Heavy armor is not overpowered by any means.

leepalmer95

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Yiko wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

6600 pen is 10% multiply that by two and you get 132000.

And I was somewhat close with Spriggins 4K pen is 6.1% physical pen.

Also its not practical to run that much pen, but you all complain that heavy has soo much resistance when you have all the resources to ignore it completely.

lolllllll
"Maces cause your attacks to ignore 20% of your target's Physical Resistance."
If I have 26,600 physical resistance & am hit with Major Fracture and Minor Fracture, I'll be taken down to 20,000 Physical Resistance. If Maul 20% armor penetration is applied after Fractures, then that would be 20% of 20,000 which would be 4,000 physical penetration. You fundamentally don't understand this AT ALL, and you say I don't understand math? You're helpless

Fail.

4000 is (6.1%) pen, I knew you would say that lol.

Don't you remember math? You have to divide like values. You can't divide a fraction by a percentage until you convert it to a percent.

26,600 (40.4% resistance) - 5820 major fracture( 8% pen) - 1320 minor fracture (2%) - 13200 two maces or one maul( 20%)= 6800 physical pen (10.3% resistance).

In numbers 40.4 physical resistance % - 30 physical pen%= 10.3 (10.4% rounded up).

Math fail on you lol.

[Edit]

660 physical or spell resistance/ pen is 1% if you know math and unit ratio you should be able to figure it out eventually.

You still haven't replied to me.

Yiko

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Don't you just love it when people get involved and write paragraphs about things they don't understand.

Man i love this forum some times.

My favorite part is when he spelled "theoretical" as "theredocal." AND he's STILL going. He's beyond help.

@Anti_Virus Mauls don't penetrate 20% of the maximum physical resistance - it's 20% of the target's physical resistance. Stop posting your garbage

Anti_Virus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

@Yiko

Here's a penetration calculation:

The average heavy armor build has 25K( 37.9%) resistance you can penetrate all of it making heavy armor users naked.
[Edit] values are based of off stamina based builds I don't want to make the post to long by including magicka pen calculations.

Major fracture: 5280(8%)
Minor fracture: 1320 (2%)
Sharpened: 5280 (8%)
Maces be it DE or 2H: 132000 (20%)
Spriggins: about 4620 (7%)
Kra'gs: about 2000 (3.1%)

5280+5280+1320+13200+4620+2000= 31556 possible physical penetration which is the equivalent in percentage to 47.8% resistance ignored.

Constitution is bad you don't understand math.
Cost reduction>>>>> regen.

Go out in full heavy with no cost reduction and see how long you can "infinitely sustain" when your average skill cost over 2K.

Spending 2K plus resources each sec when your recovry is less than 600 ( which tick each TWO seconds) and lets say you have black rose which adds 2K each 4 secs( 1K each two secs your stamina deficit would be:

2K+ cost per second with skills while regen is 500 per 2 secs so. 1500 stamina loss per sec then factor in constitution each for secs.

1500 x 4= 6000 stamina loss and constitution will give ( with blk rose) 2000 stam back.

6000-2000= 4000 stamina deficit


TL:DR

So to wrap this up, your theredocal "regen" would be about 1500 stam regen with full heavy black rose
But you'll still be at a stamina deficit of 500+ not calculating break free and block you Cannot infinitely sustain in heavy.

What makes these heavy builds seem to sustain "infinitely" is DK passives, battle roar + helping hands is where is comes from. If that was the cast don't you think NB would be wearing heavy armor too? What about sorcs?

Why is mace 13200?
Why is spriggans 4620... it's 4k all gold.
Realistically is a build really going to run all of that.

6600 pen is 10% multiply that by two and you get 132000.

And I was somewhat close with Spriggins 4K pen is 6.1% physical pen.

Also its not practical to run that much pen, but you all complain that heavy has soo much resistance when you have all the resources to ignore it completely.

Ok so it seems you really don't have any idea what your talking about, if your going to defend something at least so some basic knowledge.

The 2h mace passive doesn't just ignore 20% of the max resistance... It's 20% of the targets CURRENT armor, it's also first in the calculation.

So 25k.

5000 from mace.
5280 from sharpened
5280 from major fracture (assuming they have this)
1320 from minor fracture (assuming they have this)
4000 from spriggans (assuming they have this)
1935 from Kra'gh (Assuming they have this, again your numbers were off....)

= 22,815.

So no they wouldn't penetrate everything even if they did for some reason run a pure penetration set up and gimp themselves so much again light/medium and shields.

No one would use kra'gh, usually a 2x monster set proc or 2x weapon damage or a 1 piece for 1/5/5

Only stamblade has access to major fracture easily, the only other way is dk's breath which wouldn't be used or be up most of the time or ransack which is a s&b which is usually on heavy builds.

Spriggans , viper is just better.

Minor fracture - Not many classes have access to it and even then most don't use it, it can be an enchant but there are just simply better enchants as well as poisons.

Anything else?

Read my reply to Yiko.

660 physical pen is 1%

660 ×10 = 6600(10%) × 2 13200 (20%)


It says "Ignores 20% of your targets armor.

