Which Pre ESO Game Was Your Favourite?

Uriel_Nocturne

~ snip ~

Accidental double post.

Anhedonie

Daggerfall

bertenburnyb16_ESO

Morrowind

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

@WalkingLegacy

yeah I just saw the latest development vid,
quit your job, skip school, sell the kids!

https://youtu.be/PewuaPKnhnc

Right there in the video is a great example of what made Morrowind so great.
It's at 8:55. Just look at that map, it is absolutely -littered- with locations to explore. Just the sheer density of unique locations to check out is the reason so many of my "just gonna finish this quest real quick" moments turned into all night affairs.

Your post gave some more sense of why that's my favorite game all time, just get lost in the game, recent games just don't do that anymore

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Morrowind

Morrowind for me. I actually remember buying it on XBOX because it had won RPG game of the year or something like that. I bought it, played it for a bit, and couldnt figure out what the heck to do so I shelved it. I then suffered a snowboarding injury and was laid up for about 2 months. I gave it a second try after releasing that the lack of direction was kind of the whole point. Several hundred hours of game time later...

I would call it the best game ever, but in my heart, that will be the original Legend of Zelda, which really was the first open world video game that I can recall. Haha

ShedsHisTail

Morrowind

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Morrowind had a depth of gameplay and immersion that has not been matched since in my opinion. [1]It's really sad to see Bethesda dumb down the franchise in attempt to appeal to the fickle masses simply to make more money. [2]ESO is an abomination in that respect - it's the most superficial and watered down TES title to date. ZOS is lucky the combat is the best I've played in an MMO, I wouldn't have stuck around otherwise.

1) I really hate that phrase... it's in no way true, and in no way a good descriptor for the games changes.

2) That's because ESO is an MMO first, Elder Scrolls second. It's an MMO with an Elder Scrolls theme. If you were thinking of ESO as a regular Elder Scrolls game with some "online" thrown in, then the problem is you and not the game. The development staff were very clear, many times, before/during/after ESO launched that this is not going to be "Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim Online". If you were still thinking it was going to be that, then you are the problem, not the game.

Take that as you will, but I think stepping back and getting a bit of perspective might do you some good.

I think it's entirely accurate. Take a look at the amount of factions, the amount of quests, the requirements for guild advancement - all of it points towards streamlining the series. Sure you can assert the combat in Skyrim and you'd be right. But the story, the dialogue, all of it cannot compare to Oblivion and especially Morrowind.

Which still does not equal "dumbing down".

They may have made changes that you don't agree with in your own opinion but that doesn't make it "Elder Scrolls for Dummies".

And actually, I do like Skyrim's Story, Quests, and Dialogue better than Oblivion or Morrowind. Each game has been an improvement over the one before it, in my opinion (oops, there's that "O" word again...), and I expect TESVI to be the best one yet.

So why don't we all just quit trying to pass off opinion as indisputable fact?

The only real "dumbed down" feature I can think of is the inclusion of the quest markers. The little arrow on your map that says, "go here" or "do this." Sure it's helpful for a lot of folks and makes the game accessible, but it also creates a sort of tunnel vision, discourages adventure, and makes the game more simplistic.

Having an NPC say, "There's a cave to the north where I lost my magic jock strap." and then having to head (roughly) north to find that cave, getting distracted on the way. Entering the wrong cave, finding some other quest, some loot you didn't expect, or even getting killed... That's a big part of what made Morrowind great. In game like Oblivion and Skyrim, you lose that because you know exactly where you're supposed to go, which makes it a lot easier to just ignore the little distractions along the way. And you can't even just turn of the Map Markers to recreate the experience, because the NPC dialogue assumes the map marker I there. The NPC's don't give you directions, because the dialogue is written with the assumption that it'll show up on your map. So if you turn them off, you don't even know which direction to start looking.

Other than that, I'd say the "dumbing down" phrase really needs to be changed to "streamlined."

I can agree with this. I think a nice "middle-ground" would be to make the Quest markers a toggle option in the game settings menus. This would give the new players to the series a bit of a helping hand, but for the many veterans of the series who would like to actually go and discover it all on their own (which includes figuring out the locations based upon the given dialogue) the level of challenge that they're looking for.

