Heavy armor is not overpowered by any means.

Xsorus

Heavy armor isn't overpowered; go run without a proc set and a heavy armor build and see how well you do.

Jsmalls

Heavy armor isn't overpowered. Black rose and proc sets in combination with heavy armor is.

Health, stamina, stamina, weapon damage AND roughly 250 recovery of each stat...

That's OP, that gives you everything you could ask for in 1, 5 pc set. Then you have the freedom of tailoring your other 6 to 7 pieces to whatever else you want because you already have everything else. Usually proc sets that amplify your damage unbased on your weapon damage stat.

Okay mathmatically heavy armor is kinda OP as well. Assuming 5, 1, 1,10% more health, a significant amount more resistance, 50% more on heavy attacks, 8% more healing taken, and 200 weapon/spell damage? That's a lot... And you could still get 2/5 of reduction or recovery passives if you chose. So in actuality you're sacrificing either 12% weapon damage (if you account for wrath more like 4%) and roll Dodge cost reduction, and x% crit. Or... 5k spell pen (around 3k if you account for wrath) and 10% crit.

Think heavy takes the cake. And whatever platter the cake was sitting on.

Armitas

There is nothing inherently OP about it. The only way it becomes OP is the way power is transferred from a medium stam build to a HA stambuild. That is because almost all the power comes from the penetration passive from weapons which carries over completely to heavy armor. Then you have a person in Heavy armor with the equivalent of 18480 penetration simply by default of choosing a physical damage weapon. That is an incomparable advantage to a magicka build in the same HA set.

edit value is relative and typically far less according to thread development. With realistic penetration it's about ~15,690 at 30%mit and ~17,690 at 45.5% mit. (using 1250from CP and a breach) Compare that to penetration from a magicka build.

Solidsnake993

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Just reading this feedback, im not even going to bother responding, your numbers are off, constitution is garage?, any dmg procs wraith including dots..

You using resource poisons as an example... like really? No matter what build you run those resource poisons will break it.

Heavy stamplar works, just not solo.

9k pen with 25k armor is 11k armor left which is like 17% reduction.

Compare to medium which would be around what? 17k? armor.

Your video is also useless, that empress is just bad, like really bad, no buffs, no purge, no cc, etc... They can't even sustain stamina as well so no sturdy, no tri pots etc...

If they was even a half decent player the nb would of died instantly.

Heavy armor stamplar does not work because they have no sustain. Anybody can play in a group and not really worry about relying on themselves so I don't understand what your point is.

I used poisons as an example however what if I told you that I do not use poisons? I don't believe in using them because they are too strong.

Talk to me some more about how heavy armor makes you mitigate damage. I can crit incaps in Azura's star for 10k on people with 20k resistance and all impenetrable golden gear. Stop talking about you mitigating damage because you aren't mitigating anything. I don't even run with high weapon damage and all I have is my sharpened maul yet I can still hit for high amounts on heavy armor users without my cp. I know they are wearing impenetrable because I crafted my friend heavy kagrinac's in all impenetrable then I dueled him in that campaign, my incap hits for 10k, my surprise attack hits for 6k, my killers blade hits for 10k. I don't understand why I am hitting for such high amounts without my CP on heavy armor users.

The constitution passive is garbage. Stop wasting your time trying to convince me that it isn't because I am the one with the high cost reduction and high recovery and you aren't. You are basically a glass cannon because your armor doesn't even exist.

Sarru

I'm a DK with 5xblack rose (impenetrable)+5xHulking Draugr+Tremorscale and i have only 20k spell resist and 17k physical resist... I just wanted to say that my heavy armor allows me to live a few seconds more thats all. Almost all the time i have to go defencive couse i'm the target who gets first strike. Also I can say that endless roll-dodge is the best save in game (except NB and Sorc skills), so medium armor users, pls, be quiet and enjoy your numbers.

leepalmer95

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Just reading this feedback, im not even going to bother responding, your numbers are off, constitution is garage?, any dmg procs wraith including dots..

You using resource poisons as an example... like really? No matter what build you run those resource poisons will break it.

Heavy stamplar works, just not solo.

9k pen with 25k armor is 11k armor left which is like 17% reduction.

Compare to medium which would be around what? 17k? armor.

Your video is also useless, that empress is just bad, like really bad, no buffs, no purge, no cc, etc... They can't even sustain stamina as well so no sturdy, no tri pots etc...

If they was even a half decent player the nb would of died instantly.

Heavy armor stamplar does not work because they have no sustain. Anybody can play in a group and not really worry about relying on themselves so I don't understand what your point is.

I used poisons as an example however what if I told you that I do not use poisons? I don't believe in using them because they are too strong.

Talk to me some more about how heavy armor makes you mitigate damage. I can crit incaps in Azura's star for 10k on people with 20k resistance and all impenetrable golden gear. Stop talking about you mitigating damage because you aren't mitigating anything. I don't even run with high weapon damage and all I have is my sharpened maul yet I can still hit for high amounts on heavy armor users without my cp. I know they are wearing impenetrable because I crafted my friend heavy kagrinac's in all impenetrable then I dueled him in that campaign, my incap hits for 10k, my surprise attack hits for 6k, my killers blade hits for 10k. I don't understand why I am hitting for such high amounts without my CP on heavy armor users.

The constitution passive is garbage. Stop wasting your time trying to convince me that it isn't because I am the one with the high cost reduction and high recovery and you aren't. You are basically a glass cannon because your armor doesn't even exist.

Half that paragraph is you crying that heavy isn't good because you can penetrate it all easily. Which you can't.

This isn't even a discussion, this is me using maths to explain a point and you ust spitting your dummy and crying no it isn't.

Where is your evidence constitution is bad? All i see if you making up random numbers from dueling your 'friend'.

What platform do you play? Pls say ps4 eu so i can 1 hit you with my heavy dk?

Anti_Virus

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

1500 resources every 4 seconds is the equivalent of 750 magicka and stamina recovery without black rose... that is garbage? Wut?

Haven't seen the sribes video yet but "wrecked the hell out of everyone that was possibly wearing heavy armor"...? Again, wut? Maybe they weren't wearing heavy armor...

Speculating that this 60k health guy had 30k resistances is a big (and probably incorrect) assumption. While we are at it I am going to assume said player was also wearing no impen (again, I haven't seen the video). Because one player who is one of the best at dealing insane burst damage cut through some heavy armor does not say anything about how it compares to medium and light. He just would have had a much easier time killing a light/medium armor user.

