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Should Vet Maelstrom have some type of SAVE function?
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Stanko✭✭✭Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress"I cleared Vet Maelstrom for the first time today. For arenas 4-9, I had to fail for an entire evening and then re-do all of the arenas again so that I could finally beat the arena that I was trying to learn. Arena 9 was especially bad. I failed 3 evenings and finally beat the last boss on my 4th try (about 600 deaths total).
Because the learning curve for Vet Maelstrom is so severe (especially for a non-dps class or a player used to playing as a healer/tank), I feel that people should be able to save progress and go back to the arena that they are trying to learn.
As a separate issue, I don't feel that players should be cheated out of a score because they had to take a break for some reason. It's like having a contest to see who has the largest bladder (and can avoid going to the bathroom for the longest period of time....).
I intentionally waited until my first Vet Maelstrom completion before creating this poll because I wanted to avoid being labeled as someone who needs to "learn to play". It took me a month to learn it, as detailed in my previous post quoted above.
I think that anyone who can clear Vet Maelstrom is a "gifted" player. I also feel that there are a lot of other players who have not had the opportunity to show that they are "gifted" because of time constraints. Denying those other players the opportunity to show that they are "gifted" by supporting the inability to save progress, well now- that's "elitist".
What is your opinion on the above posts (and my own opinion), stating time constraints are a non issue?
I simply disagree that "time constraints are a non-issue". Dymence and some others that have posted are very "gifted" players. They were able to learn the fights within a reasonable time-frame. Also, Dymence pointed out that he made some major time commitments when he was initially learning the fights.
I have observed in both PVP and PVE that there is a wide range of skill levels (and champion points...). Some people will take longer to learn the fights in Vet Maelstrom. In my case, it took about a month because I have rarely played as a DPS and I needed to make some major adjustments for certain fights. So, there's two issues here: 1) There's a wide variance in skill. 2) There's a wide variance in available time that players have.
I don't feel that the wide variance in available time should determine whether or not a player can prove that they are "gifted" (skilled). We should have a SAVE function for Vet Maelstrom. Period.Stanko: Ebonheart Pact, CP 3600, Templar, Former Emperor on Azura's, Arena Gladiator, Flawless Conqueror, Spirit Slayer, Grand Overlord, Paragon, and of course Merciless.5 -
Hiero_Glyph✭✭✭✭✭Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress
I love how ignorant this post is. Calling someone elitest, i love how many people throw that word around actually, then you say that he sucks in PvP and you killed him, like you were so insulted by his post you threw around attacks like that, it's great.Any person in the game can clear vMaelstrom within 1 hour. +-10 minutes.
If you can't then it's an L2P issue.
No save function needed.
Elitism at its best, the game is about enjoyment for many types of players, not a certain calibre of player dictating what is what to everyone else.
Just remembered killing you in PvP a few times, no offence, but you suck in PvP:}
Hows the high horse now?
Then again he is right Maelstrom is totally an L2P issue, its tough to beat it but each time it gets easier and easier. You have to work for it, not get it handed to you.
@code65536 They said something along the lines of Veteran being the main challenge and they didnt want people to get the weapons so easily, I don't have the exact quote but normal is for just doing the content and veteran is for the challenge and I dont think they are going to change their minds on that. (just paraphrasing)
Elitist*
And I was making the point that people like him do not govern how this game works, and the PvP part was put in deliberately to show him when he reads it and feels possibly bad about it, the lesson that many of the player base who reads his post will not like what he has to say.
Mirror effect.
So clearly you did not get it.
Many actually have lives outside of the game and cannot spend hours solid on the game, what about them? they want to do the content and they should and could, so why not be able to save progress instead of going through the same grind all over again.
Many again do not care about leaderboards, they want the title,. so your lot can have your precious leaderboards etc and not feel threated by da casuals:} so everyone is happy.
It's sad that people like you exist in this game, I'm sure @Xantaria is going to enjoy the taste of your tears
Stop being so self centered, just because something isn't going your way doesn't mean the rest of the people should suffer. Take the time to learn it and progress, it's a game after all not like the content is going anywhere. Just because you don't like leaderboards doesn't mean everyone hates them too.
You're basically asking everything to be handed for you with no work towards it. Maybe put the effort for the title like all the rest of the people have, it isn't meant to be easy to get you know?
@Nifty2g
I did intend to harvest some salt with my post and I had a huge grin on my face when reading what he wrote. :')
Awwww elitists banding together, so sweet, feel threatened much?, lol, just lol
Chillout man (kid?), Nothing to be mad about. It's funny though that you are literally getting angry about something people write in a random game forum. Maybe it's you taking gaming too serious and not me. In other words: Respect my opinion, I respect yours aswell. I did not attack you for being a casual or whatever person you are whereas you immediatly started bashing and insulting me for being an 'eletist jerk' according to your opinion. Enough tears harvested, gotta get back to work.
Actually, you branded everyoen with the l2p bracket, and implying all were casuals and noobs for not doing vma in a hour or so, that is what I took objection too, and have others in this thread, maybe you did not realise you were being a *** but you were.
So you basically attacked every single player who either cannot do it or do it in the time you stipulated, its all there in what you wrote.
Hardly respectful of the must vaster playerbase, and I put in my comments to show you exactly how some others will feel.
And your mate well, its obvious he loves you, might be a thing there, something got under his skin.....
Elitists only respect other elitists, never anyone else, IMO
Edit, who said I was angry, I just do not like seeing people being put down so people can lord it all over them, so much you and your "friend" have wrong
Respect is only given when the respect is mutual. Your disrespect towards nifty and xantaria is so blatant it just makes me laugh at how self-righteous you think you are.
Going on about 'people with normal lives'. What is normal? Are you part of those teenagers that run around saying 'LOL HE PLAYS GAMES WHAT A NO LIFER'?
Time is essential in what gates content to be difficult. If someone went through the hard work to learn the stages and eventually complete it with enough practice in a reasonable time window, he should be awarded with the title etc etc. If then a save function gets implemented and people just start smashing their heads against the metaphorical wall until they complete it after weeks, not having actually progressed at getting better at the previous stages. This makes the achievement entirely void because the effort put into it is then 'less skillful'.
With enough chance and luck you'll pass any stage after spending enough time on it, which is why the save function would simplify the content too much.
Well to be fair, Xantaria started it with the arrogant post he put about everyone l2p and I posted to him, and then nifty started on me, so it was begun there.
And for the record, what you think of me means nothing, you do not get it.
I have put many times about the ability to save progress due to real life constraints, not lack of skill or learning etc
Try reading
Thanks
Real life constraints are not a valid excuse.
If you actively practice when you have the time, the stages will get easier over time. Let's say, hypothetically speaking, you died 20 times in stage 1 the first time you tried it. Then you played more often and started to clear it with 10 deaths, 5 deaths, and finally 0 deaths. The better you get at each individual stage cuts off a lot of time in the overall picture.
It does not matter if you have real life constraints. Everybody does to some extent. As you learn the stages properly, your runs will become a lot faster. Maybe the first time you took an hour to get to stage 4. After enough repition of stage 1-4 you will end up coming at stage 4 in maybe 15 minutes. You will then reliably be able to get to stage 5 fast enough to start practicing there, and finally will be able to clear the arena in roughly an hour.
Practice makes perfect. Or do you expect me to believe you're such a busy-body that you get caught up in 'real-life constraints' in hourly intervals?
Lol I see what you are saying, but real life constaints is not a valid excuse? ok so my pet budgie should just die, or my dog should just defecate all over the house, or any one of a million things, the kids should just starve, etc etc.
As myself and others have said, repeatedly, it is not a case of practise, or lack of skill or anything, you are actually meant to take breaks from the PC, although we do not all do it hehehe, but health wise ya are meant too, plus a drink or a sammich or soemthing, so according to you I should not do any of these things?
It is just a save , will the world stop revolving?, will the sun refuse to shine because of such a horrendous option?
And for the record, I do not expect nor care if you believe anything, so not sure why you are saying I expect you to do anything.
You got your opinion, I got mine.
If you're not willnig to invest the time without longer than 15 minutes breaks then you do not deserve the achievement of completing it. You're not willing to dedicate your resources to it ---> sorry.
Dymence pointed out pretty much exactly why this would simplify the challenge.
OMG , you just do not get it do you, despite me and a million other people in the thread trying to tell you and your mates what we meant.
Real life things pop up, if you feel that a game is more important than real life, or your weekly gold rewards are more important, then on you go, some of us do not see things that way.
I never once said that I did not want to dedicate resources to it, I will get round to it after I am done my other operations.
I said real life things come up, and they must take precedence, not a game or a achievement, oh slap slap, longer than 15 minutes, bad terrible noob players do not want to put the time in, we still have to put the time in when we get back, learn the mechanics etc.
As @Nifty2g and @Xantaria have both pointed out already, it is you who does not get it.
Don't start vMSA runs if you expect something to pop up soon (pets, kids). Start with it when you have the time to do it, and it doesn't even need to be more than an hour. Don't go into vMSA expecting to clear it. Go in with the intention to practice.
Back on PTS when it first came out, it was literally 3-4 times harder than it is now with the damage mitigation & ability cost bugs that were around at that time. Regardless, I spent a lot of time just practicing the arena. I remember being stuck at stage 4, stage 5, stage 6, etc. but the amount of times I repeated said arenas I got better and cleared it more reliable every time. This is a proper learning process. A save function would cut this out entirely.
Just start a run when you know nothing will pop up soon, and if something happens to pop up anyways, that's unfortunate but that happens. That's life. I've done so many runs on PTS when it first came out, and sometimes I just had to stop because I had to do something else. Simply play for as long as you can and stop when you have to stop. Then you start over again with the experience from every run added and you get better and better.
My template character on the PTS got the achievement to kill 1000 dwarven constructs (with the only dwarven stages being stage 2 and 4) and got leveled from vr14 to vr16. That's how many times I repeated the content. And repetition makes for improvement. A healthy learning process.
