Fights are Endless in Non-Vet PvP Right Now

CP5

Back again, after a few more crashes. Seems server stability is bad, least on my end. I did see a fight outside of alessia but the ep in the keep seemed to not be worried at all that the keep was flagged, and I did see a few people die, but right now I have no idea how. Also I tried the sorc's pets since they can apparently resist damage a bit more, but my twilight would literally vanish within 3 seconds of me letting it go and fight... Overall i'm not impressed, hopefully things change for the better.

MrGrimey

The damage reduction was too much for vet pvp as well... They really should have tested 35% reduced damage instead of 50%

NGP

That makes it a perfect practice ground!

NGP

jaaf wrote: »

This. The Battle Spirit change needs to be reverted in Blackwater or no one will play there.

On the contrary, I think I finally have somewhere to practice my pvp skills.

Forztr

The easy fix is to make the battle level stats sensible.The default stats bear no resemblence to a sensible build. It's all health and very little else. They should weight the stats based on how you have your attribute points set give you a little more regen and a little more spell/weapon power.

zornyan

NGP wrote: »

jaaf wrote: »

This. The Battle Spirit change needs to be reverted in Blackwater or no one will play there.

On the contrary, I think I finally have somewhere to practice my pvp skills.

But you don't, its not practising if your target never dies, it's not practising if you can't actually find out a burst combo.

There's only 3 things you need to pvp in ESO.

A strong burst rotation / opening rotation

A strong heal / defense rotation

A way of escaping to reset the Bartle.

You won't be able to test 2 of these things. Not to mention the second you go into proper pvp and get one shot you'll realise the difference.

zornyan

Forztr wrote: »

The easy fix is to make the battle level stats sensible.The default stats bear no resemblence to a sensible build. It's all health and very little else. They should weight the stats based on how you have your attribute points set give you a little more regen and a little more spell/weapon power.

I agree, the pools are a little weird imo, massive massive health, but tiny magika and stam, with poor regen stats. Hell only 8k armor??

It needs to be something like.

15k Base for all stats + 100 per attribute point

Light armour piece 300 per piece

Medium armor 500 per piece

Heavy armour 700 per piece

Green gear +2% to stats, blue + 3%, purple + 4 and gold +5

It means you won't have op builds, but tanks can be true tanks (not have many dps options) and it should make builds more unique

NGP

zornyan wrote: »

NGP wrote: »

jaaf wrote: »

This. The Battle Spirit change needs to be reverted in Blackwater or no one will play there.

On the contrary, I think I finally have somewhere to practice my pvp skills.

But you don't, its not practising if your target never dies, it's not practising if you can't actually find out a burst combo.

There's only 3 things you need to pvp in ESO.

A strong burst rotation / opening rotation

A strong heal / defense rotation

A way of escaping to reset the Bartle.

You won't be able to test 2 of these things. Not to mention the second you go into proper pvp and get one shot you'll realise the difference.

That's where I came from

WillhelmBlack

Learn to 60k burst. Jokes. A lot of people said the patch wasn't ready, this is one of the reasons why. Huge parts of the game have gone live without any testing, 1.7 is a big update.

Asmael

zornyan wrote: »

Forztr wrote: »

The easy fix is to make the battle level stats sensible.The default stats bear no resemblence to a sensible build. It's all health and very little else. They should weight the stats based on how you have your attribute points set give you a little more regen and a little more spell/weapon power.

I agree, the pools are a little weird imo, massive massive health, but tiny magika and stam, with poor regen stats. Hell only 8k armor??

It needs to be something like.

15k Base for all stats + 100 per attribute point

Light armour piece 300 per piece

Medium armor 500 per piece

Heavy armour 700 per piece

Green gear +2% to stats, blue + 3%, purple + 4 and gold +5

It means you won't have op builds, but tanks can be true tanks (not have many dps options) and it should make builds more unique

Way to go if you want to screw up lower levels. Sorry, but no, right now being of higher level "only" gives you access to more skills and passives. You're basically granting them extra attribute points, and the benefit of gear.