If the wrath passive is so garbage then lets just remove it and replace it with something more defensive in line with heavy armor.I understand resource management but there is no reason heavy armor should be giving ANY kind of offensive bonus.

There is certainly a place for light armor (shields) and medium armor. I run medium armor on my stamplar because I think it is a more fun play style with more mobility. However heavy armor is still OP in the current state.

Wrong and i'll explain why...

Constitution requires you to get hit and only procs every 4 secs, while medium and light give a passive recovery active all the time. In addtion they both give COST reduction which is infinitely superior to regen.

I agree remove the wrath pasive is doen't make a difference to me I would like my 20% block cost back.
200WD or SD is inferior to 12 PERCENT of your WD from medium and even that is inferior to LA Spell pen.

Also if heavy was just forced to be defensive then what do you think heavy armor users would do? They would all be block tanks which people like you would still cry about. Heavy armor has been neglected until the Dark Brotherhood patch and now that its useful you want to see it destroyed again.

You're right LA has a place in cyrodil which is why the majority of pvpers wear LA, this claim is backed by @ZOS_RichLambert himself who release a chart with data proving that 501+ CP players wear mostly Light armor with medium being the second popular and heavy the last.
I'll link the thread where he posted the chart lest he doen't come here an post.

If you believe heavy armor is OP that fine it's your opinion you are entitled to one, but to claim that opinion as fact if pure dogmatism.

[Edit]

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/3370532#Comment_3370532

Anti_Virus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Just reading this feedback, im not even going to bother responding, your numbers are off, constitution is garage?, any dmg procs wraith including dots..

You using resource poisons as an example... like really? No matter what build you run those resource poisons will break it.

Heavy stamplar works, just not solo.

9k pen with 25k armor is 11k armor left which is like 17% reduction.

Compare to medium which would be around what? 17k? armor.

Your video is also useless, that empress is just bad, like really bad, no buffs, no purge, no cc, etc... They can't even sustain stamina as well so no sturdy, no tri pots etc...

If they was even a half decent player the nb would of died instantly.

Heavy armor stamplar does not work because they have no sustain. Anybody can play in a group and not really worry about relying on themselves so I don't understand what your point is.

I used poisons as an example however what if I told you that I do not use poisons? I don't believe in using them because they are too strong.

Talk to me some more about how heavy armor makes you mitigate damage. I can crit incaps in Azura's star for 10k on people with 20k resistance and all impenetrable golden gear. Stop talking about you mitigating damage because you aren't mitigating anything. I don't even run with high weapon damage and all I have is my sharpened maul yet I can still hit for high amounts on heavy armor users without my cp. I know they are wearing impenetrable because I crafted my friend heavy kagrinac's in all impenetrable then I dueled him in that campaign, my incap hits for 10k, my surprise attack hits for 6k, my killers blade hits for 10k. I don't understand why I am hitting for such high amounts without my CP on heavy armor users.

The constitution passive is garbage. Stop wasting your time trying to convince me that it isn't because I am the one with the high cost reduction and high recovery and you aren't. You are basically a glass cannon because your armor doesn't even exist.

Half that paragraph is you crying that heavy isn't good because you can penetrate it all easily. Which you can't.

This isn't even a discussion, this is me using maths to explain a point and you ust spitting your dummy and crying no it isn't.

Where is your evidence constitution is bad? All i see if you making up random numbers from dueling your 'friend'.

What platform do you play? Pls say ps4 eu so i can 1 hit you with my heavy dk?

Yes you can penetrate almost all of heavy armor resistances, do I need to run another calculation for you here?

thankyourat

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

1500 resources every 4 seconds is the equivalent of 750 magicka and stamina recovery without black rose... that is garbage? Wut?

Haven't seen the sribes video yet but "wrecked the hell out of everyone that was possibly wearing heavy armor"...? Again, wut? Maybe they weren't wearing heavy armor...

Speculating that this 60k health guy had 30k resistances is a big (and probably incorrect) assumption. While we are at it I am going to assume said player was also wearing no impen (again, I haven't seen the video). Because one player who is one of the best at dealing insane burst damage cut through some heavy armor does not say anything about how it compares to medium and light. He just would have had a much easier time killing a light/medium armor user.

If the wrath passive is so garbage then lets just remove it and replace it with something more defensive in line with heavy armor.I understand resource management but there is no reason heavy armor should be giving ANY kind of offensive bonus.

There is certainly a place for light armor (shields) and medium armor. I run medium armor on my stamplar because I think it is a more fun play style with more mobility. However heavy armor is still OP in the current state.

Wrong and i'll explain why...

Constitution requires you to get hit and only procs every 4 secs, while medium and light give a passive recovery active all the time. In addtion they both give COST reduction which is infinitely superior to regen.

I agree remove the wrath pasive is doen't make a difference to me I would like my 20% block cost back.
200WD or SD is inferior to 12 PERCENT of your WD from medium and even that is inferior to LA Spell pen.

Also if heavy was just forced to be defensive then what do you think heavy armor users would do? They would all be block tanks which people like you would still cry about. Heavy armor has beem neglected until the Dark Brotherhood patch and now that its useful you want to see it destroyed again.

You're right LA has a place in cyrodil which is why the majority of pvpers wear LA, this claim is backed by @ZOS_RichLambert himself who release a chart with data proving that 501+ CP players wear mostly Light armor with medium being the second popular and heavy the last.
I'll link the thread where he posted the chart lest he doen't come here an post.

If you believe heavy armor is OP that fine it's your opinion you are entitled to one, but to claim that opinion as fact if pure dogmatism.

[Edit]

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/3370532#Comment_3370532

Yea but with heavy it's filling up both resources so it's like using drink but you can use max food. if I use heavy armor I can sustain just fine with only 1100 regen, if I go light I need atleast 1700 and if I use a medium armor build I usually run close to 2000. Also the damage mitigation from heavy armor is really good. I don't think it's OP I think its just starting to become mandatory for some people because the damage in PvP is so high. Medium armor still had the best passives but the damage mitigation is just not there along with the great sustain of heavy armor I can see why alot of people are ditching medium and light. With heavy it's not uncommon to see someone with 3000 crit resist 27k physical resist and 3700+ wd that's really good for a PvP set up.

thankyourat

Anti_Virus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Just reading this feedback, im not even going to bother responding, your numbers are off, constitution is garage?, any dmg procs wraith including dots..