You obviously don't have kids. I only pay at night when I expect them to sleep for 7-10 hours and they get up all the time from nightmares, a tummy ache, a new tooth, having to go to the bathroom, etc. Some of these things are quickly resolved but others require me to change sheets, stay up with them for a while, give them medicine, etc. Even if I have 4 hours to play that can quickly be reduced to nothing. The point being that my skill as a player has nothing to do with my skill as a parent.
It's not like you are a great ESO player just because you don't get interrupted while playing. You are a great ESO player because you have invested the time to reach a specific level of play. Is another player going to threaten your leaderboard score just because they have to put their kid back to bed and they want you to read them a story and stay in bed with them until they fall asleep? Absolutely not. Your skill as a player is only challeneged by a player that understands the game as well as you do. So who cares if they have to finish their arena run during another session? Honestly, what advantage does a player have from taking multiple sessions to complete an arena run?9 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, Vet Maelstrom should be reset if you leave for more than 15 min (as is currently the case).Hiero_Glyph wrote: »
I love how ignorant this post is. Calling someone elitest, i love how many people throw that word around actually, then you say that he sucks in PvP and you killed him, like you were so insulted by his post you threw around attacks like that, it's great.Any person in the game can clear vMaelstrom within 1 hour. +-10 minutes.
If you can't then it's an L2P issue.
No save function needed.
Elitism at its best, the game is about enjoyment for many types of players, not a certain calibre of player dictating what is what to everyone else.
Just remembered killing you in PvP a few times, no offence, but you suck in PvP:}
Hows the high horse now?
Then again he is right Maelstrom is totally an L2P issue, its tough to beat it but each time it gets easier and easier. You have to work for it, not get it handed to you.
@code65536 They said something along the lines of Veteran being the main challenge and they didnt want people to get the weapons so easily, I don't have the exact quote but normal is for just doing the content and veteran is for the challenge and I dont think they are going to change their minds on that. (just paraphrasing)
Elitist*
And I was making the point that people like him do not govern how this game works, and the PvP part was put in deliberately to show him when he reads it and feels possibly bad about it, the lesson that many of the player base who reads his post will not like what he has to say.
Mirror effect.
So clearly you did not get it.
Many actually have lives outside of the game and cannot spend hours solid on the game, what about them? they want to do the content and they should and could, so why not be able to save progress instead of going through the same grind all over again.
Many again do not care about leaderboards, they want the title,. so your lot can have your precious leaderboards etc and not feel threated by da casuals:} so everyone is happy.
It's sad that people like you exist in this game, I'm sure @Xantaria is going to enjoy the taste of your tears
Stop being so self centered, just because something isn't going your way doesn't mean the rest of the people should suffer. Take the time to learn it and progress, it's a game after all not like the content is going anywhere. Just because you don't like leaderboards doesn't mean everyone hates them too.
You're basically asking everything to be handed for you with no work towards it. Maybe put the effort for the title like all the rest of the people have, it isn't meant to be easy to get you know?
@Nifty2g
I did intend to harvest some salt with my post and I had a huge grin on my face when reading what he wrote. :')
Awwww elitists banding together, so sweet, feel threatened much?, lol, just lol
Chillout man (kid?), Nothing to be mad about. It's funny though that you are literally getting angry about something people write in a random game forum. Maybe it's you taking gaming too serious and not me. In other words: Respect my opinion, I respect yours aswell. I did not attack you for being a casual or whatever person you are whereas you immediatly started bashing and insulting me for being an 'eletist jerk' according to your opinion. Enough tears harvested, gotta get back to work.
Actually, you branded everyoen with the l2p bracket, and implying all were casuals and noobs for not doing vma in a hour or so, that is what I took objection too, and have others in this thread, maybe you did not realise you were being a *** but you were.
So you basically attacked every single player who either cannot do it or do it in the time you stipulated, its all there in what you wrote.
Hardly respectful of the must vaster playerbase, and I put in my comments to show you exactly how some others will feel.
And your mate well, its obvious he loves you, might be a thing there, something got under his skin.....
Elitists only respect other elitists, never anyone else, IMO
Edit, who said I was angry, I just do not like seeing people being put down so people can lord it all over them, so much you and your "friend" have wrong
Respect is only given when the respect is mutual. Your disrespect towards nifty and xantaria is so blatant it just makes me laugh at how self-righteous you think you are.
Going on about 'people with normal lives'. What is normal? Are you part of those teenagers that run around saying 'LOL HE PLAYS GAMES WHAT A NO LIFER'?
Time is essential in what gates content to be difficult. If someone went through the hard work to learn the stages and eventually complete it with enough practice in a reasonable time window, he should be awarded with the title etc etc. If then a save function gets implemented and people just start smashing their heads against the metaphorical wall until they complete it after weeks, not having actually progressed at getting better at the previous stages. This makes the achievement entirely void because the effort put into it is then 'less skillful'.
With enough chance and luck you'll pass any stage after spending enough time on it, which is why the save function would simplify the content too much.
Well to be fair, Xantaria started it with the arrogant post he put about everyone l2p and I posted to him, and then nifty started on me, so it was begun there.
And for the record, what you think of me means nothing, you do not get it.
I have put many times about the ability to save progress due to real life constraints, not lack of skill or learning etc
Try reading
Thanks
Real life constraints are not a valid excuse.
If you actively practice when you have the time, the stages will get easier over time. Let's say, hypothetically speaking, you died 20 times in stage 1 the first time you tried it. Then you played more often and started to clear it with 10 deaths, 5 deaths, and finally 0 deaths. The better you get at each individual stage cuts off a lot of time in the overall picture.
It does not matter if you have real life constraints. Everybody does to some extent. As you learn the stages properly, your runs will become a lot faster. Maybe the first time you took an hour to get to stage 4. After enough repition of stage 1-4 you will end up coming at stage 4 in maybe 15 minutes. You will then reliably be able to get to stage 5 fast enough to start practicing there, and finally will be able to clear the arena in roughly an hour.
Practice makes perfect. Or do you expect me to believe you're such a busy-body that you get caught up in 'real-life constraints' in hourly intervals?
Lol I see what you are saying, but real life constaints is not a valid excuse? ok so my pet budgie should just die, or my dog should just defecate all over the house, or any one of a million things, the kids should just starve, etc etc.
As myself and others have said, repeatedly, it is not a case of practise, or lack of skill or anything, you are actually meant to take breaks from the PC, although we do not all do it hehehe, but health wise ya are meant too, plus a drink or a sammich or soemthing, so according to you I should not do any of these things?
It is just a save , will the world stop revolving?, will the sun refuse to shine because of such a horrendous option?
And for the record, I do not expect nor care if you believe anything, so not sure why you are saying I expect you to do anything.
You got your opinion, I got mine.
If you're not willnig to invest the time without longer than 15 minutes breaks then you do not deserve the achievement of completing it. You're not willing to dedicate your resources to it ---> sorry.
Dymence pointed out pretty much exactly why this would simplify the challenge.
OMG , you just do not get it do you, despite me and a million other people in the thread trying to tell you and your mates what we meant.
Real life things pop up, if you feel that a game is more important than real life, or your weekly gold rewards are more important, then on you go, some of us do not see things that way.
I never once said that I did not want to dedicate resources to it, I will get round to it after I am done my other operations.
I said real life things come up, and they must take precedence, not a game or a achievement, oh slap slap, longer than 15 minutes, bad terrible noob players do not want to put the time in, we still have to put the time in when we get back, learn the mechanics etc.
As @Nifty2g and @Xantaria have both pointed out already, it is you who does not get it.
Don't start vMSA runs if you expect something to pop up soon (pets, kids). Start with it when you have the time to do it, and it doesn't even need to be more than an hour. Don't go into vMSA expecting to clear it. Go in with the intention to practice.
Back on PTS when it first came out, it was literally 3-4 times harder than it is now with the damage mitigation & ability cost bugs that were around at that time. Regardless, I spent a lot of time just practicing the arena. I remember being stuck at stage 4, stage 5, stage 6, etc. but the amount of times I repeated said arenas I got better and cleared it more reliable every time. This is a proper learning process. A save function would cut this out entirely.
Just start a run when you know nothing will pop up soon, and if something happens to pop up anyways, that's unfortunate but that happens. That's life. I've done so many runs on PTS when it first came out, and sometimes I just had to stop because I had to do something else. Simply play for as long as you can and stop when you have to stop. Then you start over again with the experience from every run added and you get better and better.
My template character on the PTS got the achievement to kill 1000 dwarven constructs (with the only dwarven stages being stage 2 and 4) and got leveled from vr14 to vr16. That's how many times I repeated the content. And repetition makes for improvement. A healthy learning process.
You obviously don't have kids. I only pay at night when I expect them to sleep for 7-10 hours and they get up all the time from nightmares, a tummy ache, a new tooth, having to go to the bathroom, etc. Some of these things are quickly resolved but others require me to change sheets, stay up with them for a while, give them medicine, etc. Even if I have 4 hours to play that can quickly be reduced to nothing. The point being that my skill as a player has nothing to do with my skill as a parent.
No, I don't have kids.
That said, these should be rare incidents (especially the medicine part). I won't believe - from anyone - that they can't play for one hour straight without interruptions, ever.
And that is all you need. One hour, practice, and apply experience gained on following runs. Being able to clear it within a reasonable amount of time is part of the challenge and forces the playerbase to actually learn and improve.
A save function would entirely negate the learning aspect. Many of you say you don't understand. I for one don't understand that you don't understand. If you spend 2 hours per stage, desperately trying to progress and manage to pass by sheer luck and then save your progress to continue another day, you didn't learn anything. And that won't make your next runs go any easier, either.0 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Since the leader board ranks of VMSA are "Time Based" its only reasonable for ZOS to put a save feature in. This save feature in no way effects leader board rankings, folks who can clear in 1 sitting will always rank higher, it changes nothing but allows players to complete at their own discretion or pace which is the point of solo instances to begin with, those that can complete faster have the leader board as incentive.
folks need to stop trying to dictate such petty terms to a solo instance....
Adding in a save feature that in no way allows them to rank higher on the leader board then you is a non-issue.
Adding in a save feature that in no way shape or form effects your ability to play or infringes on your ability to rank on the leader boards shroud be done.
