Heavy armor is not overpowered by any means.

Solidsnake993

Biro123 wrote: »

Its fine, really. Depends what you want to use it for - obviously its no good for group pve, or 1vx and not great for duelling - but for zerg v zerg its great. I run a duel-wield high burst build which doesn't mean constant crushing shock spam. When not bursting, the odd resto heavy attack (with the extra mag return passive from heavy) - and the odd dark exchange - along with a single cost reduce glyph is more than enough sustain. Constitution returns magicka AND stamina - which fuels dark exchange.

Also a single tri-pot and a few dark-exchanges quickly fills up an empty magicka bar.

And a high magicka pool gives enough juice to burst ppl down or survive when under pressure long enough to escape or for others to arrive..

I'd be lying if I said I didn't sometimes run dry - but its rare that it happens in a situation where I can't disengage and recover.

After about 5 abilities your resource pool would be drained down to nothing. You can't attack anyone because you would run out of magicka and you can't spam your shields too much (which you desperately need to). I think one crystal frag without cost reduction cost like 4.5k magicka.

I ran into a magicka sorcerer that had 36k health. I wrecked his arse so quickly because a) heavy armor provides the same exact protection as light armor. Do not argue that sharpened weapons can't cut through armor.b) he had absolutely no cost reduction so after about 4 shields he was in a heap of trouble. This was in Azura's star by the way. A place where nightblades are the real OG.

Anyone can zerg vs. zerg. That doesn't require skill, which is why I do not play PvP too often.

Solidsnake993

Asardes wrote: »

In conclusion medium is better than heavy for the majority of stamina builds. However I would agree that light is a bit weak right now. I think they should add or change something to make it more survivable, for example add a passive that improves damage shields, increasing their size and/or duration. Because magicka builds rely on shields for survival, the same way stamina builds rely on dodging.

They messed up when they made shields only last 6 seconds. I wish people would not have had such a fit over shield duration. Shield strength was reduced by 50% a long time ago and if you've never played a sorcerer then you would never know how difficult it is trying to keep shields up even with a good build.

Biro123

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

After about 5 abilities your resource pool would be drained down to nothing. You can't attack anyone because you would run out of magicka and you can't spam your shields too much (which you desperately need to). I think one crystal frag without cost reduction cost like 4.5k magicka.

Not true. As someone who doesn't use heavy on a magsorc, how can you tell someone who does how many abilities they can cast before running out?

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

a) heavy armor provides the same exact protection as light armor. Do not argue that sharpened weapons can't cut through armor.

I said almost exactly the same thing a few posts ago. Please don't put words into my mouth.

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

b) he had absolutely no cost reduction so after about 4 shields he was in a heap of trouble. This was in Azura's star by the way. A place where nightblades are the real OG.

Well then now I see where your attitude comes from.. Try it in a CP campaign where you can get plenty of cost reduction from CP and throw in a bit more from glyphs before throwing around your superior knowledge.

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

Anyone can zerg vs. zerg. That doesn't require skill, which is why I do not play PvP too often.

Ahh, and now comes the 'if you don't play my way, you're a scrub' comment.. Well done, you've just insulted over 80% of the pvp player base. Are you saying that those 80% should all run builds that are optimised for 1v1 and 1vX? or perhaps, just perhaps something suited to their playstyle would be better?

Solidsnake993

1) I know exactly how much it costs because all I have to do is go into azuras star and take all of my gear off. It makes no sense to wear heavy armor on a sorcerer because you have no sustain. There is no arguing this.

2) That is completely irrelevant. You and I both are on the same page about how little protection you get from wearing heavy armor so that just adds to my point.

3) You seriously don't get a huge amount of cost reduction from your CP. You make little to no sense when you say you can get more sustain with your CP in a different campaign. It is so dumb when I see a templar wearing black rose. You get a) No sustain and b) No cost reduction. You get 2000 more maximum stamina, so what? I hate to tell you that you are going to run out of Magicka fast as hell. Even with cost reduction your breath of life costs at least 3.5k (which mine does in heavy kagrinac's). With that said, a templar can get away with wearing heavy armor and still have sustain, but a sorcerer has absolutely no means of sustain. Dark deal gives back stamina. I hope you know that nobody even uses this ability. There's absolutely no point in playing a sorcerer in heavy armor because you have shields to protect yourself. Do you really want to deprive yourself of being able to sustain resources to cast shields? No offense but this is exactly how a scrub would think.

Your last point makes no sense. I never said you need to run best in slot in order to compete. Oh and you are the one telling me that you need to run best in slot because you argue that you should wear heavy armor. Your playstyle is a big sloppy mess because your build is not optimized to do anything. I play 3 classes: 1 Magicka Templar, 1 Magicka Sorcerer, 1 Stamina Nightblade.

I know a lot of players that are flawless conquerors and not a single one of them wear heavy armor on a Magicka Sorcerer. If you even suggest that to them they will label you a scrub.

Edit: With my sorcerer build I can get my resources to cost way less then what my recovery is.