You using resource poisons as an example... like really? No matter what build you run those resource poisons will break it.

Heavy stamplar works, just not solo.

9k pen with 25k armor is 11k armor left which is like 17% reduction.

Compare to medium which would be around what? 17k? armor.

Your video is also useless, that empress is just bad, like really bad, no buffs, no purge, no cc, etc... They can't even sustain stamina as well so no sturdy, no tri pots etc...

If they was even a half decent player the nb would of died instantly.

Heavy armor stamplar does not work because they have no sustain. Anybody can play in a group and not really worry about relying on themselves so I don't understand what your point is.

I used poisons as an example however what if I told you that I do not use poisons? I don't believe in using them because they are too strong.

Talk to me some more about how heavy armor makes you mitigate damage. I can crit incaps in Azura's star for 10k on people with 20k resistance and all impenetrable golden gear. Stop talking about you mitigating damage because you aren't mitigating anything. I don't even run with high weapon damage and all I have is my sharpened maul yet I can still hit for high amounts on heavy armor users without my cp. I know they are wearing impenetrable because I crafted my friend heavy kagrinac's in all impenetrable then I dueled him in that campaign, my incap hits for 10k, my surprise attack hits for 6k, my killers blade hits for 10k. I don't understand why I am hitting for such high amounts without my CP on heavy armor users.

The constitution passive is garbage. Stop wasting your time trying to convince me that it isn't because I am the one with the high cost reduction and high recovery and you aren't. You are basically a glass cannon because your armor doesn't even exist.

Half that paragraph is you crying that heavy isn't good because you can penetrate it all easily. Which you can't.

This isn't even a discussion, this is me using maths to explain a point and you ust spitting your dummy and crying no it isn't.

Where is your evidence constitution is bad? All i see if you making up random numbers from dueling your 'friend'.

What platform do you play? Pls say ps4 eu so i can 1 hit you with my heavy dk?

Yes you can penetrate almost all of heavy armor resistances, do I need to run another calculation for you here?

Who in PvP runs that much penetration? On my current build I get pen from sharpened weapons, light armor, spinners an cp and my build sits at around 15k spell pen. If I ran anymore it would be wasting cp that I could put elsewhere. Most heavy armor builds have 25k or more resist

Anti_Virus

thankyourat wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Just reading this feedback, im not even going to bother responding, your numbers are off, constitution is garage?, any dmg procs wraith including dots..

You using resource poisons as an example... like really? No matter what build you run those resource poisons will break it.

Heavy stamplar works, just not solo.

9k pen with 25k armor is 11k armor left which is like 17% reduction.

Compare to medium which would be around what? 17k? armor.

Your video is also useless, that empress is just bad, like really bad, no buffs, no purge, no cc, etc... They can't even sustain stamina as well so no sturdy, no tri pots etc...

If they was even a half decent player the nb would of died instantly.

Heavy armor stamplar does not work because they have no sustain. Anybody can play in a group and not really worry about relying on themselves so I don't understand what your point is.

I used poisons as an example however what if I told you that I do not use poisons? I don't believe in using them because they are too strong.

Talk to me some more about how heavy armor makes you mitigate damage. I can crit incaps in Azura's star for 10k on people with 20k resistance and all impenetrable golden gear. Stop talking about you mitigating damage because you aren't mitigating anything. I don't even run with high weapon damage and all I have is my sharpened maul yet I can still hit for high amounts on heavy armor users without my cp. I know they are wearing impenetrable because I crafted my friend heavy kagrinac's in all impenetrable then I dueled him in that campaign, my incap hits for 10k, my surprise attack hits for 6k, my killers blade hits for 10k. I don't understand why I am hitting for such high amounts without my CP on heavy armor users.

The constitution passive is garbage. Stop wasting your time trying to convince me that it isn't because I am the one with the high cost reduction and high recovery and you aren't. You are basically a glass cannon because your armor doesn't even exist.

Half that paragraph is you crying that heavy isn't good because you can penetrate it all easily. Which you can't.

This isn't even a discussion, this is me using maths to explain a point and you ust spitting your dummy and crying no it isn't.

Where is your evidence constitution is bad? All i see if you making up random numbers from dueling your 'friend'.

What platform do you play? Pls say ps4 eu so i can 1 hit you with my heavy dk?

Yes you can penetrate almost all of heavy armor resistances, do I need to run another calculation for you here?

Who in PvP runs that much penetration? On my current build I get pen from sharpened weapons, light armor, spinners an cp and my build sits at around 15k spell pen. If I ran anymore it would be wasting cp that I could put elsewhere. Most heavy armor builds have 25k or more resist

Well It's not practical but you can run very high pen builds,

Especially with the new sets like Spriggins and Spinners.

[Edit]

Don't forget destro staff passive, and major breech. Thats another 6600 (10% destro passive) + 5280 (major breech 8%) = 11880 + 15K = 26880 spell pen.

Anti_Virus

thankyourat wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

1500 resources every 4 seconds is the equivalent of 750 magicka and stamina recovery without black rose... that is garbage? Wut?

Haven't seen the sribes video yet but "wrecked the hell out of everyone that was possibly wearing heavy armor"...? Again, wut? Maybe they weren't wearing heavy armor...

Speculating that this 60k health guy had 30k resistances is a big (and probably incorrect) assumption. While we are at it I am going to assume said player was also wearing no impen (again, I haven't seen the video). Because one player who is one of the best at dealing insane burst damage cut through some heavy armor does not say anything about how it compares to medium and light. He just would have had a much easier time killing a light/medium armor user.

If the wrath passive is so garbage then lets just remove it and replace it with something more defensive in line with heavy armor.I understand resource management but there is no reason heavy armor should be giving ANY kind of offensive bonus.

There is certainly a place for light armor (shields) and medium armor. I run medium armor on my stamplar because I think it is a more fun play style with more mobility. However heavy armor is still OP in the current state.

Wrong and i'll explain why...

Constitution requires you to get hit and only procs every 4 secs, while medium and light give a passive recovery active all the time. In addtion they both give COST reduction which is infinitely superior to regen.

I agree remove the wrath pasive is doen't make a difference to me I would like my 20% block cost back.
200WD or SD is inferior to 12 PERCENT of your WD from medium and even that is inferior to LA Spell pen.

Also if heavy was just forced to be defensive then what do you think heavy armor users would do? They would all be block tanks which people like you would still cry about. Heavy armor has beem neglected until the Dark Brotherhood patch and now that its useful you want to see it destroyed again.