Target has 25K(37.9%) - 13200 (20%)

25000(37.9) - 13200(20%) = 11800 (17.9% here you have ingored 20% of his/her armor making you dmg more effective)

"Ignores 20% of your targets armor"

Simple subtraction

According to you 25000 × .2 = 5000 (7.6% physical pen)

Then you would subtract that value from 25K

25K - 5K = 20K in numbers that would be:

37.9% - 7.6%( this value representing the DW or 2H mace passive) = 30.3%

This =/ 20% once again simple math you cannot divide a percentage with a rating. That's like comparing apples to orange.

Math fail.

Anti_Virus

Yiko wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Don't you just love it when people get involved and write paragraphs about things they don't understand.

Man i love this forum some times.

My favorite part is when he spelled "theoretical" as "theredocal." AND he's STILL going. He's beyond help.

@Anti_Virus Mauls don't penetrate 20% of the maximum physical resistance - it's 20% of the target's physical resistance. Stop posting your garbage

Can you back that claim up with evidence? The tool tip says "ignores 20% of the targets physical resistance"

Or are you going go throw around ad hominem like a 5 year old?

leepalmer95

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Yiko wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Don't you just love it when people get involved and write paragraphs about things they don't understand.

Man i love this forum some times.

My favorite part is when he spelled "theoretical" as "theredocal." AND he's STILL going. He's beyond help.

@Anti_Virus Mauls don't penetrate 20% of the maximum physical resistance - it's 20% of the target's physical resistance. Stop posting your garbage

Can you back that claim up with evidence? The tool tip says "ignores 20% of the targets physical resistance" doesn't say "maximum"

Or are you going go throw around ad hominem like a 5 year old?

Read my post... i literally done the maths for you.

There is no 'evidence' needed , it's fact. Google it.

Also the fact it has the word target in it should give it away, Target means the amount is a variable and will change.

/E

Your so bad at this, your trying to prove maths that has already been proved a long time ago and done by people who actually know what they are talking about.

Also you literally just calculated the mace passive twice in your reply to me.

I need an ultimate facepalm meme.

Yiko

Anti_Virus wrote: »

660 physical pen is 1%

660 ×10 = 6600(10%) × 2 13200 (20%)


It says "Ignores 20% of your targets armor.

Target has 25K(37.9%) - 13200 (20%)

25000(37.9) - 13200(20%) = 11800 (17.9% here you have ingored 20% of his/her armor making you dmg more effective)

"Ignores 20% of your targets armor"

Simple subtraction

According to you 25000 × .2 = 5000 (7.6% physical pen)

Then you would subtract that value from 25K

25K - 5K = 20K in numbers that would be:

37.9% - 7.6%( this value representing the DW or 2H mace passive) = 30.3%

This =/ 20% once again simple math you cannot divide a percentage with a rating. That's like comparing apples to orange.

Math fail.

Here's where you're misunderstanding. 660 physical pen is 1% of MAXIMUM POSSIBLE PHYSICAL RESISTANCE.
If your target has 33000 Physical Resistance, 660 physical penetration is 2% effective penetration against that target.
If your target has 16,5000 Physical Resistance, 660 physical penetration is 4% effective penetration against that target.

Major Fracture is 5280 physical penetration, or 8% of MAXIMUM POSSIBLE PHYSICAL RESISTANCE.
If your target has 5280 Physical Resistance, and then you apply Major Fracture to them, you are ignoring 100% of the target's Physical Resistance.

If your target has 33,000 Physical Resistance, and you are using a Maul, 20% of your target's CURRENT PHYSICAL RESISTANCE is going to be penetrated. In this case, that would be 6600 physical penetration.

I'm going to treat you like a 5-year-old if you're going to function like one.

Anti_Virus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Yiko wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Don't you just love it when people get involved and write paragraphs about things they don't understand.

Man i love this forum some times.

My favorite part is when he spelled "theoretical" as "theredocal." AND he's STILL going. He's beyond help.

@Anti_Virus Mauls don't penetrate 20% of the maximum physical resistance - it's 20% of the target's physical resistance. Stop posting your garbage

Can you back that claim up with evidence? The tool tip says "ignores 20% of the targets physical resistance" doesn't say "maximum"

Or are you going go throw around ad hominem like a 5 year old?

Read my post... i literally done the maths for you.

There is no 'evidence' needed , it's fact. Google it.

Also the fact it has the word target in it should give it away, Target means the amount is a variable and will change.

/E

Your so bad at this, your trying to prove maths that has already been proved a long time ago and done by people who actually know what they are talking about.

Also you literally just calculated the mace passive twice in your reply to me.

I need an ultimate facepalm meme.

Let's go by your logic.

Replace "major fracture text" with the following tool tip:

Ignores 8% of your targets physical resistance.

25k x .08 = 2000 physical pen.

According to you each time a nightblade uses Suprise attack it would remove 2000 physical resistance from the targets armor instead of 5280.

25000(37.9%) - 2000(3.4%) = 23000(33.5%) physical resistance.

Minor fracture replace with: " ignores 2% of your targets armor"

25k x .02= 500.

Instead of 1320 it would only remove 500 physical resistance.

25000 - 500 = 24500 according to you.

Do you see the flaw in your math?

Anti_Virus

Yiko wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

660 physical pen is 1%

660 ×10 = 6600(10%) × 2 13200 (20%)


It says "Ignores 20% of your targets armor.