Biro123

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

1) I know exactly how much it costs because all I have to do is go into azuras star and take all of my gear off. It makes no sense to wear heavy armor on a sorcerer because you have no sustain. There is no arguing this.

2) That is completely irrelevant. You and I both are on the same page about how little protection you get from wearing heavy armor so that just adds to my point.

3) You seriously don't get a huge amount of cost reduction from your CP. You make little to no sense when you say you can get more sustain with your CP in a different campaign. It is so dumb when I see a templar wearing black rose. You get a) No sustain and b) No cost reduction. You get 2000 more maximum stamina, so what? I hate to tell you that you are going to run out of Magicka fast as hell. Even with cost reduction your breath of life costs at least 3.5k (which mine does in heavy kagrinac's). With that said, a templar can get away with wearing heavy armor and still have sustain, but a sorcerer has absolutely no means of sustain. Dark deal gives back stamina. I hope you know that nobody even uses this ability. There's absolutely no point in playing a sorcerer in heavy armor because you have shields to protect yourself. Do you really want to deprive yourself of being able to sustain resources to cast shields? No offense but this is exactly how a scrub would think.
.

Wow, you really are quite abrasive... ok.. so looking at my stats right now with 5 heavy.. Frags costs 2958. Procced its half that.. how often do we use un-procced frags? Curse is 2124.. and fury is 1707.

I use very low recov - 791 - but get 930 mag AND stam from constitution. Ele drain on a target returns around another 400 per attack.. Altogether That's roughly 1100 back /second. Assuming one attack per second, the net cost is 900/second

A single heavy attack returns 3863. So if I do a heavy attack every 4-5 casts, I will not run out. If I don't, I have 45k magicka. Losing 900 per cast will take around 50 casts to run out. That's a long way from the 4 or 5 you say.

Of course that's best case when I'm being attacked to trigger constitution and using a mix of abilities rather than constant high casts.. When that's not the case, I will lose magicka.. but I have a 14k stam pool which can be used for the odd dark conversion (which is easy to do if not being attacked) or just add more heavy attacks... idk what more to say. I can read what my character sheet says and have acknowleged that in some instances I can run dry - but it is rare.

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

Your last point makes no sense. I never said you need to run best in slot in order to compete. Oh and you are the one telling me that you need to run best in slot because you argue that you should wear heavy armor. Your playstyle is a big sloppy mess because your build is not optimized to do anything. I play 3 classes: 1 Magicka Templar, 1 Magicka Sorcerer, 1 Stamina Nightblade.

I know a lot of players that are flawless conquerors and not a single one of them wear heavy armor on a Magicka Sorcerer. If you even suggest that to them they will label you a scrub.

Edit: With my sorcerer build I can get my resources to cost way less then what my recovery is.

I'm not arguing that anyone should wear heavy armour.. I just posted a comparison that between light and heavy of the same set - there isn't a lot in it. I don't see why you assume that I'm a heavy fanboy.. Simply put when I'm running with really low regen, you get less benefit from light and more from heavy since the regen boost from light is % based. With a more standard sustain build, you get more benefit from light. I'm actually arguing that they are fairly balanced.

You are the one who is saying that sorcs MUST wear light.. so again, please stop putting words in my mouth.

Solidsnake993

The constitution passive doesn't work because your shields prevent it and you are missing out on a heap of DPS. Your entire argument just falls apart when you talk about the constitution passive on a sorcerer.

Biro123

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

The constitution passive doesn't work because your shields prevent it and you are missing out on a heap of DPS. Your entire argument just falls apart when you talk about the constitution passive on a sorcerer.

I thought that until I tested it.

Solidsnake993

Biro123 wrote: »

I thought that until I tested it.

It does though. I had no knowledge whatsoever about you not getting resources back so I messaged a guy I know that already has 8 characters with flawless conqueror, he runs trials all the time, and he is a damn good 1vxer and dueler.

This is what he had to say
"Yeah some sorcs do that which is stupid cause the constitution passive won't work since they got shields up. It's stupid to run heavy on a sorc you miss out on a lot of dam and sustain"

That was probably your own recovery that you felt for yourself, or it was with your shields down. Shields only last 6 seconds so I guess you just got hit immediately after your shield went down. Your resources will not regenerate for as long as your shield is active with the constitution passive. I know this guy knows what he's talking about. It's not biased, instead it's more about math and real numbers.

Paraflex

Mag constitution recovery should not be in the game. Stam makes sense but it was overbuffed by allowing Mag Templars to sustain for ever using heavy.

leepalmer95

Paraflex wrote: »

Mag constitution recovery should not be in the game. Stam makes sense but it was overbuffed by allowing Mag Templars to sustain for ever using heavy.

Wait what?

Why isn't the magicka one allowed but the stam one is?

It should only give whichever of your stats is the highest not both.

Biro123

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

I thought that until I tested it.

It does though. I had no knowledge whatsoever about you not getting resources back so I messaged a guy I know that already has 8 characters with flawless conqueror, he runs trials all the time, and he is a damn good 1vxer and dueler.

