Magicka Sorcs got WAY to much love...

Anti_Virus · February 2017

CyrusArya wrote: »

@Anti_Virus

Ya man this is what I'm talking about. You have a lot to learn before your commentary on balance should be taken seriously. I can use the point on mines as an example. Literally a non issue on a medium armor build, if you know what you're doing. Casting shuffle gives .5 seconds of immunity to roots and immobilizations per piece of armor equipped. As such, literally all you have to do is cast vigor and then shuffle and you can literally skate thru the mines and lay down burst on the sorc unhindered. The same strategy works in heavy but you have less up time on the immunity, but in heavy you are also significantly harder for the sorc to kill which is where the balance is.

All your commentary is clearly coming from a place of narrow perspective, so while you are entitled to your opinions, I personally am gonna go ahead and dismiss em. Also, stop trying to force rigid roles and play styles on to classes. Clearly that's against the ESO design philosophy.

PS: Stam DK is an extremely good class...when you talk as if the class is gimped it makes me take you even less seriously.

1. I Don't run shuffle, nor should I be forced to run it people already complain that its OP on heavy armor builds

2. I'm not dictating how sorcs should be balance you keep tha false assumption up, all im doing is stating that mSorc was a good class before these buffs and in my Opinion weren't needed, I never advocated to nerf sorc no mater what Minalan will say, you don't need to agree with my opinion but it doesn't make me wrong or stupid like nellzar would say.

3. Not forcing class roles again just giving my opinion on how classes should play, any class can tank/heal but most have a defined role.

Game says play the way you want, but I don't see DK healers, Sorc tanks, or Archer builds atm why is that?

4. Just because I'm a stam dk doesn't mean I'm wearing Black rose/Reactive/Fury or any proc sets. Keep that in mind what about these DKs? Should I just suck it up and wear them because it works? I could say the same for mSorcs to wear bone pirate monster set for defense.

thankyourat · February 2017

Lord-Otto wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

You don't understand

@Anti_Virus

You're the one who doesn't understand. If you think its impossible to eat thru a shield stack as a stamina character then you aren't playing a stamina character right and you've never seen one played right. A lot of the arguments you make, regarding how sorcs should be based around kiting and should't be able to face tank like a dk sound like the typical rhetoric thrown around by people who have no experience whatsoever on sorc. Kiting w/o shield stacking is not very effective when gap closers allow anyone to stay within melee range. A sorc can't face tank like a dk when being faced by multiple competent opponents, because shields simply don't scale with multiple sources of aggro like healing and blocking do. Daedric mines are a great skill against scrubs, who freak out and have no idea how to play against him. But once you figure out the strategy on how to counter them they are quite literally a cake-walk and can be danced around and through.

I play multiple classes and sorcs feel plenty balanced right now. If you don't play a sorc, I can see why you might think some of the things you do. But making such strong arguments without perspective is foolish. If you DO play sorc and are on PC NA, I would love to duel you on my DK or Templar so I can demonstrate some of the points I'm making.

1. Yeah this ideal is based of the the same actuation that all stamina builds run proc sets not all Im included and if you read my post to Minalan about CP placement againt Stam builds

2.yes mSorc is a ranged dps class you have Kite machanics A teleport and Mine field but you wear light armor and play from range you should kite and maintain distance and some form a ranged in a fight to be effective, the problem is most sorcs like NBs want to face tank like a Dk and have high dmg

3. I never said kite with out shield stacking making up words here to argue a false point. No one should be able to face tank and deal dmg when facing multiple opponents in an AvAvA game, bring allies along.

4. Not really, Block doesn't scale with multiple people since it drains stam and doesn't recover, You can Out dmg healing so no here, and roll dodge although it does scale with multiple people it cannot be abused since it has a stacking cost increase, addtionaly not all attacks can be dodged.

5. No, the Dmg of Mines is not the problem it's all about the root which is the key roots are krytonites for melee builds since they arw forced to roll and cannot move potentially 5 times, then you can teleport and reposition drop mines again and even the storm Atro, embrace this skill since it hasn't received any nerfs for how powerful it is.

Sorc is fine now Although these buffs were not nessiary next patch I expect some sDK buffs. The problem with mSorcs and sNBs is people try to play the class differently than it was designed.

NB => Glass cannon assassin fights gurellia warfare style and it not confrontational.
Survivability through:
- Dodge
- Stealth
- Ally Agro

Sorc=> Glass cannon mage fights from safety of range
Summons pets to aid in battle and is not confrontational
Survivability through:
-distance
- Shields
- Kiting
- ally agro

For both classes can't have your cake and eat it too if you want survivability you give up dmg and vice versa. I would definitely fight you but Im on PS4 NA.

Why the hell do you keep saying mines are a kite mechanic? I play a stam DK and mines are a joke, I can run around in them all day and the root is a moot point, you have anti-root mechanics if you have half a brain.

Streak is most definitely NOT a root mechanic. If gap closers like crit charge had a 15 second cooldown on them like in most other MMOs, sure it could be considered a kite tool (assuming it had multiple charges).

Saying mSorcs should be glass canons like NBs is just ignorant. A NB (stamblade) has infinitely more kiting/escapability than an mSorc. When I'm on a msorc on my DK he has LITERALLY 0% chance of getting away from me. I'm on him 100% from the start of the fight.

The 'mage' class in most games has never historically been a class canon. Yes they always wear light or cloth armor, but they've always had multiple defensive tools to either kite (impossible in ESO), shield, buff their armor with spells, or 100% immunity tools.

Your argument is just so blatantly wrong and BIASED (hurr hurr hypocrite) towards stam builds it's crazy. And I've NEVER played a magicka build.

I think people underestimate the power of mines of you are fighting only one person they are very strong at relieving pressure almost op. Bad players will just go stomping through your mines. If a player hours one mine yes it tickles but if they hit 2 or even 3 in a short period that's decent damage to add to your combo. Good players will play around the mines to be sure that they don't get one-shotted by the sorc combo. But then choosing when to attack relieves pressure on you because they aren't constantly in you face. That allows you to free cast you spells while kiting around your mines. Mines are almost useless when fighting alot of people though though some times you can cast it in choke points to relieve pressure but I put them on my overload bar now and put mist form on my back bar. That's working much better.

Streak is strong though compared to other skills sure gap closer spam will counter it but gap closer spam counters everything in the game. It even counters nightblades shade if you drop a shade and people gap close you while you teleport they teleport with you no matter where you teleport to. What makes streak stronger than shade in most situations though is it can be spammed meaning you can use it multiple times. And while gap closers are annoying to streak they completely shut down mist form.

I do think kiting is possible in ESO as long as you aren't seriously outnumbered if it's you vs two or three people you can kite, anymore than that and yes I agree it's almost impossible. I don't think I've ever met a player who could stay on top of me the whole fight. If a player crit rushes you when curse is about to blow up and you have a frag proc they are as good as dead. It's pretty much the same as magblade the other kiting mage class. You can bait then into gap closing so you can burst them. It's actually better if you see a sorcs hands glowing to not stay on top of them to give you a reaction time to block the frag. Sorcs have alot of tools that's great 1v1 but they scale poorly when fighting multiple people. That's pretty much all mag classes though

Wish I was playing on your server...
(<_>)
You can't even kite one player in my campaign. Teh snaaarez make sure of that.
And you're not killing them with a Cursefrag. Hell, you're not even bringing them down to half health. They are that tanky.

Lol it's pretty much the same on my server when you encounter a zerg but I try to stay away from zergs and I pick where I fight at. If I know there is no line of site to kite around I won't fight in that location. If I can't kill them quickly I usually ignore them and kill soft targets first. If they are all tanky then GG you just got zerged down just respawn lol. I also use mist form to help with snares. As long as you stay away from the large groups you won't always be snared to death though. I usually try to bait people to my location for smaller fights. Sure you aren't going to be able to kite multiple people open field. But if you fight by trees or rocks or building you can kite all day on a sorc or magblade because you have range with the destro staff. That's the reason why I enjoy playing destro staff characters. I know for a fact though that you can kite on all the servers because I've seen videos of people doing it all the time. But I agree snares and roots or such a pain. The whole game sometimes feel like it's just tanks rooting you. That won't always be the case though. Sometimes you can still find fun fights.

Lord-Otto · February 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

You don't understand

@Anti_Virus

You're the one who doesn't understand. If you think its impossible to eat thru a shield stack as a stamina character then you aren't playing a stamina character right and you've never seen one played right. A lot of the arguments you make, regarding how sorcs should be based around kiting and should't be able to face tank like a dk sound like the typical rhetoric thrown around by people who have no experience whatsoever on sorc. Kiting w/o shield stacking is not very effective when gap closers allow anyone to stay within melee range. A sorc can't face tank like a dk when being faced by multiple competent opponents, because shields simply don't scale with multiple sources of aggro like healing and blocking do. Daedric mines are a great skill against scrubs, who freak out and have no idea how to play against him. But once you figure out the strategy on how to counter them they are quite literally a cake-walk and can be danced around and through.

I play multiple classes and sorcs feel plenty balanced right now. If you don't play a sorc, I can see why you might think some of the things you do. But making such strong arguments without perspective is foolish. If you DO play sorc and are on PC NA, I would love to duel you on my DK or Templar so I can demonstrate some of the points I'm making.

1. Yeah this ideal is based of the the same actuation that all stamina builds run proc sets not all Im included and if you read my post to Minalan about CP placement againt Stam builds

2.yes mSorc is a ranged dps class you have Kite machanics A teleport and Mine field but you wear light armor and play from range you should kite and maintain distance and some form a ranged in a fight to be effective, the problem is most sorcs like NBs want to face tank like a Dk and have high dmg

3. I never said kite with out shield stacking making up words here to argue a false point. No one should be able to face tank and deal dmg when facing multiple opponents in an AvAvA game, bring allies along.

4. Not really, Block doesn't scale with multiple people since it drains stam and doesn't recover, You can Out dmg healing so no here, and roll dodge although it does scale with multiple people it cannot be abused since it has a stacking cost increase, addtionaly not all attacks can be dodged.

5. No, the Dmg of Mines is not the problem it's all about the root which is the key roots are krytonites for melee builds since they arw forced to roll and cannot move potentially 5 times, then you can teleport and reposition drop mines again and even the storm Atro, embrace this skill since it hasn't received any nerfs for how powerful it is.

Sorc is fine now Although these buffs were not nessiary next patch I expect some sDK buffs. The problem with mSorcs and sNBs is people try to play the class differently than it was designed.

NB => Glass cannon assassin fights gurellia warfare style and it not confrontational.
Survivability through:
- Dodge
- Stealth
- Ally Agro

Sorc=> Glass cannon mage fights from safety of range
Summons pets to aid in battle and is not confrontational
Survivability through:
-distance
- Shields
- Kiting
- ally agro

For both classes can't have your cake and eat it too if you want survivability you give up dmg and vice versa. I would definitely fight you but Im on PS4 NA.

Why the hell do you keep saying mines are a kite mechanic? I play a stam DK and mines are a joke, I can run around in them all day and the root is a moot point, you have anti-root mechanics if you have half a brain.

Streak is most definitely NOT a root mechanic. If gap closers like crit charge had a 15 second cooldown on them like in most other MMOs, sure it could be considered a kite tool (assuming it had multiple charges).

Saying mSorcs should be glass canons like NBs is just ignorant. A NB (stamblade) has infinitely more kiting/escapability than an mSorc. When I'm on a msorc on my DK he has LITERALLY 0% chance of getting away from me. I'm on him 100% from the start of the fight.

The 'mage' class in most games has never historically been a class canon. Yes they always wear light or cloth armor, but they've always had multiple defensive tools to either kite (impossible in ESO), shield, buff their armor with spells, or 100% immunity tools.

Your argument is just so blatantly wrong and BIASED (hurr hurr hypocrite) towards stam builds it's crazy. And I've NEVER played a magicka build.

I think people underestimate the power of mines of you are fighting only one person they are very strong at relieving pressure almost op. Bad players will just go stomping through your mines. If a player hours one mine yes it tickles but if they hit 2 or even 3 in a short period that's decent damage to add to your combo. Good players will play around the mines to be sure that they don't get one-shotted by the sorc combo. But then choosing when to attack relieves pressure on you because they aren't constantly in you face. That allows you to free cast you spells while kiting around your mines. Mines are almost useless when fighting alot of people though though some times you can cast it in choke points to relieve pressure but I put them on my overload bar now and put mist form on my back bar. That's working much better.

Streak is strong though compared to other skills sure gap closer spam will counter it but gap closer spam counters everything in the game. It even counters nightblades shade if you drop a shade and people gap close you while you teleport they teleport with you no matter where you teleport to. What makes streak stronger than shade in most situations though is it can be spammed meaning you can use it multiple times. And while gap closers are annoying to streak they completely shut down mist form.

I do think kiting is possible in ESO as long as you aren't seriously outnumbered if it's you vs two or three people you can kite, anymore than that and yes I agree it's almost impossible. I don't think I've ever met a player who could stay on top of me the whole fight. If a player crit rushes you when curse is about to blow up and you have a frag proc they are as good as dead. It's pretty much the same as magblade the other kiting mage class. You can bait then into gap closing so you can burst them. It's actually better if you see a sorcs hands glowing to not stay on top of them to give you a reaction time to block the frag. Sorcs have alot of tools that's great 1v1 but they scale poorly when fighting multiple people. That's pretty much all mag classes though

Wish I was playing on your server...
(<_>)
You can't even kite one player in my campaign. Teh snaaarez make sure of that.
And you're not killing them with a Cursefrag. Hell, you're not even bringing them down to half health. They are that tanky.

Lol it's pretty much the same on my server when you encounter a zerg but I try to stay away from zergs and I pick where I fight at. If I know there is no line of site to kite around I won't fight in that location. If I can't kill them quickly I usually ignore them and kill soft targets first. If they are all tanky then GG you just got zerged down just respawn lol. I also use mist form to help with snares. As long as you stay away from the large groups you won't always be snared to death though. I usually try to bait people to my location for smaller fights. Sure you aren't going to be able to kite multiple people open field. But if you fight by trees or rocks or building you can kite all day on a sorc or magblade because you have range with the destro staff. That's the reason why I enjoy playing destro staff characters. I know for a fact though that you can kite on all the servers because I've seen videos of people doing it all the time. But I agree snares and roots or such a pain. The whole game sometimes feel like it's just tanks rooting you. That won't always be the case though. Sometimes you can still find fun fights.

Awww, youuu! Trying to get my hopes up, so sweet!
=3
Yeah, last time I tried the whole "pull small group" business, I had ten angry blues behind me who would chase me from Arrius to halfway Kings... They even kept looking for me for another three minutes though I was clearly gone.
x'D
All the time I could read their minds and see how the zerg leader was desperately trying to Fossilize/Chain/Talon me down, while keeping wings up. xDDD
It's that dire in my campaign. It's how 90% of the group fights go. And some fights I have to take, over a resource or keep, etc. Cyrodiil root spam is real and has made it a steaming pile of poop.

Nellzer · February 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

You don't understand

@Anti_Virus

You're the one who doesn't understand. If you think its impossible to eat thru a shield stack as a stamina character then you aren't playing a stamina character right and you've never seen one played right. A lot of the arguments you make, regarding how sorcs should be based around kiting and should't be able to face tank like a dk sound like the typical rhetoric thrown around by people who have no experience whatsoever on sorc. Kiting w/o shield stacking is not very effective when gap closers allow anyone to stay within melee range. A sorc can't face tank like a dk when being faced by multiple competent opponents, because shields simply don't scale with multiple sources of aggro like healing and blocking do. Daedric mines are a great skill against scrubs, who freak out and have no idea how to play against him. But once you figure out the strategy on how to counter them they are quite literally a cake-walk and can be danced around and through.

I play multiple classes and sorcs feel plenty balanced right now. If you don't play a sorc, I can see why you might think some of the things you do. But making such strong arguments without perspective is foolish. If you DO play sorc and are on PC NA, I would love to duel you on my DK or Templar so I can demonstrate some of the points I'm making.

1. Yeah this ideal is based of the the same actuation that all stamina builds run proc sets not all Im included and if you read my post to Minalan about CP placement againt Stam builds

2.yes mSorc is a ranged dps class you have Kite machanics A teleport and Mine field but you wear light armor and play from range you should kite and maintain distance and some form a ranged in a fight to be effective, the problem is most sorcs like NBs want to face tank like a Dk and have high dmg

3. I never said kite with out shield stacking making up words here to argue a false point. No one should be able to face tank and deal dmg when facing multiple opponents in an AvAvA game, bring allies along.

4. Not really, Block doesn't scale with multiple people since it drains stam and doesn't recover, You can Out dmg healing so no here, and roll dodge although it does scale with multiple people it cannot be abused since it has a stacking cost increase, addtionaly not all attacks can be dodged.