Target has 25K(37.9%) - 13200 (20%)

25000(37.9) - 13200(20%) = 11800 (17.9% here you have ingored 20% of his/her armor making you dmg more effective)

"Ignores 20% of your targets armor"

Simple subtraction

According to you 25000 × .2 = 5000 (7.6% physical pen)

Then you would subtract that value from 25K

25K - 5K = 20K in numbers that would be:

37.9% - 7.6%( this value representing the DW or 2H mace passive) = 30.3%

This =/ 20% once again simple math you cannot divide a percentage with a rating. That's like comparing apples to orange.

Math fail.

Here's where you're misunderstanding. 660 physical pen is 1% of MAXIMUM POSSIBLE PHYSICAL RESISTANCE.
If your target has 33000 Physical Resistance, 660 physical penetration is 2% effective penetration against that target.
If your target has 16,5000 Physical Resistance, 660 physical penetration is 4% effective penetration against that target.

Major Fracture is 5280 physical penetration, or 8% of MAXIMUM POSSIBLE PHYSICAL RESISTANCE.
If your target has 5280 Physical Resistance, and then you apply Major Fracture to them, you are ignoring 100% of the target's Physical Resistance.

If your target has 33,000 Physical Resistance, and you are using a Maul, 20% of your target's CURRENT PHYSICAL RESISTANCE is going to be penetrated. In this case, that would be 6600 physical penetration.

I'm going to treat you like a 5-year-old if you're going to function like one.

660 = 1% for players

500 = 1% for PVE MOBS

The second paragraph is correct.

The third is another math fail read my reply to leepalmer. I think you miss understand the text when it sais major fracture.

Seems like you've matured, now we can have an adult discussion.

Yiko

Anti_Virus wrote: »

660 = 1% for players

500 = 1% for PVE MOBS

The second paragraph is correct.

The third is another math fail read my reply to leepalmer. I think you miss understand the text when it sais major fracture.

Seems like you've matured, now we can have an adult discussion.

There's nothing left to discuss. The math is there & is correct. Lee and I have tried to explain it, and you still don't understand it.
If you want to believe that a Maul reduces a target's Physical Resistance by a flat 13,200, that's your prerogative.

Shows the type of person that thinks medium armor is better than heavy armor for non-gank stam builds LOL

leepalmer95

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Yiko wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

660 physical pen is 1%

660 ×10 = 6600(10%) × 2 13200 (20%)


It says "Ignores 20% of your targets armor.

Target has 25K(37.9%) - 13200 (20%)

25000(37.9) - 13200(20%) = 11800 (17.9% here you have ingored 20% of his/her armor making you dmg more effective)

"Ignores 20% of your targets armor"

Simple subtraction

According to you 25000 × .2 = 5000 (7.6% physical pen)

Then you would subtract that value from 25K

25K - 5K = 20K in numbers that would be:

37.9% - 7.6%( this value representing the DW or 2H mace passive) = 30.3%

This =/ 20% once again simple math you cannot divide a percentage with a rating. That's like comparing apples to orange.

Math fail.

Here's where you're misunderstanding. 660 physical pen is 1% of MAXIMUM POSSIBLE PHYSICAL RESISTANCE.
If your target has 33000 Physical Resistance, 660 physical penetration is 2% effective penetration against that target.
If your target has 16,5000 Physical Resistance, 660 physical penetration is 4% effective penetration against that target.

Major Fracture is 5280 physical penetration, or 8% of MAXIMUM POSSIBLE PHYSICAL RESISTANCE.
If your target has 5280 Physical Resistance, and then you apply Major Fracture to them, you are ignoring 100% of the target's Physical Resistance.

If your target has 33,000 Physical Resistance, and you are using a Maul, 20% of your target's CURRENT PHYSICAL RESISTANCE is going to be penetrated. In this case, that would be 6600 physical penetration.

I'm going to treat you like a 5-year-old if you're going to function like one.

660 = 1% for players

500 = 1% for PVE MOBS

The second paragraph is correct.

The third is another math fail read my reply to leepalmer. I think you miss understand the text when it sais major fracture.

Seems like you've matured, now we can have an adult discussion.

omg... like really? Is this real life.


Your getting mixed up with % based debuff's and flat penetration debuff.

660 armor is 1% reduction. It doesn't matter when anyones resistance is.

6600 is 10%

The 20% of the mace passive is depending on the targets armor.

If they had 10k then 20% would be 2k and it would reduce their armor by around 3%

If they had 15k then 20% would be 3k...would reduce by 4.5%

ETC...

The 2h or dw mace passive is the ONLY passive that works based on the targets current armor.

Everything else, e.g. the FLAT numbers works as 660 = 1%.

FML.

Are you doing this on purpose or are you failing to understand basic maths? 5280 isn't a % based reduction but you can change it so a % based one. 50% is 33000, the cap is 33000.

5280/660 is 8%. Doesn't matter if they have 10k armor or 33k.

Come on really.

Anti_Virus

Anti_Virus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Yiko wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Don't you just love it when people get involved and write paragraphs about things they don't understand.

Man i love this forum some times.

My favorite part is when he spelled "theoretical" as "theredocal." AND he's STILL going. He's beyond help.

@Anti_Virus Mauls don't penetrate 20% of the maximum physical resistance - it's 20% of the target's physical resistance. Stop posting your garbage

Can you back that claim up with evidence? The tool tip says "ignores 20% of the targets physical resistance" doesn't say "maximum"

Or are you going go throw around ad hominem like a 5 year old?

Read my post... i literally done the maths for you.

There is no 'evidence' needed , it's fact. Google it.