This is what he had to say
"Yeah some sorcs do that which is stupid cause the constitution passive won't work since they got shields up. It's stupid to run heavy on a sorc you miss out on a lot of dam and sustain"

That was probably your own recovery that you felt for yourself, or it was with your shields down. Shields only last 6 seconds so I guess you just got hit immediately after your shield went down. Your resources will not regenerate for as long as your shield is active with the constitution passive. I know this guy knows what he's talking about. It's not biased, instead it's more about math and real numbers.

Whatever.. my addons tell me when I get stam and magicka back - whether from heavy attacks, constitution, passives, abilities etc. (like endless fury). I TESTED IT. This was not gut feeling. Its obvious you won't listen to anybody unless they have 'flawless conqueror' over their name.. Its your loss - carry on being wrong. I'm done with you.

Valencer

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

No, you wont end up with higher critical rating and weapon damage because when youre wearing heavy armour and properly playing that playstyle you can almost forget about investing into stamina regen and just do silly stuff like use The Thief mundus stone for more crit (gives more crit than 5 medium) and use mostly weapon damage glyphs, run around with barebones stam regen and still sustain fine.

What can you really get out of medium armour anymore? Roll dodge cost reduction. The problem with roll dodge is people are throwing around insane burst with the click of a button right now and you cant spam roll dodge very effectively so eventually you cant avoid that burst anymore. The most reliable defense right now is blocking, and guess what armour synergises really nicely with that? Yeah.

Again for the 100th time this is not a heavy armor issue this is a set issue that works to well with heavy armor. You seem to be confused with heavy armor as a type of gear and a set like blackrose. OP is trying to say heavy armor by its self is not over powered.

Yeah people have been saying that since dark brotherhood and it's still nonsense. It's not heavy armour, it's apparently just every armour set out there that you can use in conjunction with heavy armour. How long can people keep telling themselves that?

Heavy armour isnt just overpowered in its' current form, it's half the reason the game is as zergy as it is. everyone who isnt a mag sorc or bomber/ganker runs in heavy armour in a massive swarm from keep to keep. Nothing short of a bomb train can touch these people anymore because they can crush almost any opposition with sheer force of numbers, being incredibly hard to burst while not sacrificing much anymore. And burst is the only option we've had since they removed dynamic ulti

Having enhanced passive survival should be something you have to build around, not something you get handed to you on a silver platter so you can get away with really lousy play.

FloppyTouch

Valencer wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

No, you wont end up with higher critical rating and weapon damage because when youre wearing heavy armour and properly playing that playstyle you can almost forget about investing into stamina regen and just do silly stuff like use The Thief mundus stone for more crit (gives more crit than 5 medium) and use mostly weapon damage glyphs, run around with barebones stam regen and still sustain fine.

What can you really get out of medium armour anymore? Roll dodge cost reduction. The problem with roll dodge is people are throwing around insane burst with the click of a button right now and you cant spam roll dodge very effectively so eventually you cant avoid that burst anymore. The most reliable defense right now is blocking, and guess what armour synergises really nicely with that? Yeah.

Again for the 100th time this is not a heavy armor issue this is a set issue that works to well with heavy armor. You seem to be confused with heavy armor as a type of gear and a set like blackrose. OP is trying to say heavy armor by its self is not over powered.

Yeah people have been saying that since dark brotherhood and it's still nonsense. It's not heavy armour, it's apparently just every armour set out there that you can use in conjunction with heavy armour. How long can people keep telling themselves that?

Heavy armour isnt just overpowered in its' current form, it's half the reason the game is as zergy as it is. everyone who isnt a mag sorc or bomber/ganker runs in heavy armour in a massive swarm from keep to keep. Nothing short of a bomb train can touch these people anymore because they can crush almost any opposition with sheer force of numbers, being incredibly hard to burst while not sacrificing much anymore. And burst is the only option we've had since they removed dynamic ulti

Having enhanced passive survival should be something you have to build around, not something you get handed to you on a silver platter so you can get away with really lousy play.

Hard data from ZoS says ur wrong about everyone wearing heavy armor. Where is ur data that everyone is useing it if it's so OP? That's right you have none.

Yiko

OP knows many Flawless Conquerors and hits 10k incaps in Azura's. He is infallible.

lol

JDar

Probably has more to do with the fact that bad players are flocking to the FOTM builds and not playing them competently.

Solidsnake993

Biro123 wrote: »

Whatever.. my addons tell me when I get stam and magicka back - whether from heavy attacks, constitution, passives, abilities etc. (like endless fury). I TESTED IT. This was not gut feeling. Its obvious you won't listen to anybody unless they have 'flawless conqueror' over their name.. Its your loss - carry on being wrong. I'm done with you.