But also going along with that, the writers would need to add more descriptive test to the dialogue options to facilitate those who're wanting to "Lewis and Clark it" in that manner.

I think just adding in a relatively minor change like this would go quite a long way with many players.

Agreed.

Toast_STS

Morrowind

double post cuz of lag. Fix your servers zos.

Toast_STS

Morrowind

WalkingLegacy

Morrowind

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Morrowind had a depth of gameplay and immersion that has not been matched since in my opinion. [1]It's really sad to see Bethesda dumb down the franchise in attempt to appeal to the fickle masses simply to make more money. [2]ESO is an abomination in that respect - it's the most superficial and watered down TES title to date. ZOS is lucky the combat is the best I've played in an MMO, I wouldn't have stuck around otherwise.

1) I really hate that phrase... it's in no way true, and in no way a good descriptor for the games changes.

2) That's because ESO is an MMO first, Elder Scrolls second. It's an MMO with an Elder Scrolls theme. If you were thinking of ESO as a regular Elder Scrolls game with some "online" thrown in, then the problem is you and not the game. The development staff were very clear, many times, before/during/after ESO launched that this is not going to be "Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim Online". If you were still thinking it was going to be that, then you are the problem, not the game.

Take that as you will, but I think stepping back and getting a bit of perspective might do you some good.

I think it's entirely accurate. Take a look at the amount of factions, the amount of quests, the requirements for guild advancement - all of it points towards streamlining the series. Sure you can assert the combat in Skyrim and you'd be right. But the story, the dialogue, all of it cannot compare to Oblivion and especially Morrowind.

Which still does not equal "dumbing down".

They may have made changes that you don't agree with in your own opinion but that doesn't make it "Elder Scrolls for Dummies".

And actually, I do like Skyrim's Story, Quests, and Dialogue better than Oblivion or Morrowind. Each game has been an improvement over the one before it, in my opinion (oops, there's that "O" word again...), and I expect TESVI to be the best one yet.

So why don't we all just quit trying to pass off opinion as indisputable fact?

The only real "dumbed down" feature I can think of is the inclusion of the quest markers. The little arrow on your map that says, "go here" or "do this." Sure it's helpful for a lot of folks and makes the game accessible, but it also creates a sort of tunnel vision, discourages adventure, and makes the game more simplistic.

Having an NPC say, "There's a cave to the north where I lost my magic jock strap." and then having to head (roughly) north to find that cave, getting distracted on the way. Entering the wrong cave, finding some other quest, some loot you didn't expect, or even getting killed... That's a big part of what made Morrowind great. In game like Oblivion and Skyrim, you lose that because you know exactly where you're supposed to go, which makes it a lot easier to just ignore the little distractions along the way. And you can't even just turn of the Map Markers to recreate the experience, because the NPC dialogue assumes the map marker I there. The NPC's don't give you directions, because the dialogue is written with the assumption that it'll show up on your map. So if you turn them off, you don't even know which direction to start looking.

Other than that, I'd say the "dumbing down" phrase really needs to be changed to "streamlined."

I can agree with this. I think a nice "middle-ground" would be to make the Quest markers a toggle option in the game settings menus. This would give the new players to the series a bit of a helping hand, but for the many veterans of the series who would like to actually go and discover it all on their own (which includes figuring out the locations based upon the given dialogue) the level of challenge that they're looking for.

But also going along with that, the writers would need to add more descriptive test to the dialogue options to facilitate those who're wanting to "Lewis and Clark it" in that manner.

I think just adding in a relatively minor change like this would go quite a long way with many players.

Hence the previous argument of "dumbing down" the next two installments.

TESIII told you what was need in quest dialog and every game after that pointed you in the direction.

My favorite moments of WoW were actually reading the quest journal to figure out where my mission was. Then they dumbed it down because of that one mod.

WalkingLegacy

Morrowind

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Morrowind had a depth of gameplay and immersion that has not been matched since in my opinion. [1]It's really sad to see Bethesda dumb down the franchise in attempt to appeal to the fickle masses simply to make more money. [2]ESO is an abomination in that respect - it's the most superficial and watered down TES title to date. ZOS is lucky the combat is the best I've played in an MMO, I wouldn't have stuck around otherwise.

