End Game Stamina Nightblade Build- PvE DPS (Updated for Clockwork City)

Miklo7662

Hey Gill, is your CP setup the same for vma? Or do you change it?

Gilliamtherogue

Miklo7662 wrote: »

Hey Gill, is your CP setup the same for vma? Or do you change it?

It's the exact same as it is for PvE.

LadyLethalla

@Gilliamtherogue I just found this and I want to say thanks. I'm always looking to buff my RG NB and your guide actually lists doable sets for a mainly-soloer like myself, instead of the usual Monster Helm (or otherwise pretty much impossible for me to obtain) type. Though, I really doubt I'm going to be able to get through MA, let alone vMA...

Miklo7662

It's the exact same as it is for PvE.[/quote]

I thought so, had to make sure. Thanks.

Miklo7662

LadyLethalla wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue I just found this and I want to say thanks. I'm always looking to buff my RG NB and your guide actually lists doable sets for a mainly-soloer like myself, instead of the usual Monster Helm (or otherwise pretty much impossible for me to obtain) type. Though, I really doubt I'm going to be able to get through MA, let alone vMA...

It is possible, especially now that you can save your progress after the thieves guild dlc. I can get to final round in theater of dispair. Hopefully i can beat it in the next few days. Its definitely a challenge. Dont expect to breeze through it. I've died hundreds of times and have put in ALOT of hours. You should definitely run it in normal first and see what its like, just dont give up

SanTii.92

Hey Gill, I've been heavy farming Coa for the Sunderflame drops and I'm missing just one divines piece now, but before fully commiting with the enchants, and upgades wanted to ask first, about th rotation. Where would you drop the fully heavy attack? Was thinking about buffs > comet, caltrops, injection, barrage > swap, heavy attack, trap, rending slashes, soul harvest, Sa weaving. But I'm not sure, at the point I start weaving, injction might be down already, maybe squeezing just one or two Sa. Would you make any particular consideration when using the set?

And second, Sunderflame looks to be specially good in trials with tailored strategies, but what about a direct comparison with Nightmother's on 4-man or Msa?

Thanks man

Gilliamtherogue

sAnn92 wrote: »

Hey Gill, I've been heavy farming Coa for the Sunderflame drops and I'm missing just one divines piece now, but before fully commiting with the enchants, and upgades wanted to ask first, about th rotation. Where would you drop the fully heavy attack? Was thinking about buffs > comet, caltrops, injection, barrage > swap, heavy attack, trap, rending slashes, soul harvest, Sa weaving. But I'm not sure, at the point I start weaving, injction might be down already, maybe squeezing just one or two Sa. Would you make any particular consideration when using the set?

And second, Sunderflame looks to be specially good in trials with tailored strategies, but what about a direct comparison with Nightmother's on 4-man or Msa?

Thanks man

Anytime you can start a fight in stealth, enter stealth and get behind your target, apply as many self buffs as you can while not breaking stealth. Charge a full heavy attack and drop a meteor and immediately cast trap beast, while swapping bars at the same time, double tap caltrops, then weave injection into a arrow barrage, and bar swapping back immediately after 2nd tap of arrow barrage. Apply rending slashes/etc and go into your rotation, holding down the heavy attack key/button and hitting SA or Rapid as fast as you can, so that it will clip the fluff of the heavy attack animation.

You want to light weave while applying debuffs and self buffs, and then heavy weave when you're doing your spammable when everything is up.

I'd likely stick to NM or Hundings in VMA since it's all about speed, and while HA offers more sustained DPS with the 5pc Sunderflame, it lacks in burst; which is what VMA is all about. I'd still run Sunder in 4 mans though, unless you're doing the really early made dungeons where everything dies instantly.

Royalbladez

@Gilliamtherogue

Hey, it's me again I was just wondering for Vet Maelstrom arena do you use 3pc agility or 3pc endurance with x2 stam recovery and 1 weapon damage enchants?

Gilliamtherogue

Royalbladez wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue

Hey, it's me again I was just wondering for Vet Maelstrom arena do you use 3pc agility or 3pc endurance with x2 stam recovery and 1 weapon damage enchants?

I've been trying to slowly switch over to 3pc agility with all 3 weapon damage enchants and have completed a run (I think my new highest score?) but the loss of regen and health gets me killed a few times.

Otherwise I use 3pc Endurance with 2 recovery 1 wep damage (purple enchants on those)

ZOS_DaryaK

We've removed an off-topic post from this discussion.

