Macros and PvP

Saturn

Macroing / Scripting is not allowed as per the game's ToS:

You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your use of the Services. Third party tools, the use of "bots", "speed hacks", "deep-link", "page-scrape", "robot", "spider", algorithms or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums), software that transmits, manipulates, or distributes (including, but are limited to, "mirroring") the data stream or any aspect of the Services to another computer, server websites or other publication or distribution media, or software that permits You to use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax.

Source.

There are unfortunately players who use macros in the game, for both PvE and PvP content. I've only come across it a few times, and often immediately write it off as lag. If you encounter the same player doing the same thing to you several times then I would suggest using the /help tool to report the player. Often when players are macroing you will see them doing things you aren't able to recreate. I've seen a few videos of people doing weaving and animation cancelling that simply isn't possible, but of course things like these are tough to spot in heated PvP scenarios.

Avenias

Saturn wrote: »

Macroing / Scripting is not allowed as per the game's ToS:

You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your use of the Services. Third party tools, the use of "bots", "speed hacks", "deep-link", "page-scrape", "robot", "spider", algorithms or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums), software that transmits, manipulates, or distributes (including, but are limited to, "mirroring") the data stream or any aspect of the Services to another computer, server websites or other publication or distribution media, or software that permits You to use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax.

Source.

There are unfortunately players who use macros in the game, for both PvE and PvP content. I've only come across it a few times, and often immediately write it off as lag. If you encounter the same player doing the same thing to you several times then I would suggest using the /help tool to report the player. Often when players are macroing you will see them doing things you aren't able to recreate. I've seen a few videos of people doing weaving and animation cancelling that simply isn't possible, but of course things like these are tough to spot in heated PvP scenarios.

Wait what macroing is against the TOS? Since when?

ragespell

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

First, a skilled player can get more attacks in faster than one using a macro.

Second, there are obvious tells of macos when a skill in the middle of the script cannot complete a player ends up in an odd position and stuck until they clear it out.

I would expext there are players that use macros but they would generally not be as effective especially since we do not have a true GCD.

Untrue, with the right hardware you can work on millis, better than any human can do.

Avenias

ragespell wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

First, a skilled player can get more attacks in faster than one using a macro.

Second, there are obvious tells of macos when a skill in the middle of the script cannot complete a player ends up in an odd position and stuck until they clear it out.

I would expext there are players that use macros but they would generally not be as effective especially since we do not have a true GCD.

Untrue, with the right hardware you can work on millis, better than any human can do.

Shhhh, dont tell him that!!!

idk

Avenias wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

Macroing / Scripting is not allowed as per the game's ToS:

You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your use of the Services. Third party tools, the use of "bots", "speed hacks", "deep-link", "page-scrape", "robot", "spider", algorithms or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums), software that transmits, manipulates, or distributes (including, but are limited to, "mirroring") the data stream or any aspect of the Services to another computer, server websites or other publication or distribution media, or software that permits You to use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax.

Source.

There are unfortunately players who use macros in the game, for both PvE and PvP content. I've only come across it a few times, and often immediately write it off as lag. If you encounter the same player doing the same thing to you several times then I would suggest using the /help tool to report the player. Often when players are macroing you will see them doing things you aren't able to recreate. I've seen a few videos of people doing weaving and animation cancelling that simply isn't possible, but of course things like these are tough to spot in heated PvP scenarios.

Wait what macroing is against the TOS? Since when?

The use of Macros in combat has always been against ToS.

Proving it becomes a different story and the person you quoted isn't exactly correct as most skilled players use the same rotation each time they attack a single player. The differnce is someone who uses macros cannot adjust if the attack doesn't go as planned.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Avenias wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

Macroing / Scripting is not allowed as per the game's ToS:

You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your use of the Services. Third party tools, the use of "bots", "speed hacks", "deep-link", "page-scrape", "robot", "spider", algorithms or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums), software that transmits, manipulates, or distributes (including, but are limited to, "mirroring") the data stream or any aspect of the Services to another computer, server websites or other publication or distribution media, or software that permits You to use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax.

Source.

There are unfortunately players who use macros in the game, for both PvE and PvP content. I've only come across it a few times, and often immediately write it off as lag. If you encounter the same player doing the same thing to you several times then I would suggest using the /help tool to report the player. Often when players are macroing you will see them doing things you aren't able to recreate. I've seen a few videos of people doing weaving and animation cancelling that simply isn't possible, but of course things like these are tough to spot in heated PvP scenarios.

Wait what macroing is against the TOS? Since when?

The use of Macros in combat has always been against ToS.

Proving it becomes a different story and the person you quoted isn't exactly correct as most skilled players use the same rotation each time they attack a single player. The differnce is someone who uses macros cannot adjust if the attack doesn't go as planned.

I still havent seen anyone link someone from Zos saying macros are illegal. Just that clip isnt enough. Because the way it is written it out laws so many things that are in the game being used already. And it starts with unless authorized by Zos.

