Let's compromise on the new PvP skill line progression

Cuyler

leepalmer95 wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

Remember ZOS has stats that we do not and the change being so slow is probably because there are TONS of players with a very low AP rating.

The change is low because they need to balance things out especially for console players who lacked the one year of play time in PvP to rank up quickly using exploit methods.

Yet i'm a console player who has proxy det on 3 characters. Did i grind it? No? It took time though, took hard work/effort and gold to earn the hard but effective skills now.

Now with this change i could of earned proxy det on a character in 1 day.

It's ridiculous and the result of pve crying about having to do something they don't like. Much like the fact in order to pvp, pvpers have to go and do the entirety of pvp as well as grind mage/fighers guild

But hey if your nerfing grinding, lets nerf mage/fighters/undaunted/lvl1-50 grind/v1-16 grind while where there by 90%?

Seems fair.

You got a Monster Helm Vendor. Your QQ is invalid.

Nikkor

this _ signed.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_TristanK

MrGigglypants

Get over it. It puts everyone on the same level minus cp and gear I don't see an issue.

Taleof2Cities

Great thread, @code65536 , this has encouraged a lot of discussion.

Now hoping that ZOS is looking this way ...

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Lol @ people that wants to nerf the time it takes to get fighters/mages guild skills, if they'd lower the time needed I'd have it all done in an afternoon....

Saying that it'd be fair to lower the time on those would just make it needed to lower the pvp skill line grind even more to bring them in line with the rest, right now on the pts the alliance was skills take around the same amount of time compared to mages guild for example. If anyone gets their e-peen hurt or something by zenimax lowering the time it takes, well, deal with it or leave the game.

LadyNalcarya

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Lol @ people that wants to nerf the time it takes to get fighters/mages guild skills, if they'd lower the time needed I'd have it all done in an afternoon....

Saying that it'd be fair to lower the time on those would just make it needed to lower the pvp skill line grind even more to bring them in line with the rest, right now on the pts the alliance was skills take around the same amount of time compared to mages guild for example. If anyone gets their e-peen hurt or something by zenimax lowering the time it takes, well, deal with it or leave the game.

In fact, they've already nerfed the amount of ap required for Vigor and Detonation. When they were just released, only really dedicated players were able to use them. And I remember the same arguments, that lowering the cost so drastically will kill pvp etc.

code65536

It's been suggested that the passives are the ones that can potentially cause balance problems, and the active skills are the ones that PvEers want the most.

So how about this as a further compromise: Use the skill rank progression as I propose here, but move the active skills down a skill rank. So, for example, Vigor would be Assault 4, and Magicka Det would be Assault 6.

This would make the active skills as cheaply available as they are now on the PTS, to satisfy the PvEers who want the skills to use in PvE, but for the PvPers concerned about balance issues, the powerful passives such as Combat Frenzy 2 would require the relatively higher rank of Lieutenant.

leepalmer95

Cuyler wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

Remember ZOS has stats that we do not and the change being so slow is probably because there are TONS of players with a very low AP rating.

The change is low because they need to balance things out especially for console players who lacked the one year of play time in PvP to rank up quickly using exploit methods.

Yet i'm a console player who has proxy det on 3 characters. Did i grind it? No? It took time though, took hard work/effort and gold to earn the hard but effective skills now.

Now with this change i could of earned proxy det on a character in 1 day.

It's ridiculous and the result of pve crying about having to do something they don't like. Much like the fact in order to pvp, pvpers have to go and do the entirety of pvp as well as grind mage/fighers guild

But hey if your nerfing grinding, lets nerf mage/fighters/undaunted/lvl1-50 grind/v1-16 grind while where there by 90%?

Seems fair.

You got a Monster Helm Vendor. Your QQ is invalid.

Funny you say that, I saw far more pve players complaining about the rng than i did pvp players.

So actually YOU got your monster helm vendor, your 'Give me easy mode' is invalid.

Ra'Shtar

Why not just make the last passives rank 10 and then make rank 10 take 8 million AP to get? That way it will by like its on live 5% of cyro has the passives and that 5% steam rolls everyone GREAT BALANCE!!!

IxSTALKERxI

I don't think this change is going to be good for the non-vet campaign blackwater blade lol. All the good players there will easily have prox det ( which is very powerful this update) and will 1 shot the new players who are unintentionally grouped up together.

Koopa

I'm all for having the skills easier to obtain. Allowing more people access to the higher level skill is a good thing, I think it is anyways. This also means, hopefully, at some point we can get new skills added to the two skill lines at higher levels.

In terms of your own alliance rank, title, I've never really cared about it. I've always focused on the skills/passives.

LadyNalcarya

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

I don't think this change is going to be good for the non-vet campaign blackwater blade lol. All the good players there will easily have prox det ( which is very powerful this update) and will 1 shot the new players who are unintentionally grouped up together.