You're right LA has a place in cyrodil which is why the majority of pvpers wear LA, this claim is backed by @ZOS_RichLambert himself who release a chart with data proving that 501+ CP players wear mostly Light armor with medium being the second popular and heavy the last.
I'll link the thread where he posted the chart lest he doen't come here an post.

If you believe heavy armor is OP that fine it's your opinion you are entitled to one, but to claim that opinion as fact if pure dogmatism.

[Edit]

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/3370532#Comment_3370532

Yea but with heavy it's filling up both resources so it's like using drink but you can use max food. if I use heavy armor I can sustain just fine with only 1100 regen, if I go light I need atleast 1700 and if I use a medium armor build I usually run close to 2000. Also the damage mitigation from heavy armor is really good. I don't think it's OP I think its just starting to become mandatory for some people because the damage in PvP is so high. Medium armor still had the best passives but the damage mitigation is just not there along with the great sustain of heavy armor I can see why alot of people are ditching medium and light. With heavy it's not uncommon to see someone with 3000 crit resist 27k physical resist and 3700+ wd that's really good for a PvP set up.

All your points are correct, I appreciate your constructive response.

Imo heavy armor is in a good spot, there are definite perks to heavy but imo they aren't enough to classify it as "OP"

Solidsnake993

leepalmer95 wrote: »

What platform do you play? Pls say ps4 eu so i can 1 hit you with my heavy dk?

You better believe I want to duel you right now however I am on NA. I very seriously doubt you have the time to grind out 561 cp on NA just to duel me. The paragraph is not about me complaining heavy armor is weak. You are missing the point, yes it is weak first off because you can't handle the damage, and second I will only say it one last time when I say that the constitution passives is not sustain which means it is garbage. I don;t understand why you are so convinced that I would not do the same amount of damage on you if you were wearing light armor or heavy armor. Stamina dragonknight undoubtedly has to wear heavy armor because that is your class role. My point is that I can still kill you even while you are wearing heavy armor, hence the title of this post. Read the title of this post just one more time.

Blackfyre20

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wrong and i'll explain why...

Constitution requires you to get hit and only procs every 4 secs, while medium and light give a passive recovery active all the time. In addtion they both give COST reduction which is infinitely superior to regen.

I agree remove the wrath pasive is doen't make a difference to me I would like my 20% block cost back.
200WD or SD is inferior to 12 PERCENT of your WD from medium and even that is inferior to LA Spell pen.

Also if heavy was just forced to be defensive then what do you think heavy armor users would do? They would all be block tanks which people like you would still cry about. Heavy armor has been neglected until the Dark Brotherhood patch and now that its useful you want to see it destroyed again.

You're right LA has a place in cyrodil which is why the majority of pvpers wear LA, this claim is backed by @ZOS_RichLambert himself who release a chart with data proving that 501+ CP players wear mostly Light armor with medium being the second popular and heavy the last.
I'll link the thread where he posted the chart lest he doen't come here an post.

If you believe heavy armor is OP that fine it's your opinion you are entitled to one, but to claim that opinion as fact if pure dogmatism.

[Edit]

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/3370532#Comment_3370532

First of all, I want to point out that I think the numbers for constitution in my post were off. I was just using the numbers from the OP to show why constitution is not "garbage" but I don't think the resource return is actually 1500 every 4 seconds without black rose.

As I said in my post I don't have an issue with the resource management heavy armor provides. However, constitution's "weakness" as you would like to make it seem (that you have to get hit to return resources) is also its biggest strength. It allows you to return stamina while blocking or magicka while in mist form. I'd also like to point out that cost reduction is not "infinitely superior to regen." If this were the case, everyone would have their cost reduction CP tree maxed out and running cost reduction instead of regen on their jewelry (if you need a sustain enchant) which is often not optimal. For someone throwing around the word dogmatism I'd advise you to take a look at your own glass house first. Last thing on constitution is that it is a flat value and does not require you to invest in any regen. Putting on black rose might be looked at as such an investment but the problem is you're also getting a ton of damage. Someone with light seducer or lich on is not really getting any damage out of the set. So to benefit from the % regen in light or medium you have to heavily invest in said regen to begin with, which you don't have to do in heavy armor.

About the wrath passive, while it is inferior to the medium and light bonuses, it is certainly not negligible as you would make it seem. I'm not advocating for forcing heavy armor users to be defensive, but they should not get any offensive bonus from wearing heavy armor. Feel free to put on offensive sets, but I don't think the heavy armor itself should be providing any type of offensive bonus.

Finally, that chart doesn't mean much to me. First of all I'd be interested to see when/how that data was collected. It's not a survey it didn't look like so how can this data collector tell what exactly each one of my characters is wearing when in cyrodiil. I both PVP and PVE which I assume most people do and if you are a dps then you'll never wear heavy for PVE. Also I am always trying different sets so which setup shows up in this data? I'm not saying the data is BS, just saying it'd be tough to collect actual meaningful info and I'd be interested how it's done. That aside, just because a lot of people are doing something doesn't mean that it's a good thing. As I said I like to wear medium armor on my stam characters often because I don't like to mindlessly follow the meta and it's fun to challenge myself a bit. If I actually wanted to be the best PVPer I could be I'd throw on black rose, viper, and tremorscale/velidreth/selene (which I have done before, just feels dirty).

Bottom line, when you put on heavy armor you are not making many meaningful sacrifices and are gaining free resistance. I've seen a lot of people counter with the fact that people stack penetration to tear through heavy armor but that argument doesn't make any sense. Sure maybe they do just that but that just means they'd tear through light/medium even faster. Nobody is over penetrating someone in full heavy armor so at the end of the day it is making some sort of difference. Also sure, light armor is definitely strong when combined with shields. Since shield duration being lowered to 6 seconds though you are taking a hit to your quality of life when you put on light armor because you have to constantly make sure you have your shields up lest you get insta-gibbed by any average player, which also takes more skill. Your stamina management is also much tougher in light which isn't much of a concern in heavy. It is my opinion that heavy armor is OP in the current state, especially when combined with black rose.

FloppyTouch

After reading every comment here I have not change my opinion heavy armor is not OP just sets like blackrose are. I don't see how heavy armor is Over powered, this mean super strong and can't be beat and there is nothing else to use but this option(my own definition on OP).