1) I really hate that phrase... it's in no way true, and in no way a good descriptor for the games changes.

2) That's because ESO is an MMO first, Elder Scrolls second. It's an MMO with an Elder Scrolls theme. If you were thinking of ESO as a regular Elder Scrolls game with some "online" thrown in, then the problem is you and not the game. The development staff were very clear, many times, before/during/after ESO launched that this is not going to be "Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim Online". If you were still thinking it was going to be that, then you are the problem, not the game.

Take that as you will, but I think stepping back and getting a bit of perspective might do you some good.

I think it's entirely accurate. Take a look at the amount of factions, the amount of quests, the requirements for guild advancement - all of it points towards streamlining the series. Sure you can assert the combat in Skyrim and you'd be right. But the story, the dialogue, all of it cannot compare to Oblivion and especially Morrowind.

Which still does not equal "dumbing down".

They may have made changes that you don't agree with in your own opinion but that doesn't make it "Elder Scrolls for Dummies".

And actually, I do like Skyrim's Story, Quests, and Dialogue better than Oblivion or Morrowind. Each game has been an improvement over the one before it, in my opinion (oops, there's that "O" word again...), and I expect TESVI to be the best one yet.

So why don't we all just quit trying to pass off opinion as indisputable fact?

The only real "dumbed down" feature I can think of is the inclusion of the quest markers. The little arrow on your map that says, "go here" or "do this." Sure it's helpful for a lot of folks and makes the game accessible, but it also creates a sort of tunnel vision, discourages adventure, and makes the game more simplistic.

Having an NPC say, "There's a cave to the north where I lost my magic jock strap." and then having to head (roughly) north to find that cave, getting distracted on the way. Entering the wrong cave, finding some other quest, some loot you didn't expect, or even getting killed... That's a big part of what made Morrowind great. In game like Oblivion and Skyrim, you lose that because you know exactly where you're supposed to go, which makes it a lot easier to just ignore the little distractions along the way. And you can't even just turn of the Map Markers to recreate the experience, because the NPC dialogue assumes the map marker I there. The NPC's don't give you directions, because the dialogue is written with the assumption that it'll show up on your map. So if you turn them off, you don't even know which direction to start looking.

Other than that, I'd say the "dumbing down" phrase really needs to be changed to "streamlined."

I can agree with this. I think a nice "middle-ground" would be to make the Quest markers a toggle option in the game settings menus. This would give the new players to the series a bit of a helping hand, but for the many veterans of the series who would like to actually go and discover it all on their own (which includes figuring out the locations based upon the given dialogue) the level of challenge that they're looking for.

But also going along with that, the writers would need to add more descriptive test to the dialogue options to facilitate those who're wanting to "Lewis and Clark it" in that manner.

I think just adding in a relatively minor change like this would go quite a long way with many players.

Hence the previous argument of "dumbing down" the next two installments.

TESIII told you what was need in quest dialog and every game after that pointed you in the direction.

My favorite moments of WoW were actually reading the quest journal to figure out where my mission was. Then they dumbed it down because of that one mod.

Uriel_Nocturne

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Morrowind had a depth of gameplay and immersion that has not been matched since in my opinion. [1]It's really sad to see Bethesda dumb down the franchise in attempt to appeal to the fickle masses simply to make more money. [2]ESO is an abomination in that respect - it's the most superficial and watered down TES title to date. ZOS is lucky the combat is the best I've played in an MMO, I wouldn't have stuck around otherwise.

1) I really hate that phrase... it's in no way true, and in no way a good descriptor for the games changes.

2) That's because ESO is an MMO first, Elder Scrolls second. It's an MMO with an Elder Scrolls theme. If you were thinking of ESO as a regular Elder Scrolls game with some "online" thrown in, then the problem is you and not the game. The development staff were very clear, many times, before/during/after ESO launched that this is not going to be "Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim Online". If you were still thinking it was going to be that, then you are the problem, not the game.

Take that as you will, but I think stepping back and getting a bit of perspective might do you some good.