I will comment on you one last time by saying that I don't believe you with the cost reduction story. I have 100 points into magician and yet it only reduces the cost of my abilities by like 1000. Hell, that's my templar that I'm talking about with heavy armor on. On my sorcerer in light armor my main damage shield costs 2000 with the cost reduction, that's like 21% cost reduction and 100 points into magician. My dampen magicka costs over 3k and I don't think I can get it any lower than that with my CP and passives. A lot of my stuff costs a heap of magicka to cast and I need to be fast about casting things with animation cancelling to sustain resources, Yes you get 50% more resources back from heavy attacks however this is a big fat joke because you will be burning more resources then you will be restoring them. I never heavy attack with a resto because it takes way too long and during that time people will try to kill you.

What is the point in wearing heavy armor if you have damage shields to ignore your health bar and exactly how will you sustain your resources with your constitution passive/rapid mending passive?

The whole purpose of this thread was to prove a point that heavy armor is not overpowered. I have already listed why it is not as strong as everyone says it is. I got so sick and tired of people in guild chat talking about the constitution passive being really strong when in reality it really isn't. You mititgate 0 damage. If you are a nightblade wearing black rose then you need a serious reality check because you don't mitigate any damage. You have no miraculous difference in character performance because other players can cut right through your joke of a 16k physical and spell resistance. This is not a biased opinion. It is the truth, real numbers, not opinions. The rapid mending healing received passive is broken because in real numbers 8% more healing received would be far less then what it actually is. The wrath passive is complete garbage. You cannot by any means call this passive overpowered when you need to be hit 10 times to only have that weapon damage for 6 seconds.

You last slightly a few more seconds in PvP for your health bar and you lose a significant amount of sustain over your resources. The only people I can see wearing heavy armor is a dragonknight, and a templar because a templar is a paladin and a paladin is supposed to use heavy armor.

Ragnaroek93

I did not read the whole thread but saying that heavy armor is not overpowered is not true. The biggest problem is that you can sustain with 800 regen as Redguard, Unchained and heavy armor and stack everything into dmg which makes you incredible tanky and heals your for insane amounts at the same time.
I don't know why people bash constituion passive, it's not that strong in my opinion, the reason why heavy armor is overpowered is the passive that gives you 50% more ressources back on heavy attacks and that it gives overall more (for pvp) usefull stats than medium or light armor.

I've played with both, heavy armor and medium and heavy almost outperforms medium armor in any way. Yes, I have huge dmg in medium armor, but I'm a walking onehit with medium armor. Why should I go medium armor, if I can also go heavy, deal the same dmg because need to care less about sustain and become also unkillable with vit pots? Just try to duel and switch between medium armor and heavy armor. That's a difference like day and night.

Edit: Please don't compare heavy armor with ganking in medium armor. Ganking is a broken mechanic that also needs to rebalanced as fast as possible and to be honest here, I don't need a gank build or medium armor to gank. I can also gank people with my heavy armor, probably not as fast, but most people wont have a chance to deal with that too.

Solidsnake993

Yiko wrote: »

OP knows many Flawless Conquerors and hits 10k incaps in Azura's. He is infallible.

lol

I am in a guild called Biohazard on PS4 NA and it is one of the biggest trial guilds on this platform for NA. I know many people that are flawless conqueror in this guild. He is the one who invited me to the guild. Also it is possible to hit 10k incaps in Azura's Star because you have no damage mitigation from hardy, and even without points into mighty I still hit pretty hard because like I said you have no damage mitigation. I heard of an emperor that hit a 14k incap on a guy without impenetrable in that campaign. It is very possible.

Ganj

Paraflex wrote: »

Mag constitution recovery should not be in the game. Stam makes sense but it was overbuffed by allowing Mag Templars to sustain for ever using heavy.

This one, i mean.. Wow!

Yiko

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

Yiko wrote: »

OP knows many Flawless Conquerors and hits 10k incaps in Azura's. He is infallible.

lol

I am in a guild called Biohazard on PS4 NA and it is one of the biggest trial guilds on this platform for NA. I know many people that are flawless conqueror in this guild. He is the one who invited me to the guild. Also it is possible to hit 10k incaps in Azura's Star because you have no damage mitigation from hardy, and even without points into mighty I still hit pretty hard because like I said you have no damage mitigation. I heard of an emperor that hit a 14k incap on a guy without impenetrable in that campaign. It is very possible.

I wasn't doubting you. I'm just saying that it's hilarious that you provide those as qualifications for your proof in this thread that Heavy Armor is not op.

I'm going to be honest with you. You adamantly insisting that Hzarn (the 60k health templar) was killed by 1 person (Sribes) in 1 second, estimating his stats, being terribly wrong, and him making 3 posts for you to actually understand he is the one in the video .. It doesn't look good.

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

Synozeer wrote: »

I'm the 60k guy he ganks, and it's actually 2 people ganking me at the same time, not just Sribes...

Yes he had someone else there with him but the other guy did not attack him with him. He killed him in one second. I read what you said. You don't seem to get my point however.

Here is the logic 1)He had 60k health 2)He probably had around 30k physical resistance. I know a guy that built a tank with 40k physical resistance so it's probably even higher. 3)He obviously had impenetrable on his character because if he didn't have impenetrable then his damage intake would have been significantly higher.