Medium armor and light can compete just fine with heavy armor this means it's balance and not OP. It's only when u add heavy sets like blackrose it becomes an issue, this is stated even in the arguments that think heavy is too strong.

So issue fix is fix the sets bonuses not the armor type. I think this community needs to stop jumping the gun calling this and that OP you seem to have a different understanding of what OP means.

If someone is wearing say 5 set hundings meduim and another wearing 5 set hundings heavy would the heavy be so OP that the medium would get destroyed and not win once? I really don't think so I'm sure the meduim would win most of the time. In fact I'm going to try this out with a friend of equal skill and same class and see.

Anti_Virus

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wrong and i'll explain why...

Constitution requires you to get hit and only procs every 4 secs, while medium and light give a passive recovery active all the time. In addtion they both give COST reduction which is infinitely superior to regen.

I agree remove the wrath pasive is doen't make a difference to me I would like my 20% block cost back.
200WD or SD is inferior to 12 PERCENT of your WD from medium and even that is inferior to LA Spell pen.

Also if heavy was just forced to be defensive then what do you think heavy armor users would do? They would all be block tanks which people like you would still cry about. Heavy armor has been neglected until the Dark Brotherhood patch and now that its useful you want to see it destroyed again.

You're right LA has a place in cyrodil which is why the majority of pvpers wear LA, this claim is backed by @ZOS_RichLambert himself who release a chart with data proving that 501+ CP players wear mostly Light armor with medium being the second popular and heavy the last.
I'll link the thread where he posted the chart lest he doen't come here an post.

If you believe heavy armor is OP that fine it's your opinion you are entitled to one, but to claim that opinion as fact if pure dogmatism.

[Edit]

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/3370532#Comment_3370532

First of all, I want to point out that I think the numbers for constitution in my post were off. I was just using the numbers from the OP to show why constitution is not "garbage" but I don't think the resource return is actually 1500 every 4 seconds without black rose.

As I said in my post I don't have an issue with the resource management heavy armor provides. However, constitution's "weakness" as you would like to make it seem (that you have to get hit to return resources) is also its biggest strength. It allows you to return stamina while blocking or magicka while in mist form. I'd also like to point out that cost reduction is not "infinitely superior to regen." If this were the case, everyone would have their cost reduction CP tree maxed out and running cost reduction instead of regen on their jewelry (if you need a sustain enchant) which is often not optimal. For someone throwing around the word dogmatism I'd advise you to take a look at your own glass house first. Last thing on constitution is that it is a flat value and does not require you to invest in any regen. Putting on black rose might be looked at as such an investment but the problem is you're also getting a ton of damage. Someone with light seducer or lich on is not really getting any damage out of the set. So to benefit from the % regen in light or medium you have to heavily invest in said regen to begin with, which you don't have to do in heavy armor.

About the wrath passive, while it is inferior to the medium and light bonuses, it is certainly not negligible as you would make it seem. I'm not advocating for forcing heavy armor users to be defensive, but they should not get any offensive bonus from wearing heavy armor. Feel free to put on offensive sets, but I don't think the heavy armor itself should be providing any type of offensive bonus.

Finally, that chart doesn't mean much to me. First of all I'd be interested to see when/how that data was collected. It's not a survey it didn't look like so how can this data collector tell what exactly each one of my characters is wearing when in cyrodiil. I both PVP and PVE which I assume most people do and if you are a dps then you'll never wear heavy for PVE. Also I am always trying different sets so which setup shows up in this data? I'm not saying the data is BS, just saying it'd be tough to collect actual meaningful info and I'd be interested how it's done. That aside, just because a lot of people are doing something doesn't mean that it's a good thing. As I said I like to wear medium armor on my stam characters often because I don't like to mindlessly follow the meta and it's fun to challenge myself a bit. If I actually wanted to be the best PVPer I could be I'd throw on black rose, viper, and tremorscale/velidreth/selene (which I have done before, just feels dirty).

Bottom line, when you put on heavy armor you are not making many meaningful sacrifices and are gaining free resistance. I've seen a lot of people counter with the fact that people stack penetration to tear through heavy armor but that argument doesn't make any sense. Sure maybe they do just that but that just means they'd tear through light/medium even faster. Nobody is over penetrating someone in full heavy armor so at the end of the day it is making some sort of difference. Also sure, light armor is definitely strong when combined with shields. Since shield duration being lowered to 6 seconds though you are taking a hit to your quality of life when you put on light armor because you have to constantly make sure you have your shields up lest you get insta-gibbed by any average player, which also takes more skill. Your stamina management is also much tougher in light which isn't much of a concern in heavy. It is my opinion that heavy armor is OP in the current state, especially when combined with black rose.

Excellent post. I don't want to get to hostile with ya.

[Edit]
Addtionaly I would like to say that heavy armor isn't weak either, certain sets to make it OverPreform(Black Rose) and should be looked at but all in all I believe that heavy is in a good spot.

leepalmer95

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wrong and i'll explain why...

Constitution requires you to get hit and only procs every 4 secs, while medium and light give a passive recovery active all the time. In addtion they both give COST reduction which is infinitely superior to regen.

I agree remove the wrath pasive is doen't make a difference to me I would like my 20% block cost back.
200WD or SD is inferior to 12 PERCENT of your WD from medium and even that is inferior to LA Spell pen.

Also if heavy was just forced to be defensive then what do you think heavy armor users would do? They would all be block tanks which people like you would still cry about. Heavy armor has been neglected until the Dark Brotherhood patch and now that its useful you want to see it destroyed again.

You're right LA has a place in cyrodil which is why the majority of pvpers wear LA, this claim is backed by @ZOS_RichLambert himself who release a chart with data proving that 501+ CP players wear mostly Light armor with medium being the second popular and heavy the last.
I'll link the thread where he posted the chart lest he doen't come here an post.

If you believe heavy armor is OP that fine it's your opinion you are entitled to one, but to claim that opinion as fact if pure dogmatism.

[Edit]

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/3370532#Comment_3370532

First of all, I want to point out that I think the numbers for constitution in my post were off. I was just using the numbers from the OP to show why constitution is not "garbage" but I don't think the resource return is actually 1500 every 4 seconds without black rose.

