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[IN PROGRESS] PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
Magicka Sorcs got WAY to much love...
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Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »sorcs just need shield to be critable and 20 seconds long again then boom class is fine, nightblades are fine, templars are fine, dk's however need to be nerfed into the ground, stomped on, lit on fire, and left to burn in a ditch far away from me
What's the point of having a 20 second crittable shield? Most of they time, they don't last 6 seconds while being non crittable, if they are to be crittable, they'll be gone in less than 1 light attack + skill, so there's absolutely 0 point in buffering their duration lolkyle.wilson wrote: »A lot of players that have been running stam meta builds the last year, returned to the mag builds that they use to main before the massive stam buffs that went on for a year. Every patch was a stam buff before this one.
2 patches. DB and SotH. One Tamriel wasn't stamina or magicka, it was Eye of the Viper.
People want the duration so they can stack hardend ward and anulment, effectively giving sorcs 50k health again and 1 shield to refresh in the 20 second duration unless they get bursted thru both. Put Bastion in the Blue CP tree like the healing one is and you might get it.
Alright, I'll key in all the potatoes that think critable shields would be awesome...
Shields have no armor or mitigation, critting one would be a full hit for 22-25K on an onslaught out of stealth.
Shields max out at 12K or so, so the player takes the spill damage. All 15K or so of it, because light armor has no mitigation either after taking into account a sharpened weapon.
Add in a damage proc or two, and the sorc is dead. One shot. What good is a 20 second shield that offers no protection?
I'm sure that's fun for you, but not for them. Shields are fine.
Shields also benefit from dmg mitigation abilities like CP and Bone Pirate monster set which grants major protection 30% dmg reduction with a shield up.
It's possible to put 100 pts into hardy to gain 25% dmg mitigation from stam builds to your shields and use Harness + Hardened to gain free magicka againt mag builds while using Bone Pirate monster set for massive mitigation, its pretty effective.
You forgot those
So... I have a 10% chance not to get one shot with pirate skeleton? You know that has to proc right? Try again man.
Hardy is cancelled by mighty. Are you saying you have no points in mighty?
Come on. You know better than this.
100 pts into hardy cancels out 100 pts into Mighty. So no one should hit your shields a high amount especially since it can't crit
Bone Pirate monster set can grant you 30% addtional dmg mitigation with shields up lowering burst dmg against your shields. Yes it has a proc but shields are so effective it can proc easily it can proc on dots and if you Mine Camp it will be extremely easy to proc and survive.
Then You can stack Harness Magicka with Hardened ward against mag builds can restore free magicka from them.
I'm talking about stamina fights here, harness won't do anything other than fall instantly to proc damage. How big do you think harness is in Cyrodiil?
So... Really? Your solution is to force us all to wear pirate skeleton and put 100 points into hardy? Thus critable shields are balanced?
I'm really glad you're not in charge of balancing.
You don't understand, Putting 100pts into hardy Will lower burst dmg no Stam build should be breaking your wards quickly since it balances the dmg out and it won't ever crit. 12K wards stacked with 9-10k Harness + Hardened wards shouldn't break before the timer ends (6 secs) since CP Hardy Cancels out the The CP mighty.
If you really have trouble you can add additional dmg mitigation with the Monster set although its not needed.
Harness magicka should be only 2K pts less than Hardend ward.
I'll explain the game mechanics since you're not feeling it here.
12K shields is with 100 points into bastion. If you rob that, your shields are closer to 9-10K. Critable.
Unless you put no points into defense against dots or elemental defender.
Like it or not, shields were made non-critable for a reason. They have zero armor. They have zero impen. Putting mitigation points into shields only partially counters 100 in mighty, that doesn't stop a 25K critical hit against a no-impen shield. I already HAVE hardy, impen, and light armor mitigation without the shield, and it still hits that hard. Do I need to go through the math with you?
I know you want to be alpha class again after being so powerful for so long in One Tamriel. The problem isn't the nightblade class, it's that many nightblade players aren't nearly as good as they thought they were now that other classes are competitive.
Edited by Minalan on 23 February 2017 23:562 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »sorcs just need shield to be critable and 20 seconds long again then boom class is fine, nightblades are fine, templars are fine, dk's however need to be nerfed into the ground, stomped on, lit on fire, and left to burn in a ditch far away from me
What's the point of having a 20 second crittable shield? Most of they time, they don't last 6 seconds while being non crittable, if they are to be crittable, they'll be gone in less than 1 light attack + skill, so there's absolutely 0 point in buffering their duration lolkyle.wilson wrote: »A lot of players that have been running stam meta builds the last year, returned to the mag builds that they use to main before the massive stam buffs that went on for a year. Every patch was a stam buff before this one.
2 patches. DB and SotH. One Tamriel wasn't stamina or magicka, it was Eye of the Viper.
People want the duration so they can stack hardend ward and anulment, effectively giving sorcs 50k health again and 1 shield to refresh in the 20 second duration unless they get bursted thru both. Put Bastion in the Blue CP tree like the healing one is and you might get it.
Alright, I'll key in all the potatoes that think critable shields would be awesome...
Shields have no armor or mitigation, critting one would be a full hit for 22-25K on an onslaught out of stealth.
Shields max out at 12K or so, so the player takes the spill damage. All 15K or so of it, because light armor has no mitigation either after taking into account a sharpened weapon.
Add in a damage proc or two, and the sorc is dead. One shot. What good is a 20 second shield that offers no protection?
I'm sure that's fun for you, but not for them. Shields are fine.
Shields also benefit from dmg mitigation abilities like CP and Bone Pirate monster set which grants major protection 30% dmg reduction with a shield up.
It's possible to put 100 pts into hardy to gain 25% dmg mitigation from stam builds to your shields and use Harness + Hardened to gain free magicka againt mag builds while using Bone Pirate monster set for massive mitigation, its pretty effective.
You forgot those
So... I have a 10% chance not to get one shot with pirate skeleton? You know that has to proc right? Try again man.
Hardy is cancelled by mighty. Are you saying you have no points in mighty?
Come on. You know better than this.
100 pts into hardy cancels out 100 pts into Mighty. So no one should hit your shields a high amount especially since it can't crit
Bone Pirate monster set can grant you 30% addtional dmg mitigation with shields up lowering burst dmg against your shields. Yes it has a proc but shields are so effective it can proc easily it can proc on dots and if you Mine Camp it will be extremely easy to proc and survive.
Then You can stack Harness Magicka with Hardened ward against mag builds can restore free magicka from them.
I'm talking about stamina fights here, harness won't do anything other than fall instantly to proc damage. How big do you think harness is in Cyrodiil?
So... Really? Your solution is to force us all to wear pirate skeleton and put 100 points into hardy? Thus critable shields are balanced?
I'm really glad you're not in charge of balancing.
You don't understand, Putting 100pts into hardy Will lower burst dmg no Stam build should be breaking your wards quickly since it balances the dmg out and it won't ever crit. 12K wards stacked with 9-10k Harness + Hardened wards shouldn't break before the timer ends (6 secs) since CP Hardy Cancels out the The CP mighty.
If you really have trouble you can add additional dmg mitigation with the Monster set although its not needed.
Harness magicka should be only 2K pts less than Hardend ward.
I'll explain the game mechanics since you're not feeling it here.
12K shields is with 100 points into bastion. If you rob that, your shields are closer to 9-10K. Critable.
Unless you put no points into defense against dots or elemental defender.
Like it or not, shields were made non-critable for a reason. They have zero armor. They have zero impen. Putting mitigation points into shields only partially counters 100 in mighty, that doesn't stop a 25K critical hit against a no-impen shield. I already HAVE hardy, impen, and light armor mitigation without the shield, and it still hits that hard. Do I need to go through the math with you?
I know you want to be alpha class again after being so powerful for so long in One Tamriel. The problem isn't the nightblade class, it's that many nightblade players aren't nearly as good as they thought they were now that other classes are competitive.
1. I am Not a NB I'm a DK I think I've stated that previously but you continue to call me a NB because you are biased against them
2. Shields have no armor but again have dmg mitigation through CP and Buffs like major and minor protection
3. If you are shielded most of the time you will not recieve a crit Those big shield will make sure of it. And dots have no effect on shields since you have the luxury of refreshing them Dots are most effective on block and dodging targets since it can't be mitigated that way.
4. Your class Similarly to the NB is a Glass cannon class and should be played as such remember you're in LA not Heavy you shouldn't be face tanking like a DK you use range and Kite targets with the tools in your kit. In this case you have a teleport for mobility. And for stationary battles you have daedric mines for benefit.
Each patch ZOS has nerfed the DKs primary defense against ranged attacks directly or indirectly
- Meteor unreflectable
- Lightning staff attack unreflectable( not new)
- Force Pulse unreflectable
- reflection cap
- EOtS( no counter )
- Curse change( never was reflectable but blockable)
Conversely They have nerfed The NBs Class defining defense machanic, Cloak
- Flare
- Mage light( both morphs)
- Detect pots
- Meteor goes through cloak
- Soul Strike and morphs prevent cloak for 2 secs
- Expert hunter and morphs
- No more purge
- Curse pulls them out
- etc.
No significant change has occurred to hinder mSorcs abilities except Streak and its morphs. As patches go by it becomes more redundant to slot Reflective Scales on my DK and for NB players Cloak(forces them into ganking) mSorcs are still glass cannon ranged tanks and it seems to be fine with you and the devs.Edited by Anti_Virus on 24 February 2017 00:34Power Wealth And Influence.1 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »sorcs just need shield to be critable and 20 seconds long again then boom class is fine, nightblades are fine, templars are fine, dk's however need to be nerfed into the ground, stomped on, lit on fire, and left to burn in a ditch far away from me
What's the point of having a 20 second crittable shield? Most of they time, they don't last 6 seconds while being non crittable, if they are to be crittable, they'll be gone in less than 1 light attack + skill, so there's absolutely 0 point in buffering their duration lolkyle.wilson wrote: »A lot of players that have been running stam meta builds the last year, returned to the mag builds that they use to main before the massive stam buffs that went on for a year. Every patch was a stam buff before this one.
2 patches. DB and SotH. One Tamriel wasn't stamina or magicka, it was Eye of the Viper.
People want the duration so they can stack hardend ward and anulment, effectively giving sorcs 50k health again and 1 shield to refresh in the 20 second duration unless they get bursted thru both. Put Bastion in the Blue CP tree like the healing one is and you might get it.
Alright, I'll key in all the potatoes that think critable shields would be awesome...
Shields have no armor or mitigation, critting one would be a full hit for 22-25K on an onslaught out of stealth.
Shields max out at 12K or so, so the player takes the spill damage. All 15K or so of it, because light armor has no mitigation either after taking into account a sharpened weapon.
Add in a damage proc or two, and the sorc is dead. One shot. What good is a 20 second shield that offers no protection?
I'm sure that's fun for you, but not for them. Shields are fine.
Shields also benefit from dmg mitigation abilities like CP and Bone Pirate monster set which grants major protection 30% dmg reduction with a shield up.
It's possible to put 100 pts into hardy to gain 25% dmg mitigation from stam builds to your shields and use Harness + Hardened to gain free magicka againt mag builds while using Bone Pirate monster set for massive mitigation, its pretty effective.
You forgot those
So... I have a 10% chance not to get one shot with pirate skeleton? You know that has to proc right? Try again man.
Hardy is cancelled by mighty. Are you saying you have no points in mighty?
Come on. You know better than this.
100 pts into hardy cancels out 100 pts into Mighty. So no one should hit your shields a high amount especially since it can't crit
Bone Pirate monster set can grant you 30% addtional dmg mitigation with shields up lowering burst dmg against your shields. Yes it has a proc but shields are so effective it can proc easily it can proc on dots and if you Mine Camp it will be extremely easy to proc and survive.
Then You can stack Harness Magicka with Hardened ward against mag builds can restore free magicka from them.
I'm talking about stamina fights here, harness won't do anything other than fall instantly to proc damage. How big do you think harness is in Cyrodiil?
So... Really? Your solution is to force us all to wear pirate skeleton and put 100 points into hardy? Thus critable shields are balanced?
I'm really glad you're not in charge of balancing.
You don't understand, Putting 100pts into hardy Will lower burst dmg no Stam build should be breaking your wards quickly since it balances the dmg out and it won't ever crit. 12K wards stacked with 9-10k Harness + Hardened wards shouldn't break before the timer ends (6 secs) since CP Hardy Cancels out the The CP mighty.
If you really have trouble you can add additional dmg mitigation with the Monster set although its not needed.
Harness magicka should be only 2K pts less than Hardend ward.
Man 12k wards? If you get that then how are you going to run 100 points into Hardy when you already put 100 points into bastion lol. With 41k mag and no points into bastion harness is around 6.7k in strength. To get 12k harness you would need to run almost 55k magicka and put 100 points into bastion lol. Dampen is bigger and it's what most magblades run, but as a sorc it's a much better option to run harness because you already have a big class shield. I do agree that stacked shields is a stupid mechanic and I want them to not be able to be stacked anymore. I would love it if shields weren't stackable and then to compensate they un nerfed streak, and added the purge back to cloak. But then people will complain that they can't catch a magsorc or a magblade. There's no winning1 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭thankyourat wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »sorcs just need shield to be critable and 20 seconds long again then boom class is fine, nightblades are fine, templars are fine, dk's however need to be nerfed into the ground, stomped on, lit on fire, and left to burn in a ditch far away from me
What's the point of having a 20 second crittable shield? Most of they time, they don't last 6 seconds while being non crittable, if they are to be crittable, they'll be gone in less than 1 light attack + skill, so there's absolutely 0 point in buffering their duration lolkyle.wilson wrote: »A lot of players that have been running stam meta builds the last year, returned to the mag builds that they use to main before the massive stam buffs that went on for a year. Every patch was a stam buff before this one.
2 patches. DB and SotH. One Tamriel wasn't stamina or magicka, it was Eye of the Viper.