Neither does something like this:

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

Panth141 wrote: »

As noted above, Constitution is not at all negligible. The max health passive helps, too.

That's not the constitution passive that gives you max health. Go back and read the heavy armor passives again. It's the juggernaut passive. Just wanted to clarify that.

The guy very obviously understands that the max health passive is separate from the Constitution passive, so you don't have to tell him to go back and read the passives again.

These 3 things are just easy examples from this thread demonstrating how you have terrible reading comprehension skills.

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

The paragraph is not about me complaining heavy armor is weak. You are missing the point, yes it is weak first off because you can't handle the damage, and second I will only say it one last time when I say that the constitution passives is not sustain which means it is garbage. I don;t understand why you are so convinced that I would not do the same amount of damage on you if you were wearing light armor or heavy armor. Stamina dragonknight undoubtedly has to wear heavy armor because that is your class role. My point is that I can still kill you even while you are wearing heavy armor, hence the title of this post. Read the title of this post just one more time.

There's so many things wrong here.
I'll start with the difference between heavy and light/medium. I have 25,629 resists when I use a Shadow Ability (Surprise Attack, Mass Hysteria, Dark Cloak). Major Breach/Fracture is applied before flat penetration, so if you're using a 2h Maul & I have Major Fracture on me, I'll still have 16,279 physical resist before flat penetration is applied. With Spriggans (4k pen) and 40 CP in Piercing (2290 pen), and even 1piece Kra'gh (1935 pen), that leaves me with 8,054 physical pen. Even if I WASN'T using a Shadow Ability for the Shadow Barrier passive, I would still have 2774 physical resist. You know how much medium or light armor would have? Zero, but most people don't run Kra'gh or have 40 CP into Piercing anyways.

Where's your math?

Constitution passive is garbage? How 650-780 mag+stam regen in a 5-6 heavy setup can be dismissed as garbage is baffling. It shows how you have no understanding of stat value. It's basically a free drink.
Where Stamina builds have to sacrifice stats elsewhere to gain magicka recovery (for utility spells), Heavy armor makes no meaningful sacrifices. Stamina builds have to give up stats to reach a certain level of health in PVP so as to not get bursted by procs or something similar. Heavy armor users get 10%+ max health, and the remaining stats go to damage.

Basically, Heavy Armor users have no problem sustaining bare-bones, and even if they do, regen can be added. They get so much stat value in magicka recovery and max health that the remainder of their stats go to damage, to the point that if you were to try to match the magicka recovery and get close to the max health of a heavy armor build WHILE ON A MEDIUM ARMOR BUILD, you would clearly see why heavy armor is better. If you're arguing that only damage matters, and max health + magicka recovery are irrelevant to medium armor builds, you're a zergling, a pug, or a ganker.

At this point, I also think you're either trolling or a little slow.

Anti_Virus

Valencer wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

No, you wont end up with higher critical rating and weapon damage because when youre wearing heavy armour and properly playing that playstyle you can almost forget about investing into stamina regen and just do silly stuff like use The Thief mundus stone for more crit (gives more crit than 5 medium) and use mostly weapon damage glyphs, run around with barebones stam regen and still sustain fine.

What can you really get out of medium armour anymore? Roll dodge cost reduction. The problem with roll dodge is people are throwing around insane burst with the click of a button right now and you cant spam roll dodge very effectively so eventually you cant avoid that burst anymore. The most reliable defense right now is blocking, and guess what armour synergises really nicely with that? Yeah.

Again for the 100th time this is not a heavy armor issue this is a set issue that works to well with heavy armor. You seem to be confused with heavy armor as a type of gear and a set like blackrose. OP is trying to say heavy armor by its self is not over powered.

Yeah people have been saying that since dark brotherhood and it's still nonsense. It's not heavy armour, it's apparently just every armour set out there that you can use in conjunction with heavy armour. How long can people keep telling themselves that?

Heavy armour isnt just overpowered in its' current form, it's half the reason the game is as zergy as it is. everyone who isnt a mag sorc or bomber/ganker runs in heavy armour in a massive swarm from keep to keep. Nothing short of a bomb train can touch these people anymore because they can crush almost any opposition with sheer force of numbers, being incredibly hard to burst while not sacrificing much anymore. And burst is the only option we've had since they removed dynamic ulti

Having enhanced passive survival should be something you have to build around, not something you get handed to you on a silver platter so you can get away with really lousy play.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/3370532#Comment_3370532

Nuff said.

Anti_Virus

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I did not read the whole thread but saying that heavy armor is not overpowered is not true. The biggest problem is that you can sustain with 800 regen as Redguard, Unchained and heavy armor and stack everything into dmg which makes you incredible tanky and heals your for insane amounts at the same time.
I don't know why people bash constituion passive, it's not that strong in my opinion, the reason why heavy armor is overpowered is the passive that gives you 50% more ressources back on heavy attacks and that it gives overall more (for pvp) usefull stats than medium or light armor.