As I said in my post I don't have an issue with the resource management heavy armor provides. However, constitution's "weakness" as you would like to make it seem (that you have to get hit to return resources) is also its biggest strength. It allows you to return stamina while blocking or magicka while in mist form. I'd also like to point out that cost reduction is not "infinitely superior to regen." If this were the case, everyone would have their cost reduction CP tree maxed out and running cost reduction instead of regen on their jewelry (if you need a sustain enchant) which is often not optimal. For someone throwing around the word dogmatism I'd advise you to take a look at your own glass house first. Last thing on constitution is that it is a flat value and does not require you to invest in any regen. Putting on black rose might be looked at as such an investment but the problem is you're also getting a ton of damage. Someone with light seducer or lich on is not really getting any damage out of the set. So to benefit from the % regen in light or medium you have to heavily invest in said regen to begin with, which you don't have to do in heavy armor.

About the wrath passive, while it is inferior to the medium and light bonuses, it is certainly not negligible as you would make it seem. I'm not advocating for forcing heavy armor users to be defensive, but they should not get any offensive bonus from wearing heavy armor. Feel free to put on offensive sets, but I don't think the heavy armor itself should be providing any type of offensive bonus.

Finally, that chart doesn't mean much to me. First of all I'd be interested to see when/how that data was collected. It's not a survey it didn't look like so how can this data collector tell what exactly each one of my characters is wearing when in cyrodiil. I both PVP and PVE which I assume most people do and if you are a dps then you'll never wear heavy for PVE. Also I am always trying different sets so which setup shows up in this data? I'm not saying the data is BS, just saying it'd be tough to collect actual meaningful info and I'd be interested how it's done. That aside, just because a lot of people are doing something doesn't mean that it's a good thing. As I said I like to wear medium armor on my stam characters often because I don't like to mindlessly follow the meta and it's fun to challenge myself a bit. If I actually wanted to be the best PVPer I could be I'd throw on black rose, viper, and tremorscale/velidreth/selene (which I have done before, just feels dirty).

Bottom line, when you put on heavy armor you are not making many meaningful sacrifices and are gaining free resistance. I've seen a lot of people counter with the fact that people stack penetration to tear through heavy armor but that argument doesn't make any sense. Sure maybe they do just that but that just means they'd tear through light/medium even faster. Nobody is over penetrating someone in full heavy armor so at the end of the day it is making some sort of difference. Also sure, light armor is definitely strong when combined with shields. Since shield duration being lowered to 6 seconds though you are taking a hit to your quality of life when you put on light armor because you have to constantly make sure you have your shields up lest you get insta-gibbed by any average player, which also takes more skill. Your stamina management is also much tougher in light which isn't much of a concern in heavy. It is my opinion that heavy armor is OP in the current state, especially when combined with black rose.

Excellent post. I don't want to get to hostile with ya.

[Edit]
Addtionaly I would like to say that heavy armor is weak either, certain sets to make it OverPreform(Black Rose) and should be looked at but all in all I believe that heavy is in a good spot.

Personally i think:

The wraith passive should be halved.

The healing bonus should go

The constitution should only give 1 resource back, which ever is your highest.

This will force those stam heavy armor users who can put on a heavy set and take full advantage of the magicka return to get 100% sustain so they'll actually drop some of their 100% dmg gear for cost reduction or something.

Anti_Virus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wrong and i'll explain why...

Constitution requires you to get hit and only procs every 4 secs, while medium and light give a passive recovery active all the time. In addtion they both give COST reduction which is infinitely superior to regen.

I agree remove the wrath pasive is doen't make a difference to me I would like my 20% block cost back.
200WD or SD is inferior to 12 PERCENT of your WD from medium and even that is inferior to LA Spell pen.

Also if heavy was just forced to be defensive then what do you think heavy armor users would do? They would all be block tanks which people like you would still cry about. Heavy armor has been neglected until the Dark Brotherhood patch and now that its useful you want to see it destroyed again.

You're right LA has a place in cyrodil which is why the majority of pvpers wear LA, this claim is backed by @ZOS_RichLambert himself who release a chart with data proving that 501+ CP players wear mostly Light armor with medium being the second popular and heavy the last.
I'll link the thread where he posted the chart lest he doen't come here an post.

If you believe heavy armor is OP that fine it's your opinion you are entitled to one, but to claim that opinion as fact if pure dogmatism.

[Edit]

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/3370532#Comment_3370532

First of all, I want to point out that I think the numbers for constitution in my post were off. I was just using the numbers from the OP to show why constitution is not "garbage" but I don't think the resource return is actually 1500 every 4 seconds without black rose.

As I said in my post I don't have an issue with the resource management heavy armor provides. However, constitution's "weakness" as you would like to make it seem (that you have to get hit to return resources) is also its biggest strength. It allows you to return stamina while blocking or magicka while in mist form. I'd also like to point out that cost reduction is not "infinitely superior to regen." If this were the case, everyone would have their cost reduction CP tree maxed out and running cost reduction instead of regen on their jewelry (if you need a sustain enchant) which is often not optimal. For someone throwing around the word dogmatism I'd advise you to take a look at your own glass house first. Last thing on constitution is that it is a flat value and does not require you to invest in any regen. Putting on black rose might be looked at as such an investment but the problem is you're also getting a ton of damage. Someone with light seducer or lich on is not really getting any damage out of the set. So to benefit from the % regen in light or medium you have to heavily invest in said regen to begin with, which you don't have to do in heavy armor.

About the wrath passive, while it is inferior to the medium and light bonuses, it is certainly not negligible as you would make it seem. I'm not advocating for forcing heavy armor users to be defensive, but they should not get any offensive bonus from wearing heavy armor. Feel free to put on offensive sets, but I don't think the heavy armor itself should be providing any type of offensive bonus.

Finally, that chart doesn't mean much to me. First of all I'd be interested to see when/how that data was collected. It's not a survey it didn't look like so how can this data collector tell what exactly each one of my characters is wearing when in cyrodiil. I both PVP and PVE which I assume most people do and if you are a dps then you'll never wear heavy for PVE. Also I am always trying different sets so which setup shows up in this data? I'm not saying the data is BS, just saying it'd be tough to collect actual meaningful info and I'd be interested how it's done. That aside, just because a lot of people are doing something doesn't mean that it's a good thing. As I said I like to wear medium armor on my stam characters often because I don't like to mindlessly follow the meta and it's fun to challenge myself a bit. If I actually wanted to be the best PVPer I could be I'd throw on black rose, viper, and tremorscale/velidreth/selene (which I have done before, just feels dirty).