This is my 1st (and probably last) MMO, but there is one thing MMO gamer's need to understand:
"they have no right to dictate terms, infringe, or try and force their way of playing a game on someone else"
Fact: Vet MA leader board rankings are determined by time.
Fact: a Save feature does not and would not allow anyone to post a faster time then someone who don't use the save feature.
To call a spade a spade, it makes you look ridiculous fighting against a feature that in no way directly effects you. What it does look like to everyone else is you trying to force your idea and way of doing something on everyone else...this is a common theme, be it politics, religion, product reviews, and now even games....
99% of all fights be it wars, arguments, etc are all started by one side trying to dictate and force a certain way or mindset on everyone else....The USA and its Constitution was founded on the following premise:
"As long as your not hurting, impacting, or interfering with someone else freedoms, your free to pursue that"
Your rights end where someone else rights begin...quite frankly..you have no right to try and dictate there be no save feature, as long as that save feature does not allow someone to score higher then you on the score board, does not interfere in anyway with your ability to play the game, its a reasonable request I would expect ZOS to implement.
ZOS its a reasonable request, do the right thing and put it in...the timer starts when you start the arena and ends when you turn in the quest, even if you log off as long as the quest is active the time keeps ticking, very easy to put in the game, you already do it with researching weapon and armor traits. Its not an unreasonable request.
FYI: I think the solo area is dumb and i don't even like it. I completed it once and have no intentions of ever doing it again because all the gear drops and staffs are IMO useless and crafted gear is better and there is simply no reason for me to bother with it..I have no horse in this race, im lukcy to log once a week now if that, so im in no way biased...ZOS..put the save feature in, its a reasonable request from reasonable customers, the majority of which probably pay you sub fees and buy your crown store stuff
Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak4 -
Sharkano✭✭✭✭MMO's have been sued for causing people to play without sleep, etc. Then this company makes an instance you can't save, that gives you the top weapons, and encourages 10+ hour consecutive play to try and get it done? All I can say is LOL.0
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code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progressHonestly, I don't understand why this is even that controversial at all.
Leaderboards
The simple solution is to keep the timer running. So if you step aside for 8 hours, your run time will be 8 hours longer. That should easily take people who pause out of the running for the leaderboards.
Progression, Forced Restart
@Dymence and @Nifty2g have argued that forcing people to restart forces them to practice the earlier rounds and "progress" in skill and that people shouldn't just keep banging against the rounds until they get through. While I don't entirely agree with this, I do see the merit of a "Game Over, Please Restart" mechanism.
But why on earth should this mechanism be tied to someone's schedule? How in bloody blazes does that even make sense?
If you want such a "Game Over" mechanism, the logical way to do it is via the lives. Look back at progression in vDSA: You had 100 lives for 4 players, so you can wipe just 25 times before you are forced to restart the entire arena. in vMA, you have 500 lives for just 1 player--essentially, this allows anyone who has the time (or a heavy object that they can place on their keyboard to prevent timing out) to "just start smashing their heads against the metaphorical wall until they complete it" (to quote @Dymence ). And that's exactly what is already happening: a number of people who have cleared vMA have reported that their first run took many, many hours and over 100 deaths.
All that this current no-save system does is punish players who don't have the luxury of large, contiguous blocks of time. Nothing more. It doesn't have any effect on who's at the top of the leaderboard, it doesn't really do a good job of forcing progression through restarts, and it certainly is not a measure of a player's skills and abilities.
So add a save system. Keep the clock running. And reduce the number of lives from a ridiculous 500 to something more reasonable. There. Problem solved. Now stop this childish pissing contest.Edited by code65536 on 3 December 2015 16:52Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
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- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorPC/Console Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Group Buff PanelsOther Add-Ons: Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information7 -
ragespell✭✭✭Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progressHiero_Glyph wrote: »
I love how ignorant this post is. Calling someone elitest, i love how many people throw that word around actually, then you say that he sucks in PvP and you killed him, like you were so insulted by his post you threw around attacks like that, it's great.Any person in the game can clear vMaelstrom within 1 hour. +-10 minutes.
If you can't then it's an L2P issue.
No save function needed.
Elitism at its best, the game is about enjoyment for many types of players, not a certain calibre of player dictating what is what to everyone else.
Just remembered killing you in PvP a few times, no offence, but you suck in PvP:}
Hows the high horse now?
Then again he is right Maelstrom is totally an L2P issue, its tough to beat it but each time it gets easier and easier. You have to work for it, not get it handed to you.
@code65536 They said something along the lines of Veteran being the main challenge and they didnt want people to get the weapons so easily, I don't have the exact quote but normal is for just doing the content and veteran is for the challenge and I dont think they are going to change their minds on that. (just paraphrasing)
Elitist*
And I was making the point that people like him do not govern how this game works, and the PvP part was put in deliberately to show him when he reads it and feels possibly bad about it, the lesson that many of the player base who reads his post will not like what he has to say.
Mirror effect.
So clearly you did not get it.
Many actually have lives outside of the game and cannot spend hours solid on the game, what about them? they want to do the content and they should and could, so why not be able to save progress instead of going through the same grind all over again.
Many again do not care about leaderboards, they want the title,. so your lot can have your precious leaderboards etc and not feel threated by da casuals:} so everyone is happy.
It's sad that people like you exist in this game, I'm sure @Xantaria is going to enjoy the taste of your tears
Stop being so self centered, just because something isn't going your way doesn't mean the rest of the people should suffer. Take the time to learn it and progress, it's a game after all not like the content is going anywhere. Just because you don't like leaderboards doesn't mean everyone hates them too.
You're basically asking everything to be handed for you with no work towards it. Maybe put the effort for the title like all the rest of the people have, it isn't meant to be easy to get you know?
@Nifty2g
I did intend to harvest some salt with my post and I had a huge grin on my face when reading what he wrote. :')
Awwww elitists banding together, so sweet, feel threatened much?, lol, just lol
Chillout man (kid?), Nothing to be mad about. It's funny though that you are literally getting angry about something people write in a random game forum. Maybe it's you taking gaming too serious and not me. In other words: Respect my opinion, I respect yours aswell. I did not attack you for being a casual or whatever person you are whereas you immediatly started bashing and insulting me for being an 'eletist jerk' according to your opinion. Enough tears harvested, gotta get back to work.
Actually, you branded everyoen with the l2p bracket, and implying all were casuals and noobs for not doing vma in a hour or so, that is what I took objection too, and have others in this thread, maybe you did not realise you were being a *** but you were.
So you basically attacked every single player who either cannot do it or do it in the time you stipulated, its all there in what you wrote.
Hardly respectful of the must vaster playerbase, and I put in my comments to show you exactly how some others will feel.
And your mate well, its obvious he loves you, might be a thing there, something got under his skin.....
Elitists only respect other elitists, never anyone else, IMO
Edit, who said I was angry, I just do not like seeing people being put down so people can lord it all over them, so much you and your "friend" have wrong
Respect is only given when the respect is mutual. Your disrespect towards nifty and xantaria is so blatant it just makes me laugh at how self-righteous you think you are.
Going on about 'people with normal lives'. What is normal? Are you part of those teenagers that run around saying 'LOL HE PLAYS GAMES WHAT A NO LIFER'?
Time is essential in what gates content to be difficult. If someone went through the hard work to learn the stages and eventually complete it with enough practice in a reasonable time window, he should be awarded with the title etc etc. If then a save function gets implemented and people just start smashing their heads against the metaphorical wall until they complete it after weeks, not having actually progressed at getting better at the previous stages. This makes the achievement entirely void because the effort put into it is then 'less skillful'.
With enough chance and luck you'll pass any stage after spending enough time on it, which is why the save function would simplify the content too much.
Well to be fair, Xantaria started it with the arrogant post he put about everyone l2p and I posted to him, and then nifty started on me, so it was begun there.
And for the record, what you think of me means nothing, you do not get it.
I have put many times about the ability to save progress due to real life constraints, not lack of skill or learning etc
Try reading
Thanks
Real life constraints are not a valid excuse.
If you actively practice when you have the time, the stages will get easier over time. Let's say, hypothetically speaking, you died 20 times in stage 1 the first time you tried it. Then you played more often and started to clear it with 10 deaths, 5 deaths, and finally 0 deaths. The better you get at each individual stage cuts off a lot of time in the overall picture.
It does not matter if you have real life constraints. Everybody does to some extent. As you learn the stages properly, your runs will become a lot faster. Maybe the first time you took an hour to get to stage 4. After enough repition of stage 1-4 you will end up coming at stage 4 in maybe 15 minutes. You will then reliably be able to get to stage 5 fast enough to start practicing there, and finally will be able to clear the arena in roughly an hour.
Practice makes perfect. Or do you expect me to believe you're such a busy-body that you get caught up in 'real-life constraints' in hourly intervals?
Lol I see what you are saying, but real life constaints is not a valid excuse? ok so my pet budgie should just die, or my dog should just defecate all over the house, or any one of a million things, the kids should just starve, etc etc.
As myself and others have said, repeatedly, it is not a case of practise, or lack of skill or anything, you are actually meant to take breaks from the PC, although we do not all do it hehehe, but health wise ya are meant too, plus a drink or a sammich or soemthing, so according to you I should not do any of these things?
It is just a save , will the world stop revolving?, will the sun refuse to shine because of such a horrendous option?
And for the record, I do not expect nor care if you believe anything, so not sure why you are saying I expect you to do anything.
You got your opinion, I got mine.
If you're not willnig to invest the time without longer than 15 minutes breaks then you do not deserve the achievement of completing it. You're not willing to dedicate your resources to it ---> sorry.
Dymence pointed out pretty much exactly why this would simplify the challenge.
OMG , you just do not get it do you, despite me and a million other people in the thread trying to tell you and your mates what we meant.
Real life things pop up, if you feel that a game is more important than real life, or your weekly gold rewards are more important, then on you go, some of us do not see things that way.
I never once said that I did not want to dedicate resources to it, I will get round to it after I am done my other operations.