I've played with both, heavy armor and medium and heavy almost outperforms medium armor in any way. Yes, I have huge dmg in medium armor, but I'm a walking onehit with medium armor. Why should I go medium armor, if I can also go heavy, deal the same dmg because need to care less about sustain and become also unkillable with vit pots? Just try to duel and switch between medium armor and heavy armor. That's a difference like day and night.

Edit: Please don't compare heavy armor with ganking in medium armor. Ganking is a broken mechanic that also needs to rebalanced as fast as possible and to be honest here, I don't need a gank build or medium armor to gank. I can also gank people with my heavy armor, probably not as fast, but most people wont have a chance to deal with that too.

I guarantee you if you had to waste 1-2 secs to heavy attack a couple of times to drop block you will be instagibed by a nightblade proc set or RD spam.


Magicka builds on the other hand can heavy attack from the safety of range.

[Edit]

Imo Medium is better.

Cost reduction>>>>> regen I have a medium armor DK and I preform way better than heavy,

-my skills cost 21%
- I have excellent dmg
- I can roll dodge more
- don't ever need to heavy attack
- have an awesome defense skill(shuffle)

Anti_Virus

@Yiko

Here's a penetration calculation:

The average heavy armor build has 25K( 37.9%) resistance you can penetrate all of it making heavy armor users naked.
[Edit] values are based of off stamina based builds I don't want to make the post to long by including magicka pen calculations.

Major fracture: 5280(8%)
Minor fracture: 1320 (2%)
Sharpened: 5280 (8%)
Maces be it DW or 2H: 13200 (20%)
Spriggins: about 4620 (7%)
Kra'gs: about 2000 (3.1%)

5280+5280+1320+13200+4620+2000= 31556 possible physical penetration which is the equivalent in percentage to 47.8% resistance ignored.

Constitution is bad you don't understand math.
Cost reduction>>>>> regen.

Go out in full heavy with no cost reduction and see how long you can "infinitely sustain" when your average skill cost over 2K.

Spending 2K plus resources each sec when your recovry is less than 600 ( which tick each TWO seconds) and lets say you have black rose which adds 2K each 4 secs( 1K each two secs your stamina deficit would be:

2K+ cost per second with skills while regen is 500 per 2 secs so. 1500 stamina loss per sec then factor in constitution each for secs.

1500 x 4= 6000 stamina loss and constitution will give ( with blk rose) 2000 stam back.

6000-2000= 4000 stamina deficit


TL:DR

So to wrap this up, your theredocal "regen" would be about 1500 stam regen with full heavy black rose
But you'll still be at a stamina deficit of 500+ not calculating break free and block you Cannot infinitely sustain in heavy.

What makes these heavy builds seem to sustain "infinitely" is DK passives, battle roar + helping hands is where is comes from. If that was the case don't you think NB would be wearing heavy armor too? What about sorcs?

leepalmer95

Anti_Virus wrote: »

@Yiko

Here's a penetration calculation:

The average heavy armor build has 25K( 37.9%) resistance you can penetrate all of it making heavy armor users naked.
[Edit] values are based of off stamina based builds I don't want to make the post to long by including magicka pen calculations.

Major fracture: 5280(8%)
Minor fracture: 1320 (2%)
Sharpened: 5280 (8%)
Maces be it DE or 2H: 132000 (20%)
Spriggins: about 4620 (7%)
Kra'gs: about 2000 (3.1%)

5280+5280+1320+13200+4620+2000= 31556 possible physical penetration which is the equivalent in percentage to 47.8% resistance ignored.

Constitution is bad you don't understand math.
Cost reduction>>>>> regen.

Go out in full heavy with no cost reduction and see how long you can "infinitely sustain" when your average skill cost over 2K.

Spending 2K plus resources each sec when your recovry is less than 600 ( which tick each TWO seconds) and lets say you have black rose which adds 2K each 4 secs( 1K each two secs your stamina deficit would be:

2K+ cost per second with skills while regen is 500 per 2 secs so. 1500 stamina loss per sec then factor in constitution each for secs.

1500 x 4= 6000 stamina loss and constitution will give ( with blk rose) 2000 stam back.

6000-2000= 4000 stamina deficit


TL:DR

So to wrap this up, your theredocal "regen" would be about 1500 stam regen with full heavy black rose
But you'll still be at a stamina deficit of 500+ not calculating break free and block you Cannot infinitely sustain in heavy.

What makes these heavy builds seem to sustain "infinitely" is DK passives, battle roar + helping hands is where is comes from. If that was the cast don't you think NB would be wearing heavy armor too? What about sorcs?

Why is mace 13200?
Why is spriggans 4620... it's 4k all gold.
Realistically is a build really going to run all of that.

I love how you tell someone they don't understand maths when your calculations and numbers are way off.

Yiko

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Here's a penetration calculation:

The average heavy armor build has 25K( 37.9%) resistance you can penetrate all of it making heavy armor users naked.
[Edit] values are based of off stamina based builds I don't want to make the post to long by including magicka pen calculations.