People want the duration so they can stack hardend ward and anulment, effectively giving sorcs 50k health again and 1 shield to refresh in the 20 second duration unless they get bursted thru both. Put Bastion in the Blue CP tree like the healing one is and you might get it.
Alright, I'll key in all the potatoes that think critable shields would be awesome...
Shields have no armor or mitigation, critting one would be a full hit for 22-25K on an onslaught out of stealth.
Shields max out at 12K or so, so the player takes the spill damage. All 15K or so of it, because light armor has no mitigation either after taking into account a sharpened weapon.
Add in a damage proc or two, and the sorc is dead. One shot. What good is a 20 second shield that offers no protection?
I'm sure that's fun for you, but not for them. Shields are fine.
Shields also benefit from dmg mitigation abilities like CP and Bone Pirate monster set which grants major protection 30% dmg reduction with a shield up.
It's possible to put 100 pts into hardy to gain 25% dmg mitigation from stam builds to your shields and use Harness + Hardened to gain free magicka againt mag builds while using Bone Pirate monster set for massive mitigation, its pretty effective.
You forgot those
So... I have a 10% chance not to get one shot with pirate skeleton? You know that has to proc right? Try again man.
Hardy is cancelled by mighty. Are you saying you have no points in mighty?
Come on. You know better than this.
100 pts into hardy cancels out 100 pts into Mighty. So no one should hit your shields a high amount especially since it can't crit
Bone Pirate monster set can grant you 30% addtional dmg mitigation with shields up lowering burst dmg against your shields. Yes it has a proc but shields are so effective it can proc easily it can proc on dots and if you Mine Camp it will be extremely easy to proc and survive.
Then You can stack Harness Magicka with Hardened ward against mag builds can restore free magicka from them.
I'm talking about stamina fights here, harness won't do anything other than fall instantly to proc damage. How big do you think harness is in Cyrodiil?
So... Really? Your solution is to force us all to wear pirate skeleton and put 100 points into hardy? Thus critable shields are balanced?
I'm really glad you're not in charge of balancing.
You don't understand, Putting 100pts into hardy Will lower burst dmg no Stam build should be breaking your wards quickly since it balances the dmg out and it won't ever crit. 12K wards stacked with 9-10k Harness + Hardened wards shouldn't break before the timer ends (6 secs) since CP Hardy Cancels out the The CP mighty.
If you really have trouble you can add additional dmg mitigation with the Monster set although its not needed.
Harness magicka should be only 2K pts less than Hardend ward.
Man 12k wards? If you get that then how are you going to run 100 points into Hardy when you already put 100 points into bastion lol. With 41k mag and no points into bastion harness is around 6.7k in strength. To get 12k harness you would need to run almost 55k magicka and put 100 points into bastion lol. Dampen is bigger and it's what most magblades run, but as a sorc it's a much better option to run harness because you already have a big class shield. I do agree that stacked shields is a stupid mechanic and I want them to not be able to be stacked anymore. I would love it if shields weren't stackable and then to compensate they un nerfed streak, and added the purge back to cloak. But then people will complain that they can't catch a magsorc or a magblade. There's no winning
Yeah, the 12K Hardened ward would require a 9K pvp tool tip then multiply that by .3 and you will get about 12K, as for Harness you can get just about 10K pvp tool tip ( 9k ish) both stacked together can grant you about 19- 20K shield not including Healing ward.
I agree remove shield stacking and the streak penalty
[Edit]
You can put 100pts into bastion and 100pts into Hardy now with the CP cap at 600.
But otherwise you can put enough points to get 20% increased effectiveness.Edited by Anti_Virus on 24 February 2017 04:57Power Wealth And Influence.0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »sorcs just need shield to be critable and 20 seconds long again then boom class is fine, nightblades are fine, templars are fine, dk's however need to be nerfed into the ground, stomped on, lit on fire, and left to burn in a ditch far away from me
What's the point of having a 20 second crittable shield? Most of they time, they don't last 6 seconds while being non crittable, if they are to be crittable, they'll be gone in less than 1 light attack + skill, so there's absolutely 0 point in buffering their duration lolkyle.wilson wrote: »A lot of players that have been running stam meta builds the last year, returned to the mag builds that they use to main before the massive stam buffs that went on for a year. Every patch was a stam buff before this one.
2 patches. DB and SotH. One Tamriel wasn't stamina or magicka, it was Eye of the Viper.
People want the duration so they can stack hardend ward and anulment, effectively giving sorcs 50k health again and 1 shield to refresh in the 20 second duration unless they get bursted thru both. Put Bastion in the Blue CP tree like the healing one is and you might get it.
Alright, I'll key in all the potatoes that think critable shields would be awesome...
Shields have no armor or mitigation, critting one would be a full hit for 22-25K on an onslaught out of stealth.
Shields max out at 12K or so, so the player takes the spill damage. All 15K or so of it, because light armor has no mitigation either after taking into account a sharpened weapon.
Add in a damage proc or two, and the sorc is dead. One shot. What good is a 20 second shield that offers no protection?
I'm sure that's fun for you, but not for them. Shields are fine.
Shields also benefit from dmg mitigation abilities like CP and Bone Pirate monster set which grants major protection 30% dmg reduction with a shield up.
It's possible to put 100 pts into hardy to gain 25% dmg mitigation from stam builds to your shields and use Harness + Hardened to gain free magicka againt mag builds while using Bone Pirate monster set for massive mitigation, its pretty effective.
You forgot those
So... I have a 10% chance not to get one shot with pirate skeleton? You know that has to proc right? Try again man.
Hardy is cancelled by mighty. Are you saying you have no points in mighty?
Come on. You know better than this.
100 pts into hardy cancels out 100 pts into Mighty. So no one should hit your shields a high amount especially since it can't crit
Bone Pirate monster set can grant you 30% addtional dmg mitigation with shields up lowering burst dmg against your shields. Yes it has a proc but shields are so effective it can proc easily it can proc on dots and if you Mine Camp it will be extremely easy to proc and survive.
Then You can stack Harness Magicka with Hardened ward against mag builds can restore free magicka from them.
I'm talking about stamina fights here, harness won't do anything other than fall instantly to proc damage. How big do you think harness is in Cyrodiil?
So... Really? Your solution is to force us all to wear pirate skeleton and put 100 points into hardy? Thus critable shields are balanced?
I'm really glad you're not in charge of balancing.
You don't understand, Putting 100pts into hardy Will lower burst dmg no Stam build should be breaking your wards quickly since it balances the dmg out and it won't ever crit. 12K wards stacked with 9-10k Harness + Hardened wards shouldn't break before the timer ends (6 secs) since CP Hardy Cancels out the The CP mighty.
If you really have trouble you can add additional dmg mitigation with the Monster set although its not needed.
Harness magicka should be only 2K pts less than Hardend ward.
Man 12k wards? If you get that then how are you going to run 100 points into Hardy when you already put 100 points into bastion lol. With 41k mag and no points into bastion harness is around 6.7k in strength. To get 12k harness you would need to run almost 55k magicka and put 100 points into bastion lol. Dampen is bigger and it's what most magblades run, but as a sorc it's a much better option to run harness because you already have a big class shield. I do agree that stacked shields is a stupid mechanic and I want them to not be able to be stacked anymore. I would love it if shields weren't stackable and then to compensate they un nerfed streak, and added the purge back to cloak. But then people will complain that they can't catch a magsorc or a magblade. There's no winning
Yeah, the 12K Hardened ward would require a 9K pvp tool tip then multiply that by .3 and yoy will get about 12K, as for Harness you can get just about 10K pvp tool tip ( 9k ish) both stacked together can grant you about 19- 20K shield not including Healing ward.
I agree remove shield stacking and the streak penalty
[Edit]
You can put 100pts into bastion and 100pts into Hardy now with the CP cap at 600.
But otherwise you can put enough points to get 20% increased effectiveness.
This is what I get for arguing with potatoes.
https://youtu.be/M1y5hFXPaww
Mighty cancels out hardy.
Critable shields is a bad idea because of how they work. No armor resists. No impen. Not big enough to handle a crit.
Stamina anything is still amazingly strong, nightblades are just the easiest example of very high damage. DK's still have heavy armor, block, and incredible damage.
Sorc doesn't need a nerf.
1 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »sorcs just need shield to be critable and 20 seconds long again then boom class is fine, nightblades are fine, templars are fine, dk's however need to be nerfed into the ground, stomped on, lit on fire, and left to burn in a ditch far away from me
What's the point of having a 20 second crittable shield? Most of they time, they don't last 6 seconds while being non crittable, if they are to be crittable, they'll be gone in less than 1 light attack + skill, so there's absolutely 0 point in buffering their duration lolkyle.wilson wrote: »A lot of players that have been running stam meta builds the last year, returned to the mag builds that they use to main before the massive stam buffs that went on for a year. Every patch was a stam buff before this one.
2 patches. DB and SotH. One Tamriel wasn't stamina or magicka, it was Eye of the Viper.
People want the duration so they can stack hardend ward and anulment, effectively giving sorcs 50k health again and 1 shield to refresh in the 20 second duration unless they get bursted thru both. Put Bastion in the Blue CP tree like the healing one is and you might get it.
Alright, I'll key in all the potatoes that think critable shields would be awesome...
Shields have no armor or mitigation, critting one would be a full hit for 22-25K on an onslaught out of stealth.
Shields max out at 12K or so, so the player takes the spill damage. All 15K or so of it, because light armor has no mitigation either after taking into account a sharpened weapon.
Add in a damage proc or two, and the sorc is dead. One shot. What good is a 20 second shield that offers no protection?
I'm sure that's fun for you, but not for them. Shields are fine.
Shields also benefit from dmg mitigation abilities like CP and Bone Pirate monster set which grants major protection 30% dmg reduction with a shield up.
It's possible to put 100 pts into hardy to gain 25% dmg mitigation from stam builds to your shields and use Harness + Hardened to gain free magicka againt mag builds while using Bone Pirate monster set for massive mitigation, its pretty effective.
You forgot those
So... I have a 10% chance not to get one shot with pirate skeleton? You know that has to proc right? Try again man.
Hardy is cancelled by mighty. Are you saying you have no points in mighty?
Come on. You know better than this.
100 pts into hardy cancels out 100 pts into Mighty. So no one should hit your shields a high amount especially since it can't crit
Bone Pirate monster set can grant you 30% addtional dmg mitigation with shields up lowering burst dmg against your shields. Yes it has a proc but shields are so effective it can proc easily it can proc on dots and if you Mine Camp it will be extremely easy to proc and survive.
Then You can stack Harness Magicka with Hardened ward against mag builds can restore free magicka from them.
I'm talking about stamina fights here, harness won't do anything other than fall instantly to proc damage. How big do you think harness is in Cyrodiil?
So... Really? Your solution is to force us all to wear pirate skeleton and put 100 points into hardy? Thus critable shields are balanced?
I'm really glad you're not in charge of balancing.
You don't understand, Putting 100pts into hardy Will lower burst dmg no Stam build should be breaking your wards quickly since it balances the dmg out and it won't ever crit. 12K wards stacked with 9-10k Harness + Hardened wards shouldn't break before the timer ends (6 secs) since CP Hardy Cancels out the The CP mighty.
If you really have trouble you can add additional dmg mitigation with the Monster set although its not needed.
Harness magicka should be only 2K pts less than Hardend ward.
Man 12k wards? If you get that then how are you going to run 100 points into Hardy when you already put 100 points into bastion lol. With 41k mag and no points into bastion harness is around 6.7k in strength. To get 12k harness you would need to run almost 55k magicka and put 100 points into bastion lol. Dampen is bigger and it's what most magblades run, but as a sorc it's a much better option to run harness because you already have a big class shield. I do agree that stacked shields is a stupid mechanic and I want them to not be able to be stacked anymore. I would love it if shields weren't stackable and then to compensate they un nerfed streak, and added the purge back to cloak. But then people will complain that they can't catch a magsorc or a magblade. There's no winning
Yeah, the 12K Hardened ward would require a 9K pvp tool tip then multiply that by .3 and yoy will get about 12K, as for Harness you can get just about 10K pvp tool tip ( 9k ish) both stacked together can grant you about 19- 20K shield not including Healing ward.
I agree remove shield stacking and the streak penalty
[Edit]
You can put 100pts into bastion and 100pts into Hardy now with the CP cap at 600.
But otherwise you can put enough points to get 20% increased effectiveness.
This is what I get for arguing with potatoes.https://youtu.be/M1y5hFXPaww
Mighty cancels out hardy.
Critable shields is a bad idea because of how they work. No armor resists. No impen. Not big enough to handle a crit.
Stamina anything is still amazingly strong, nightblades are just the easiest example of very high damage. DK's still have heavy armor, block, and incredible damage.
Sorc doesn't need a nerf.
If you're calling me a "potato" then from here on out I will discredit anything you say to me since you're biased and used Ad Hominem.
If you read my long post I guess you just cherry picked the points you could argue.
The point of my posts was to debunk the notion that mSorcs are 'weak' and that they deserve this buff to them which they didn't they preformed just fine before the patch. All players lile you wanted was an easy way to kill your opposition since you guys in particular have problems against even with all the tools at your disposal to counter them.(NBs, DKs). Next patch I expect DKs (stam DKs in particular) to be improved like mSorcs have this patch.
In your above post nothing that you said is anything new and its all anecdotal and opinionated. mSorcs also have "amazing" dmg and survivability from the safety of range what's your point? Do you even evaluate all the points you said? Do you believe that heavy armor is this super OP best thing ever?
There was not one sentence or statement any anything I wrote that suggested Magicka Sorcerers needed a nerf but when you attempt to discuss with your preconceived notion of what a "potato" is (which would be you). Jump to conclusions with no fact or logic and start throwing insults.
