, I said it before and I'll say it again, mDKs are an exceptional class.And honestly, mDKs need no further buffs apart from maybe reworking banner as an ult.
I made an entire forum post talking about on how powerlash changes 3.3.0 should be reverted back as it was way to strong and a clear overbuff to mDKs.
Here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/389237/pvp-mdk-changes/p1
I've asked for mDK changes inumerous times before - being it for nerfs or buffs. Making such an ill, unfounded, bottomless and unjustifiable comment only proves that you're illiterate on the topic and misjudging of my persona. Do not jump to conclusions like that.
I come to the forums simply to present my opinion on what - through my scope of reality - could be fair and balanced changes. You've got all the right to disagree, you just don't have the right to claim that I'm using 'the mDK being weak argument to justify bad mechanics and bugs to prove ur point'. Specially when bugs (like powerlash healing for twice as much in pts) were used as arguments from people that mostly differ from my points. As I have never said a single time mDK is weak, on the contrary I think mDKs are exceptional in this game. BUT as I said before, we aren't in a position to take any nerfs and having undodgeable whips is a core mechanic on what makes mDK a fluid and a mechanically elaborate class.
You are the one not reading or maybe just choosing to read whatever suits u. So dont talk to me about fallacies. This thread is filled with them. With people taking medium armor bleed stamplar builds as a standard to say that medium armor dodge roll builds are good against mDK. Or saying that power lash being dodgeable will be useless as if every dodgeable ability in the game is useless. Or saying that NBs can fear before using their incap which also happens to be dodgeable but refuse to use the same logic for mDK. Or saying that stamblades dont get to take a lot of dmg when they can dish out a lot of dmg but apparently refuse to use the same (but reversed) logic on mDK. Or saying that birds are undodgeable so lash should be undodgeable. We can go back and forth on fallacies.
And Im not gonna argue whether mDK is good or not. Thats a whole different discussion but if u ask me i dont think they are. They rely on a bunch of different stupid mechanics that have absolutely nothing to do with mDK in the first place like skoria and they give the idea that they are good but without those mechanics i highly doubt about their performance.
I just simply pointed that undodgeable lashes were also a bug. And the "DK being weak" argument is like a figure of speech. I mean the issues with DKs or whatever you want to call it. And i made that comment in response to ur comment that the double heal on lashes is a bug. It goes both ways. And imo a bug that was very well fixed. Abilities ignoring mechanics shouldnt exist. Doesnt matter how it affects a class. If someone is rolling away from DK roots then he is doing something right. Getting punished for doing something right doesnt make much sense if u ask me.With people taking medium armor bleed stamplar builds as a standard to say that medium armor dodge roll builds are good against mDK.
I'm pretty sure most of us here agreed that stamblade v magDK is an unfavorable matchup towards the the NB. Nonetheless, inumerous arguments were also presented to disprove the fallacy that it's an impossible match up, specially arguments that revolve around DoTs, mobility and incaps which are at the nbs disposal and can be used effectively by the latter. I'll repeat though, it's an unfavorable match up, that is not a reason to change mDK as a whole. It's similar to what happened with TK, people said it was too strong and instead of nerfing TK, ZOS buffed Defile to a point that it's too strong against anybody. mDK being strong against stamblades is not a good cause to change mDK's mechanics completely. I've been playing on PTS everyday and mDK feels cluncky.
But it's not about stamblade vs magDk. I'm doing just fine on heavy armor stamblade against them (have lost to one mag Dk on my heavy armor build since Morrowind until I stopped playing it - in my opinion this matchup is even in favour of the heavy armor nightblade because heavy armor nightblade can pressure magdks so well but that's again not the point), it's about mag Dks have been able to completely shut down a whole armor skill line. I'm fine with counters to dodge (most classes have some kind of damage which goes through dodge) but making literally every single ability on one class undodgeable is a bit extreme, don't you think that as well?
I even agree on some points which mag Dks do but this argument that you should be able to shut down a complete armor skill line is hilarious. I'm pretty sure that most players would actually listen and be up for some good changes which would affect mag Dk in a positive way if you wouldn't make such a fuss about hardcounters getting "nerfed" (you will still do fine against medium armor, you will still get the heal from whip even if it's dodged, there is nothing to worry about).
Thanks for your input. I also understand where you're coming from. What we're actually complaining is that powerlash nerf has severe other implications that exceeds fighting your stamina nightblade, once the dodge mechanic is innate to rooting people. I just think the changes made are pointing at the wrong direction. Make most of mDKs skills dodgeable like any regular skill from other classes, but don't make powerlash, a skill that basically ONLY hits people due to the fact that it is undodgeable (yes, I exaggerated a bit, it's just to get my point through clearly). Furthermore, it's been too long since medium armor has been bad, specially in dueling scenarios, but even still there are sets like Fortified brass, pariah, impreg etc... that makes stamblades in medium comparable to heavy armor ones. One of the best duelists out there rn, that won the past Legends tournament runs Impreg on his medium armor stamplar for instance.
If that were true, I'd be struggling right now on PTS.
Truth is, vs light/heavy builds I land 90%++ of Power Lashes and vs medium armor builds around 50% of them (number can be improved). These hyperboles don't help your argument.
Also, I'm on PTS (yes, where the Lash is dodgeable on top of it all) if you'd wish to show me how you survive vs high dmg mDK with Fortified Brass or Impreg (sets which no one who wants to get kills uses on Live) on a dodge roll build.
Go on, make a template if you don't have a stam character & whisper @DDuke . Show me how it's done if you're so sure of it.
P.S. last time a medium armor build won any tournament, we were in proc set meta.
Duke, why do you talk about things you've got no clue about?