I said real life things come up, and they must take precedence, not a game or a achievement, oh slap slap, longer than 15 minutes, bad terrible noob players do not want to put the time in, we still have to put the time in when we get back, learn the mechanics etc.
As @Nifty2g and @Xantaria have both pointed out already, it is you who does not get it.
Don't start vMSA runs if you expect something to pop up soon (pets, kids). Start with it when you have the time to do it, and it doesn't even need to be more than an hour. Don't go into vMSA expecting to clear it. Go in with the intention to practice.
Back on PTS when it first came out, it was literally 3-4 times harder than it is now with the damage mitigation & ability cost bugs that were around at that time. Regardless, I spent a lot of time just practicing the arena. I remember being stuck at stage 4, stage 5, stage 6, etc. but the amount of times I repeated said arenas I got better and cleared it more reliable every time. This is a proper learning process. A save function would cut this out entirely.
Just start a run when you know nothing will pop up soon, and if something happens to pop up anyways, that's unfortunate but that happens. That's life. I've done so many runs on PTS when it first came out, and sometimes I just had to stop because I had to do something else. Simply play for as long as you can and stop when you have to stop. Then you start over again with the experience from every run added and you get better and better.
My template character on the PTS got the achievement to kill 1000 dwarven constructs (with the only dwarven stages being stage 2 and 4) and got leveled from vr14 to vr16. That's how many times I repeated the content. And repetition makes for improvement. A healthy learning process.
You obviously don't have kids. I only pay at night when I expect them to sleep for 7-10 hours and they get up all the time from nightmares, a tummy ache, a new tooth, having to go to the bathroom, etc. Some of these things are quickly resolved but others require me to change sheets, stay up with them for a while, give them medicine, etc. Even if I have 4 hours to play that can quickly be reduced to nothing. The point being that my skill as a player has nothing to do with my skill as a parent.
No, I don't have kids.
That said, these should be rare incidents (especially the medicine part). I won't believe - from anyone - that they can't play for one hour straight without interruptions, ever.
And that is all you need. One hour, practice, and apply experience gained on following runs. Being able to clear it within a reasonable amount of time is part of the challenge and forces the playerbase to actually learn and improve.
A save function would entirely negate the learning aspect. Many of you say you don't understand. I for one don't understand that you don't understand. If you spend 2 hours per stage, desperately trying to progress and manage to pass by sheer luck and then save your progress to continue another day, you didn't learn anything. And that won't make your next runs go any easier, either.
So if I play tennis 1h 4 times a weeks I won't learn as playing 4h straight?
I really can't understand if you belive in what you say or are terrified by the fact that more people will finish the arena and take your little spot in the sun...
It's time to wake up: there are player just as skilled as you who can't finish with this ruleset. You want to artificially cut them out.Edited by ragespell on 3 December 2015 16:516 -
Stikato✭✭✭✭✭Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progressI subbed to get access to Orsinium; it also gave me 3000 crowns.
I will be saving them for the next DLC. Only thing that would change my mind would be a save function for Maelstrom. I'm too busy IRL to spend my time gaming in an arena that is more frustrating than fun. At least if I could save progress, I could do it over a few days, which would make it more enjoyable.
After getting hit with that Crit Charge dot a few times in PvP, and knowing I just don't have the time or desire to farm those weapons under the current system, I have lost a lot of motivation to play.
Edited by Stikato on 3 December 2015 16:59Mordimus - Stam Sorc2 -
Hiero_Glyph✭✭✭✭✭Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progressHiero_Glyph wrote: »
I love how ignorant this post is. Calling someone elitest, i love how many people throw that word around actually, then you say that he sucks in PvP and you killed him, like you were so insulted by his post you threw around attacks like that, it's great.Any person in the game can clear vMaelstrom within 1 hour. +-10 minutes.
If you can't then it's an L2P issue.
No save function needed.
Elitism at its best, the game is about enjoyment for many types of players, not a certain calibre of player dictating what is what to everyone else.
Just remembered killing you in PvP a few times, no offence, but you suck in PvP:}
Hows the high horse now?
Then again he is right Maelstrom is totally an L2P issue, its tough to beat it but each time it gets easier and easier. You have to work for it, not get it handed to you.
@code65536 They said something along the lines of Veteran being the main challenge and they didnt want people to get the weapons so easily, I don't have the exact quote but normal is for just doing the content and veteran is for the challenge and I dont think they are going to change their minds on that. (just paraphrasing)
Elitist*
And I was making the point that people like him do not govern how this game works, and the PvP part was put in deliberately to show him when he reads it and feels possibly bad about it, the lesson that many of the player base who reads his post will not like what he has to say.
Mirror effect.
So clearly you did not get it.
Many actually have lives outside of the game and cannot spend hours solid on the game, what about them? they want to do the content and they should and could, so why not be able to save progress instead of going through the same grind all over again.
Many again do not care about leaderboards, they want the title,. so your lot can have your precious leaderboards etc and not feel threated by da casuals:} so everyone is happy.
It's sad that people like you exist in this game, I'm sure @Xantaria is going to enjoy the taste of your tears
Stop being so self centered, just because something isn't going your way doesn't mean the rest of the people should suffer. Take the time to learn it and progress, it's a game after all not like the content is going anywhere. Just because you don't like leaderboards doesn't mean everyone hates them too.
You're basically asking everything to be handed for you with no work towards it. Maybe put the effort for the title like all the rest of the people have, it isn't meant to be easy to get you know?
@Nifty2g
I did intend to harvest some salt with my post and I had a huge grin on my face when reading what he wrote. :')
Awwww elitists banding together, so sweet, feel threatened much?, lol, just lol
Chillout man (kid?), Nothing to be mad about. It's funny though that you are literally getting angry about something people write in a random game forum. Maybe it's you taking gaming too serious and not me. In other words: Respect my opinion, I respect yours aswell. I did not attack you for being a casual or whatever person you are whereas you immediatly started bashing and insulting me for being an 'eletist jerk' according to your opinion. Enough tears harvested, gotta get back to work.
Actually, you branded everyoen with the l2p bracket, and implying all were casuals and noobs for not doing vma in a hour or so, that is what I took objection too, and have others in this thread, maybe you did not realise you were being a *** but you were.
So you basically attacked every single player who either cannot do it or do it in the time you stipulated, its all there in what you wrote.
Hardly respectful of the must vaster playerbase, and I put in my comments to show you exactly how some others will feel.
And your mate well, its obvious he loves you, might be a thing there, something got under his skin.....
Elitists only respect other elitists, never anyone else, IMO
Edit, who said I was angry, I just do not like seeing people being put down so people can lord it all over them, so much you and your "friend" have wrong
Respect is only given when the respect is mutual. Your disrespect towards nifty and xantaria is so blatant it just makes me laugh at how self-righteous you think you are.
Going on about 'people with normal lives'. What is normal? Are you part of those teenagers that run around saying 'LOL HE PLAYS GAMES WHAT A NO LIFER'?
Time is essential in what gates content to be difficult. If someone went through the hard work to learn the stages and eventually complete it with enough practice in a reasonable time window, he should be awarded with the title etc etc. If then a save function gets implemented and people just start smashing their heads against the metaphorical wall until they complete it after weeks, not having actually progressed at getting better at the previous stages. This makes the achievement entirely void because the effort put into it is then 'less skillful'.
With enough chance and luck you'll pass any stage after spending enough time on it, which is why the save function would simplify the content too much.
Well to be fair, Xantaria started it with the arrogant post he put about everyone l2p and I posted to him, and then nifty started on me, so it was begun there.
And for the record, what you think of me means nothing, you do not get it.
I have put many times about the ability to save progress due to real life constraints, not lack of skill or learning etc
Try reading
Thanks
Real life constraints are not a valid excuse.
If you actively practice when you have the time, the stages will get easier over time. Let's say, hypothetically speaking, you died 20 times in stage 1 the first time you tried it. Then you played more often and started to clear it with 10 deaths, 5 deaths, and finally 0 deaths. The better you get at each individual stage cuts off a lot of time in the overall picture.
It does not matter if you have real life constraints. Everybody does to some extent. As you learn the stages properly, your runs will become a lot faster. Maybe the first time you took an hour to get to stage 4. After enough repition of stage 1-4 you will end up coming at stage 4 in maybe 15 minutes. You will then reliably be able to get to stage 5 fast enough to start practicing there, and finally will be able to clear the arena in roughly an hour.
Practice makes perfect. Or do you expect me to believe you're such a busy-body that you get caught up in 'real-life constraints' in hourly intervals?
Lol I see what you are saying, but real life constaints is not a valid excuse? ok so my pet budgie should just die, or my dog should just defecate all over the house, or any one of a million things, the kids should just starve, etc etc.
As myself and others have said, repeatedly, it is not a case of practise, or lack of skill or anything, you are actually meant to take breaks from the PC, although we do not all do it hehehe, but health wise ya are meant too, plus a drink or a sammich or soemthing, so according to you I should not do any of these things?
It is just a save , will the world stop revolving?, will the sun refuse to shine because of such a horrendous option?
And for the record, I do not expect nor care if you believe anything, so not sure why you are saying I expect you to do anything.
You got your opinion, I got mine.
If you're not willnig to invest the time without longer than 15 minutes breaks then you do not deserve the achievement of completing it. You're not willing to dedicate your resources to it ---> sorry.
Dymence pointed out pretty much exactly why this would simplify the challenge.
OMG , you just do not get it do you, despite me and a million other people in the thread trying to tell you and your mates what we meant.
Real life things pop up, if you feel that a game is more important than real life, or your weekly gold rewards are more important, then on you go, some of us do not see things that way.
I never once said that I did not want to dedicate resources to it, I will get round to it after I am done my other operations.
I said real life things come up, and they must take precedence, not a game or a achievement, oh slap slap, longer than 15 minutes, bad terrible noob players do not want to put the time in, we still have to put the time in when we get back, learn the mechanics etc.
As @Nifty2g and @Xantaria have both pointed out already, it is you who does not get it.
Don't start vMSA runs if you expect something to pop up soon (pets, kids). Start with it when you have the time to do it, and it doesn't even need to be more than an hour. Don't go into vMSA expecting to clear it. Go in with the intention to practice.
