Incoming magika dk overlords

thankyourat · December 2016

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

So why dont you slot a melee ability incase you run into a mDK? You have concealed dont you?

I am *** sick of the argument that wings is too strong because YOU chose to play ranged with no melee attacks. All the *** snipers back in 1.5 whined and whined and whined about wings because they ran 2xbow and wondered why they couldnt do dmg and it got nerfed severely.

It's your decision to run full range, so pay the consequences.

Well if I go melee than I will be stuck in talons the whole fight. Also if you go destro concealed your burst still comes from assasins will which you can't kill a mag dk without. So your main burst will still be reflected. I'm also not asking for a nerf to wings I'm just saying you have to be crazy if you don't think it's a huge advantage against certain classes. I'm fine with certain classes having advantages over others, but I'm not going to act like wings aren't a complete counter to ranged builds in 1v1.(Lol what's the point of using a destro staff if you make your spammable a melee ranged attack)

tbh, since NB has fear, you can easily time it with their wings recast to open up a burst window long enough to get a assassin's will off and a soul harvest

That's usually what I do but normally the soul harvest will be block because assassins will has a cast time so against a dk I usually go the meteor route. But that's still a hard counter in my book because if I can one shot him he will eventually be able to punch through me with his battle roar passive and crazy crowd control.

BuggeX wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

if you die to a mDK as mNB you do something wrong

If you can explain to me what advantages I have against a mag dk in a 1v1 besides running away I'm all ears, maybe you know something I don't. Because as far as I can see a mag dk is a complete counter class to magblade. As long as he is competent enough to keep his wings up I can't touch him. I'm basically waiting for a one shot opportunity and hoping I have the burst to finish him. Running away is not a counter. Mag dk is a beast 1v1 in general

Joy_Division · December 2016

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

So why dont you slot a melee ability incase you run into a mDK? You have concealed dont you?

I am *** sick of the argument that wings is too strong because YOU chose to play ranged with no melee attacks. All the *** snipers back in 1.5 whined and whined and whined about wings because they ran 2xbow and wondered why they couldnt do dmg and it got nerfed severely.

It's your decision to run full range, so pay the consequences.

Well if I go melee than I will be stuck in talons the whole fight. Also if you go destro concealed your burst still comes from assasins will which you can't kill a mag dk without. So your main burst will still be reflected. I'm also not asking for a nerf to wings I'm just saying you have to be crazy if you don't think it's a huge advantage against certain classes. I'm fine with certain classes having advantages over others, but I'm not going to act like wings aren't a complete counter to ranged builds in 1v1.(Lol what's the point of using a destro staff if you make your spammable a melee ranged attack)

tbh, since NB has fear, you can easily time it with their wings recast to open up a burst window long enough to get a assassin's will off and a soul harvest

That's usually what I do but normally the soul harvest will be block because assassins will has a cast time so against a dk I usually go the meteor route. But that's still a hard counter in my book because if I can one shot him he will eventually be able to punch through me with his battle roar passive and crazy crowd control.

BuggeX wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

if you die to a mDK as mNB you do something wrong

If you can explain to me what advantages I have against a mag dk in a 1v1 besides running away I'm all ears, maybe you know something I don't. Because as far as I can see a mag dk is a complete counter class to magblade. As long as he is competent enough to keep his wings up I can't touch him. I'm basically waiting for a one shot opportunity and hoping I have the burst to finish him. Running away is not a counter. Mag dk is a beast 1v1 in general

When you are in trouble, you can cloak and reset the fight. The DK cannot.
You poo poo mobility as if it is not important. It is.
Soul Harvest ultimate is a fantastic 1v1. Or are you going to tell me the DK dropping a banner is more dangerous?
Your CC has a very powerful aftereffect and makes your opponent 100% vulnerable to your burst. His CC actually shields you of some damage.
You have easy and convenient access to major evasion. The DK has to design their build around it.
You have abilities that actually do more than 8K tooltip.
The DK is much more dependent on his stamina pool than you are because DKs defense = block.
Your class gives you better stats and regen.
The fact that you can "wait for a one shot opportunity to finish him" is rather important. DKs are waiting for you to play poorly or run out of resources so they can wet noodle you to death.

I understand mNB isn't exactly the bees knees in PvP atm and that the DK also have some advanatges over you. However, the fact you aren't willing to acknowledge there aren't things that you can do better tells me you aren't looking at this objectively or honestly.

kadar · December 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

So why dont you slot a melee ability incase you run into a mDK? You have concealed dont you?

I am *** sick of the argument that wings is too strong because YOU chose to play ranged with no melee attacks. All the *** snipers back in 1.5 whined and whined and whined about wings because they ran 2xbow and wondered why they couldnt do dmg and it got nerfed severely.

It's your decision to run full range, so pay the consequences.

Well if I go melee than I will be stuck in talons the whole fight. Also if you go destro concealed your burst still comes from assasins will which you can't kill a mag dk without. So your main burst will still be reflected. I'm also not asking for a nerf to wings I'm just saying you have to be crazy if you don't think it's a huge advantage against certain classes. I'm fine with certain classes having advantages over others, but I'm not going to act like wings aren't a complete counter to ranged builds in 1v1.(Lol what's the point of using a destro staff if you make your spammable a melee ranged attack)

tbh, since NB has fear, you can easily time it with their wings recast to open up a burst window long enough to get a assassin's will off and a soul harvest

That's usually what I do but normally the soul harvest will be block because assassins will has a cast time so against a dk I usually go the meteor route. But that's still a hard counter in my book because if I can one shot him he will eventually be able to punch through me with his battle roar passive and crazy crowd control.

BuggeX wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

if you die to a mDK as mNB you do something wrong

If you can explain to me what advantages I have against a mag dk in a 1v1 besides running away I'm all ears, maybe you know something I don't. Because as far as I can see a mag dk is a complete counter class to magblade. As long as he is competent enough to keep his wings up I can't touch him. I'm basically waiting for a one shot opportunity and hoping I have the burst to finish him. Running away is not a counter. Mag dk is a beast 1v1 in general

When you are in trouble, you can cloak and reset the fight. The DK cannot.

You poo poo mobility as if it is not important. It is.

Soul Harvest ultimate is a fantastic 1v1. Or are you going to tell me the DK dropping a banner is more dangerous?

Your CC has a very powerful aftereffect and makes your opponent 100% vulnerable to your burst. His CC actually shields you of some damage.

You have easy and convenient access to major evasion. The DK has to design their build around it.

You have abilities that actually do more than 8K tooltip.

The DK is much more dependent on his stamina pool than you are because DKs defense = block.

Your class gives you better stats and regen.

The fact that you can "wait for a one shot opportunity to finish him" is rather important. DKs are waiting for you to play poorly or run out of resources so they can wet noodle you to death.

I understand mNB isn't exactly the bees knees in PvP atm and that the DK also have some advanatges over you. However, the fact you aren't willing to acknowledge there aren't things that you can do better tells me you aren't looking at this objectively or honestly.

Joy, some of those points seem veryyyy skewed in favor of the mNB, just sayin. I know you make an effort to be as objective as you can, so:

1) The NB can reset the fight in a 1v1 vs. a mDK using Cloak? O.o Volatile Armor passively counters Cloak (+Grothdar/Skoria on the majority of mDKs). Dropping an Ult on a mDK resets the fight just as well (and more reliably) as a NB attempting to Cloak.

2) Agreed mobility is very important. I'm trying to not bring up non-class abilities cause we're comparing classes, but it should be noted that every mDK has Elusive mist, so they do have a measure of mobility. And all builds use non-class abilities.

4) mDK CC also has a very powerful after affect especially against a magicka build.

5) mDK also has easy access to major evasion and soon as they 5/1/1.

6) If the majority of mDKs stacked as much damage as most mNBs have to, whip's tooltip would also be over 8k.

I'm pretty new to mDK myself, but these are some things that I've noticed.

pieratsos · December 2016

The_Outsider wrote: »

1) The NB can reset the fight in a 1v1 vs. a mDK using Cloak? O.o Volatile Armor passively counters Cloak (+Grothdar/Skoria on the majority of mDKs). Dropping an Ult on a mDK resets the fight just as well (and more reliably) as a NB attempting to Cloak.

2) Agreed mobility is very important. I'm trying to not bring up non-class abilities cause we're comparing classes, but it should be noted that every mDK has Elusive mist, so they do have a measure of mobility. And all builds use non-class abilities.

4) mDK CC also has a very powerful after affect especially against a magicka build.

5) mDK also has easy access to major evasion and soon as they 5/1/1.

6) If the majority of mDKs stacked as much damage as most mNBs have to, whip's tooltip would also be over 8k.

I'm pretty new to mDK myself, but these are some things that I've noticed.

1) In a 1v1 scenario unless the DK runs detect pots u can cloak for days. Just fear. by the time they cc break u are already invisible. And there is also shadow image too. Volatile isnt gonna do anything. And seriously dropping an ult will reset the fight? You are comparing cloak vs ult? how does that even make sense. Yeah you are right. Its gonna reset the fight, its also gonna drop ur only chance to burst down ur opponent. DK doesnt really have a lot of burst u know to kill people. they need the ult.