Last time a medium armor build won a dueling tournament was last week, and not only it was a dueling tournament it is the biggest tournament from EU and NA. Kirimoto won, with a medium armor stamplar. Like, if you're gonna make statements AT LEAST figure out what you're talking about. First bringing forth wrong numbers from CC immunity, now establishing LIES about how last time medium armor won tournaments was in proc set meta... Like, do you just make random stuff up and expect people to believe in it as if was an aboslute truth or what?
Duke, I've got no idea on how to play stam classes, haven't played nothing but mDK for the past two years. And I bet a bugged powerlash with double healing and healing people when it misses has got to be helping out.
If you're just gonna lie and throw out blunt disinformation you might aswell just stop commenting under this thread.
Didn't watch last week's tournament ^^
I'll watch it, but I'm already quite sure- Kodi didn't participate with heavy S&B stamblade or warden
- Medium stamplar was either S&B or never went against a good mDK
Here on EU my statement is very accurate atleast, nobody is running medium because it's suicide.
But go ahead, keep flaming me. Meanwhile I'll keep getting great results on my buffed mDK on the PTS. And praying ZOS doesn't revert changes to make them even more overpowered (and especially against builds they're already overpowered against).
Great results is relative, Decimus. According to your video, I wouldn't call that great results myself, maybe to your standards - don't generalize.
If you can show me better results that I can learn from (preferably mDK, but you can show me other classes too) please share. Always eager to learn what kind of builds others play (rather than just assume everyone plays the same build I do and cry for nerfs/buffs based on that
).
Looking at the runner-ups in that tournament, I'm starting to understand why you people complain about dodge roll builds.
S&B is garbage for dueling on mag builds, you will never have enough damage to get through good Heavy Armor+TK, and might not even have enough to delete medium armor TK builds from existence. Forget about killing good pet sorcs as well.
What S&B DK is good for is tanking pugs.Edited by DDuke on 25 January 2018 18:290 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭How are you going to outheal 15k tooltip power lashes, undodgeable embers, 20k tooltip leaps, FoB projectiles, Skoria procs?
If you've got 15k whip tooltip you're most likely 1 shot material. Any decent stamblade will be able to kill you with a fear/incap combo. Moreover, with that high damage build, you should be able to relaibly kill medium armor targets, you're a glass cannon.
You can't simultaneously be "1 shot material" and "be able to reliably kill medium armor targets". It's one or the other (you don't kill anything while dead).
I have my build here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/387047/video-decimus-magicka-dragonknight-pvp
You tell me if I'm "getting one shot".How are you going to keep your distance when a mag DK has Empowering Chains slotted?
Chains is a super glitchy skill when it comes to z-axis casting. I tried it too. Apart from that, it's almost impossible to be able to slot chains and have an mDK build that capable of competing in something apart from pug stomping, as DKs need other very important utility skills to perform properly.
Never had a problem with Chains. If you don't slot them, you don't get to complain about medium armor builds. That skill is a must have for any serious magicka DK interested in 1v1 or 1vX.
That is the worst stamblade combo you could've come up with.
All you get in terms of damage is one Incap (capped at 8371 damage against me even for the highest dmg gankblade), what you should be looking at is using the Incap as CC & comboing it with Relentless (which is capped at 19 473 dmg even for the highest dmg gankblade).
I've calculated everything & built my character to withstand everything.
This is a delusional claim. Making your main form of DPS, which is only granted after telling your opponent to rolldodge a dodgeable skill us by no means a buff.If there's anyone with L2P issues it's you, complaining when mDKs are getting buffed against most builds in the game.
Have you been on PTS? If you have, you'll most likely agree with me that slotting whip on your bar is basically useless, as it's really, really, really rare to ever hit an opponent with it.
Yes, I have.
Currently dueling a heavy armor DW/2H stamblade & being very grateful for that extra Power Lash heal up time, it is working just as I thought it would.
My in game @ is DDuke as well.
You are a straight liar.
Chains is a must for 1v1 or 1vX???
HA HA HA HA HA, this one comment proves you have no clue wtf a magdk build even is4 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭No offense @Quantum_V or anyone involved in the tournament but I doubt it's the biggest from EU and NA. You can't possibly make a statement like that when transfers in between regions aren't possible. Biggest NA maybe, but you have no way of knowing how it would be considered in the EU server.
Non taken. Yes, I'm aware, it was a bald statement. But considering Kodi and Blobs streamed it with 200+ people watching it on each stream - I think it's not unlikely it is the biggest tournament going on rn.
Good points. From that point of view it is most undoubtably the biggest. I thought about how popular it would be between the participants/guilds that take part in it, though, but I don't have doubts NA would be bigger anyway. EU has an extremely cancerous community and like 0 actual duel guilds.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »How are you going to outheal 15k tooltip power lashes, undodgeable embers, 20k tooltip leaps, FoB projectiles, Skoria procs?
If you've got 15k whip tooltip you're most likely 1 shot material. Any decent stamblade will be able to kill you with a fear/incap combo. Moreover, with that high damage build, you should be able to relaibly kill medium armor targets, you're a glass cannon.
You can't simultaneously be "1 shot material" and "be able to reliably kill medium armor targets". It's one or the other (you don't kill anything while dead).
I have my build here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/387047/video-decimus-magicka-dragonknight-pvp
You tell me if I'm "getting one shot".How are you going to keep your distance when a mag DK has Empowering Chains slotted?
Chains is a super glitchy skill when it comes to z-axis casting. I tried it too. Apart from that, it's almost impossible to be able to slot chains and have an mDK build that capable of competing in something apart from pug stomping, as DKs need other very important utility skills to perform properly.
Never had a problem with Chains. If you don't slot them, you don't get to complain about medium armor builds. That skill is a must have for any serious magicka DK interested in 1v1 or 1vX.
That is the worst stamblade combo you could've come up with.