But looking at your past post history you aren't professional at all you, expose your bias against other players and when your opinion is challenged you start insulting other players and act like a child grow up.Edited by Anti_Virus on 24 February 2017 03:21Power Wealth And Influence.2 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »sorcs just need shield to be critable and 20 seconds long again then boom class is fine, nightblades are fine, templars are fine, dk's however need to be nerfed into the ground, stomped on, lit on fire, and left to burn in a ditch far away from me
What's the point of having a 20 second crittable shield? Most of they time, they don't last 6 seconds while being non crittable, if they are to be crittable, they'll be gone in less than 1 light attack + skill, so there's absolutely 0 point in buffering their duration lolkyle.wilson wrote: »A lot of players that have been running stam meta builds the last year, returned to the mag builds that they use to main before the massive stam buffs that went on for a year. Every patch was a stam buff before this one.
2 patches. DB and SotH. One Tamriel wasn't stamina or magicka, it was Eye of the Viper.
People want the duration so they can stack hardend ward and anulment, effectively giving sorcs 50k health again and 1 shield to refresh in the 20 second duration unless they get bursted thru both. Put Bastion in the Blue CP tree like the healing one is and you might get it.
Alright, I'll key in all the potatoes that think critable shields would be awesome...
Shields have no armor or mitigation, critting one would be a full hit for 22-25K on an onslaught out of stealth.
Shields max out at 12K or so, so the player takes the spill damage. All 15K or so of it, because light armor has no mitigation either after taking into account a sharpened weapon.
Add in a damage proc or two, and the sorc is dead. One shot. What good is a 20 second shield that offers no protection?
I'm sure that's fun for you, but not for them. Shields are fine.
Shields also benefit from dmg mitigation abilities like CP and Bone Pirate monster set which grants major protection 30% dmg reduction with a shield up.
It's possible to put 100 pts into hardy to gain 25% dmg mitigation from stam builds to your shields and use Harness + Hardened to gain free magicka againt mag builds while using Bone Pirate monster set for massive mitigation, its pretty effective.
You forgot those
So... I have a 10% chance not to get one shot with pirate skeleton? You know that has to proc right? Try again man.
Hardy is cancelled by mighty. Are you saying you have no points in mighty?
Come on. You know better than this.
100 pts into hardy cancels out 100 pts into Mighty. So no one should hit your shields a high amount especially since it can't crit
Bone Pirate monster set can grant you 30% addtional dmg mitigation with shields up lowering burst dmg against your shields. Yes it has a proc but shields are so effective it can proc easily it can proc on dots and if you Mine Camp it will be extremely easy to proc and survive.
Then You can stack Harness Magicka with Hardened ward against mag builds can restore free magicka from them.
I'm talking about stamina fights here, harness won't do anything other than fall instantly to proc damage. How big do you think harness is in Cyrodiil?
So... Really? Your solution is to force us all to wear pirate skeleton and put 100 points into hardy? Thus critable shields are balanced?
I'm really glad you're not in charge of balancing.
You don't understand, Putting 100pts into hardy Will lower burst dmg no Stam build should be breaking your wards quickly since it balances the dmg out and it won't ever crit. 12K wards stacked with 9-10k Harness + Hardened wards shouldn't break before the timer ends (6 secs) since CP Hardy Cancels out the The CP mighty.
If you really have trouble you can add additional dmg mitigation with the Monster set although its not needed.
Harness magicka should be only 2K pts less than Hardend ward.
Man 12k wards? If you get that then how are you going to run 100 points into Hardy when you already put 100 points into bastion lol. With 41k mag and no points into bastion harness is around 6.7k in strength. To get 12k harness you would need to run almost 55k magicka and put 100 points into bastion lol. Dampen is bigger and it's what most magblades run, but as a sorc it's a much better option to run harness because you already have a big class shield. I do agree that stacked shields is a stupid mechanic and I want them to not be able to be stacked anymore. I would love it if shields weren't stackable and then to compensate they un nerfed streak, and added the purge back to cloak. But then people will complain that they can't catch a magsorc or a magblade. There's no winning
Yeah, the 12K Hardened ward would require a 9K pvp tool tip then multiply that by .3 and yoy will get about 12K, as for Harness you can get just about 10K pvp tool tip ( 9k ish) both stacked together can grant you about 19- 20K shield not including Healing ward.
I agree remove shield stacking and the streak penalty
[Edit]
You can put 100pts into bastion and 100pts into Hardy now with the CP cap at 600.
But otherwise you can put enough points to get 20% increased effectiveness.
This is what I get for arguing with potatoes.https://youtu.be/M1y5hFXPaww
Mighty cancels out hardy.
Critable shields is a bad idea because of how they work. No armor resists. No impen. Not big enough to handle a crit.
Stamina anything is still amazingly strong, nightblades are just the easiest example of very high damage. DK's still have heavy armor, block, and incredible damage.
Sorc doesn't need a nerf.
If you're calling me a "potato" then from here on out I will discredit anything you say to me since you're biased and used Ad Hominem.
If you read my long post I guess you just cherry picked the points you could argue.
The point of my posts was to debunk the notion that mSorcs are 'weak' and that they deserve this buff to them which they didn't they preformed just fine before the patch. All players lile you wanted was an easy way to kill your opposition since you guys in particular have problems against even with all the tools at your disposal to counter them.(NBs, DKs). Next patch I expect DKs (stam DKs in particular) to be improved like mSorcs have this patch.
In your above post nothing that you said is anything new and its all anecdotal and opinionated. mSorcs also have "amazing" dmg and survivability from the safety of range what's your point? Do you even evaluate all the points you said? Do you believe that heavy armor is this super OP best thing ever?
There was not one sentence or statement any anything I wrote that suggested Magicka Sorcerers needed a nerf but when you attempt to discuss with your preconceived notion of what a "potato" is (which would be you). Jump to conclusions with no fact or logic and start throwing insults.
But looking at your past post history you aren't professional at all you, expose your bias against other players and when your opinion is challenged you start insulting other players and act like a child grow up.
Making shields critable is a nerf. I quit reading after you denied it.
Kthxbye3 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »sorcs just need shield to be critable and 20 seconds long again then boom class is fine, nightblades are fine, templars are fine, dk's however need to be nerfed into the ground, stomped on, lit on fire, and left to burn in a ditch far away from me
What's the point of having a 20 second crittable shield? Most of they time, they don't last 6 seconds while being non crittable, if they are to be crittable, they'll be gone in less than 1 light attack + skill, so there's absolutely 0 point in buffering their duration lolkyle.wilson wrote: »A lot of players that have been running stam meta builds the last year, returned to the mag builds that they use to main before the massive stam buffs that went on for a year. Every patch was a stam buff before this one.
2 patches. DB and SotH. One Tamriel wasn't stamina or magicka, it was Eye of the Viper.
People want the duration so they can stack hardend ward and anulment, effectively giving sorcs 50k health again and 1 shield to refresh in the 20 second duration unless they get bursted thru both. Put Bastion in the Blue CP tree like the healing one is and you might get it.
Alright, I'll key in all the potatoes that think critable shields would be awesome...
Shields have no armor or mitigation, critting one would be a full hit for 22-25K on an onslaught out of stealth.
Shields max out at 12K or so, so the player takes the spill damage. All 15K or so of it, because light armor has no mitigation either after taking into account a sharpened weapon.
Add in a damage proc or two, and the sorc is dead. One shot. What good is a 20 second shield that offers no protection?
I'm sure that's fun for you, but not for them. Shields are fine.
Shields also benefit from dmg mitigation abilities like CP and Bone Pirate monster set which grants major protection 30% dmg reduction with a shield up.
It's possible to put 100 pts into hardy to gain 25% dmg mitigation from stam builds to your shields and use Harness + Hardened to gain free magicka againt mag builds while using Bone Pirate monster set for massive mitigation, its pretty effective.
You forgot those
So... I have a 10% chance not to get one shot with pirate skeleton? You know that has to proc right? Try again man.
Hardy is cancelled by mighty. Are you saying you have no points in mighty?
Come on. You know better than this.
100 pts into hardy cancels out 100 pts into Mighty. So no one should hit your shields a high amount especially since it can't crit
Bone Pirate monster set can grant you 30% addtional dmg mitigation with shields up lowering burst dmg against your shields. Yes it has a proc but shields are so effective it can proc easily it can proc on dots and if you Mine Camp it will be extremely easy to proc and survive.
Then You can stack Harness Magicka with Hardened ward against mag builds can restore free magicka from them.
I'm talking about stamina fights here, harness won't do anything other than fall instantly to proc damage. How big do you think harness is in Cyrodiil?
So... Really? Your solution is to force us all to wear pirate skeleton and put 100 points into hardy? Thus critable shields are balanced?
I'm really glad you're not in charge of balancing.
You don't understand, Putting 100pts into hardy Will lower burst dmg no Stam build should be breaking your wards quickly since it balances the dmg out and it won't ever crit. 12K wards stacked with 9-10k Harness + Hardened wards shouldn't break before the timer ends (6 secs) since CP Hardy Cancels out the The CP mighty.
If you really have trouble you can add additional dmg mitigation with the Monster set although its not needed.
Harness magicka should be only 2K pts less than Hardend ward.
Man 12k wards? If you get that then how are you going to run 100 points into Hardy when you already put 100 points into bastion lol. With 41k mag and no points into bastion harness is around 6.7k in strength. To get 12k harness you would need to run almost 55k magicka and put 100 points into bastion lol. Dampen is bigger and it's what most magblades run, but as a sorc it's a much better option to run harness because you already have a big class shield. I do agree that stacked shields is a stupid mechanic and I want them to not be able to be stacked anymore. I would love it if shields weren't stackable and then to compensate they un nerfed streak, and added the purge back to cloak. But then people will complain that they can't catch a magsorc or a magblade. There's no winning
Yeah, the 12K Hardened ward would require a 9K pvp tool tip then multiply that by .3 and yoy will get about 12K, as for Harness you can get just about 10K pvp tool tip ( 9k ish) both stacked together can grant you about 19- 20K shield not including Healing ward.
I agree remove shield stacking and the streak penalty
[Edit]
You can put 100pts into bastion and 100pts into Hardy now with the CP cap at 600.
But otherwise you can put enough points to get 20% increased effectiveness.
This is what I get for arguing with potatoes.https://youtu.be/M1y5hFXPaww
Mighty cancels out hardy.
Critable shields is a bad idea because of how they work. No armor resists. No impen. Not big enough to handle a crit.
Stamina anything is still amazingly strong, nightblades are just the easiest example of very high damage. DK's still have heavy armor, block, and incredible damage.
Sorc doesn't need a nerf.
If you're calling me a "potato" then from here on out I will discredit anything you say to me since you're biased and used Ad Hominem.
If you read my long post I guess you just cherry picked the points you could argue.
The point of my posts was to debunk the notion that mSorcs are 'weak' and that they deserve this buff to them which they didn't they preformed just fine before the patch. All players lile you wanted was an easy way to kill your opposition since you guys in particular have problems against even with all the tools at your disposal to counter them.(NBs, DKs). Next patch I expect DKs (stam DKs in particular) to be improved like mSorcs have this patch.
In your above post nothing that you said is anything new and its all anecdotal and opinionated. mSorcs also have "amazing" dmg and survivability from the safety of range what's your point? Do you even evaluate all the points you said? Do you believe that heavy armor is this super OP best thing ever?
There was not one sentence or statement any anything I wrote that suggested Magicka Sorcerers needed a nerf but when you attempt to discuss with your preconceived notion of what a "potato" is (which would be you). Jump to conclusions with no fact or logic and start throwing insults.
But looking at your past post history you aren't professional at all you, expose your bias against other players and when your opinion is challenged you start insulting other players and act like a child grow up.
Making shields critable is a nerf. I quit reading after you denied it.
Kthxbye
When did I say make shields critable?
If you can find the quote show me.
Making up Flase claims to argue a point that you cannot win, keep trolling.Edited by Anti_Virus on 24 February 2017 04:49Power Wealth And Influence.0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Malamar1229 wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Zos gave the Ranged class of the game a great kite mechanic daedric mines for 1v1 if you are in a group then people will attack the melee builds and not you.
That's the sign of defeat when you start throwing around memes and insults instead of logic.
You guys as the ranged class have Kite machanics.
Daedirc mines, Streak And Trees/Rocks to LOS around.
Zos made most of your ranged dmg skill unreflectable and some unblockable why should your dmg equal melee now? Does that make sense?
What kind of skooma you been drinking kid? How the hell is sitting in mines a kite mechanic?
Secondly, the only class a mag sorc can truely kite isMAYBE a magicka templar which is pretty trollololol while they sit in their house of holy hell heals.
The ridiculous gap closers and speed on stamina classes is pretty much the hard counter to streak, which is absolutely expensive to spam freely like we used to...and a sorc that has sustain to spam streak a dozen times is likely hitting like a wet noodle.
I laugh when everyone calls us a kite class meanwhile stamina sorcs can run and turn in a quest and then catch up to us.
You guys crying about sorcs are either basing your opinions on the Cheat Engine sorcs or the ones running 3 shields on 1 button macro keyboard, or you just plain suck, no offense.
Lastly this game is not balanced on 1v1, nor should it be. It was sold as AvAvA and should be balanced as so.
You want to talk about stupid? How about when I get feared and can't break out of it with a full stamina bar? How about every time I mouse over these rock hugging stam-tards they convienently roll dodge rendering my proc frags worthless (btw they have addons that tell them when to dodge, when a frag proc player has them targeted)?
Seriously bro, you got a case of misplaced sorc hate.
1. Daedric mines roots and deals decent dmg allows you kite when melee targets get near they are forced to roll dodge to move.
2. You contradicted yourself by saying you can Kite Templars. Sorcs can kite 2 ways Mine camp or teleporting and LOS
3. Gap closer snare is a major problem and should go I agree
4. No one is bashing sorcs here the point of this thread is that mSorcs were unesssarly overtuned it's you guys that come in here an bash others opinions I never said they should be nerfed though
5. Thats odd most of you want to balance the game around "1vXing" claiming zerging is "mindless" and is for scrubs. Most people advocate for buffs to help them 'open world pvp'
6. Last paragraph is anecdotal, I could say " how about when im rooted and out of stam because I have to roll dodge alot?" "How about that destruction staff ultimate that I cannnot counter EOtS?" But I won't
7. I don't hate any class or the players, I despise bias players like you for any class. Ad hominem won't work on me dude trust.