5. No, the Dmg of Mines is not the problem it's all about the root which is the key roots are krytonites for melee builds since they arw forced to roll and cannot move potentially 5 times, then you can teleport and reposition drop mines again and even the storm Atro, embrace this skill since it hasn't received any nerfs for how powerful it is.

Sorc is fine now Although these buffs were not nessiary next patch I expect some sDK buffs. The problem with mSorcs and sNBs is people try to play the class differently than it was designed.

NB => Glass cannon assassin fights gurellia warfare style and it not confrontational.
Survivability through:
- Dodge
- Stealth
- Ally Agro

Sorc=> Glass cannon mage fights from safety of range
Summons pets to aid in battle and is not confrontational
Survivability through:
-distance
- Shields
- Kiting
- ally agro

For both classes can't have your cake and eat it too if you want survivability you give up dmg and vice versa. I would definitely fight you but Im on PS4 NA.

Why the hell do you keep saying mines are a kite mechanic? I play a stam DK and mines are a joke, I can run around in them all day and the root is a moot point, you have anti-root mechanics if you have half a brain.

Streak is most definitely NOT a root mechanic. If gap closers like crit charge had a 15 second cooldown on them like in most other MMOs, sure it could be considered a kite tool (assuming it had multiple charges).

Saying mSorcs should be glass canons like NBs is just ignorant. A NB (stamblade) has infinitely more kiting/escapability than an mSorc. When I'm on a msorc on my DK he has LITERALLY 0% chance of getting away from me. I'm on him 100% from the start of the fight.

The 'mage' class in most games has never historically been a class canon. Yes they always wear light or cloth armor, but they've always had multiple defensive tools to either kite (impossible in ESO), shield, buff their armor with spells, or 100% immunity tools.

Your argument is just so blatantly wrong and BIASED (hurr hurr hypocrite) towards stam builds it's crazy. And I've NEVER played a magicka build.

A wall full of Ad Hominem, wow you know you don't have to agree with my opinion right? But you also don't have to be rude about it,

I didn't say streak was a root machanic it was a kite machanic.

I'm not biased but beleive what ever you want too next time you repy to me i'll ignore you since you just insult.

Lol This thread is going to be locked soon.

Lol, somebody can't take criticism.

First off, none of what I said was ad hominem, do you even know what the term means? Second, I think it's very clear that I meant streak being used as a kiting tool, which it absolutely is not - and that's a fact, not an opinion. You can't kite in this game.

You're stating your opinion that sorcs got overbuffed based on FACTS about their gameplay - which are blatantly wrong. Sorcs can't kite, good ones try to kite me all the time and fail. Sorcs should not be glass cannons, because they have zero methods of keeping a stam build off of them. ZERO.

And rat, I really don't know what you're talking about with crit rushing into a curse proc + frag, that combo wouldn't get me below 80% health.

thankyourat · February 2017

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

You don't understand

@Anti_Virus

You're the one who doesn't understand. If you think its impossible to eat thru a shield stack as a stamina character then you aren't playing a stamina character right and you've never seen one played right. A lot of the arguments you make, regarding how sorcs should be based around kiting and should't be able to face tank like a dk sound like the typical rhetoric thrown around by people who have no experience whatsoever on sorc. Kiting w/o shield stacking is not very effective when gap closers allow anyone to stay within melee range. A sorc can't face tank like a dk when being faced by multiple competent opponents, because shields simply don't scale with multiple sources of aggro like healing and blocking do. Daedric mines are a great skill against scrubs, who freak out and have no idea how to play against him. But once you figure out the strategy on how to counter them they are quite literally a cake-walk and can be danced around and through.

I play multiple classes and sorcs feel plenty balanced right now. If you don't play a sorc, I can see why you might think some of the things you do. But making such strong arguments without perspective is foolish. If you DO play sorc and are on PC NA, I would love to duel you on my DK or Templar so I can demonstrate some of the points I'm making.

1. Yeah this ideal is based of the the same actuation that all stamina builds run proc sets not all Im included and if you read my post to Minalan about CP placement againt Stam builds

2.yes mSorc is a ranged dps class you have Kite machanics A teleport and Mine field but you wear light armor and play from range you should kite and maintain distance and some form a ranged in a fight to be effective, the problem is most sorcs like NBs want to face tank like a Dk and have high dmg

3. I never said kite with out shield stacking making up words here to argue a false point. No one should be able to face tank and deal dmg when facing multiple opponents in an AvAvA game, bring allies along.

4. Not really, Block doesn't scale with multiple people since it drains stam and doesn't recover, You can Out dmg healing so no here, and roll dodge although it does scale with multiple people it cannot be abused since it has a stacking cost increase, addtionaly not all attacks can be dodged.

5. No, the Dmg of Mines is not the problem it's all about the root which is the key roots are krytonites for melee builds since they arw forced to roll and cannot move potentially 5 times, then you can teleport and reposition drop mines again and even the storm Atro, embrace this skill since it hasn't received any nerfs for how powerful it is.

Sorc is fine now Although these buffs were not nessiary next patch I expect some sDK buffs. The problem with mSorcs and sNBs is people try to play the class differently than it was designed.

NB => Glass cannon assassin fights gurellia warfare style and it not confrontational.
Survivability through:
- Dodge
- Stealth
- Ally Agro

Sorc=> Glass cannon mage fights from safety of range
Summons pets to aid in battle and is not confrontational
Survivability through:
-distance
- Shields
- Kiting
- ally agro

For both classes can't have your cake and eat it too if you want survivability you give up dmg and vice versa. I would definitely fight you but Im on PS4 NA.

Why the hell do you keep saying mines are a kite mechanic? I play a stam DK and mines are a joke, I can run around in them all day and the root is a moot point, you have anti-root mechanics if you have half a brain.

Streak is most definitely NOT a root mechanic. If gap closers like crit charge had a 15 second cooldown on them like in most other MMOs, sure it could be considered a kite tool (assuming it had multiple charges).

Saying mSorcs should be glass canons like NBs is just ignorant. A NB (stamblade) has infinitely more kiting/escapability than an mSorc. When I'm on a msorc on my DK he has LITERALLY 0% chance of getting away from me. I'm on him 100% from the start of the fight.

The 'mage' class in most games has never historically been a class canon. Yes they always wear light or cloth armor, but they've always had multiple defensive tools to either kite (impossible in ESO), shield, buff their armor with spells, or 100% immunity tools.

Your argument is just so blatantly wrong and BIASED (hurr hurr hypocrite) towards stam builds it's crazy. And I've NEVER played a magicka build.

A wall full of Ad Hominem, wow you know you don't have to agree with my opinion right? But you also don't have to be rude about it,

I didn't say streak was a root machanic it was a kite machanic.

I'm not biased but beleive what ever you want too next time you repy to me i'll ignore you since you just insult.

Lol This thread is going to be locked soon.

Lol, somebody can't take criticism.

First off, none of what I said was ad hominem, do you even know what the term means? Second, I think it's very clear that I meant streak being used as a kiting tool, which it absolutely is not - and that's a fact, not an opinion. You can't kite in this game.

You're stating your opinion that sorcs got overbuffed based on FACTS about their gameplay - which are blatantly wrong. Sorcs can't kite, good ones try to kite me all the time and fail. Sorcs should not be glass cannons, because they have zero methods of keeping a stam build off of them. ZERO.

And rat, I really don't know what you're talking about with crit rushing into a curse proc + frag, that combo wouldn't get me below 80% health.

The thing is if my combo can't get you below 80℅ you are probably to tanky for me to kill but you are also to tanky to kill me. I fought a dk using reactive, fasallas, and velidreth the fight went no where so we eventually just put are weapons away. he didn't have enough burst to kill me and I couldn't kill him either. But overall if a magsorc can't burst you no class will be able to kill you. veleciois curse hits harder than ultimates, and there are only two damage abilities that hit harder than crystal frag, ice commet and assassins will. Crystal frags base damage is actually higher than incap. So if a mag sorc can't kill you you are pretty much unkillable.

Edit: lol I don't doubt you though I have run into some pretty tanky people in cyrodiil. Especially sword and board heavy armor dks.

Nellzer · February 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

You don't understand

@Anti_Virus

You're the one who doesn't understand. If you think its impossible to eat thru a shield stack as a stamina character then you aren't playing a stamina character right and you've never seen one played right. A lot of the arguments you make, regarding how sorcs should be based around kiting and should't be able to face tank like a dk sound like the typical rhetoric thrown around by people who have no experience whatsoever on sorc. Kiting w/o shield stacking is not very effective when gap closers allow anyone to stay within melee range. A sorc can't face tank like a dk when being faced by multiple competent opponents, because shields simply don't scale with multiple sources of aggro like healing and blocking do. Daedric mines are a great skill against scrubs, who freak out and have no idea how to play against him. But once you figure out the strategy on how to counter them they are quite literally a cake-walk and can be danced around and through.

I play multiple classes and sorcs feel plenty balanced right now. If you don't play a sorc, I can see why you might think some of the things you do. But making such strong arguments without perspective is foolish. If you DO play sorc and are on PC NA, I would love to duel you on my DK or Templar so I can demonstrate some of the points I'm making.

1. Yeah this ideal is based of the the same actuation that all stamina builds run proc sets not all Im included and if you read my post to Minalan about CP placement againt Stam builds

2.yes mSorc is a ranged dps class you have Kite machanics A teleport and Mine field but you wear light armor and play from range you should kite and maintain distance and some form a ranged in a fight to be effective, the problem is most sorcs like NBs want to face tank like a Dk and have high dmg

3. I never said kite with out shield stacking making up words here to argue a false point. No one should be able to face tank and deal dmg when facing multiple opponents in an AvAvA game, bring allies along.

4. Not really, Block doesn't scale with multiple people since it drains stam and doesn't recover, You can Out dmg healing so no here, and roll dodge although it does scale with multiple people it cannot be abused since it has a stacking cost increase, addtionaly not all attacks can be dodged.

5. No, the Dmg of Mines is not the problem it's all about the root which is the key roots are krytonites for melee builds since they arw forced to roll and cannot move potentially 5 times, then you can teleport and reposition drop mines again and even the storm Atro, embrace this skill since it hasn't received any nerfs for how powerful it is.

Sorc is fine now Although these buffs were not nessiary next patch I expect some sDK buffs. The problem with mSorcs and sNBs is people try to play the class differently than it was designed.

NB => Glass cannon assassin fights gurellia warfare style and it not confrontational.
Survivability through:
- Dodge
- Stealth
- Ally Agro

Sorc=> Glass cannon mage fights from safety of range
Summons pets to aid in battle and is not confrontational
Survivability through:
-distance
- Shields
- Kiting
- ally agro

For both classes can't have your cake and eat it too if you want survivability you give up dmg and vice versa. I would definitely fight you but Im on PS4 NA.

Why the hell do you keep saying mines are a kite mechanic? I play a stam DK and mines are a joke, I can run around in them all day and the root is a moot point, you have anti-root mechanics if you have half a brain.

Streak is most definitely NOT a root mechanic. If gap closers like crit charge had a 15 second cooldown on them like in most other MMOs, sure it could be considered a kite tool (assuming it had multiple charges).

Saying mSorcs should be glass canons like NBs is just ignorant. A NB (stamblade) has infinitely more kiting/escapability than an mSorc. When I'm on a msorc on my DK he has LITERALLY 0% chance of getting away from me. I'm on him 100% from the start of the fight.

The 'mage' class in most games has never historically been a class canon. Yes they always wear light or cloth armor, but they've always had multiple defensive tools to either kite (impossible in ESO), shield, buff their armor with spells, or 100% immunity tools.

Your argument is just so blatantly wrong and BIASED (hurr hurr hypocrite) towards stam builds it's crazy. And I've NEVER played a magicka build.

A wall full of Ad Hominem, wow you know you don't have to agree with my opinion right? But you also don't have to be rude about it,

I didn't say streak was a root machanic it was a kite machanic.

I'm not biased but beleive what ever you want too next time you repy to me i'll ignore you since you just insult.

Lol This thread is going to be locked soon.

Lol, somebody can't take criticism.

First off, none of what I said was ad hominem, do you even know what the term means? Second, I think it's very clear that I meant streak being used as a kiting tool, which it absolutely is not - and that's a fact, not an opinion. You can't kite in this game.

You're stating your opinion that sorcs got overbuffed based on FACTS about their gameplay - which are blatantly wrong. Sorcs can't kite, good ones try to kite me all the time and fail. Sorcs should not be glass cannons, because they have zero methods of keeping a stam build off of them. ZERO.

And rat, I really don't know what you're talking about with crit rushing into a curse proc + frag, that combo wouldn't get me below 80% health.

The thing is if my combo can't get you below 80℅ you are probably to tanky for me to kill but you are also to tanky to kill me. I fought a dk using reactive, fasallas, and velidreth the fight went no where so we eventually just put are weapons away. he didn't have enough burst to kill me and I couldn't kill him either. But overall if a magsorc can't burst you no class will be able to kill you. veleciois curse hits harder than ultimates, and there are only two damage abilities that hit harder than crystal frag, ice commet and assassins will. Crystal frags base damage is actually higher than incap. So if a mag sorc can't kill you you are pretty much unkillable.

Edit: lol I don't doubt you though I have run into some pretty tanky people in cyrodiil. Especially sword and board heavy armor dks.

That was unintentionally exaggerated (fat fingered on phone). I meant 50%. The point was, with 25k+ health and 26k+ resistances, I can crit charge a msorc in any position and as long as my health isn't already very low I'm at no risk. And I still have the capability to burst through shields very well. It's just silly to think mSorcs should be glass cannons, they would be fodder for anyone and everyone.

thankyourat · February 2017

Nellzer wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

You don't understand

@Anti_Virus

You're the one who doesn't understand. If you think its impossible to eat thru a shield stack as a stamina character then you aren't playing a stamina character right and you've never seen one played right. A lot of the arguments you make, regarding how sorcs should be based around kiting and should't be able to face tank like a dk sound like the typical rhetoric thrown around by people who have no experience whatsoever on sorc. Kiting w/o shield stacking is not very effective when gap closers allow anyone to stay within melee range. A sorc can't face tank like a dk when being faced by multiple competent opponents, because shields simply don't scale with multiple sources of aggro like healing and blocking do. Daedric mines are a great skill against scrubs, who freak out and have no idea how to play against him. But once you figure out the strategy on how to counter them they are quite literally a cake-walk and can be danced around and through.

I play multiple classes and sorcs feel plenty balanced right now. If you don't play a sorc, I can see why you might think some of the things you do. But making such strong arguments without perspective is foolish. If you DO play sorc and are on PC NA, I would love to duel you on my DK or Templar so I can demonstrate some of the points I'm making.

1. Yeah this ideal is based of the the same actuation that all stamina builds run proc sets not all Im included and if you read my post to Minalan about CP placement againt Stam builds

2.yes mSorc is a ranged dps class you have Kite machanics A teleport and Mine field but you wear light armor and play from range you should kite and maintain distance and some form a ranged in a fight to be effective, the problem is most sorcs like NBs want to face tank like a Dk and have high dmg

3. I never said kite with out shield stacking making up words here to argue a false point. No one should be able to face tank and deal dmg when facing multiple opponents in an AvAvA game, bring allies along.

4. Not really, Block doesn't scale with multiple people since it drains stam and doesn't recover, You can Out dmg healing so no here, and roll dodge although it does scale with multiple people it cannot be abused since it has a stacking cost increase, addtionaly not all attacks can be dodged.

5. No, the Dmg of Mines is not the problem it's all about the root which is the key roots are krytonites for melee builds since they arw forced to roll and cannot move potentially 5 times, then you can teleport and reposition drop mines again and even the storm Atro, embrace this skill since it hasn't received any nerfs for how powerful it is.

Sorc is fine now Although these buffs were not nessiary next patch I expect some sDK buffs. The problem with mSorcs and sNBs is people try to play the class differently than it was designed.

NB => Glass cannon assassin fights gurellia warfare style and it not confrontational.
Survivability through:
- Dodge
- Stealth
- Ally Agro

Sorc=> Glass cannon mage fights from safety of range
Summons pets to aid in battle and is not confrontational
Survivability through:
-distance
- Shields
- Kiting
- ally agro

For both classes can't have your cake and eat it too if you want survivability you give up dmg and vice versa. I would definitely fight you but Im on PS4 NA.

Why the hell do you keep saying mines are a kite mechanic? I play a stam DK and mines are a joke, I can run around in them all day and the root is a moot point, you have anti-root mechanics if you have half a brain.

Streak is most definitely NOT a root mechanic. If gap closers like crit charge had a 15 second cooldown on them like in most other MMOs, sure it could be considered a kite tool (assuming it had multiple charges).

Saying mSorcs should be glass canons like NBs is just ignorant. A NB (stamblade) has infinitely more kiting/escapability than an mSorc. When I'm on a msorc on my DK he has LITERALLY 0% chance of getting away from me. I'm on him 100% from the start of the fight.