Bottom line, when you put on heavy armor you are not making many meaningful sacrifices and are gaining free resistance. I've seen a lot of people counter with the fact that people stack penetration to tear through heavy armor but that argument doesn't make any sense. Sure maybe they do just that but that just means they'd tear through light/medium even faster. Nobody is over penetrating someone in full heavy armor so at the end of the day it is making some sort of difference. Also sure, light armor is definitely strong when combined with shields. Since shield duration being lowered to 6 seconds though you are taking a hit to your quality of life when you put on light armor because you have to constantly make sure you have your shields up lest you get insta-gibbed by any average player, which also takes more skill. Your stamina management is also much tougher in light which isn't much of a concern in heavy. It is my opinion that heavy armor is OP in the current state, especially when combined with black rose.

Excellent post. I don't want to get to hostile with ya.

[Edit]
Addtionaly I would like to say that heavy armor is weak either, certain sets to make it OverPreform(Black Rose) and should be looked at but all in all I believe that heavy is in a good spot.

Personally i think:

The wraith passive should be halved.

The healing bonus should go

The constitution should only give 1 resource back, which ever is your highest.

This will force those stam heavy armor users who can put on a heavy set and take full advantage of the magicka return to get 100% sustain so they'll actually drop some of their 100% dmg gear for cost reduction or something.

Agree with everything except for healing received passive I love that passive.

LegendaryMage

leepalmer95 wrote: »

The wraith passive should be halved.

Biro123

I have identical sets of Julianos for PVP - one in heavy and one in light.

Been messing around with my build quite a bit lately and can honestly say that I don't notice an awful lot of difference between the two except that when having reasonable base mag regen, light armour is better. It just handles the sustain for you with just a little base regen.
But if I cut out all regen and build for max stats, heavy armour is better simply for constitution. This doesn't mean that I can sustain till the cows come home - because I can't. in many vs many, I have to back off behind others regularly to dark-exchange, regen, wait for pots to cooldown. In 1v1s and duals, I run out of resources quickly and a decent opponent kills you or interrupts while you're trying to dark exchange.

In terms of resistances... this is going from memory so may be incorrect. Light gave me around 12k, heavy made it around 15-16k. Simply slapping on 5 heavy armour on a dps build does NOT give you 25k resists. You need to build in more defence and sacrifice offence for that. With sharpened weapons, light armour some cp pen and an armour debuff, that 15k is FULLY penetrated. With less penetration, what remains from that 15k is certainly not enough to make it 'overpowered'.

I just think people are confusing heavy armour dps builds with full tank builds and somehow seem to think that people can get the best of both without trying. I think they are fairly balanced.

Solidsnake993

Anti_Virus wrote: »

[Edit]
Addtionaly I would like to say that heavy armor is weak either, certain sets to make it OverPreform(Black Rose) and should be looked at but all in all I believe that heavy is in a good spot.

5 Kagreninac's for life on a magicka build.

Solidsnake993

Biro123 wrote: »

I have identical sets of Julianos for PVP - one in heavy and one in light.

Been messing around with my build quite a bit lately and can honestly say that I don't notice an awful lot of difference between the two except that when having reasonable base mag regen, light armour is better. It just handles the sustain for you with just a little base regen.
But if I cut out all regen and build for max stats, heavy armour is better simply for constitution. This doesn't mean that I can sustain till the cows come home - because I can't. in many vs many, I have to back off behind others regularly to dark-exchange, regen, wait for pots to cooldown. In 1v1s and duals, I run out of resources quickly and a decent opponent kills you or interrupts while you're trying to dark exchange.

In terms of resistances... this is going from memory so may be incorrect. Light gave me around 12k, heavy made it around 15-16k. Simply slapping on 5 heavy armour on a dps build does NOT give you 25k resists. You need to build in more defence and sacrifice offence for that. With sharpened weapons, light armour some cp pen and an armour debuff, that 15k is FULLY penetrated. With less penetration, what remains from that 15k is certainly not enough to make it 'overpowered'.

I just think people are confusing heavy armour dps builds with full tank builds and somehow seem to think that people can get the best of both without trying. I think they are fairly balanced.

Are you being serious? Do you really wear heavy armor on a magicka sorcerer? Do you have any idea how impossible a sorcerer is to play without any cost reduction?

Asardes

I actually dropped 5 heavy armor on my stamina DK for 5 medium when I went to PvP because it took ages before I was able to kill anybody, and most times they killed me before I killed them. I died a bit more after I switched to medium, at least in the beginning, but my K/D ratio markedly improved. Medium armor has 3/4 resistance of heavy, and you can easily reach 18-20K with 1L/5M/1H and over 22K with 5M/2H if you use a ward. If you use 1H+S on on of your bars and have the CP passive, even higher. You only take 12-16% more damage than a resistance capped heavy armor user but have much higher weapon damage, stamina regeneration and critical rating.

Anti_Virus

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

I have identical sets of Julianos for PVP - one in heavy and one in light.

Been messing around with my build quite a bit lately and can honestly say that I don't notice an awful lot of difference between the two except that when having reasonable base mag regen, light armour is better. It just handles the sustain for you with just a little base regen.
But if I cut out all regen and build for max stats, heavy armour is better simply for constitution. This doesn't mean that I can sustain till the cows come home - because I can't. in many vs many, I have to back off behind others regularly to dark-exchange, regen, wait for pots to cooldown. In 1v1s and duals, I run out of resources quickly and a decent opponent kills you or interrupts while you're trying to dark exchange.

In terms of resistances... this is going from memory so may be incorrect. Light gave me around 12k, heavy made it around 15-16k. Simply slapping on 5 heavy armour on a dps build does NOT give you 25k resists. You need to build in more defence and sacrifice offence for that. With sharpened weapons, light armour some cp pen and an armour debuff, that 15k is FULLY penetrated. With less penetration, what remains from that 15k is certainly not enough to make it 'overpowered'.

I just think people are confusing heavy armour dps builds with full tank builds and somehow seem to think that people can get the best of both without trying. I think they are fairly balanced.

Are you being serious? Do you really wear heavy armor on a magicka sorcerer? Do you have any idea how impossible a sorcerer is to play without any cost reduction?

This.

Anti_Virus

Asardes wrote: »

I actually dropped 5 heavy armor on my stamina DK for 5 medium when I went to PvP because it took ages before I was able to kill anybody, and most times they killed me before I killed them. I died a bit more after I switched to medium, at least in the beginning, but my K/D ratio markedly improved. Medium armor has 3/4 resistance of heavy, and you can easily reach 18-20K with 1L/5M/1H and over 22K with 5M/2H if you use a ward. If you use 1H+S on on of your bars and have the CP passive, even higher. You only take 12-16% more damage than a resistance capped heavy armor user but have much higher weapon damage, stamina regeneration and critical rating.