2) The only source of mobility on a DK is mist form. Which is not even used in a 1v1 scenario cause they need to slot other abilities. NB doesnt have to look outside of the class for mobility. You have major expedition, cloak and shadow image in ur class. You can literally kite a DK for days if u want to. Its not like they have a reliable gap closer to keep you in range and even if they did they prob wouldnt use it since they dont really have flex spots on their bar.

5 -6) Only source for major evasion on a DK is shuffle. Which costs a lot of stamina. The DK also needs stamina for blocking. So explain me again how is the DK suppose to go full dmg when they have to invest into stamina. NB has major evasion that doesnt drain ur stamina and u can stack everything into magicka and get ur survivability with shields. Their passives also give more magicka and hp. And they dont need to drop ults to get stam and mag back. They can just use siphoning.

Sharee · December 2016

The_Outsider wrote: »

1) The NB can reset the fight in a 1v1 vs. a mDK using Cloak? O.o Volatile Armor passively counters Cloak (+Grothdar/Skoria on the majority of mDKs).

Oh come on. Port to shade -> cloak. There is zero that a DK can do to stop that. You can even port up a cliff or through a wall if you really want to rub it in.

rteezy · December 2016

i have VERY limited exp with my magdk and pvp overall BUT i can tell you this, there is no "outplaying" a NB as a magdk.All you can do is wait/hope for the NB to mess up and THEN (and only THEN) take advantage of it.IT seems as if any semi-decent NB would have zero xcuses to lose to a magdk.

NOW, mentioning 1v1 in an mmo is also pointless and counter intuitive to the very nature of the genre.MMOS wont Ever be balanced 1v1, its impossible and that is fine.

pieratsos · December 2016

rteezy wrote: »

i have VERY limited exp with my magdk and pvp overall BUT i can tell you this, there is no "outplaying" a NB as a magdk.All you can do is wait/hope for the NB to mess up and THEN (and only THEN) take advantage of it.IT seems as if any semi-decent NB would have zero xcuses to lose to a magdk.

NOW, mentioning 1v1 in an mmo is also pointless and counter intuitive to the very nature of the genre.MMOS wont Ever be balanced 1v1, its impossible and that is fine.

Tell that to the people complaining about mDK buffs before they even happen because they are already "very good in 1v1". First sorcs whining because mDK is a hard counter to their build as if they only have frags and crushing shock on their bar. Now NB whining about hard counters as if they only have swallow soul and assassins will on their bar. Maybe templars will be next whining because DK can reflect dark flare. Who knows maybe even stam builds will start whining because DK can reflect poison injection.

kadar · December 2016

pieratsos wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

1) The NB can reset the fight in a 1v1 vs. a mDK using Cloak? O.o Volatile Armor passively counters Cloak (+Grothdar/Skoria on the majority of mDKs). Dropping an Ult on a mDK resets the fight just as well (and more reliably) as a NB attempting to Cloak.

2) Agreed mobility is very important. I'm trying to not bring up non-class abilities cause we're comparing classes, but it should be noted that every mDK has Elusive mist, so they do have a measure of mobility. And all builds use non-class abilities.

4) mDK CC also has a very powerful after affect especially against a magicka build.

5) mDK also has easy access to major evasion and soon as they 5/1/1.

6) If the majority of mDKs stacked as much damage as most mNBs have to, whip's tooltip would also be over 8k.

I'm pretty new to mDK myself, but these are some things that I've noticed.

1) In a 1v1 scenario unless the DK runs detect pots u can cloak for days. Just fear. by the time they cc break u are already invisible. And there is also shadow image too. Volatile isnt gonna do anything. And seriously dropping an ult will reset the fight? You are comparing cloak vs ult? how does that even make sense. Yeah you are right. Its gonna reset the fight, its also gonna drop ur only chance to burst down ur opponent. DK doesnt really have a lot of burst u know to kill people. they need the ult.

2) The only source of mobility on a DK is mist form. Which is not even used in a 1v1 scenario cause they need to slot other abilities. NB doesnt have to look outside of the class for mobility. You have major expedition, cloak and shadow image in ur class. You can literally kite a DK for days if u want to. Its not like they have a reliable gap closer to keep you in range and even if they did they prob wouldnt use it since they dont really have flex spots on their bar.

5 -6) Only source for major evasion on a DK is shuffle. Which costs a lot of stamina. The DK also needs stamina for blocking. So explain me again how is the DK suppose to go full dmg when they have to invest into stamina. NB has major evasion that doesnt drain ur stamina and u can stack everything into magicka and get ur survivability with shields. Their passives also give more magicka and hp. And they dont need to drop ults to get stam and mag back. They can just use siphoning.

Sharee wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

1) The NB can reset the fight in a 1v1 vs. a mDK using Cloak? O.o Volatile Armor passively counters Cloak (+Grothdar/Skoria on the majority of mDKs).

Oh come on. Port to shade -> cloak. There is zero that a DK can do to stop that. You can even port up a cliff or through a wall if you really want to rub it in.

@Sharee @pieratsos
You guys, we are trying to compare two builds for a 1v1 matchup. What you are doing, is tailoring a hypothetical situation to match what you already believe to be true: that mNB > mDK. We can spout off counters to each other's counters all day long. I can come up with a hypothetical build that completely negates anything a mNB can do, and you can come up with one that negates the DK. We all know how to play the game. My comment was in reply to Joy's list of 9 things, that leaned very heavily in favor of the hypothetical mNB in a non-objective way.

Example:

And they dont need to drop ults to get stam and mag back. They can just use siphoning.

This should read: mDKs regen stam and mag by dropping Ults, while mNBs use siphoning.

pieratsos · December 2016

The_Outsider wrote: »

@Sharee @pieratsos
You guys, we are trying to compare two builds for a 1v1 matchup. What you are doing, is tailoring a hypothetical situation to match what you already believe to be true: that mNB > mDK. We can spout off counters to each other's counters all day long. I can come up with a hypothetical build that completely negates anything a mNB can do, and you can come up with one that negates the DK. We all know how to play the game. My comment was in reply to Joy's list of 9 things, that leaned very heavily in favor of the hypothetical mNB in a non-objective way.

Example:

And they dont need to drop ults to get stam and mag back. They can just use siphoning.

This should read: mDKs regen stam and mag by dropping Ults, while mNBs use siphoning.

Im not saying a NB is better than a DK in a 1v1 situation. Im just pointing out that a DK is not a hardcounter to NB as some people think.

You are saying that joy listed 9 things in favor of a NB in a non objective way but u replied with the exact same way. You said a DK can have major evasion and that if they invest as much into dmg then whip tooltip will be high. So what you basically said is sure u have evasion, u just need to invest into stamina but dont complain why ur dmg is low, its just because u dont invest into dmg. Does that look objective to you ?
Same applies for the other things you said. You cant possibly compare the mobility of the two classes or say that volatile is a counter to cloak in 1v1 or that the DK has the same capabilities of resetting a fight as a NB.

Joy_Division · December 2016

The_Outsider wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

So why dont you slot a melee ability incase you run into a mDK? You have concealed dont you?

I am *** sick of the argument that wings is too strong because YOU chose to play ranged with no melee attacks. All the *** snipers back in 1.5 whined and whined and whined about wings because they ran 2xbow and wondered why they couldnt do dmg and it got nerfed severely.

It's your decision to run full range, so pay the consequences.

Well if I go melee than I will be stuck in talons the whole fight. Also if you go destro concealed your burst still comes from assasins will which you can't kill a mag dk without. So your main burst will still be reflected. I'm also not asking for a nerf to wings I'm just saying you have to be crazy if you don't think it's a huge advantage against certain classes. I'm fine with certain classes having advantages over others, but I'm not going to act like wings aren't a complete counter to ranged builds in 1v1.(Lol what's the point of using a destro staff if you make your spammable a melee ranged attack)

tbh, since NB has fear, you can easily time it with their wings recast to open up a burst window long enough to get a assassin's will off and a soul harvest

That's usually what I do but normally the soul harvest will be block because assassins will has a cast time so against a dk I usually go the meteor route. But that's still a hard counter in my book because if I can one shot him he will eventually be able to punch through me with his battle roar passive and crazy crowd control.

BuggeX wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

if you die to a mDK as mNB you do something wrong

If you can explain to me what advantages I have against a mag dk in a 1v1 besides running away I'm all ears, maybe you know something I don't. Because as far as I can see a mag dk is a complete counter class to magblade. As long as he is competent enough to keep his wings up I can't touch him. I'm basically waiting for a one shot opportunity and hoping I have the burst to finish him. Running away is not a counter. Mag dk is a beast 1v1 in general

When you are in trouble, you can cloak and reset the fight. The DK cannot.

You poo poo mobility as if it is not important. It is.

Soul Harvest ultimate is a fantastic 1v1. Or are you going to tell me the DK dropping a banner is more dangerous?

Your CC has a very powerful aftereffect and makes your opponent 100% vulnerable to your burst. His CC actually shields you of some damage.