I think it's entirely accurate. Take a look at the amount of factions, the amount of quests, the requirements for guild advancement - all of it points towards streamlining the series. Sure you can assert the combat in Skyrim and you'd be right. But the story, the dialogue, all of it cannot compare to Oblivion and especially Morrowind.

Which still does not equal "dumbing down".

They may have made changes that you don't agree with in your own opinion but that doesn't make it "Elder Scrolls for Dummies".

And actually, I do like Skyrim's Story, Quests, and Dialogue better than Oblivion or Morrowind. Each game has been an improvement over the one before it, in my opinion (oops, there's that "O" word again...), and I expect TESVI to be the best one yet.

So why don't we all just quit trying to pass off opinion as indisputable fact?

The only real "dumbed down" feature I can think of is the inclusion of the quest markers. The little arrow on your map that says, "go here" or "do this." Sure it's helpful for a lot of folks and makes the game accessible, but it also creates a sort of tunnel vision, discourages adventure, and makes the game more simplistic.

Having an NPC say, "There's a cave to the north where I lost my magic jock strap." and then having to head (roughly) north to find that cave, getting distracted on the way. Entering the wrong cave, finding some other quest, some loot you didn't expect, or even getting killed... That's a big part of what made Morrowind great. In game like Oblivion and Skyrim, you lose that because you know exactly where you're supposed to go, which makes it a lot easier to just ignore the little distractions along the way. And you can't even just turn of the Map Markers to recreate the experience, because the NPC dialogue assumes the map marker I there. The NPC's don't give you directions, because the dialogue is written with the assumption that it'll show up on your map. So if you turn them off, you don't even know which direction to start looking.

Other than that, I'd say the "dumbing down" phrase really needs to be changed to "streamlined."

I can agree with this. I think a nice "middle-ground" would be to make the Quest markers a toggle option in the game settings menus. This would give the new players to the series a bit of a helping hand, but for the many veterans of the series who would like to actually go and discover it all on their own (which includes figuring out the locations based upon the given dialogue) the level of challenge that they're looking for.

But also going along with that, the writers would need to add more descriptive test to the dialogue options to facilitate those who're wanting to "Lewis and Clark it" in that manner.

I think just adding in a relatively minor change like this would go quite a long way with many players.

Hence the previous argument of "dumbing down" the next two installments.

TESIII told you what was need in quest dialog and every game after that pointed you in the direction.

My favorite moments of WoW were actually reading the quest journal to figure out where my mission was. Then they dumbed it down because of that one mod.

*sigh*

I'm just done with this argument. Our opinions are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

I'm just going to leave it at that.

WalkingLegacy

Morrowind

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Morrowind had a depth of gameplay and immersion that has not been matched since in my opinion. [1]It's really sad to see Bethesda dumb down the franchise in attempt to appeal to the fickle masses simply to make more money. [2]ESO is an abomination in that respect - it's the most superficial and watered down TES title to date. ZOS is lucky the combat is the best I've played in an MMO, I wouldn't have stuck around otherwise.

1) I really hate that phrase... it's in no way true, and in no way a good descriptor for the games changes.

2) That's because ESO is an MMO first, Elder Scrolls second. It's an MMO with an Elder Scrolls theme. If you were thinking of ESO as a regular Elder Scrolls game with some "online" thrown in, then the problem is you and not the game. The development staff were very clear, many times, before/during/after ESO launched that this is not going to be "Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim Online". If you were still thinking it was going to be that, then you are the problem, not the game.

Take that as you will, but I think stepping back and getting a bit of perspective might do you some good.

I think it's entirely accurate. Take a look at the amount of factions, the amount of quests, the requirements for guild advancement - all of it points towards streamlining the series. Sure you can assert the combat in Skyrim and you'd be right. But the story, the dialogue, all of it cannot compare to Oblivion and especially Morrowind.

Which still does not equal "dumbing down".

They may have made changes that you don't agree with in your own opinion but that doesn't make it "Elder Scrolls for Dummies".

And actually, I do like Skyrim's Story, Quests, and Dialogue better than Oblivion or Morrowind. Each game has been an improvement over the one before it, in my opinion (oops, there's that "O" word again...), and I expect TESVI to be the best one yet.

So why don't we all just quit trying to pass off opinion as indisputable fact?

