Tanks in Battlegrounds Discussion Thread

RapidUrsa

I'm interested to know what are everyone's thought on a tanks place in battlegrounds! Required or not?

Thogard

Not required. Some Mag DKs that are run primarily for DPS and CC could be classified as tanks, but the tankiness is not why they're run. Same with some heavy wearing magplars...

All characters in BGs should be hard to kill, but they need to do damage and heal as well.

paulsimonps

You need to be able to kill in BGs, I am a tank, its what I do, but I had to change my regular cyrodiil build for something else in there. I am still really tanky, but not as much as before, but now I can kill people. Its important to be able to kill and survive.

Chilly-McFreeze

paulsimonps wrote: »

You need to be able to kill in BGs, I am a tank, its what I do, but I had to change my regular cyrodiil build for something else in there. I am still really tanky, but not as much as before, but now I can kill people. Its important to be able to kill and survive.

What about those ultra-survivability builds in CTR? It's rather annoying in a mode that offers you so little for actually stomping guys.

Koensol

Tanks can be really good in BG. Blocktards in particular. In cap the flag and domination they can be a real hassle for the other team.

paulsimonps

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

You need to be able to kill in BGs, I am a tank, its what I do, but I had to change my regular cyrodiil build for something else in there. I am still really tanky, but not as much as before, but now I can kill people. Its important to be able to kill and survive.

What about those ultra-survivability builds in CTR? It's rather annoying in a mode that offers you so little for actually stomping guys.

Tried it, didn't really work, speed is more important, if you get snare or rooted then its over. A tanks survivablity usually lies in them blocking, not only are you slower when you block but you can't permablock in non CP PvP such as BGs. If they get jumped by the enemy team they will most likely fall, even if it takes a little longer than usual.

idk

paulsimonps wrote: »

You need to be able to kill in BGs, I am a tank, its what I do, but I had to change my regular cyrodiil build for something else in there. I am still really tanky, but not as much as before, but now I can kill people. Its important to be able to kill and survive.

^^^. @paulsimonps brought up a good point about tanks in BGs a few weeks ago. They don't do enough damage to get assists so they lose out on medals. Being tanky yet being able to do some damage helps get those assist points.

paulsimonps

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

You need to be able to kill in BGs, I am a tank, its what I do, but I had to change my regular cyrodiil build for something else in there. I am still really tanky, but not as much as before, but now I can kill people. Its important to be able to kill and survive.

^^^. @paulsimonps brought up a good point about tanks in BGs a few weeks ago. They don't do enough damage to get assists so they lose out on medals. Being tanky yet being able to do some damage helps get those assist points.

That as well indeed.

Soleya

paulsimonps wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

You need to be able to kill in BGs, I am a tank, its what I do, but I had to change my regular cyrodiil build for something else in there. I am still really tanky, but not as much as before, but now I can kill people. Its important to be able to kill and survive.

What about those ultra-survivability builds in CTR? It's rather annoying in a mode that offers you so little for actually stomping guys.

Tried it, didn't really work, speed is more important, if you get snare or rooted then its over. A tanks survivablity usually lies in them blocking, not only are you slower when you block but you can't permablock in non CP PvP such as BGs. If they get jumped by the enemy team they will most likely fall, even if it takes a little longer than usual.

There is a possible strategy that could work with tank in CTF. Say you are on green team, tank grabs purple relic and runs partway toward orange side, it takes the whole purple team to kill tank. While that is happening your fast runner is waiting by purple relic spawn. Tank dies, relic goes back, purple grabs it and runs it to their base. Tank in their sacrifice pulled purple far enough away they can't catch up to the runner now.

Of course that only works if Orange doesn't interfere.

Jitterbug

Soleya wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

You need to be able to kill in BGs, I am a tank, its what I do, but I had to change my regular cyrodiil build for something else in there. I am still really tanky, but not as much as before, but now I can kill people. Its important to be able to kill and survive.

What about those ultra-survivability builds in CTR? It's rather annoying in a mode that offers you so little for actually stomping guys.

Tried it, didn't really work, speed is more important, if you get snare or rooted then its over. A tanks survivablity usually lies in them blocking, not only are you slower when you block but you can't permablock in non CP PvP such as BGs. If they get jumped by the enemy team they will most likely fall, even if it takes a little longer than usual.

There is a possible strategy that could work with tank in CTF. Say you are on green team, tank grabs purple relic and runs partway toward orange side, it takes the whole purple team to kill tank. While that is happening your fast runner is waiting by purple relic spawn. Tank dies, relic goes back, purple grabs it and runs it to their base. Tank in their sacrifice pulled purple far enough away they can't catch up to the runner now.

Of course that only works if Orange doesn't interfere.

Yeah I would like to see 2-way BGs some day

paulsimonps

Soleya wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

You need to be able to kill in BGs, I am a tank, its what I do, but I had to change my regular cyrodiil build for something else in there. I am still really tanky, but not as much as before, but now I can kill people. Its important to be able to kill and survive.

What about those ultra-survivability builds in CTR? It's rather annoying in a mode that offers you so little for actually stomping guys.