You have easy and convenient access to major evasion. The DK has to design their build around it.

You have abilities that actually do more than 8K tooltip.

The DK is much more dependent on his stamina pool than you are because DKs defense = block.

Your class gives you better stats and regen.

The fact that you can "wait for a one shot opportunity to finish him" is rather important. DKs are waiting for you to play poorly or run out of resources so they can wet noodle you to death.

I understand mNB isn't exactly the bees knees in PvP atm and that the DK also have some advanatges over you. However, the fact you aren't willing to acknowledge there aren't things that you can do better tells me you aren't looking at this objectively or honestly.

Joy, some of those points seem veryyyy skewed in favor of the mNB, just sayin. I know you make an effort to be as objective as you can, so:

1) The NB can reset the fight in a 1v1 vs. a mDK using Cloak? O.o Volatile Armor passively counters Cloak (+Grothdar/Skoria on the majority of mDKs). Dropping an Ult on a mDK resets the fight just as well (and more reliably) as a NB attempting to Cloak.

2) Agreed mobility is very important. I'm trying to not bring up non-class abilities cause we're comparing classes, but it should be noted that every mDK has Elusive mist, so they do have a measure of mobility. And all builds use non-class abilities.

4) mDK CC also has a very powerful after affect especially against a magicka build.

5) mDK also has easy access to major evasion and soon as they 5/1/1.

6) If the majority of mDKs stacked as much damage as most mNBs have to, whip's tooltip would also be over 8k.

I'm pretty new to mDK myself, but these are some things that I've noticed.

This is not what you said before.

If you can explain to me what advantages I have against a mag dk in a 1v1 besides running away I'm all ears, maybe you know something I don't.

Now all of a sudden there are advantages. Now I am skewing them. And you're not? LOL come on.

If as a mNB you cant cloak away from a volatile DK, that's an L2P issue.

Every DK does not have elusive mist.

Fear is the best CC skill in the game. You asked for mNB advantages.

Shuffle is not easy access to major evasion. It requires a specific build and CP distribution because it's a high stam cost.

That's the thing, DKs have a hard time stacking damage because they're banging their head against Battlespirit and powerful enemy shields/HoTs and DKs need to invest in block.

Every class has advantages over other classes. It is completely disingenuous to refuse to recognize them.

Sharee · December 2016

The_Outsider wrote: »

What you are doing, is tailoring a hypothetical situation...

Me "tailoring" a NB to have shade slotted is not any worse than you "tailoring" every DK as having mistform or grothdar/skoria or volatile armor. So pot, kettle etc.

kadar · December 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

So why dont you slot a melee ability incase you run into a mDK? You have concealed dont you?

I am *** sick of the argument that wings is too strong because YOU chose to play ranged with no melee attacks. All the *** snipers back in 1.5 whined and whined and whined about wings because they ran 2xbow and wondered why they couldnt do dmg and it got nerfed severely.

It's your decision to run full range, so pay the consequences.

Well if I go melee than I will be stuck in talons the whole fight. Also if you go destro concealed your burst still comes from assasins will which you can't kill a mag dk without. So your main burst will still be reflected. I'm also not asking for a nerf to wings I'm just saying you have to be crazy if you don't think it's a huge advantage against certain classes. I'm fine with certain classes having advantages over others, but I'm not going to act like wings aren't a complete counter to ranged builds in 1v1.(Lol what's the point of using a destro staff if you make your spammable a melee ranged attack)

tbh, since NB has fear, you can easily time it with their wings recast to open up a burst window long enough to get a assassin's will off and a soul harvest

That's usually what I do but normally the soul harvest will be block because assassins will has a cast time so against a dk I usually go the meteor route. But that's still a hard counter in my book because if I can one shot him he will eventually be able to punch through me with his battle roar passive and crazy crowd control.

BuggeX wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

if you die to a mDK as mNB you do something wrong

If you can explain to me what advantages I have against a mag dk in a 1v1 besides running away I'm all ears, maybe you know something I don't. Because as far as I can see a mag dk is a complete counter class to magblade. As long as he is competent enough to keep his wings up I can't touch him. I'm basically waiting for a one shot opportunity and hoping I have the burst to finish him. Running away is not a counter. Mag dk is a beast 1v1 in general

When you are in trouble, you can cloak and reset the fight. The DK cannot.

You poo poo mobility as if it is not important. It is.

Soul Harvest ultimate is a fantastic 1v1. Or are you going to tell me the DK dropping a banner is more dangerous?

Your CC has a very powerful aftereffect and makes your opponent 100% vulnerable to your burst. His CC actually shields you of some damage.

You have easy and convenient access to major evasion. The DK has to design their build around it.

You have abilities that actually do more than 8K tooltip.

The DK is much more dependent on his stamina pool than you are because DKs defense = block.

Your class gives you better stats and regen.

The fact that you can "wait for a one shot opportunity to finish him" is rather important. DKs are waiting for you to play poorly or run out of resources so they can wet noodle you to death.

I understand mNB isn't exactly the bees knees in PvP atm and that the DK also have some advanatges over you. However, the fact you aren't willing to acknowledge there aren't things that you can do better tells me you aren't looking at this objectively or honestly.

Joy, some of those points seem veryyyy skewed in favor of the mNB, just sayin. I know you make an effort to be as objective as you can, so:

1) The NB can reset the fight in a 1v1 vs. a mDK using Cloak? O.o Volatile Armor passively counters Cloak (+Grothdar/Skoria on the majority of mDKs). Dropping an Ult on a mDK resets the fight just as well (and more reliably) as a NB attempting to Cloak.

2) Agreed mobility is very important. I'm trying to not bring up non-class abilities cause we're comparing classes, but it should be noted that every mDK has Elusive mist, so they do have a measure of mobility. And all builds use non-class abilities.

4) mDK CC also has a very powerful after affect especially against a magicka build.

5) mDK also has easy access to major evasion and soon as they 5/1/1.

6) If the majority of mDKs stacked as much damage as most mNBs have to, whip's tooltip would also be over 8k.

I'm pretty new to mDK myself, but these are some things that I've noticed.

This is not what you said before.

If you can explain to me what advantages I have against a mag dk in a 1v1 besides running away I'm all ears, maybe you know something I don't.

Now all of a sudden there are advantages. Now I am skewing them. And you're not? LOL come on.

If as a mNB you cant cloak away from a volatile DK, that's an L2P issue.

Every DK does not have elusive mist.

Fear is the best CC skill in the game. You asked for mNB advantages.

Shuffle is not easy access to major evasion. It requires a specific build and CP distribution because it's a high stam cost.

That's the thing, DKs have a hard time stacking damage because they're banging their head against Battlespirit and powerful enemy shields/HoTs and DKs need to invest in block.

Every class has advantages over other classes. It is completely disingenuous to refuse to recognize them.

@Joy_Division , this is a miscommunication, I definitely did not say that.

My comment was strictly in reply to your list of 9 advantages, and the fact that a few of them either left out pertinent information or were made with some hyperbole. Some other guy asked for those advantages. I've very familiar with said advantages, playing both a Stamina NB and a Magicka DK quite regularly.

I think we can agree that what ppl are tying to do in this thread: compare two magicka classes in a hypothetical 1v1 is VERY hard to do without bias. @pieratsos , what I tried to do with my comment was show that some of those 9 statements were biased, and point out the other side of the coin that was either intentionally or unintentionally omitted. It was intended to get closer to the truth by showing the other side (the side that favors mDK) of the coin.

For instance:

Every DK does not have elusive mist.

To which I could reply, "Every NB does not have Dark Cloak." Both true statements, both mean little. Or:

Fear is the best CC skill in the game.

To which I could reply: Fossilize is the best CC in the game (being that the context of this scenario is a 1v1 where you're opponent is a mNB, to be free of it's effects it requires both a break free AND either a roll dodge or purge/snare removal of some sort).

My point is, to banter back and forth like this coming up with one hypothetical after another does little to address actual class balance. I think it's worth the effort to make sure that the statements you are making as fact, are actually fact and not opinion, exaggeration, or only a partial truth.

kadar · December 2016

Sharee wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

What you are doing, is tailoring a hypothetical situation...

Me "tailoring" a NB to have shade slotted is not any worse than you "tailoring" every DK as having mistform or grothdar/skoria or volatile armor. So pot, kettle etc.

That's exactly my point, if you read my ^reply to Joy. You have to look at the capabilities of both classes and not just 1.

Sharee · December 2016

The_Outsider wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

What you are doing, is tailoring a hypothetical situation...

Me "tailoring" a NB to have shade slotted is not any worse than you "tailoring" every DK as having mistform or grothdar/skoria or volatile armor. So pot, kettle etc.

That's exactly my point, if you read my ^reply to Joy. You have to look at the capabilities of both classes and not just 1.

I am looking at capabilities of both classes.

There is no capability in the whole mDK arsenal of abilities that could prevent a NB from resetting the fight by porting to shade and cloaking. End of story.

Ishammael · December 2016

The_Outsider wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

So why dont you slot a melee ability incase you run into a mDK? You have concealed dont you?