Also the fact it has the word target in it should give it away, Target means the amount is a variable and will change.

/E

Your so bad at this, your trying to prove maths that has already been proved a long time ago and done by people who actually know what they are talking about.

Also you literally just calculated the mace passive twice in your reply to me.

I need an ultimate facepalm meme.

Let's go by your logic.

Replace "major fracture text" with the following tool tip:

Ignores 8% of your targets physical resistance.

25k x .08 = 2000 physical pen.

According to you each time a nightblade uses Suprise attack it would remove 2000 physical resistance from the targets armor instead of 5280.

25000(37.9%) - 2000(3.4%) = 23000(33.5%) physical resistance.

Minor fracture replace with: " ignores 2% of your targets armor"

25k x .02= 500.

Instead of 1320 it would only remove 500 physical resistance.

25000 - 500 = 24500 according to you.

Do you see the flaw in your math?

@leepalmer95, @Yiko

leepalmer95

Yiko wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

660 = 1% for players

500 = 1% for PVE MOBS

The second paragraph is correct.

The third is another math fail read my reply to leepalmer. I think you miss understand the text when it sais major fracture.

Seems like you've matured, now we can have an adult discussion.

There's nothing left to discuss. The math is there & is correct. Lee and I have tried to explain it, and you still don't understand it.
If you want to believe that a Maul reduces a target's Physical Resistance by a flat 13,200, that's your prerogative.

Shows the type of person that thinks medium armor is better than heavy armor for non-gank stam builds LOL

I can't deal with this.

Maul = more pen than light armor + sharpened?

Yeah because players would let that imbalance last for 2.5 years.

Im laughing so hard right now.

leepalmer95

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Yiko wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Don't you just love it when people get involved and write paragraphs about things they don't understand.

Man i love this forum some times.

My favorite part is when he spelled "theoretical" as "theredocal." AND he's STILL going. He's beyond help.

@Anti_Virus Mauls don't penetrate 20% of the maximum physical resistance - it's 20% of the target's physical resistance. Stop posting your garbage

Can you back that claim up with evidence? The tool tip says "ignores 20% of the targets physical resistance" doesn't say "maximum"

Or are you going go throw around ad hominem like a 5 year old?

Read my post... i literally done the maths for you.

There is no 'evidence' needed , it's fact. Google it.

Also the fact it has the word target in it should give it away, Target means the amount is a variable and will change.

/E

Your so bad at this, your trying to prove maths that has already been proved a long time ago and done by people who actually know what they are talking about.

Also you literally just calculated the mace passive twice in your reply to me.

I need an ultimate facepalm meme.

Let's go by your logic.

Replace "major fracture text" with the following tool tip:

Ignores 8% of your targets physical resistance.

25k x .08 = 2000 physical pen.

According to you each time a nightblade uses Suprise attack it would remove 2000 physical resistance from the targets armor instead of 5280.

25000(37.9%) - 2000(3.4%) = 23000(33.5%) physical resistance.

Minor fracture replace with: " ignores 2% of your targets armor"

25k x .02= 500.

Instead of 1320 it would only remove 500 physical resistance.

25000 - 500 = 24500 according to you.

Do you see the flaw in your math?

@leepalmer95, @Yiko

I can't begin to explain just how painfully wrong that maths is.

Anti_Virus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Yiko wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

660 physical pen is 1%

660 ×10 = 6600(10%) × 2 13200 (20%)


It says "Ignores 20% of your targets armor.

Target has 25K(37.9%) - 13200 (20%)

25000(37.9) - 13200(20%) = 11800 (17.9% here you have ingored 20% of his/her armor making you dmg more effective)

"Ignores 20% of your targets armor"

Simple subtraction

According to you 25000 × .2 = 5000 (7.6% physical pen)

Then you would subtract that value from 25K

25K - 5K = 20K in numbers that would be:

37.9% - 7.6%( this value representing the DW or 2H mace passive) = 30.3%

This =/ 20% once again simple math you cannot divide a percentage with a rating. That's like comparing apples to orange.

Math fail.

Here's where you're misunderstanding. 660 physical pen is 1% of MAXIMUM POSSIBLE PHYSICAL RESISTANCE.
If your target has 33000 Physical Resistance, 660 physical penetration is 2% effective penetration against that target.
If your target has 16,5000 Physical Resistance, 660 physical penetration is 4% effective penetration against that target.

Major Fracture is 5280 physical penetration, or 8% of MAXIMUM POSSIBLE PHYSICAL RESISTANCE.
If your target has 5280 Physical Resistance, and then you apply Major Fracture to them, you are ignoring 100% of the target's Physical Resistance.

If your target has 33,000 Physical Resistance, and you are using a Maul, 20% of your target's CURRENT PHYSICAL RESISTANCE is going to be penetrated. In this case, that would be 6600 physical penetration.

I'm going to treat you like a 5-year-old if you're going to function like one.

660 = 1% for players

500 = 1% for PVE MOBS

The second paragraph is correct.

The third is another math fail read my reply to leepalmer. I think you miss understand the text when it sais major fracture.

Seems like you've matured, now we can have an adult discussion.

omg... like really? Is this real life.


Your getting mixed up with % based debuff's and flat penetration debuff.

660 armor is 1% reduction. It doesn't matter when anyones resistance is.

6600 is 10%

The 20% of the mace passive is depending on the targets armor.