Back on PTS when it first came out, it was literally 3-4 times harder than it is now with the damage mitigation & ability cost bugs that were around at that time. Regardless, I spent a lot of time just practicing the arena. I remember being stuck at stage 4, stage 5, stage 6, etc. but the amount of times I repeated said arenas I got better and cleared it more reliable every time. This is a proper learning process. A save function would cut this out entirely.
Just start a run when you know nothing will pop up soon, and if something happens to pop up anyways, that's unfortunate but that happens. That's life. I've done so many runs on PTS when it first came out, and sometimes I just had to stop because I had to do something else. Simply play for as long as you can and stop when you have to stop. Then you start over again with the experience from every run added and you get better and better.
My template character on the PTS got the achievement to kill 1000 dwarven constructs (with the only dwarven stages being stage 2 and 4) and got leveled from vr14 to vr16. That's how many times I repeated the content. And repetition makes for improvement. A healthy learning process.
You obviously don't have kids. I only pay at night when I expect them to sleep for 7-10 hours and they get up all the time from nightmares, a tummy ache, a new tooth, having to go to the bathroom, etc. Some of these things are quickly resolved but others require me to change sheets, stay up with them for a while, give them medicine, etc. Even if I have 4 hours to play that can quickly be reduced to nothing. The point being that my skill as a player has nothing to do with my skill as a parent.
No, I don't have kids.
That said, these should be rare incidents (especially the medicine part). I won't believe - from anyone - that they can't play for one hour straight without interruptions, ever.
And that is all you need. One hour, practice, and apply experience gained on following runs. Being able to clear it within a reasonable amount of time is part of the challenge and forces the playerbase to actually learn and improve.
A save function would entirely negate the learning aspect. Many of you say you don't understand. I for one don't understand that you don't understand. If you spend 2 hours per stage, desperately trying to progress and manage to pass by sheer luck and then save your progress to continue another day, you didn't learn anything. And that won't make your next runs go any easier, either.
I wholeheartedly disagree. If anything it would let player practice the stages that give them the most difficulty. No longer would you need to spend time just getting to stage 7, you could continue at stage 7 and work towards learning how to complete it. A player wih only an hour a night could conceivably learn how to complete the arena in a week whereas without the save feature they would just be playing the same few stages each time they tried. Yes, they would learn these few stages better but they would be no closer to completing the arena since they lack the time and knowledge of what to do beyond those stages. If anything not having a save option is preventing players from learning how to finish the arena since it is a huge time sink (at least initially) in its current form.
Again, clear time and sigils used should be the measure that determines leaderboard placement. No one cares if you take 10 hours in a single session to complete the run or play 2 hours every day for 5 days (well, you seem to think it matters but there is no difference in skill, just a lack of real-life distractions). It's literally the same thing with the exception that not everyone has 10 hours to play in single session. And to reiterate my question that you missedt: Honestly, what advantage does a player have from taking multiple sessions to complete an arena run?Edited by Hiero_Glyph on 3 December 2015 17:074 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, Vet Maelstrom should be reset if you leave for more than 15 min (as is currently the case).In this thread we witness players refuse to learn mechanics and progress as a player#MOREORBS2 -
SHADOW2KK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progressIn this thread we witness players refuse to learn mechanics and progress as a player
Really, quote any example from anyone in this thread who refuses to learn mechanics and who wants nerfs or easier vma or anything.....
Please, prove your point by quoting passages from anyone who wishes this, on this thread.?
Cos the way I and many others read this thread, it is a war between a harmless save feature for the "progression" that you are fanatical about seemingly:P, and that is it.
No one is crying for nerfs or easier time, as we all have to do it when we get back from real life stuff, and @Xantaria I was using humorous examples of what could happen, not saying events like that happen, it was to illustrate the point.
15 minute is not acceptable, you could crash, like I did on last arena, which epicly disgruntled me, and then I found ohhh I have to do it all again, and go through the same grind that you and your ilk seems to think is ok, yeah fair enough it is good in a way, cos you can sharpen your skills etc.
If you have the time to do so, this debate has never been about nerfs, despite all the strong opinons, myself included, it has been about a simple save feature for when things happen, crashes happen to most of us, other things can happen too.
Even if it Zeni did a seperate leaderboard for the save function peeeps, what harm could it possibly do?
Edit, I did say somewhere in this thread, that I respect the ones who have done vet maelstrom, good on you, respects, even you @Nifty2g and @Xantaria , but there are others who can do it too, bar a crash I almost done it, and I do not see a problem with a save feature, I am not taking anything away from you guys, so quit thinking I am, just for variety, for once....Edited by SHADOW2KK on 3 December 2015 17:21Once I was a lamb, playing in a green field. Then the wolves came. Now I am an eagle and I fly in a different universe.
Been taking heads since TeS 3 Morrowind..
Been enjoying PvP tears since 2014
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Been playing since Beta and Early Access2 -
Hiero_Glyph✭✭✭✭✭Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progressIn this thread we witness players refuse to learn mechanics and progress as a player
This is so elitist that it hurts me to even read it. Honestly, explain what advantage is provided by being able to complete the solo arena across multiple sessions? If there is no advantage then there is no reason not to allow saves; let player skill, not time to play, determine the best players.2 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, Vet Maelstrom should be reset if you leave for more than 15 min (as is currently the case).
How? Do you even know what this meansHiero_Glyph wrote: »In this thread we witness players refuse to learn mechanics and progress as a player
This is so elitist that it hurts me to even read it. Honestly, explain what advantage is provided by being able to complete the solo arena across multiple sessions? If there is no advantage then there is no reason not to allow saves; let player skill, not time to play, determine the best players.
#MOREORBS0 -
Stikato✭✭✭✭✭Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progressIn this thread we witness players refuse to learn mechanics and progress as a player
All we are doing in this thread is expressing that the lack of a save mechanic is dumb for those of us very busy IRL.
I remember when you couldn't clear vMA and started a giant thread complaining that you didn't like the mechanics. Now that you can finish it, you want to laugh at everyone else and say L2P?
This content, as it is designed, simply takes up too much of my gaming evening to L2P, and as you yourself pointed out in your original thread, has many insta-death experiences that make the first several runs not very fun. And what is a few runs for somebody with loads of time, is 10-20 mini runs for the rest of us.
Or... why do I keep having to prove I can get to stage 7? Last time I did, the damn shields were bugged and the scream was unavoidable. It is fixed now, but the thought of spending another hour to get there, and then another couple hours to L2P stage 7, then L2P stage 8, then L2P stage 9, for some RNG-BOP charade.... just no! It's not good design, it isn't fun, and it isn't even rewarding. Sure, I bet I can do it a couple times, but to go through ALL of that for a Well-Fitted Robe of Go F Yourself isn't my idea of a good time.
After all of that BS, the one thing we are asking for is to save progress. It's the least "skillful" of the attributes needed to complete the damn thing, but would be the most helpful in allowing some us to do it.
Mordimus - Stam Sorc4 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, Vet Maelstrom should be reset if you leave for more than 15 min (as is currently the case).Hiero_Glyph wrote: »
I love how ignorant this post is. Calling someone elitest, i love how many people throw that word around actually, then you say that he sucks in PvP and you killed him, like you were so insulted by his post you threw around attacks like that, it's great.Any person in the game can clear vMaelstrom within 1 hour. +-10 minutes.
If you can't then it's an L2P issue.
No save function needed.
Elitism at its best, the game is about enjoyment for many types of players, not a certain calibre of player dictating what is what to everyone else.
Just remembered killing you in PvP a few times, no offence, but you suck in PvP:}
Hows the high horse now?
Then again he is right Maelstrom is totally an L2P issue, its tough to beat it but each time it gets easier and easier. You have to work for it, not get it handed to you.
@code65536 They said something along the lines of Veteran being the main challenge and they didnt want people to get the weapons so easily, I don't have the exact quote but normal is for just doing the content and veteran is for the challenge and I dont think they are going to change their minds on that. (just paraphrasing)
Elitist*
And I was making the point that people like him do not govern how this game works, and the PvP part was put in deliberately to show him when he reads it and feels possibly bad about it, the lesson that many of the player base who reads his post will not like what he has to say.
Mirror effect.
So clearly you did not get it.
Many actually have lives outside of the game and cannot spend hours solid on the game, what about them? they want to do the content and they should and could, so why not be able to save progress instead of going through the same grind all over again.
Many again do not care about leaderboards, they want the title,. so your lot can have your precious leaderboards etc and not feel threated by da casuals:} so everyone is happy.
It's sad that people like you exist in this game, I'm sure @Xantaria is going to enjoy the taste of your tears
Stop being so self centered, just because something isn't going your way doesn't mean the rest of the people should suffer. Take the time to learn it and progress, it's a game after all not like the content is going anywhere. Just because you don't like leaderboards doesn't mean everyone hates them too.
You're basically asking everything to be handed for you with no work towards it. Maybe put the effort for the title like all the rest of the people have, it isn't meant to be easy to get you know?
@Nifty2g
I did intend to harvest some salt with my post and I had a huge grin on my face when reading what he wrote. :')
Awwww elitists banding together, so sweet, feel threatened much?, lol, just lol
Chillout man (kid?), Nothing to be mad about. It's funny though that you are literally getting angry about something people write in a random game forum. Maybe it's you taking gaming too serious and not me. In other words: Respect my opinion, I respect yours aswell. I did not attack you for being a casual or whatever person you are whereas you immediatly started bashing and insulting me for being an 'eletist jerk' according to your opinion. Enough tears harvested, gotta get back to work.
Actually, you branded everyoen with the l2p bracket, and implying all were casuals and noobs for not doing vma in a hour or so, that is what I took objection too, and have others in this thread, maybe you did not realise you were being a *** but you were.
So you basically attacked every single player who either cannot do it or do it in the time you stipulated, its all there in what you wrote.
Hardly respectful of the must vaster playerbase, and I put in my comments to show you exactly how some others will feel.
And your mate well, its obvious he loves you, might be a thing there, something got under his skin.....