I am *** sick of the argument that wings is too strong because YOU chose to play ranged with no melee attacks. All the *** snipers back in 1.5 whined and whined and whined about wings because they ran 2xbow and wondered why they couldnt do dmg and it got nerfed severely.

It's your decision to run full range, so pay the consequences.

Well if I go melee than I will be stuck in talons the whole fight. Also if you go destro concealed your burst still comes from assasins will which you can't kill a mag dk without. So your main burst will still be reflected. I'm also not asking for a nerf to wings I'm just saying you have to be crazy if you don't think it's a huge advantage against certain classes. I'm fine with certain classes having advantages over others, but I'm not going to act like wings aren't a complete counter to ranged builds in 1v1.(Lol what's the point of using a destro staff if you make your spammable a melee ranged attack)

tbh, since NB has fear, you can easily time it with their wings recast to open up a burst window long enough to get a assassin's will off and a soul harvest

That's usually what I do but normally the soul harvest will be block because assassins will has a cast time so against a dk I usually go the meteor route. But that's still a hard counter in my book because if I can one shot him he will eventually be able to punch through me with his battle roar passive and crazy crowd control.

BuggeX wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

if you die to a mDK as mNB you do something wrong

If you can explain to me what advantages I have against a mag dk in a 1v1 besides running away I'm all ears, maybe you know something I don't. Because as far as I can see a mag dk is a complete counter class to magblade. As long as he is competent enough to keep his wings up I can't touch him. I'm basically waiting for a one shot opportunity and hoping I have the burst to finish him. Running away is not a counter. Mag dk is a beast 1v1 in general

When you are in trouble, you can cloak and reset the fight. The DK cannot.

You poo poo mobility as if it is not important. It is.

Soul Harvest ultimate is a fantastic 1v1. Or are you going to tell me the DK dropping a banner is more dangerous?

Your CC has a very powerful aftereffect and makes your opponent 100% vulnerable to your burst. His CC actually shields you of some damage.

You have easy and convenient access to major evasion. The DK has to design their build around it.

You have abilities that actually do more than 8K tooltip.

The DK is much more dependent on his stamina pool than you are because DKs defense = block.

Your class gives you better stats and regen.

The fact that you can "wait for a one shot opportunity to finish him" is rather important. DKs are waiting for you to play poorly or run out of resources so they can wet noodle you to death.

I understand mNB isn't exactly the bees knees in PvP atm and that the DK also have some advanatges over you. However, the fact you aren't willing to acknowledge there aren't things that you can do better tells me you aren't looking at this objectively or honestly.

Joy, some of those points seem veryyyy skewed in favor of the mNB, just sayin. I know you make an effort to be as objective as you can, so:

1) The NB can reset the fight in a 1v1 vs. a mDK using Cloak? O.o Volatile Armor passively counters Cloak (+Grothdar/Skoria on the majority of mDKs). Dropping an Ult on a mDK resets the fight just as well (and more reliably) as a NB attempting to Cloak.

2) Agreed mobility is very important. I'm trying to not bring up non-class abilities cause we're comparing classes, but it should be noted that every mDK has Elusive mist, so they do have a measure of mobility. And all builds use non-class abilities.

4) mDK CC also has a very powerful after affect especially against a magicka build.

5) mDK also has easy access to major evasion and soon as they 5/1/1.

6) If the majority of mDKs stacked as much damage as most mNBs have to, whip's tooltip would also be over 8k.

I'm pretty new to mDK myself, but these are some things that I've noticed.

This is not what you said before.

If you can explain to me what advantages I have against a mag dk in a 1v1 besides running away I'm all ears, maybe you know something I don't.

Now all of a sudden there are advantages. Now I am skewing them. And you're not? LOL come on.

If as a mNB you cant cloak away from a volatile DK, that's an L2P issue.

Every DK does not have elusive mist.

Fear is the best CC skill in the game. You asked for mNB advantages.

Shuffle is not easy access to major evasion. It requires a specific build and CP distribution because it's a high stam cost.

That's the thing, DKs have a hard time stacking damage because they're banging their head against Battlespirit and powerful enemy shields/HoTs and DKs need to invest in block.

Every class has advantages over other classes. It is completely disingenuous to refuse to recognize them.

@Joy_Division , this is a miscommunication, I definitely did not say that.

My comment was strictly in reply to your list of 9 advantages, and the fact that a few of them either left out pertinent information or were made with some hyperbole. Some other guy asked for those advantages. I've very familiar with said advantages, playing both a Stamina NB and a Magicka DK quite regularly.

I think we can agree that what ppl are tying to do in this thread: compare two magicka classes in a hypothetical 1v1 is VERY hard to do without bias. @pieratsos , what I tried to do with my comment was show that some of those 9 statements were biased, and point out the other side of the coin that was either intentionally or unintentionally omitted. It was intended to get closer to the truth by showing the other side (the side that favors mDK) of the coin.

For instance:

Every DK does not have elusive mist.

To which I could reply, "Every NB does not have Dark Cloak." Both true statements, both mean little. Or:

Fear is the best CC skill in the game.

To which I could reply: Fossilize is the best CC in the game (being that the context of this scenario is a 1v1 where you're opponent is a mNB, to be free of it's effects it requires both a break free AND either a roll dodge or purge/snare removal of some sort).

My point is, to banter back and forth like this coming up with one hypothetical after another does little to address actual class balance. I think it's worth the effort to make sure that the statements you are making as fact, are actually fact and not opinion, exaggeration, or only a partial truth.

You're arguing semantics while @Joy_Division is arguing the point.
For example, Fear is prove-ably better than Fossilize. It hits 3 targets, goes through block, doesn't give the opponent a free shield, AND increases your dmg against them.

Regardless, a mNB should not be losing to a mDK in a duel. This isn't a hypothetical point. The "mDK is good in 1v1" viewpoint is totally overblown.

thankyourat · December 2016

Mag dk is probably the best class 1v1 proc sets excluded. It's a juggernaut. As for a magblade you can kite all day but you aren't killing a dk when wings are up period. Pretty much any experienced magblade will tell you that mag dk is a counter class. If you are a mag dk and your are losing to a magblade 1v1 you did something wrong. A magblade can't put any real pressure on a mag dk. And if you don't have the damage to one shot them you a fighting a uphill battle. Now if we want to argue that the nightblade class is more thought out and well implemented I would agree with that. Or even that magblade has more useful abilities and is useful in more situations in open world cyrodiil I would agree with that as well. But in a 1v1 situation a mag dk if played well should beat a magblade most of the time. fear is a great cc but it's just that a cc you aren't killing anyone with fear they will just cc break and cast wings if not already up. It's incredibly difficult to beat a mag dk for a magblade

Joy_Division · December 2016

The_Outsider wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

So why dont you slot a melee ability incase you run into a mDK? You have concealed dont you?

I am *** sick of the argument that wings is too strong because YOU chose to play ranged with no melee attacks. All the *** snipers back in 1.5 whined and whined and whined about wings because they ran 2xbow and wondered why they couldnt do dmg and it got nerfed severely.

It's your decision to run full range, so pay the consequences.

Well if I go melee than I will be stuck in talons the whole fight. Also if you go destro concealed your burst still comes from assasins will which you can't kill a mag dk without. So your main burst will still be reflected. I'm also not asking for a nerf to wings I'm just saying you have to be crazy if you don't think it's a huge advantage against certain classes. I'm fine with certain classes having advantages over others, but I'm not going to act like wings aren't a complete counter to ranged builds in 1v1.(Lol what's the point of using a destro staff if you make your spammable a melee ranged attack)

tbh, since NB has fear, you can easily time it with their wings recast to open up a burst window long enough to get a assassin's will off and a soul harvest

That's usually what I do but normally the soul harvest will be block because assassins will has a cast time so against a dk I usually go the meteor route. But that's still a hard counter in my book because if I can one shot him he will eventually be able to punch through me with his battle roar passive and crazy crowd control.

BuggeX wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

if you die to a mDK as mNB you do something wrong

If you can explain to me what advantages I have against a mag dk in a 1v1 besides running away I'm all ears, maybe you know something I don't. Because as far as I can see a mag dk is a complete counter class to magblade. As long as he is competent enough to keep his wings up I can't touch him. I'm basically waiting for a one shot opportunity and hoping I have the burst to finish him. Running away is not a counter. Mag dk is a beast 1v1 in general

When you are in trouble, you can cloak and reset the fight. The DK cannot.

You poo poo mobility as if it is not important. It is.

Soul Harvest ultimate is a fantastic 1v1. Or are you going to tell me the DK dropping a banner is more dangerous?

Your CC has a very powerful aftereffect and makes your opponent 100% vulnerable to your burst. His CC actually shields you of some damage.

You have easy and convenient access to major evasion. The DK has to design their build around it.

You have abilities that actually do more than 8K tooltip.

The DK is much more dependent on his stamina pool than you are because DKs defense = block.

Your class gives you better stats and regen.

The fact that you can "wait for a one shot opportunity to finish him" is rather important. DKs are waiting for you to play poorly or run out of resources so they can wet noodle you to death.