BwB, pre 1.7, had its own balance and that was "fine", sure some people were pretty much unkillable (I'm one of those magicka DK vamp, sitting in the middle of 15+ guys taking a whole minute to bring down), but you always had options to finish them off in groups.

My home PC is downloading the patch right now, so couldn't test the current BwB, but reading that the dmg reduction has been applied there only confirms what I suspected.

I'd be curious as to how much is mitigated by the buff + Undeath + Mist form...

Alcast

Its everywhere, just stack health and the enemy will run out of resources before being able to kill you

zornyan

I didn't mean in that exact instance asamel, I meant builds should have more of a direction. Maybe defined by class then?

Say a sorc as a class would have 20k hp but get 20k magika, where as a templar would get 30k hp but only 15k magika etc

There's already a huge difference between a level 10-49 in bwb, with no passives you'll get around 29k hp, with a heavy armor templar you'll get 34 odd hp, or a stam Nb will go from the 1100 odd weapon damage up to around 2000-2500

I'm not saying give a huge bonus for levels, I mean give each class/build a way of being different, the whole gear thing is achievable for everyone, but could give a small bonus to stastics of damage/armor to make it worth while.

The difference between light / med / heavy needs to be shown, it's silly that a full heavy armor wearing tank has no more resistance than someone naked. Hell last night for fun me and a group all went naked, just because it was funny that our stats barely changed, with no difference to armor at all.

Mauz

zornyan wrote: »

I don't get it, it's 20% more mitigation and Shields plus healing got a nerf right? In bwb on ps4 it takes me on average 3-4 seconds to kill a player with my Nb. So with 20% more it's going to take me 5 seconds? That's hardly game changing....

The patch notes say plus 30% dmg mitigation, minus 35% healing, minus 50% shield strength. Dmg mitigation was 20% before so the dmg is actually reduces by 37,5%.

I did not download the patch yet but cause healing and shields have been reduced in about the same amount together with the changes for bolt escape, dodge and block I would expect fight to take longer and 1vX become more difficult. But they should definitely end. Maybe ZOS just forgot to implement the heal and shield reduction

zornyan

Aye something sounds wrong, I wouldn't expect fights to be much longer, average gank? 3-5 seconds pre patch, average 1 v 1 of say a templar vs dk tank? About 15 seconds maybe 20,

No fight should be taking more than 30 seconds ideally, with the reduced damage, although reduced healing should mean heal spammers/blockers/dodgers are removed from the equation.

Angarato

so now all the cp stacking *** will have to go do real pvp instead of ganking noobs in non-vet? on noes. the humanity!

Woman

Angarato wrote: »

so now all the cp stacking *** will have to go do real pvp instead of ganking noobs in non-vet? on noes. the humanity!

By "real PvP", do you mean new players being forced to zerg in order to kill CP stacked players? Because that's what's going on in BWB now because of this change.

zornyan

Angarato wrote: »

so now all the cp stacking *** will have to go do real pvp instead of ganking noobs in non-vet? on noes. the humanity!

Funny because I only have 30 CP, yet I gank juuuustt fine in bwb. Most people are dead before they can get up after falling off their horse.

Hell I'm gonna go gank mode for the next week just to *** people off lol

QuebraRegra

Woman wrote: »

Defialed wrote: »

Blackwater Blade was in it's own perfect state of Balance as far as battle level goes and I feel like it should be reverted back to it's original state.

Agreed. Blackwater was perfectly balanced in 1.6 asside from Nirn+ CP. No need to mess with something that was working

Exactly. This is gonna seriously make me put this game away for a while (my wife will thank ZOS for that).

Rune_Relic

So its not the non stop combat you loved.... its the winning ?

SturgeHammer

I didn't play a ton on BWB last night because I wanted to check out IC. I did, however, play enough realize IC wasn't a place I wanted to take my non-vets because of the exp gain and did enough PvP to get a good sense of what the OP is talking about. My lvl 16 Sorc went from dealing moderate damage and moderate survivability to no damage (<2k frags) and insane survivability with only Rapid Regen and No Damage Shields slotted. I'll get a chance to do some more non-vet tonight, but my first impression is that the recent changes have massively slowed down the pace of BWB combat and I didn't even think that was possible.