The only real "dumbed down" feature I can think of is the inclusion of the quest markers. The little arrow on your map that says, "go here" or "do this." Sure it's helpful for a lot of folks and makes the game accessible, but it also creates a sort of tunnel vision, discourages adventure, and makes the game more simplistic.

Having an NPC say, "There's a cave to the north where I lost my magic jock strap." and then having to head (roughly) north to find that cave, getting distracted on the way. Entering the wrong cave, finding some other quest, some loot you didn't expect, or even getting killed... That's a big part of what made Morrowind great. In game like Oblivion and Skyrim, you lose that because you know exactly where you're supposed to go, which makes it a lot easier to just ignore the little distractions along the way. And you can't even just turn of the Map Markers to recreate the experience, because the NPC dialogue assumes the map marker I there. The NPC's don't give you directions, because the dialogue is written with the assumption that it'll show up on your map. So if you turn them off, you don't even know which direction to start looking.

Other than that, I'd say the "dumbing down" phrase really needs to be changed to "streamlined."

I can agree with this. I think a nice "middle-ground" would be to make the Quest markers a toggle option in the game settings menus. This would give the new players to the series a bit of a helping hand, but for the many veterans of the series who would like to actually go and discover it all on their own (which includes figuring out the locations based upon the given dialogue) the level of challenge that they're looking for.

But also going along with that, the writers would need to add more descriptive test to the dialogue options to facilitate those who're wanting to "Lewis and Clark it" in that manner.

I think just adding in a relatively minor change like this would go quite a long way with many players.

Hence the previous argument of "dumbing down" the next two installments.

TESIII told you what was need in quest dialog and every game after that pointed you in the direction.

My favorite moments of WoW were actually reading the quest journal to figure out where my mission was. Then they dumbed it down because of that one mod.

*sigh*

I'm just done with this argument. Our opinions are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

I'm just going to leave it at that.

It's not an opinion if before you had to read where you were going, and the next installment the game just tells you where to go. There's no argument, it's that simple in that example.

Uriel_Nocturne

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Morrowind had a depth of gameplay and immersion that has not been matched since in my opinion. [1]It's really sad to see Bethesda dumb down the franchise in attempt to appeal to the fickle masses simply to make more money. [2]ESO is an abomination in that respect - it's the most superficial and watered down TES title to date. ZOS is lucky the combat is the best I've played in an MMO, I wouldn't have stuck around otherwise.

1) I really hate that phrase... it's in no way true, and in no way a good descriptor for the games changes.

2) That's because ESO is an MMO first, Elder Scrolls second. It's an MMO with an Elder Scrolls theme. If you were thinking of ESO as a regular Elder Scrolls game with some "online" thrown in, then the problem is you and not the game. The development staff were very clear, many times, before/during/after ESO launched that this is not going to be "Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim Online". If you were still thinking it was going to be that, then you are the problem, not the game.

Take that as you will, but I think stepping back and getting a bit of perspective might do you some good.

I think it's entirely accurate. Take a look at the amount of factions, the amount of quests, the requirements for guild advancement - all of it points towards streamlining the series. Sure you can assert the combat in Skyrim and you'd be right. But the story, the dialogue, all of it cannot compare to Oblivion and especially Morrowind.

Which still does not equal "dumbing down".

They may have made changes that you don't agree with in your own opinion but that doesn't make it "Elder Scrolls for Dummies".

And actually, I do like Skyrim's Story, Quests, and Dialogue better than Oblivion or Morrowind. Each game has been an improvement over the one before it, in my opinion (oops, there's that "O" word again...), and I expect TESVI to be the best one yet.

So why don't we all just quit trying to pass off opinion as indisputable fact?

The only real "dumbed down" feature I can think of is the inclusion of the quest markers. The little arrow on your map that says, "go here" or "do this." Sure it's helpful for a lot of folks and makes the game accessible, but it also creates a sort of tunnel vision, discourages adventure, and makes the game more simplistic.