Elitists only respect other elitists, never anyone else, IMO
Edit, who said I was angry, I just do not like seeing people being put down so people can lord it all over them, so much you and your "friend" have wrong
Respect is only given when the respect is mutual. Your disrespect towards nifty and xantaria is so blatant it just makes me laugh at how self-righteous you think you are.
Going on about 'people with normal lives'. What is normal? Are you part of those teenagers that run around saying 'LOL HE PLAYS GAMES WHAT A NO LIFER'?
Time is essential in what gates content to be difficult. If someone went through the hard work to learn the stages and eventually complete it with enough practice in a reasonable time window, he should be awarded with the title etc etc. If then a save function gets implemented and people just start smashing their heads against the metaphorical wall until they complete it after weeks, not having actually progressed at getting better at the previous stages. This makes the achievement entirely void because the effort put into it is then 'less skillful'.
With enough chance and luck you'll pass any stage after spending enough time on it, which is why the save function would simplify the content too much.
Well to be fair, Xantaria started it with the arrogant post he put about everyone l2p and I posted to him, and then nifty started on me, so it was begun there.
And for the record, what you think of me means nothing, you do not get it.
I have put many times about the ability to save progress due to real life constraints, not lack of skill or learning etc
Try reading
Thanks
Real life constraints are not a valid excuse.
If you actively practice when you have the time, the stages will get easier over time. Let's say, hypothetically speaking, you died 20 times in stage 1 the first time you tried it. Then you played more often and started to clear it with 10 deaths, 5 deaths, and finally 0 deaths. The better you get at each individual stage cuts off a lot of time in the overall picture.
It does not matter if you have real life constraints. Everybody does to some extent. As you learn the stages properly, your runs will become a lot faster. Maybe the first time you took an hour to get to stage 4. After enough repition of stage 1-4 you will end up coming at stage 4 in maybe 15 minutes. You will then reliably be able to get to stage 5 fast enough to start practicing there, and finally will be able to clear the arena in roughly an hour.
Practice makes perfect. Or do you expect me to believe you're such a busy-body that you get caught up in 'real-life constraints' in hourly intervals?
Lol I see what you are saying, but real life constaints is not a valid excuse? ok so my pet budgie should just die, or my dog should just defecate all over the house, or any one of a million things, the kids should just starve, etc etc.
As myself and others have said, repeatedly, it is not a case of practise, or lack of skill or anything, you are actually meant to take breaks from the PC, although we do not all do it hehehe, but health wise ya are meant too, plus a drink or a sammich or soemthing, so according to you I should not do any of these things?
It is just a save , will the world stop revolving?, will the sun refuse to shine because of such a horrendous option?
And for the record, I do not expect nor care if you believe anything, so not sure why you are saying I expect you to do anything.
You got your opinion, I got mine.
If you're not willnig to invest the time without longer than 15 minutes breaks then you do not deserve the achievement of completing it. You're not willing to dedicate your resources to it ---> sorry.
Dymence pointed out pretty much exactly why this would simplify the challenge.
OMG , you just do not get it do you, despite me and a million other people in the thread trying to tell you and your mates what we meant.
Real life things pop up, if you feel that a game is more important than real life, or your weekly gold rewards are more important, then on you go, some of us do not see things that way.
I never once said that I did not want to dedicate resources to it, I will get round to it after I am done my other operations.
I said real life things come up, and they must take precedence, not a game or a achievement, oh slap slap, longer than 15 minutes, bad terrible noob players do not want to put the time in, we still have to put the time in when we get back, learn the mechanics etc.
As @Nifty2g and @Xantaria have both pointed out already, it is you who does not get it.
Don't start vMSA runs if you expect something to pop up soon (pets, kids). Start with it when you have the time to do it, and it doesn't even need to be more than an hour. Don't go into vMSA expecting to clear it. Go in with the intention to practice.
Back on PTS when it first came out, it was literally 3-4 times harder than it is now with the damage mitigation & ability cost bugs that were around at that time. Regardless, I spent a lot of time just practicing the arena. I remember being stuck at stage 4, stage 5, stage 6, etc. but the amount of times I repeated said arenas I got better and cleared it more reliable every time. This is a proper learning process. A save function would cut this out entirely.
Just start a run when you know nothing will pop up soon, and if something happens to pop up anyways, that's unfortunate but that happens. That's life. I've done so many runs on PTS when it first came out, and sometimes I just had to stop because I had to do something else. Simply play for as long as you can and stop when you have to stop. Then you start over again with the experience from every run added and you get better and better.
My template character on the PTS got the achievement to kill 1000 dwarven constructs (with the only dwarven stages being stage 2 and 4) and got leveled from vr14 to vr16. That's how many times I repeated the content. And repetition makes for improvement. A healthy learning process.
You obviously don't have kids. I only pay at night when I expect them to sleep for 7-10 hours and they get up all the time from nightmares, a tummy ache, a new tooth, having to go to the bathroom, etc. Some of these things are quickly resolved but others require me to change sheets, stay up with them for a while, give them medicine, etc. Even if I have 4 hours to play that can quickly be reduced to nothing. The point being that my skill as a player has nothing to do with my skill as a parent.
No, I don't have kids.
That said, these should be rare incidents (especially the medicine part). I won't believe - from anyone - that they can't play for one hour straight without interruptions, ever.
And that is all you need. One hour, practice, and apply experience gained on following runs. Being able to clear it within a reasonable amount of time is part of the challenge and forces the playerbase to actually learn and improve.
A save function would entirely negate the learning aspect. Many of you say you don't understand. I for one don't understand that you don't understand. If you spend 2 hours per stage, desperately trying to progress and manage to pass by sheer luck and then save your progress to continue another day, you didn't learn anything. And that won't make your next runs go any easier, either.
So if I play tennis 1h 4 times a weeks I won't learn as playing 4h straight?
I really can't understand if you belive in what you say or are terrified by the fact that more people will finish the arena and take your little spot in the sun...
It's time to wake up: there are player just as skilled as you who can't finish with this ruleset. You want to artificially cut them out.
I'm not really terrified of people taking my 'little spot in the sun' as that spot is currently the nr1 in my own class leaderboards, which I don't think anyone will take anytime soon. If anything, I would relish in the fact that my score gets beaten, because that means that I'd have actual competition, unlike now.
Tennis can't be compared with this either, as tennis is 'one game' whereas this arena has many different stages with different mechanics and different difficulties to be learned.
If someone can't finish the arena under the current ruleset, then he is not 'just as skilled' as me. That doesn't even make the most remote bit of sense.Hiero_Glyph wrote: »Hiero_Glyph wrote: »
I love how ignorant this post is. Calling someone elitest, i love how many people throw that word around actually, then you say that he sucks in PvP and you killed him, like you were so insulted by his post you threw around attacks like that, it's great.Any person in the game can clear vMaelstrom within 1 hour. +-10 minutes.
If you can't then it's an L2P issue.
No save function needed.
Elitism at its best, the game is about enjoyment for many types of players, not a certain calibre of player dictating what is what to everyone else.
Just remembered killing you in PvP a few times, no offence, but you suck in PvP:}
Hows the high horse now?
Then again he is right Maelstrom is totally an L2P issue, its tough to beat it but each time it gets easier and easier. You have to work for it, not get it handed to you.
@code65536 They said something along the lines of Veteran being the main challenge and they didnt want people to get the weapons so easily, I don't have the exact quote but normal is for just doing the content and veteran is for the challenge and I dont think they are going to change their minds on that. (just paraphrasing)
Elitist*
And I was making the point that people like him do not govern how this game works, and the PvP part was put in deliberately to show him when he reads it and feels possibly bad about it, the lesson that many of the player base who reads his post will not like what he has to say.
Mirror effect.
So clearly you did not get it.
Many actually have lives outside of the game and cannot spend hours solid on the game, what about them? they want to do the content and they should and could, so why not be able to save progress instead of going through the same grind all over again.
Many again do not care about leaderboards, they want the title,. so your lot can have your precious leaderboards etc and not feel threated by da casuals:} so everyone is happy.
It's sad that people like you exist in this game, I'm sure @Xantaria is going to enjoy the taste of your tears
Stop being so self centered, just because something isn't going your way doesn't mean the rest of the people should suffer. Take the time to learn it and progress, it's a game after all not like the content is going anywhere. Just because you don't like leaderboards doesn't mean everyone hates them too.
You're basically asking everything to be handed for you with no work towards it. Maybe put the effort for the title like all the rest of the people have, it isn't meant to be easy to get you know?
@Nifty2g
I did intend to harvest some salt with my post and I had a huge grin on my face when reading what he wrote. :')
Awwww elitists banding together, so sweet, feel threatened much?, lol, just lol
Chillout man (kid?), Nothing to be mad about. It's funny though that you are literally getting angry about something people write in a random game forum. Maybe it's you taking gaming too serious and not me. In other words: Respect my opinion, I respect yours aswell. I did not attack you for being a casual or whatever person you are whereas you immediatly started bashing and insulting me for being an 'eletist jerk' according to your opinion. Enough tears harvested, gotta get back to work.
Actually, you branded everyoen with the l2p bracket, and implying all were casuals and noobs for not doing vma in a hour or so, that is what I took objection too, and have others in this thread, maybe you did not realise you were being a *** but you were.
So you basically attacked every single player who either cannot do it or do it in the time you stipulated, its all there in what you wrote.
Hardly respectful of the must vaster playerbase, and I put in my comments to show you exactly how some others will feel.
And your mate well, its obvious he loves you, might be a thing there, something got under his skin.....
Elitists only respect other elitists, never anyone else, IMO
Edit, who said I was angry, I just do not like seeing people being put down so people can lord it all over them, so much you and your "friend" have wrong
Respect is only given when the respect is mutual. Your disrespect towards nifty and xantaria is so blatant it just makes me laugh at how self-righteous you think you are.
Going on about 'people with normal lives'. What is normal? Are you part of those teenagers that run around saying 'LOL HE PLAYS GAMES WHAT A NO LIFER'?