Edited by Anti_Virus on 24 February 2017 08:04Power Wealth And Influence.0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »sorcs just need shield to be critable and 20 seconds long again then boom class is fine, nightblades are fine, templars are fine, dk's however need to be nerfed into the ground, stomped on, lit on fire, and left to burn in a ditch far away from me
What's the point of having a 20 second crittable shield? Most of they time, they don't last 6 seconds while being non crittable, if they are to be crittable, they'll be gone in less than 1 light attack + skill, so there's absolutely 0 point in buffering their duration lolkyle.wilson wrote: »A lot of players that have been running stam meta builds the last year, returned to the mag builds that they use to main before the massive stam buffs that went on for a year. Every patch was a stam buff before this one.
2 patches. DB and SotH. One Tamriel wasn't stamina or magicka, it was Eye of the Viper.
People want the duration so they can stack hardend ward and anulment, effectively giving sorcs 50k health again and 1 shield to refresh in the 20 second duration unless they get bursted thru both. Put Bastion in the Blue CP tree like the healing one is and you might get it.
Alright, I'll key in all the potatoes that think critable shields would be awesome...
Shields have no armor or mitigation, critting one would be a full hit for 22-25K on an onslaught out of stealth.
Shields max out at 12K or so, so the player takes the spill damage. All 15K or so of it, because light armor has no mitigation either after taking into account a sharpened weapon.
Add in a damage proc or two, and the sorc is dead. One shot. What good is a 20 second shield that offers no protection?
I'm sure that's fun for you, but not for them. Shields are fine.
Shields also benefit from dmg mitigation abilities like CP and Bone Pirate monster set which grants major protection 30% dmg reduction with a shield up.
It's possible to put 100 pts into hardy to gain 25% dmg mitigation from stam builds to your shields and use Harness + Hardened to gain free magicka againt mag builds while using Bone Pirate monster set for massive mitigation, its pretty effective.
You forgot those
So... I have a 10% chance not to get one shot with pirate skeleton? You know that has to proc right? Try again man.
Hardy is cancelled by mighty. Are you saying you have no points in mighty?
Come on. You know better than this.
100 pts into hardy cancels out 100 pts into Mighty. So no one should hit your shields a high amount especially since it can't crit
Bone Pirate monster set can grant you 30% addtional dmg mitigation with shields up lowering burst dmg against your shields. Yes it has a proc but shields are so effective it can proc easily it can proc on dots and if you Mine Camp it will be extremely easy to proc and survive.
Then You can stack Harness Magicka with Hardened ward against mag builds can restore free magicka from them.
I'm talking about stamina fights here, harness won't do anything other than fall instantly to proc damage. How big do you think harness is in Cyrodiil?
So... Really? Your solution is to force us all to wear pirate skeleton and put 100 points into hardy? Thus critable shields are balanced?
I'm really glad you're not in charge of balancing.
You don't understand, Putting 100pts into hardy Will lower burst dmg no Stam build should be breaking your wards quickly since it balances the dmg out and it won't ever crit. 12K wards stacked with 9-10k Harness + Hardened wards shouldn't break before the timer ends (6 secs) since CP Hardy Cancels out the The CP mighty.
If you really have trouble you can add additional dmg mitigation with the Monster set although its not needed.
Harness magicka should be only 2K pts less than Hardend ward.
Man 12k wards? If you get that then how are you going to run 100 points into Hardy when you already put 100 points into bastion lol. With 41k mag and no points into bastion harness is around 6.7k in strength. To get 12k harness you would need to run almost 55k magicka and put 100 points into bastion lol. Dampen is bigger and it's what most magblades run, but as a sorc it's a much better option to run harness because you already have a big class shield. I do agree that stacked shields is a stupid mechanic and I want them to not be able to be stacked anymore. I would love it if shields weren't stackable and then to compensate they un nerfed streak, and added the purge back to cloak. But then people will complain that they can't catch a magsorc or a magblade. There's no winning
Yeah, the 12K Hardened ward would require a 9K pvp tool tip then multiply that by .3 and yoy will get about 12K, as for Harness you can get just about 10K pvp tool tip ( 9k ish) both stacked together can grant you about 19- 20K shield not including Healing ward.
I agree remove shield stacking and the streak penalty
[Edit]
You can put 100pts into bastion and 100pts into Hardy now with the CP cap at 600.
But otherwise you can put enough points to get 20% increased effectiveness.
This is what I get for arguing with potatoes.https://youtu.be/M1y5hFXPaww
Mighty cancels out hardy.
Critable shields is a bad idea because of how they work. No armor resists. No impen. Not big enough to handle a crit.
Stamina anything is still amazingly strong, nightblades are just the easiest example of very high damage. DK's still have heavy armor, block, and incredible damage.
Sorc doesn't need a nerf.
If you're calling me a "potato" then from here on out I will discredit anything you say to me since you're biased and used Ad Hominem.
If you read my long post I guess you just cherry picked the points you could argue.
The point of my posts was to debunk the notion that mSorcs are 'weak' and that they deserve this buff to them which they didn't they preformed just fine before the patch. All players lile you wanted was an easy way to kill your opposition since you guys in particular have problems against even with all the tools at your disposal to counter them.(NBs, DKs). Next patch I expect DKs (stam DKs in particular) to be improved like mSorcs have this patch.
In your above post nothing that you said is anything new and its all anecdotal and opinionated. mSorcs also have "amazing" dmg and survivability from the safety of range what's your point? Do you even evaluate all the points you said? Do you believe that heavy armor is this super OP best thing ever?
There was not one sentence or statement any anything I wrote that suggested Magicka Sorcerers needed a nerf but when you attempt to discuss with your preconceived notion of what a "potato" is (which would be you). Jump to conclusions with no fact or logic and start throwing insults.
But looking at your past post history you aren't professional at all you, expose your bias against other players and when your opinion is challenged you start insulting other players and act like a child grow up.
Making shields critable is a nerf. I quit reading after you denied it.
Kthxbye
When did I say make shields critable?
If you can find the quote show me.
Making up Flase claims to argue a point that you cannot win, keep trolling.
You just said remove shield stacking. That's a sorc nerf. We've been arguing the last two pages about making shields critable. Whatever. I'm so done arguing with a liar.Edited by Minalan on 24 February 2017 08:540 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »You don't understand
@Anti_Virus
You're the one who doesn't understand. If you think its impossible to eat thru a shield stack as a stamina character then you aren't playing a stamina character right and you've never seen one played right. A lot of the arguments you make, regarding how sorcs should be based around kiting and should't be able to face tank like a dk sound like the typical rhetoric thrown around by people who have no experience whatsoever on sorc. Kiting w/o shield stacking is not very effective when gap closers allow anyone to stay within melee range. A sorc can't face tank like a dk when being faced by multiple competent opponents, because shields simply don't scale with multiple sources of aggro like healing and blocking do. Daedric mines are a great skill against scrubs, who freak out and have no idea how to play against him. But once you figure out the strategy on how to counter them they are quite literally a cake-walk and can be danced around and through.
I play multiple classes and sorcs feel plenty balanced right now. If you don't play a sorc, I can see why you might think some of the things you do. But making such strong arguments without perspective is foolish. If you DO play sorc and are on PC NA, I would love to duel you on my DK or Templar so I can demonstrate some of the points I'm making.
2 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I haven`t found a single top EU mSorc who wouldnt agree that mSorc was more close to being balanced last patch before buffs. After reading this disussion, I feel there´s three kinds of mSorcs:
Those who know, but stay quiet.
Those who know, but downplay.
Those who simply don`t know, because they are not on the level evaluate correctly.
It`s pretty easy to tell in this thread who is who. Sadly the last group seems to be the loudest.
There were two changes that effected Sorcs I disagreed with and stated those disagreements on the PTS forums:
1. Making Force Shock unreflectable and removing counter play.
2. Giving Fire staff 8% more damage
I adovatef that both of these changes were unnecessary, and instead of trying to make Staffs equal to dual swords they should have simply allowed Staffs to count as two set pieces and added a 3% spell damage buff to staff passives that would have made things more reasonable.
The 8% buff applies to everyone Sorcs main delayed DPS skills are all single target so they happen to benefit, but my Mag DK heavy attacks and Molten Whips hit stupid hard in pvp with a fire staff so it's not all on Sorcs completely, Assasins Will Mage Bladed also got a significant buff from the fire staff as well.
If #1 and #2 were not a thing(these were general magic buffs not Sorc buffs) no one would be having this conversation
ZOS keeps removing counterplay, putting in stupid OP poisons and pushed the game in the direction of zergs. They are catering to the lowest common denominator of people. This is not good for the game.
PVP is just broken, it's more broken then it ever was in 2014 or 2015. They are using heavy handed nerds to kill what's left of the solo to 3man pvp groups in favor of zergs...look around any campaign you will find very few solo or small groups anymore, every 1v1 or 1v2 in pvp becomes a 1v12+ within 5 seconds...this was ok in 2014 because skilled counterplay and dynamic Ultimate meant you could outplay these people and kill them, not now.
The staff buffs were too much for all magic builds, but pvp is just broken trash right now...i have been entering pvp less and less because of it...it's just bad all around with too many counter plays removed making too much damage unavoidable which continues to rip smart gameplay from the equation
Just wait till Morrowind they will gut what little is left for solo and small players
Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Mojomonkeyman wrote: »I haven`t found a single top EU mSorc who wouldnt agree that mSorc was more close to being balanced last patch before buffs. After reading this disussion, I feel there´s three kinds of mSorcs:
Those who know, but stay quiet.
Those who know, but downplay.
Those who simply don`t know, because they are not on the level evaluate correctly.
It`s pretty easy to tell in this thread who is who. Sadly the last group seems to be the loudest.
There were two changes that effected Sorcs I disagreed with and stated those disagreements on the PTS forums:
1. Making Force Shock unreflectable and removing counter play.
2. Giving Fire staff 8% more damage
I adovatef that both of these changes were unnecessary, and instead of trying to make Staffs equal to dual swords they should have simply allowed Staffs to count as two set pieces and added a 3% spell damage buff to staff passives that would have made things more reasonable.
The 8% buff applies to everyone Sorcs main delayed DPS skills are all single target so they happen to benefit, but my Mag DK heavy attacks and Molten Whips hit stupid hard in pvp with a fire staff so it's not all on Sorcs completely, Assasins Will Mage Bladed also got a significant buff from the fire staff as well.
If #1 and #2 were not a thing(these were general magic buffs not Sorc buffs) no one would be having this conversation
ZOS keeps removing counterplay, putting in stupid OP poisons and pushed the game in the direction of zergs. They are catering to the lowest common denominator of people. This is not good for the game.
PVP is just broken, it's more broken then it ever was in 2014 or 2015. They are using heavy handed nerds to kill what's left of the solo to 3man pvp groups in favor of zergs...look around any campaign you will find very few solo or small groups anymore, every 1v1 or 1v2 in pvp becomes a 1v12+ within 5 seconds...this was ok in 2014 because skilled counterplay and dynamic Ultimate meant you could outplay these people and kill them, not now.
The staff buffs were too much for all magic builds, but pvp is just broken trash right now...i have been entering pvp less and less because of it...it's just bad all around with too many counter plays removed making too much damage unavoidable which continues to rip smart gameplay from the equation
Just wait till Morrowind they will gut what little is left for solo and small players
I completely would take the x2 piece over the 8%. But that's actually far more of a buff than 8% damage imo. Anyway, sure it's no longer countered by DKs with a single move, I just think the other 3 classes are completely unchanged by the unreflectable part. Also wouldn't the counter be block?
Anyway, this thread is like Hotel California...0 -
darthsithis✭✭✭Op I'm sorry the haunting curse morph is annoying, but pvp issues took my ilambris crits away. The real problem is that the game designers don't grasp that pvp and pve should not be balanced in the same way. We weave, so get buffed to make pvp 'more fair' but now vma is a joke I hit like a truck. Curse can't be reflected, but neither can shock. That sucks and has no impact on pve except the other balancing made ilambris suck. No one abused ilambris in pvp lol, and viper should hit hard in pve too. Weirdly enough we got buffed that ilambris was not as good before the patch as no monster set and good weaving is mire powerful than the former best proc set.
So pve stam suffers, pvp is just different, pve mag sorcs are pretty great even though people complain about shields still...but I believe haunting curse is a dps loss in pve. So again, they said 'sorcs need to be able to hit Dk's so let's buff curse, and make their spam unblockable. Then nerf everyone's proc sets...boost fire staff damage and make ele drain give infinite resources and pets will hit for 30k now but ultimates only can charge to 500 but it's ok you hit harder if you use an ultimate that is shock or fire damage. Voila balanced!'
Your viper/tremorscale combo used to destroy ppl and so did zergs dropping eye of the storm. But 8% fire staff damage just made my pulse destroy pve. Sorcs were always the most survivable and had great dps despite what ppl say. They are incredible now and I'll enjoy this patch. When they rebalance things indiscriminately by treating pvp and pve as the same, I'll be just as happy playing my favorite toon because in the end, this game CHANGES ALL THE TIME, and good players adapt equally as often.