Tried it, didn't really work, speed is more important, if you get snare or rooted then its over. A tanks survivablity usually lies in them blocking, not only are you slower when you block but you can't permablock in non CP PvP such as BGs. If they get jumped by the enemy team they will most likely fall, even if it takes a little longer than usual.

There is a possible strategy that could work with tank in CTF. Say you are on green team, tank grabs purple relic and runs partway toward orange side, it takes the whole purple team to kill tank. While that is happening your fast runner is waiting by purple relic spawn. Tank dies, relic goes back, purple grabs it and runs it to their base. Tank in their sacrifice pulled purple far enough away they can't catch up to the runner now.

Of course that only works if Orange doesn't interfere.

that would also give the tank Zero medals, and he would not get any praise.

Chilly-McFreeze

Solid point with the points, Paul. I'm someone who doesn't really care for leaderboards and medals, only for the team to win. But it seems like BG brings out anything but the best of us.

Edit: I mean the scoring, e.g. Killsteal. Nothing personal.

ExcaliburESO

When i imagine what would happen if cp would be enabled there xD everyone would be tank and it would be such *** fest lol

Soleya

paulsimonps wrote: »

Soleya wrote: »

There is a possible strategy that could work with tank in CTF. Say you are on green team, tank grabs purple relic and runs partway toward orange side, it takes the whole purple team to kill tank. While that is happening your fast runner is waiting by purple relic spawn. Tank dies, relic goes back, purple grabs it and runs it to their base. Tank in their sacrifice pulled purple far enough away they can't catch up to the runner now.

Of course that only works if Orange doesn't interfere.

that would also give the tank Zero medals, and he would not get any praise.

We needed to win a battleground for midyear mayhem event. Our group consisted of 3 DPS (one more heals than dps for this) and 1 tank (trials tank). The dps/healer and tank don't PVP, nor have any pvp gear. After losing multiple matches we tried a new strategy when domination came up. Our tank stood on center flag by herself, while the rest of us capped and killed players. At one point both teams were fighting her on the center flag and couldn't kill her, that gave us time to cap more of the outer flags. We were able to win the match with this strategy.

So yes, a tank can be a viable battlegrounds role, but really only in objective modes. And our tank got plenty of praise and score.

nCats

I keep bumping in tanks constantly, especially in premades with more than one Templar tank. The latter setup can also run a sorc kill stealer, gradually juicing out the enemies and finishing them.

I personally find such gameplay not too amusing for both sides but there you have it.

Thogard

Jitterbug wrote: »

Soleya wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

You need to be able to kill in BGs, I am a tank, its what I do, but I had to change my regular cyrodiil build for something else in there. I am still really tanky, but not as much as before, but now I can kill people. Its important to be able to kill and survive.

What about those ultra-survivability builds in CTR? It's rather annoying in a mode that offers you so little for actually stomping guys.

Tried it, didn't really work, speed is more important, if you get snare or rooted then its over. A tanks survivablity usually lies in them blocking, not only are you slower when you block but you can't permablock in non CP PvP such as BGs. If they get jumped by the enemy team they will most likely fall, even if it takes a little longer than usual.

There is a possible strategy that could work with tank in CTF. Say you are on green team, tank grabs purple relic and runs partway toward orange side, it takes the whole purple team to kill tank. While that is happening your fast runner is waiting by purple relic spawn. Tank dies, relic goes back, purple grabs it and runs it to their base. Tank in their sacrifice pulled purple far enough away they can't catch up to the runner now.

Of course that only works if Orange doesn't interfere.

Yeah I would like to see 2-way BGs some day

This guy gets it.

Tanks are useless in CTF because of the lack of speed. CTF is less about safely running your relic back and more about grabbing the enemy's relics to prevent them from scoring, then forcing s fight which you win and wipe the other team while sending your relic back. Tanks don't really have a role in that.

Tanks can be effective in domination, but only against an unorganized team. Any good team's sorc will slot a negate and that will wipe out the whole "I'm going to spam heal here and not move" strategy.

The builds that my premade has the hardest time are the 2x magplar builds where everyone runs mist form. We usually run Stam DK, Stam warden, mag sorc and magplar but if our magplar gets focused and dies (even though sorc and magplar run resto ult and warden runs LSD forest thingy) then we're gonna lose.

MurderMostFoul

Soleya wrote: »

Our tank stood on center flag by herself, while the rest of us capped and killed players. At one point both teams were fighting her on the center flag and couldn't kill her...

This is what tanks are capable of in BGs. As a damage dealer, it is very frustrating. And this tankiness is not just effective in Domination. In Deathmatch, if a team sticks together with an ultra-tanky healer, they are almost unbeatable. You try to go after the healer, they heal-through/shrug off your damage. You try to get the other teammates, and (unless they are very squishy) the healer keeps them up while they unload.

This morning, a tanky-healing Warden took a PotL/Crescent Sweep/Shooting Star combo to the face from my team and didn't flinch.

Now, I do feel like they are kinda pointless in CTR where speed rules.