LadyLethalla

Miklo7662 wrote: »

LadyLethalla wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue I just found this and I want to say thanks. I'm always looking to buff my RG NB and your guide actually lists doable sets for a mainly-soloer like myself, instead of the usual Monster Helm (or otherwise pretty much impossible for me to obtain) type. Though, I really doubt I'm going to be able to get through MA, let alone vMA...

It is possible, especially now that you can save your progress after the thieves guild dlc. I can get to final round in theater of dispair. Hopefully i can beat it in the next few days. Its definitely a challenge. Dont expect to breeze through it. I've died hundreds of times and have put in A LOT of hours. You should definitely run it in normal first and see what its like, just dont give up

Thanks - I'll give it a try
But... can MA normal be done solo...?

Royalbladez

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Royalbladez wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue

Hey, it's me again I was just wondering for Vet Maelstrom arena do you use 3pc agility or 3pc endurance with x2 stam recovery and 1 weapon damage enchants?

I've been trying to slowly switch over to 3pc agility with all 3 weapon damage enchants and have completed a run (I think my new highest score?) but the loss of regen and health gets me killed a few times.

Otherwise I use 3pc Endurance with 2 recovery 1 wep damage (purple enchants on those)

Yeh I am running x3 endurance(x2 recovery,x1 weapon damage) with 2 valkyn skoria, 5 hundings, 2 Leki's with hundings bow but my stats are 32k max stamina(with food) with 1,8k recovery and 2720 weapon damage. Is that fine for veteran maelstrom arena or should I maybe try and get my weapon damage up a little bit?

Gilliamtherogue

LadyLethalla wrote: »

Miklo7662 wrote: »

LadyLethalla wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue I just found this and I want to say thanks. I'm always looking to buff my RG NB and your guide actually lists doable sets for a mainly-soloer like myself, instead of the usual Monster Helm (or otherwise pretty much impossible for me to obtain) type. Though, I really doubt I'm going to be able to get through MA, let alone vMA...

It is possible, especially now that you can save your progress after the thieves guild dlc. I can get to final round in theater of dispair. Hopefully i can beat it in the next few days. Its definitely a challenge. Dont expect to breeze through it. I've died hundreds of times and have put in A LOT of hours. You should definitely run it in normal first and see what its like, just dont give up

Thanks - I'll give it a try
But... can MA normal be done solo...?

Maelstrom Arena is solo only, normal and vet.

Turbatus

@Gilliamtherogue

So I've asked a ton of people this question, but they always go silent after. It's like I'm asking about the illuminati or something...

Against high cp players, would NMG still outshine hundings? Or would the raw weapon damage become better than the 2460 armor reduction?

ryanborror

With dark brotherhood coming what do you pick for weapon enchants if not using maelstrom? Poison, weapon damage, crushing?

SanTii.92

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/266149/item-sets-available-from-rewards-for-the-worthy-bags-ap-vendors#latest anything interesting sensei? Ravager seems worth trying maybe.

On a side note, Ma Daggers over Axes? Dual Sharp, a mixed, or depends on the situation?

Gilliamtherogue

Turbatus wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue

So I've asked a ton of people this question, but they always go silent after. It's like I'm asking about the illuminati or something...

Against high cp players, would NMG still outshine hundings? Or would the raw weapon damage become better than the 2460 armor reduction?

NMG doesn't lose to Hundings unless one or more of the following; Someone else is running the debuff, the target getting hit by NMG has exactly or less than 2580 Physical Resistance, or your damage (tooltip) is so low that it does not benefit from the % gain compared to a low static boost. The last one only comes into play for non optimized, or really really low CP builds.

Gilliamtherogue

ryanborror wrote: »

With dark brotherhood coming what do you pick for weapon enchants if not using maelstrom? Poison, weapon damage, crushing?

Weapon damage main, poison off. Only use crushing off hand if you are solo.

Gilliamtherogue

sAnn92 wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/266149/item-sets-available-from-rewards-for-the-worthy-bags-ap-vendors#latest anything interesting sensei? Ravager seems worth trying maybe.

On a side note, Ma Daggers over Axes? Dual Sharp, a mixed, or depends on the situation?

Impossible to say without being able to test them. Ravager needs to come in Divines, as well as all Robust jewelry in order to be remotely close to other setups. Also sacrificing a monster set is a pretty big DPS loss, so I'm not really expecting much.

Morag+Hawk will breathe a little bit of life back into the bow build, but still not much.

2 Mael Precise Daggers in AoE (group), 1 Precise 1 Sharp in solo AoE

1 Mael Axe 1 Mael Dagger both precise in single target (group), 1 Sharp, 1 Precise in solo single target.

Those are the optimal setups.