The 'mage' class in most games has never historically been a class canon. Yes they always wear light or cloth armor, but they've always had multiple defensive tools to either kite (impossible in ESO), shield, buff their armor with spells, or 100% immunity tools.

Your argument is just so blatantly wrong and BIASED (hurr hurr hypocrite) towards stam builds it's crazy. And I've NEVER played a magicka build.

A wall full of Ad Hominem, wow you know you don't have to agree with my opinion right? But you also don't have to be rude about it,

I didn't say streak was a root machanic it was a kite machanic.

I'm not biased but beleive what ever you want too next time you repy to me i'll ignore you since you just insult.

Lol This thread is going to be locked soon.

Lol, somebody can't take criticism.

First off, none of what I said was ad hominem, do you even know what the term means? Second, I think it's very clear that I meant streak being used as a kiting tool, which it absolutely is not - and that's a fact, not an opinion. You can't kite in this game.

You're stating your opinion that sorcs got overbuffed based on FACTS about their gameplay - which are blatantly wrong. Sorcs can't kite, good ones try to kite me all the time and fail. Sorcs should not be glass cannons, because they have zero methods of keeping a stam build off of them. ZERO.

And rat, I really don't know what you're talking about with crit rushing into a curse proc + frag, that combo wouldn't get me below 80% health.

The thing is if my combo can't get you below 80℅ you are probably to tanky for me to kill but you are also to tanky to kill me. I fought a dk using reactive, fasallas, and velidreth the fight went no where so we eventually just put are weapons away. he didn't have enough burst to kill me and I couldn't kill him either. But overall if a magsorc can't burst you no class will be able to kill you. veleciois curse hits harder than ultimates, and there are only two damage abilities that hit harder than crystal frag, ice commet and assassins will. Crystal frags base damage is actually higher than incap. So if a mag sorc can't kill you you are pretty much unkillable.

Edit: lol I don't doubt you though I have run into some pretty tanky people in cyrodiil. Especially sword and board heavy armor dks.

That was unintentionally exaggerated (fat fingered on phone). I meant 50%. The point was, with 25k+ health and 26k+ resistances, I can crit charge a msorc in any position and as long as my health isn't already very low I'm at no risk. And I still have the capability to burst through shields very well. It's just silly to think mSorcs should be glass cannons, they would be fodder for anyone and everyone.

Well I kind of agree a sorc should be a glass cannon or either have to build tanky like the rest of the classes. What I really want is for shields to not be stackable and un-nerf streak and make hardened 20 second again. I actually think that would be a buff to sorcs. mobility is king in PvP. not only that it would lessen the need to run a sustain set. You are pretty tanky with just one shield as well. Plus no build is going to hit you with enough damage to drop your shield at full and still take a good bit of your health. And at any time you could just reapply the shield so it could stay at full health. This would make a sorc less tanky, but it would be a more aggresive play style, you wouldn't be stuck running a sustain set, and it would actually be more survivable open world because shields scale poorly and cost a ton of magicka. To keep it to where shields are still better for sorcs they could leave annulment at 6 seconds. that way shields would still be much better on a sorc.

As for the crit rush if you crit rush a sorc in mines with curse active you will take a 5k curse, a 7k frag, 2 to 5k worth of mines depending if you hit one or two and if they have their ultimate a 5k dawnbreakers plus a instant tick of dawnbreaker that's close to 20k plus instant damage on a heavy armor build, medium armor builds pretty much instantly die. Crystal frag is so telegraphed though the only time I can hit is if someone is right in my face lol. That's why I personally think it's bad to gap close a sorc. if I'm fighting a sorc and his frag is proc'd I try to bait him into shooting the frag first, and then I get close after (gap close), or I approach flickering block to make sure to block the frag. That's just what I found to be most effective when fighting sorcs. It pretty much hard counters a sorc if they can't hit you with crystal frag lol. I'm pretty sure people have a million different ways though

Anti_Virus · February 2017

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

You don't understand

@Anti_Virus

You're the one who doesn't understand. If you think its impossible to eat thru a shield stack as a stamina character then you aren't playing a stamina character right and you've never seen one played right. A lot of the arguments you make, regarding how sorcs should be based around kiting and should't be able to face tank like a dk sound like the typical rhetoric thrown around by people who have no experience whatsoever on sorc. Kiting w/o shield stacking is not very effective when gap closers allow anyone to stay within melee range. A sorc can't face tank like a dk when being faced by multiple competent opponents, because shields simply don't scale with multiple sources of aggro like healing and blocking do. Daedric mines are a great skill against scrubs, who freak out and have no idea how to play against him. But once you figure out the strategy on how to counter them they are quite literally a cake-walk and can be danced around and through.

I play multiple classes and sorcs feel plenty balanced right now. If you don't play a sorc, I can see why you might think some of the things you do. But making such strong arguments without perspective is foolish. If you DO play sorc and are on PC NA, I would love to duel you on my DK or Templar so I can demonstrate some of the points I'm making.

1. Yeah this ideal is based of the the same actuation that all stamina builds run proc sets not all Im included and if you read my post to Minalan about CP placement againt Stam builds

2.yes mSorc is a ranged dps class you have Kite machanics A teleport and Mine field but you wear light armor and play from range you should kite and maintain distance and some form a ranged in a fight to be effective, the problem is most sorcs like NBs want to face tank like a Dk and have high dmg

3. I never said kite with out shield stacking making up words here to argue a false point. No one should be able to face tank and deal dmg when facing multiple opponents in an AvAvA game, bring allies along.

4. Not really, Block doesn't scale with multiple people since it drains stam and doesn't recover, You can Out dmg healing so no here, and roll dodge although it does scale with multiple people it cannot be abused since it has a stacking cost increase, addtionaly not all attacks can be dodged.

5. No, the Dmg of Mines is not the problem it's all about the root which is the key roots are krytonites for melee builds since they arw forced to roll and cannot move potentially 5 times, then you can teleport and reposition drop mines again and even the storm Atro, embrace this skill since it hasn't received any nerfs for how powerful it is.

Sorc is fine now Although these buffs were not nessiary next patch I expect some sDK buffs. The problem with mSorcs and sNBs is people try to play the class differently than it was designed.

NB => Glass cannon assassin fights gurellia warfare style and it not confrontational.
Survivability through:
- Dodge
- Stealth
- Ally Agro

Sorc=> Glass cannon mage fights from safety of range
Summons pets to aid in battle and is not confrontational
Survivability through:
-distance
- Shields
- Kiting
- ally agro

For both classes can't have your cake and eat it too if you want survivability you give up dmg and vice versa. I would definitely fight you but Im on PS4 NA.

Why the hell do you keep saying mines are a kite mechanic? I play a stam DK and mines are a joke, I can run around in them all day and the root is a moot point, you have anti-root mechanics if you have half a brain.

Streak is most definitely NOT a root mechanic. If gap closers like crit charge had a 15 second cooldown on them like in most other MMOs, sure it could be considered a kite tool (assuming it had multiple charges).

Saying mSorcs should be glass canons like NBs is just ignorant. A NB (stamblade) has infinitely more kiting/escapability than an mSorc. When I'm on a msorc on my DK he has LITERALLY 0% chance of getting away from me. I'm on him 100% from the start of the fight.

The 'mage' class in most games has never historically been a class canon. Yes they always wear light or cloth armor, but they've always had multiple defensive tools to either kite (impossible in ESO), shield, buff their armor with spells, or 100% immunity tools.

Your argument is just so blatantly wrong and BIASED (hurr hurr hypocrite) towards stam builds it's crazy. And I've NEVER played a magicka build.

A wall full of Ad Hominem, wow you know you don't have to agree with my opinion right? But you also don't have to be rude about it,

I didn't say streak was a root machanic it was a kite machanic.

I'm not biased but beleive what ever you want too next time you repy to me i'll ignore you since you just insult.

Lol This thread is going to be locked soon.

Lol, somebody can't take criticism.

First off, none of what I said was ad hominem, do you even know what the term means? Second, I think it's very clear that I meant streak being used as a kiting tool, which it absolutely is not - and that's a fact, not an opinion. You can't kite in this game.

You're stating your opinion that sorcs got overbuffed based on FACTS about their gameplay - which are blatantly wrong. Sorcs can't kite, good ones try to kite me all the time and fail. Sorcs should not be glass cannons, because they have zero methods of keeping a stam build off of them. ZERO.

And rat, I really don't know what you're talking about with crit rushing into a curse proc + frag, that combo wouldn't get me below 80% health.

Still here I see, you didn't make constructive criticism you just whined like a little baby because I didn't agree with you.

Yes you can kite in this game just because you can't L2P and kite doesn't make it impossible L2P with the tools you have on your Sorc.

Streak is a kiting Tool, it allows you to reposition from melee builds.

Btw you talk as if you aren't a mSorc but I know you are. Stating that you "never played a magicka build" in all caps as if that somehow validates your claim is laughable, If you have problems against a stam dk L2P kid.

[Edit]

Sorcs are already glass canons with no shields up they get killed which is why they need to kite, I.E. Daedric mines

mSorcs wear LA if you think they should be tanks you're a fool. Troll again.

Jsmalls · February 2017

mSorcs are strong... But so is any class played by a good player...

Our life literally depends on a 6 second shield. If you CC us once with it down with a Dizzying swing, Dawnbreaker, Incap, any hard hitting CC its Good Night to that Sorc.

So if a Sorc has that 6 second shield up 24/7/365 why is it any different than:

A magplar with rune protection and purifying ritual up.
Stamina classes with Vigor/shuffle up.
mNightblades with Dampen up 24/7.
mDk/sDK with wings up/resistance buffs up.

All of these instances that target becomes very hard to kill 1 v 1 (which I think is the issue right?)

Then for stamina classes you can add in the block on top of those other defense mechanics (something that's not available to mSorcs, **Disclaimer** haven't tried an ice staff in PvP, but unless they let block mitigate damage to shields there is no reason to even try).

Now there are exceptions to this in my opinion due to our horrific stack damage or gtfo meta. These exceptions (once again in my opinion) are as follows:

Magplars in light armor or 5 1 1 (light armor) with <28k health
Most stam characters using medium or 5 1 1 medium (stamplar and sDK being the most forgiving in medium)
Really any Magicka character not using a damage shield in light armor (mDK)

Burst is way too unforgiving to be effective in those examples.

But why is it not okay for a mSorc to be able to survive using their defensive mechanic effectively, but its accepted if other classes use theirs effectively? Seems a bit biased in my opinion.

Catch your opponent slipping up, if you can't and they catch you slipping up, maybe consider the fact that they are a better player than. I know, I know crazy idea, but maybe just maybe.

If it's any consolation I hate fighting good mSorcs also, usually you have to do something unexpected, for me its Spell Wall as a mSorc. THEY always frag themselves

Derra · February 2017

@Anti_Virus

kiting against a competent player is not possible. You have to fight them head on. Mines only delay a fight. A competent player won´t fight you when you camp your mines until he outnumberes you.

If you really think kiting and actually staying away from danger should be a valid playstyle for sorcs gapclosers need a 100% overhaul.

I´m not disagreeing with your point on sorcs. I´m just saying the arguments you make in favor of sorcs are just as biased (and untrue - because it does not work in practice) as the arguments made by people defending them.

I´ve posted in another topic:

Derra wrote: »

I personally think the problem with magica sorcs is currently:

Curse (the two hits always being added together in death recap does not make it better - no you don´t get hit for 12k+ curses - those are both explosions and the deathrecap is terrible).
Curse being undefendable was always a little cheesy - but balanced simply by the fact of not many sorcs running around and using it effectively.
Nowadays getting cursed by 3 or 4 sorcs means you´re 100% defensive for the next 12s or you will simply blow up to unavoidable high burst dmg.
I think the ability needs to be redone. Velocious curse needs to be returned into it´s former 1 explosion state. Daedric prey should be turned into a 12s dot dealing dmg equivalent to the current haunting curse. The double burst on a fire and forget skill is too good.

Pirate skeleton stacking on shields and the ability of stacking harness + hardened on 100% hp.
Ways of fixing that? Well pirate needs some kind of rework. It´s too good for a defensive set.
I´m a big fan of harness + hardened not stacking (with a mechanic increasing shieldstrengh for multiple attackers - something like 5% buffed mitigation on shields for every attacker: duration 5s stacks up to 5 times for five diferent attackers).
Also it could be debateable to create a mechanic that does not allow for more combined shield size than 150% of your hp (pve) and 75% of your hp in cyro (again with a mechanic to let shields scale mildly with number of attackers).

Destro buff (it simply benefits sorcs more than other classes because they´re the only class using destro + resto by classdesign and being survivable in that setup). There are too few magblades around to tell.
Changing 2h weapons to work as two setpieces would go a long way in making destro destro or destro resto vaible on templar and DK - we would then be able to tell if sorc is truely better with destro staves or if it´s just the setup not being well supported by other classes currently.

Nellzer · February 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

You don't understand

@Anti_Virus

You're the one who doesn't understand. If you think its impossible to eat thru a shield stack as a stamina character then you aren't playing a stamina character right and you've never seen one played right. A lot of the arguments you make, regarding how sorcs should be based around kiting and should't be able to face tank like a dk sound like the typical rhetoric thrown around by people who have no experience whatsoever on sorc. Kiting w/o shield stacking is not very effective when gap closers allow anyone to stay within melee range. A sorc can't face tank like a dk when being faced by multiple competent opponents, because shields simply don't scale with multiple sources of aggro like healing and blocking do. Daedric mines are a great skill against scrubs, who freak out and have no idea how to play against him. But once you figure out the strategy on how to counter them they are quite literally a cake-walk and can be danced around and through.

I play multiple classes and sorcs feel plenty balanced right now. If you don't play a sorc, I can see why you might think some of the things you do. But making such strong arguments without perspective is foolish. If you DO play sorc and are on PC NA, I would love to duel you on my DK or Templar so I can demonstrate some of the points I'm making.

1. Yeah this ideal is based of the the same actuation that all stamina builds run proc sets not all Im included and if you read my post to Minalan about CP placement againt Stam builds

2.yes mSorc is a ranged dps class you have Kite machanics A teleport and Mine field but you wear light armor and play from range you should kite and maintain distance and some form a ranged in a fight to be effective, the problem is most sorcs like NBs want to face tank like a Dk and have high dmg

3. I never said kite with out shield stacking making up words here to argue a false point. No one should be able to face tank and deal dmg when facing multiple opponents in an AvAvA game, bring allies along.

4. Not really, Block doesn't scale with multiple people since it drains stam and doesn't recover, You can Out dmg healing so no here, and roll dodge although it does scale with multiple people it cannot be abused since it has a stacking cost increase, addtionaly not all attacks can be dodged.

5. No, the Dmg of Mines is not the problem it's all about the root which is the key roots are krytonites for melee builds since they arw forced to roll and cannot move potentially 5 times, then you can teleport and reposition drop mines again and even the storm Atro, embrace this skill since it hasn't received any nerfs for how powerful it is.

Sorc is fine now Although these buffs were not nessiary next patch I expect some sDK buffs. The problem with mSorcs and sNBs is people try to play the class differently than it was designed.

NB => Glass cannon assassin fights gurellia warfare style and it not confrontational.
Survivability through:
- Dodge
- Stealth
- Ally Agro

Sorc=> Glass cannon mage fights from safety of range
Summons pets to aid in battle and is not confrontational
Survivability through:
-distance
- Shields
- Kiting
- ally agro

For both classes can't have your cake and eat it too if you want survivability you give up dmg and vice versa. I would definitely fight you but Im on PS4 NA.

Why the hell do you keep saying mines are a kite mechanic? I play a stam DK and mines are a joke, I can run around in them all day and the root is a moot point, you have anti-root mechanics if you have half a brain.

Streak is most definitely NOT a root mechanic. If gap closers like crit charge had a 15 second cooldown on them like in most other MMOs, sure it could be considered a kite tool (assuming it had multiple charges).

Saying mSorcs should be glass canons like NBs is just ignorant. A NB (stamblade) has infinitely more kiting/escapability than an mSorc. When I'm on a msorc on my DK he has LITERALLY 0% chance of getting away from me. I'm on him 100% from the start of the fight.

The 'mage' class in most games has never historically been a class canon. Yes they always wear light or cloth armor, but they've always had multiple defensive tools to either kite (impossible in ESO), shield, buff their armor with spells, or 100% immunity tools.

Your argument is just so blatantly wrong and BIASED (hurr hurr hypocrite) towards stam builds it's crazy. And I've NEVER played a magicka build.

A wall full of Ad Hominem, wow you know you don't have to agree with my opinion right? But you also don't have to be rude about it,

I didn't say streak was a root machanic it was a kite machanic.

I'm not biased but beleive what ever you want too next time you repy to me i'll ignore you since you just insult.

Lol This thread is going to be locked soon.

Lol, somebody can't take criticism.

First off, none of what I said was ad hominem, do you even know what the term means? Second, I think it's very clear that I meant streak being used as a kiting tool, which it absolutely is not - and that's a fact, not an opinion. You can't kite in this game.