Btw, Try casting harness magicka when the curse hits u initially, cast wings, then cast harness again after wings wear off. Easy way to time it.Message me if you want to do trials/dungeons, or need a trading guild! Flawless conqueror magsorc with a bad sense of armor fashion.0 -
Entegre✭✭✭Sorcerers are OP nightblades are OP dragonknights are OP templars are OP... I play 3 of them and they all have strenghts and weaknesses. Sorcs could apply curse every 3.5 seconds it just got easier with second auto apply.Edited by Entegre on 25 February 2017 17:300 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »sorcs just need shield to be critable and 20 seconds long again then boom class is fine, nightblades are fine, templars are fine, dk's however need to be nerfed into the ground, stomped on, lit on fire, and left to burn in a ditch far away from me
What's the point of having a 20 second crittable shield? Most of they time, they don't last 6 seconds while being non crittable, if they are to be crittable, they'll be gone in less than 1 light attack + skill, so there's absolutely 0 point in buffering their duration lolkyle.wilson wrote: »A lot of players that have been running stam meta builds the last year, returned to the mag builds that they use to main before the massive stam buffs that went on for a year. Every patch was a stam buff before this one.
2 patches. DB and SotH. One Tamriel wasn't stamina or magicka, it was Eye of the Viper.
People want the duration so they can stack hardend ward and anulment, effectively giving sorcs 50k health again and 1 shield to refresh in the 20 second duration unless they get bursted thru both. Put Bastion in the Blue CP tree like the healing one is and you might get it.
Alright, I'll key in all the potatoes that think critable shields would be awesome...
Shields have no armor or mitigation, critting one would be a full hit for 22-25K on an onslaught out of stealth.
Shields max out at 12K or so, so the player takes the spill damage. All 15K or so of it, because light armor has no mitigation either after taking into account a sharpened weapon.
Add in a damage proc or two, and the sorc is dead. One shot. What good is a 20 second shield that offers no protection?
I'm sure that's fun for you, but not for them. Shields are fine.
Shields also benefit from dmg mitigation abilities like CP and Bone Pirate monster set which grants major protection 30% dmg reduction with a shield up.
It's possible to put 100 pts into hardy to gain 25% dmg mitigation from stam builds to your shields and use Harness + Hardened to gain free magicka againt mag builds while using Bone Pirate monster set for massive mitigation, its pretty effective.
You forgot those
So... I have a 10% chance not to get one shot with pirate skeleton? You know that has to proc right? Try again man.
Hardy is cancelled by mighty. Are you saying you have no points in mighty?
Come on. You know better than this.
100 pts into hardy cancels out 100 pts into Mighty. So no one should hit your shields a high amount especially since it can't crit
Bone Pirate monster set can grant you 30% addtional dmg mitigation with shields up lowering burst dmg against your shields. Yes it has a proc but shields are so effective it can proc easily it can proc on dots and if you Mine Camp it will be extremely easy to proc and survive.
Then You can stack Harness Magicka with Hardened ward against mag builds can restore free magicka from them.
I'm talking about stamina fights here, harness won't do anything other than fall instantly to proc damage. How big do you think harness is in Cyrodiil?
So... Really? Your solution is to force us all to wear pirate skeleton and put 100 points into hardy? Thus critable shields are balanced?
I'm really glad you're not in charge of balancing.
You don't understand, Putting 100pts into hardy Will lower burst dmg no Stam build should be breaking your wards quickly since it balances the dmg out and it won't ever crit. 12K wards stacked with 9-10k Harness + Hardened wards shouldn't break before the timer ends (6 secs) since CP Hardy Cancels out the The CP mighty.
If you really have trouble you can add additional dmg mitigation with the Monster set although its not needed.
Harness magicka should be only 2K pts less than Hardend ward.
Man 12k wards? If you get that then how are you going to run 100 points into Hardy when you already put 100 points into bastion lol. With 41k mag and no points into bastion harness is around 6.7k in strength. To get 12k harness you would need to run almost 55k magicka and put 100 points into bastion lol. Dampen is bigger and it's what most magblades run, but as a sorc it's a much better option to run harness because you already have a big class shield. I do agree that stacked shields is a stupid mechanic and I want them to not be able to be stacked anymore. I would love it if shields weren't stackable and then to compensate they un nerfed streak, and added the purge back to cloak. But then people will complain that they can't catch a magsorc or a magblade. There's no winning
Yeah, the 12K Hardened ward would require a 9K pvp tool tip then multiply that by .3 and yoy will get about 12K, as for Harness you can get just about 10K pvp tool tip ( 9k ish) both stacked together can grant you about 19- 20K shield not including Healing ward.
I agree remove shield stacking and the streak penalty
[Edit]
You can put 100pts into bastion and 100pts into Hardy now with the CP cap at 600.
But otherwise you can put enough points to get 20% increased effectiveness.
This is what I get for arguing with potatoes.https://youtu.be/M1y5hFXPaww
Mighty cancels out hardy.
Critable shields is a bad idea because of how they work. No armor resists. No impen. Not big enough to handle a crit.
Stamina anything is still amazingly strong, nightblades are just the easiest example of very high damage. DK's still have heavy armor, block, and incredible damage.
Sorc doesn't need a nerf.
If you're calling me a "potato" then from here on out I will discredit anything you say to me since you're biased and used Ad Hominem.
If you read my long post I guess you just cherry picked the points you could argue.
The point of my posts was to debunk the notion that mSorcs are 'weak' and that they deserve this buff to them which they didn't they preformed just fine before the patch. All players lile you wanted was an easy way to kill your opposition since you guys in particular have problems against even with all the tools at your disposal to counter them.(NBs, DKs). Next patch I expect DKs (stam DKs in particular) to be improved like mSorcs have this patch.
In your above post nothing that you said is anything new and its all anecdotal and opinionated. mSorcs also have "amazing" dmg and survivability from the safety of range what's your point? Do you even evaluate all the points you said? Do you believe that heavy armor is this super OP best thing ever?
There was not one sentence or statement any anything I wrote that suggested Magicka Sorcerers needed a nerf but when you attempt to discuss with your preconceived notion of what a "potato" is (which would be you). Jump to conclusions with no fact or logic and start throwing insults.
But looking at your past post history you aren't professional at all you, expose your bias against other players and when your opinion is challenged you start insulting other players and act like a child grow up.
Making shields critable is a nerf. I quit reading after you denied it.
Kthxbye
When did I say make shields critable?
If you can find the quote show me.
Making up Flase claims to argue a point that you cannot win, keep trolling.
You just said remove shield stacking. That's a sorc nerf. We've been arguing the last two pages about making shields critable. Whatever. I'm so done arguing with a liar.
I never said make shields crittable, I said shield stacking should be removed and Streak should be un-nerfed to allow mobility. I never said make shields critable
Find where I said that.
Stop lying and stop trollingPower Wealth And Influence.0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »You don't understand
@Anti_Virus
You're the one who doesn't understand. If you think its impossible to eat thru a shield stack as a stamina character then you aren't playing a stamina character right and you've never seen one played right. A lot of the arguments you make, regarding how sorcs should be based around kiting and should't be able to face tank like a dk sound like the typical rhetoric thrown around by people who have no experience whatsoever on sorc. Kiting w/o shield stacking is not very effective when gap closers allow anyone to stay within melee range. A sorc can't face tank like a dk when being faced by multiple competent opponents, because shields simply don't scale with multiple sources of aggro like healing and blocking do. Daedric mines are a great skill against scrubs, who freak out and have no idea how to play against him. But once you figure out the strategy on how to counter them they are quite literally a cake-walk and can be danced around and through.
I play multiple classes and sorcs feel plenty balanced right now. If you don't play a sorc, I can see why you might think some of the things you do. But making such strong arguments without perspective is foolish. If you DO play sorc and are on PC NA, I would love to duel you on my DK or Templar so I can demonstrate some of the points I'm making.
1. Yeah this ideal is based of the the same actuation that all stamina builds run proc sets not all Im included and if you read my post to Minalan about CP placement againt Stam builds
2.yes mSorc is a ranged dps class you have Kite machanics A teleport and Mine field but you wear light armor and play from range you should kite and maintain distance and some form a ranged in a fight to be effective, the problem is most sorcs like NBs want to face tank like a Dk and have high dmg
3. I never said kite with out shield stacking making up words here to argue a false point. No one should be able to face tank and deal dmg when facing multiple opponents in an AvAvA game, bring allies along.
4. Not really, Block doesn't scale with multiple people since it drains stam and doesn't recover, You can Out dmg healing so no here, and roll dodge although it does scale with multiple people it cannot be abused since it has a stacking cost increase, addtionaly not all attacks can be dodged.
5. No, the Dmg of Mines is not the problem it's all about the root which is the key roots are krytonites for melee builds since they arw forced to roll and cannot move potentially 5 times, then you can teleport and reposition drop mines again and even the storm Atro, embrace this skill since it hasn't received any nerfs for how powerful it is.
Sorc is fine now Although these buffs were not nessiary next patch I expect some sDK buffs. The problem with mSorcs and sNBs is people try to play the class differently than it was designed.
NB => Glass cannon assassin fights gurellia warfare style and it not confrontational.
Survivability through:
- Dodge
- Stealth
- Ally Agro
Sorc=> Glass cannon mage fights from safety of range
Summons pets to aid in battle and is not confrontational
Survivability through:
-distance
- Shields
- Kiting
- ally agro
For both classes can't have your cake and eat it too if you want survivability you give up dmg and vice versa. I would definitely fight you but Im on PS4 NA.Edited by Anti_Virus on 25 February 2017 21:20Power Wealth And Influence.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Here's the thing about mines. Most players know exactly how to counter them.
If your opponent is a vamp, mist form is a hard counter.
If your opponent is smart and has no counter they'll choose when to step on a mine eliminating the mine's effectiveness
Mines is extremely expensive and once you know your opponent is able to counter it no longer is a playable skill
Gap closers when used effectively nullify mines
Kiting is extremely limited in duelsEdited by Waffennacht on 25 February 2017 21:530 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Here's the thing about mines. Most players know exactly how to counter them.
If your opponent is a vamp, mist form is a hard counter.
If your opponent is smart and has no counter they'll choose when to step on a mine eliminating the mine's effectiveness
Mines is extremely expensive and once you know your opponent is able to counter it no longer is a playable skill
Gap closers when used effectively nullify mines
Kiting is extremely limited in duels
You're arguing with a liar that wants nerfed shields easy mode sorc kills. Some people I know got too used to a year of easy mode stam play between Dark Brotherhood and Hist. Now they can't handle competitive Magicka classes.
Stop wasting your time. I did.
Edited by Minalan on 25 February 2017 23:240 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »Here's the thing about mines. Most players know exactly how to counter them.
If your opponent is a vamp, mist form is a hard counter.
If your opponent is smart and has no counter they'll choose when to step on a mine eliminating the mine's effectiveness
Mines is extremely expensive and once you know your opponent is able to counter it no longer is a playable skill
Gap closers when used effectively nullify mines
Kiting is extremely limited in duels
You're arguing with a liar that wants nerfed shields easy mode sorc kills. Some people I know got too used to a year of easy mode stam play between Dark Brotherhood and Hist. Now they can't handle competitive Magicka classes.
Stop wasting your time. I did.
Keep on accusing me of lying, the only thing left you can argue.
Nothing is going to happen to your precious sorc.
Edited by Anti_Virus on 25 February 2017 23:34Power Wealth And Influence.0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »Here's the thing about mines. Most players know exactly how to counter them.
If your opponent is a vamp, mist form is a hard counter.
If your opponent is smart and has no counter they'll choose when to step on a mine eliminating the mine's effectiveness
Mines is extremely expensive and once you know your opponent is able to counter it no longer is a playable skill
Gap closers when used effectively nullify mines
Kiting is extremely limited in duels
I agree Vamp counters mines but not everyone is a vamp and if you aren't fighting a vamp its a decent counter, But other wise vamp is effective
If you are forced to be rooted about 5 times its very advantageous for a Sorc allows you to gain distance and potentially reposition, Mines is not OP but its not a useless skill like some of you believe IMO. You could also drop an Atro with it down while mines are down, Thats why its expensive because of the utility it provides.
Lastly Gap closer snare is a major problem I agree it needs to be removed, I wouldn't be opposed to magicka dodgeroll or Reverting the Streak nerf but if that was that changed then
- Shields need their full duration
- Non stackable
- Non refreshable
- Full strength( ignoring battlespirit)
I would also sorcs to be more mobile than before but not making them OP.Edited by Anti_Virus on 25 February 2017 23:37Power Wealth And Influence.0 -
Nellzer✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »You don't understand
@Anti_Virus
You're the one who doesn't understand. If you think its impossible to eat thru a shield stack as a stamina character then you aren't playing a stamina character right and you've never seen one played right. A lot of the arguments you make, regarding how sorcs should be based around kiting and should't be able to face tank like a dk sound like the typical rhetoric thrown around by people who have no experience whatsoever on sorc. Kiting w/o shield stacking is not very effective when gap closers allow anyone to stay within melee range. A sorc can't face tank like a dk when being faced by multiple competent opponents, because shields simply don't scale with multiple sources of aggro like healing and blocking do. Daedric mines are a great skill against scrubs, who freak out and have no idea how to play against him. But once you figure out the strategy on how to counter them they are quite literally a cake-walk and can be danced around and through.
I play multiple classes and sorcs feel plenty balanced right now. If you don't play a sorc, I can see why you might think some of the things you do. But making such strong arguments without perspective is foolish. If you DO play sorc and are on PC NA, I would love to duel you on my DK or Templar so I can demonstrate some of the points I'm making.
1. Yeah this ideal is based of the the same actuation that all stamina builds run proc sets not all Im included and if you read my post to Minalan about CP placement againt Stam builds
2.yes mSorc is a ranged dps class you have Kite machanics A teleport and Mine field but you wear light armor and play from range you should kite and maintain distance and some form a ranged in a fight to be effective, the problem is most sorcs like NBs want to face tank like a Dk and have high dmg
3. I never said kite with out shield stacking making up words here to argue a false point. No one should be able to face tank and deal dmg when facing multiple opponents in an AvAvA game, bring allies along.
4. Not really, Block doesn't scale with multiple people since it drains stam and doesn't recover, You can Out dmg healing so no here, and roll dodge although it does scale with multiple people it cannot be abused since it has a stacking cost increase, addtionaly not all attacks can be dodged.