Time is essential in what gates content to be difficult. If someone went through the hard work to learn the stages and eventually complete it with enough practice in a reasonable time window, he should be awarded with the title etc etc. If then a save function gets implemented and people just start smashing their heads against the metaphorical wall until they complete it after weeks, not having actually progressed at getting better at the previous stages. This makes the achievement entirely void because the effort put into it is then 'less skillful'.
With enough chance and luck you'll pass any stage after spending enough time on it, which is why the save function would simplify the content too much.
Well to be fair, Xantaria started it with the arrogant post he put about everyone l2p and I posted to him, and then nifty started on me, so it was begun there.
And for the record, what you think of me means nothing, you do not get it.
I have put many times about the ability to save progress due to real life constraints, not lack of skill or learning etc
Try reading
Thanks
Real life constraints are not a valid excuse.
If you actively practice when you have the time, the stages will get easier over time. Let's say, hypothetically speaking, you died 20 times in stage 1 the first time you tried it. Then you played more often and started to clear it with 10 deaths, 5 deaths, and finally 0 deaths. The better you get at each individual stage cuts off a lot of time in the overall picture.
It does not matter if you have real life constraints. Everybody does to some extent. As you learn the stages properly, your runs will become a lot faster. Maybe the first time you took an hour to get to stage 4. After enough repition of stage 1-4 you will end up coming at stage 4 in maybe 15 minutes. You will then reliably be able to get to stage 5 fast enough to start practicing there, and finally will be able to clear the arena in roughly an hour.
Practice makes perfect. Or do you expect me to believe you're such a busy-body that you get caught up in 'real-life constraints' in hourly intervals?
Lol I see what you are saying, but real life constaints is not a valid excuse? ok so my pet budgie should just die, or my dog should just defecate all over the house, or any one of a million things, the kids should just starve, etc etc.
As myself and others have said, repeatedly, it is not a case of practise, or lack of skill or anything, you are actually meant to take breaks from the PC, although we do not all do it hehehe, but health wise ya are meant too, plus a drink or a sammich or soemthing, so according to you I should not do any of these things?
It is just a save , will the world stop revolving?, will the sun refuse to shine because of such a horrendous option?
And for the record, I do not expect nor care if you believe anything, so not sure why you are saying I expect you to do anything.
You got your opinion, I got mine.
If you're not willnig to invest the time without longer than 15 minutes breaks then you do not deserve the achievement of completing it. You're not willing to dedicate your resources to it ---> sorry.
Dymence pointed out pretty much exactly why this would simplify the challenge.
OMG , you just do not get it do you, despite me and a million other people in the thread trying to tell you and your mates what we meant.
Real life things pop up, if you feel that a game is more important than real life, or your weekly gold rewards are more important, then on you go, some of us do not see things that way.
I never once said that I did not want to dedicate resources to it, I will get round to it after I am done my other operations.
I said real life things come up, and they must take precedence, not a game or a achievement, oh slap slap, longer than 15 minutes, bad terrible noob players do not want to put the time in, we still have to put the time in when we get back, learn the mechanics etc.
As @Nifty2g and @Xantaria have both pointed out already, it is you who does not get it.
Don't start vMSA runs if you expect something to pop up soon (pets, kids). Start with it when you have the time to do it, and it doesn't even need to be more than an hour. Don't go into vMSA expecting to clear it. Go in with the intention to practice.
Back on PTS when it first came out, it was literally 3-4 times harder than it is now with the damage mitigation & ability cost bugs that were around at that time. Regardless, I spent a lot of time just practicing the arena. I remember being stuck at stage 4, stage 5, stage 6, etc. but the amount of times I repeated said arenas I got better and cleared it more reliable every time. This is a proper learning process. A save function would cut this out entirely.
Just start a run when you know nothing will pop up soon, and if something happens to pop up anyways, that's unfortunate but that happens. That's life. I've done so many runs on PTS when it first came out, and sometimes I just had to stop because I had to do something else. Simply play for as long as you can and stop when you have to stop. Then you start over again with the experience from every run added and you get better and better.
My template character on the PTS got the achievement to kill 1000 dwarven constructs (with the only dwarven stages being stage 2 and 4) and got leveled from vr14 to vr16. That's how many times I repeated the content. And repetition makes for improvement. A healthy learning process.
You obviously don't have kids. I only pay at night when I expect them to sleep for 7-10 hours and they get up all the time from nightmares, a tummy ache, a new tooth, having to go to the bathroom, etc. Some of these things are quickly resolved but others require me to change sheets, stay up with them for a while, give them medicine, etc. Even if I have 4 hours to play that can quickly be reduced to nothing. The point being that my skill as a player has nothing to do with my skill as a parent.
No, I don't have kids.
That said, these should be rare incidents (especially the medicine part). I won't believe - from anyone - that they can't play for one hour straight without interruptions, ever.
And that is all you need. One hour, practice, and apply experience gained on following runs. Being able to clear it within a reasonable amount of time is part of the challenge and forces the playerbase to actually learn and improve.
A save function would entirely negate the learning aspect. Many of you say you don't understand. I for one don't understand that you don't understand. If you spend 2 hours per stage, desperately trying to progress and manage to pass by sheer luck and then save your progress to continue another day, you didn't learn anything. And that won't make your next runs go any easier, either.
I wholeheartedly disagree. If anything it would let player practice the stages that give them the most difficulty. No longer would you need to spend time just getting to stage 7, you could continue at stage 7 and work towards learning how to complete it. A player wih only an hour a night could conceivably learn how to complete the arena in a week whereas without the save feature they would just be playing the same few stages each time they tried. Yes, they would learn these few stages better but they would be no closer to completing the arena since they lack the time and knowledge of what to do beyond those stages. If anything not having a save option is preventing players from learning how to finish the arena since it is a huge time sink (at least initially) in its current form.
Again, clear time and sigils used should be the measure that determines leaderboard placement. No one cares if you take 10 hours in a single session to complete the run or play 2 hours every day for 5 days (well, you seem to think it matters but there is no difference in skill, just a lack of real-life distractions). It's literally the same thing with the exception that not everyone has 10 hours to play in single session. And to reiterate my question that you missedt: Honestly, what advantage does a player have from taking multiple sessions to complete an arena run?
The advantages are many. People lose focus after spending longer amounts of time doing one thing. Allowing someone to start fresh at any time he pleases already makes it a lot easier.
And most importantly, as I already stated numerous times, you can pass stages by sheer chance and luck and then save your progress. The prime example of this was when I ran it on PTS, I had the most immense trouble with stage 6, specifically round 4. I managed to pass it by sheer luck a few times but I could never consistently clear it. I had to go back there several times to actually understand and come up with an idea of what to do so that I could.
If a save function comes into play, this learning process dissapears. People can just force their luck by spending an eternity on it and eventually get completions. That takes the entire challenge away. Forcing to restart creates a learning function.Honestly, I don't understand why this is even that controversial at all.
Leaderboards
The simple solution is to keep the timer running. So if you step aside for 8 hours, your run time will be 8 hours longer. That should easily take people who pause out of the running for the leaderboards.
Progression, Forced Restart
@Dymence and @Nifty2g have argued that forcing people to restart forces them to practice the earlier rounds and "progress" in skill and that people shouldn't just keep banging against the rounds until they get through. While I don't entirely agree with this, I do see the merit of a "Game Over, Please Restart" mechanism.
But why on earth should this mechanism be tied to someone's schedule? How in bloody blazes does that even make sense?
If you want such a "Game Over" mechanism, the logical way to do it is via the lives. Look back at progression in vDSA: You had 100 lives for 4 players, so you can wipe just 25 times before you are forced to restart the entire arena. in vMA, you have 500 lives for just 1 player--essentially, this allows anyone who has the time (or a heavy object that they can place on their keyboard to prevent timing out) to "just start smashing their heads against the metaphorical wall until they complete it" (to quote @Dymence ). And that's exactly what is already happening: a number of people who have cleared vMA have reported that their first run took many, many hours and over 100 deaths.
All that this current no-save system does is punish players who don't have the luxury of large, contiguous blocks of time. Nothing more. It doesn't have any effect on who's at the top of the leaderboard, it doesn't really do a good job of forcing progression through restarts, and it certainly is not a measure of a player's skills and abilities.
So add a save system. Keep the clock running. And reduce the number of lives from a ridiculous 500 to something more reasonable. There. Problem solved. Now stop this childish pissing contest.
I've already mentioned something similar on another thread. This is the only way I could agree on a save function being implemented. There is a necessity for a 'Game Over' function in order to keep the difficulty level. This is currently time, but it could very well be replaced with deaths. As you say, the number of lives should be drastically reduced, to something below 100, in my opinion.
0 -
Hiero_Glyph✭✭✭✭✭Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress
How? Do you even know what this meansHiero_Glyph wrote: »In this thread we witness players refuse to learn mechanics and progress as a player
This is so elitist that it hurts me to even read it. Honestly, explain what advantage is provided by being able to complete the solo arena across multiple sessions? If there is no advantage then there is no reason not to allow saves; let player skill, not time to play, determine the best players.
What was your first clear time? What is your current clear time? You are being an elitist because you were able to put in the time initially to learn the mechanics and reduce your clear time to a reasonable amount. No one is asking for a nerf here. The request is simply to be able to continue a character's progress should you not have enough time to do so in a single session. This would lead to more players clearing the arena, improved clear times, and a more comptetive leaderboard. Are you really trying to argue that time-to-play should be a requirement for making the leaderboard?3 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, Vet Maelstrom should be reset if you leave for more than 15 min (as is currently the case).
My first clear time was 1 hour 50 minutes because I didn't try to complete it in one go, I went back in 4 times after quitting on different stages.Hiero_Glyph wrote: »
How? Do you even know what this meansHiero_Glyph wrote: »In this thread we witness players refuse to learn mechanics and progress as a player
This is so elitist that it hurts me to even read it. Honestly, explain what advantage is provided by being able to complete the solo arena across multiple sessions? If there is no advantage then there is no reason not to allow saves; let player skill, not time to play, determine the best players.