All you get in terms of damage is one Incap (capped at 8371 damage against me even for the highest dmg gankblade), what you should be looking at is using the Incap as CC & comboing it with Relentless (which is capped at 19 473 dmg even for the highest dmg gankblade).
I've calculated everything & built my character to withstand everything.
This is a delusional claim. Making your main form of DPS, which is only granted after telling your opponent to rolldodge a dodgeable skill us by no means a buff.If there's anyone with L2P issues it's you, complaining when mDKs are getting buffed against most builds in the game.
Have you been on PTS? If you have, you'll most likely agree with me that slotting whip on your bar is basically useless, as it's really, really, really rare to ever hit an opponent with it.
Yes, I have.
Currently dueling a heavy armor DW/2H stamblade & being very grateful for that extra Power Lash heal up time, it is working just as I thought it would.
My in game @ is DDuke as well.
You are a straight liar.
Chains is a must for 1v1 or 1vX???
HA HA HA HA HA, this one comment proves you have no clue wtf a magdk build even is
Yes, it is.
Alternative is coming here to the forums & QQing about DK lacking mobility, mean dodge roll builds bullying you & whatnot
While I'm all about build diversity and having a strong diversity of builds to choose from, one can't really complain about certain builds when you have skills available to counter them.
Imagine this, even medium stamblades (you know, the people with Shuffle, Cloak, Shadow Image, dodge rolls, faster sprint etc) tend to slot a gap closer (atleast in open world). They have good mobility, yet they still feel like a gap closer is necessary. Why do you think that is the case?
Magicka DK on the other hand has very low base mobility, no class access to Major Expedition, almost entirely melee based damage. Yet they have access to the strongest gap closer in the game (undodgeable, Major Expedition, Major Empower).
And some [snip]s laugh at it because they have no clue on how to build a viable character.
But hey, I'm fine with that. I'll be kiting these people on my ranged builds and getting easy kills while they complain about lack of mobility and execute and whatnot.Edited by DDuke on 25 January 2018 18:272 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »How are you going to outheal 15k tooltip power lashes, undodgeable embers, 20k tooltip leaps, FoB projectiles, Skoria procs?
If you've got 15k whip tooltip you're most likely 1 shot material. Any decent stamblade will be able to kill you with a fear/incap combo. Moreover, with that high damage build, you should be able to relaibly kill medium armor targets, you're a glass cannon.
You can't simultaneously be "1 shot material" and "be able to reliably kill medium armor targets". It's one or the other (you don't kill anything while dead).
I have my build here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/387047/video-decimus-magicka-dragonknight-pvp
You tell me if I'm "getting one shot".How are you going to keep your distance when a mag DK has Empowering Chains slotted?
Chains is a super glitchy skill when it comes to z-axis casting. I tried it too. Apart from that, it's almost impossible to be able to slot chains and have an mDK build that capable of competing in something apart from pug stomping, as DKs need other very important utility skills to perform properly.
Never had a problem with Chains. If you don't slot them, you don't get to complain about medium armor builds. That skill is a must have for any serious magicka DK interested in 1v1 or 1vX.
That is the worst stamblade combo you could've come up with.
All you get in terms of damage is one Incap (capped at 8371 damage against me even for the highest dmg gankblade), what you should be looking at is using the Incap as CC & comboing it with Relentless (which is capped at 19 473 dmg even for the highest dmg gankblade).
I've calculated everything & built my character to withstand everything.
This is a delusional claim. Making your main form of DPS, which is only granted after telling your opponent to rolldodge a dodgeable skill us by no means a buff.If there's anyone with L2P issues it's you, complaining when mDKs are getting buffed against most builds in the game.
Have you been on PTS? If you have, you'll most likely agree with me that slotting whip on your bar is basically useless, as it's really, really, really rare to ever hit an opponent with it.
Yes, I have.
Currently dueling a heavy armor DW/2H stamblade & being very grateful for that extra Power Lash heal up time, it is working just as I thought it would.
My in game @ is DDuke as well.
You are a straight liar.
Chains is a must for 1v1 or 1vX???
HA HA HA HA HA, this one comment proves you have no clue wtf a magdk build even is
Yes, it is.
Alternative is coming here to the forums & QQing about DK lacking mobility, mean dodge roll builds bullying you & whatnot
While I'm all about build diversity and having a strong diversity of builds to choose from, one can't really complain about certain builds when you have skills available to counter them.
Imagine this, even medium stamblades (you know, the people with Shuffle, Cloak, Shadow Image, dodge rolls, faster sprint etc) tend to slot a gap closer (atleast in open world). They have good mobility, yet they still feel like a gap closer is necessary. Why do you think that is the case?
Magicka DK on the other hand has very low base mobility, no class access to Major Expedition, almost entirely melee based damage. Yet they have access to the strongest gap closer in the game (undodgeable, Major Expedition, Major Empower).
And some [snip]s laugh at it because they have no clue on how to build a viable character.
But hey, I'm fine with that. I'll be kiting these people on my ranged builds and getting easy kills while they complain about lack of mobility and execute and whatnot.
All these words and I'm still just rolling on the floor laughing at how dumb you sound.
What platform are you on? Please tell me. I will kill your Mag dk in 30 seconds with an ass of a skill like chains slotted lmafaooooEdited by Nelson_Rebel on 25 January 2018 18:311 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »How are you going to outheal 15k tooltip power lashes, undodgeable embers, 20k tooltip leaps, FoB projectiles, Skoria procs?
If you've got 15k whip tooltip you're most likely 1 shot material. Any decent stamblade will be able to kill you with a fear/incap combo. Moreover, with that high damage build, you should be able to relaibly kill medium armor targets, you're a glass cannon.