Having an NPC say, "There's a cave to the north where I lost my magic jock strap." and then having to head (roughly) north to find that cave, getting distracted on the way. Entering the wrong cave, finding some other quest, some loot you didn't expect, or even getting killed... That's a big part of what made Morrowind great. In game like Oblivion and Skyrim, you lose that because you know exactly where you're supposed to go, which makes it a lot easier to just ignore the little distractions along the way. And you can't even just turn of the Map Markers to recreate the experience, because the NPC dialogue assumes the map marker I there. The NPC's don't give you directions, because the dialogue is written with the assumption that it'll show up on your map. So if you turn them off, you don't even know which direction to start looking.

Other than that, I'd say the "dumbing down" phrase really needs to be changed to "streamlined."

I can agree with this. I think a nice "middle-ground" would be to make the Quest markers a toggle option in the game settings menus. This would give the new players to the series a bit of a helping hand, but for the many veterans of the series who would like to actually go and discover it all on their own (which includes figuring out the locations based upon the given dialogue) the level of challenge that they're looking for.

But also going along with that, the writers would need to add more descriptive test to the dialogue options to facilitate those who're wanting to "Lewis and Clark it" in that manner.

I think just adding in a relatively minor change like this would go quite a long way with many players.

Hence the previous argument of "dumbing down" the next two installments.

TESIII told you what was need in quest dialog and every game after that pointed you in the direction.

My favorite moments of WoW were actually reading the quest journal to figure out where my mission was. Then they dumbed it down because of that one mod.

*sigh*

I'm just done with this argument. Our opinions are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

I'm just going to leave it at that.

It's not an opinion if before you had to read where you were going, and the next installment the game just tells you where to go. There's no argument, it's that simple in that example.

No, the "opinion" part comes from the difference in views between "dumbing down" and "streamlining".

Drelkag

Morrowind

Amazing how close the poll is. Great games all around.

Volkodav

Morrowind

Flameheart wrote: »

I played all of the "big three" above and it was a tough choice for me. I chose Skyrim because of the fact, that it provides the most "modability" and the biggest number of available mods when it comes to Nexus. Modding is the most important aspect for me when it comes to TES. While - for example - adding ENB for TES was not existing for Morrowind, had some impact for Oblivion, it is a godlike feature for Skyrim.

I still have a modded Skyrim installation on my PC which I update on a regular - almost daily - base. As I had two complete play-throughs yet, I just use it to stress my reference hardware to optimize visuals and doing screenhots in WQHD resolution and higher.

Really? I have always love the amount of mods for Morrowind.Nexus has tons of them. The community has been modding it for much longer than Skyrim,and still make new ones all the time. I had some of the mods for Skyrim,but quite a few were pretty buggy. Like armor mods.I'd say 90% of the mods I have in Morrowind work nicely.There are massive expansions that the community have created and total overhauls that are a lot of fun,once I finished the game.

Bananko

Mmm... The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited!

Gidorick

Oblivion

Wow. The activity on this thread is a testament to the love we all have for the TES franchise.

ZOS should take note and take more inspiration from them.

magnusthorek

Skyrim

I have to say Skyrim. Morrowind IMHO, was the worst of the "latest" three I played. My opinion, I respect yours. Not only the low graphics, even because there's a huge mod that improved a lot, but I didn't like the story.

Oblivion was awesome but characters were weird looking, like talking statues without spines. Mods tried to alleviate the issue but ended getting the problem worse XD. But Shivering Isles was really nice! What can I say, it's Uncle Shaggy

But the most awful thing in Oblivion was the excessive OP-ness of crafted weapons. The last battle in IC, even that holy geez amount of Daedras was easy. Much different of the beginning of the game that even a Scamp was too much (and the first tow, Kvatch if I'm not mistaken, had a lot of them O_O)

Skyrim got my heart. I played that thing 8 times (not 100% everytime, of course). My beautiful house (Elysium Estate mod), custom armors, playing as Vampire or Dawnguard (in multiple runs). Serana! OMG! Serana was THE follower...

In the last playthrough I wanted all difficult mods installed to really stress out and was a painful pleasure (that sounded awkward )

ShedsHisTail

Morrowind

My biggest beef with Oblivion was that at higher levels, everything was easy to kill... But also it took forever.
Like, I had no problems killing things, it just took five minutes per beasty to work through all the hit points.

Cinbri

Morrowind

After Morrowind, all other tes game were weaker and weaker... Or just Tes 3 was such god-like.