I understand mNB isn't exactly the bees knees in PvP atm and that the DK also have some advanatges over you. However, the fact you aren't willing to acknowledge there aren't things that you can do better tells me you aren't looking at this objectively or honestly.

Joy, some of those points seem veryyyy skewed in favor of the mNB, just sayin. I know you make an effort to be as objective as you can, so:

1) The NB can reset the fight in a 1v1 vs. a mDK using Cloak? O.o Volatile Armor passively counters Cloak (+Grothdar/Skoria on the majority of mDKs). Dropping an Ult on a mDK resets the fight just as well (and more reliably) as a NB attempting to Cloak.

2) Agreed mobility is very important. I'm trying to not bring up non-class abilities cause we're comparing classes, but it should be noted that every mDK has Elusive mist, so they do have a measure of mobility. And all builds use non-class abilities.

4) mDK CC also has a very powerful after affect especially against a magicka build.

5) mDK also has easy access to major evasion and soon as they 5/1/1.

6) If the majority of mDKs stacked as much damage as most mNBs have to, whip's tooltip would also be over 8k.

I'm pretty new to mDK myself, but these are some things that I've noticed.

This is not what you said before.

If you can explain to me what advantages I have against a mag dk in a 1v1 besides running away I'm all ears, maybe you know something I don't.

Now all of a sudden there are advantages. Now I am skewing them. And you're not? LOL come on.

If as a mNB you cant cloak away from a volatile DK, that's an L2P issue.

Every DK does not have elusive mist.

Fear is the best CC skill in the game. You asked for mNB advantages.

Shuffle is not easy access to major evasion. It requires a specific build and CP distribution because it's a high stam cost.

That's the thing, DKs have a hard time stacking damage because they're banging their head against Battlespirit and powerful enemy shields/HoTs and DKs need to invest in block.

Every class has advantages over other classes. It is completely disingenuous to refuse to recognize them.

@Joy_Division , this is a miscommunication, I definitely did not say that.

My comment was strictly in reply to your list of 9 advantages, and the fact that a few of them either left out pertinent information or were made with some hyperbole. Some other guy asked for those advantages. I've very familiar with said advantages, playing both a Stamina NB and a Magicka DK quite regularly.

I think we can agree that what ppl are tying to do in this thread: compare two magicka classes in a hypothetical 1v1 is VERY hard to do without bias. @pieratsos , what I tried to do with my comment was show that some of those 9 statements were biased, and point out the other side of the coin that was either intentionally or unintentionally omitted. It was intended to get closer to the truth by showing the other side (the side that favors mDK) of the coin.

For instance:

Every DK does not have elusive mist.

To which I could reply, "Every NB does not have Dark Cloak." Both true statements, both mean little. Or:

Fear is the best CC skill in the game.

To which I could reply: Fossilize is the best CC in the game (being that the context of this scenario is a 1v1 where you're opponent is a mNB, to be free of it's effects it requires both a break free AND either a roll dodge or purge/snare removal of some sort).

My point is, to banter back and forth like this coming up with one hypothetical after another does little to address actual class balance. I think it's worth the effort to make sure that the statements you are making as fact, are actually fact and not opinion, exaggeration, or only a partial truth.

My bad @The_Outsider , you did not say that.

However, you want an discussion based on facts, yet you are trying to tell me that a DK not having elusive mist - it's not a class skill is equivalent to a NB not having dark cloak? Come on. My DK is not a vampire so it is impossible for me to access the skill!

And Ish is right about fear.

I am not trying to compare magicka classes in a 1v1. I was responding to an outlandish statement made by someone that NBs have zero advantages over a DK. I provided a list that is, albeit generalized, nevertheless is reflective of what typically happens in Cyordiil on a day to day basis. Just because they aren't 100% the case doesn't mean I am biased or engaging in hyperbole. Each class does have things it does well and better than others.

Should I act play the specious game as are and contend that templars do not have the advantage when it comes to healing?

Valencer · December 2016

They could start by making dragon blood not suck and then toning down burning embers again. Maybe also tone down the Flame Lash heal a bit (assuming dragon blood ends up NOT sucking)

Also get rid of stupid things like the wings projectile limit. It doesnt change the class at all in 1v1s and just makes DKs not as easy to Xv1. Good change right there.

In fact, get rid of most of the skill nerfs they did pre-1.6 too... give talons back its' 8m radius (atm encase > talons for CC purposes). They already did this with inhale since its cap was nerfed from 6 to 3 shortly after release and finally upped to 6 again with... TG I think?

Please don't give mag DKs the stam sorc treatment. Nobody likes fighting stam sorcs atm and for good reason

Kyye · December 2016

Saint_Bud wrote: »

The problem of mdk tankynes is simple. Blocking coast stam and playing magicka means no great stam pool. No stam no blocking no break free means fast dying.

Literally my only issue. Wouldn't mind a short HoT or burst heal for dragons blood. Just make it magicka based since everything is all cp anyways. But in bwb my issue was break free.

Here's a good one, heal for 2k before crit every 3 seconds while active and 6% chance when dealt damage to cause an eruption that deals execute damage. And add 20% stam and magicka while slotted. Hell, reduce ulti passive? #stamsorcsalt

Ishammael · December 2016

thankyourat wrote: »

Mag dk is probably the best class 1v1 proc sets excluded. It's a juggernaut. As for a magblade you can kite all day but you aren't killing a dk when wings are up period. Pretty much any experienced magblade will tell you that mag dk is a counter class. If you are a mag dk and your are losing to a magblade 1v1 you did something wrong. A magblade can't put any real pressure on a mag dk. And if you don't have the damage to one shot them you a fighting a uphill battle. Now if we want to argue that the nightblade class is more thought out and well implemented I would agree with that. Or even that magblade has more useful abilities and is useful in more situations in open world cyrodiil I would agree with that as well. But in a 1v1 situation a mag dk if played well should beat a magblade most of the time. fear is a great cc but it's just that a cc you aren't killing anyone with fear they will just cc break and cast wings if not already up. It's incredibly difficult to beat a mag dk for a magblade

You stand up too many straw men here.
"...proc sets excluded."
"...don't have the dmg to one-shot them."
"...you aren't killing anyone with fear."

incognito222 · December 2016

For those of us who are fretting, I do not understand why we are complaining about unknown changes to magicka dk. Unknown being the key word. Logically, would you complain / protest over something unknown? Its premature IMO.

If we think magicka dk is fine as it is, seriously play one in pvp DAILY for at least a week and its likely you will understand why the majority have expressed disappointment with it.

In comparison, there are classes that have glaring superiority over other classes on live. Why not address those instead of beating on an already underperforming class? ZOS knows this and that is why they're making adjustments accordingly.

Those people with videos of demigod magika dk's are good because of their personal skill and well thought out builds. Give them any class and they will shine.
Fun fact : its likely for most of them, magicka dk is not currently (or no longer) their main.

I have one of each class and play them all. I've said it before : pvp magicka dk is hard mode in comparison to all the remaining classes. Try it, its a fun challenge.

kadar · December 2016

Ishammael wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

So why dont you slot a melee ability incase you run into a mDK? You have concealed dont you?

I am *** sick of the argument that wings is too strong because YOU chose to play ranged with no melee attacks. All the *** snipers back in 1.5 whined and whined and whined about wings because they ran 2xbow and wondered why they couldnt do dmg and it got nerfed severely.

It's your decision to run full range, so pay the consequences.

Well if I go melee than I will be stuck in talons the whole fight. Also if you go destro concealed your burst still comes from assasins will which you can't kill a mag dk without. So your main burst will still be reflected. I'm also not asking for a nerf to wings I'm just saying you have to be crazy if you don't think it's a huge advantage against certain classes. I'm fine with certain classes having advantages over others, but I'm not going to act like wings aren't a complete counter to ranged builds in 1v1.(Lol what's the point of using a destro staff if you make your spammable a melee ranged attack)

tbh, since NB has fear, you can easily time it with their wings recast to open up a burst window long enough to get a assassin's will off and a soul harvest

That's usually what I do but normally the soul harvest will be block because assassins will has a cast time so against a dk I usually go the meteor route. But that's still a hard counter in my book because if I can one shot him he will eventually be able to punch through me with his battle roar passive and crazy crowd control.

BuggeX wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

if you die to a mDK as mNB you do something wrong

If you can explain to me what advantages I have against a mag dk in a 1v1 besides running away I'm all ears, maybe you know something I don't. Because as far as I can see a mag dk is a complete counter class to magblade. As long as he is competent enough to keep his wings up I can't touch him. I'm basically waiting for a one shot opportunity and hoping I have the burst to finish him. Running away is not a counter. Mag dk is a beast 1v1 in general

When you are in trouble, you can cloak and reset the fight. The DK cannot.

You poo poo mobility as if it is not important. It is.

Soul Harvest ultimate is a fantastic 1v1. Or are you going to tell me the DK dropping a banner is more dangerous?

Your CC has a very powerful aftereffect and makes your opponent 100% vulnerable to your burst. His CC actually shields you of some damage.