You can't simultaneously be "1 shot material" and "be able to reliably kill medium armor targets". It's one or the other (you don't kill anything while dead).
I have my build here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/387047/video-decimus-magicka-dragonknight-pvp
You tell me if I'm "getting one shot".How are you going to keep your distance when a mag DK has Empowering Chains slotted?
Chains is a super glitchy skill when it comes to z-axis casting. I tried it too. Apart from that, it's almost impossible to be able to slot chains and have an mDK build that capable of competing in something apart from pug stomping, as DKs need other very important utility skills to perform properly.
Never had a problem with Chains. If you don't slot them, you don't get to complain about medium armor builds. That skill is a must have for any serious magicka DK interested in 1v1 or 1vX.
That is the worst stamblade combo you could've come up with.
All you get in terms of damage is one Incap (capped at 8371 damage against me even for the highest dmg gankblade), what you should be looking at is using the Incap as CC & comboing it with Relentless (which is capped at 19 473 dmg even for the highest dmg gankblade).
I've calculated everything & built my character to withstand everything.
This is a delusional claim. Making your main form of DPS, which is only granted after telling your opponent to rolldodge a dodgeable skill us by no means a buff.If there's anyone with L2P issues it's you, complaining when mDKs are getting buffed against most builds in the game.
Have you been on PTS? If you have, you'll most likely agree with me that slotting whip on your bar is basically useless, as it's really, really, really rare to ever hit an opponent with it.
Yes, I have.
Currently dueling a heavy armor DW/2H stamblade & being very grateful for that extra Power Lash heal up time, it is working just as I thought it would.
My in game @ is DDuke as well.
You are a straight liar.
Chains is a must for 1v1 or 1vX???
HA HA HA HA HA, this one comment proves you have no clue wtf a magdk build even is
Yes, it is.
Alternative is coming here to the forums & QQing about DK lacking mobility, mean dodge roll builds bullying you & whatnot
While I'm all about build diversity and having a strong diversity of builds to choose from, one can't really complain about certain builds when you have skills available to counter them.
Imagine this, even medium stamblades (you know, the people with Shuffle, Cloak, Shadow Image, dodge rolls, faster sprint etc) tend to slot a gap closer (atleast in open world). They have good mobility, yet they still feel like a gap closer is necessary. Why do you think that is the case?
Magicka DK on the other hand has very low base mobility, no class access to Major Expedition, almost entirely melee based damage. Yet they have access to the strongest gap closer in the game (undodgeable, Major Expedition, Major Empower).
And some [snip]s laugh at it because they have no clue on how to build a viable character.
But hey, I'm fine with that. I'll be kiting these people on my ranged builds and getting easy kills while they complain about lack of mobility and execute and whatnot.
All these words and I'm still just rolling on the floor laughing at how dumb you sound.
What platform are you on? Please tell me. I will kill your Mag dk in 30 seconds with an ass of a skill like chaines slotted lmafaoooo
I'm PC EU, on PTS at the moment. Good luck.0 -
Quantum_VClass RepresentativeDecimus, let me undersand this properly. So you're saying we complain that we have no mobility while we have chains. Ok, so can I complain that stamblades aren't using heavy armor and should stop QQing about undodgeable lashes?Edited by Quantum_V on 25 January 2018 18:470
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Decimus, let he understnad this properly. So you're saying we complain that we have no mobility while we have chains. Ok, so can I complain that stamblades aren't using heavy armor and should stop QQing about undodgeable lashes?
Yes and no.
If I were actually playing stamblade right now in medium armor & QQing about stamblade being *** when the logical solution is equipping Heavy Armor+TK (and maybe S&B for extra cheese), then yes.
Stamblade is a killing machine in heavy.
However, what you're doing here is complaining about a very specific kind of DK having trouble against medium armor builds, yet casting it as a general DK issue (which it isn't).
You need to understand that there are DK builds that absolutely destroy medium armor dodge rollers currently, largely thanks to undodgeable Power Lash. Even on PTS medium builds are still in a heap of trouble, but they can now survive a couple seconds longer atleast.
Downside of these builds is that they don't tank zergs and they're more vulnerable to burst (before you start, this burst is not a problem in 1v1 scenario), unlike S&B which has more trouble killing people with TK but can survive burst better (though Defile is a problem) and has a defense that scales better vs multiple people (block) than Healing Ward.
But let's not just talk about your build or my build only, there's also the 2H/Resto mDK that does well against medium armor, unsnarable thanks to FM and able to keep up with dodge rollers trying to kite & many other lesser known builds that solve the dmg issues of S&B mDK.Edited by DDuke on 25 January 2018 18:540 -
Quantum_VClass RepresentativeDecimus, let he understnad this properly. So you're saying we complain that we have no mobility while we have chains. Ok, so can I complain that stamblades aren't using heavy armor and should stop QQing about undodgeable lashes?
Yes and no.
If I were actually playing stamblade right now in medium armor & QQing about stamblade being *** when the logical solution is equipping Heavy Armor+TK (and maybe S&B for extra cheese), then yes.
Stamblade is a killing machine in heavy.
However, what you're doing here is complaining about a very specific kind of DK having trouble against medium armor builds, yet casting it as a general DK issue (which it isn't).
You need to understand that there are DK builds that absolutely destroy medium armor dodge rollers currently, largely thanks to undodgeable Power Lash.
Downside of these builds is that they don't tank zergs and they're more vulnerable to burst (before you start, this burst is not a problem in 1v1 scenario), unlike S&B which has more trouble killing people with TK but can survive burst better (though Defile is a problem) and has a defense that scales better vs multiple people (block) than Healing Ward.
Oh my days, can we stop this already?However, what you're doing here is complaining about a very specific kind of DK having trouble against medium armor builds, yet casting it as a general DK issue (which it isn't).
