Should Vet Maelstrom have some type of SAVE function?

Morbash

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

Nifty2g wrote: »

@DeusAres So ZOS is basically relying on player fatigue to artificially inflate the difficulty of their content? Pathetic.

How in the world did you come to that conclusion, I will never understand. Everyone in here is basically saying to take it slow and not spend 5 hour sessions in there at once. The first complete you should never spend that amount of time in there, many players do then they talk about how long it is and freak everyone out.
From what I just quoted you sounds like you are too used to facerolling VR12/14 trials.

Taking it slow doesn't allow those with a limited amount of time to complete the dungeon nor does it allow them to learn anything, hence the call for a save feature. If a save feature existed, then that would allow players with a limited amount of time to eventually learn the dungeon.

So ZOS is basically relying on player fatigue to artificially inflate the difficulty of their content? Pathetic.

The quote above was a rhetorical question aimed at Artemis' post quoted below.

It is a well-known fact that the longer you perform some task (in this case - being focused and avoiding making mistakes), the harder this task becomes. If you have to take 5 hours of Quantum Mechanics a week, it is easier to break the material in 5 sessions rather than taking 1 5-hour session...

Those advocating "No" seem to be reiterating the same point: "A save feature would take away from vMA's challenge." If this is true, then my point and Jura23's post concerning poorly designed content is spot on.

Also, I've only ran one trial since I started playing ESO. Please stay on-topic. What I have or haven't "facerolled" is entirely irrelevant to this thread.

TiberX

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

A saved progress should grant a final score of 1 and no Maelstrom weapon at the end. I think that is satisfactory for all.

Morbash

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

TiberX wrote: »

A saved progress should grant a final score of 1 and no Maelstrom weapon at the end. I think that is satisfactory for all.

RNG is bad enough as is. Maelstrom weapons and other loot should continue dropping at their normal rates. I do agree with the idea of a leaderboard penalty. However, I think it should be disabled entirely for those that choose to save their progress. I can see how a save feature would undermine the whole point of a leaderboard. Those who complete vMA faster should be awarded better scores. If it's a race, you can't pause mid-stride.

Venomback

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

ZOS, can we get some official input in this?

Someone already mentioned before that Someone from ZOS already explained why there is no save function. Can we get that reason stated again here on this post and any guidance on if any changes are planned?

Venomback

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

bump for the same question.

Artis

DeusAres wrote: »

So ZOS is basically relying on player fatigue to artificially inflate the difficulty of their content? Pathetic.

May as well give the mobs more HP and include more one-shot mechanics.

If you're going to create difficult content, at least make the difficulty genuine and interesting. The aforementioned methods are overused and are simply B-O-R-I-N-G.

However, no one has noticed yet, that adding a save button as is gives the same reward for different difficulties. This is plain unfair. Also, makes master weapons to easy to get if a player can start last rounds fresh.

The ability to save would obviously be available to everyone. How does that make it "unfair?"

P.S. SHADOW2KK and other parents and committed in real life people... I spend quite a bit of time just reading this and a long post takes 10+ mins to write....

So why don't you to vMA and practice while you have time, instead of wasting this time on forums?

Because 10 minutes ≠ 2-4 hours. And guess what...the forums have this handy "Save Draft" feature that allows me to tend to IRL matters if I need to do so. I'm not required to read this entire thread or write a response in one sitting. Your logic falls short.

1. It's not about fatigue. It's about an ability to CONSISTENTLY do what you need to do and make no mistake during a long period of time.
2. Of course it is unfair. Do you even logic lol? How does it matter that anyone can save? What matters is that there will be players who won't save and those who will. The latter ones will complete vMA at a higher difficulty level compared to the former ones. Therefore they deserve a better reward.
3. Ok my argument still holds. Don't see how save draft or 10mins are relevant here. You only have 10 mins? Go practice. At first you complete 1 wave, after a few 10-min runs you will complete 2 full rounds. Same with the entire thing. You already know that you are supposed to complete it in 1 hour 30mins. So don't complain if you don't have that much. And if you do, but not too much more - ok, just play for 1h30min. At first you won't complete arena, but you will complete rounds faster and faster and at some point will be able to complete the entire thing in time. That's progress.