5. No, the Dmg of Mines is not the problem it's all about the root which is the key roots are krytonites for melee builds since they arw forced to roll and cannot move potentially 5 times, then you can teleport and reposition drop mines again and even the storm Atro, embrace this skill since it hasn't received any nerfs for how powerful it is.
Sorc is fine now Although these buffs were not nessiary next patch I expect some sDK buffs. The problem with mSorcs and sNBs is people try to play the class differently than it was designed.
NB => Glass cannon assassin fights gurellia warfare style and it not confrontational.
Survivability through:
- Dodge
- Stealth
- Ally Agro
Sorc=> Glass cannon mage fights from safety of range
Summons pets to aid in battle and is not confrontational
Survivability through:
-distance
- Shields
- Kiting
- ally agro
For both classes can't have your cake and eat it too if you want survivability you give up dmg and vice versa. I would definitely fight you but Im on PS4 NA.
Why the hell do you keep saying mines are a kite mechanic? I play a stam DK and mines are a joke, I can run around in them all day and the root is a moot point, you have anti-root mechanics if you have half a brain.
Streak is most definitely NOT a root mechanic. If gap closers like crit charge had a 15 second cooldown on them like in most other MMOs, sure it could be considered a kite tool (assuming it had multiple charges).
Saying mSorcs should be glass canons like NBs is just ignorant. A NB (stamblade) has infinitely more kiting/escapability than an mSorc. When I'm on a msorc on my DK he has LITERALLY 0% chance of getting away from me. I'm on him 100% from the start of the fight.
The 'mage' class in most games has never historically been a class canon. Yes they always wear light or cloth armor, but they've always had multiple defensive tools to either kite (impossible in ESO), shield, buff their armor with spells, or 100% immunity tools.
Your argument is just so blatantly wrong and BIASED (hurr hurr hypocrite) towards stam builds it's crazy. And I've NEVER played a magicka build.
2 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »You don't understand
@Anti_Virus
You're the one who doesn't understand. If you think its impossible to eat thru a shield stack as a stamina character then you aren't playing a stamina character right and you've never seen one played right. A lot of the arguments you make, regarding how sorcs should be based around kiting and should't be able to face tank like a dk sound like the typical rhetoric thrown around by people who have no experience whatsoever on sorc. Kiting w/o shield stacking is not very effective when gap closers allow anyone to stay within melee range. A sorc can't face tank like a dk when being faced by multiple competent opponents, because shields simply don't scale with multiple sources of aggro like healing and blocking do. Daedric mines are a great skill against scrubs, who freak out and have no idea how to play against him. But once you figure out the strategy on how to counter them they are quite literally a cake-walk and can be danced around and through.
I play multiple classes and sorcs feel plenty balanced right now. If you don't play a sorc, I can see why you might think some of the things you do. But making such strong arguments without perspective is foolish. If you DO play sorc and are on PC NA, I would love to duel you on my DK or Templar so I can demonstrate some of the points I'm making.
1. Yeah this ideal is based of the the same actuation that all stamina builds run proc sets not all Im included and if you read my post to Minalan about CP placement againt Stam builds
2.yes mSorc is a ranged dps class you have Kite machanics A teleport and Mine field but you wear light armor and play from range you should kite and maintain distance and some form a ranged in a fight to be effective, the problem is most sorcs like NBs want to face tank like a Dk and have high dmg
3. I never said kite with out shield stacking making up words here to argue a false point. No one should be able to face tank and deal dmg when facing multiple opponents in an AvAvA game, bring allies along.
4. Not really, Block doesn't scale with multiple people since it drains stam and doesn't recover, You can Out dmg healing so no here, and roll dodge although it does scale with multiple people it cannot be abused since it has a stacking cost increase, addtionaly not all attacks can be dodged.
5. No, the Dmg of Mines is not the problem it's all about the root which is the key roots are krytonites for melee builds since they arw forced to roll and cannot move potentially 5 times, then you can teleport and reposition drop mines again and even the storm Atro, embrace this skill since it hasn't received any nerfs for how powerful it is.
Sorc is fine now Although these buffs were not nessiary next patch I expect some sDK buffs. The problem with mSorcs and sNBs is people try to play the class differently than it was designed.
NB => Glass cannon assassin fights gurellia warfare style and it not confrontational.
Survivability through:
- Dodge
- Stealth
- Ally Agro
Sorc=> Glass cannon mage fights from safety of range
Summons pets to aid in battle and is not confrontational
Survivability through:
-distance
- Shields
- Kiting
- ally agro
For both classes can't have your cake and eat it too if you want survivability you give up dmg and vice versa. I would definitely fight you but Im on PS4 NA.
Why the hell do you keep saying mines are a kite mechanic? I play a stam DK and mines are a joke, I can run around in them all day and the root is a moot point, you have anti-root mechanics if you have half a brain.
Streak is most definitely NOT a root mechanic. If gap closers like crit charge had a 15 second cooldown on them like in most other MMOs, sure it could be considered a kite tool (assuming it had multiple charges).
Saying mSorcs should be glass canons like NBs is just ignorant. A NB (stamblade) has infinitely more kiting/escapability than an mSorc. When I'm on a msorc on my DK he has LITERALLY 0% chance of getting away from me. I'm on him 100% from the start of the fight.
The 'mage' class in most games has never historically been a class canon. Yes they always wear light or cloth armor, but they've always had multiple defensive tools to either kite (impossible in ESO), shield, buff their armor with spells, or 100% immunity tools.
Your argument is just so blatantly wrong and BIASED (hurr hurr hypocrite) towards stam builds it's crazy. And I've NEVER played a magicka build.
A wall full of Ad Hominem, wow you know you don't have to agree with my opinion right? But you also don't have to be rude about it,
I didn't say streak was a root machanic it was a kite machanic.
I'm not biased but beleive what ever you want too next time you repy to me i'll ignore you since you just insult.
Lol This thread is going to be locked soon.Edited by Anti_Virus on 25 February 2017 23:44Power Wealth And Influence.0 -
arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »sorcs just need shield to be critable and 20 seconds long again then boom class is fine, nightblades are fine, templars are fine, dk's however need to be nerfed into the ground, stomped on, lit on fire, and left to burn in a ditch far away from me
What's the point of having a 20 second crittable shield? Most of they time, they don't last 6 seconds while being non crittable, if they are to be crittable, they'll be gone in less than 1 light attack + skill, so there's absolutely 0 point in buffering their duration lolkyle.wilson wrote: »A lot of players that have been running stam meta builds the last year, returned to the mag builds that they use to main before the massive stam buffs that went on for a year. Every patch was a stam buff before this one.
2 patches. DB and SotH. One Tamriel wasn't stamina or magicka, it was Eye of the Viper.
People want the duration so they can stack hardend ward and anulment, effectively giving sorcs 50k health again and 1 shield to refresh in the 20 second duration unless they get bursted thru both. Put Bastion in the Blue CP tree like the healing one is and you might get it.
Alright, I'll key in all the potatoes that think critable shields would be awesome...
Shields have no armor or mitigation, critting one would be a full hit for 22-25K on an onslaught out of stealth.
Shields max out at 12K or so, so the player takes the spill damage. All 15K or so of it, because light armor has no mitigation either after taking into account a sharpened weapon.
Add in a damage proc or two, and the sorc is dead. One shot. What good is a 20 second shield that offers no protection?
I'm sure that's fun for you, but not for them. Shields are fine.
Shields also benefit from dmg mitigation abilities like CP and Bone Pirate monster set which grants major protection 30% dmg reduction with a shield up.
It's possible to put 100 pts into hardy to gain 25% dmg mitigation from stam builds to your shields and use Harness + Hardened to gain free magicka againt mag builds while using Bone Pirate monster set for massive mitigation, its pretty effective.
You forgot those
So... I have a 10% chance not to get one shot with pirate skeleton? You know that has to proc right? Try again man.
Hardy is cancelled by mighty. Are you saying you have no points in mighty?
Come on. You know better than this.
100 pts into hardy cancels out 100 pts into Mighty. So no one should hit your shields a high amount especially since it can't crit
Bone Pirate monster set can grant you 30% addtional dmg mitigation with shields up lowering burst dmg against your shields. Yes it has a proc but shields are so effective it can proc easily it can proc on dots and if you Mine Camp it will be extremely easy to proc and survive.
Then You can stack Harness Magicka with Hardened ward against mag builds can restore free magicka from them.
I'm talking about stamina fights here, harness won't do anything other than fall instantly to proc damage. How big do you think harness is in Cyrodiil?
So... Really? Your solution is to force us all to wear pirate skeleton and put 100 points into hardy? Thus critable shields are balanced?
I'm really glad you're not in charge of balancing.
You don't understand, Putting 100pts into hardy Will lower burst dmg no Stam build should be breaking your wards quickly since it balances the dmg out and it won't ever crit. 12K wards stacked with 9-10k Harness + Hardened wards shouldn't break before the timer ends (6 secs) since CP Hardy Cancels out the The CP mighty.
If you really have trouble you can add additional dmg mitigation with the Monster set although its not needed.
Harness magicka should be only 2K pts less than Hardend ward.
I'll explain the game mechanics since you're not feeling it here.
12K shields is with 100 points into bastion. If you rob that, your shields are closer to 9-10K. Critable.
Unless you put no points into defense against dots or elemental defender.
Like it or not, shields were made non-critable for a reason. They have zero armor. They have zero impen. Putting mitigation points into shields only partially counters 100 in mighty, that doesn't stop a 25K critical hit against a no-impen shield. I already HAVE hardy, impen, and light armor mitigation without the shield, and it still hits that hard. Do I need to go through the math with you?
I know you want to be alpha class again after being so powerful for so long in One Tamriel. The problem isn't the nightblade class, it's that many nightblade players aren't nearly as good as they thought they were now that other classes are competitive.
I'm not sure what you're running, but my Hardened is 12k and my Annulment is 10k, so 22k worth of shields in total. I'd gladly take crittable shields if the duration went back to 20 seconds.
ＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/170 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »sorcs just need shield to be critable and 20 seconds long again then boom class is fine, nightblades are fine, templars are fine, dk's however need to be nerfed into the ground, stomped on, lit on fire, and left to burn in a ditch far away from me
What's the point of having a 20 second crittable shield? Most of they time, they don't last 6 seconds while being non crittable, if they are to be crittable, they'll be gone in less than 1 light attack + skill, so there's absolutely 0 point in buffering their duration lolkyle.wilson wrote: »A lot of players that have been running stam meta builds the last year, returned to the mag builds that they use to main before the massive stam buffs that went on for a year. Every patch was a stam buff before this one.
2 patches. DB and SotH. One Tamriel wasn't stamina or magicka, it was Eye of the Viper.
People want the duration so they can stack hardend ward and anulment, effectively giving sorcs 50k health again and 1 shield to refresh in the 20 second duration unless they get bursted thru both. Put Bastion in the Blue CP tree like the healing one is and you might get it.
Alright, I'll key in all the potatoes that think critable shields would be awesome...
Shields have no armor or mitigation, critting one would be a full hit for 22-25K on an onslaught out of stealth.
Shields max out at 12K or so, so the player takes the spill damage. All 15K or so of it, because light armor has no mitigation either after taking into account a sharpened weapon.
Add in a damage proc or two, and the sorc is dead. One shot. What good is a 20 second shield that offers no protection?
I'm sure that's fun for you, but not for them. Shields are fine.
Shields also benefit from dmg mitigation abilities like CP and Bone Pirate monster set which grants major protection 30% dmg reduction with a shield up.
It's possible to put 100 pts into hardy to gain 25% dmg mitigation from stam builds to your shields and use Harness + Hardened to gain free magicka againt mag builds while using Bone Pirate monster set for massive mitigation, its pretty effective.
You forgot those
So... I have a 10% chance not to get one shot with pirate skeleton? You know that has to proc right? Try again man.
Hardy is cancelled by mighty. Are you saying you have no points in mighty?
Come on. You know better than this.
100 pts into hardy cancels out 100 pts into Mighty. So no one should hit your shields a high amount especially since it can't crit
Bone Pirate monster set can grant you 30% addtional dmg mitigation with shields up lowering burst dmg against your shields. Yes it has a proc but shields are so effective it can proc easily it can proc on dots and if you Mine Camp it will be extremely easy to proc and survive.
Then You can stack Harness Magicka with Hardened ward against mag builds can restore free magicka from them.
I'm talking about stamina fights here, harness won't do anything other than fall instantly to proc damage. How big do you think harness is in Cyrodiil?
So... Really? Your solution is to force us all to wear pirate skeleton and put 100 points into hardy? Thus critable shields are balanced?
I'm really glad you're not in charge of balancing.
You don't understand, Putting 100pts into hardy Will lower burst dmg no Stam build should be breaking your wards quickly since it balances the dmg out and it won't ever crit. 12K wards stacked with 9-10k Harness + Hardened wards shouldn't break before the timer ends (6 secs) since CP Hardy Cancels out the The CP mighty.
If you really have trouble you can add additional dmg mitigation with the Monster set although its not needed.
Harness magicka should be only 2K pts less than Hardend ward.
I'll explain the game mechanics since you're not feeling it here.
12K shields is with 100 points into bastion. If you rob that, your shields are closer to 9-10K. Critable.
Unless you put no points into defense against dots or elemental defender.
Like it or not, shields were made non-critable for a reason. They have zero armor. They have zero impen. Putting mitigation points into shields only partially counters 100 in mighty, that doesn't stop a 25K critical hit against a no-impen shield. I already HAVE hardy, impen, and light armor mitigation without the shield, and it still hits that hard. Do I need to go through the math with you?
I know you want to be alpha class again after being so powerful for so long in One Tamriel. The problem isn't the nightblade class, it's that many nightblade players aren't nearly as good as they thought they were now that other classes are competitive.