If some can link me up something where zos says using macros is breaking the tos i really want to see it. I asked earlier but the fellow just stopped replying to me then.

hyttemaierb16_ESO

a

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

O dear. Another one.

I am going to say how this thread is going without even reading the comments.

-op claims x amount of attacks hit me in x amount of time
-people yell gcd, so that is not possible (which is true)
-people say you can do it without macros (which is true)
-people tell at the people from point two and three yelling you must be a cheater using macros
-people enlightening op on point two and point three yell at those from point 4 saying how they have provided a factual argument regardless if you think I use macros.
-theven people that point 5 is directed at yell you know nothing and all you do is use macros
-from there the conversation repeats this pattern for awhile or the people from point two and three give up and face palm it while the others continue to spout non sense about a game in which they have established over the course of 10 pages that they do not understand the mechanics


Did I nail it?

-yes there are people using macros.
-yes using a macro is cheating
-yes there is no human error with macros
-yes there are gcd to prevent x amount to of attacks from hitting in the infamously claimed 1 second time frames
-yes you can become skilled enough at the game to replicate what a macro does on a regular basis
-yes, not all people that attack you using animation cancelling like a pro are macro users.
-yes macro users will talk about gcd and how you can do it without macros
-yes people who use animation cancelling like a pro will talk about gcd and how you can do it without macros.

The common theme in these threads are the people that refuse to understand how mechanics in this game operate and continue to yell.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Avenias wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

Macroing / Scripting is not allowed as per the game's ToS:

You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your use of the Services. Third party tools, the use of "bots", "speed hacks", "deep-link", "page-scrape", "robot", "spider", algorithms or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums), software that transmits, manipulates, or distributes (including, but are limited to, "mirroring") the data stream or any aspect of the Services to another computer, server websites or other publication or distribution media, or software that permits You to use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax.

Source.

There are unfortunately players who use macros in the game, for both PvE and PvP content. I've only come across it a few times, and often immediately write it off as lag. If you encounter the same player doing the same thing to you several times then I would suggest using the /help tool to report the player. Often when players are macroing you will see them doing things you aren't able to recreate. I've seen a few videos of people doing weaving and animation cancelling that simply isn't possible, but of course things like these are tough to spot in heated PvP scenarios.

Wait what macroing is against the TOS? Since when?

The use of Macros in combat has always been against ToS.

Proving it becomes a different story and the person you quoted isn't exactly correct as most skilled players use the same rotation each time they attack a single player. The differnce is someone who uses macros cannot adjust if the attack doesn't go as planned.

I still havent seen anyone link someone from Zos saying macros are illegal. Just that clip isnt enough. Because the way it is written it out laws so many things that are in the game being used already. And it starts with unless authorized by Zos.

If some can link me up something where zos says using macros is breaking the tos i really want to see it. I asked earlier but the fellow just stopped replying to me then.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1827438#Comment_1827438 << there you can see it

hyttemaierb16_ESO

Its abit of a greyzone, cause they allow the use of gaming mice & keyboards, and those are macroable without use of 3rd party programs.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

hyttemaierb16_ESO wrote: »

a

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

O dear. Another one.

I am going to say how this thread is going without even reading the comments.

-op claims x amount of attacks hit me in x amount of time
-people yell gcd, so that is not possible (which is true)
-people say you can do it without macros (which is true)
-people tell at the people from point two and three yelling you must be a cheater using macros
-people enlightening op on point two and point three yell at those from point 4 saying how they have provided a factual argument regardless if you think I use macros.
-theven people that point 5 is directed at yell you know nothing and all you do is use macros
-from there the conversation repeats this pattern for awhile or the people from point two and three give up and face palm it while the others continue to spout non sense about a game in which they have established over the course of 10 pages that they do not understand the mechanics


Did I nail it?

-yes there are people using macros.
-yes using a macro is cheating
-yes there is no human error with macros
-yes there are gcd to prevent x amount to of attacks from hitting in the infamously claimed 1 second time frames
-yes you can become skilled enough at the game to replicate what a macro does on a regular basis
-yes, not all people that attack you using animation cancelling like a pro are macro users.
-yes macro users will talk about gcd and how you can do it without macros
-yes people who use animation cancelling like a pro will talk about gcd and how you can do it without macros.

The common theme in these threads are the people that refuse to understand how mechanics in this game operate and continue to yell.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Avenias wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

Macroing / Scripting is not allowed as per the game's ToS:

You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your use of the Services. Third party tools, the use of "bots", "speed hacks", "deep-link", "page-scrape", "robot", "spider", algorithms or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums), software that transmits, manipulates, or distributes (including, but are limited to, "mirroring") the data stream or any aspect of the Services to another computer, server websites or other publication or distribution media, or software that permits You to use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax.

Source.