Why do I need to repeat myself. Haven't I said this like 8 times already? I don't think mDKs have trouble with stamblades, I said it inumerous times and I'll say it again. MagDKs v Stamblades is a favorable matchup for the magDK almost all the time. Just look for my comments and you'll see me saying this every other post.
My issue is simple: making powerlash dodgeable is counter inuitive once the mechanic that procs it demands and immediate roll dodge, making mDK feel clunky and not fluid at all. What made mDK interesting was how it's mechanics ressonated with every other skill. It has nothing to do with stamblades, it has to do with magDK general playstyle.3 -
FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »How are you going to outheal 15k tooltip power lashes, undodgeable embers, 20k tooltip leaps, FoB projectiles, Skoria procs?
If you've got 15k whip tooltip you're most likely 1 shot material. Any decent stamblade will be able to kill you with a fear/incap combo. Moreover, with that high damage build, you should be able to relaibly kill medium armor targets, you're a glass cannon.
You can't simultaneously be "1 shot material" and "be able to reliably kill medium armor targets". It's one or the other (you don't kill anything while dead).
I have my build here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/387047/video-decimus-magicka-dragonknight-pvp
You tell me if I'm "getting one shot".How are you going to keep your distance when a mag DK has Empowering Chains slotted?
Chains is a super glitchy skill when it comes to z-axis casting. I tried it too. Apart from that, it's almost impossible to be able to slot chains and have an mDK build that capable of competing in something apart from pug stomping, as DKs need other very important utility skills to perform properly.
Never had a problem with Chains. If you don't slot them, you don't get to complain about medium armor builds. That skill is a must have for any serious magicka DK interested in 1v1 or 1vX.
That is the worst stamblade combo you could've come up with.
All you get in terms of damage is one Incap (capped at 8371 damage against me even for the highest dmg gankblade), what you should be looking at is using the Incap as CC & comboing it with Relentless (which is capped at 19 473 dmg even for the highest dmg gankblade).
I've calculated everything & built my character to withstand everything.
This is a delusional claim. Making your main form of DPS, which is only granted after telling your opponent to rolldodge a dodgeable skill us by no means a buff.If there's anyone with L2P issues it's you, complaining when mDKs are getting buffed against most builds in the game.
Have you been on PTS? If you have, you'll most likely agree with me that slotting whip on your bar is basically useless, as it's really, really, really rare to ever hit an opponent with it.
Yes, I have.
Currently dueling a heavy armor DW/2H stamblade & being very grateful for that extra Power Lash heal up time, it is working just as I thought it would.
My in game @ is DDuke as well.
You are a straight liar.
Chains is a must for 1v1 or 1vX???
HA HA HA HA HA, this one comment proves you have no clue wtf a magdk build even is
Yes, it is.
Alternative is coming here to the forums & QQing about DK lacking mobility, mean dodge roll builds bullying you & whatnot
While I'm all about build diversity and having a strong diversity of builds to choose from, one can't really complain about certain builds when you have skills available to counter them.
Imagine this, even medium stamblades (you know, the people with Shuffle, Cloak, Shadow Image, dodge rolls, faster sprint etc) tend to slot a gap closer (atleast in open world). They have good mobility, yet they still feel like a gap closer is necessary. Why do you think that is the case?
Magicka DK on the other hand has very low base mobility, no class access to Major Expedition, almost entirely melee based damage. Yet they have access to the strongest gap closer in the game (undodgeable, Major Expedition, Major Empower).
And some [snip]s laugh at it because they have no clue on how to build a viable character.
But hey, I'm fine with that. I'll be kiting these people on my ranged builds and getting easy kills while they complain about lack of mobility and execute and whatnot.
"easy kills"
You go ahead and keep spamming Light's Champion and Healing Ward as your health stays below 30% against some low-CP players who spam Flame Clench, and I'll keep listening to magDKs who have more damage output and better survival due to having magnitudes more experience and knowledge they can relate about the class in regards to these changes.2 -
FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭Decimus, let he understnad this properly. So you're saying we complain that we have no mobility while we have chains. Ok, so can I complain that stamblades aren't using heavy armor and should stop QQing about undodgeable lashes?
Yes and no.
If I were actually playing stamblade right now in medium armor & QQing about stamblade being *** when the logical solution is equipping Heavy Armor+TK (and maybe S&B for extra cheese), then yes.
Stamblade is a killing machine in heavy.
However, what you're doing here is complaining about a very specific kind of DK having trouble against medium armor builds, yet casting it as a general DK issue (which it isn't).
You need to understand that there are DK builds that absolutely destroy medium armor dodge rollers currently, largely thanks to undodgeable Power Lash.
Downside of these builds is that they don't tank zergs and they're more vulnerable to burst (before you start, this burst is not a problem in 1v1 scenario), unlike S&B which has more trouble killing people with TK but can survive burst better (though Defile is a problem) and has a defense that scales better vs multiple people (block) than Healing Ward.
Oh my days, can we stop this already?However, what you're doing here is complaining about a very specific kind of DK having trouble against medium armor builds, yet casting it as a general DK issue (which it isn't).
Why do I need to repeat myself. Haven't I said this like 8 times already? I don't think mDKs have trouble with stamblades, I said it inumerous times and I'll say it again. MagDKs v Stamblades is a favorable matchup for the magDK almost all the time. Just look for my comments and you'll see me saying this every other post.
My issue is simple: making powerlash dodgeable is counter inuitive once the mechanic that procs it demands and immediate roll dodge, making mDK feel clunky and not fluid at all. What made mDK interesting was how it's mechanics ressonated with every other skill. It has nothing to do with stamblades, it has to do with magDK general playstyle.
EXACTLY.
Talons and the root from Fossilize now work AGAINST Power Lash!