I'm not sure what you're running, but my Hardened is 12k and my Annulment is 10k, so 22k worth of shields in total. I'd gladly take crittable shields if the duration went back to 20 seconds.
Nah shields don't need to be critable, Since dodge and block aren't, but its isn't weak like he says it is. I was giving him ideas on how to make it more effective.Power Wealth And Influence.0 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »You don't understand
@Anti_Virus
You're the one who doesn't understand. If you think its impossible to eat thru a shield stack as a stamina character then you aren't playing a stamina character right and you've never seen one played right. A lot of the arguments you make, regarding how sorcs should be based around kiting and should't be able to face tank like a dk sound like the typical rhetoric thrown around by people who have no experience whatsoever on sorc. Kiting w/o shield stacking is not very effective when gap closers allow anyone to stay within melee range. A sorc can't face tank like a dk when being faced by multiple competent opponents, because shields simply don't scale with multiple sources of aggro like healing and blocking do. Daedric mines are a great skill against scrubs, who freak out and have no idea how to play against him. But once you figure out the strategy on how to counter them they are quite literally a cake-walk and can be danced around and through.
I play multiple classes and sorcs feel plenty balanced right now. If you don't play a sorc, I can see why you might think some of the things you do. But making such strong arguments without perspective is foolish. If you DO play sorc and are on PC NA, I would love to duel you on my DK or Templar so I can demonstrate some of the points I'm making.
1. Yeah this ideal is based of the the same actuation that all stamina builds run proc sets not all Im included and if you read my post to Minalan about CP placement againt Stam builds
2.yes mSorc is a ranged dps class you have Kite machanics A teleport and Mine field but you wear light armor and play from range you should kite and maintain distance and some form a ranged in a fight to be effective, the problem is most sorcs like NBs want to face tank like a Dk and have high dmg
3. I never said kite with out shield stacking making up words here to argue a false point. No one should be able to face tank and deal dmg when facing multiple opponents in an AvAvA game, bring allies along.
4. Not really, Block doesn't scale with multiple people since it drains stam and doesn't recover, You can Out dmg healing so no here, and roll dodge although it does scale with multiple people it cannot be abused since it has a stacking cost increase, addtionaly not all attacks can be dodged.
5. No, the Dmg of Mines is not the problem it's all about the root which is the key roots are krytonites for melee builds since they arw forced to roll and cannot move potentially 5 times, then you can teleport and reposition drop mines again and even the storm Atro, embrace this skill since it hasn't received any nerfs for how powerful it is.
Sorc is fine now Although these buffs were not nessiary next patch I expect some sDK buffs. The problem with mSorcs and sNBs is people try to play the class differently than it was designed.
NB => Glass cannon assassin fights gurellia warfare style and it not confrontational.
Survivability through:
- Dodge
- Stealth
- Ally Agro
Sorc=> Glass cannon mage fights from safety of range
Summons pets to aid in battle and is not confrontational
Survivability through:
-distance
- Shields
- Kiting
- ally agro
For both classes can't have your cake and eat it too if you want survivability you give up dmg and vice versa. I would definitely fight you but Im on PS4 NA.
Why the hell do you keep saying mines are a kite mechanic? I play a stam DK and mines are a joke, I can run around in them all day and the root is a moot point, you have anti-root mechanics if you have half a brain.
Streak is most definitely NOT a root mechanic. If gap closers like crit charge had a 15 second cooldown on them like in most other MMOs, sure it could be considered a kite tool (assuming it had multiple charges).
Saying mSorcs should be glass canons like NBs is just ignorant. A NB (stamblade) has infinitely more kiting/escapability than an mSorc. When I'm on a msorc on my DK he has LITERALLY 0% chance of getting away from me. I'm on him 100% from the start of the fight.
The 'mage' class in most games has never historically been a class canon. Yes they always wear light or cloth armor, but they've always had multiple defensive tools to either kite (impossible in ESO), shield, buff their armor with spells, or 100% immunity tools.
Your argument is just so blatantly wrong and BIASED (hurr hurr hypocrite) towards stam builds it's crazy. And I've NEVER played a magicka build.
I think people underestimate the power of mines of you are fighting only one person they are very strong at relieving pressure almost op. Bad players will just go stomping through your mines. If a player hours one mine yes it tickles but if they hit 2 or even 3 in a short period that's decent damage to add to your combo. Good players will play around the mines to be sure that they don't get one-shotted by the sorc combo. But then choosing when to attack relieves pressure on you because they aren't constantly in you face. That allows you to free cast you spells while kiting around your mines. Mines are almost useless when fighting alot of people though though some times you can cast it in choke points to relieve pressure but I put them on my overload bar now and put mist form on my back bar. That's working much better.
Streak is strong though compared to other skills sure gap closer spam will counter it but gap closer spam counters everything in the game. It even counters nightblades shade if you drop a shade and people gap close you while you teleport they teleport with you no matter where you teleport to. What makes streak stronger than shade in most situations though is it can be spammed meaning you can use it multiple times. And while gap closers are annoying to streak they completely shut down mist form.
I do think kiting is possible in ESO as long as you aren't seriously outnumbered if it's you vs two or three people you can kite, anymore than that and yes I agree it's almost impossible. I don't think I've ever met a player who could stay on top of me the whole fight. If a player crit rushes you when curse is about to blow up and you have a frag proc they are as good as dead. It's pretty much the same as magblade the other kiting mage class. You can bait then into gap closing so you can burst them. It's actually better if you see a sorcs hands glowing to not stay on top of them to give you a reaction time to block the frag. Sorcs have alot of tools that's great 1v1 but they scale poorly when fighting multiple people. That's pretty much all mag classes though1 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Anti_Virus
Ya man this is what I'm talking about. You have a lot to learn before your commentary on balance should be taken seriously. I can use the point on mines as an example. Literally a non issue on a medium armor build, if you know what you're doing. Casting shuffle gives .5 seconds of immunity to roots and immobilizations per piece of armor equipped. As such, literally all you have to do is cast vigor and then shuffle and you can literally skate thru the mines and lay down burst on the sorc unhindered. The same strategy works in heavy but you have less up time on the immunity, but in heavy you are also significantly harder for the sorc to kill which is where the balance is.
All your commentary is clearly coming from a place of narrow perspective, so while you are entitled to your opinions, I personally am gonna go ahead and dismiss em. Also, stop trying to force rigid roles and play styles on to classes. Clearly that's against the ESO design philosophy.
PS: Stam DK is an extremely good class...when you talk as if the class is gimped it makes me take you even less seriously.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »You don't understand
@Anti_Virus
You're the one who doesn't understand. If you think its impossible to eat thru a shield stack as a stamina character then you aren't playing a stamina character right and you've never seen one played right. A lot of the arguments you make, regarding how sorcs should be based around kiting and should't be able to face tank like a dk sound like the typical rhetoric thrown around by people who have no experience whatsoever on sorc. Kiting w/o shield stacking is not very effective when gap closers allow anyone to stay within melee range. A sorc can't face tank like a dk when being faced by multiple competent opponents, because shields simply don't scale with multiple sources of aggro like healing and blocking do. Daedric mines are a great skill against scrubs, who freak out and have no idea how to play against him. But once you figure out the strategy on how to counter them they are quite literally a cake-walk and can be danced around and through.
I play multiple classes and sorcs feel plenty balanced right now. If you don't play a sorc, I can see why you might think some of the things you do. But making such strong arguments without perspective is foolish. If you DO play sorc and are on PC NA, I would love to duel you on my DK or Templar so I can demonstrate some of the points I'm making.
1. Yeah this ideal is based of the the same actuation that all stamina builds run proc sets not all Im included and if you read my post to Minalan about CP placement againt Stam builds
2.yes mSorc is a ranged dps class you have Kite machanics A teleport and Mine field but you wear light armor and play from range you should kite and maintain distance and some form a ranged in a fight to be effective, the problem is most sorcs like NBs want to face tank like a Dk and have high dmg
3. I never said kite with out shield stacking making up words here to argue a false point. No one should be able to face tank and deal dmg when facing multiple opponents in an AvAvA game, bring allies along.
4. Not really, Block doesn't scale with multiple people since it drains stam and doesn't recover, You can Out dmg healing so no here, and roll dodge although it does scale with multiple people it cannot be abused since it has a stacking cost increase, addtionaly not all attacks can be dodged.
5. No, the Dmg of Mines is not the problem it's all about the root which is the key roots are krytonites for melee builds since they arw forced to roll and cannot move potentially 5 times, then you can teleport and reposition drop mines again and even the storm Atro, embrace this skill since it hasn't received any nerfs for how powerful it is.
Sorc is fine now Although these buffs were not nessiary next patch I expect some sDK buffs. The problem with mSorcs and sNBs is people try to play the class differently than it was designed.
NB => Glass cannon assassin fights gurellia warfare style and it not confrontational.
Survivability through:
- Dodge
- Stealth
- Ally Agro
Sorc=> Glass cannon mage fights from safety of range
Summons pets to aid in battle and is not confrontational
Survivability through:
-distance
- Shields
- Kiting
- ally agro
For both classes can't have your cake and eat it too if you want survivability you give up dmg and vice versa. I would definitely fight you but Im on PS4 NA.
Why the hell do you keep saying mines are a kite mechanic? I play a stam DK and mines are a joke, I can run around in them all day and the root is a moot point, you have anti-root mechanics if you have half a brain.
Streak is most definitely NOT a root mechanic. If gap closers like crit charge had a 15 second cooldown on them like in most other MMOs, sure it could be considered a kite tool (assuming it had multiple charges).
Saying mSorcs should be glass canons like NBs is just ignorant. A NB (stamblade) has infinitely more kiting/escapability than an mSorc. When I'm on a msorc on my DK he has LITERALLY 0% chance of getting away from me. I'm on him 100% from the start of the fight.
The 'mage' class in most games has never historically been a class canon. Yes they always wear light or cloth armor, but they've always had multiple defensive tools to either kite (impossible in ESO), shield, buff their armor with spells, or 100% immunity tools.
Your argument is just so blatantly wrong and BIASED (hurr hurr hypocrite) towards stam builds it's crazy. And I've NEVER played a magicka build.
I think people underestimate the power of mines of you are fighting only one person they are very strong at relieving pressure almost op. Bad players will just go stomping through your mines. If a player hours one mine yes it tickles but if they hit 2 or even 3 in a short period that's decent damage to add to your combo. Good players will play around the mines to be sure that they don't get one-shotted by the sorc combo. But then choosing when to attack relieves pressure on you because they aren't constantly in you face. That allows you to free cast you spells while kiting around your mines. Mines are almost useless when fighting alot of people though though some times you can cast it in choke points to relieve pressure but I put them on my overload bar now and put mist form on my back bar. That's working much better.
Streak is strong though compared to other skills sure gap closer spam will counter it but gap closer spam counters everything in the game. It even counters nightblades shade if you drop a shade and people gap close you while you teleport they teleport with you no matter where you teleport to. What makes streak stronger than shade in most situations though is it can be spammed meaning you can use it multiple times. And while gap closers are annoying to streak they completely shut down mist form.
I do think kiting is possible in ESO as long as you aren't seriously outnumbered if it's you vs two or three people you can kite, anymore than that and yes I agree it's almost impossible. I don't think I've ever met a player who could stay on top of me the whole fight. If a player crit rushes you when curse is about to blow up and you have a frag proc they are as good as dead. It's pretty much the same as magblade the other kiting mage class. You can bait then into gap closing so you can burst them. It's actually better if you see a sorcs hands glowing to not stay on top of them to give you a reaction time to block the frag. Sorcs have alot of tools that's great 1v1 but they scale poorly when fighting multiple people. That's pretty much all mag classes though
Wish I was playing on your server...
(<_>)
You can't even kite one player in my campaign. Teh snaaarez make sure of that.
And you're not killing them with a Cursefrag. Hell, you're not even bringing them down to half health. They are that tanky.0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »You don't understand
@Anti_Virus
You're the one who doesn't understand. If you think its impossible to eat thru a shield stack as a stamina character then you aren't playing a stamina character right and you've never seen one played right. A lot of the arguments you make, regarding how sorcs should be based around kiting and should't be able to face tank like a dk sound like the typical rhetoric thrown around by people who have no experience whatsoever on sorc. Kiting w/o shield stacking is not very effective when gap closers allow anyone to stay within melee range. A sorc can't face tank like a dk when being faced by multiple competent opponents, because shields simply don't scale with multiple sources of aggro like healing and blocking do. Daedric mines are a great skill against scrubs, who freak out and have no idea how to play against him. But once you figure out the strategy on how to counter them they are quite literally a cake-walk and can be danced around and through.
I play multiple classes and sorcs feel plenty balanced right now. If you don't play a sorc, I can see why you might think some of the things you do. But making such strong arguments without perspective is foolish. If you DO play sorc and are on PC NA, I would love to duel you on my DK or Templar so I can demonstrate some of the points I'm making.
1. Yeah this ideal is based of the the same actuation that all stamina builds run proc sets not all Im included and if you read my post to Minalan about CP placement againt Stam builds
2.yes mSorc is a ranged dps class you have Kite machanics A teleport and Mine field but you wear light armor and play from range you should kite and maintain distance and some form a ranged in a fight to be effective, the problem is most sorcs like NBs want to face tank like a Dk and have high dmg
3. I never said kite with out shield stacking making up words here to argue a false point. No one should be able to face tank and deal dmg when facing multiple opponents in an AvAvA game, bring allies along.
4. Not really, Block doesn't scale with multiple people since it drains stam and doesn't recover, You can Out dmg healing so no here, and roll dodge although it does scale with multiple people it cannot be abused since it has a stacking cost increase, addtionaly not all attacks can be dodged.
5. No, the Dmg of Mines is not the problem it's all about the root which is the key roots are krytonites for melee builds since they arw forced to roll and cannot move potentially 5 times, then you can teleport and reposition drop mines again and even the storm Atro, embrace this skill since it hasn't received any nerfs for how powerful it is.