There are unfortunately players who use macros in the game, for both PvE and PvP content. I've only come across it a few times, and often immediately write it off as lag. If you encounter the same player doing the same thing to you several times then I would suggest using the /help tool to report the player. Often when players are macroing you will see them doing things you aren't able to recreate. I've seen a few videos of people doing weaving and animation cancelling that simply isn't possible, but of course things like these are tough to spot in heated PvP scenarios.

Wait what macroing is against the TOS? Since when?

The use of Macros in combat has always been against ToS.

Proving it becomes a different story and the person you quoted isn't exactly correct as most skilled players use the same rotation each time they attack a single player. The differnce is someone who uses macros cannot adjust if the attack doesn't go as planned.

I still havent seen anyone link someone from Zos saying macros are illegal. Just that clip isnt enough. Because the way it is written it out laws so many things that are in the game being used already. And it starts with unless authorized by Zos.

If some can link me up something where zos says using macros is breaking the tos i really want to see it. I asked earlier but the fellow just stopped replying to me then.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1827438#Comment_1827438 << there you can see it

Awesome. Thank you. Now i find it very odd that they allow addons that automate in game features and some that can do macros but aparently macros are against the rules.

They really need to crack down it seems.

JackDaniell

Let's all sit in a circle and argue about what we think we know

raasdal

Wow, already time for one of these again?

I can already see them, crawling out of their tinfoil huts, with the tinfoil hats sternly equipped, mumbling about that macro exploiter cheater wall hacker roaming free out there. They are coming....

Luigi_Vampa

About the "macro slice". What do you people who are saying that hitting abilities when your crit rush bugs out is cheating expect someone to do when it bugs out? Run around stuck in the animation like an idiot while someone kills you? Not use gapclosers because they often bug out? When I get stuck in lag, "not crit rush" I keep hitting my buttons because it is the only way I might survive. Otherwise, I suppose I could sit there take my hands of my keyboard and mouse, because if I accidentally queue up abilities, I might be called a cheater.

You all seem to be of the notion that people can cause the lag needed for "macro slicing" with absolutely no evidence for that being the case other than Fengrush finding the bug funny. If I lag out on my gap closer, I'm going to keep going with the rotation I was going to use prior to the lag. If that results in a "macro slice" then so be it. I can't help lag, and I'm not going to just sit there and die everytime my gap closer bugs just because ZOS can't fix their game.

hyttemaierb16_ESO

raasdal wrote: »

Wow, already time for one of these again?

I can already see them, crawling out of their tinfoil huts, with the tinfoil hats sternly equipped, mumbling about that macro exploiter cheater wall hacker roaming free out there. They are coming....

Look at videos then comment, thanks in advance!

hyttemaierb16_ESO

JackDaniell wrote: »

Let's all sit in a circle and argue about what we think we know

Yes lets do that, count me in! you can start with telling us, are you using macros and why? or are you pro at animation-canceling? we need to know something about you, now we all sit here.

Roechacca

JackDaniell wrote: »

Let's all sit in a circle and argue about what we think we know

I know I need you to post a new Templar build video. Tired of Blazingshield.

JackDaniell

hyttemaierb16_ESO wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Let's all sit in a circle and argue about what we think we know

Yes lets do that, count me in! you can start with telling us, are you using macros and why? or are you pro at animation-canceling? we need to know something about you, now we all sit here.

http://youtu.be/wWHMCNFC4F0

Macros 4 days

ssewallb14_ESO

What you described is basic animation canceling done rather poorly. A good player will hit you with crit rush/PI->LA->SA->bash->LA->executioner->bash in a little over 2 seconds.

hyttemaierb16_ESO

JackDaniell wrote: »

hyttemaierb16_ESO wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Let's all sit in a circle and argue about what we think we know

Yes lets do that, count me in! you can start with telling us, are you using macros and why? or are you pro at animation-canceling? we need to know something about you, now we all sit here.

http://youtu.be/wWHMCNFC4F0

Macros 4 days

So you made that video i assume? its a good video, just watched it but you cant deny, that macroing is happening, and "macro-slice" even tho its a silly name, since someone pointed out that it have nothing to do with a macro, so my question to you Kris (can i call you kris?) if i buy a macro mouse & keyboard and beat you in a pvp situation, would it be considered cheating? or would you consider that a cheat?

raasdal

hyttemaierb16_ESO wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Wow, already time for one of these again?

I can already see them, crawling out of their tinfoil huts, with the tinfoil hats sternly equipped, mumbling about that macro exploiter cheater wall hacker roaming free out there. They are coming....

Look at videos then comment, thanks in advance!

I did. Still seems to me like someone needs to unequip tinfoil hat and git gud.

bowmanz607

To those saying we should get rid of animation canceling because ppl abuse it with macros, you understand that no matter what system is put in place people will find a way to abuse it right.

Using the above logic applied in a real world situation...