You have easy and convenient access to major evasion. The DK has to design their build around it.

You have abilities that actually do more than 8K tooltip.

The DK is much more dependent on his stamina pool than you are because DKs defense = block.

Your class gives you better stats and regen.

The fact that you can "wait for a one shot opportunity to finish him" is rather important. DKs are waiting for you to play poorly or run out of resources so they can wet noodle you to death.

I understand mNB isn't exactly the bees knees in PvP atm and that the DK also have some advanatges over you. However, the fact you aren't willing to acknowledge there aren't things that you can do better tells me you aren't looking at this objectively or honestly.

Joy, some of those points seem veryyyy skewed in favor of the mNB, just sayin. I know you make an effort to be as objective as you can, so:

1) The NB can reset the fight in a 1v1 vs. a mDK using Cloak? O.o Volatile Armor passively counters Cloak (+Grothdar/Skoria on the majority of mDKs). Dropping an Ult on a mDK resets the fight just as well (and more reliably) as a NB attempting to Cloak.

2) Agreed mobility is very important. I'm trying to not bring up non-class abilities cause we're comparing classes, but it should be noted that every mDK has Elusive mist, so they do have a measure of mobility. And all builds use non-class abilities.

4) mDK CC also has a very powerful after affect especially against a magicka build.

5) mDK also has easy access to major evasion and soon as they 5/1/1.

6) If the majority of mDKs stacked as much damage as most mNBs have to, whip's tooltip would also be over 8k.

I'm pretty new to mDK myself, but these are some things that I've noticed.

This is not what you said before.

If you can explain to me what advantages I have against a mag dk in a 1v1 besides running away I'm all ears, maybe you know something I don't.

Now all of a sudden there are advantages. Now I am skewing them. And you're not? LOL come on.

If as a mNB you cant cloak away from a volatile DK, that's an L2P issue.

Every DK does not have elusive mist.

Fear is the best CC skill in the game. You asked for mNB advantages.

Shuffle is not easy access to major evasion. It requires a specific build and CP distribution because it's a high stam cost.

That's the thing, DKs have a hard time stacking damage because they're banging their head against Battlespirit and powerful enemy shields/HoTs and DKs need to invest in block.

Every class has advantages over other classes. It is completely disingenuous to refuse to recognize them.

@Joy_Division , this is a miscommunication, I definitely did not say that.

My comment was strictly in reply to your list of 9 advantages, and the fact that a few of them either left out pertinent information or were made with some hyperbole. Some other guy asked for those advantages. I've very familiar with said advantages, playing both a Stamina NB and a Magicka DK quite regularly.

I think we can agree that what ppl are tying to do in this thread: compare two magicka classes in a hypothetical 1v1 is VERY hard to do without bias. @pieratsos , what I tried to do with my comment was show that some of those 9 statements were biased, and point out the other side of the coin that was either intentionally or unintentionally omitted. It was intended to get closer to the truth by showing the other side (the side that favors mDK) of the coin.

For instance:

Every DK does not have elusive mist.

To which I could reply, "Every NB does not have Dark Cloak." Both true statements, both mean little. Or:

Fear is the best CC skill in the game.

To which I could reply: Fossilize is the best CC in the game (being that the context of this scenario is a 1v1 where you're opponent is a mNB, to be free of it's effects it requires both a break free AND either a roll dodge or purge/snare removal of some sort).

My point is, to banter back and forth like this coming up with one hypothetical after another does little to address actual class balance. I think it's worth the effort to make sure that the statements you are making as fact, are actually fact and not opinion, exaggeration, or only a partial truth.

You're arguing semantics while @Joy_Division is arguing the point.
For example, Fear is prove-ably better than Fossilize. It hits 3 targets, goes through block, doesn't give the opponent a free shield, AND increases your dmg against them.

Regardless, a mNB should not be losing to a mDK in a duel. This isn't a hypothetical point. The "mDK is good in 1v1" viewpoint is totally overblown.

Ehhhh. I disagree that fear is "prove-ably better than Fossilize."

For example, Fear is prove-ably better than Fossilize. It hits 3 targets, goes through block, doesn't give the opponent a free shield, AND increases your dmg against them.

- Fear hits 3 targets. Fossilize has a 17 meter range (the context for this discussion is a 1v1, but obviously Fear is more powerful in a 3v1 scenario).
-Both CCs go through block...
-The "free shield" is irrelevant because Fossilize actually does damage upon being broken (more damage than the "shield").
-This one may be an education issue on my part, so tell me, how exactly does Fear increase the mNBs damage against it's target?

- Lastly, Fear grants Minor Maim and a slow after it is broken. Fossilize grants an immobilize effect after it is broken, requiring a roll or purge.

If anything I'd say NB and DK have the most powerful CCs in the game. I don't see any quantifiable way to say that Hysteria is "prove-ably" better than Fossilize... But hey, I could be wrong, that's one good thing about the forums, education.

kadar · December 2016

I am not trying to compare magicka classes in a 1v1. I was responding to an outlandish statement made by someone that NBs have zero advantages over a DK.

Roger. And I agree they certainly do have some advantages.

Lokey0024 · December 2016

G

The_Outsider wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

So why dont you slot a melee ability incase you run into a mDK? You have concealed dont you?

I am *** sick of the argument that wings is too strong because YOU chose to play ranged with no melee attacks. All the *** snipers back in 1.5 whined and whined and whined about wings because they ran 2xbow and wondered why they couldnt do dmg and it got nerfed severely.

It's your decision to run full range, so pay the consequences.

Well if I go melee than I will be stuck in talons the whole fight. Also if you go destro concealed your burst still comes from assasins will which you can't kill a mag dk without. So your main burst will still be reflected. I'm also not asking for a nerf to wings I'm just saying you have to be crazy if you don't think it's a huge advantage against certain classes. I'm fine with certain classes having advantages over others, but I'm not going to act like wings aren't a complete counter to ranged builds in 1v1.(Lol what's the point of using a destro staff if you make your spammable a melee ranged attack)

tbh, since NB has fear, you can easily time it with their wings recast to open up a burst window long enough to get a assassin's will off and a soul harvest

That's usually what I do but normally the soul harvest will be block because assassins will has a cast time so against a dk I usually go the meteor route. But that's still a hard counter in my book because if I can one shot him he will eventually be able to punch through me with his battle roar passive and crazy crowd control.

BuggeX wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

if you die to a mDK as mNB you do something wrong

If you can explain to me what advantages I have against a mag dk in a 1v1 besides running away I'm all ears, maybe you know something I don't. Because as far as I can see a mag dk is a complete counter class to magblade. As long as he is competent enough to keep his wings up I can't touch him. I'm basically waiting for a one shot opportunity and hoping I have the burst to finish him. Running away is not a counter. Mag dk is a beast 1v1 in general

When you are in trouble, you can cloak and reset the fight. The DK cannot.

You poo poo mobility as if it is not important. It is.

Soul Harvest ultimate is a fantastic 1v1. Or are you going to tell me the DK dropping a banner is more dangerous?

Your CC has a very powerful aftereffect and makes your opponent 100% vulnerable to your burst. His CC actually shields you of some damage.

You have easy and convenient access to major evasion. The DK has to design their build around it.

You have abilities that actually do more than 8K tooltip.

The DK is much more dependent on his stamina pool than you are because DKs defense = block.

Your class gives you better stats and regen.

The fact that you can "wait for a one shot opportunity to finish him" is rather important. DKs are waiting for you to play poorly or run out of resources so they can wet noodle you to death.

I understand mNB isn't exactly the bees knees in PvP atm and that the DK also have some advanatges over you. However, the fact you aren't willing to acknowledge there aren't things that you can do better tells me you aren't looking at this objectively or honestly.

Joy, some of those points seem veryyyy skewed in favor of the mNB, just sayin. I know you make an effort to be as objective as you can, so:

1) The NB can reset the fight in a 1v1 vs. a mDK using Cloak? O.o Volatile Armor passively counters Cloak (+Grothdar/Skoria on the majority of mDKs). Dropping an Ult on a mDK resets the fight just as well (and more reliably) as a NB attempting to Cloak.

2) Agreed mobility is very important. I'm trying to not bring up non-class abilities cause we're comparing classes, but it should be noted that every mDK has Elusive mist, so they do have a measure of mobility. And all builds use non-class abilities.

4) mDK CC also has a very powerful after affect especially against a magicka build.

5) mDK also has easy access to major evasion and soon as they 5/1/1.

6) If the majority of mDKs stacked as much damage as most mNBs have to, whip's tooltip would also be over 8k.

I'm pretty new to mDK myself, but these are some things that I've noticed.

This is not what you said before.

If you can explain to me what advantages I have against a mag dk in a 1v1 besides running away I'm all ears, maybe you know something I don't.

Now all of a sudden there are advantages. Now I am skewing them. And you're not? LOL come on.

If as a mNB you cant cloak away from a volatile DK, that's an L2P issue.

Every DK does not have elusive mist.

Fear is the best CC skill in the game. You asked for mNB advantages.