If they had 10k then 20% would be 2k and it would reduce their armor by around 3%

If they had 15k then 20% would be 3k...would reduce by 4.5%

ETC...

The 2h or dw mace passive is the ONLY passive that works based on the targets current armor.

Everything else, e.g. the FLAT numbers works as 660 = 1%.

FML.

Are you doing this on purpose or are you failing to understand basic maths? 5280 isn't a % based reduction but you can change it so a % based one. 50% is 33000, the cap is 33000.

5280/660 is 8%. Doesn't matter if they have 10k armor or 33k.

Come on really.

1. I thought you were done with me lol

2. 5280 is a flat value, if you convert it to a percentage it's the same as 8% pen or resistance.

Ofcourse 20% is variable, the higher the target armor the more effective. 20% physical pen converted to a rating( like major fracture) using the unit ratio 660 = 1% is 13200.

Now 20% armor is over kill against medium and light armour since they don't have over 13200. It's meant to be used against heavy (plate). If Zos revised the tool tip to a rating like major fracture it would read instead:

"Ignores 13200(20%) physical resistance of your targets physical resistance"

By your logic the spriggans set. Which is about 4K (6.1% converted to a percentage) would be as follows.

15K x .06 = 900 physical pen ( 1.4% pen converted to percentage)

So by your logic if you wear spriggans going by the whole "Maces passive is the only passive that works based on current armor"

Spriggins would only subtract 900 physical resistance instead of 4K.

Yiko

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I can't deal with this.

Maul = more pen than light armor + sharpened?

Yeah because players would let that imbalance last for 2.5 years.

Im laughing so hard right now.

Lmao I keep thinking to myself that there is no way this is a human being.
Keeps quoting us and saying "MATH FAIL".. idk how we got sucked into this.

There's a reason I called him and OP subhuman earlier, should have just left it at that

Anti_Virus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Yiko wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

660 = 1% for players

500 = 1% for PVE MOBS

The second paragraph is correct.

The third is another math fail read my reply to leepalmer. I think you miss understand the text when it sais major fracture.

Seems like you've matured, now we can have an adult discussion.

There's nothing left to discuss. The math is there & is correct. Lee and I have tried to explain it, and you still don't understand it.
If you want to believe that a Maul reduces a target's Physical Resistance by a flat 13,200, that's your prerogative.

Shows the type of person that thinks medium armor is better than heavy armor for non-gank stam builds LOL

I can't deal with this.

Maul = more pen than light armor + sharpened?

Yeah because players would let that imbalance last for 2.5 years.

Im laughing so hard right now.

Yes I believe.

4884 (7.4%) + 5280 (8%)= 10164 (15.4%) vs 13200 (20%)

But I need more info, is it sharped staff or blades? Staff would add an additional 6600 (10%) to the equation albiet the passive ONLY applies to staff abilities.

If you're using a sharpened staff in LA then you have more pen then 2 DW maces or one 2H maul.

16764( 25.4 %) pen vs Mace 13200 ( 20%) pen.

Anti_Virus

Yiko wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I can't deal with this.

Maul = more pen than light armor + sharpened?

Yeah because players would let that imbalance last for 2.5 years.

Im laughing so hard right now.

Lmao I keep thinking to myself that there is no way this is a human being.
Keeps quoting us and saying "MATH FAIL".. idk how we got sucked into this.

There's a reason I called him and OP subhuman earlier, should have just left it at that

I see you've degraded yourself back to a 5 year old with insults again, I will now treat you like one.

Anti_Virus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Yiko wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Don't you just love it when people get involved and write paragraphs about things they don't understand.

Man i love this forum some times.

My favorite part is when he spelled "theoretical" as "theredocal." AND he's STILL going. He's beyond help.

@Anti_Virus Mauls don't penetrate 20% of the maximum physical resistance - it's 20% of the target's physical resistance. Stop posting your garbage

Can you back that claim up with evidence? The tool tip says "ignores 20% of the targets physical resistance" doesn't say "maximum"

Or are you going go throw around ad hominem like a 5 year old?

Read my post... i literally done the maths for you.

There is no 'evidence' needed , it's fact. Google it.

Also the fact it has the word target in it should give it away, Target means the amount is a variable and will change.

/E

Your so bad at this, your trying to prove maths that has already been proved a long time ago and done by people who actually know what they are talking about.

Also you literally just calculated the mace passive twice in your reply to me.

I need an ultimate facepalm meme.

Let's go by your logic.

Replace "major fracture text" with the following tool tip:

Ignores 8% of your targets physical resistance.

25k x .08 = 2000 physical pen.

According to you each time a nightblade uses Suprise attack it would remove 2000 physical resistance from the targets armor instead of 5280.

25000(37.9%) - 2000(3.4%) = 23000(33.5%) physical resistance.

Minor fracture replace with: " ignores 2% of your targets armor"

25k x .02= 500.

Instead of 1320 it would only remove 500 physical resistance.

25000 - 500 = 24500 according to you.

Do you see the flaw in your math?

@leepalmer95, @Yiko

I can't begin to explain just how painfully wrong that maths is.

So you just stated that your math is wrong...

leepalmer95

Anti_Virus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Yiko wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

660 physical pen is 1%

660 ×10 = 6600(10%) × 2 13200 (20%)


It says "Ignores 20% of your targets armor.