Hey guys people make counterfeit money and are therefore abusing the system so let's get rid of money.

You don't get rid of money because of ppl who abuse it, you punish them. Not all get caught howvere.

Similarly, you don't get rid of animation cancelling because ppl macro. You punish them. Not all get caught however. Additionally, the punishment needs to be increased because there really is not a sufficient punishment in place.

LegacyDM

bowmanz607 wrote: »

To those saying we should get rid of animation canceling because ppl abuse it with macros, you understand that no matter what system is put in place people will find a way to abuse it right.

Using the above logic applied in a real world situation...

Hey guys people make counterfeit money and are therefore abusing the system so let's get rid of money.

You don't get rid of money because of ppl who abuse it, you punish them. Not all get caught howvere.

Similarly, you don't get rid of animation cancelling because ppl macro. You punish them. Not all get caught however. Additionally, the punishment needs to be increased because there really is not a sufficient punishment in place.

How would zos catch them? Hypothetically, Let's say 100,000 people play this game. Let's say 15,000 macro. Let's say 10,000 use macros because they have a gaming mouse/keyboard and don't know any better. Let's say 5,000 have a disability or are elderly. Do you think zos has the personnel to sift through logs and look at who might be macroing? It would not be feasible to develop server software to look for such activity because the same timings can be produced manually. Zos risks now potentially banning 95k people in addition to banning the 5k people who have a legit reason to use macros. Now the only way they could do it would be to install 3rd party software looking for scripting programs or mouse software/keyboard, or watching your inputs on your local machine but now zos risks getting into a privacy war with its consumers.

Now my numbers are way off because we know more than 100k people play and I am confident that more than 15k macro for whatever reason. I don't macro but it seems to me that macroing provides little advantage because the game engine has an internal cool down. Zos should just end this by allowing macros like they did animation canceling. It's not enforceable and its a built in feature to any modern day gaming keyboard/mouse. I like your analogy but it's apples to oranges.

bowmanz607

LegacyDM wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

To those saying we should get rid of animation canceling because ppl abuse it with macros, you understand that no matter what system is put in place people will find a way to abuse it right.

Using the above logic applied in a real world situation...

Hey guys people make counterfeit money and are therefore abusing the system so let's get rid of money.

You don't get rid of money because of ppl who abuse it, you punish them. Not all get caught howvere.

Similarly, you don't get rid of animation cancelling because ppl macro. You punish them. Not all get caught however. Additionally, the punishment needs to be increased because there really is not a sufficient punishment in place.

How would zos catch them? Hypothetically, Let's say 100,000 people play this game. Let's say 15,000 macro. Let's say 10,000 use macros because they have a gaming mouse/keyboard and don't know any better. Let's say 5,000 have a disability or are elderly. Do you think zos has the personnel to sift through logs and look at who might be macroing? It would not be feasible to develop server software to look for such activity because the same timings can be produced manually. Zos risks now potentially banning 95k people in addition to banning the 5k people who have a legit reason to use macros. Now the only way they could do it would be to install 3rd party software looking for scripting programs or mouse software/keyboard, or watching your inputs on your local machine but now zos risks getting into a privacy war with its consumers.

Now my numbers are way off because we know more than 100k people play and I am confident that more than 15k macro for whatever reason. I don't macro but it seems to me that macroing provides little advantage because the game engine has an internal cool down. Zos should just end this by allowing macros like they did animation canceling. It's not enforceable and its a built in feature to any modern day gaming keyboard/mouse. I like your analogy but it's apples to oranges.

Well simply because you have a gaming mouse or are elderly is no reason to use a macro. There are no legit reasons to use them since you are not allowed to. Everyone has the tos. A person's failure to read the tos is on them. You can't claim ignorance. You have a utility to read terms of your contract.

I agree it will be hard to find these players. Not impossible, but hard. But you do not need to catch all of them. Simply making a legit and harsh punishment will be enough to deter many.

Hempyre

Frankly, ani canceling was never intended, and personally I'd prefer it wasn't in the game. I think everyone working off of a standard gcd/animation time would be more beneficial for balance. However, since it's in the game and clearly embraced by the powers that be, I have to do it to play competitively.

As far as macros and the tos is concerned, while technically against the tos, I think the intent of the inclusion is more a "throw it in there just in case" scenario. I can see that they would want to limit sophisticated macro scripting and automation, but considering the laggy nature of pvp and the lack of reliability of button presses, skill executes, gap closeres, etc... I really doubt they have an issue with a short skill sequence.

Scripting more than a couple of skills together can trap the player in a sequence that gets them killed. I don't see capable players taking that risk, and frankly I doubt the OP was killed in "2 seconds". It may have felt that way, but between desync, lag, and skill choices I doubt it. There's also the OP's build choices to account for in the speed of his death as well.