What was your first clear time? What is your current clear time? You are being an elitist because you were able to put in the time initially to learn the mechanics and reduce your clear time to a reasonable amount. No one is asking for a nerf here. The request is simply to be able to continue a character's progress should you not have enough time to do so in a single session. This would lead to more players clearing the arena, improved clear times, and a more comptetive leaderboard. Are you really trying to argue that time-to-play should be a requirement for making the leaderboard?
My current clear time is 1 hour 2 minutes. I've done a total of I'd say 10 total clears.
Your argument makes no sense, I put the time in to learn mechanics I took it slow I didn't smash my head for 5 hours in a single run, because unlike you and majority of other people in this thread I understand how and when to take a break and come back at it with a fresh start. Me telling you how to progress as a player is not elitist, kinda called helping.
A save function will eliminate this process and it's clear that ZOS put this content here as a way to make players progress, I'm not saying you are asking for nerfs I'm saying you want to bypass the learning curve, how exactly would this make leaderboards more competitive has no link to your argument, if a player can't even spare an hour to clear how will they play on a competitive level?#MOREORBS1 -
Islyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progressYes because I likely will not be able play uninterrupted long enough to complete it if it's really taking 4-6 hours straight.Edited by Islyn on 3 December 2015 17:46Member of the Old Guard - Closed Betas 20133 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, Vet Maelstrom should be reset if you leave for more than 15 min (as is currently the case).
That was Round 6? I didn't know the mechanic and I'm pretty sure I stated that in the thread after people explained it, turns out turning the boss green doesn't remove an enrage phase just makes her take more damage. I haven't told people to L2P I'm telling them to take the time to figure out how to deal with mechanics. Majority of the people in this thread are too stubborn to value another players opinion who is trying to help them.#MOREORBS0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, Vet Maelstrom should be reset if you leave for more than 15 min (as is currently the case).
It does if you go in there with no practice, which is advised againstYes because I likely will not be able play uninterrupted long enough to complete it if it's really taking 4-6 hours straight.
#MOREORBS0 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭In this thread we witness players refuse to learn mechanics and progress as a player
haha thats rich!
I don't even care about the arena, but at this point its obvious we have reached the conclusion of any meaningful discussion.
https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/01/22/daniel-goleman-focus-10000-hours-myth/
the whole idea of time invested = more skill or getting better has been debunked so many times by top researchers that its pointless to continue talking about it.
Just banging your head against an arena(or any learned/acquired task) over and over again even with a save feature is not going to have any meaningful impact on if they complete it or not, you will just be X amount of hours,days,months, or years old at the same spot. Barring luck which is unreliable and unpredictable chance.
The fact folks feel threatened by such a feature is quite telling to me....how does such a feature effect you? the answer is, it doesn't, so why do you care...Oh "because they should have to do it the same way you did right"....I guess i should have to file my taxes the same way everyone else did in the 1950's too......Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak6 -
Hiero_Glyph✭✭✭✭✭Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progressThe advantages are many. People lose focus after spending longer amounts of time doing one thing. Allowing someone to start fresh at any time he pleases already makes it a lot easier.
And most importantly, as I already stated numerous times, you can pass stages by sheer chance and luck and then save your progress. The prime example of this was when I ran it on PTS, I had the most immense trouble with stage 6, specifically round 4. I managed to pass it by sheer luck a few times but I could never consistently clear it. I had to go back there several times to actually understand and come up with an idea of what to do so that I could.
If a save function comes into play, this learning process dissapears. People can just force their luck by spending an eternity on it and eventually get completions. That takes the entire challenge away. Forcing to restart creates a learning function.
Staying fresh is relative to what is happening to make them stop playing in the first place. In some cases they may have work in the morning and coming back 20 hours later to try again means they have to relearn many apsects all over again due to being out of practice. Similarly, you could leave your computer/console running and use a method to avoid the server timeout and just come back to keep trying later. Is a player that uses such a strategy placing higher on the leaderboards? Doubtful but this is what you are promoting as an advantage.
As for the luck aspects, it is no different than any brute force method but in reality you are already promoting this since you never suggested putting a limit on deaths or a maximum time limit as part of the clear requirement. A player can literally play as much as they want and use luck to help them from time to time just to clear within the week. The point being that a player that spends 8 hours a day brute forcing the arena is not more skilled than someone that has 2 hours a day to play but is far more knowledgable about the game. Why shold a brute force approach have more chance to clear the arena than someone that is knowledgable but just lacks time to play?
For you to claim that the save function makes the learning process disappear is pure fallacy. No one is asking for nerfs and no amount of luck will magically make an unskilled player clear the entire arena.Edited by Hiero_Glyph on 3 December 2015 17:592 -
Saltypretzels✭✭✭✭Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progressSaltypretzels wrote: »
Whoops, didn't even see that other person grilling you on this until now.
But I saw your rebuttal. You are wrong. You should just not comment on the whole kids thing because you don't understand.1 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭And that is all you need. One hour, practice, and apply experience gained on following runs. Being able to clear it within a reasonable amount of time is part of the challenge and forces the playerbase to actually learn and improve.
And this is why you simply don't get it. The fact your using the word force and playerbase in the same sentence seals the deal that you simply don't get it.
Completing it in one sitting or completing it in various small sittings in small chunks have no direct correlation to skill.
On the contrary sociological, and many independent studies done by government and Fortune 500 companies show employees who are taught new skills in "small sample sizes" instead of large doses actually learn more, are more productive, and get a grasp on the said skill much faster then those who had the whole thing crammed down their throat.
Be honest here, this has NOTHING to do with learning or improving......if you actually cared about the player base "learning and improving" you would know the success rates are much higher in those that start a problem, work on it for awhile, and come back to it later have far higher success rates then those who are forced to do it all in one sitting...there are decades of research to back up these claims.
http://web.williams.edu/Psychology/Faculty/Kornell/Publications/Kornell.2009b.pdf
http://www.apa.org/gradpsych/2011/11/study-smart.aspx
Decades of research have demonstrated that spacing out study sessions over a longer period of time improves long-term memory. In other words, if you have 12 hours to spend on a subject, it's better to study it for three hours each week for four weeks than to cram all 12 hours into week four.
And for the most part, the more time you take between study sessions, the better off you are — at least within the time limits of an academic semester.
Do you really want to continue down this path of cramming everything into one sitting is more effective then spacing out the sessions into smaller pieces? decades of research the American Psychological Associoation says you are flat out wrong, but im sure you think you know more about how people learn the the professionals who have been studying it for well over a half century
These arguments you guys have put forth against a save feature are utter nonsense, decades of study says they are nonsense, accredited and recognized psychological and government organizations that have researched such claims over the last half century have proven that that they are nonsense.
Just stop, you guys think everyone should have to complete it the way you did, because you feel entitled and think its unfair that anyone else have or get a different way of doing it, because anyone who can't do something the same way you can is obviously inferior in some way and needs to "git gud" or whatever other nonsense term folks want to throw around these days.
Challenges should be "voluntary" not forced, however these challenges are forced because the end game gear is hidden behind them, if you don't want such a save feature put on the Vet version, then let the Vet16 gear and Maelstrom Weapons drop from the normal version then and you can save your precious Vet MA....of course we all know you wouldn't like that either...how dare a filthy casual get their hands on such a thing am i rite? LOL
Its so easy to see through this nonsense, thankfully i don't need the Arean because it offers no gear i can use, but what i see here is just rich! LOL!
carry on Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak7 -
Asherons_Call✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progressI haven't yet delved into maelstrom because I heard the rewards do not scale to the effort, but yes if it is taking people several hours to complete then there needs to be at least one checkpoint halfway through0 -
Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progressI think the votes are and will continue in the future in favor of the request in this thread.I personally wont allow this request to just die and be forgotten for the sake of the game and enjoyment of the majority of players.I suggest others in favor of a save feature do the same.Keep posting here or open other discussions that relate to the topic and in a serous manner let ZOS what the majority of players desire.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror are you guys aware of this thread and its reasonable request? Are you guys ok on just a handful of players experiencing vMA?Edited by vladimilianoub17_ESO1 on 3 December 2015 18:281 -
Morbash✭✭✭✭Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progressYes, there should be a save feature. The ability to save progress doesn't diminish the difficulty of vMA. Nothing about a save feature changes how hard mobs hit nor does it have any effect on the arena's mechanics. Some people can't nor should they be required to sit in front of a computer for countless hours just to complete content. I suppose we should also have to reach Grand Overlord in one sitting because if we don't "it's a L2P issue."
With that being said, I do agree with the notion that using the save feature should incur a penalty of some sort. Whether the penalty involves disabling the leaderboards or a lower score, I'll leave that for ZOS to decide.Edited by Morbash on 3 December 2015 20:25"War doesn't build character; it reveals it."2 -
asneakybanana✭✭✭✭✭No, Vet Maelstrom should be reset if you leave for more than 15 min (as is currently the case).Honestly the arena doesnt really take a lot of skill to complete. Of course if you go in blind its going to be rough but if you take your time before going in and do your homework by watching other people's videos and tutorials of how to clear then you will have a much easier time working through it. First clears should not take over 4 hours anymore due to the amount of information out there and people willing to help you out. I am going to have to agree with dymence and nifty that the more you work on the starting rounds the easier they will become therefore the faster you can run through those and the more time can be spent on later progression. This is how progression in MMOs work. You get better and better at the stuff youve already dont and then can focus more on the new challenges ahead of you. You shouldnt be able to just skip the stuff you've already done.Asneakybanana AD DK Former emperor of Chrysamere and Chillrend. World first hardmode Hel'ra and Quake con winner (Alliance rank 25)Sweat Squad
Asneakyhabenero EP DK Former emperor of Thornblade, Haderus. World first vMA Dk clear (Alliance rank 39)
Asneakycucumber EP Sorc Former empress of Blackwater Bay and Trueflame (Alliance rank 32)
Asneakypineapple EP Temp Former empress of Azuras Star and Haderus (Alliance rank 22)
Asneakypickle EP NB Former empress of Trueflame (Alliance rank 47)
Crowned 27x on 12 different campaign cycles | 200M+ AP earned
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609k Mag Sorc vMA
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