WalkingLegacy

Morrowind

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Morrowind had a depth of gameplay and immersion that has not been matched since in my opinion. [1]It's really sad to see Bethesda dumb down the franchise in attempt to appeal to the fickle masses simply to make more money. [2]ESO is an abomination in that respect - it's the most superficial and watered down TES title to date. ZOS is lucky the combat is the best I've played in an MMO, I wouldn't have stuck around otherwise.

1) I really hate that phrase... it's in no way true, and in no way a good descriptor for the games changes.

2) That's because ESO is an MMO first, Elder Scrolls second. It's an MMO with an Elder Scrolls theme. If you were thinking of ESO as a regular Elder Scrolls game with some "online" thrown in, then the problem is you and not the game. The development staff were very clear, many times, before/during/after ESO launched that this is not going to be "Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim Online". If you were still thinking it was going to be that, then you are the problem, not the game.

Take that as you will, but I think stepping back and getting a bit of perspective might do you some good.

I think it's entirely accurate. Take a look at the amount of factions, the amount of quests, the requirements for guild advancement - all of it points towards streamlining the series. Sure you can assert the combat in Skyrim and you'd be right. But the story, the dialogue, all of it cannot compare to Oblivion and especially Morrowind.

Which still does not equal "dumbing down".

They may have made changes that you don't agree with in your own opinion but that doesn't make it "Elder Scrolls for Dummies".

And actually, I do like Skyrim's Story, Quests, and Dialogue better than Oblivion or Morrowind. Each game has been an improvement over the one before it, in my opinion (oops, there's that "O" word again...), and I expect TESVI to be the best one yet.

So why don't we all just quit trying to pass off opinion as indisputable fact?

The only real "dumbed down" feature I can think of is the inclusion of the quest markers. The little arrow on your map that says, "go here" or "do this." Sure it's helpful for a lot of folks and makes the game accessible, but it also creates a sort of tunnel vision, discourages adventure, and makes the game more simplistic.

Having an NPC say, "There's a cave to the north where I lost my magic jock strap." and then having to head (roughly) north to find that cave, getting distracted on the way. Entering the wrong cave, finding some other quest, some loot you didn't expect, or even getting killed... That's a big part of what made Morrowind great. In game like Oblivion and Skyrim, you lose that because you know exactly where you're supposed to go, which makes it a lot easier to just ignore the little distractions along the way. And you can't even just turn of the Map Markers to recreate the experience, because the NPC dialogue assumes the map marker I there. The NPC's don't give you directions, because the dialogue is written with the assumption that it'll show up on your map. So if you turn them off, you don't even know which direction to start looking.

Other than that, I'd say the "dumbing down" phrase really needs to be changed to "streamlined."

I can agree with this. I think a nice "middle-ground" would be to make the Quest markers a toggle option in the game settings menus. This would give the new players to the series a bit of a helping hand, but for the many veterans of the series who would like to actually go and discover it all on their own (which includes figuring out the locations based upon the given dialogue) the level of challenge that they're looking for.

But also going along with that, the writers would need to add more descriptive test to the dialogue options to facilitate those who're wanting to "Lewis and Clark it" in that manner.

I think just adding in a relatively minor change like this would go quite a long way with many players.

Hence the previous argument of "dumbing down" the next two installments.

TESIII told you what was need in quest dialog and every game after that pointed you in the direction.

My favorite moments of WoW were actually reading the quest journal to figure out where my mission was. Then they dumbed it down because of that one mod.

*sigh*

I'm just done with this argument. Our opinions are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

I'm just going to leave it at that.

It's not an opinion if before you had to read where you were going, and the next installment the game just tells you where to go. There's no argument, it's that simple in that example.

No, the "opinion" part comes from the difference in views between "dumbing down" and "streamlining".

Not really. Taking away your ability to think is "dumbing down"

A lot of gamers don't like to think when it comes to questing, which is why developers have taken the effort out of it.

You call it streamlining, sure, whatever makes you feel better. It IS still dumbing down. Making it easier. Taking the little effort away to account for the masses.

cyclonus11

Morrowind

The most OP thing from Oblivion was being able to enchant your armor to 100% chameleon. I also beat the main quest at level 5, making all of the sigil stones worthless as I leveled up.