Turbatus

Sweet! Finally an answer!

So NMG head, chest, legs, hands, and feet.

Leki daggers (1 sharp, 1 precise) leki belt

3x agility jewelry

1 Kena shoulder

I will now stop asking so many questions lol. Thanks for dealing with me.

bantycakes

@Gilliamtherogue Loving the guide, certainly needed it! It was linked to me in a thread where I cried about the woes of my broken Bosmer Stamblade who is still currently being fixed. I just wanted to clarify on the optimal gear setup and enchants/glyphs/traits before I invest and make a mess.

According to the first page, optimal Stamblade setup is:

5 piece (chest/gloves/belt/boots/legs since we're also using Nerien'eth?) Nightmother's with Divines. Stamina enchants? (I've had to use Health since mine was >20k, still trying to find a way to balance damage and health.)
2 piece Nerien'eth (head and shoulders, right?) with Divines. Again, which enchants?
3 piece Agility jewelry with Robust traits. What enchant? I went with weapon damage.
2 piece Leki's weapons - daggers with precise trait. I used weapon damage enchants, is this okay?

*I'm running 2 piece Hunding's Rage until I can get Nerien'eth. Would you recommend something else? And I'm using Healthy Endurance rings until I can get Robust Agility. Would I be better off switching those for Leki's, too?

Sorry for so many questions, I've just realized that I have lost all ability to make a successful stamina rogue-ish character between Skyrim and the launch of ESO.

Turbatus

bantycakes wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue Loving the guide, certainly needed it! It was linked to me in a thread where I cried about the woes of my broken Bosmer Stamblade who is still currently being fixed. I just wanted to clarify on the optimal gear setup and enchants/glyphs/traits before I invest and make a mess.

According to the first page, optimal Stamblade setup is:

5 piece (chest/gloves/belt/boots/legs since we're also using Nerien'eth?) Nightmother's with Divines. Stamina enchants? (I've had to use Health since mine was >20k, still trying to find a way to balance damage and health.)
2 piece Nerien'eth (head and shoulders, right?) with Divines. Again, which enchants?
3 piece Agility jewelry with Robust traits. What enchant? I went with weapon damage.
2 piece Leki's weapons - daggers with precise trait. I used weapon damage enchants, is this okay?

*I'm running 2 piece Hunding's Rage until I can get Nerien'eth. Would you recommend something else? And I'm using Healthy Endurance rings until I can get Robust Agility. Would I be better off switching those for Leki's, too?

Sorry for so many questions, I've just realized that I have lost all ability to make a successful stamina rogue-ish character between Skyrim and the launch of ESO.

I'm not Gilliam, and not an expert, but from what I've experienced you don't need the 20k outside of cyrodiil... I've gotten down to 16.8k hp (with food buff) currently (low cp) and I notice I'm dying far less often once learning mechanics. Most things will one shot me if I mess up anyways, so the extra stamina feels more worth while. But in cyrodiil I have 22k hp due to battle spirit. And I believe @Gilliam also runs sub 20k outside of cyrodiil also.

EDIT: yes, he runs with 17.7k hp which he probably has via CP (don't quote me...)

On a side note... Poison vs Disease enchantment... Still Poison even though we're getting Disease damage? Or would that be more of a reason to get Poison?

Gilliamtherogue

bantycakes wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue Loving the guide, certainly needed it! It was linked to me in a thread where I cried about the woes of my broken Bosmer Stamblade who is still currently being fixed. I just wanted to clarify on the optimal gear setup and enchants/glyphs/traits before I invest and make a mess.

According to the first page, optimal Stamblade setup is:

5 piece (chest/gloves/belt/boots/legs since we're also using Nerien'eth?) Nightmother's with Divines. Stamina enchants? (I've had to use Health since mine was >20k, still trying to find a way to balance damage and health.)
2 piece Nerien'eth (head and shoulders, right?) with Divines. Again, which enchants?
3 piece Agility jewelry with Robust traits. What enchant? I went with weapon damage.
2 piece Leki's weapons - daggers with precise trait. I used weapon damage enchants, is this okay?

*I'm running 2 piece Hunding's Rage until I can get Nerien'eth. Would you recommend something else? And I'm using Healthy Endurance rings until I can get Robust Agility. Would I be better off switching those for Leki's, too?

Sorry for so many questions, I've just realized that I have lost all ability to make a successful stamina rogue-ish character between Skyrim and the launch of ESO.