You're stating your opinion that sorcs got overbuffed based on FACTS about their gameplay - which are blatantly wrong. Sorcs can't kite, good ones try to kite me all the time and fail. Sorcs should not be glass cannons, because they have zero methods of keeping a stam build off of them. ZERO.

And rat, I really don't know what you're talking about with crit rushing into a curse proc + frag, that combo wouldn't get me below 80% health.

Still here I see, you didn't make constructive criticism you just whined like a little baby because I didn't agree with you.

Yes you can kite in this game just because you can't L2P and kite doesn't make it impossible L2P with the tools you have on your Sorc.

Streak is a kiting Tool, it allows you to reposition from melee builds.

Btw you talk as if you aren't a mSorc but I know you are. Stating that you "never played a magicka build" in all caps as if that somehow validates your claim is laughable, If you have problems against a stam dk L2P kid.

[Edit]

Sorcs are already glass canons with no shields up they get killed which is why they need to kite, I.E. Daedric mines

mSorcs wear LA if you think they should be tanks you're a fool. Troll again.

LOL! How I think you misunderstand what the term 'whine' means now. You have SERIOUS reading comprehension issues.

You clearly know I'm a mSorc because I'm calling out your ignorance on class balance, nice argument kid. I play stamblade and stam dk, have since early release, don't even have a sorc created on my list. I don't need to validate my claim, I'm stating hard facts from the game. You're stating biased opinions complaining about a class that's not stam getting a buff. And for the record, I've stated in this thread that I believe mSorcs were in a great place before this patch and every buff they received was unnecessary. But when you see some ignorant buffoon spouting nonsensical garbage in a thread he's been necroing for weeks, it's hard not to get involved.

I wreck good sorcs all the time on both stamblade and stam dk, that's the point. If they gimped them in the way you're suggesting based on your completely wrong points you're throwing around, they would be a joke of a class.

Listen to the GOOD sorcs on here tell you kiting is impossible. If you're getting kited playing your stam dk then you're doing something seriously wrong. It's so incredibly easy to not get kited in this game, no... it's impossible. Yeah pretty sure I've already stated that. Streak is not a *** kiting tool, stop spouting that nonsense.

I also never said msorcs should be tanks. Again, try some reading comprehension sport. I said they shouldn't be glass cannons. There is a middle ground.

thankyourat · February 2017

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

You don't understand

@Anti_Virus

You're the one who doesn't understand. If you think its impossible to eat thru a shield stack as a stamina character then you aren't playing a stamina character right and you've never seen one played right. A lot of the arguments you make, regarding how sorcs should be based around kiting and should't be able to face tank like a dk sound like the typical rhetoric thrown around by people who have no experience whatsoever on sorc. Kiting w/o shield stacking is not very effective when gap closers allow anyone to stay within melee range. A sorc can't face tank like a dk when being faced by multiple competent opponents, because shields simply don't scale with multiple sources of aggro like healing and blocking do. Daedric mines are a great skill against scrubs, who freak out and have no idea how to play against him. But once you figure out the strategy on how to counter them they are quite literally a cake-walk and can be danced around and through.

I play multiple classes and sorcs feel plenty balanced right now. If you don't play a sorc, I can see why you might think some of the things you do. But making such strong arguments without perspective is foolish. If you DO play sorc and are on PC NA, I would love to duel you on my DK or Templar so I can demonstrate some of the points I'm making.

1. Yeah this ideal is based of the the same actuation that all stamina builds run proc sets not all Im included and if you read my post to Minalan about CP placement againt Stam builds

2.yes mSorc is a ranged dps class you have Kite machanics A teleport and Mine field but you wear light armor and play from range you should kite and maintain distance and some form a ranged in a fight to be effective, the problem is most sorcs like NBs want to face tank like a Dk and have high dmg

3. I never said kite with out shield stacking making up words here to argue a false point. No one should be able to face tank and deal dmg when facing multiple opponents in an AvAvA game, bring allies along.

4. Not really, Block doesn't scale with multiple people since it drains stam and doesn't recover, You can Out dmg healing so no here, and roll dodge although it does scale with multiple people it cannot be abused since it has a stacking cost increase, addtionaly not all attacks can be dodged.

5. No, the Dmg of Mines is not the problem it's all about the root which is the key roots are krytonites for melee builds since they arw forced to roll and cannot move potentially 5 times, then you can teleport and reposition drop mines again and even the storm Atro, embrace this skill since it hasn't received any nerfs for how powerful it is.

Sorc is fine now Although these buffs were not nessiary next patch I expect some sDK buffs. The problem with mSorcs and sNBs is people try to play the class differently than it was designed.

NB => Glass cannon assassin fights gurellia warfare style and it not confrontational.
Survivability through:
- Dodge
- Stealth
- Ally Agro

Sorc=> Glass cannon mage fights from safety of range
Summons pets to aid in battle and is not confrontational
Survivability through:
-distance
- Shields
- Kiting
- ally agro

For both classes can't have your cake and eat it too if you want survivability you give up dmg and vice versa. I would definitely fight you but Im on PS4 NA.

Why the hell do you keep saying mines are a kite mechanic? I play a stam DK and mines are a joke, I can run around in them all day and the root is a moot point, you have anti-root mechanics if you have half a brain.

Streak is most definitely NOT a root mechanic. If gap closers like crit charge had a 15 second cooldown on them like in most other MMOs, sure it could be considered a kite tool (assuming it had multiple charges).

Saying mSorcs should be glass canons like NBs is just ignorant. A NB (stamblade) has infinitely more kiting/escapability than an mSorc. When I'm on a msorc on my DK he has LITERALLY 0% chance of getting away from me. I'm on him 100% from the start of the fight.

The 'mage' class in most games has never historically been a class canon. Yes they always wear light or cloth armor, but they've always had multiple defensive tools to either kite (impossible in ESO), shield, buff their armor with spells, or 100% immunity tools.

Your argument is just so blatantly wrong and BIASED (hurr hurr hypocrite) towards stam builds it's crazy. And I've NEVER played a magicka build.

A wall full of Ad Hominem, wow you know you don't have to agree with my opinion right? But you also don't have to be rude about it,

I didn't say streak was a root machanic it was a kite machanic.

I'm not biased but beleive what ever you want too next time you repy to me i'll ignore you since you just insult.

Lol This thread is going to be locked soon.

Lol, somebody can't take criticism.

First off, none of what I said was ad hominem, do you even know what the term means? Second, I think it's very clear that I meant streak being used as a kiting tool, which it absolutely is not - and that's a fact, not an opinion. You can't kite in this game.

You're stating your opinion that sorcs got overbuffed based on FACTS about their gameplay - which are blatantly wrong. Sorcs can't kite, good ones try to kite me all the time and fail. Sorcs should not be glass cannons, because they have zero methods of keeping a stam build off of them. ZERO.

And rat, I really don't know what you're talking about with crit rushing into a curse proc + frag, that combo wouldn't get me below 80% health.

Still here I see, you didn't make constructive criticism you just whined like a little baby because I didn't agree with you.

Yes you can kite in this game just because you can't L2P and kite doesn't make it impossible L2P with the tools you have on your Sorc.

Streak is a kiting Tool, it allows you to reposition from melee builds.

Btw you talk as if you aren't a mSorc but I know you are. Stating that you "never played a magicka build" in all caps as if that somehow validates your claim is laughable, If you have problems against a stam dk L2P kid.

[Edit]

Sorcs are already glass canons with no shields up they get killed which is why they need to kite, I.E. Daedric mines

mSorcs wear LA if you think they should be tanks you're a fool. Troll again.

LOL! How I think you misunderstand what the term 'whine' means now. You have SERIOUS reading comprehension issues.

You clearly know I'm a mSorc because I'm calling out your ignorance on class balance, nice argument kid. I play stamblade and stam dk, have since early release, don't even have a sorc created on my list. I don't need to validate my claim, I'm stating hard facts from the game. You're stating biased opinions complaining about a class that's not stam getting a buff. And for the record, I've stated in this thread that I believe mSorcs were in a great place before this patch and every buff they received was unnecessary. But when you see some ignorant buffoon spouting nonsensical garbage in a thread he's been necroing for weeks, it's hard not to get involved.

I wreck good sorcs all the time on both stamblade and stam dk, that's the point. If they gimped them in the way you're suggesting based on your completely wrong points you're throwing around, they would be a joke of a class.

Listen to the GOOD sorcs on here tell you kiting is impossible. If you're getting kited playing your stam dk then you're doing something seriously wrong. It's so incredibly easy to not get kited in this game, no... it's impossible. Yeah pretty sure I've already stated that. Streak is not a *** kiting tool, stop spouting that nonsense.

I also never said msorcs should be tanks. Again, try some reading comprehension sport. I said they shouldn't be glass cannons. There is a middle ground.

I do agree anti virus does seem kind of stamina biased or he just struggles with sorcs. Everyone struggles with something but, I have to disagree about this one if a sorc can't kite a single player while using mines, streak and a destro staff they aren't all that good. When your opponent hits your mine they are rooted all you have to do is a little bunny hop back and you are out of melee range. They can't target you with melee attacks but you can still hit them. They are forced to dodge roll if they are stamina and most magicka build will try to shield out the root and you can use this time to get behind them while they are rooted in your mines (very strong kiting tactic). This is what kiting is in ESO and it's very effective. Especially because root spam is so strong. once all your mines are gone streak and repeat. Open world PvP you need to use streak in conjunction with LoS like rocks and trees but it is also very strong. I agree fully though that you can't kite more than two or three people at a time using this through. Always forcing you to fight the remaining people in melee range.

I use the same kiting strategy on my magblade as well, and I literally win over 90℅ of my duels doing this is hard to lose when your opponent can't apply constant pressure on you. Just root spam and move. You will always be just outside melee range. Even though they are kind of in your face they can't target you with melee attacks. I think this is what separates really good range casters from decent range casters

Lord-Otto · February 2017

Thankyou, they just animation cancel roll through mines while attacking you. Or just critrush. I have yet to see a competent stamina player actually standing still in my mines for a second.

thankyourat · February 2017

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Thankyou, they just animation cancel roll through mines while attacking you. Or just critrush. I have yet to see a competent stamina player actually standing still in my mines for a second.

They can't really animation cancel attack you because you are out of range. They could crit rush you yes but they'll hit another mine so basically the only attack they can hit you with is a gap closer because they are constantly rooted and you can hit them with burst combos applying pressure to them but they can't pressure you. It's not kiting how people generally think of kiting but it's very strong. And that's how you kite in this game. there is no way to keep extended range in this game but there are ways to keep out of melee range to relieve a good amount of pressure. It also hurts their stamina pool eventually they will start to sit in your mines once the duel goes on more and they start to hurt on resources. This is only effective in duels and I agree that it can sometimes be impossible to kite in open world cyrodiil if you don't have the terrain to do so. I'm just making a point that it's completely possible to kite a competent player if you are also competent in a 1v1. I don't even have mines on my main bars for open world

Lord-Otto · February 2017

Well, yes, they are hitting the mines. But they just tickle these days. Because everyone is a tank and because mines don't stack anymore. You critrush through three mines, you take damage equal to a single mine. That nerf back then made them so tame.

They also are in range. They'll step in one mine, start the attack, and then dodge through the next two mines. I don't even know why they can do that. Mines are supposed to root, but if you roll, they don't and you can "disarm" multiple at once. If that's intentional, it's a poor balancing decision.

Anyway, mines work, but they work badly. If they did more damage or had a stronger root, they would do their job. But in this Juggernaut meta, they fail spectacularly, imo.

OGLezard · February 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

then pls explain how do you presure a sorc with arround 15k+ shilds that do dmg with infernial and spaming skills that cant be avoided? would you like it if my dots as mdk Bypass your shilds such as you Bypass my wings or block or doge? same is for templar, how is a templar suppost to even dmg sorcs shild if he also lost his cc? dots will never deal enought dmg to burn through shilds

and also saying heal crits half the time is bs, no mdk or temp running with 50%+ crit.

i just say shilds Need a viable counterplay for magicka builds.

and yes i compare doge to shilds, shilds negate all dmg at the cost of maagicka, doge negate all singletarget and cc at the cost of Stamina, just as i compare block to shilds or doge, at the cost of Stamina i half the incoming dmg and be immune to most cc. but to block and doge are Counter skills that ignore the mechanic, such as fear or curse. but there is not a single skill to Counter the shildmechanic

In duels DoTs are the best thing to burn through a sorcerer's shields. Ever gone up against a DK or Sorc with DW vMA weapons empowering all those DoTs and Bleeds? It rips through you shields and forces the sorc on the defensive. Its literally the best way to kill a sorc.

thats Stamina, not magicka, bleed and poisen dots from dk are physical dmg not fire dmg from mdk

Yeah and considering most people are vampires fire DoTs become just as strong as the physical ones. When was the last time you've met a sorc that wasn't a vampire?

I'm a sorc and not a vampire

Anti_Virus · February 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

You don't understand

@Anti_Virus

You're the one who doesn't understand. If you think its impossible to eat thru a shield stack as a stamina character then you aren't playing a stamina character right and you've never seen one played right. A lot of the arguments you make, regarding how sorcs should be based around kiting and should't be able to face tank like a dk sound like the typical rhetoric thrown around by people who have no experience whatsoever on sorc. Kiting w/o shield stacking is not very effective when gap closers allow anyone to stay within melee range. A sorc can't face tank like a dk when being faced by multiple competent opponents, because shields simply don't scale with multiple sources of aggro like healing and blocking do. Daedric mines are a great skill against scrubs, who freak out and have no idea how to play against him. But once you figure out the strategy on how to counter them they are quite literally a cake-walk and can be danced around and through.

I play multiple classes and sorcs feel plenty balanced right now. If you don't play a sorc, I can see why you might think some of the things you do. But making such strong arguments without perspective is foolish. If you DO play sorc and are on PC NA, I would love to duel you on my DK or Templar so I can demonstrate some of the points I'm making.

1. Yeah this ideal is based of the the same actuation that all stamina builds run proc sets not all Im included and if you read my post to Minalan about CP placement againt Stam builds

2.yes mSorc is a ranged dps class you have Kite machanics A teleport and Mine field but you wear light armor and play from range you should kite and maintain distance and some form a ranged in a fight to be effective, the problem is most sorcs like NBs want to face tank like a Dk and have high dmg

3. I never said kite with out shield stacking making up words here to argue a false point. No one should be able to face tank and deal dmg when facing multiple opponents in an AvAvA game, bring allies along.

4. Not really, Block doesn't scale with multiple people since it drains stam and doesn't recover, You can Out dmg healing so no here, and roll dodge although it does scale with multiple people it cannot be abused since it has a stacking cost increase, addtionaly not all attacks can be dodged.

5. No, the Dmg of Mines is not the problem it's all about the root which is the key roots are krytonites for melee builds since they arw forced to roll and cannot move potentially 5 times, then you can teleport and reposition drop mines again and even the storm Atro, embrace this skill since it hasn't received any nerfs for how powerful it is.

Sorc is fine now Although these buffs were not nessiary next patch I expect some sDK buffs. The problem with mSorcs and sNBs is people try to play the class differently than it was designed.

NB => Glass cannon assassin fights gurellia warfare style and it not confrontational.
Survivability through:
- Dodge
- Stealth
- Ally Agro

Sorc=> Glass cannon mage fights from safety of range
Summons pets to aid in battle and is not confrontational
Survivability through:
-distance
- Shields
- Kiting
- ally agro

For both classes can't have your cake and eat it too if you want survivability you give up dmg and vice versa. I would definitely fight you but Im on PS4 NA.

Why the hell do you keep saying mines are a kite mechanic? I play a stam DK and mines are a joke, I can run around in them all day and the root is a moot point, you have anti-root mechanics if you have half a brain.

Streak is most definitely NOT a root mechanic. If gap closers like crit charge had a 15 second cooldown on them like in most other MMOs, sure it could be considered a kite tool (assuming it had multiple charges).

Saying mSorcs should be glass canons like NBs is just ignorant. A NB (stamblade) has infinitely more kiting/escapability than an mSorc. When I'm on a msorc on my DK he has LITERALLY 0% chance of getting away from me. I'm on him 100% from the start of the fight.

The 'mage' class in most games has never historically been a class canon. Yes they always wear light or cloth armor, but they've always had multiple defensive tools to either kite (impossible in ESO), shield, buff their armor with spells, or 100% immunity tools.

Your argument is just so blatantly wrong and BIASED (hurr hurr hypocrite) towards stam builds it's crazy. And I've NEVER played a magicka build.

A wall full of Ad Hominem, wow you know you don't have to agree with my opinion right? But you also don't have to be rude about it,

I didn't say streak was a root machanic it was a kite machanic.

I'm not biased but beleive what ever you want too next time you repy to me i'll ignore you since you just insult.

Lol This thread is going to be locked soon.

Lol, somebody can't take criticism.