The idea that magDK can use its CCs and status effects to line up unique combos is now pretty dead in the water.
It totally ruins a years-old rotation that had nothing wrong with it in the first place.Edited by FlamingBeard on 25 January 2018 18:551 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Decimus, let he understnad this properly. So you're saying we complain that we have no mobility while we have chains. Ok, so can I complain that stamblades aren't using heavy armor and should stop QQing about undodgeable lashes?
Yes and no.
If I were actually playing stamblade right now in medium armor & QQing about stamblade being *** when the logical solution is equipping Heavy Armor+TK (and maybe S&B for extra cheese), then yes.
Stamblade is a killing machine in heavy.
However, what you're doing here is complaining about a very specific kind of DK having trouble against medium armor builds, yet casting it as a general DK issue (which it isn't).
You need to understand that there are DK builds that absolutely destroy medium armor dodge rollers currently, largely thanks to undodgeable Power Lash.
Downside of these builds is that they don't tank zergs and they're more vulnerable to burst (before you start, this burst is not a problem in 1v1 scenario), unlike S&B which has more trouble killing people with TK but can survive burst better (though Defile is a problem) and has a defense that scales better vs multiple people (block) than Healing Ward.
Oh my days, can we stop this already?However, what you're doing here is complaining about a very specific kind of DK having trouble against medium armor builds, yet casting it as a general DK issue (which it isn't).
Why do I need to repeat myself. Haven't I said this like 8 times already? I don't think mDKs have trouble with stamblades, I said it inumerous times and I'll say it again. MagDKs v Stamblades is a favorable matchup for the magDK almost all the time. Just look for my comments and you'll see me saying this every other post.
My issue is simple: making powerlash dodgeable is counter inuitive once the mechanic that procs it demands and immediate roll dodge, making mDK feel clunky and not fluid at all. What made mDK interesting was how it's mechanics ressonated with every other skill. It has nothing to do with stamblades, it has to do with magDK general playstyle.
Playing on PTS, the playstyle is pretty much the same for me. Fossilize on cooldown->Flame Lash->Power Lash (if dodge roller opponent, it's sometimes dodged here) etc etc. Nothing has changed except that dodge rollers can now survive a bit better if they outplay their opponent.
You can still outplay the dodge roller by changing up your rotations and being unpredictable, i.e. Fossilize->Flame Lash->Leap instead of Fossilize->Flame Lash->Power Lash, Fossilize->Embers->Flame Lash etc etc
If anything, the changes have made it more fun to play mDK because I don't just do the same rotation over and over again and get a free kill basically.
Oh, and asking the dodge roller builds that I've fought on both Live & PTS - they're finding the match up more fair & enjoyable now (well, as enjoyable as fighting a high dmg mDK with gap closer can get). Isn't that most important in the end, that everyone is enjoying the game?Edited by DDuke on 25 January 2018 19:110 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Decimus, let me undersand this properly. So you're saying we complain that we have no mobility while we have chains. Ok, so can I complain that stamblades aren't using heavy armor and should stop QQing about undodgeable lashes?
How about we give Wings a morph which removes snares and gives a 20% dmg protection for x (3?) seconds (but no more reflect) and leave Power Lash dodgeable?I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.0 -
FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Decimus, let me undersand this properly. So you're saying we complain that we have no mobility while we have chains. Ok, so can I complain that stamblades aren't using heavy armor and should stop QQing about undodgeable lashes?
How about we give Wings a morph which removes snares and gives a 20% dmg protection for x (3?) seconds (but no more reflect) and leave Power Lash dodgeable?
At that point why not just give them Minor Protection (8% damage mitigation) but for a longer period (like Ice Fortress or Rune Focus)?
However as has been said before, a huge problem for DK is difficulty sustaining resources and self-healing when under pressure, not mitigating damage.
Simply lower their skill costs more (past cost reductions have had helped sustain very little if at all) or rebuff Battle Roar to achieve that goal.
Snare removal would be convenient but I think many magDK players would rather ask for better heals or cheaper skills because that's more likely to be acknowledged by ZOS.Edited by FlamingBeard on 25 January 2018 19:490 -
Calboy✭✭✭✭✭alot of people in this thread talking about the lack of mdk mobility yet mdk's have the best gap closer in the game about to get even stronger.2 -
DarkGottbeard✭✭✭With that idea in mind, rooting instinctively provokes a rolldodge reaction, and due to how the timing on powerlash procced, it'd hit players that mindlessly rolldodges away from the mDKs grasp - requiring thought process behind fighting a DK and making the game more interestingly rich. Best part of it, is that this mechanic had counterplay and is commonly applied by patient players; which is normally blocking while rooted and roll dodging after successfully blocking the incoming powerlash. This sole mechanic enriched the game making your decisions reflect on the final outcome of the fight and made powerlash resonate with the general playstyle of the class.
All of this combined ruined the fluidity and the admiration I had for mDKs mechanics. You rooting people (basically telling them to rolldodge) just to have a proc that comes from that very same root dodged. The combination of the root and the undodgeable proc that came after that enriched mDKs playstyle, made it fit, made it fluid. Please understand I'm not here asking for mDKs buffs, I said it before and I'll say it again, mDKs are an exceptional class. We just aren't in a position where we can take nerfs like this. ZOS, please think about the undodgeable lash more thoroughly, there are better solutions for the offbalance change and I bet that skilled and proficient mDKs will open a whole new fan of options to refine this class in this (and other threads).