Shuffle is not easy access to major evasion. It requires a specific build and CP distribution because it's a high stam cost.

That's the thing, DKs have a hard time stacking damage because they're banging their head against Battlespirit and powerful enemy shields/HoTs and DKs need to invest in block.

Every class has advantages over other classes. It is completely disingenuous to refuse to recognize them.

@Joy_Division , this is a miscommunication, I definitely did not say that.

My comment was strictly in reply to your list of 9 advantages, and the fact that a few of them either left out pertinent information or were made with some hyperbole. Some other guy asked for those advantages. I've very familiar with said advantages, playing both a Stamina NB and a Magicka DK quite regularly.

I think we can agree that what ppl are tying to do in this thread: compare two magicka classes in a hypothetical 1v1 is VERY hard to do without bias. @pieratsos , what I tried to do with my comment was show that some of those 9 statements were biased, and point out the other side of the coin that was either intentionally or unintentionally omitted. It was intended to get closer to the truth by showing the other side (the side that favors mDK) of the coin.

For instance:

Every DK does not have elusive mist.

To which I could reply, "Every NB does not have Dark Cloak." Both true statements, both mean little. Or:

Fear is the best CC skill in the game.

To which I could reply: Fossilize is the best CC in the game (being that the context of this scenario is a 1v1 where you're opponent is a mNB, to be free of it's effects it requires both a break free AND either a roll dodge or purge/snare removal of some sort).

My point is, to banter back and forth like this coming up with one hypothetical after another does little to address actual class balance. I think it's worth the effort to make sure that the statements you are making as fact, are actually fact and not opinion, exaggeration, or only a partial truth.

You're arguing semantics while @Joy_Division is arguing the point.
For example, Fear is prove-ably better than Fossilize. It hits 3 targets, goes through block, doesn't give the opponent a free shield, AND increases your dmg against them.

Regardless, a mNB should not be losing to a mDK in a duel. This isn't a hypothetical point. The "mDK is good in 1v1" viewpoint is totally overblown.

Ehhhh. I disagree that fear is "prove-ably better than Fossilize."

For example, Fear is prove-ably better than Fossilize. It hits 3 targets, goes through block, doesn't give the opponent a free shield, AND increases your dmg against them.

- Fear hits 3 targets. Fossilize has a 17 meter range (the context for this discussion is a 1v1, but obviously Fear is more powerful in a 3v1 scenario).
-Both CCs go through block...
-The "free shield" is irrelevant because Fossilize actually does damage upon being broken (more damage than the "shield").
-This one may be an education issue on my part, so tell me, how exactly does Fear increase the mNBs damage against it's target?

- Lastly, Fear grants Minor Maim and a slow after it is broken. Fossilize grants an immobilize effect after it is broken, requiring a roll or purge.

If anything I'd say NB and DK have the most powerful CCs in the game. I don't see any quantifiable way to say that Hysteria is "prove-ably" better than Fossilize... But hey, I could be wrong, that's one good thing about the forums, education.

Hysteria peels attackers better. Buys you a second to react to an onslaught of spammed attacks to use abilities.

Could be considered better for survivability, but i like fossilize alot better because its more offensive minded ability.

Sharee · December 2016

The_Outsider wrote: »

I don't see any quantifiable way to say that Hysteria is "prove-ably" better than Fossilize... But hey, I could be wrong, that's one good thing about the forums, education.

Fear does not break on damage.

kadar · December 2016

Sharee wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

I don't see any quantifiable way to say that Hysteria is "prove-ably" better than Fossilize... But hey, I could be wrong, that's one good thing about the forums, education.

Fear does not break on damage.

Mmmm, you're right I suppose that's an additional benefit of fear that I missed. In the uncommon situation you can run your target out of stam, that would be an advantage.

BuggeX · December 2016

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

So why dont you slot a melee ability incase you run into a mDK? You have concealed dont you?

I am *** sick of the argument that wings is too strong because YOU chose to play ranged with no melee attacks. All the *** snipers back in 1.5 whined and whined and whined about wings because they ran 2xbow and wondered why they couldnt do dmg and it got nerfed severely.

It's your decision to run full range, so pay the consequences.

Well if I go melee than I will be stuck in talons the whole fight. Also if you go destro concealed your burst still comes from assasins will which you can't kill a mag dk without. So your main burst will still be reflected. I'm also not asking for a nerf to wings I'm just saying you have to be crazy if you don't think it's a huge advantage against certain classes. I'm fine with certain classes having advantages over others, but I'm not going to act like wings aren't a complete counter to ranged builds in 1v1.(Lol what's the point of using a destro staff if you make your spammable a melee ranged attack)

tbh, since NB has fear, you can easily time it with their wings recast to open up a burst window long enough to get a assassin's will off and a soul harvest

That's usually what I do but normally the soul harvest will be block because assassins will has a cast time so against a dk I usually go the meteor route. But that's still a hard counter in my book because if I can one shot him he will eventually be able to punch through me with his battle roar passive and crazy crowd control.

BuggeX wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

if you die to a mDK as mNB you do something wrong

If you can explain to me what advantages I have against a mag dk in a 1v1 besides running away I'm all ears, maybe you know something I don't. Because as far as I can see a mag dk is a complete counter class to magblade. As long as he is competent enough to keep his wings up I can't touch him. I'm basically waiting for a one shot opportunity and hoping I have the burst to finish him. Running away is not a counter. Mag dk is a beast 1v1 in general

so you say mNB is underpowered because the fact mDK can wing most of the skills ? wow such wow much wow.

why the actuall *** anyone coming up with 1v1 in a Duell??!!

this game isnt Duell, they added Duell since many ppls cried for it years to make Duell.

absolutly no Point in arguin with someone who Comes up with 1v1

The_Outsider wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

So why dont you slot a melee ability incase you run into a mDK? You have concealed dont you?

I am *** sick of the argument that wings is too strong because YOU chose to play ranged with no melee attacks. All the *** snipers back in 1.5 whined and whined and whined about wings because they ran 2xbow and wondered why they couldnt do dmg and it got nerfed severely.

It's your decision to run full range, so pay the consequences.

Well if I go melee than I will be stuck in talons the whole fight. Also if you go destro concealed your burst still comes from assasins will which you can't kill a mag dk without. So your main burst will still be reflected. I'm also not asking for a nerf to wings I'm just saying you have to be crazy if you don't think it's a huge advantage against certain classes. I'm fine with certain classes having advantages over others, but I'm not going to act like wings aren't a complete counter to ranged builds in 1v1.(Lol what's the point of using a destro staff if you make your spammable a melee ranged attack)

tbh, since NB has fear, you can easily time it with their wings recast to open up a burst window long enough to get a assassin's will off and a soul harvest

That's usually what I do but normally the soul harvest will be block because assassins will has a cast time so against a dk I usually go the meteor route. But that's still a hard counter in my book because if I can one shot him he will eventually be able to punch through me with his battle roar passive and crazy crowd control.

BuggeX wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

if you die to a mDK as mNB you do something wrong

If you can explain to me what advantages I have against a mag dk in a 1v1 besides running away I'm all ears, maybe you know something I don't. Because as far as I can see a mag dk is a complete counter class to magblade. As long as he is competent enough to keep his wings up I can't touch him. I'm basically waiting for a one shot opportunity and hoping I have the burst to finish him. Running away is not a counter. Mag dk is a beast 1v1 in general

When you are in trouble, you can cloak and reset the fight. The DK cannot.

You poo poo mobility as if it is not important. It is.

Soul Harvest ultimate is a fantastic 1v1. Or are you going to tell me the DK dropping a banner is more dangerous?

Your CC has a very powerful aftereffect and makes your opponent 100% vulnerable to your burst. His CC actually shields you of some damage.

You have easy and convenient access to major evasion. The DK has to design their build around it.

You have abilities that actually do more than 8K tooltip.

The DK is much more dependent on his stamina pool than you are because DKs defense = block.

Your class gives you better stats and regen.

The fact that you can "wait for a one shot opportunity to finish him" is rather important. DKs are waiting for you to play poorly or run out of resources so they can wet noodle you to death.

I understand mNB isn't exactly the bees knees in PvP atm and that the DK also have some advanatges over you. However, the fact you aren't willing to acknowledge there aren't things that you can do better tells me you aren't looking at this objectively or honestly.

Joy, some of those points seem veryyyy skewed in favor of the mNB, just sayin. I know you make an effort to be as objective as you can, so:

1) The NB can reset the fight in a 1v1 vs. a mDK using Cloak? O.o Volatile Armor passively counters Cloak (+Grothdar/Skoria on the majority of mDKs). Dropping an Ult on a mDK resets the fight just as well (and more reliably) as a NB attempting to Cloak.

2) Agreed mobility is very important. I'm trying to not bring up non-class abilities cause we're comparing classes, but it should be noted that every mDK has Elusive mist, so they do have a measure of mobility. And all builds use non-class abilities.

4) mDK CC also has a very powerful after affect especially against a magicka build.

5) mDK also has easy access to major evasion and soon as they 5/1/1.