My current toon is reasonably tanky and has some extra hp. I rarely fall to gank builds, most 1v1 fights go a good distance, there are some classes when built well that are more difficult than others and then every once in a while something comes along that tears me up so fast that I don't know what the hell just happened. (Im reflecting on a specific 900+cp stam sorc encounter in IC a few weeks ago) where I poured over my Recount for ten minutes calculating the timing of the attacks because I couldn't believe I was crushed so quickly... The player ani cancelled well, and all attacks were withing gdc timings, just woven extremely well. Macro? Maybe, but I doubt it. Just damn good.

The last item is the lack of reliablilty with the in game recap. There's no timestamp, and it doesn't seem to include all the attack info at times. I recommend Recount or some similar combat recap mod. Even with a desync you still get your timestamp to see what hit you and when. Keep in mind cast times differ for the caster vs the target. you can have skills landing simultaneously that were not initialized simultaneously, as is the case with bow heavy/poison attack as an example.

Just cuz you got beat doesn't mean they cheat.

JackDaniell

hyttemaierb16_ESO wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

hyttemaierb16_ESO wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Let's all sit in a circle and argue about what we think we know

Yes lets do that, count me in! you can start with telling us, are you using macros and why? or are you pro at animation-canceling? we need to know something about you, now we all sit here.

http://youtu.be/wWHMCNFC4F0

Macros 4 days

So you made that video i assume? its a good video, just watched it but you cant deny, that macroing is happening, and "macro-slice" even tho its a silly name, since someone pointed out that it have nothing to do with a macro, so my question to you Kris (can i call you kris?) if i buy a macro mouse & keyboard and beat you in a pvp situation, would it be considered cheating? or would you consider that a cheat?

Unless you gank from stealth I don't think macros will help much in pvp, they make you very unflexable and less verisile, I would love to see a player using macros recreate the fight in that video.

In short, you won't beat me with macros, that right is reserved for real players and zergs.

hyttemaierb16_ESO

So tonight i thought to myself i wanted to try out the animation cancel thing, you guys hyped so much, so if you get hit be a heavy attack, venom arrow + light attack + snipe all at the same time now you realy asked for it yourself.. now i turned to the "dark side" and im going to hunt you down (ingame ofc) it aint realy that hard to pull off as you guys hyped it to be, im a little disapointed about adding "skill" to the game..

But as a token of my appreciation, to all the "attention" good or bad this thread got im going to give you Lagertha's (Katheryn Winnick) Snapchat - http://www.snapchat.com/add/katherynwinnick - you can thank me later....

LegacyDM

bowmanz607 wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

To those saying we should get rid of animation canceling because ppl abuse it with macros, you understand that no matter what system is put in place people will find a way to abuse it right.

Using the above logic applied in a real world situation...

Hey guys people make counterfeit money and are therefore abusing the system so let's get rid of money.

You don't get rid of money because of ppl who abuse it, you punish them. Not all get caught howvere.

Similarly, you don't get rid of animation cancelling because ppl macro. You punish them. Not all get caught however. Additionally, the punishment needs to be increased because there really is not a sufficient punishment in place.

How would zos catch them? Hypothetically, Let's say 100,000 people play this game. Let's say 15,000 macro. Let's say 10,000 use macros because they have a gaming mouse/keyboard and don't know any better. Let's say 5,000 have a disability or are elderly. Do you think zos has the personnel to sift through logs and look at who might be macroing? It would not be feasible to develop server software to look for such activity because the same timings can be produced manually. Zos risks now potentially banning 95k people in addition to banning the 5k people who have a legit reason to use macros. Now the only way they could do it would be to install 3rd party software looking for scripting programs or mouse software/keyboard, or watching your inputs on your local machine but now zos risks getting into a privacy war with its consumers.

Now my numbers are way off because we know more than 100k people play and I am confident that more than 15k macro for whatever reason. I don't macro but it seems to me that macroing provides little advantage because the game engine has an internal cool down. Zos should just end this by allowing macros like they did animation canceling. It's not enforceable and its a built in feature to any modern day gaming keyboard/mouse. I like your analogy but it's apples to oranges.

Well simply because you have a gaming mouse or are elderly is no reason to use a macro. There are no legit reasons to use them since you are not allowed to. Everyone has the tos. A person's failure to read the tos is on them. You can't claim ignorance. You have a utility to read terms of your contract.

I agree it will be hard to find these players. Not impossible, but hard. But you do not need to catch all of them. Simply making a legit and harsh punishment will be enough to deter many.

My point was they should embrace it like they did animation canceling. It's clear they can't enforce it and if they did they would risk putting non macro users at risk for said enforcement. There is no way they can distinguish a macro from manual unless they install software on your machine that detects scripts or auto button presses. However, even that is sketchy because than they have to prove such scripts were used solely for the intent of eso. They also risk alienating their player base with privacy concerns.