I did like the concept of the Gray Fox mask. That was fun.

DragonSamurai360

Oblivion

First Elder Scrolls game I ever played is the Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion and absolutely fell in love with the gorgeous scenery, art, soundtrack, characters, combat, and overall the whole game and is actually the only game I ever bothered completing 100% of all the Xbox achievements. Skyrim was good, great even, but it did not give me the same feeling that Oblivion did. ESOTU I happen to feel the same way that I do about Oblivion, but with it having large amounts of performance issues on Xbox One currently, meaning I need to take breaks here and there with all the darn stuttering, lag, etc. I do have slow internet, but the performance was fine before Thieves Guild released. I only log in to buy the limited time items when they come on until they fix the performance issues, which the devs said they were going to fix for the Dark Brotherhood update.

Volkodav

Morrowind

magnusthorek wrote: »

I have to say Skyrim. Morrowind IMHO, was the worst of the "latest" three I played. My opinion, I respect yours. Not only the low graphics, even because there's a huge mod that improved a lot, but I didn't like the story.

Oblivion was awesome but characters were weird looking, like talking statues without spines. Mods tried to alleviate the issue but ended getting the problem worse XD. But Shivering Isles was really nice! What can I say, it's Uncle Shaggy

But the most awful thing in Oblivion was the excessive OP-ness of crafted weapons. The last battle in IC, even that holy geez amount of Daedras was easy. Much different of the beginning of the game that even a Scamp was too much (and the first tow, Kvatch if I'm not mistaken, had a lot of them O_O)

Skyrim got my heart. I played that thing 8 times (not 100% everytime, of course). My beautiful house (Elysium Estate mod), custom armors, playing as Vampire or Dawnguard (in multiple runs). Serana! OMG! Serana was THE follower...

In the last playthrough I wanted all difficult mods installed to really stress out and was a painful pleasure (that sounded awkward )

Thing is about Morrowind is that when it came out,it was the top of the line and first in it's open worldness.It was the best of the best.

newtinmpls

Morrowind

Morrowind.

Still have it on my computer.

Still have the music (and many many covers by fan musicians) on my computer.

HATE HATE HATE the way ESO did cliff racers (they should NOT have feathers) and nix hounds (too small, too twitchy) and kwama (not cute enough, their eyes should be bigger) moon sugar (it's an entheogen NOT a food product)... and and and

....I'm calm now ..... really .....
.

LBxFinalDeath

Elder Scrolls 2: Daggerfall.

Daggerfall 4 lyfe.

Volkodav

Morrowind

newtinmpls wrote: »

Morrowind.

Still have it on my computer.

Still have the music (and many many covers by fan musicians) on my computer.

HATE HATE HATE the way ESO did cliff racers (they should NOT have feathers) and nix hounds (too small, too twitchy) and kwama (not cute enough, their eyes should be bigger) moon sugar (it's an entheogen NOT a food product)... and and and

....I'm calm now ..... really .....
.

At least the supposed Cliffracers ESO arent called that!If they were,that would be so sad.
Also,the oens in ESO dont attack you,and quite frankly,..I miss that.And their sound.

ShedsHisTail

Morrowind

Yeah, I'll believe those are cliffracers when we get to Vvardenfell and they have a label.

Volkodav

Morrowind

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Yeah, I'll believe those are cliffracers when we get to Vvardenfell and they have a label.

Yup,..in our dreams?

ShedsHisTail

Morrowind

Volkodav wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Yeah, I'll believe those are cliffracers when we get to Vvardenfell and they have a label.

Yup,..in our dreams?

I'm just saying, not a single one has attacked me let alone the swarm I'm used to.
Those -aren't- cliffracers.

Volkodav

Morrowind

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Yeah, I'll believe those are cliffracers when we get to Vvardenfell and they have a label.

Yup,..in our dreams?

I'm just saying, not a single one has attacked me let alone the swarm I'm used to.
Those -aren't- cliffracers.

Oh,I know.You are absolutely right.As I said in my other comment,they arent called Cliffracers,and they dont attack,which I love.I love that screeing sound too.I miss it!