I love how someone re-actively dodging a out of a bind to avoid a telegraphed power lash is somehow mindless gameplay. But its apparently supposed to be your god given right to mindlessly cast Bind> whip> powerwhip. If counterplay is so "engaging" then how about you bind>whip> empowering chains> powerwhip... OR Bind>Whip> Petrify> powerwhip> re-bind> whip> power whip.... Or Bind> whip> wait half a second> s and B heavy weave power whip for 5k stam return. If you don't want someone defensively countering your predictable atks then don't be predictable.Switching targets mid fight is an important aspect of PvP and not being able to set target B offbalance when needed might prove to be a real obstacle to mDKs overall performance in Open World scenarios.
I don't See switching targets to be a problem at all. You have to meet the trigger condition on power whip anyway. If you are on target A. and you talons target A and B. You can change to B then >whip> power whip. it only takes 2 moves to waste the cooldown on power whip and those 2 moves are the required triggering conditions anyway. Bind or CC> whip to off balance> Power whip> rinse repeat literally into infinite.2 -
Jjitsuboy98✭✭✭✭alot of people in this thread talking about the lack of mdk mobility yet mdk's have the best gap closer in the game about to get even stronger.
This1 -
Jjitsuboy98✭✭✭✭@Quantum_V @FlamingBeard
You guys are saying that @DDuke is so bad but do either of you have any videos showing us what good Magicka DK 1vX looks like? I would love to see them as I have jumped off the sword and board style now for over a month. I'm not trying to pick sides to this argument but he's offered to test anything via PTS with anyone which goes a long way. You can argue different views and stuff but don't say that his build is bad because it's not. I use almost the same thing. One of the best duelers on PS4 runs something similar but I know duels don't mean much for open world. Sword and board DK is not really great solo open world or DKs in general. I watched kodis stream the other day and he was getting killed all the time when he played mag dk. At least in this setup I can burst people down quick man quicker than you think. And when most of Cyrodil is bad players that kind of build helps.
As far as people saying mag dk is OP in duels, I personally don't find it any more satisfying to play in a duel when compared to a heavy Stam nightblade, heavy warden, pet sorc etc etc.
As far as chains go it is one of the best gap closers I have ever used. I heard for years it was garbage and I remember using it when it was broken but since I have been using it again I have not had one problem with it. It's now a must have.
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krathos✭✭✭✭✭Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »@Quantum_V @FlamingBeard
You guys are saying that @DDuke is so bad but do either of you have any videos showing us what good Magicka DK 1vX looks like? I would love to see them as I have jumped off the sword and board style now for over a month. I'm not trying to pick sides to this argument but he's offered to test anything via PTS with anyone which goes a long way. You can argue different views and stuff but don't say that his build is bad because it's not. I use almost the same thing. One of the best duelers on PS4 runs something similar but I know duels don't mean much for open world. Sword and board DK is not really great solo open world or DKs in general. I watched kodis stream the other day and he was getting killed all the time when he played mag dk. At least in this setup I can burst people down quick man quicker than you think. And when most of Cyrodil is bad players that kind of build helps.
As far as people saying mag dk is OP in duels, I personally don't find it any more satisfying to play in a duel when compared to a heavy Stam nightblade, heavy warden, pet sorc etc etc.
As far as chains go it is one of the best gap closers I have ever used. I heard for years it was garbage and I remember using it when it was broken but since I have been using it again I have not had one problem with it. It's now a must have.
I’ve tried it recently and it still has pathing issues compared to other gap closers which is frustrating.
Flapjack Palmdale
<ANIMOSITY>
Grand Overlord - Magicka Dragonknight1 -
Inig0✭✭✭✭After reading your comparison or rather lack there of to merciless I came to the idea of perhaps making flame lash behave like merciless where instead of the skill gaining that feature from targeting a player that is off-balance. Instead when you cause a player to become off-balance you gain a buff (similar to merciless) which allows you to use or not use in some time period like merciless.
What i mean by this:
you cause someone or something to become off-balance --> flame lash then procs --> you have 10sec (arbitrary) to use it --> after you use it you cannot proc flame lash from an off balance target for 3 sec.
Or perhaps some system like that where its a conditional proc instead of a targets conditional status.
On the idea of it being dodge-able. I feel torn.
the argument for --> its a proc skill that should land 100% if the target is in range
the argument against --> dks have enough things that go through dodge (deep breath, leap, and anything else i might be
missing) and dont need high single target damage that also goes through dodge.
Another argument against (unfortunately) i would compare the lash proc to frags potentially? Which does similar damage (arguable) and is and always has been dodge-able.GM: Mechanically Challenged
In game - @Inig0
Sorc - Inigo- Beautiful Chocolate Man
NB - Raphiki - Beautiful Chocolate Man
Temp - Ineegø - ınıgo
DK - Inigø - Alfeus - Down for Maintenance
Warden - Help I Made a Warden
PC NA
Youtube Stuffs
Only the best memes die twice0 -
FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭alot of people in this thread talking about the lack of mdk mobility yet mdk's have the best gap closer in the game about to get even stronger.
Best gap closer in the game? Maybe on paper, but not in usage.
And about to get stronger?
"We’ve decreased the damage values on numerous gap closer abilities – not just Teleport Strike, but other charge abilities such as Critical Charge or Focused Charge as well. Gap closers in ESO have no cooldown and can hit for extreme amounts of damage, so there is very little opportunity cost in forcing your enemies to use them. Decreasing their damage ensures that ranged players utilizing movement and terrain to maintain their distance are better rewarded for that advantage."
If by "stronger" you mean other gap closers are getting nerfed then.. I guess you could technically say that?
It's more likely that ZOS realizes nearly nobody uses magDK's chains to gap close so they chose to not smash it with a nerf hammer.
So if that was your point, you kind of defeated yourself there.
---After reading your comparison or rather lack there of to merciless I came to the idea of perhaps making flame lash behave like merciless where instead of the skill gaining that feature from targeting a player that is off-balance. Instead when you cause a player to become off-balance you gain a buff (similar to merciless) which allows you to use or not use in some time period like merciless.