6) If the majority of mDKs stacked as much damage as most mNBs have to, whip's tooltip would also be over 8k.

I'm pretty new to mDK myself, but these are some things that I've noticed.

wath passive Counters cloak from armor? the dot? get suprressed by cloak, the dmg return from meele attacks? i cant remember nMB attacks with meele. also aoes doesnt get you out of stealth, just Talons do

yes, and im forced to be Vampire to have a movement ability, for that i take more flame dmg and look ugly. ty

wath easy Access to Evasion do i have? shuffel? you know how much that skill cost me and how much Stamina i have? since i will have to block most the times i dont reg stamina in the time.the easy Access would be the crafed set eye of the specter

great, then i have dmg, running 5 la have no sustain no reg no nothing and will die asap i gap closer to weed nodle someone.

you know why mDK sux? if you go cyro you will Need to Slot a few skills that are uselles in Duells anyway and Slot other that you never will Slot in Duell. like mistform, gapcloser, inhale

thankyourat · December 2016

BuggeX wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

So why dont you slot a melee ability incase you run into a mDK? You have concealed dont you?

I am *** sick of the argument that wings is too strong because YOU chose to play ranged with no melee attacks. All the *** snipers back in 1.5 whined and whined and whined about wings because they ran 2xbow and wondered why they couldnt do dmg and it got nerfed severely.

It's your decision to run full range, so pay the consequences.

Well if I go melee than I will be stuck in talons the whole fight. Also if you go destro concealed your burst still comes from assasins will which you can't kill a mag dk without. So your main burst will still be reflected. I'm also not asking for a nerf to wings I'm just saying you have to be crazy if you don't think it's a huge advantage against certain classes. I'm fine with certain classes having advantages over others, but I'm not going to act like wings aren't a complete counter to ranged builds in 1v1.(Lol what's the point of using a destro staff if you make your spammable a melee ranged attack)

tbh, since NB has fear, you can easily time it with their wings recast to open up a burst window long enough to get a assassin's will off and a soul harvest

That's usually what I do but normally the soul harvest will be block because assassins will has a cast time so against a dk I usually go the meteor route. But that's still a hard counter in my book because if I can one shot him he will eventually be able to punch through me with his battle roar passive and crazy crowd control.

BuggeX wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

if you die to a mDK as mNB you do something wrong

If you can explain to me what advantages I have against a mag dk in a 1v1 besides running away I'm all ears, maybe you know something I don't. Because as far as I can see a mag dk is a complete counter class to magblade. As long as he is competent enough to keep his wings up I can't touch him. I'm basically waiting for a one shot opportunity and hoping I have the burst to finish him. Running away is not a counter. Mag dk is a beast 1v1 in general

so you say mNB is underpowered because the fact mDK can wing most of the skills ? wow such wow much wow.

why the actuall *** anyone coming up with 1v1 in a Duell??!!

this game isnt Duell, they added Duell since many ppls cried for it years to make Duell.

absolutly no Point in arguin with someone who Comes up with 1v1

The_Outsider wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

So why dont you slot a melee ability incase you run into a mDK? You have concealed dont you?

I am *** sick of the argument that wings is too strong because YOU chose to play ranged with no melee attacks. All the *** snipers back in 1.5 whined and whined and whined about wings because they ran 2xbow and wondered why they couldnt do dmg and it got nerfed severely.

It's your decision to run full range, so pay the consequences.

Well if I go melee than I will be stuck in talons the whole fight. Also if you go destro concealed your burst still comes from assasins will which you can't kill a mag dk without. So your main burst will still be reflected. I'm also not asking for a nerf to wings I'm just saying you have to be crazy if you don't think it's a huge advantage against certain classes. I'm fine with certain classes having advantages over others, but I'm not going to act like wings aren't a complete counter to ranged builds in 1v1.(Lol what's the point of using a destro staff if you make your spammable a melee ranged attack)

tbh, since NB has fear, you can easily time it with their wings recast to open up a burst window long enough to get a assassin's will off and a soul harvest

That's usually what I do but normally the soul harvest will be block because assassins will has a cast time so against a dk I usually go the meteor route. But that's still a hard counter in my book because if I can one shot him he will eventually be able to punch through me with his battle roar passive and crazy crowd control.

BuggeX wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

I don't understand how people think wings don't counter ranged builds in a 1v1. Every time I fight a mag dk with my magblade it turns into me spamming heavy resto attacks and hoping he gets comfortable and let's his wings go down. If he keeps them up I can't win. Most of the inexperienced dks I've fought do let their wings down but some of the better ones will always beat me because his class counters my class. Mag dk really isn't that bad. Maybe it's not great solo but it's top tier in 1v1 and still really good in group play.

if you die to a mDK as mNB you do something wrong

If you can explain to me what advantages I have against a mag dk in a 1v1 besides running away I'm all ears, maybe you know something I don't. Because as far as I can see a mag dk is a complete counter class to magblade. As long as he is competent enough to keep his wings up I can't touch him. I'm basically waiting for a one shot opportunity and hoping I have the burst to finish him. Running away is not a counter. Mag dk is a beast 1v1 in general

When you are in trouble, you can cloak and reset the fight. The DK cannot.

You poo poo mobility as if it is not important. It is.

Soul Harvest ultimate is a fantastic 1v1. Or are you going to tell me the DK dropping a banner is more dangerous?

Your CC has a very powerful aftereffect and makes your opponent 100% vulnerable to your burst. His CC actually shields you of some damage.

You have easy and convenient access to major evasion. The DK has to design their build around it.

You have abilities that actually do more than 8K tooltip.

The DK is much more dependent on his stamina pool than you are because DKs defense = block.

Your class gives you better stats and regen.

The fact that you can "wait for a one shot opportunity to finish him" is rather important. DKs are waiting for you to play poorly or run out of resources so they can wet noodle you to death.

I understand mNB isn't exactly the bees knees in PvP atm and that the DK also have some advanatges over you. However, the fact you aren't willing to acknowledge there aren't things that you can do better tells me you aren't looking at this objectively or honestly.

Joy, some of those points seem veryyyy skewed in favor of the mNB, just sayin. I know you make an effort to be as objective as you can, so:

1) The NB can reset the fight in a 1v1 vs. a mDK using Cloak? O.o Volatile Armor passively counters Cloak (+Grothdar/Skoria on the majority of mDKs). Dropping an Ult on a mDK resets the fight just as well (and more reliably) as a NB attempting to Cloak.

2) Agreed mobility is very important. I'm trying to not bring up non-class abilities cause we're comparing classes, but it should be noted that every mDK has Elusive mist, so they do have a measure of mobility. And all builds use non-class abilities.

4) mDK CC also has a very powerful after affect especially against a magicka build.

5) mDK also has easy access to major evasion and soon as they 5/1/1.

6) If the majority of mDKs stacked as much damage as most mNBs have to, whip's tooltip would also be over 8k.

I'm pretty new to mDK myself, but these are some things that I've noticed.

wath passive Counters cloak from armor? the dot? get suprressed by cloak, the dmg return from meele attacks? i cant remember nMB attacks with meele. also aoes doesnt get you out of stealth, just Talons do

yes, and im forced to be Vampire to have a movement ability, for that i take more flame dmg and look ugly. ty

wath easy Access to Evasion do i have? shuffel? you know how much that skill cost me and how much Stamina i have? since i will have to block most the times i dont reg stamina in the time.the easy Access would be the crafed set eye of the specter

great, then i have dmg, running 5 la have no sustain no reg no nothing and will die asap i gap closer to weed nodle someone

I never once said magblade is underpowered I'm saying against a mag dk all the classes burst damaged is countered and there is really no way to pressure a magdk as a magblade. I also don't think magdk is underpowered. It's actually a very difficult class to deal with. But dk has some of the best sustain in the game. the class seems like it's built for long drawn out fights. Why would a mag dk need evasion it's already very survivable. But if you just must have it use it after you cc break. Aoe's pull nightblades out of stealth. A lot of people are thinking mag dk is underpowered and I just don't know why. It's great 1v1 and it's great for group play. Honestly all the classes are pretty good right now with just stam proc sets over preforming. My argument is that mag dk is a counter class to magblade. Just like magblade is a counter class to magplar. Some classes have advantages when fighting other classes

Sharee · December 2016

The_Outsider wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

I don't see any quantifiable way to say that Hysteria is "prove-ably" better than Fossilize... But hey, I could be wrong, that's one good thing about the forums, education.

Fear does not break on damage.

Mmmm, you're right I suppose that's an additional benefit of fear that I missed. In the uncommon situation you can run your target out of stam, that would be an advantage.

The advantage of fear not breaking on damage is not just when you run target out of stam.

When you get fossilized, you have the option to wait until the DK breaks it for you (usually when you have high HP, or a fresh shield etc.) instead of wasting a large portion of your stamina pool on CC breaking. Not always, but often.

With fear, you have no such luxury, because any NB worth his salt will be able to kill an unblocking target in 4.5 seconds, even if it starts at full HP. So you absolutely have to break every fear.

Anazasi · December 2016

Increase DOT damage and its fine.