Jura23 wrote: »

Still doest change my opinion and here is why: You may be right its harder, in a way, with no save, but I still dont think it makes you a better player simply because the "harder" part lies outside the game, not inside the game as it should.

When the only factor preventing casuals from completing the arena lies outside the game, then its not hardcore content, its just poorly designed content. I would probably understand more this kind of challenge if this was e-sport. But its not. Its just regular MMO. And vet content in ESO was always meants for casuals, otherwise they wouldnt be nerfing vet dungeons left and right. And this wouldnt even be nerf in difficluty (of the content itself), it would be just simple quality of life improvment.

From their reasoning on this and not just this I have usually feeling like they have in fact no idea what they are doing, they just do something random and hope it will be right.

And again. You can't be serious. You admit it's harder, still don't admit the players who can do harder content are better...
They are better BY DEFINITION: they are able to make no mistakes for longer periods of time! How can't you see that??
The difficulty IS inside the game! You need to not make mistakes consistently, not just pass some round due to luck that will help you to survive one difficult place once.

E.g. Manticore fight when it was end-game. An average group had to do portal-phase and "popcorns" multiple times and, in a way, prove that they can consistently survive mechanics, no matter which players get sucked down in the portal. It is possible to ignore that mechanics, however, if it only popped once (say boss has less health or he simply only does that phase once).
So here you have it.

Now about casuals. ZOS already said that vMA is designed for ~1h30mins. So if you don't have that much - don't even complain. If you do - play for that much. You will complete rounds faster and faster and at some point will complete the entire thing. It's no one's problem that you are casual. It simply means that you will complete vMA later than non-casuals, which is expected since you invest less effort/time.
p.s. Where were your complains about vet dsa which took about 1 hour of real time? No one complained even though there you need to find 3 more people able to commit that much time at the same time. So way harder than vMA logistically. Still, so much noise about a SOLO dungeons that's not going anywhere and you can run it whenever YOU have time and don't need to wait/look for anyone else.

Taking it slow doesn't allow those with a limited amount of time to complete the dungeon nor does it allow them to learn anything, hence the call for a save feature. If a save feature existed, then that would allow players with a limited amount of time to eventually learn the dungeon.

Yes it does. How about you do it first before saying? A lot of people completed it namely like that. Just playing a couple of hours and getting further and further. No one should expect to complete vMA on their first run.

DeusAres wrote: »

Exactly. Well said.

facepalm. Not well at all. It's funny how you refuse to see that it's not about fatigue - it's about being able to consistently play with no mistakes. That's why some players complete vMA in a bit more than an hour and others spend 10 hours. Once you can be a good player and make no mistakes = it takes less time.
p.s. Of course, some mechanics in round 6 and 7 are impossible to react to, but that's another story.

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

And I am answerable to you how?, what right do you have to tell us to go to VMA?, none.

You got your opinion, I got mine, and I have been busy past few days and not read latest replies to this ongoing thread.

And why do I want to go and spend hours and hours practising VMA?, I got other priorities, in game and in real life, I and many others just want a save function in VMA, that is all.

Plus got to last arena anyways before I crashed.

Lolwut? What right do I have to tell you go to vma? So you don't want to practice and do vma? But want completion and rewards? You don't ask to help you to complete it, but ask for the same rewards that players that are better than you have? Here's the crux of this topic.
You don't want to put effort in, want it both easier for you and with the same rewards as a more difficult version.

Dark_Aether

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

Personofsecrets wrote: »

No, the developers designed it to not have a save function. All players need to adapt.