To be honest, zos is the best mmorog I've seen that has made the in game mechanics make macro use a hindrance rather an advantage. Due to combat engine cool downs it's not an advantage. So maybe macros help with animation canceling. But anyone who takes 10 minutes can figure AC out manually and not be stuck in a macro rotation. Which is an advantage to a non macro user.

I get that you want to drop the hammer on everyone who uses macros because that's the tos. Yet, I think it's more complicated than that. Zos doesn't want to alienate disabled and elderly people either who could depend on this functionality. Also zos can't reliable prove someone used a macro against tos. Tos should be amended or interpreted to allow for such activity.

Avenias

bowmanz607 wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

To those saying we should get rid of animation canceling because ppl abuse it with macros, you understand that no matter what system is put in place people will find a way to abuse it right.

Using the above logic applied in a real world situation...

Hey guys people make counterfeit money and are therefore abusing the system so let's get rid of money.

You don't get rid of money because of ppl who abuse it, you punish them. Not all get caught howvere.

Similarly, you don't get rid of animation cancelling because ppl macro. You punish them. Not all get caught however. Additionally, the punishment needs to be increased because there really is not a sufficient punishment in place.

How would zos catch them? Hypothetically, Let's say 100,000 people play this game. Let's say 15,000 macro. Let's say 10,000 use macros because they have a gaming mouse/keyboard and don't know any better. Let's say 5,000 have a disability or are elderly. Do you think zos has the personnel to sift through logs and look at who might be macroing? It would not be feasible to develop server software to look for such activity because the same timings can be produced manually. Zos risks now potentially banning 95k people in addition to banning the 5k people who have a legit reason to use macros. Now the only way they could do it would be to install 3rd party software looking for scripting programs or mouse software/keyboard, or watching your inputs on your local machine but now zos risks getting into a privacy war with its consumers.

Now my numbers are way off because we know more than 100k people play and I am confident that more than 15k macro for whatever reason. I don't macro but it seems to me that macroing provides little advantage because the game engine has an internal cool down. Zos should just end this by allowing macros like they did animation canceling. It's not enforceable and its a built in feature to any modern day gaming keyboard/mouse. I like your analogy but it's apples to oranges.

Well simply because you have a gaming mouse or are elderly is no reason to use a macro. There are no legit reasons to use them since you are not allowed to. Everyone has the tos. A person's failure to read the tos is on them. You can't claim ignorance. You have a utility to read terms of your contract.

I agree it will be hard to find these players. Not impossible, but hard. But you do not need to catch all of them. Simply making a legit and harsh punishment will be enough to deter many.

Im actually glad ppl are using macro. Its a big middle finger to ZOS about their lack of regulation. I want as many ppl use macro as possible

ColoursYouHave

hyttemaierb16_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

hyttemaierb16_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

O dear. Another one.

I am going to say how this thread is going without even reading the comments.

-op claims x amount of attacks hit me in x amount of time
-people yell gcd, so that is not possible (which is true)
-people say you can do it without macros (which is true)
-people tell at the people from point two and three yelling you must be a cheater using macros
-people enlightening op on point two and point three yell at those from point 4 saying how they have provided a factual argument regardless if you think I use macros.
-theven people that point 5 is directed at yell you know nothing and all you do is use macros
-from there the conversation repeats this pattern for awhile or the people from point two and three give up and face palm it while the others continue to spout non sense about a game in which they have established over the course of 10 pages that they do not understand the mechanics


Did I nail it?

-yes there are people using macros.
-yes using a macro is cheating
-yes there is no human error with macros
-yes there are gcd to prevent x amount to of attacks from hitting in the infamously claimed 1 second time frames
-yes you can become skilled enough at the game to replicate what a macro does on a regular basis
-yes, not all people that attack you using animation cancelling like a pro are macro users.
-yes macro users will talk about gcd and how you can do it without macros
-yes people who use animation cancelling like a pro will talk about gcd and how you can do it without macros.

The common theme in these threads are the people that refuse to understand how mechanics in this game operate and continue to yell.

Its all much clearer for me now, ESO announcing we got this cool new feature in our game "animation-canceling" where you cancel the animations we made in the game, its not a flaw in the game, its what makes the game "special" Its a legit new fast paced combat system we developed, for L33T players, its not a flaw we promice

It was unintended but embraced. I would agree that it adds an element of skill to the game for us legit players. There will always be cheaters. If animation cancelling was not a thing then those cheaters would find another way to cheat. At least I know that my time and practice in becoming good at is all from skill.

Im actually starting to like the attitude of you guys, that are "for" the animation canceling, you are making the "best of the situation", in a flawed combat system, what i dont get is why it was embraced, now we have a situation where pro players will have success, and the "norm" of players will either quit pvp or use a macro to even the battlefield, then ESO will ban the "noob" pvp player for trying to replicate, what pro players do. ESO fix your game or allow macros, pro players will still be better than a macro from what i can read in this thread.