HeathenDeacon

people complain about a ton of balance issues in pvp, but to be completely honest the overtankiness of some builds is the most blaring of all of them IMO.

ToRelax

Running a tank would make more sense if one would actually mostly fight other premades as a premade group.
In solo queue, you won't have the team to make use of a tank.

MurderMostFoul

HeathenDeacon wrote: »

people complain about a ton of balance issues in pvp, but to be completely honest the overtankiness of some builds is the most blaring of all of them IMO.

I wasn't going to mention the B word, but now that it's come up, I have to agree with you on this point.

It'll be interesting to see some tank action in the new chaosball mode.

RouDeR

I deal almost 2 million damage as a tank in this video , so with that being said:
The only true tank that can deal significant amount of damage is Warden , i run so cancerous setup that i win 90% of the matches by myself no matter the mode . And yeah Permablock is real even for NoCP.
Health wardens need a nerf in terms of healing and damage period.
https://youtu.be/ZZBIeyFA9Hw

Asardes

Can work in domination and for carrying relics, but I don't see much use in death match. And it's not the classical tank build, but rather a 1H+S Magicka DK that roots people but can do a lot of damage too.

MurderMostFoul

RouDeR wrote: »

I deal almost 2 million damage as a tank in this video , so with that being said:
The only true tank that can deal significant amount of damage is Warden , i run so cancerous setup that i win 90% of the matches by myself no matter the mode . And yeah Permablock is real even for NoCP.
Health wardens need a nerf in terms of healing and damage period.
https://youtu.be/ZZBIeyFA9Hw

Pretty epic from your perspective. I'm sure the other teams have different words they would use.

I've come across Wardens like this a few times. I honestly don't know what goes into the build, but it is clearly overpowered. ZOS is doing a few things to lessen the effectiveness of health stacking tanks with the incoming patch. I'm guessing this build will still function very well though.

paulsimonps

RouDeR wrote: »

I deal almost 2 million damage as a tank in this video , so with that being said:
The only true tank that can deal significant amount of damage is Warden , i run so cancerous setup that i win 90% of the matches by myself no matter the mode . And yeah Permablock is real even for NoCP.
Health wardens need a nerf in terms of healing and damage period.
https://youtu.be/ZZBIeyFA9Hw

Explain how? I see no possible way to get enough stamina per second to literally get permanent blocking in no CP. Long blocking period, perhaps, but not permanent. How would you do it?

RouDeR

paulsimonps wrote: »

RouDeR wrote: »

I deal almost 2 million damage as a tank in this video , so with that being said:
The only true tank that can deal significant amount of damage is Warden , i run so cancerous setup that i win 90% of the matches by myself no matter the mode . And yeah Permablock is real even for NoCP.
Health wardens need a nerf in terms of healing and damage period.
https://youtu.be/ZZBIeyFA9Hw

Explain how? I see no possible way to get enough stamina per second to literally get permanent blocking in no CP. Long blocking period, perhaps, but not permanent. How would you do it?

Wardens have passive that restores magika or stamina(lowest resource) everyime they heal ally or themselves + 3 block cost reduction glyphs and 7 heavy and i even dont need to run the green netch for extra stamina return.

Here is a video with attributes and skills turned off i just switched the scoria for bloodspawn to ensure my immortality .
https://youtu.be/jJ4TYI8gC48

bubbygink

ExcaliburESO wrote: »

When i imagine what would happen if cp would be enabled there xD everyone would be tank and it would be such *** fest lol

HeathenDeacon wrote: »

people complain about a ton of balance issues in pvp, but to be completely honest the overtankiness of some builds is the most blaring of all of them IMO.

Agree with these points - with CP builds can simply become too tanky. I don't think it is too bad in no-CP though and that is the exact reason why I hope ZOS never allows for CP in BGs. These ultra-tanky builds with CP would be unbearable and just ruin the fun of the matches. I don't want to have 20 stalemate battles in a row.

cpuScientist

Tanks have their place. CTR tanks are hilarious. Just need a speed pot. Got a 60k guy captured one from us. He'd just hold ours, we had both the other teams.amf had to clear the other 7 guys to get to him alone and finally kill him lol. He ran with a tank healplar too. With troll king Soooooo annoying.

DeHei

Tanks are useless in generally!
Only as a relicttaker or in the new chaosball BG is see them not as useless like they are! But every tank is falling down with enough pressure!

Betsararie

Playing a tank in BGs is a cop out.

You've learned you can't kill other players. You've accepted that you likely won't be able to in any reasonable amount of time.

But for some reason, you still really like playing BGs or PvP.

Roll a tank. Get that block up, tree, and just stand there. Loads of fun of course.

Thogard

Realized I already responded in this thread

Taylor_MB

Definitely not required. If you do run a tank though, Guard is a must as well as enough group utility as your class/build can muster (look for things that don't scale with stats; proc sets, utility ultimates/skills).

I've found 1 person who doesn't agree with tanks in BG's, but this reaction just demonstrates their usefulness.


EDIT: Another one! The tank haters are coming out tonight. (my retorts are not very creative, I know)