Major fracture: 5280(8%)
Minor fracture: 1320 (2%)
Sharpened: 5280 (8%)
Maces be it DE or 2H: 132000 (20%)
Spriggins: about 4620 (7%)
Kra'gs: about 2000 (3.1%)

5280+5280+1320+13200+4620+2000= 31556 possible physical penetration which is the equivalent in percentage to 47.8% resistance ignored.

Spriggans is 4000 in gold, Kra'ghs is 1935 in gold.
Maces don't penetrate 13,200. 13,200 is 20% of 66,000 physical resists.
Your math & numbers are wrong. Straight up. You're making up numbers, and then telling me I don't understand math?
I didn't account for minor fracture in my post because I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to run that much armor pen in a build. Heals will suffer, and you'll do very little damage to shield users.

Anti_Virus wrote: »

TL:DR

So to wrap this up, your theredocal "regen" would be about 1500 stam regen with full heavy black rose
But you'll still be at a stamina deficit of 500+ not calculating break free and block you Cannot infinitely sustain in heavy.

What makes these heavy builds seem to sustain "infinitely" is DK passives, battle roar + helping hands is where is comes from. If that was the cast don't you think NB would be wearing heavy armor too? What about sorcs?

My "theredocal" regen .. Who said I wasn't running cost reduction enchants or regen enchants or a drink? I also run Siphoning Attacks, which helps with sustain. Heavy armor provides more value than medium. Every good stam sorc runs heavy armor right now because of Dark Deal on top of Constitution. Non-gank NBs also run heavy armor. If you're on PC NA, I can show you what that's like.

TL:DR You and OP are subhuman

Anti_Virus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

@Yiko

Here's a penetration calculation:

The average heavy armor build has 25K( 37.9%) resistance you can penetrate all of it making heavy armor users naked.
[Edit] values are based of off stamina based builds I don't want to make the post to long by including magicka pen calculations.

Major fracture: 5280(8%)
Minor fracture: 1320 (2%)
Sharpened: 5280 (8%)
Maces be it DE or 2H: 132000 (20%)
Spriggins: about 4620 (7%)
Kra'gs: about 2000 (3.1%)

5280+5280+1320+13200+4620+2000= 31556 possible physical penetration which is the equivalent in percentage to 47.8% resistance ignored.

Constitution is bad you don't understand math.
Cost reduction>>>>> regen.

Go out in full heavy with no cost reduction and see how long you can "infinitely sustain" when your average skill cost over 2K.

Spending 2K plus resources each sec when your recovry is less than 600 ( which tick each TWO seconds) and lets say you have black rose which adds 2K each 4 secs( 1K each two secs your stamina deficit would be:

2K+ cost per second with skills while regen is 500 per 2 secs so. 1500 stamina loss per sec then factor in constitution each for secs.

1500 x 4= 6000 stamina loss and constitution will give ( with blk rose) 2000 stam back.

6000-2000= 4000 stamina deficit


TL:DR

So to wrap this up, your theredocal "regen" would be about 1500 stam regen with full heavy black rose
But you'll still be at a stamina deficit of 500+ not calculating break free and block you Cannot infinitely sustain in heavy.

What makes these heavy builds seem to sustain "infinitely" is DK passives, battle roar + helping hands is where is comes from. If that was the cast don't you think NB would be wearing heavy armor too? What about sorcs?

Why is mace 13200?
Why is spriggans 4620... it's 4k all gold.
Realistically is a build really going to run all of that.

6600 pen is 10% multiply that by two and you get 13200.

And I was somewhat close with Spriggins 4K pen is 6.1% physical pen.

Also its not practical to run that much pen, but you all complain that heavy has soo much resistance when you have all the resources to ignore it completely.

Yiko

Anti_Virus wrote: »

6600 pen is 10% multiply that by two and you get 132000.

And I was somewhat close with Spriggins 4K pen is 6.1% physical pen.

Also its not practical to run that much pen, but you all complain that heavy has soo much resistance when you have all the resources to ignore it completely.

lolllllll
"Maces cause your attacks to ignore 20% of your target's Physical Resistance."
If I have 26,600 physical resistance & am hit with Major Fracture and Minor Fracture, I'll be taken down to 20,000 Physical Resistance. If Maul 20% armor penetration is applied after Fractures, then that would be 20% of 20,000 which would be 4,000 physical penetration, leaving me at 16,000 Physical Resistance before flat penetration calcs. If Maul 20% is applied BEFORE Fractures, then 20% of 26,600 is 5320 physical penetration from maul, and the another 6600 from Fractures = 14,680 physical resistance left. Neither of these calculations are anywhere close to 13,200 penetration from Maul alone. You fundamentally don't understand this AT ALL, and you say I don't understand math? You're helpless

leepalmer95

Anti_Virus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

@Yiko

Here's a penetration calculation:

The average heavy armor build has 25K( 37.9%) resistance you can penetrate all of it making heavy armor users naked.
[Edit] values are based of off stamina based builds I don't want to make the post to long by including magicka pen calculations.