Pro players will always be better than new players, but that is because they have more skill and experience, not because they animation cancel. You certainly don't need to be a "pro" player to learn to animation cancel, either. Really, all you need to do is take 15 minutes of your time to watch a video and then practice on some mobs, then once you understand it you just naturally get better at it through repetition. My friend who was new to ESO literally did it on his first try after I explained it to him, and was fairly proficient at it after about 10 minutes of dueling. Learning how to animation cancel is probably easier than making a macro, which is why people who do animation cancel often find it ridiculous when people think that a bunch of people are using macros.

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

This less about macros and more about opinions and views on the combat system.

I persoanlly think Animation Canceling is rubbish....its button mashing really, BUT I do it because the game requires me to...VMA is impossible to complete without doing it...its very DPS favored and more DPS is better and you won't get that DPS without doing it...so theres that.

Until a better alternative comes around, were stuck with this...I can accept that....doesn't mean I have to like it...I certainly won't accuse folks who do it of cheating either...its no more cheating then crafting a set of armor. just my 2 cents

There is more to animation canceling than DPS. You've never animation cancelled vigor with a dodge roll before?

hyttemaierb16_ESO

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

hyttemaierb16_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

hyttemaierb16_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

O dear. Another one.

I am going to say how this thread is going without even reading the comments.

-op claims x amount of attacks hit me in x amount of time
-people yell gcd, so that is not possible (which is true)
-people say you can do it without macros (which is true)
-people tell at the people from point two and three yelling you must be a cheater using macros
-people enlightening op on point two and point three yell at those from point 4 saying how they have provided a factual argument regardless if you think I use macros.
-theven people that point 5 is directed at yell you know nothing and all you do is use macros
-from there the conversation repeats this pattern for awhile or the people from point two and three give up and face palm it while the others continue to spout non sense about a game in which they have established over the course of 10 pages that they do not understand the mechanics


Did I nail it?

-yes there are people using macros.
-yes using a macro is cheating
-yes there is no human error with macros
-yes there are gcd to prevent x amount to of attacks from hitting in the infamously claimed 1 second time frames
-yes you can become skilled enough at the game to replicate what a macro does on a regular basis
-yes, not all people that attack you using animation cancelling like a pro are macro users.
-yes macro users will talk about gcd and how you can do it without macros
-yes people who use animation cancelling like a pro will talk about gcd and how you can do it without macros.

The common theme in these threads are the people that refuse to understand how mechanics in this game operate and continue to yell.

Its all much clearer for me now, ESO announcing we got this cool new feature in our game "animation-canceling" where you cancel the animations we made in the game, its not a flaw in the game, its what makes the game "special" Its a legit new fast paced combat system we developed, for L33T players, its not a flaw we promice

It was unintended but embraced. I would agree that it adds an element of skill to the game for us legit players. There will always be cheaters. If animation cancelling was not a thing then those cheaters would find another way to cheat. At least I know that my time and practice in becoming good at is all from skill.

Im actually starting to like the attitude of you guys, that are "for" the animation canceling, you are making the "best of the situation", in a flawed combat system, what i dont get is why it was embraced, now we have a situation where pro players will have success, and the "norm" of players will either quit pvp or use a macro to even the battlefield, then ESO will ban the "noob" pvp player for trying to replicate, what pro players do. ESO fix your game or allow macros, pro players will still be better than a macro from what i can read in this thread.

Pro players will always be better than new players, but that is because they have more skill and experience, not because they animation cancel. You certainly don't need to be a "pro" player to learn to animation cancel, either. Really, all you need to do is take 15 minutes of your time to watch a video and then practice on some mobs, then once you understand it you just naturally get better at it through repetition. My friend who was new to ESO literally did it on his first try after I explained it to him, and was fairly proficient at it after about 10 minutes of dueling. Learning how to animation cancel is probably easier than making a macro, which is why people who do animation cancel often find it ridiculous when people think that a bunch of people are using macros.

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

This less about macros and more about opinions and views on the combat system.

I persoanlly think Animation Canceling is rubbish....its button mashing really, BUT I do it because the game requires me to...VMA is impossible to complete without doing it...its very DPS favored and more DPS is better and you won't get that DPS without doing it...so theres that.

Until a better alternative comes around, were stuck with this...I can accept that....doesn't mean I have to like it...I certainly won't accuse folks who do it of cheating either...its no more cheating then crafting a set of armor. just my 2 cents

There is more to animation canceling than DPS. You've never animation cancelled vigor with a dodge roll before?

Its funny at the very moment i am trying to replicate the very thing that started this thread, while its fairly easy to animation cancel bow abilities, the "combo" that killed me, i just cant seem to replicate, could you try to walk me through how you would do that in details?

ColoursYouHave

hyttemaierb16_ESO wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

hyttemaierb16_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

hyttemaierb16_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

O dear. Another one.

I am going to say how this thread is going without even reading the comments.