What i mean by this:
you cause someone or something to become off-balance --> flame lash then procs --> you have 10sec (arbitrary) to use it --> after you use it you cannot proc flame lash from an off balance target for 3 sec.
Or perhaps some system like that where its a conditional proc instead of a targets conditional status.
On the idea of it being dodge-able. I feel torn.
the argument for --> its a proc skill that should land 100% if the target is in range
the argument against --> dks have enough things that go through dodge (deep breath, leap, and anything else i might be
missing) and dont need high single target damage that also goes through dodge.
Another argument against (unfortunately) i would compare the lash proc to frags potentially? Which does similar damage (arguable) and is and always has been dodge-able.
I wouldn't compare a ranged damage proc that has no cooldown to a melee damage proc which has MUCH stricter proc conditions as well as a forced cooldown.
Not very comparable, nearly at all except that they're both called "procs."Edited by FlamingBeard on 25 January 2018 22:051 -
Inig0✭✭✭✭FlamingBeard wrote: »alot of people in this thread talking about the lack of mdk mobility yet mdk's have the best gap closer in the game about to get even stronger.
Best gap closer in the game? Maybe on paper, but not in usage.
And about to get stronger?
"We’ve decreased the damage values on numerous gap closer abilities – not just Teleport Strike, but other charge abilities such as Critical Charge or Focused Charge as well. Gap closers in ESO have no cooldown and can hit for extreme amounts of damage, so there is very little opportunity cost in forcing your enemies to use them. Decreasing their damage ensures that ranged players utilizing movement and terrain to maintain their distance are better rewarded for that advantage."
If by "stronger" you mean other gap closers are getting nerfed then.. I guess you could technically say that?
It's more likely that ZOS realizes nearly nobody uses magDK's chains to gap close so they chose to not smash it with a nerf hammer.
So if that was your point, you kind of defeated yourself there.
---After reading your comparison or rather lack there of to merciless I came to the idea of perhaps making flame lash behave like merciless where instead of the skill gaining that feature from targeting a player that is off-balance. Instead when you cause a player to become off-balance you gain a buff (similar to merciless) which allows you to use or not use in some time period like merciless.
What i mean by this:
you cause someone or something to become off-balance --> flame lash then procs --> you have 10sec (arbitrary) to use it --> after you use it you cannot proc flame lash from an off balance target for 3 sec.
Or perhaps some system like that where its a conditional proc instead of a targets conditional status.
On the idea of it being dodge-able. I feel torn.
the argument for --> its a proc skill that should land 100% if the target is in range
the argument against --> dks have enough things that go through dodge (deep breath, leap, and anything else i might be
missing) and dont need high single target damage that also goes through dodge.
Another argument against (unfortunately) i would compare the lash proc to frags potentially? Which does similar damage (arguable) and is and always has been dodge-able.
I wouldn't compare a ranged damage proc that has no cooldown to a melee damage proc which has MUCH stricter proc conditions as well as a forced cooldown.
Not very comparable, nearly at all except that they're both called "procs."
Thats fair, i was hesitant to compare them at all (hence the question marked potentially.) The purpose to compare them at all is the fact that its shares more similarities than most other class skills. Same with merciless like how the OP mentioned in the initial post. Also to kind of appeal to everyone who might not play each class; all three of those abilities are single target medium to high damage 'proc' skills. All of which define their class as their breakd and butter damaging thing. in fact whip might be the least class defining out of those skills considering how iconic leap is and became for magdk with the flame damage morph.
I would like you to explore some of the other things mentioned instead of just the easiest thing to point at and claim to be a wrong claim.
Would you say giving it a buff status like merciless would help?
Would you say dks have a lot of skills that go through dodge?
Whats your argument that you could make for it being dodgeable and an argument that you could make against it being dodgeable.GM: Mechanically Challenged
In game - @Inig0
Sorc - Inigo- Beautiful Chocolate Man
NB - Raphiki - Beautiful Chocolate Man
Temp - Ineegø - ınıgo
DK - Inigø - Alfeus - Down for Maintenance
Warden - Help I Made a Warden
PC NA
Youtube Stuffs
Only the best memes die twice0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
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My issue is simple: making powerlash dodgeable is counter inuitive once the mechanic that procs it demands and immediate roll dodge, making mDK feel clunky and not fluid at all. What made mDK interesting was how it's mechanics ressonated with every other skill. It has nothing to do with stamblades, it has to do with magDK general playstyle.
So you want guaranteed power lashes against people who play good against you and actively use game mechanics to counter you. So according to you sorc frags should be unreflectable and undodgeable because their visual cues and travel time make it easy to counter and make the whole rotation feel clunky.
You literally want to punish good play. Can you even comprehend how absurd that sounds?
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FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭
My issue is simple: making powerlash dodgeable is counter inuitive once the mechanic that procs it demands and immediate roll dodge, making mDK feel clunky and not fluid at all. What made mDK interesting was how it's mechanics ressonated with every other skill. It has nothing to do with stamblades, it has to do with magDK general playstyle.
So you want guaranteed power lashes against people who play good against you and actively use game mechanics to counter you. So according to you sorc frags should be unreflectable and undodgeable because their visual cues and travel time make it easy to counter and make the whole rotation feel clunky.
You literally want to punish good play. Can you even comprehend how absurd that sounds?
"Good play" would be staying away from the magDK in the first place, because its goal is to immobilize and burn you down at melee range.
You used to be punished for staying in magDK's immediate range and now any decent medium build running Shuffle will avoid at least half of Power Lashes attempted and whittle the magDK down with defiles and snares that stamina builds love so much.
If you want to play a squishy medium build against a berserker class, accept that balance-wise, you SHOULD be at a disadvantage because you can escape at any time should you choose to.1