Target has 25K(37.9%) - 13200 (20%)

25000(37.9) - 13200(20%) = 11800 (17.9% here you have ingored 20% of his/her armor making you dmg more effective)

"Ignores 20% of your targets armor"

Simple subtraction

According to you 25000 × .2 = 5000 (7.6% physical pen)

Then you would subtract that value from 25K

25K - 5K = 20K in numbers that would be:

37.9% - 7.6%( this value representing the DW or 2H mace passive) = 30.3%

This =/ 20% once again simple math you cannot divide a percentage with a rating. That's like comparing apples to orange.

Math fail.

Here's where you're misunderstanding. 660 physical pen is 1% of MAXIMUM POSSIBLE PHYSICAL RESISTANCE.
If your target has 33000 Physical Resistance, 660 physical penetration is 2% effective penetration against that target.
If your target has 16,5000 Physical Resistance, 660 physical penetration is 4% effective penetration against that target.

Major Fracture is 5280 physical penetration, or 8% of MAXIMUM POSSIBLE PHYSICAL RESISTANCE.
If your target has 5280 Physical Resistance, and then you apply Major Fracture to them, you are ignoring 100% of the target's Physical Resistance.

If your target has 33,000 Physical Resistance, and you are using a Maul, 20% of your target's CURRENT PHYSICAL RESISTANCE is going to be penetrated. In this case, that would be 6600 physical penetration.

I'm going to treat you like a 5-year-old if you're going to function like one.

660 = 1% for players

500 = 1% for PVE MOBS

The second paragraph is correct.

The third is another math fail read my reply to leepalmer. I think you miss understand the text when it sais major fracture.

Seems like you've matured, now we can have an adult discussion.

omg... like really? Is this real life.


Your getting mixed up with % based debuff's and flat penetration debuff.

660 armor is 1% reduction. It doesn't matter when anyones resistance is.

6600 is 10%

The 20% of the mace passive is depending on the targets armor.

If they had 10k then 20% would be 2k and it would reduce their armor by around 3%

If they had 15k then 20% would be 3k...would reduce by 4.5%

ETC...

The 2h or dw mace passive is the ONLY passive that works based on the targets current armor.

Everything else, e.g. the FLAT numbers works as 660 = 1%.

FML.

Are you doing this on purpose or are you failing to understand basic maths? 5280 isn't a % based reduction but you can change it so a % based one. 50% is 33000, the cap is 33000.

5280/660 is 8%. Doesn't matter if they have 10k armor or 33k.

Come on really.

1. I thought you were done with me lol

2. 5280 is a flat value, if you convert it to a percentage it's the same as 8% pen or resistance.

Ofcourse 20% is variable, the higher the target armor the more effective. 20% physical pen converted to a rating( like major fracture) using the unit ratio 660 = 1% is 13200.

Now 20% armor is over kill against medium and light armour since they don't have over 13200. It's meant to be used against heavy (plate). If Zos revised the tool tip to a rating like major fracture it would read instead:

"Ignores 13200(20%) physical resistance of your targets physical resistance"

By your logic the spriggans set. Which is about 4K (6.1% converted to a percentage) would be as follows.

15K x .06 = 900 physical pen ( 1.4% pen converted to percentage)

So by your logic if you wear spriggans going by the whole "Maces passive is the only passive that works based on current armor"

Spriggins would only subtract 900 physical resistance instead of 4K.

Wow... just wow.

Stay in school.

Your maths is basically you going 15/372723 - 0.5 = 14.5/372723

If you have two different types of values in different formats the first step is to change them to the same type. Change them to flat values pls..

Also for the last time the 2h/dw passive is NOT the MAX possible armor reduction. It's not 660 x 20, it's not even 33000.

It's 20% of whatever armor the target has, you then TAKE it away.

25000 x 0.8 = 20000

25000 - 20000 = 5000

20% would be 5000.

Stop multiplying random stuff, maths does not work like that.

A mace would take away 5000 armor in THIS case. Because the target has 25000. It would take more if they had more and would take less if they had less.

I 100% can not explain this simpler.

A mace does not increase damage by 20% which is basically what your saying as 13200 is a 20% dmg increase if they have over that armor.

Really stay in school.

Im actually done now, believe what you want i really don't care this thread was about heavy armor.

Thanks to your posts people now know you have 0 idea what your talking about. So please do everyone a favour and stay out of discussions you no nothing about.

Moving on people.

Anti_Virus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Yiko wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

660 physical pen is 1%

660 ×10 = 6600(10%) × 2 13200 (20%)


It says "Ignores 20% of your targets armor.

Target has 25K(37.9%) - 13200 (20%)

25000(37.9) - 13200(20%) = 11800 (17.9% here you have ingored 20% of his/her armor making you dmg more effective)

"Ignores 20% of your targets armor"

Simple subtraction

According to you 25000 × .2 = 5000 (7.6% physical pen)

Then you would subtract that value from 25K

25K - 5K = 20K in numbers that would be:

37.9% - 7.6%( this value representing the DW or 2H mace passive) = 30.3%

This =/ 20% once again simple math you cannot divide a percentage with a rating. That's like comparing apples to orange.

Math fail.

Here's where you're misunderstanding. 660 physical pen is 1% of MAXIMUM POSSIBLE PHYSICAL RESISTANCE.
If your target has 33000 Physical Resistance, 660 physical penetration is 2% effective penetration against that target.
If your target has 16,5000 Physical Resistance, 660 physical penetration is 4% effective penetration against that target.