5 Nightmother's in the slots you mentioned, all Divines, all Max Stamina enchants.
2 Piece Nerieneth, only comes in Helm/Shoulder, both Divines, both Max Stam chants.
3 Robust Agility rings, I use x3 Weapon damage enchants for maximum DPS, but if you don't run with Templars, have low CP, or are uncomfortable with resource management you can run Cost Reduction (Regen is only good if you are planning on dodge rolling a lot, so vMA/PvP)
2 piece Leki's (If solo or the groups you play with do not run Aggressive Warhorn), both precise daggers, 1 increase weapon damage enchant, 1 poison enchant OR Crusher enchant for solo/if no one else runs it (this is a popular tank enchant, so I do not run it)

If you are unable to get Nerieneth, just run 4 piece Hundings instead of Leki, it's cheaper and more available since it's crafted.

If you cannot afford Robust Agility then yes, I suggest getting Robust Endurance or Healthy Agility. Robust Agi necklaces are quite cheap, so you should at least be able to get one of those and run 2 healthy until you can afford Agility. Robust Leki is also an option, in which you could run 4 piece Leki instead of Hunding's all together, but I wouldn't advise it unless you already have pieces laying around.

Gilliamtherogue

Turbatus wrote: »

bantycakes wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue Loving the guide, certainly needed it! It was linked to me in a thread where I cried about the woes of my broken Bosmer Stamblade who is still currently being fixed. I just wanted to clarify on the optimal gear setup and enchants/glyphs/traits before I invest and make a mess.

According to the first page, optimal Stamblade setup is:

5 piece (chest/gloves/belt/boots/legs since we're also using Nerien'eth?) Nightmother's with Divines. Stamina enchants? (I've had to use Health since mine was >20k, still trying to find a way to balance damage and health.)
2 piece Nerien'eth (head and shoulders, right?) with Divines. Again, which enchants?
3 piece Agility jewelry with Robust traits. What enchant? I went with weapon damage.
2 piece Leki's weapons - daggers with precise trait. I used weapon damage enchants, is this okay?

*I'm running 2 piece Hunding's Rage until I can get Nerien'eth. Would you recommend something else? And I'm using Healthy Endurance rings until I can get Robust Agility. Would I be better off switching those for Leki's, too?

Sorry for so many questions, I've just realized that I have lost all ability to make a successful stamina rogue-ish character between Skyrim and the launch of ESO.

I'm not Gilliam, and not an expert, but from what I've experienced you don't need the 20k outside of cyrodiil... I've gotten down to 16.8k hp (with food buff) currently (low cp) and I notice I'm dying far less often once learning mechanics. Most things will one shot me if I mess up anyways, so the extra stamina feels more worth while. But in cyrodiil I have 22k hp due to battle spirit. And I believe @Gilliam also runs sub 20k outside of cyrodiil also.

EDIT: yes, he runs with 17.7k hp which he probably has via CP (don't quote me...)

On a side note... Poison vs Disease enchantment... Still Poison even though we're getting Disease damage? Or would that be more of a reason to get Poison?

Poison and Disease are almost identical in terms of what they do, all targets that are weak to Poison are weak to Disease as well, and vice versa. Poison has a chance to reduce Health Recovery and adds a long lasting DoT effect on top of its initial hit, while Disease has a chance to reduce Healing Received on the target on top of the initial hit. Both of the initial hits will hit for the same damage, but Poison does more DPS, as it has an additional damage source on the 2ndary, while Disease does not.

And yes, all of my health comes from Nerieneth, Max Health+Stam food, passives, and being at 501 CP cap.

bantycakes

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

5 Nightmother's in the slots you mentioned, all Divines, all Max Stamina enchants.
2 Piece Nerieneth, only comes in Helm/Shoulder, both Divines, both Max Stam chants.
3 Robust Agility rings, I use x3 Weapon damage enchants for maximum DPS, but if you don't run with Templars, have low CP, or are uncomfortable with resource management you can run Cost Reduction (Regen is only good if you are planning on dodge rolling a lot, so vMA/PvP)
2 piece Leki's (If solo or the groups you play with do not run Aggressive Warhorn), both precise daggers, 1 increase weapon damage enchant, 1 poison enchant OR Crusher enchant for solo/if no one else runs it (this is a popular tank enchant, so I do not run it)

If you are unable to get Nerieneth, just run 4 piece Hundings instead of Leki, it's cheaper and more available since it's crafted.

If you cannot afford Robust Agility then yes, I suggest getting Robust Endurance or Healthy Agility. Robust Agi necklaces are quite cheap, so you should at least be able to get one of those and run 2 healthy until you can afford Agility. Robust Leki is also an option, in which you could run 4 piece Leki instead of Hunding's all together, but I wouldn't advise it unless you already have pieces laying around.