This needs to be posted on every heavy armor hate thread.

Valencer

No, you wont end up with higher critical rating and weapon damage because when youre wearing heavy armour and properly playing that playstyle you can almost forget about investing into stamina regen and just do silly stuff like use The Thief mundus stone for more crit (gives more crit than 5 medium) and use mostly weapon damage glyphs, run around with barebones stam regen and still sustain fine.

What can you really get out of medium armour anymore? Roll dodge cost reduction. The problem with roll dodge is people are throwing around insane burst with the click of a button right now and you cant spam roll dodge very effectively so eventually you cant avoid that burst anymore. The most reliable defense right now is blocking, and guess what armour synergises really nicely with that? Yeah.

FloppyTouch

Valencer wrote: »

No, you wont end up with higher critical rating and weapon damage because when youre wearing heavy armour and properly playing that playstyle you can almost forget about investing into stamina regen and just do silly stuff like use The Thief mundus stone for more crit (gives more crit than 5 medium) and use mostly weapon damage glyphs, run around with barebones stam regen and still sustain fine.

What can you really get out of medium armour anymore? Roll dodge cost reduction. The problem with roll dodge is people are throwing around insane burst with the click of a button right now and you cant spam roll dodge very effectively so eventually you cant avoid that burst anymore. The most reliable defense right now is blocking, and guess what armour synergises really nicely with that? Yeah.

Again for the 100th time this is not a heavy armor issue this is a set issue that works to well with heavy armor. You seem to be confused with heavy armor as a type of gear and a set like blackrose. OP is trying to say heavy armor by its self is not over powered.

Asardes

Heavy armor has no synergies with block. It had a block cost reduction at some point but that was changed a long time ago. You can block in medium just as easy, and regen stamina faster when you are not blocking . And people say that you will have a lot of regeneration in heavy from constitution passive assuming that they will get constantly hit. Which is not realistic. If you get hit every 4 seconds you will die fast, regardless of your resistance, because people have sharpened weapons, they use CC, far and stun, blocking only mitigates some of the damage and it takes much more stamina than the passive will return. Most also use DoTs which can't be blocked. Even in PvE where you mostly get hit by dumb trash mobs Constitution doesn't really amount to reliable sustain.

When it comes to survival Rapid Mending and Juggernaut are much more important passives than Constitution and Wrath. In any case the 8% healing received from Rapid Mending is comparable with the extra healing from rally and vigor with the Agility passive as both scale of maximum stamina and weapon damage. Doing heavy attacks with melee weapons is not a very good option though, because it's predictable and if the enemy is blocking you will be stunned yourself, taking more stamina to break free than you would have recovered from the heavy attacks. It's much more viable for magicka users which can heavy attack from distance. Channeling heavy attacks with a lightning or even resto staff is pretty easy. Medium has also stamina cost reduction and faster regeneration from Wind Walker, so you can cast vigor more often, refresh shuffle and roll dodge more than you would in heavy armor, without starving your stamina pool.

In conclusion medium is better than heavy for the majority of stamina builds. However I would agree that light is a bit weak right now. I think they should add or change something to make it more survivable, for example add a passive that improves damage shields, increasing their size and/or duration. Because magicka builds rely on shields for survival, the same way stamina builds rely on dodging.

Izaki

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

1500 resources every 4 seconds is the equivalent of 750 magicka and stamina recovery without black rose... that is garbage? Wut?

Haven't seen the sribes video yet but "wrecked the hell out of everyone that was possibly wearing heavy armor"...? Again, wut? Maybe they weren't wearing heavy armor...

Speculating that this 60k health guy had 30k resistances is a big (and probably incorrect) assumption. While we are at it I am going to assume said player was also wearing no impen (again, I haven't seen the video). Because one player who is one of the best at dealing insane burst damage cut through some heavy armor does not say anything about how it compares to medium and light. He just would have had a much easier time killing a light/medium armor user.

If the wrath passive is so garbage then lets just remove it and replace it with something more defensive in line with heavy armor. I understand resource management but there is no reason heavy armor should be giving ANY kind of offensive bonus.

There is certainly a place for light armor (shields) and medium armor. I run medium armor on my stamplar because I think it is a more fun play style with more mobility. However heavy armor is still OP in the current state.

He killed him by himself. His setup was 5 alchemist 5 viper 2 validreth. He hit that guy with 7 different abilities in 1 second which is kind of broken if you ask me. Each of his attacks dealt like 10k damage. He was obviously wearing impenetrable because the damage he took was reduced. That's another point I want to make. Ganking is broken in this game. The fact that you could just kill someone in 1 second with no possibility of a hard counter really makes me want to cry. It doesn't matter how much resistance you put on your guy. It doesn't matter how much impenetrable you put on your guy. You're still going to die without a second to react if it's a properly built stamblade, and stamblades are really easy to build and setup.

Sribes and Xin, I count 2 people. Also he didn't hit anyone with 7 abilities in 1 second, not even the biggest pro of animation cancelling can do that. You can't cancel an ability with another ability.
You can time all your attacks to hit at the same time though, which is what he was doing. In this case the bow heavy attack and the ambush land pretty much together and the incas follows up. So that's 3 attacks, 60% chance to proc Velidreth and 100% chance to proc Viper.

Biro123

Feedinginsanity wrote: »

Are you being serious? Do you really wear heavy armor on a magicka sorcerer? Do you have any idea how impossible a sorcerer is to play without any cost reduction?

Its fine, really. Depends what you want to use it for - obviously its no good for group pve, or 1vx and not great for duelling - but for zerg v zerg its great. I run a duel-wield high burst build which doesn't mean constant crushing shock spam. When not bursting, the odd resto heavy attack (with the extra mag return passive from heavy) - and the odd dark exchange - along with a single cost reduce glyph is more than enough sustain. Constitution returns magicka AND stamina - which fuels dark exchange.

Also a single tri-pot and a few dark-exchanges quickly fills up an empty magicka bar.

And a high magicka pool gives enough juice to burst ppl down or survive when under pressure long enough to escape or for others to arrive..

I'd be lying if I said I didn't sometimes run dry - but its rare that it happens in a situation where I can't disengage and recover.