First off, none of what I said was ad hominem, do you even know what the term means? Second, I think it's very clear that I meant streak being used as a kiting tool, which it absolutely is not - and that's a fact, not an opinion. You can't kite in this game.

You're stating your opinion that sorcs got overbuffed based on FACTS about their gameplay - which are blatantly wrong. Sorcs can't kite, good ones try to kite me all the time and fail. Sorcs should not be glass cannons, because they have zero methods of keeping a stam build off of them. ZERO.

And rat, I really don't know what you're talking about with crit rushing into a curse proc + frag, that combo wouldn't get me below 80% health.

Still here I see, you didn't make constructive criticism you just whined like a little baby because I didn't agree with you.

Yes you can kite in this game just because you can't L2P and kite doesn't make it impossible L2P with the tools you have on your Sorc.

Streak is a kiting Tool, it allows you to reposition from melee builds.

Btw you talk as if you aren't a mSorc but I know you are. Stating that you "never played a magicka build" in all caps as if that somehow validates your claim is laughable, If you have problems against a stam dk L2P kid.

[Edit]

Sorcs are already glass canons with no shields up they get killed which is why they need to kite, I.E. Daedric mines

mSorcs wear LA if you think they should be tanks you're a fool. Troll again.

LOL! How I think you misunderstand what the term 'whine' means now. You have SERIOUS reading comprehension issues.

You clearly know I'm a mSorc because I'm calling out your ignorance on class balance, nice argument kid. I play stamblade and stam dk, have since early release, don't even have a sorc created on my list. I don't need to validate my claim, I'm stating hard facts from the game. You're stating biased opinions complaining about a class that's not stam getting a buff. And for the record, I've stated in this thread that I believe mSorcs were in a great place before this patch and every buff they received was unnecessary. But when you see some ignorant buffoon spouting nonsensical garbage in a thread he's been necroing for weeks, it's hard not to get involved.

I wreck good sorcs all the time on both stamblade and stam dk, that's the point. If they gimped them in the way you're suggesting based on your completely wrong points you're throwing around, they would be a joke of a class.

Listen to the GOOD sorcs on here tell you kiting is impossible. If you're getting kited playing your stam dk then you're doing something seriously wrong. It's so incredibly easy to not get kited in this game, no... it's impossible. Yeah pretty sure I've already stated that. Streak is not a *** kiting tool, stop spouting that nonsense.

I also never said msorcs should be tanks. Again, try some reading comprehension sport. I said they shouldn't be glass cannons. There is a middle ground.

I do agree anti virus does seem kind of stamina biased or he just struggles with sorcs. Everyone struggles with something but, I have to disagree about this one if a sorc can't kite a single player while using mines, streak and a destro staff they aren't all that good. When your opponent hits your mine they are rooted all you have to do is a little bunny hop back and you are out of melee range. They can't target you with melee attacks but you can still hit them. They are forced to dodge roll if they are stamina and most magicka build will try to shield out the root and you can use this time to get behind them while they are rooted in your mines (very strong kiting tactic). This is what kiting is in ESO and it's very effective. Especially because root spam is so strong. once all your mines are gone streak and repeat. Open world PvP you need to use streak in conjunction with LoS like rocks and trees but it is also very strong. I agree fully though that you can't kite more than two or three people at a time using this through. Always forcing you to fight the remaining people in melee range.

I use the same kiting strategy on my magblade as well, and I literally win over 90℅ of my duels doing this is hard to lose when your opponent can't apply constant pressure on you. Just root spam and move. You will always be just outside melee range. Even though they are kind of in your face they can't target you with melee attacks. I think this is what separates really good range casters from decent range casters

How am I biased? I never complained about mSorcs nor have I ever asked for nerfed. No matter what that fool nellzar will say.

They just don't agree with my opinion that mSorcs shouldn't have received the buffs they got. Which is fine. Although I gave suggestion on how to improve the class as a whole like a magicka based dodgeroll, Un nerfing streak etc.

Praising Class machanics =/= Complaining, If I really had a problem with it I would suggest for it to be nerfed.

Anti_Virus · February 2017

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

You don't understand

@Anti_Virus

You're the one who doesn't understand. If you think its impossible to eat thru a shield stack as a stamina character then you aren't playing a stamina character right and you've never seen one played right. A lot of the arguments you make, regarding how sorcs should be based around kiting and should't be able to face tank like a dk sound like the typical rhetoric thrown around by people who have no experience whatsoever on sorc. Kiting w/o shield stacking is not very effective when gap closers allow anyone to stay within melee range. A sorc can't face tank like a dk when being faced by multiple competent opponents, because shields simply don't scale with multiple sources of aggro like healing and blocking do. Daedric mines are a great skill against scrubs, who freak out and have no idea how to play against him. But once you figure out the strategy on how to counter them they are quite literally a cake-walk and can be danced around and through.

I play multiple classes and sorcs feel plenty balanced right now. If you don't play a sorc, I can see why you might think some of the things you do. But making such strong arguments without perspective is foolish. If you DO play sorc and are on PC NA, I would love to duel you on my DK or Templar so I can demonstrate some of the points I'm making.

1. Yeah this ideal is based of the the same actuation that all stamina builds run proc sets not all Im included and if you read my post to Minalan about CP placement againt Stam builds

2.yes mSorc is a ranged dps class you have Kite machanics A teleport and Mine field but you wear light armor and play from range you should kite and maintain distance and some form a ranged in a fight to be effective, the problem is most sorcs like NBs want to face tank like a Dk and have high dmg

3. I never said kite with out shield stacking making up words here to argue a false point. No one should be able to face tank and deal dmg when facing multiple opponents in an AvAvA game, bring allies along.

4. Not really, Block doesn't scale with multiple people since it drains stam and doesn't recover, You can Out dmg healing so no here, and roll dodge although it does scale with multiple people it cannot be abused since it has a stacking cost increase, addtionaly not all attacks can be dodged.

5. No, the Dmg of Mines is not the problem it's all about the root which is the key roots are krytonites for melee builds since they arw forced to roll and cannot move potentially 5 times, then you can teleport and reposition drop mines again and even the storm Atro, embrace this skill since it hasn't received any nerfs for how powerful it is.

Sorc is fine now Although these buffs were not nessiary next patch I expect some sDK buffs. The problem with mSorcs and sNBs is people try to play the class differently than it was designed.

NB => Glass cannon assassin fights gurellia warfare style and it not confrontational.
Survivability through:
- Dodge
- Stealth
- Ally Agro

Sorc=> Glass cannon mage fights from safety of range
Summons pets to aid in battle and is not confrontational
Survivability through:
-distance
- Shields
- Kiting
- ally agro

For both classes can't have your cake and eat it too if you want survivability you give up dmg and vice versa. I would definitely fight you but Im on PS4 NA.

Why the hell do you keep saying mines are a kite mechanic? I play a stam DK and mines are a joke, I can run around in them all day and the root is a moot point, you have anti-root mechanics if you have half a brain.

Streak is most definitely NOT a root mechanic. If gap closers like crit charge had a 15 second cooldown on them like in most other MMOs, sure it could be considered a kite tool (assuming it had multiple charges).

Saying mSorcs should be glass canons like NBs is just ignorant. A NB (stamblade) has infinitely more kiting/escapability than an mSorc. When I'm on a msorc on my DK he has LITERALLY 0% chance of getting away from me. I'm on him 100% from the start of the fight.

The 'mage' class in most games has never historically been a class canon. Yes they always wear light or cloth armor, but they've always had multiple defensive tools to either kite (impossible in ESO), shield, buff their armor with spells, or 100% immunity tools.

Your argument is just so blatantly wrong and BIASED (hurr hurr hypocrite) towards stam builds it's crazy. And I've NEVER played a magicka build.

A wall full of Ad Hominem, wow you know you don't have to agree with my opinion right? But you also don't have to be rude about it,

I didn't say streak was a root machanic it was a kite machanic.

I'm not biased but beleive what ever you want too next time you repy to me i'll ignore you since you just insult.

Lol This thread is going to be locked soon.

Lol, somebody can't take criticism.

First off, none of what I said was ad hominem, do you even know what the term means? Second, I think it's very clear that I meant streak being used as a kiting tool, which it absolutely is not - and that's a fact, not an opinion. You can't kite in this game.

You're stating your opinion that sorcs got overbuffed based on FACTS about their gameplay - which are blatantly wrong. Sorcs can't kite, good ones try to kite me all the time and fail. Sorcs should not be glass cannons, because they have zero methods of keeping a stam build off of them. ZERO.

And rat, I really don't know what you're talking about with crit rushing into a curse proc + frag, that combo wouldn't get me below 80% health.

Still here I see, you didn't make constructive criticism you just whined like a little baby because I didn't agree with you.

Yes you can kite in this game just because you can't L2P and kite doesn't make it impossible L2P with the tools you have on your Sorc.

Streak is a kiting Tool, it allows you to reposition from melee builds.

Btw you talk as if you aren't a mSorc but I know you are. Stating that you "never played a magicka build" in all caps as if that somehow validates your claim is laughable, If you have problems against a stam dk L2P kid.

[Edit]

Sorcs are already glass canons with no shields up they get killed which is why they need to kite, I.E. Daedric mines

mSorcs wear LA if you think they should be tanks you're a fool. Troll again.

LOL! How I think you misunderstand what the term 'whine' means now. You have SERIOUS reading comprehension issues.

You clearly know I'm a mSorc because I'm calling out your ignorance on class balance, nice argument kid. I play stamblade and stam dk, have since early release, don't even have a sorc created on my list. I don't need to validate my claim, I'm stating hard facts from the game. You're stating biased opinions complaining about a class that's not stam getting a buff. And for the record, I've stated in this thread that I believe mSorcs were in a great place before this patch and every buff they received was unnecessary. But when you see some ignorant buffoon spouting nonsensical garbage in a thread he's been necroing for weeks, it's hard not to get involved.

I wreck good sorcs all the time on both stamblade and stam dk, that's the point. If they gimped them in the way you're suggesting based on your completely wrong points you're throwing around, they would be a joke of a class.

Listen to the GOOD sorcs on here tell you kiting is impossible. If you're getting kited playing your stam dk then you're doing something seriously wrong. It's so incredibly easy to not get kited in this game, no... it's impossible. Yeah pretty sure I've already stated that. Streak is not a *** kiting tool, stop spouting that nonsense.

I also never said msorcs should be tanks. Again, try some reading comprehension sport. I said they shouldn't be glass cannons. There is a middle ground.

You just said "I don't agree that mSorcs shouldn't be glass cannons". But they are glass cannons unless thete are heavy armor mSorcs out there tanking whole zergs you're wrong like NBs mSorcs are glass cannons unless you give up dmg to do so

Insulting me isn't going to get you anywhere kid you should calm down and argue properly. "GOOD" mSorcs are subjective to who ever says they are Just because you say they are "GOOD" doen't validate there opinion as fact.

If you can point out where I said they need to nerf mSorcs show me otherwise shut up and stop trolling, pulling false claims to argue a point just like Minalan.

-multiple post was made stating the mSorcs didn't need this buff just because I said they didn't need this buff =/= I said they need to be nerfed you have reading comprehension.

- Posts made infavor of improving sorc defense
- Posts pointing out the power of the Sorc kit =/= Nerf mSorc.

Just stop and L2P

.

thankyourat · February 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

You don't understand

@Anti_Virus

You're the one who doesn't understand. If you think its impossible to eat thru a shield stack as a stamina character then you aren't playing a stamina character right and you've never seen one played right. A lot of the arguments you make, regarding how sorcs should be based around kiting and should't be able to face tank like a dk sound like the typical rhetoric thrown around by people who have no experience whatsoever on sorc. Kiting w/o shield stacking is not very effective when gap closers allow anyone to stay within melee range. A sorc can't face tank like a dk when being faced by multiple competent opponents, because shields simply don't scale with multiple sources of aggro like healing and blocking do. Daedric mines are a great skill against scrubs, who freak out and have no idea how to play against him. But once you figure out the strategy on how to counter them they are quite literally a cake-walk and can be danced around and through.

I play multiple classes and sorcs feel plenty balanced right now. If you don't play a sorc, I can see why you might think some of the things you do. But making such strong arguments without perspective is foolish. If you DO play sorc and are on PC NA, I would love to duel you on my DK or Templar so I can demonstrate some of the points I'm making.

1. Yeah this ideal is based of the the same actuation that all stamina builds run proc sets not all Im included and if you read my post to Minalan about CP placement againt Stam builds

2.yes mSorc is a ranged dps class you have Kite machanics A teleport and Mine field but you wear light armor and play from range you should kite and maintain distance and some form a ranged in a fight to be effective, the problem is most sorcs like NBs want to face tank like a Dk and have high dmg

3. I never said kite with out shield stacking making up words here to argue a false point. No one should be able to face tank and deal dmg when facing multiple opponents in an AvAvA game, bring allies along.

4. Not really, Block doesn't scale with multiple people since it drains stam and doesn't recover, You can Out dmg healing so no here, and roll dodge although it does scale with multiple people it cannot be abused since it has a stacking cost increase, addtionaly not all attacks can be dodged.

5. No, the Dmg of Mines is not the problem it's all about the root which is the key roots are krytonites for melee builds since they arw forced to roll and cannot move potentially 5 times, then you can teleport and reposition drop mines again and even the storm Atro, embrace this skill since it hasn't received any nerfs for how powerful it is.

Sorc is fine now Although these buffs were not nessiary next patch I expect some sDK buffs. The problem with mSorcs and sNBs is people try to play the class differently than it was designed.

NB => Glass cannon assassin fights gurellia warfare style and it not confrontational.
Survivability through:
- Dodge
- Stealth
- Ally Agro

Sorc=> Glass cannon mage fights from safety of range
Summons pets to aid in battle and is not confrontational
Survivability through:
-distance
- Shields
- Kiting
- ally agro

For both classes can't have your cake and eat it too if you want survivability you give up dmg and vice versa. I would definitely fight you but Im on PS4 NA.

Why the hell do you keep saying mines are a kite mechanic? I play a stam DK and mines are a joke, I can run around in them all day and the root is a moot point, you have anti-root mechanics if you have half a brain.

Streak is most definitely NOT a root mechanic. If gap closers like crit charge had a 15 second cooldown on them like in most other MMOs, sure it could be considered a kite tool (assuming it had multiple charges).

Saying mSorcs should be glass canons like NBs is just ignorant. A NB (stamblade) has infinitely more kiting/escapability than an mSorc. When I'm on a msorc on my DK he has LITERALLY 0% chance of getting away from me. I'm on him 100% from the start of the fight.

The 'mage' class in most games has never historically been a class canon. Yes they always wear light or cloth armor, but they've always had multiple defensive tools to either kite (impossible in ESO), shield, buff their armor with spells, or 100% immunity tools.

Your argument is just so blatantly wrong and BIASED (hurr hurr hypocrite) towards stam builds it's crazy. And I've NEVER played a magicka build.

A wall full of Ad Hominem, wow you know you don't have to agree with my opinion right? But you also don't have to be rude about it,

I didn't say streak was a root machanic it was a kite machanic.

I'm not biased but beleive what ever you want too next time you repy to me i'll ignore you since you just insult.

Lol This thread is going to be locked soon.

Lol, somebody can't take criticism.

First off, none of what I said was ad hominem, do you even know what the term means? Second, I think it's very clear that I meant streak being used as a kiting tool, which it absolutely is not - and that's a fact, not an opinion. You can't kite in this game.

You're stating your opinion that sorcs got overbuffed based on FACTS about their gameplay - which are blatantly wrong. Sorcs can't kite, good ones try to kite me all the time and fail. Sorcs should not be glass cannons, because they have zero methods of keeping a stam build off of them. ZERO.

And rat, I really don't know what you're talking about with crit rushing into a curse proc + frag, that combo wouldn't get me below 80% health.

Still here I see, you didn't make constructive criticism you just whined like a little baby because I didn't agree with you.

Yes you can kite in this game just because you can't L2P and kite doesn't make it impossible L2P with the tools you have on your Sorc.

Streak is a kiting Tool, it allows you to reposition from melee builds.

Btw you talk as if you aren't a mSorc but I know you are. Stating that you "never played a magicka build" in all caps as if that somehow validates your claim is laughable, If you have problems against a stam dk L2P kid.

[Edit]

Sorcs are already glass canons with no shields up they get killed which is why they need to kite, I.E. Daedric mines

mSorcs wear LA if you think they should be tanks you're a fool. Troll again.

LOL! How I think you misunderstand what the term 'whine' means now. You have SERIOUS reading comprehension issues.

You clearly know I'm a mSorc because I'm calling out your ignorance on class balance, nice argument kid. I play stamblade and stam dk, have since early release, don't even have a sorc created on my list. I don't need to validate my claim, I'm stating hard facts from the game. You're stating biased opinions complaining about a class that's not stam getting a buff. And for the record, I've stated in this thread that I believe mSorcs were in a great place before this patch and every buff they received was unnecessary. But when you see some ignorant buffoon spouting nonsensical garbage in a thread he's been necroing for weeks, it's hard not to get involved.