Thanks for the quick reply and the clarification! I'll definitely see about running 4 piece Hunding's until I can get Nerein'eth. I'm at ~240 CP right now so I'm rushing to farm those points and hit the cap because it's really hurting my stats.

Again, awesome build and guide, thanks for the work you've done with this!

Khamira

Is there any mathematical/scientific method of calculating how much stamina recovery I'll need, or everyone out there is just using "Ugh no stamina, need moar regen!" technique? Because depending on situation sometimes my stamina is ok, but there are moments when I start to panic or need to kite things and then I'm dry like Sahara...

Also what about health regen? I know that's healers job to keep me alive but health regeneration works kinda like a healing dot, sooo... I'm not sugesting specing on that but additional buffs to it won't hurt, right? Or are they totaly useless?

Also I have a question about NMG proc - does it procs on crit and starts countdown from that point (cooldown) or whenever I crit the debuff refreshes? I mean can it be 100%+ up or does it have gaps when I need to crit target again?

Just curious about set mechanic

Turbatus

Khamira wrote: »

Is there any mathematical/scientific method of calculating how much stamina recovery I'll need, or everyone out there is just using "Ugh no stamina, need moar regen!" technique? Because depending on situation sometimes my stamina is ok, but there are moments when I start to panic or need to kite things and then I'm dry like Sahara...

Also what about health regen? I know that's healers job to keep me alive but health regeneration works kinda like a healing dot, sooo... I'm not sugesting specing on that but additional buffs to it won't hurt, right? Or are they totaly useless?

Also I have a question about NMG proc - does it procs on crit and starts countdown from that point (cooldown) or whenever I crit the debuff refreshes? I mean can it be 100%+ up or does it have gaps when I need to crit target again?

Just curious about set mechanic

About NMG... you crit so often the proc is always up.

About the regen, I'm no pro, but if I'm having sustain issues in something like a pug pledge, I just swap my agility for my endurance set(which also gives some health), and bloodspawn shoulders. In trials you should be organized enough that stamina isn't really an issue from the little I've seen.

Gilliamtherogue

Khamira wrote: »

Is there any mathematical/scientific method of calculating how much stamina recovery I'll need, or everyone out there is just using "Ugh no stamina, need moar regen!" technique? Because depending on situation sometimes my stamina is ok, but there are moments when I start to panic or need to kite things and then I'm dry like Sahara...

Also what about health regen? I know that's healers job to keep me alive but health regeneration works kinda like a healing dot, sooo... I'm not sugesting specing on that but additional buffs to it won't hurt, right? Or are they totaly useless?

Also I have a question about NMG proc - does it procs on crit and starts countdown from that point (cooldown) or whenever I crit the debuff refreshes? I mean can it be 100%+ up or does it have gaps when I need to crit target again?

Just curious about set mechanic

There isn't any way to calculate how much stamina regen or cost reduction you need, since there will always be times that you can be resource exhausted even with high resource regeneration, but in usual content simply being at CP cap with the allocation I have between regen+cost reduct will get you where you should be. When running with pugs or groups that don't have a templar/aren't as fast you may want to keep a side set of jewelry (I use my vMA jewelry which is 3pc Endurance with 2 regen enchants and 1 wep damage) to pop on.

Health regen is a fluff stat, it has no real value. If you need to run extra healing then put on Vigor, there is no way to gain health regen without sacrificing something actually useful. Health regen is not a dependable source of healing, as it happens in two second increments and is extremely low without speccing.

NMG has no ICD, and will refresh the debuff whenever you crit, and even applies on the first critical hit that lands, as I mentioned in the set breakdown. As long as you crit enough, it has a 100% uptime, so failing to keep up DoTs if you swap targets will cause in the debuff to fade.

Caffeinated_Dani

I don't have caltrops any other skill to use in its place?

Daveheart

@Caffeinated_Dani I'm sure Gill with have his own answer, but I'd personally just use it as a flex spot. In the next update the snare and delayed damage from the Undaunted webs skill, tangling webs or whatever, could have its uses; it seems to have a relatively high tooltip and provides another high damage synergy for teammates. I'm sure reaper's mark could also have plenty of use in certain engagements; the armor pen isn't necessary, but the major berserk upon killing a mob could help somethings. You could also potentially swap rearming trap to the bow bar and keep rending slashes available for single target fights for minimizing how often you need to swap loadouts.

In the end, I personally recommend just going out to earn enough AP to earn caltrops for yourself. With the significantly reduced AP requirements for the alliance skill line, it's not too tough. Plus you'll also earn vigor which is really important for any solo instances.