Sorc is fine now Although these buffs were not nessiary next patch I expect some sDK buffs. The problem with mSorcs and sNBs is people try to play the class differently than it was designed.
NB => Glass cannon assassin fights gurellia warfare style and it not confrontational.
Survivability through:
- Dodge
- Stealth
- Ally Agro
Sorc=> Glass cannon mage fights from safety of range
Summons pets to aid in battle and is not confrontational
Survivability through:
-distance
- Shields
- Kiting
- ally agro
For both classes can't have your cake and eat it too if you want survivability you give up dmg and vice versa. I would definitely fight you but Im on PS4 NA.
Why the hell do you keep saying mines are a kite mechanic? I play a stam DK and mines are a joke, I can run around in them all day and the root is a moot point, you have anti-root mechanics if you have half a brain.
Streak is most definitely NOT a root mechanic. If gap closers like crit charge had a 15 second cooldown on them like in most other MMOs, sure it could be considered a kite tool (assuming it had multiple charges).
Saying mSorcs should be glass canons like NBs is just ignorant. A NB (stamblade) has infinitely more kiting/escapability than an mSorc. When I'm on a msorc on my DK he has LITERALLY 0% chance of getting away from me. I'm on him 100% from the start of the fight.
The 'mage' class in most games has never historically been a class canon. Yes they always wear light or cloth armor, but they've always had multiple defensive tools to either kite (impossible in ESO), shield, buff their armor with spells, or 100% immunity tools.
Your argument is just so blatantly wrong and BIASED (hurr hurr hypocrite) towards stam builds it's crazy. And I've NEVER played a magicka build.
I think people underestimate the power of mines of you are fighting only one person they are very strong at relieving pressure almost op. Bad players will just go stomping through your mines. If a player hours one mine yes it tickles but if they hit 2 or even 3 in a short period that's decent damage to add to your combo. Good players will play around the mines to be sure that they don't get one-shotted by the sorc combo. But then choosing when to attack relieves pressure on you because they aren't constantly in you face. That allows you to free cast you spells while kiting around your mines. Mines are almost useless when fighting alot of people though though some times you can cast it in choke points to relieve pressure but I put them on my overload bar now and put mist form on my back bar. That's working much better.
Streak is strong though compared to other skills sure gap closer spam will counter it but gap closer spam counters everything in the game. It even counters nightblades shade if you drop a shade and people gap close you while you teleport they teleport with you no matter where you teleport to. What makes streak stronger than shade in most situations though is it can be spammed meaning you can use it multiple times. And while gap closers are annoying to streak they completely shut down mist form.
I do think kiting is possible in ESO as long as you aren't seriously outnumbered if it's you vs two or three people you can kite, anymore than that and yes I agree it's almost impossible. I don't think I've ever met a player who could stay on top of me the whole fight. If a player crit rushes you when curse is about to blow up and you have a frag proc they are as good as dead. It's pretty much the same as magblade the other kiting mage class. You can bait then into gap closing so you can burst them. It's actually better if you see a sorcs hands glowing to not stay on top of them to give you a reaction time to block the frag. Sorcs have alot of tools that's great 1v1 but they scale poorly when fighting multiple people. That's pretty much all mag classes though
Rat, I think what we're saying is.
Streak has an increasing cost with multiple casts. Gap closers don't. A magicka sorc will run out of streaks LONG before a stam build will run out of gap closers. Streak also won't remove you from gap closer range. It is not a kiting tool. It is an offensive/damaging ability that also allows you to close on fleeing enemies, reposition behind obstacles for LOS, and hide behind much stronger allies.arkansas_ESO wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »sorcs just need shield to be critable and 20 seconds long again then boom class is fine, nightblades are fine, templars are fine, dk's however need to be nerfed into the ground, stomped on, lit on fire, and left to burn in a ditch far away from me
What's the point of having a 20 second crittable shield? Most of they time, they don't last 6 seconds while being non crittable, if they are to be crittable, they'll be gone in less than 1 light attack + skill, so there's absolutely 0 point in buffering their duration lolkyle.wilson wrote: »A lot of players that have been running stam meta builds the last year, returned to the mag builds that they use to main before the massive stam buffs that went on for a year. Every patch was a stam buff before this one.
2 patches. DB and SotH. One Tamriel wasn't stamina or magicka, it was Eye of the Viper.
People want the duration so they can stack hardend ward and anulment, effectively giving sorcs 50k health again and 1 shield to refresh in the 20 second duration unless they get bursted thru both. Put Bastion in the Blue CP tree like the healing one is and you might get it.
Alright, I'll key in all the potatoes that think critable shields would be awesome...
Shields have no armor or mitigation, critting one would be a full hit for 22-25K on an onslaught out of stealth.
Shields max out at 12K or so, so the player takes the spill damage. All 15K or so of it, because light armor has no mitigation either after taking into account a sharpened weapon.
Add in a damage proc or two, and the sorc is dead. One shot. What good is a 20 second shield that offers no protection?
I'm sure that's fun for you, but not for them. Shields are fine.
Shields also benefit from dmg mitigation abilities like CP and Bone Pirate monster set which grants major protection 30% dmg reduction with a shield up.
It's possible to put 100 pts into hardy to gain 25% dmg mitigation from stam builds to your shields and use Harness + Hardened to gain free magicka againt mag builds while using Bone Pirate monster set for massive mitigation, its pretty effective.
You forgot those
So... I have a 10% chance not to get one shot with pirate skeleton? You know that has to proc right? Try again man.
Hardy is cancelled by mighty. Are you saying you have no points in mighty?
Come on. You know better than this.
100 pts into hardy cancels out 100 pts into Mighty. So no one should hit your shields a high amount especially since it can't crit
Bone Pirate monster set can grant you 30% addtional dmg mitigation with shields up lowering burst dmg against your shields. Yes it has a proc but shields are so effective it can proc easily it can proc on dots and if you Mine Camp it will be extremely easy to proc and survive.
Then You can stack Harness Magicka with Hardened ward against mag builds can restore free magicka from them.
I'm talking about stamina fights here, harness won't do anything other than fall instantly to proc damage. How big do you think harness is in Cyrodiil?
So... Really? Your solution is to force us all to wear pirate skeleton and put 100 points into hardy? Thus critable shields are balanced?
I'm really glad you're not in charge of balancing.
You don't understand, Putting 100pts into hardy Will lower burst dmg no Stam build should be breaking your wards quickly since it balances the dmg out and it won't ever crit. 12K wards stacked with 9-10k Harness + Hardened wards shouldn't break before the timer ends (6 secs) since CP Hardy Cancels out the The CP mighty.
If you really have trouble you can add additional dmg mitigation with the Monster set although its not needed.
Harness magicka should be only 2K pts less than Hardend ward.
I'll explain the game mechanics since you're not feeling it here.
12K shields is with 100 points into bastion. If you rob that, your shields are closer to 9-10K. Critable.
Unless you put no points into defense against dots or elemental defender.
Like it or not, shields were made non-critable for a reason. They have zero armor. They have zero impen. Putting mitigation points into shields only partially counters 100 in mighty, that doesn't stop a 25K critical hit against a no-impen shield. I already HAVE hardy, impen, and light armor mitigation without the shield, and it still hits that hard. Do I need to go through the math with you?
I know you want to be alpha class again after being so powerful for so long in One Tamriel. The problem isn't the nightblade class, it's that many nightblade players aren't nearly as good as they thought they were now that other classes are competitive.
I'm not sure what you're running, but my Hardened is 12k and my Annulment is 10k, so 22k worth of shields in total. I'd gladly take crittable shields if the duration went back to 20 seconds.
If you use the harness morph, it's about 8-9K or so tops.
Critable shields wouldn't last a single second because they would have no armor mitigation or impen. Yes Hardy applies, but so does Mighty to cancel that. Think of what would happen with a single 25K crit to your stack. It also wouldn't scale with multiple opponents at all. You get two or three people critting your shield they're gone and eating hard into your health because you're wearing light armor (which is countered by one 'sharpened' weapon).
I'd rather have a short duration, reactive, and effective defense that's like dodge or block.
Try playing without shields, light armor, 22K health, and no impen. And see how many hits it takes to take it all off. You're going to get one-shotted constantly.0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭thankyourat wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »You don't understand
@Anti_Virus
You're the one who doesn't understand. If you think its impossible to eat thru a shield stack as a stamina character then you aren't playing a stamina character right and you've never seen one played right. A lot of the arguments you make, regarding how sorcs should be based around kiting and should't be able to face tank like a dk sound like the typical rhetoric thrown around by people who have no experience whatsoever on sorc. Kiting w/o shield stacking is not very effective when gap closers allow anyone to stay within melee range. A sorc can't face tank like a dk when being faced by multiple competent opponents, because shields simply don't scale with multiple sources of aggro like healing and blocking do. Daedric mines are a great skill against scrubs, who freak out and have no idea how to play against him. But once you figure out the strategy on how to counter them they are quite literally a cake-walk and can be danced around and through.
I play multiple classes and sorcs feel plenty balanced right now. If you don't play a sorc, I can see why you might think some of the things you do. But making such strong arguments without perspective is foolish. If you DO play sorc and are on PC NA, I would love to duel you on my DK or Templar so I can demonstrate some of the points I'm making.
1. Yeah this ideal is based of the the same actuation that all stamina builds run proc sets not all Im included and if you read my post to Minalan about CP placement againt Stam builds
2.yes mSorc is a ranged dps class you have Kite machanics A teleport and Mine field but you wear light armor and play from range you should kite and maintain distance and some form a ranged in a fight to be effective, the problem is most sorcs like NBs want to face tank like a Dk and have high dmg
3. I never said kite with out shield stacking making up words here to argue a false point. No one should be able to face tank and deal dmg when facing multiple opponents in an AvAvA game, bring allies along.
4. Not really, Block doesn't scale with multiple people since it drains stam and doesn't recover, You can Out dmg healing so no here, and roll dodge although it does scale with multiple people it cannot be abused since it has a stacking cost increase, addtionaly not all attacks can be dodged.
5. No, the Dmg of Mines is not the problem it's all about the root which is the key roots are krytonites for melee builds since they arw forced to roll and cannot move potentially 5 times, then you can teleport and reposition drop mines again and even the storm Atro, embrace this skill since it hasn't received any nerfs for how powerful it is.
Sorc is fine now Although these buffs were not nessiary next patch I expect some sDK buffs. The problem with mSorcs and sNBs is people try to play the class differently than it was designed.
NB => Glass cannon assassin fights gurellia warfare style and it not confrontational.
Survivability through:
- Dodge
- Stealth
- Ally Agro
Sorc=> Glass cannon mage fights from safety of range
Summons pets to aid in battle and is not confrontational
Survivability through:
-distance
- Shields
- Kiting
- ally agro
For both classes can't have your cake and eat it too if you want survivability you give up dmg and vice versa. I would definitely fight you but Im on PS4 NA.
Why the hell do you keep saying mines are a kite mechanic? I play a stam DK and mines are a joke, I can run around in them all day and the root is a moot point, you have anti-root mechanics if you have half a brain.
Streak is most definitely NOT a root mechanic. If gap closers like crit charge had a 15 second cooldown on them like in most other MMOs, sure it could be considered a kite tool (assuming it had multiple charges).
Saying mSorcs should be glass canons like NBs is just ignorant. A NB (stamblade) has infinitely more kiting/escapability than an mSorc. When I'm on a msorc on my DK he has LITERALLY 0% chance of getting away from me. I'm on him 100% from the start of the fight.
The 'mage' class in most games has never historically been a class canon. Yes they always wear light or cloth armor, but they've always had multiple defensive tools to either kite (impossible in ESO), shield, buff their armor with spells, or 100% immunity tools.
Your argument is just so blatantly wrong and BIASED (hurr hurr hypocrite) towards stam builds it's crazy. And I've NEVER played a magicka build.
I think people underestimate the power of mines of you are fighting only one person they are very strong at relieving pressure almost op. Bad players will just go stomping through your mines. If a player hours one mine yes it tickles but if they hit 2 or even 3 in a short period that's decent damage to add to your combo. Good players will play around the mines to be sure that they don't get one-shotted by the sorc combo. But then choosing when to attack relieves pressure on you because they aren't constantly in you face. That allows you to free cast you spells while kiting around your mines. Mines are almost useless when fighting alot of people though though some times you can cast it in choke points to relieve pressure but I put them on my overload bar now and put mist form on my back bar. That's working much better.
Streak is strong though compared to other skills sure gap closer spam will counter it but gap closer spam counters everything in the game. It even counters nightblades shade if you drop a shade and people gap close you while you teleport they teleport with you no matter where you teleport to. What makes streak stronger than shade in most situations though is it can be spammed meaning you can use it multiple times. And while gap closers are annoying to streak they completely shut down mist form.
I do think kiting is possible in ESO as long as you aren't seriously outnumbered if it's you vs two or three people you can kite, anymore than that and yes I agree it's almost impossible. I don't think I've ever met a player who could stay on top of me the whole fight. If a player crit rushes you when curse is about to blow up and you have a frag proc they are as good as dead. It's pretty much the same as magblade the other kiting mage class. You can bait then into gap closing so you can burst them. It's actually better if you see a sorcs hands glowing to not stay on top of them to give you a reaction time to block the frag. Sorcs have alot of tools that's great 1v1 but they scale poorly when fighting multiple people. That's pretty much all mag classes though
Thank you this is what I have been trying to tell them.
In 1v1 Sorcs can Kite, but when faced with multiple targets you cannot but no class should be able to 1vX good players,
Each time I mention it they call me an idiot, and bias because I don't agree with there opinion.
Minalan insists that I want his sorc nerfed because I don't agree that shields are weak.
Streak is a great Kiting tool that has to be used sparingly, I wouldn't be opposed to gap closer cost increase or Removing the cost increase of Streak.Edited by Anti_Virus on 26 February 2017 01:24Power Wealth And Influence.0