-op claims x amount of attacks hit me in x amount of time
-people yell gcd, so that is not possible (which is true)
-people say you can do it without macros (which is true)
-people tell at the people from point two and three yelling you must be a cheater using macros
-people enlightening op on point two and point three yell at those from point 4 saying how they have provided a factual argument regardless if you think I use macros.
-theven people that point 5 is directed at yell you know nothing and all you do is use macros
-from there the conversation repeats this pattern for awhile or the people from point two and three give up and face palm it while the others continue to spout non sense about a game in which they have established over the course of 10 pages that they do not understand the mechanics


Did I nail it?

-yes there are people using macros.
-yes using a macro is cheating
-yes there is no human error with macros
-yes there are gcd to prevent x amount to of attacks from hitting in the infamously claimed 1 second time frames
-yes you can become skilled enough at the game to replicate what a macro does on a regular basis
-yes, not all people that attack you using animation cancelling like a pro are macro users.
-yes macro users will talk about gcd and how you can do it without macros
-yes people who use animation cancelling like a pro will talk about gcd and how you can do it without macros.

The common theme in these threads are the people that refuse to understand how mechanics in this game operate and continue to yell.

Its all much clearer for me now, ESO announcing we got this cool new feature in our game "animation-canceling" where you cancel the animations we made in the game, its not a flaw in the game, its what makes the game "special" Its a legit new fast paced combat system we developed, for L33T players, its not a flaw we promice

It was unintended but embraced. I would agree that it adds an element of skill to the game for us legit players. There will always be cheaters. If animation cancelling was not a thing then those cheaters would find another way to cheat. At least I know that my time and practice in becoming good at is all from skill.

Im actually starting to like the attitude of you guys, that are "for" the animation canceling, you are making the "best of the situation", in a flawed combat system, what i dont get is why it was embraced, now we have a situation where pro players will have success, and the "norm" of players will either quit pvp or use a macro to even the battlefield, then ESO will ban the "noob" pvp player for trying to replicate, what pro players do. ESO fix your game or allow macros, pro players will still be better than a macro from what i can read in this thread.

Pro players will always be better than new players, but that is because they have more skill and experience, not because they animation cancel. You certainly don't need to be a "pro" player to learn to animation cancel, either. Really, all you need to do is take 15 minutes of your time to watch a video and then practice on some mobs, then once you understand it you just naturally get better at it through repetition. My friend who was new to ESO literally did it on his first try after I explained it to him, and was fairly proficient at it after about 10 minutes of dueling. Learning how to animation cancel is probably easier than making a macro, which is why people who do animation cancel often find it ridiculous when people think that a bunch of people are using macros.

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

This less about macros and more about opinions and views on the combat system.

I persoanlly think Animation Canceling is rubbish....its button mashing really, BUT I do it because the game requires me to...VMA is impossible to complete without doing it...its very DPS favored and more DPS is better and you won't get that DPS without doing it...so theres that.

Until a better alternative comes around, were stuck with this...I can accept that....doesn't mean I have to like it...I certainly won't accuse folks who do it of cheating either...its no more cheating then crafting a set of armor. just my 2 cents

There is more to animation canceling than DPS. You've never animation cancelled vigor with a dodge roll before?

Its funny at the very moment i am trying to replicate the very thing that started this thread, while its fairly easy to animation cancel bow abilities, the "combo" that killed me, i just cant seem to replicate, could you try to walk me through how you would do that in details?

https://youtu.be/xrX06NFpBDM

Remember, while learning how to animation cancel is easy, it takes some practice to become quicker with it. Instead of jumping right into pulling off that combo, I would try to practice by breaking it down into parts. I did a similar animation cancelling combo in this video (heavy attack, venom arrow, weapon swap, ambush, light attack, surprise attack, light attack, executioner, dodge roll, to be specific), and then slowed it down to help you see what is going on. So breaking this down, we can kind of separate this whole thing into four separate animations:

1. Heavy attack+venom arrow+weapon swap
2. Ambush
3. Light attack+surprise attack
4. Light attack+executioner+dodge roll.

So in the first animation, I partially charge a heavy attack, cancel that animation with a venom arrow, and then cancel venom arrow's animation with a weapon swap. In the second animation, no cancelling going on, just using the ability on its own. In the third animation, I use a light attack and then cancel the animation with surprise attack. Then in the fourth animation, I use a light attack, cancel that animation with executioner, and then cancel executioner's animation with a dodge roll. So ultimately, the combo would look something like this:

(Heavy attack+venom arrow+weapon swap)--->ambush--->(light attack+surprise attack)--->(light attack+executioner+dodge roll).


Since some of the animations are hidden, you can watch the combat log in the bottom right to confirm that what I described is actually what happened (with the exception of venom arrow; for some reason the initial hit didn't show up on the combat log, but you can see the initial hit deal damage with the floating combat text, as well as see it show up as a debuff on the enemy and as a DOT tick later on.)