Major Fracture is 5280 physical penetration, or 8% of MAXIMUM POSSIBLE PHYSICAL RESISTANCE.
If your target has 5280 Physical Resistance, and then you apply Major Fracture to them, you are ignoring 100% of the target's Physical Resistance.

If your target has 33,000 Physical Resistance, and you are using a Maul, 20% of your target's CURRENT PHYSICAL RESISTANCE is going to be penetrated. In this case, that would be 6600 physical penetration.

I'm going to treat you like a 5-year-old if you're going to function like one.

660 = 1% for players

500 = 1% for PVE MOBS

The second paragraph is correct.

The third is another math fail read my reply to leepalmer. I think you miss understand the text when it sais major fracture.

Seems like you've matured, now we can have an adult discussion.

omg... like really? Is this real life.


Your getting mixed up with % based debuff's and flat penetration debuff.

660 armor is 1% reduction. It doesn't matter when anyones resistance is.

6600 is 10%

The 20% of the mace passive is depending on the targets armor.

If they had 10k then 20% would be 2k and it would reduce their armor by around 3%

If they had 15k then 20% would be 3k...would reduce by 4.5%

ETC...

The 2h or dw mace passive is the ONLY passive that works based on the targets current armor.

Everything else, e.g. the FLAT numbers works as 660 = 1%.

FML.

Are you doing this on purpose or are you failing to understand basic maths? 5280 isn't a % based reduction but you can change it so a % based one. 50% is 33000, the cap is 33000.

5280/660 is 8%. Doesn't matter if they have 10k armor or 33k.

Come on really.

1. I thought you were done with me lol

2. 5280 is a flat value, if you convert it to a percentage it's the same as 8% pen or resistance.

Ofcourse 20% is variable, the higher the target armor the more effective. 20% physical pen converted to a rating( like major fracture) using the unit ratio 660 = 1% is 13200.

Now 20% armor is over kill against medium and light armour since they don't have over 13200. It's meant to be used against heavy (plate). If Zos revised the tool tip to a rating like major fracture it would read instead:

"Ignores 13200(20%) physical resistance of your targets physical resistance"

By your logic the spriggans set. Which is about 4K (6.1% converted to a percentage) would be as follows.

15K x .06 = 900 physical pen ( 1.4% pen converted to percentage)

So by your logic if you wear spriggans going by the whole "Maces passive is the only passive that works based on current armor"

Spriggins would only subtract 900 physical resistance instead of 4K.

Wow... just wow.

Stay in school.

Your maths is basically you going 15/372723 - 0.5 = 14.5/372723

If you have two different types of values in different formats the first step is to change them to the same type. Change them to flat values pls..

Also for the last time the 2h/dw passive is NOT the MAX possible armor reduction. It's not 660 x 20, it's not even 33000.

It's 20% of whatever armor the target has, you then TAKE it away.

25000 x 0.8 = 20000

25000 - 20000 = 5000

20% would be 5000.

Stop multiplying random stuff, maths does not work like that.

A mace would take away 5000 armor in THIS case. Because the target has 25000. It would take more if they had more and would take less if they had less.

I 100% can not explain this simpler.

A mace does not increase damage by 20% which is basically what your saying as 13200 is a 20% dmg increase if they have over that armor.

Really stay in school.

Im actually done now, believe what you want i really don't care this thread was about heavy armor.

Thanks to your posts people now know you have 0 idea what your talking about. So please do everyone a favour and stay out of discussions you no nothing about.

Moving on people.

Good. So according to you major fracture is 2000 physical pen instead of 5280.

[Edit]

8% of 25000 is not 20,000.

It's 2,000

Do the math.

80% of 25000 is 20,000 -___-

Solidsnake993

This guy clearly needs to do a little bit more research before making posts.

My point in this discussion however is that I can still wreck you no matter how much armor you try to hide behind.

The regen and cost reduction that you get from wearing light armor stumps the constitution passive. I don't care who you think you are but your resources are more sustain in medium or heavy. Your health bar is slightly different. Cost reduction + recovery = more sustain. You don't really feel that much stronger in heavy armor. I have seen a level 26 nearly wreck a 501 (a long time ago) magicka templar in heavy armor. After seeing magicka templars in heavy armor have health bars drop at the same rate as magicka templars wearing light armor, that's what I knew that heavy armor is a joke.

thankyourat

@Anti_Virus If you have a calculator just type 26,000 x .20, you have to change the percent to a decimal and just multiply and that will give you the answer

leepalmer95

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

This guy clearly needs to do a little bit more research before making posts.

My point in this discussion however is that I can still wreck you no matter how much armor you try to hide behind.

The regen and cost reduction that you get from wearing light armor stumps the constitution passive. I don't care who you think you are but your resources are more sustain in medium or heavy. Your health bar is slightly different. Cost reduction + recovery = more sustain. You don't really feel that much stronger in heavy armor. I have seen a level 26 nearly wreck a 501 (a long time ago) magicka templar in heavy armor. After seeing magicka templars in heavy armor have health bars drop at the same rate as magicka templars wearing light armor, that's what I knew that heavy armor is a joke.

A stam sorc goes 5x heavy and will never run out of sustain and every slot is for max damage.

Make a medium build, 5x medium and throw nothing into regen, not glyph's or armor. Just pure dmg.

Compare stats and see if you can infinitely sustain.