Major fracture: 5280(8%)
Minor fracture: 1320 (2%)
Sharpened: 5280 (8%)
Maces be it DE or 2H: 132000 (20%)
Spriggins: about 4620 (7%)
Kra'gs: about 2000 (3.1%)

5280+5280+1320+13200+4620+2000= 31556 possible physical penetration which is the equivalent in percentage to 47.8% resistance ignored.

Constitution is bad you don't understand math.
Cost reduction>>>>> regen.

Go out in full heavy with no cost reduction and see how long you can "infinitely sustain" when your average skill cost over 2K.

Spending 2K plus resources each sec when your recovry is less than 600 ( which tick each TWO seconds) and lets say you have black rose which adds 2K each 4 secs( 1K each two secs your stamina deficit would be:

2K+ cost per second with skills while regen is 500 per 2 secs so. 1500 stamina loss per sec then factor in constitution each for secs.

1500 x 4= 6000 stamina loss and constitution will give ( with blk rose) 2000 stam back.

6000-2000= 4000 stamina deficit


TL:DR

So to wrap this up, your theredocal "regen" would be about 1500 stam regen with full heavy black rose
But you'll still be at a stamina deficit of 500+ not calculating break free and block you Cannot infinitely sustain in heavy.

What makes these heavy builds seem to sustain "infinitely" is DK passives, battle roar + helping hands is where is comes from. If that was the cast don't you think NB would be wearing heavy armor too? What about sorcs?

Why is mace 13200?
Why is spriggans 4620... it's 4k all gold.
Realistically is a build really going to run all of that.

6600 pen is 10% multiply that by two and you get 132000.

And I was somewhat close with Spriggins 4K pen is 6.1% physical pen.

Also its not practical to run that much pen, but you all complain that heavy has soo much resistance when you have all the resources to ignore it completely.

Ok so it seems you really don't have any idea what your talking about, if your going to defend something at least so some basic knowledge.

The 2h mace passive doesn't just ignore 20% of the max resistance... It's 20% of the targets CURRENT armor, it's also first in the calculation.

So 25k.

5000 from mace.
5280 from sharpened
5280 from major fracture (assuming they have this)
1320 from minor fracture (assuming they have this)
4000 from spriggans (assuming they have this)
1935 from Kra'gh (Assuming they have this, again your numbers were off....)

= 22,815.

So no they wouldn't penetrate everything even if they did for some reason run a pure penetration set up and gimp themselves so much again light/medium and shields.

No one would use kra'gh, usually a 2x monster set proc or 2x weapon damage or a 1 piece for 1/5/5

Only stamblade has access to major fracture easily, the only other way is dk's breath which wouldn't be used or be up most of the time or ransack which is a s&b which is usually on heavy builds.

Spriggans , viper is just better.

Minor fracture - Not many classes have access to it and even then most don't use it, it can be an enchant but there are just simply better enchants as well as poisons.

Anything else?

leepalmer95

Yiko wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

6600 pen is 10% multiply that by two and you get 132000.

And I was somewhat close with Spriggins 4K pen is 6.1% physical pen.

Also its not practical to run that much pen, but you all complain that heavy has soo much resistance when you have all the resources to ignore it completely.

lolllllll
"Maces cause your attacks to ignore 20% of your target's Physical Resistance."
If I have 26,600 physical resistance & am hit with Major Fracture and Minor Fracture, I'll be taken down to 20,000 Physical Resistance. If Maul 20% armor penetration is applied after Fractures, then that would be 20% of 20,000 which would be 4,000 physical penetration, leaving me at 16,000 Physical Resistance before flat penetration calcs. You fundamentally don't understand this AT ALL, and you say I don't understand math? You're helpless

Don't you just love it when people get involved and write paragraphs about things they don't understand.

Man i love this forum some times.

Anti_Virus

Yiko wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

6600 pen is 10% multiply that by two and you get 132000.

And I was somewhat close with Spriggins 4K pen is 6.1% physical pen.

Also its not practical to run that much pen, but you all complain that heavy has soo much resistance when you have all the resources to ignore it completely.

lolllllll
"Maces cause your attacks to ignore 20% of your target's Physical Resistance."
If I have 26,600 physical resistance & am hit with Major Fracture and Minor Fracture, I'll be taken down to 20,000 Physical Resistance. If Maul 20% armor penetration is applied after Fractures, then that would be 20% of 20,000 which would be 4,000 physical penetration. You fundamentally don't understand this AT ALL, and you say I don't understand math? You're helpless

Fail.

4000 is (6.1%) pen, I knew you would say that lol.

Don't you remember math? You have to divide like values. You can't divide a fraction by a percentage until you convert it to a percent.

26,600 (40.4% resistance) - 5820 major fracture( 8% pen) - 1320 minor fracture (2%) - 13200 two maces or one maul( 20%)= 6800 physical pen (10.3% resistance).

In numbers 40.4 physical resistance % - 30 physical pen%= 10.3 (10.4% rounded up).

Math fail on you lol.

[Edit]

660 physical or spell resistance/ pen is 1% if you know math and unit ratio you should be able to figure it out eventually.