In bwb, experienced players are already pwning newbies, they have good gear and cps which gives great advantage with the current scaling system.
Without champion points, it will be much better even if everyone will get caltrops/detonation

ashlee17

quote="Thealteregoroman;2664437"]

Metafae wrote: »

I have eight characters at v16, and I've been wanting to get these pvp skills on all of them, but you're not going to see me in pvp 9 hours a day every day.

These might seem trivial to you, but to someone like me, it's a nice change. On one character it'll be laughably easy to get the skills, but do that again 7 more times, and you'll see it's at least some kind of grind, but at least now it's something I'm willing to work for.

THIS!!!![/quote]

This!

code65536

ashlee17 wrote: »

Thealteregoroman wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

I have eight characters at v16, and I've been wanting to get these pvp skills on all of them, but you're not going to see me in pvp 9 hours a day every day.

These might seem trivial to you, but to someone like me, it's a nice change. On one character it'll be laughably easy to get the skills, but do that again 7 more times, and you'll see it's at least some kind of grind, but at least now it's something I'm willing to work for.

THIS!!!!

This!

I have alts too. I want magicka det on them too. And I want it to be easier to get, too.

But that doesn't mean we should make it too easy such that it becomes almost free. You still have to level up each alt. You still have to collect skyshards and lorebooks on each alt. You still need to do pledges on each alt for Undaunted. You still need to kill Daedra on each alt for Fighter's Guild.

The current AP cost on Live is, for people who don't regularly PvP, pretty extreme. But the current AP cost on the PTS is pretty extreme, too, in the opposite direction. Especially if you also factor in the increases in AP gain that is going to be implemented.

notimetocare

Xendyn wrote: »

paul_j wrote: »

So it's only an issue as something to be "earned". Nothing about this is a balance issue?

No, if you read the OP, it's an issue of they swung it too much and made it sloppy to boot.
Making it easier is one thing.
Making it trivial is something else.

It is still going to be the longest skill-line grind in the entire game lol..

D0ntevenL1ft

leepalmer95 wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

Remember ZOS has stats that we do not and the change being so slow is probably because there are TONS of players with a very low AP rating.

The change is low because they need to balance things out especially for console players who lacked the one year of play time in PvP to rank up quickly using exploit methods.

Yet i'm a console player who has proxy det on 3 characters. Did i grind it? No? It took time though, took hard work/effort and gold to earn the hard but effective skills now.

Now with this change i could of earned proxy det on a character in 1 day.

It's ridiculous and the result of pve crying about having to do something they don't like. Much like the fact in order to pvp, pvpers have to go and do the entirety of pvp as well as grind mage/fighers guild

But hey if your nerfing grinding, lets nerf mage/fighters/undaunted/lvl1-50 grind/v1-16 grind while where there by 90%?

Seems fair.

See i disagree with this type of argument. All players should have equal chance within a fight. How is it fun beating my magicka DK who doesn't have proxy when you have so much more burst at your disposal? Now i think these AP requirements are too low and the suggest 600k is better for proxy but i don't support the argument "i hated grinding for it so you also must suffer". Share the love gang.

TotterTates

Funny, brings back memories of the cries for CP caps, because not having the time to mindlessly grind exp put pvpers at a disadvantage. CP are no different than your beloved alliance ranks.

If someone would just come in here and be honest by saying "I worked too damn hard for this", I may listen to them because that's how I felt when the cp cap negated 200 of my CP. I'd still laugh and rejoice, but I'd listen...

I, for one, welcome our new lower AP overlords.

Taleof2Cities

@code65536 - Just making sure you saw today's natch potes for update v2.3.2 (and bumping the thread).

This might now be in line with what you were expecting, and, congrats on an effective thread topic.

Alliance War

• Assault
  • Increased the amount of AP required to rank up this skill line by approximately 80% compared to current PTS values.
• Support
  • Increased the amount of AP required to rank up this skill line by approximately 80% compared to current PTS values.

Enodoc

Here's an updated table:

Ayantir wrote: »

Little excel stuff

If those are the values they are aiming for, I wish they would adjust them slightly so they would line up with Alliance Ranks:

• Rank 2 – 700 (AR 1, Volunteer I)
• Rank 3 – 8,000 (AR 3, Rrcruit I)
• Rank 4 – 48,000 (AR 5, Tyro I)
• Rank 5 – 88,000 (AR 6, Tyro II)
• Rank 6 – 224,000 (AR 8, Legionary II)
• Rank 7 – 326,400 (AR 9, Veteran I)
• Rank 8 – 456,000 (AR 10, Veteran II)
• Rank 9 – 809,600 (AR 12, Corporal II)
• Rank 10 – 1,310,400 (AR 14, Sergeant II), or 1,040,000 (AR 13, Sergeant I)