Stop with that already. When the majority ask for a feature, the developers are the ones to adapt to satisfy customers.

KewaG

No, Vet Maelstrom should be reset if you leave for more than 15 min (as is currently the case).

Nifty2g wrote: »

They explained on eso Live why it doesn't, I agree with them

But that said there should be an option to do so but it doesn't grant you a leaderboard spot

I can definitely agree with this. If you're just trying to complete the content then yes. If you are going for a leader board run then no.

Stanko

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

KewaG wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

They explained on eso Live why it doesn't, I agree with them

But that said there should be an option to do so but it doesn't grant you a leaderboard spot

I can definitely agree with this. If you're just trying to complete the content then yes. If you are going for a leader board run then no.

Out of the 14% that are against a SAVE function, a substantial portion are not opposed as long as the leaderboard is disabled upon saving. So, we have close to 100% agreement that Vet Maelstrom should have a SAVE feature of some type.

We already have a SAVE feature for non-vet Maelstrom. How hard is it to implement the same thing for Vet Maelstrom?

Anyone at ZOS listening? This is a serious issue for those that are playing PVE end-game.

ragespell

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

A save feature would come in handy for all those people without much free time, or people who plays an underperforming class (templar and dk), or people who plays an underperforming roles (tank and healer).

There is not a single argument not to implement a save feature, beside leaderboard.
Make it so that only the players who finish the arena in one go are eligible for the leaderboard.

asneakybanana

No, Vet Maelstrom should be reset if you leave for more than 15 min (as is currently the case).

ragespell wrote: »

A save feature would come in handy for all those people without much free time, or people who plays an underperforming class (templar and dk), or people who plays an underperforming roles (tank and healer).

There is not a single argument not to implement a save feature, beside leaderboard.
Make it so that only the players who finish the arena in one go are eligible for the leaderboard.

They should have a lesser chance at getting a maelstrom weapon as well. Instead of maybe 50% or whatever it is now it goes to 25% to really reward the players capable of going in and finishing in 1 shot.

Jura23

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

asneakybanana wrote: »

ragespell wrote: »

A save feature would come in handy for all those people without much free time, or people who plays an underperforming class (templar and dk), or people who plays an underperforming roles (tank and healer).

There is not a single argument not to implement a save feature, beside leaderboard.
Make it so that only the players who finish the arena in one go are eligible for the leaderboard.

They should have a lesser chance at getting a maelstrom weapon as well. Instead of maybe 50% or whatever it is now it goes to 25% to really reward the players capable of going in and finishing in 1 shot.

If this would be what it takes to reach the compromise, why not.

ragespell

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

Jura23 wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

ragespell wrote: »

A save feature would come in handy for all those people without much free time, or people who plays an underperforming class (templar and dk), or people who plays an underperforming roles (tank and healer).

There is not a single argument not to implement a save feature, beside leaderboard.
Make it so that only the players who finish the arena in one go are eligible for the leaderboard.

They should have a lesser chance at getting a maelstrom weapon as well. Instead of maybe 50% or whatever it is now it goes to 25% to really reward the players capable of going in and finishing in 1 shot.

If this would be what it takes to reach the compromise, why not.

Actually, only a little minority don't want the save function. I think not to be eligible for the leaderboard should be enough

Jura23

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

ragespell wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

ragespell wrote: »

A save feature would come in handy for all those people without much free time, or people who plays an underperforming class (templar and dk), or people who plays an underperforming roles (tank and healer).

There is not a single argument not to implement a save feature, beside leaderboard.
Make it so that only the players who finish the arena in one go are eligible for the leaderboard.

They should have a lesser chance at getting a maelstrom weapon as well. Instead of maybe 50% or whatever it is now it goes to 25% to really reward the players capable of going in and finishing in 1 shot.

If this would be what it takes to reach the compromise, why not.