I wreck good sorcs all the time on both stamblade and stam dk, that's the point. If they gimped them in the way you're suggesting based on your completely wrong points you're throwing around, they would be a joke of a class.

Listen to the GOOD sorcs on here tell you kiting is impossible. If you're getting kited playing your stam dk then you're doing something seriously wrong. It's so incredibly easy to not get kited in this game, no... it's impossible. Yeah pretty sure I've already stated that. Streak is not a *** kiting tool, stop spouting that nonsense.

I also never said msorcs should be tanks. Again, try some reading comprehension sport. I said they shouldn't be glass cannons. There is a middle ground.

I do agree anti virus does seem kind of stamina biased or he just struggles with sorcs. Everyone struggles with something but, I have to disagree about this one if a sorc can't kite a single player while using mines, streak and a destro staff they aren't all that good. When your opponent hits your mine they are rooted all you have to do is a little bunny hop back and you are out of melee range. They can't target you with melee attacks but you can still hit them. They are forced to dodge roll if they are stamina and most magicka build will try to shield out the root and you can use this time to get behind them while they are rooted in your mines (very strong kiting tactic). This is what kiting is in ESO and it's very effective. Especially because root spam is so strong. once all your mines are gone streak and repeat. Open world PvP you need to use streak in conjunction with LoS like rocks and trees but it is also very strong. I agree fully though that you can't kite more than two or three people at a time using this through. Always forcing you to fight the remaining people in melee range.

I use the same kiting strategy on my magblade as well, and I literally win over 90℅ of my duels doing this is hard to lose when your opponent can't apply constant pressure on you. Just root spam and move. You will always be just outside melee range. Even though they are kind of in your face they can't target you with melee attacks. I think this is what separates really good range casters from decent range casters

How am I biased? I never complained about mSorcs nor have I ever asked for nerfed. No matter what that fool nellzar will say.

They just don't agree with my opinion that mSorcs shouldn't have received the buffs they got. Which is fine. Although I gave suggestion on how to improve the class as a whole like a magicka based dodgeroll, Un nerfing streak etc.

Praising Class machanics =/= Complaining, If I really had a problem with it I would suggest for it to be nerfed.

I think biased was the wrong word. Some of your post come off as very anti magsorc though. I did agree with some of your suggestions. Like shield stacking being gone I think ESO as a whole hate shield stacking. I won't even accept a duel request for a magsorc vs magsorc fight it's so bad. I also think most PvP sorcs are against the curse change. It's just the tone in which you write comes off as being anti magicka in general. Lol I'm very anti dk both forms I think they are way too strong even though I have a stam dk. Some people just think other classes are too strong. Some of the MagSorcs in this post hate nightblades. I think what would help alot of threads in the forums is if players played both stam and magicka classes which most people don't. always leading to one thinking the grass is greener for the other side. I agree it was pretty balanced in 1T. The only problem came in open world PvP. destro staff users lacked burst and would alot of times be focused and forced to fight in melee range and your spammable dps was so weak. so a destro damage buff was needed. On the flip side this will put magsorc over the top in duels most people are already realizing this. The only people i have been able to duel on a consistent basis are dks and mag sorcs. You don't see alot of the other classes dueling.

Nellzer · February 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

You don't understand

@Anti_Virus

You're the one who doesn't understand. If you think its impossible to eat thru a shield stack as a stamina character then you aren't playing a stamina character right and you've never seen one played right. A lot of the arguments you make, regarding how sorcs should be based around kiting and should't be able to face tank like a dk sound like the typical rhetoric thrown around by people who have no experience whatsoever on sorc. Kiting w/o shield stacking is not very effective when gap closers allow anyone to stay within melee range. A sorc can't face tank like a dk when being faced by multiple competent opponents, because shields simply don't scale with multiple sources of aggro like healing and blocking do. Daedric mines are a great skill against scrubs, who freak out and have no idea how to play against him. But once you figure out the strategy on how to counter them they are quite literally a cake-walk and can be danced around and through.

I play multiple classes and sorcs feel plenty balanced right now. If you don't play a sorc, I can see why you might think some of the things you do. But making such strong arguments without perspective is foolish. If you DO play sorc and are on PC NA, I would love to duel you on my DK or Templar so I can demonstrate some of the points I'm making.

1. Yeah this ideal is based of the the same actuation that all stamina builds run proc sets not all Im included and if you read my post to Minalan about CP placement againt Stam builds

2.yes mSorc is a ranged dps class you have Kite machanics A teleport and Mine field but you wear light armor and play from range you should kite and maintain distance and some form a ranged in a fight to be effective, the problem is most sorcs like NBs want to face tank like a Dk and have high dmg

3. I never said kite with out shield stacking making up words here to argue a false point. No one should be able to face tank and deal dmg when facing multiple opponents in an AvAvA game, bring allies along.

4. Not really, Block doesn't scale with multiple people since it drains stam and doesn't recover, You can Out dmg healing so no here, and roll dodge although it does scale with multiple people it cannot be abused since it has a stacking cost increase, addtionaly not all attacks can be dodged.

5. No, the Dmg of Mines is not the problem it's all about the root which is the key roots are krytonites for melee builds since they arw forced to roll and cannot move potentially 5 times, then you can teleport and reposition drop mines again and even the storm Atro, embrace this skill since it hasn't received any nerfs for how powerful it is.

Sorc is fine now Although these buffs were not nessiary next patch I expect some sDK buffs. The problem with mSorcs and sNBs is people try to play the class differently than it was designed.

NB => Glass cannon assassin fights gurellia warfare style and it not confrontational.
Survivability through:
- Dodge
- Stealth
- Ally Agro

Sorc=> Glass cannon mage fights from safety of range
Summons pets to aid in battle and is not confrontational
Survivability through:
-distance
- Shields
- Kiting
- ally agro

For both classes can't have your cake and eat it too if you want survivability you give up dmg and vice versa. I would definitely fight you but Im on PS4 NA.

Why the hell do you keep saying mines are a kite mechanic? I play a stam DK and mines are a joke, I can run around in them all day and the root is a moot point, you have anti-root mechanics if you have half a brain.

Streak is most definitely NOT a root mechanic. If gap closers like crit charge had a 15 second cooldown on them like in most other MMOs, sure it could be considered a kite tool (assuming it had multiple charges).

Saying mSorcs should be glass canons like NBs is just ignorant. A NB (stamblade) has infinitely more kiting/escapability than an mSorc. When I'm on a msorc on my DK he has LITERALLY 0% chance of getting away from me. I'm on him 100% from the start of the fight.

The 'mage' class in most games has never historically been a class canon. Yes they always wear light or cloth armor, but they've always had multiple defensive tools to either kite (impossible in ESO), shield, buff their armor with spells, or 100% immunity tools.

Your argument is just so blatantly wrong and BIASED (hurr hurr hypocrite) towards stam builds it's crazy. And I've NEVER played a magicka build.

A wall full of Ad Hominem, wow you know you don't have to agree with my opinion right? But you also don't have to be rude about it,

I didn't say streak was a root machanic it was a kite machanic.

I'm not biased but beleive what ever you want too next time you repy to me i'll ignore you since you just insult.

Lol This thread is going to be locked soon.

Lol, somebody can't take criticism.

First off, none of what I said was ad hominem, do you even know what the term means? Second, I think it's very clear that I meant streak being used as a kiting tool, which it absolutely is not - and that's a fact, not an opinion. You can't kite in this game.

You're stating your opinion that sorcs got overbuffed based on FACTS about their gameplay - which are blatantly wrong. Sorcs can't kite, good ones try to kite me all the time and fail. Sorcs should not be glass cannons, because they have zero methods of keeping a stam build off of them. ZERO.

And rat, I really don't know what you're talking about with crit rushing into a curse proc + frag, that combo wouldn't get me below 80% health.

Still here I see, you didn't make constructive criticism you just whined like a little baby because I didn't agree with you.

Yes you can kite in this game just because you can't L2P and kite doesn't make it impossible L2P with the tools you have on your Sorc.

Streak is a kiting Tool, it allows you to reposition from melee builds.

Btw you talk as if you aren't a mSorc but I know you are. Stating that you "never played a magicka build" in all caps as if that somehow validates your claim is laughable, If you have problems against a stam dk L2P kid.

[Edit]

Sorcs are already glass canons with no shields up they get killed which is why they need to kite, I.E. Daedric mines

mSorcs wear LA if you think they should be tanks you're a fool. Troll again.

LOL! How I think you misunderstand what the term 'whine' means now. You have SERIOUS reading comprehension issues.

You clearly know I'm a mSorc because I'm calling out your ignorance on class balance, nice argument kid. I play stamblade and stam dk, have since early release, don't even have a sorc created on my list. I don't need to validate my claim, I'm stating hard facts from the game. You're stating biased opinions complaining about a class that's not stam getting a buff. And for the record, I've stated in this thread that I believe mSorcs were in a great place before this patch and every buff they received was unnecessary. But when you see some ignorant buffoon spouting nonsensical garbage in a thread he's been necroing for weeks, it's hard not to get involved.

I wreck good sorcs all the time on both stamblade and stam dk, that's the point. If they gimped them in the way you're suggesting based on your completely wrong points you're throwing around, they would be a joke of a class.

Listen to the GOOD sorcs on here tell you kiting is impossible. If you're getting kited playing your stam dk then you're doing something seriously wrong. It's so incredibly easy to not get kited in this game, no... it's impossible. Yeah pretty sure I've already stated that. Streak is not a *** kiting tool, stop spouting that nonsense.

I also never said msorcs should be tanks. Again, try some reading comprehension sport. I said they shouldn't be glass cannons. There is a middle ground.

You just said "I don't agree that mSorcs shouldn't be glass cannons". But they are glass cannons unless thete are heavy armor mSorcs out there tanking whole zergs you're wrong like NBs mSorcs are glass cannons unless you give up dmg to do so

Insulting me isn't going to get you anywhere kid you should calm down and argue properly. "GOOD" mSorcs are subjective to who ever says they are Just because you say they are "GOOD" doen't validate there opinion as fact.

If you can point out where I said they need to nerf mSorcs show me otherwise shut up and stop trolling, pulling false claims to argue a point just like Minalan.

-multiple post was made stating the mSorcs didn't need this buff just because I said they didn't need this buff =/= I said they need to be nerfed you have reading comprehension.

- Posts made infavor of improving sorc defense
- Posts pointing out the power of the Sorc kit =/= Nerf mSorc.

Just stop and L2P .

No, sorcs aren't glass cannons. There's all kinds of defense, not just resistances and HP. A true glass cannon (see: NB) gets instagibbed if another class makes contact for more than a few seconds, that doesn't happen with a mSorc.

The guy getting kited by a mSorc on his stam DK telling me to L2P, LoL.

Anti_Virus · February 2017

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

You don't understand

@Anti_Virus

You're the one who doesn't understand. If you think its impossible to eat thru a shield stack as a stamina character then you aren't playing a stamina character right and you've never seen one played right. A lot of the arguments you make, regarding how sorcs should be based around kiting and should't be able to face tank like a dk sound like the typical rhetoric thrown around by people who have no experience whatsoever on sorc. Kiting w/o shield stacking is not very effective when gap closers allow anyone to stay within melee range. A sorc can't face tank like a dk when being faced by multiple competent opponents, because shields simply don't scale with multiple sources of aggro like healing and blocking do. Daedric mines are a great skill against scrubs, who freak out and have no idea how to play against him. But once you figure out the strategy on how to counter them they are quite literally a cake-walk and can be danced around and through.

I play multiple classes and sorcs feel plenty balanced right now. If you don't play a sorc, I can see why you might think some of the things you do. But making such strong arguments without perspective is foolish. If you DO play sorc and are on PC NA, I would love to duel you on my DK or Templar so I can demonstrate some of the points I'm making.

1. Yeah this ideal is based of the the same actuation that all stamina builds run proc sets not all Im included and if you read my post to Minalan about CP placement againt Stam builds

2.yes mSorc is a ranged dps class you have Kite machanics A teleport and Mine field but you wear light armor and play from range you should kite and maintain distance and some form a ranged in a fight to be effective, the problem is most sorcs like NBs want to face tank like a Dk and have high dmg

3. I never said kite with out shield stacking making up words here to argue a false point. No one should be able to face tank and deal dmg when facing multiple opponents in an AvAvA game, bring allies along.

4. Not really, Block doesn't scale with multiple people since it drains stam and doesn't recover, You can Out dmg healing so no here, and roll dodge although it does scale with multiple people it cannot be abused since it has a stacking cost increase, addtionaly not all attacks can be dodged.

5. No, the Dmg of Mines is not the problem it's all about the root which is the key roots are krytonites for melee builds since they arw forced to roll and cannot move potentially 5 times, then you can teleport and reposition drop mines again and even the storm Atro, embrace this skill since it hasn't received any nerfs for how powerful it is.

Sorc is fine now Although these buffs were not nessiary next patch I expect some sDK buffs. The problem with mSorcs and sNBs is people try to play the class differently than it was designed.

NB => Glass cannon assassin fights gurellia warfare style and it not confrontational.
Survivability through:
- Dodge
- Stealth
- Ally Agro

Sorc=> Glass cannon mage fights from safety of range
Summons pets to aid in battle and is not confrontational
Survivability through:
-distance
- Shields
- Kiting
- ally agro

For both classes can't have your cake and eat it too if you want survivability you give up dmg and vice versa. I would definitely fight you but Im on PS4 NA.

Why the hell do you keep saying mines are a kite mechanic? I play a stam DK and mines are a joke, I can run around in them all day and the root is a moot point, you have anti-root mechanics if you have half a brain.

Streak is most definitely NOT a root mechanic. If gap closers like crit charge had a 15 second cooldown on them like in most other MMOs, sure it could be considered a kite tool (assuming it had multiple charges).

Saying mSorcs should be glass canons like NBs is just ignorant. A NB (stamblade) has infinitely more kiting/escapability than an mSorc. When I'm on a msorc on my DK he has LITERALLY 0% chance of getting away from me. I'm on him 100% from the start of the fight.

The 'mage' class in most games has never historically been a class canon. Yes they always wear light or cloth armor, but they've always had multiple defensive tools to either kite (impossible in ESO), shield, buff their armor with spells, or 100% immunity tools.

Your argument is just so blatantly wrong and BIASED (hurr hurr hypocrite) towards stam builds it's crazy. And I've NEVER played a magicka build.

A wall full of Ad Hominem, wow you know you don't have to agree with my opinion right? But you also don't have to be rude about it,

I didn't say streak was a root machanic it was a kite machanic.

I'm not biased but beleive what ever you want too next time you repy to me i'll ignore you since you just insult.

Lol This thread is going to be locked soon.

Lol, somebody can't take criticism.

First off, none of what I said was ad hominem, do you even know what the term means? Second, I think it's very clear that I meant streak being used as a kiting tool, which it absolutely is not - and that's a fact, not an opinion. You can't kite in this game.

You're stating your opinion that sorcs got overbuffed based on FACTS about their gameplay - which are blatantly wrong. Sorcs can't kite, good ones try to kite me all the time and fail. Sorcs should not be glass cannons, because they have zero methods of keeping a stam build off of them. ZERO.

And rat, I really don't know what you're talking about with crit rushing into a curse proc + frag, that combo wouldn't get me below 80% health.

Still here I see, you didn't make constructive criticism you just whined like a little baby because I didn't agree with you.

Yes you can kite in this game just because you can't L2P and kite doesn't make it impossible L2P with the tools you have on your Sorc.

Streak is a kiting Tool, it allows you to reposition from melee builds.

Btw you talk as if you aren't a mSorc but I know you are. Stating that you "never played a magicka build" in all caps as if that somehow validates your claim is laughable, If you have problems against a stam dk L2P kid.

[Edit]

Sorcs are already glass canons with no shields up they get killed which is why they need to kite, I.E. Daedric mines

mSorcs wear LA if you think they should be tanks you're a fool. Troll again.

LOL! How I think you misunderstand what the term 'whine' means now. You have SERIOUS reading comprehension issues.

You clearly know I'm a mSorc because I'm calling out your ignorance on class balance, nice argument kid. I play stamblade and stam dk, have since early release, don't even have a sorc created on my list. I don't need to validate my claim, I'm stating hard facts from the game. You're stating biased opinions complaining about a class that's not stam getting a buff. And for the record, I've stated in this thread that I believe mSorcs were in a great place before this patch and every buff they received was unnecessary. But when you see some ignorant buffoon spouting nonsensical garbage in a thread he's been necroing for weeks, it's hard not to get involved.

I wreck good sorcs all the time on both stamblade and stam dk, that's the point. If they gimped them in the way you're suggesting based on your completely wrong points you're throwing around, they would be a joke of a class.