Make a video and get back to me?

You have more regen and reduction right? Should be easy.

Anti_Virus

thankyourat wrote: »

@Anti_Virus If you have a calculator just type 26,000 x .20, you have to change the percent to a decimal and just multiply and that will give you the answer

I got 5200 which I believe is 7.8% pen correct me if I'm wrong.

After that you would subtract 26000- 5200= 20,800

But this doen't equal what the tool tip says. If I convert them to percentages

39.4% - 7.8% = 31.6%

The tool tip say ignores 20% of armor the above equation is only ingoring 7.8% see below:

39.4% - 20%= 19.4%

This equation matches the toop tip better I may be off though,

But if we apply it to say major fracture 5280 (8%) then.

26000 × .08% = 2080 and each time a nightblade would use surprise attack it would subtract 2080 from 26000 instead of 5280.

pieratsos

@Anti_Virus If you dont like maths use common sense. Dont you think 13k pen for just using maces would be broken af? Why on earth would anyone run anything else in both PVE and PVP.

Anti_Virus

pieratsos wrote: »

@Anti_Virus If you dont like maths use common sense. Dont you think 13k pen for just using maces would be broken af? Why on earth would anyone run anything else in both PVE and PVP.

Yeah I did the math, for example:

If the mace passive said "ignores 50% of your targets armor" through my calculations it would ignore 100% armor,

However I applied that to a smaller value like major fracture and it didn't equal 8% so I'm still investigating it, but for the most part it makes sense especially for the major fracture part.

And btw I do like math but I'm not perfect nor do I say I'm perfect but I believe my math is somewhat correct.
Don't make assumptions unless you meant it as an insult.

leepalmer95

Anti_Virus wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

@Anti_Virus If you dont like maths use common sense. Dont you think 13k pen for just using maces would be broken af? Why on earth would anyone run anything else in both PVE and PVP.

Yeah I did the math, for example:

If the mace passive said "ignores 50% of your targets armor" through my calculations it would ignore 100% armor,

However I applied that to a smaller value like major fracture and it didn't equal 8% so I'm still investigating it, but for the most part it makes sense especially for the major fracture part.

And btw I do like math but I'm not perfect nor do I say I'm perfect but I believe my math is somewhat correct.
Don't make assumptions unless you meant it as an insult.

I figured out where your going wrong.

Your turning major fracture into a % and appling that % to a different number.

33000 = 50% dmg reduction
660 = 1% dmg reduction because 660/33000 X 100 is 1%.

Now for some reason your turning major fract 5280 which is 8% reduction and applying the 8% to a different number, your applying it to someones current number.

The 660 = 1% and 5280 = 8% are only those values because they apply to 33000 being 50%.

Stop changing the flat values in % mid way through the calculation.

You times the targets CURRENT armor by 0.2 to get how much 20% would take off.

25000 x 0.2 = 5000

You then take that away from 25000 so 20000


Now here is were you go wrong your times 25000 or 2000 by 0.08 the major fracture isn't 8% of 25000 or 20000 , it's 8% of the 33000 which is the maximun reduction available.

So don't change it. Keep every as flat values.

Minus every so 20000 - 5280 etc...


After you took everything away thats your capable of THEN you change it into a %.

That % is how much reduction of damage you have left after all the pen.

Do not take percent from percent. That is wrong maths.

pieratsos

Anti_Virus wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

@Anti_Virus If you dont like maths use common sense. Dont you think 13k pen for just using maces would be broken af? Why on earth would anyone run anything else in both PVE and PVP.

Yeah I did the math, for example:

If the mace passive said "ignores 50% of your targets armor" through my calculations it would ignore 100% armor,

However I applied that to a smaller value like major fracture and it didn't equal 8% so I'm still investigating it, but for the most part it makes sense especially for the major fracture part.

And btw I do like math but I'm not perfect nor do I say I'm perfect but I believe my math is somewhat correct.
Don't make assumptions unless you meant it as an insult.

Stop doing math like this is some sort of exam. Its a game and use common sense. I will give u few examples and if u still dont get it then maybe you should go back to the basics of the game.

1) Light armor doesnt even have 13k resistances and medium armor has something close to that. Do u actually believe that people would be ok with maces ignoring 100% of their resistances?

2) Bosses in PVE have 18-19k resistances. If using maces and a major debuff from the tank was enough to strip the bosses naked then why on earth the top PVE guild raids were running 2-3 different sets that give physical penetration and crushing enchants when they could just use maces?

3) 13k armor is 20% dmg mitigation. So maces would basically give 20% more dmg. Swords on the other hand give 5% more dmg. Does that even make sense to you in terms of balance?

4) Why would anyone run snb for dmg in PVP if maces were basically giving 20% more dmg.

5) Why would they hardcap dmg mitigation at 50% if u can just ignore 20% of it by using maces.

The tooltip says ignore 20% physical resistance. It doesnt say increases ur dmg by 20% or ignores 20% dmg mitigation. Again this is not about maths. This about knowing how the game works and using logic.

LegendaryMage

@leepalmer95 @Yiko @Anti_Virus you 3 need to go back to kindergarten and play math there together.

leepalmer95

LegendaryMage wrote: »

@leepalmer95 @Yiko @Anti_Virus you 3 need to go back to kindergarten and play math there together.

You should go back to high school, maybe develop some social skills.

Maybe people will like you then?