Actually, only a little minority don't want the save function. I think not to be eligible for the leaderboard should be enough

I didnt check the poll for a while... now I did. Seems like a nobrainer.

SHADOW2KK

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

asneakybanana wrote: »

ragespell wrote: »

A save feature would come in handy for all those people without much free time, or people who plays an underperforming class (templar and dk), or people who plays an underperforming roles (tank and healer).

There is not a single argument not to implement a save feature, beside leaderboard.
Make it so that only the players who finish the arena in one go are eligible for the leaderboard.

They should have a lesser chance at getting a maelstrom weapon as well. Instead of maybe 50% or whatever it is now it goes to 25% to really reward the players capable of going in and finishing in 1 shot.

That is fair actually.

SHADOW2KK

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

Artemis wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

So ZOS is basically relying on player fatigue to artificially inflate the difficulty of their content? Pathetic.

May as well give the mobs more HP and include more one-shot mechanics.

If you're going to create difficult content, at least make the difficulty genuine and interesting. The aforementioned methods are overused and are simply B-O-R-I-N-G.

However, no one has noticed yet, that adding a save button as is gives the same reward for different difficulties. This is plain unfair. Also, makes master weapons to easy to get if a player can start last rounds fresh.

The ability to save would obviously be available to everyone. How does that make it "unfair?"

P.S. SHADOW2KK and other parents and committed in real life people... I spend quite a bit of time just reading this and a long post takes 10+ mins to write....

So why don't you to vMA and practice while you have time, instead of wasting this time on forums?

Because 10 minutes ≠ 2-4 hours. And guess what...the forums have this handy "Save Draft" feature that allows me to tend to IRL matters if I need to do so. I'm not required to read this entire thread or write a response in one sitting. Your logic falls short.

1. It's not about fatigue. It's about an ability to CONSISTENTLY do what you need to do and make no mistake during a long period of time.
2. Of course it is unfair. Do you even logic lol? How does it matter that anyone can save? What matters is that there will be players who won't save and those who will. The latter ones will complete vMA at a higher difficulty level compared to the former ones. Therefore they deserve a better reward.
3. Ok my argument still holds. Don't see how save draft or 10mins are relevant here. You only have 10 mins? Go practice. At first you complete 1 wave, after a few 10-min runs you will complete 2 full rounds. Same with the entire thing. You already know that you are supposed to complete it in 1 hour 30mins. So don't complain if you don't have that much. And if you do, but not too much more - ok, just play for 1h30min. At first you won't complete arena, but you will complete rounds faster and faster and at some point will be able to complete the entire thing in time. That's progress.

Jura23 wrote: »

Still doest change my opinion and here is why: You may be right its harder, in a way, with no save, but I still dont think it makes you a better player simply because the "harder" part lies outside the game, not inside the game as it should.

When the only factor preventing casuals from completing the arena lies outside the game, then its not hardcore content, its just poorly designed content. I would probably understand more this kind of challenge if this was e-sport. But its not. Its just regular MMO. And vet content in ESO was always meants for casuals, otherwise they wouldnt be nerfing vet dungeons left and right. And this wouldnt even be nerf in difficluty (of the content itself), it would be just simple quality of life improvment.

From their reasoning on this and not just this I have usually feeling like they have in fact no idea what they are doing, they just do something random and hope it will be right.

And again. You can't be serious. You admit it's harder, still don't admit the players who can do harder content are better...
They are better BY DEFINITION: they are able to make no mistakes for longer periods of time! How can't you see that??
The difficulty IS inside the game! You need to not make mistakes consistently, not just pass some round due to luck that will help you to survive one difficult place once.

E.g. Manticore fight when it was end-game. An average group had to do portal-phase and "popcorns" multiple times and, in a way, prove that they can consistently survive mechanics, no matter which players get sucked down in the portal. It is possible to ignore that mechanics, however, if it only popped once (say boss has less health or he simply only does that phase once).
So here you have it.