Listen to the GOOD sorcs on here tell you kiting is impossible. If you're getting kited playing your stam dk then you're doing something seriously wrong. It's so incredibly easy to not get kited in this game, no... it's impossible. Yeah pretty sure I've already stated that. Streak is not a *** kiting tool, stop spouting that nonsense.

I also never said msorcs should be tanks. Again, try some reading comprehension sport. I said they shouldn't be glass cannons. There is a middle ground.

You just said "I don't agree that mSorcs shouldn't be glass cannons". But they are glass cannons unless there are heavy armor mSorcs out there tanking whole zergs you're wrong like NBs mSorcs are glass cannons unless you give up dmg to do so

Insulting me isn't going to get you anywhere kid you should calm down and argue properly. "GOOD" mSorcs are subjective to who ever says they are Just because you say they are "GOOD" doen't validate there opinion as fact.

If you can point out where I said they need to nerf mSorcs show me otherwise shut up and stop trolling, pulling false claims to argue a point just like Minalan.

-multiple post was made stating the mSorcs didn't need this buff just because I said they didn't need this buff =/= I said they need to be nerfed you have reading comprehension.

- Posts made infavor of improving sorc defense
- Posts pointing out the power of the Sorc kit =/= Nerf mSorc.

Just stop and L2P .

No, sorcs aren't glass cannons. There's all kinds of defense, not just resistances and HP. A true glass cannon (see: NB) gets instagibbed if another class makes contact for more than a few seconds, that doesn't happen with a mSorc.

The guy getting kited by a mSorc on his stam DK telling me to L2P, LoL.

Nope no getting kited I'm telling you how to kite silly and the power if mines that you for what ever reason fail to see since for what ever reason you can't kite.

I also like how you spent multiple post claiming that mSorcs can't kite but now you admit that its possible.
Lol L2Kite dude.

Anti_Virus · February 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

You don't understand

@Anti_Virus

You're the one who doesn't understand. If you think its impossible to eat thru a shield stack as a stamina character then you aren't playing a stamina character right and you've never seen one played right. A lot of the arguments you make, regarding how sorcs should be based around kiting and should't be able to face tank like a dk sound like the typical rhetoric thrown around by people who have no experience whatsoever on sorc. Kiting w/o shield stacking is not very effective when gap closers allow anyone to stay within melee range. A sorc can't face tank like a dk when being faced by multiple competent opponents, because shields simply don't scale with multiple sources of aggro like healing and blocking do. Daedric mines are a great skill against scrubs, who freak out and have no idea how to play against him. But once you figure out the strategy on how to counter them they are quite literally a cake-walk and can be danced around and through.

I play multiple classes and sorcs feel plenty balanced right now. If you don't play a sorc, I can see why you might think some of the things you do. But making such strong arguments without perspective is foolish. If you DO play sorc and are on PC NA, I would love to duel you on my DK or Templar so I can demonstrate some of the points I'm making.

1. Yeah this ideal is based of the the same actuation that all stamina builds run proc sets not all Im included and if you read my post to Minalan about CP placement againt Stam builds

2.yes mSorc is a ranged dps class you have Kite machanics A teleport and Mine field but you wear light armor and play from range you should kite and maintain distance and some form a ranged in a fight to be effective, the problem is most sorcs like NBs want to face tank like a Dk and have high dmg

3. I never said kite with out shield stacking making up words here to argue a false point. No one should be able to face tank and deal dmg when facing multiple opponents in an AvAvA game, bring allies along.

4. Not really, Block doesn't scale with multiple people since it drains stam and doesn't recover, You can Out dmg healing so no here, and roll dodge although it does scale with multiple people it cannot be abused since it has a stacking cost increase, addtionaly not all attacks can be dodged.

5. No, the Dmg of Mines is not the problem it's all about the root which is the key roots are krytonites for melee builds since they arw forced to roll and cannot move potentially 5 times, then you can teleport and reposition drop mines again and even the storm Atro, embrace this skill since it hasn't received any nerfs for how powerful it is.

Sorc is fine now Although these buffs were not nessiary next patch I expect some sDK buffs. The problem with mSorcs and sNBs is people try to play the class differently than it was designed.

NB => Glass cannon assassin fights gurellia warfare style and it not confrontational.
Survivability through:
- Dodge
- Stealth
- Ally Agro

Sorc=> Glass cannon mage fights from safety of range
Summons pets to aid in battle and is not confrontational
Survivability through:
-distance
- Shields
- Kiting
- ally agro

For both classes can't have your cake and eat it too if you want survivability you give up dmg and vice versa. I would definitely fight you but Im on PS4 NA.

Why the hell do you keep saying mines are a kite mechanic? I play a stam DK and mines are a joke, I can run around in them all day and the root is a moot point, you have anti-root mechanics if you have half a brain.

Streak is most definitely NOT a root mechanic. If gap closers like crit charge had a 15 second cooldown on them like in most other MMOs, sure it could be considered a kite tool (assuming it had multiple charges).

Saying mSorcs should be glass canons like NBs is just ignorant. A NB (stamblade) has infinitely more kiting/escapability than an mSorc. When I'm on a msorc on my DK he has LITERALLY 0% chance of getting away from me. I'm on him 100% from the start of the fight.

The 'mage' class in most games has never historically been a class canon. Yes they always wear light or cloth armor, but they've always had multiple defensive tools to either kite (impossible in ESO), shield, buff their armor with spells, or 100% immunity tools.

Your argument is just so blatantly wrong and BIASED (hurr hurr hypocrite) towards stam builds it's crazy. And I've NEVER played a magicka build.

A wall full of Ad Hominem, wow you know you don't have to agree with my opinion right? But you also don't have to be rude about it,

I didn't say streak was a root machanic it was a kite machanic.

I'm not biased but beleive what ever you want too next time you repy to me i'll ignore you since you just insult.

Lol This thread is going to be locked soon.

Lol, somebody can't take criticism.

First off, none of what I said was ad hominem, do you even know what the term means? Second, I think it's very clear that I meant streak being used as a kiting tool, which it absolutely is not - and that's a fact, not an opinion. You can't kite in this game.

You're stating your opinion that sorcs got overbuffed based on FACTS about their gameplay - which are blatantly wrong. Sorcs can't kite, good ones try to kite me all the time and fail. Sorcs should not be glass cannons, because they have zero methods of keeping a stam build off of them. ZERO.

And rat, I really don't know what you're talking about with crit rushing into a curse proc + frag, that combo wouldn't get me below 80% health.

Still here I see, you didn't make constructive criticism you just whined like a little baby because I didn't agree with you.

Yes you can kite in this game just because you can't L2P and kite doesn't make it impossible L2P with the tools you have on your Sorc.

Streak is a kiting Tool, it allows you to reposition from melee builds.

Btw you talk as if you aren't a mSorc but I know you are. Stating that you "never played a magicka build" in all caps as if that somehow validates your claim is laughable, If you have problems against a stam dk L2P kid.

[Edit]

Sorcs are already glass canons with no shields up they get killed which is why they need to kite, I.E. Daedric mines

mSorcs wear LA if you think they should be tanks you're a fool. Troll again.

LOL! How I think you misunderstand what the term 'whine' means now. You have SERIOUS reading comprehension issues.

You clearly know I'm a mSorc because I'm calling out your ignorance on class balance, nice argument kid. I play stamblade and stam dk, have since early release, don't even have a sorc created on my list. I don't need to validate my claim, I'm stating hard facts from the game. You're stating biased opinions complaining about a class that's not stam getting a buff. And for the record, I've stated in this thread that I believe mSorcs were in a great place before this patch and every buff they received was unnecessary. But when you see some ignorant buffoon spouting nonsensical garbage in a thread he's been necroing for weeks, it's hard not to get involved.

I wreck good sorcs all the time on both stamblade and stam dk, that's the point. If they gimped them in the way you're suggesting based on your completely wrong points you're throwing around, they would be a joke of a class.

Listen to the GOOD sorcs on here tell you kiting is impossible. If you're getting kited playing your stam dk then you're doing something seriously wrong. It's so incredibly easy to not get kited in this game, no... it's impossible. Yeah pretty sure I've already stated that. Streak is not a *** kiting tool, stop spouting that nonsense.

I also never said msorcs should be tanks. Again, try some reading comprehension sport. I said they shouldn't be glass cannons. There is a middle ground.

I do agree anti virus does seem kind of stamina biased or he just struggles with sorcs. Everyone struggles with something but, I have to disagree about this one if a sorc can't kite a single player while using mines, streak and a destro staff they aren't all that good. When your opponent hits your mine they are rooted all you have to do is a little bunny hop back and you are out of melee range. They can't target you with melee attacks but you can still hit them. They are forced to dodge roll if they are stamina and most magicka build will try to shield out the root and you can use this time to get behind them while they are rooted in your mines (very strong kiting tactic). This is what kiting is in ESO and it's very effective. Especially because root spam is so strong. once all your mines are gone streak and repeat. Open world PvP you need to use streak in conjunction with LoS like rocks and trees but it is also very strong. I agree fully though that you can't kite more than two or three people at a time using this through. Always forcing you to fight the remaining people in melee range.

I use the same kiting strategy on my magblade as well, and I literally win over 90℅ of my duels doing this is hard to lose when your opponent can't apply constant pressure on you. Just root spam and move. You will always be just outside melee range. Even though they are kind of in your face they can't target you with melee attacks. I think this is what separates really good range casters from decent range casters

How am I biased? I never complained about mSorcs nor have I ever asked for nerfed. No matter what that fool nellzar will say.

They just don't agree with my opinion that mSorcs shouldn't have received the buffs they got. Which is fine. Although I gave suggestion on how to improve the class as a whole like a magicka based dodgeroll, Un nerfing streak etc.

Praising Class machanics =/= Complaining, If I really had a problem with it I would suggest for it to be nerfed.

I think biased was the wrong word. Some of your post come off as very anti magsorc though. I did agree with some of your suggestions. Like shield stacking being gone I think ESO as a whole hate shield stacking. I won't even accept a duel request for a magsorc vs magsorc fight it's so bad. I also think most PvP sorcs are against the curse change. It's just the tone in which you write comes off as being anti magicka in general. Lol I'm very anti dk both forms I think they are way too strong even though I have a stam dk. Some people just think other classes are too strong. Some of the MagSorcs in this post hate nightblades. I think what would help alot of threads in the forums is if players played both stam and magicka classes which most people don't. always leading to one thinking the grass is greener for the other side. I agree it was pretty balanced in 1T. The only problem came in open world PvP. destro staff users lacked burst and would alot of times be focused and forced to fight in melee range and your spammable dps was so weak. so a destro damage buff was needed. On the flip side this will put magsorc over the top in duels most people are already realizing this. The only people i have been able to duel on a consistent basis are dks and mag sorcs. You don't see alot of the other classes dueling.

Great post, yeah I might come as 'anti-sorc' but I am not biased, in truth NBs are more of my bane than a sorc with fear forcing me to drop block and incap.

But mSorcs has tons of defensive abilities that just aren't recognized by some of the players here and it's puzzling to me. What really ticked me off was more indirect nerfs to Reflective scales which is my favorite ability in the game it seems like each patch more and more ranged skills by pass this skill Cloak and Streak is not nearly as useless as this skill atm.

In the PVE side the buffs to sorc help it out for Dps I like that change but it also boosted their burst alot in pvp which I don't agree with, it also made all caster builds ( although sorcs are the best caster) superior to melee builds in pve dps since they have survivability.

Moving forward I would like some changes to sDKs now most people are going to be quick to say "NO!" because a lot of them wear a combination of Tremorscale/Veli/Selene and Viper and that's a fair opinion but no one opens there mind up to the other stam DKs that don't run these sets.

I Don't run Proc sets at all just crafted sets and believe me playing an sDK without free dmg from your armor os a real challenge, just like not all NBs gank and not all Sorcs use Staves.

Anti_Virus · February 2017

Derra wrote: »

@Anti_Virus

kiting against a competent player is not possible. You have to fight them head on. Mines only delay a fight. A competent player won´t fight you when you camp your mines until he outnumberes you.

If you really think kiting and actually staying away from danger should be a valid playstyle for sorcs gapclosers need a 100% overhaul.

I´m not disagreeing with your point on sorcs. I´m just saying the arguments you make in favor of sorcs are just as biased (and untrue - because it does not work in practice) as the arguments made by people defending them.

I´ve posted in another topic:

Derra wrote: »

I personally think the problem with magica sorcs is currently:

Curse (the two hits always being added together in death recap does not make it better - no you don´t get hit for 12k+ curses - those are both explosions and the deathrecap is terrible).
Curse being undefendable was always a little cheesy - but balanced simply by the fact of not many sorcs running around and using it effectively.
Nowadays getting cursed by 3 or 4 sorcs means you´re 100% defensive for the next 12s or you will simply blow up to unavoidable high burst dmg.
I think the ability needs to be redone. Velocious curse needs to be returned into it´s former 1 explosion state. Daedric prey should be turned into a 12s dot dealing dmg equivalent to the current haunting curse. The double burst on a fire and forget skill is too good.

Pirate skeleton stacking on shields and the ability of stacking harness + hardened on 100% hp.
Ways of fixing that? Well pirate needs some kind of rework. It´s too good for a defensive set.
I´m a big fan of harness + hardened not stacking (with a mechanic increasing shieldstrengh for multiple attackers - something like 5% buffed mitigation on shields for every attacker: duration 5s stacks up to 5 times for five diferent attackers).
Also it could be debateable to create a mechanic that does not allow for more combined shield size than 150% of your hp (pve) and 75% of your hp in cyro (again with a mechanic to let shields scale mildly with number of attackers).

Destro buff (it simply benefits sorcs more than other classes because they´re the only class using destro + resto by classdesign and being survivable in that setup). There are too few magblades around to tell.
Changing 2h weapons to work as two setpieces would go a long way in making destro destro or destro resto vaible on templar and DK - we would then be able to tell if sorc is truely better with destro staves or if it´s just the setup not being well supported by other classes currently.

Whoops missed your post,

Well Teleport is pretty good especially if you LOS around trees, but since gap closers are a thing and teleport has a cost increase machanic its not as good this is where mines come into play and its the root that makes it good, but

Yes I will always advocate for some kind of toning down of gap closers they are way out of control atm,
-Snaring
-Spammable

I think what needs to be done is give it the streak/dodge roll cost treatment so it cannot be spammed and remove the snare from it. Or IMO just un-nerf Streak so mSorcs can be more mobile again I personally like being able to teleport a lot.

But let me stop there some people think I'm just a mSorc hater that wants their precious class nerfed...

Derra · February 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

@Anti_Virus

kiting against a competent player is not possible. You have to fight them head on. Mines only delay a fight. A competent player won´t fight you when you camp your mines until he outnumberes you.

If you really think kiting and actually staying away from danger should be a valid playstyle for sorcs gapclosers need a 100% overhaul.

I´m not disagreeing with your point on sorcs. I´m just saying the arguments you make in favor of sorcs are just as biased (and untrue - because it does not work in practice) as the arguments made by people defending them.

I´ve posted in another topic:

Derra wrote: »

I personally think the problem with magica sorcs is currently:

Curse (the two hits always being added together in death recap does not make it better - no you don´t get hit for 12k+ curses - those are both explosions and the deathrecap is terrible).
Curse being undefendable was always a little cheesy - but balanced simply by the fact of not many sorcs running around and using it effectively.
Nowadays getting cursed by 3 or 4 sorcs means you´re 100% defensive for the next 12s or you will simply blow up to unavoidable high burst dmg.
I think the ability needs to be redone. Velocious curse needs to be returned into it´s former 1 explosion state. Daedric prey should be turned into a 12s dot dealing dmg equivalent to the current haunting curse. The double burst on a fire and forget skill is too good.

Pirate skeleton stacking on shields and the ability of stacking harness + hardened on 100% hp.
Ways of fixing that? Well pirate needs some kind of rework. It´s too good for a defensive set.
I´m a big fan of harness + hardened not stacking (with a mechanic increasing shieldstrengh for multiple attackers - something like 5% buffed mitigation on shields for every attacker: duration 5s stacks up to 5 times for five diferent attackers).
Also it could be debateable to create a mechanic that does not allow for more combined shield size than 150% of your hp (pve) and 75% of your hp in cyro (again with a mechanic to let shields scale mildly with number of attackers).

Destro buff (it simply benefits sorcs more than other classes because they´re the only class using destro + resto by classdesign and being survivable in that setup). There are too few magblades around to tell.
Changing 2h weapons to work as two setpieces would go a long way in making destro destro or destro resto vaible on templar and DK - we would then be able to tell if sorc is truely better with destro staves or if it´s just the setup not being well supported by other classes currently.

Whoops missed your post,

Well Teleport is pretty good especially if you LOS around trees, but since gap closers are a thing and teleport has a cost increase machanic its not as good this is where mines come into play and its the root that makes it good, but

Yes I will always advocate for some kind of toning down of gap closers they are way out of control atm,
-Snaring
-Spammable

I think what needs to be done is give it the streak/dodge roll cost treatment so it cannot be spammed and remove the snare from it. Or IMO just un-nerf Streak so mSorcs can be more mobile again I personally like being able to teleport a lot.