Now about casuals. ZOS already said that vMA is designed for ~1h30mins. So if you don't have that much - don't even complain. If you do - play for that much. You will complete rounds faster and faster and at some point will complete the entire thing. It's no one's problem that you are casual. It simply means that you will complete vMA later than non-casuals, which is expected since you invest less effort/time.
p.s. Where were your complains about vet dsa which took about 1 hour of real time? No one complained even though there you need to find 3 more people able to commit that much time at the same time. So way harder than vMA logistically. Still, so much noise about a SOLO dungeons that's not going anywhere and you can run it whenever YOU have time and don't need to wait/look for anyone else.

Taking it slow doesn't allow those with a limited amount of time to complete the dungeon nor does it allow them to learn anything, hence the call for a save feature. If a save feature existed, then that would allow players with a limited amount of time to eventually learn the dungeon.

Yes it does. How about you do it first before saying? A lot of people completed it namely like that. Just playing a couple of hours and getting further and further. No one should expect to complete vMA on their first run.

DeusAres wrote: »

Exactly. Well said.

facepalm. Not well at all. It's funny how you refuse to see that it's not about fatigue - it's about being able to consistently play with no mistakes. That's why some players complete vMA in a bit more than an hour and others spend 10 hours. Once you can be a good player and make no mistakes = it takes less time.
p.s. Of course, some mechanics in round 6 and 7 are impossible to react to, but that's another story.

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

And I am answerable to you how?, what right do you have to tell us to go to VMA?, none.

You got your opinion, I got mine, and I have been busy past few days and not read latest replies to this ongoing thread.

And why do I want to go and spend hours and hours practising VMA?, I got other priorities, in game and in real life, I and many others just want a save function in VMA, that is all.

Plus got to last arena anyways before I crashed.

Lolwut? What right do I have to tell you go to vma? So you don't want to practice and do vma? But want completion and rewards? You don't ask to help you to complete it, but ask for the same rewards that players that are better than you have? Here's the crux of this topic.
You don't want to put effort in, want it both easier for you and with the same rewards as a more difficult version.

Yet again, another brainless response to what I said, try reading my earlier posts then come back.

I have never ever said I wanted it easier, learn to read, thanks.

And I think I know what I meant way more better than you, and also, my earlier statements on this subject clarifies it beyond a doubt.

ZOS_GinaBruno

We understand that it’s frustrating that you’re unable to save your progress in Veteran Maelstrom Arena. This is actually due to the leaderboards and your score – currently, there’s no way to leave the area and come back without it affecting your score for the leaderboards, and any sort of fix we’ve investigated to decouple your progression from the leaderboard is actually much more complex to implement than it may seem. We are still exploring potential options, though.

Personofsecrets

No, Vet Maelstrom should be reset if you leave for more than 15 min (as is currently the case).

People who want a save function should have to pay extra gold to play in arena. It should cost like 20k gold to save.

Mujuro

I understand why people would want a save function for vMA, particularly when learning the encounters, etc. That said, I also understand the need to preserve leaderboard integrity, as well as achievements and loot for those who've completed vMA "as intended." So here's a potential compromise: ZOS would implement a save function, with the following caveats/limitations:

• If the save function isn't used, vMA would be as it is currently in all aspects.
• If the save function IS used, from that point FORWARD, any loot drops would be the same as if in nMA, and no achievements would be awarded on completion.

Iyas

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

Ah the typical zos answer to a request from the community. Its technical not possible but were working on something. Soon

Personofsecrets

No, Vet Maelstrom should be reset if you leave for more than 15 min (as is currently the case).

If people use the save function, then there shouldn't be loot at all...

WebBull

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We understand that it’s frustrating that you’re unable to save your progress in Veteran Maelstrom Arena. This is actually due to the leaderboards and your score – currently, there’s no way to leave the area and come back without it affecting your score for the leaderboards, and any sort of fix we’ve investigated to decouple your progression from the leaderboard is actually much more complex to implement than it may seem. We are still exploring potential options, though.

A fraction of that $1m you are giving away would like have not made a fix for this so complex.

Greiver

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

I say yes, and if used, should remove any chance of being on a leaderboard.

Makkir

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We understand that it’s frustrating that you’re unable to save your progress in Veteran Maelstrom Arena. This is actually due to the leaderboards and your score – currently, there’s no way to leave the area and come back without it affecting your score for the leaderboards, and any sort of fix we’ve investigated to decouple your progression from the leaderboard is actually much more complex to implement than it may seem. We are still exploring potential options, though.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Would it be easier to just disallow those utilizing a Save function to be included in leaderboard scores? Maybe a pop window warning the user that saving progress will disable their score from the leaderboard....I really don't think you will find a single soul on here who will disagree with this.

Dagoth_Rac

There should have been a Practice Mode. Pick an Arena, teleport straight there. As soon as it finishes, it restarts and loops endlessly until you leave. No XP, no loot, no armor damage, no score. It would just be practice, like the name implies. Having to grind through earlier rounds just to get to the round you are currently stuck on is really discouraging. It is just a long, lonely slog. Like, do I really want to put up with what starts to feel like a 45 minute trash pull just to get to the boss/round where I am currently stuck?

Ruben

No, Vet Maelstrom should be reset if you leave for more than 15 min (as is currently the case).

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We understand that it’s frustrating that you’re unable to save your progress in Veteran Maelstrom Arena. This is actually due to the leaderboards and your score – currently, there’s no way to leave the area and come back without it affecting your score for the leaderboards, and any sort of fix we’ve investigated to decouple your progression from the leaderboard is actually much more complex to implement than it may seem. We are still exploring potential options, though.

Can't it be made so you automatically lose your score and cannot rank anymore? Maybe just add a 0 multiplier instead of removing the instance.

I know I wouldn't mind about the score if I had to leave for a while because I had to do something else, at least I'd still have the final chest.

ChuckyPayne

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We understand that it’s frustrating that you’re unable to save your progress in Veteran Maelstrom Arena. This is actually due to the leaderboards and your score – currently, there’s no way to leave the area and come back without it affecting your score for the leaderboards, and any sort of fix we’ve investigated to decouple your progression from the leaderboard is actually much more complex to implement than it may seem. We are still exploring potential options, though.

Easy way, If someone use save option, then no leatherboard.
2 information need to store,
- is it a saved mode?
- what is the last finished stage.
- or maybe +1 previous stages was without die

Content is too difficult to me, I have no time to sacrifice my time for suffer. If there would be a save method I would play maelstrom arena. I do not care leaderboards or gear grind high-end gear contents, I would like to play and enjoy without much suffer, and a litle bit taste new contents. I did it in normal mode, I read and heard from others how much suffer: repair gold + soul gems + nervousness. I choosed, no thank you, I skip it.

To me a saved method would be an awesome feature.

Sharkano

I think they must have a save function, if for no other reason than to protect themselves from litigation risk over creating a mandated marathon in front of the computer. However, I find it hard to believe that making it so that if you use the save function your name will not appear on the leaderboards for that week could really be that frigging hard.

danno8

Yes, players should have the ability to SAVE progress

The challenge of vMSA is nothing to me next to the challenge of stringing together several hours uninterrupted to learn the thing.

It is the main reason why I have not gone back in since week one, post-Wrothgar.

I don't understand (barring programming difficulties) why the timer would not start and stop at the beginning and end of each arena. Who gives a *bleep* if someone leaves at the end of round 5 then comes back 2 days later to finish up rounds 6-9? It is the "In combat" time that matters, not how fast you can jam yourself into the portal to start the next round.

Attackopsn

I think that it should ask you before you begin whether or not you would like to save at any point, and if you do, you shouldn't be able to earn loot or receive a score