But let me stop there some people think I'm just a mSorc hater that wants their precious class nerfed...

I think we can agree magica sorc got adjusted in the wrong departments with the latest patch and is now somewhat overperforming (sadly in the already fotm loadouts in terms of skills and gear).

I honestly don´t think they can unnerf streak - it´s just too abuseable. Just as cloak is on a ranged magblade. Both skills just scream trolling and in the process attract players intending to do so.

But hey - i´m a magica sorc and want the new curse nerfed. It´s only empowering players who were previously unable to utilize the 3.5s curse in pvp.
In my opinion a fire and forget burst skill just should not be a thing.

thankyourat · February 2017

Derra wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

@Anti_Virus

kiting against a competent player is not possible. You have to fight them head on. Mines only delay a fight. A competent player won´t fight you when you camp your mines until he outnumberes you.

If you really think kiting and actually staying away from danger should be a valid playstyle for sorcs gapclosers need a 100% overhaul.

I´m not disagreeing with your point on sorcs. I´m just saying the arguments you make in favor of sorcs are just as biased (and untrue - because it does not work in practice) as the arguments made by people defending them.

I´ve posted in another topic:

Derra wrote: »

I personally think the problem with magica sorcs is currently:

Curse (the two hits always being added together in death recap does not make it better - no you don´t get hit for 12k+ curses - those are both explosions and the deathrecap is terrible).
Curse being undefendable was always a little cheesy - but balanced simply by the fact of not many sorcs running around and using it effectively.
Nowadays getting cursed by 3 or 4 sorcs means you´re 100% defensive for the next 12s or you will simply blow up to unavoidable high burst dmg.
I think the ability needs to be redone. Velocious curse needs to be returned into it´s former 1 explosion state. Daedric prey should be turned into a 12s dot dealing dmg equivalent to the current haunting curse. The double burst on a fire and forget skill is too good.

Pirate skeleton stacking on shields and the ability of stacking harness + hardened on 100% hp.
Ways of fixing that? Well pirate needs some kind of rework. It´s too good for a defensive set.
I´m a big fan of harness + hardened not stacking (with a mechanic increasing shieldstrengh for multiple attackers - something like 5% buffed mitigation on shields for every attacker: duration 5s stacks up to 5 times for five diferent attackers).
Also it could be debateable to create a mechanic that does not allow for more combined shield size than 150% of your hp (pve) and 75% of your hp in cyro (again with a mechanic to let shields scale mildly with number of attackers).

Destro buff (it simply benefits sorcs more than other classes because they´re the only class using destro + resto by classdesign and being survivable in that setup). There are too few magblades around to tell.
Changing 2h weapons to work as two setpieces would go a long way in making destro destro or destro resto vaible on templar and DK - we would then be able to tell if sorc is truely better with destro staves or if it´s just the setup not being well supported by other classes currently.

Whoops missed your post,

Well Teleport is pretty good especially if you LOS around trees, but since gap closers are a thing and teleport has a cost increase machanic its not as good this is where mines come into play and its the root that makes it good, but

Yes I will always advocate for some kind of toning down of gap closers they are way out of control atm,
-Snaring
-Spammable

I think what needs to be done is give it the streak/dodge roll cost treatment so it cannot be spammed and remove the snare from it. Or IMO just un-nerf Streak so mSorcs can be more mobile again I personally like being able to teleport a lot.

But let me stop there some people think I'm just a mSorc hater that wants their precious class nerfed...

I think we can agree magica sorc got adjusted in the wrong departments with the latest patch and is now somewhat overperforming (sadly in the already fotm loadouts in terms of skills and gear).

I honestly don´t think they can unnerf streak - it´s just too abuseable. Just as cloak is on a ranged magblade. Both skills just scream trolling and in the process attract players intending to do so.

But hey - i´m a magica sorc and want the new curse nerfed. It´s only empowering players who were previously unable to utilize the 3.5s curse in pvp.
In my opinion a fire and forget burst skill just should not be a thing.

I've main a magblade since console launch and now that cloak is working decently again I find myself abusing it. I actually dropped annulment for it. But the thing is if you are light armor the only way to survive is by trolling mechanics. On my magblade I have 3 options abuse 15k dampen shield with pirate skeleton (trolling) be a ganker (trolling) or high burst root spammer cloak abuser (lol also trolling). It's pretty much the same way on mag sorc except I only have one option, shield stack (bad game design/trolling) I would actually like shield stacking to be removed but light armor is so bad defensively that sorcs would need a mobility buff to make up for the change which would be revert streak. Which I agree would be kind of trolly but what other options would a light armor sorc have open world with only one damage shield. Unless they do something to make light armor more viable defensively in cyrodiil you are going to have to clutch somewhat onto trolling mechanics to survive. Especially since burst gets higher every update, and light armor users have small stamina pools so basic defensive mechanics like block and dodge roll can be out of the question sometimes

Derra · February 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

@Anti_Virus

kiting against a competent player is not possible. You have to fight them head on. Mines only delay a fight. A competent player won´t fight you when you camp your mines until he outnumberes you.

If you really think kiting and actually staying away from danger should be a valid playstyle for sorcs gapclosers need a 100% overhaul.

I´m not disagreeing with your point on sorcs. I´m just saying the arguments you make in favor of sorcs are just as biased (and untrue - because it does not work in practice) as the arguments made by people defending them.

I´ve posted in another topic:

Derra wrote: »

I personally think the problem with magica sorcs is currently:

Curse (the two hits always being added together in death recap does not make it better - no you don´t get hit for 12k+ curses - those are both explosions and the deathrecap is terrible).
Curse being undefendable was always a little cheesy - but balanced simply by the fact of not many sorcs running around and using it effectively.
Nowadays getting cursed by 3 or 4 sorcs means you´re 100% defensive for the next 12s or you will simply blow up to unavoidable high burst dmg.
I think the ability needs to be redone. Velocious curse needs to be returned into it´s former 1 explosion state. Daedric prey should be turned into a 12s dot dealing dmg equivalent to the current haunting curse. The double burst on a fire and forget skill is too good.

Pirate skeleton stacking on shields and the ability of stacking harness + hardened on 100% hp.
Ways of fixing that? Well pirate needs some kind of rework. It´s too good for a defensive set.
I´m a big fan of harness + hardened not stacking (with a mechanic increasing shieldstrengh for multiple attackers - something like 5% buffed mitigation on shields for every attacker: duration 5s stacks up to 5 times for five diferent attackers).
Also it could be debateable to create a mechanic that does not allow for more combined shield size than 150% of your hp (pve) and 75% of your hp in cyro (again with a mechanic to let shields scale mildly with number of attackers).

Destro buff (it simply benefits sorcs more than other classes because they´re the only class using destro + resto by classdesign and being survivable in that setup). There are too few magblades around to tell.
Changing 2h weapons to work as two setpieces would go a long way in making destro destro or destro resto vaible on templar and DK - we would then be able to tell if sorc is truely better with destro staves or if it´s just the setup not being well supported by other classes currently.

Whoops missed your post,

Well Teleport is pretty good especially if you LOS around trees, but since gap closers are a thing and teleport has a cost increase machanic its not as good this is where mines come into play and its the root that makes it good, but

Yes I will always advocate for some kind of toning down of gap closers they are way out of control atm,
-Snaring
-Spammable

I think what needs to be done is give it the streak/dodge roll cost treatment so it cannot be spammed and remove the snare from it. Or IMO just un-nerf Streak so mSorcs can be more mobile again I personally like being able to teleport a lot.

But let me stop there some people think I'm just a mSorc hater that wants their precious class nerfed...

I think we can agree magica sorc got adjusted in the wrong departments with the latest patch and is now somewhat overperforming (sadly in the already fotm loadouts in terms of skills and gear).

I honestly don´t think they can unnerf streak - it´s just too abuseable. Just as cloak is on a ranged magblade. Both skills just scream trolling and in the process attract players intending to do so.

But hey - i´m a magica sorc and want the new curse nerfed. It´s only empowering players who were previously unable to utilize the 3.5s curse in pvp.
In my opinion a fire and forget burst skill just should not be a thing.

I've main a magblade since console launch and now that cloak is working decently again I find myself abusing it. I actually dropped annulment for it. But the thing is if you are light armor the only way to survive is by trolling mechanics. On my magblade I have 3 options abuse 15k dampen shield with pirate skeleton (trolling) be a ganker (trolling) or high burst root spammer cloak abuser (lol also trolling). It's pretty much the same way on mag sorc except I only have one option, shield stack (bad game design/trolling) I would actually like shield stacking to be removed but light armor is so bad defensively that sorcs would need a mobility buff to make up for the change which would be revert streak. Which I agree would be kind of trolly but what other options would a light armor sorc have open world with only one damage shield. Unless they do something to make light armor more viable defensively in cyrodiil you are going to have to clutch somewhat onto trolling mechanics to survive. Especially since burst gets higher every update, and light armor users have small stamina pools so basic defensive mechanics like block and dodge roll can be out of the question sometimes

I think shields are not that much of a trollmechanic anymore if not combined with pirate skeleton (or stacked).

The more i think of it i´d like a mechanic for shields that only allows a character to have shields 150% the size of their HP in pve and 75% in pvp.
In the process they´d have to add a mechanic to shields offering mild scaling for multiple attacker scenarios.

Lord-Otto · February 2017

Just a little semantics here:

Magblades cannot shieldstack. They have one shield and Healing Ward. Healing Ward is a delayed burst heal, unlike Vigor's HoT. It's more like Rallye's burst heal, minus the HoT, plus protection at the cost of heal.

I point that out because it's not like what sorcs used to do to magicka builds before the physical Annulment change. Stamina builds didn't know what shield stacking was, until then. But they sure cried the loudest. *sigh*

It's important to note that Hardened+Annulment is unwanted. Healing Ward must continue to be combinable with another shield, unless you totally want to redesign the skill and magicka defense as a whole.

Derra · February 2017

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Just a little semantics here:

Magblades cannot shieldstack. They have one shield and Healing Ward. Healing Ward is a delayed burst heal, unlike Vigor's HoT. It's more like Rallye's burst heal, minus the HoT, plus protection at the cost of heal.

I point that out because it's not like what sorcs used to do to magicka builds before the physical Annulment change. Stamina builds didn't know what shield stacking was, until then. But they sure cried the loudest. *sigh*

It's important to note that Hardened+Annulment is unwanted. Healing Ward must continue to be combinable with another shield, unless you totally want to redesign the skill and magicka defense as a whole.

I´d vote for a redesign of healing ward making the initial heal scale while reducing the scaling coefficient of the shield.
What do you think?

thankyourat · February 2017

Derra wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

@Anti_Virus

kiting against a competent player is not possible. You have to fight them head on. Mines only delay a fight. A competent player won´t fight you when you camp your mines until he outnumberes you.

If you really think kiting and actually staying away from danger should be a valid playstyle for sorcs gapclosers need a 100% overhaul.

I´m not disagreeing with your point on sorcs. I´m just saying the arguments you make in favor of sorcs are just as biased (and untrue - because it does not work in practice) as the arguments made by people defending them.

I´ve posted in another topic:

Derra wrote: »

I personally think the problem with magica sorcs is currently:

Curse (the two hits always being added together in death recap does not make it better - no you don´t get hit for 12k+ curses - those are both explosions and the deathrecap is terrible).
Curse being undefendable was always a little cheesy - but balanced simply by the fact of not many sorcs running around and using it effectively.
Nowadays getting cursed by 3 or 4 sorcs means you´re 100% defensive for the next 12s or you will simply blow up to unavoidable high burst dmg.
I think the ability needs to be redone. Velocious curse needs to be returned into it´s former 1 explosion state. Daedric prey should be turned into a 12s dot dealing dmg equivalent to the current haunting curse. The double burst on a fire and forget skill is too good.

Pirate skeleton stacking on shields and the ability of stacking harness + hardened on 100% hp.
Ways of fixing that? Well pirate needs some kind of rework. It´s too good for a defensive set.
I´m a big fan of harness + hardened not stacking (with a mechanic increasing shieldstrengh for multiple attackers - something like 5% buffed mitigation on shields for every attacker: duration 5s stacks up to 5 times for five diferent attackers).
Also it could be debateable to create a mechanic that does not allow for more combined shield size than 150% of your hp (pve) and 75% of your hp in cyro (again with a mechanic to let shields scale mildly with number of attackers).

Destro buff (it simply benefits sorcs more than other classes because they´re the only class using destro + resto by classdesign and being survivable in that setup). There are too few magblades around to tell.
Changing 2h weapons to work as two setpieces would go a long way in making destro destro or destro resto vaible on templar and DK - we would then be able to tell if sorc is truely better with destro staves or if it´s just the setup not being well supported by other classes currently.

Whoops missed your post,

Well Teleport is pretty good especially if you LOS around trees, but since gap closers are a thing and teleport has a cost increase machanic its not as good this is where mines come into play and its the root that makes it good, but

Yes I will always advocate for some kind of toning down of gap closers they are way out of control atm,
-Snaring
-Spammable

I think what needs to be done is give it the streak/dodge roll cost treatment so it cannot be spammed and remove the snare from it. Or IMO just un-nerf Streak so mSorcs can be more mobile again I personally like being able to teleport a lot.

But let me stop there some people think I'm just a mSorc hater that wants their precious class nerfed...

I think we can agree magica sorc got adjusted in the wrong departments with the latest patch and is now somewhat overperforming (sadly in the already fotm loadouts in terms of skills and gear).

I honestly don´t think they can unnerf streak - it´s just too abuseable. Just as cloak is on a ranged magblade. Both skills just scream trolling and in the process attract players intending to do so.

But hey - i´m a magica sorc and want the new curse nerfed. It´s only empowering players who were previously unable to utilize the 3.5s curse in pvp.
In my opinion a fire and forget burst skill just should not be a thing.

I've main a magblade since console launch and now that cloak is working decently again I find myself abusing it. I actually dropped annulment for it. But the thing is if you are light armor the only way to survive is by trolling mechanics. On my magblade I have 3 options abuse 15k dampen shield with pirate skeleton (trolling) be a ganker (trolling) or high burst root spammer cloak abuser (lol also trolling). It's pretty much the same way on mag sorc except I only have one option, shield stack (bad game design/trolling) I would actually like shield stacking to be removed but light armor is so bad defensively that sorcs would need a mobility buff to make up for the change which would be revert streak. Which I agree would be kind of trolly but what other options would a light armor sorc have open world with only one damage shield. Unless they do something to make light armor more viable defensively in cyrodiil you are going to have to clutch somewhat onto trolling mechanics to survive. Especially since burst gets higher every update, and light armor users have small stamina pools so basic defensive mechanics like block and dodge roll can be out of the question sometimes

I think shields are not that much of a trollmechanic anymore if not combined with pirate skeleton (or stacked).

The more i think of it i´d like a mechanic for shields that only allows a character to have shields 150% the size of their HP in pve and 75% in pvp.
In the process they´d have to add a mechanic to shields offering mild scaling for multiple attacker scenarios.

Yes I agree 1 solo shield isn't a troll mechanic at all but I found it to be very weak for solo pvp. Forcing me to use heavy armor on my magblade because cloak was broken. I was able to manage on my sorc because double shields is decently strong. I just feel like if they took away the ability for shields to stack it would pretty much ruin sorcs in open world pvp if they didn't add some sort of mobility. I actually like your shield idea I just don't know how they would implement it.

Lord-Otto · February 2017

Derra wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Just a little semantics here:

Magblades cannot shieldstack. They have one shield and Healing Ward. Healing Ward is a delayed burst heal, unlike Vigor's HoT. It's more like Rallye's burst heal, minus the HoT, plus protection at the cost of heal.

I point that out because it's not like what sorcs used to do to magicka builds before the physical Annulment change. Stamina builds didn't know what shield stacking was, until then. But they sure cried the loudest. *sigh*

It's important to note that Hardened+Annulment is unwanted. Healing Ward must continue to be combinable with another shield, unless you totally want to redesign the skill and magicka defense as a whole.

I´d vote for a redesign of healing ward making the initial heal scale while reducing the scaling coefficient of the shield.
What do you think?

I think that would overpower it.
Shields already provide a quasi-burst defense, but to compensate, you'll stay in execute range longer.
If you make Healing Ward a strong burst heal, it'll eliminate that weakness, which will turn sorc fights into a nightmare.

If anything, you could slap a mild HoT on it, at the cost of shield strength. But that would be disadvantegous for magblades and magDKs. It would only be okay for sorcs.
I would rather not touch Healing Ward and focus on Hardened+Annulment first. I think fixing that would make changes to Healing obsolete.

To me, it's pretty simple, mag builds need a proper reactive defense. Stamina has elaborate block and dodge. If magicka could conjure a strong, short-lived shield to deal with burst, we wouldn't need to shieldstack to begin with.