QuebraRegra

Rune_Relic wrote: »

So its not the non stop combat you loved.... its the winning ?

If I'm gonna die, I'd prefer it to be sub 30 seconds. I respawn, and come back with my "lessons learned". If every 1v1 iruns excess of 30 seconds it;s a snore.


http://freeradicalnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/nerf-sword.jpg

Robbmrp

Woman wrote: »

Unfortunately since there was no PTS testing for the non-vet campaign, current Blackwater is kind of a disaster. No one can be killed unless they are insanely targeted by 5+ people + siege, and I'm not discussing CP stacked or very skilled players. Fights in keeps just keep going on forever without any faction gaining ground and are feeling pointless. The reduced damage taken was needed for Vet PvP, but with Battle level we are already tanky enough.

TLDR: Combination of Battle Level + Reduced damage taken means everyone is immortal in Non-Vet PvP. This needs to be hotfixed.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Non Vet Campaigns didn't need the damage/healing/shield reduction done.....

The ONLY thing Non Vet Campaigns needed was the removal of Champion Points.

QuebraRegra

Robbmrp wrote: »

Woman wrote: »

Unfortunately since there was no PTS testing for the non-vet campaign, current Blackwater is kind of a disaster. No one can be killed unless they are insanely targeted by 5+ people + siege, and I'm not discussing CP stacked or very skilled players. Fights in keeps just keep going on forever without any faction gaining ground and are feeling pointless. The reduced damage taken was needed for Vet PvP, but with Battle level we are already tanky enough.

TLDR: Combination of Battle Level + Reduced damage taken means everyone is immortal in Non-Vet PvP. This needs to be hotfixed.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Non Vet Campaigns didn't need the damage/healing/shield reduction done.....

The ONLY thing Non Vet Campaigns needed was the removal of Champion Points.

This will not be popular, but I salute it...

mcurley

Robbmrp wrote: »

Woman wrote: »

Unfortunately since there was no PTS testing for the non-vet campaign, current Blackwater is kind of a disaster. No one can be killed unless they are insanely targeted by 5+ people + siege, and I'm not discussing CP stacked or very skilled players. Fights in keeps just keep going on forever without any faction gaining ground and are feeling pointless. The reduced damage taken was needed for Vet PvP, but with Battle level we are already tanky enough.

TLDR: Combination of Battle Level + Reduced damage taken means everyone is immortal in Non-Vet PvP. This needs to be hotfixed.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Non Vet Campaigns didn't need the damage/healing/shield reduction done.....

The ONLY thing Non Vet Campaigns needed was the removal of Champion Points.

Exactly this.

CP5

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

Woman wrote: »

Unfortunately since there was no PTS testing for the non-vet campaign, current Blackwater is kind of a disaster. No one can be killed unless they are insanely targeted by 5+ people + siege, and I'm not discussing CP stacked or very skilled players. Fights in keeps just keep going on forever without any faction gaining ground and are feeling pointless. The reduced damage taken was needed for Vet PvP, but with Battle level we are already tanky enough.

TLDR: Combination of Battle Level + Reduced damage taken means everyone is immortal in Non-Vet PvP. This needs to be hotfixed.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Non Vet Campaigns didn't need the damage/healing/shield reduction done.....

The ONLY thing Non Vet Campaigns needed was the removal of Champion Points.

This will not be popular, but I salute it...

I fail to see how that reply wouldn't be popular.

QuebraRegra

CP5 wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

Woman wrote: »

Unfortunately since there was no PTS testing for the non-vet campaign, current Blackwater is kind of a disaster. No one can be killed unless they are insanely targeted by 5+ people + siege, and I'm not discussing CP stacked or very skilled players. Fights in keeps just keep going on forever without any faction gaining ground and are feeling pointless. The reduced damage taken was needed for Vet PvP, but with Battle level we are already tanky enough.

TLDR: Combination of Battle Level + Reduced damage taken means everyone is immortal in Non-Vet PvP. This needs to be hotfixed.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Non Vet Campaigns didn't need the damage/healing/shield reduction done.....

The ONLY thing Non Vet Campaigns needed was the removal of Champion Points.

This will not be popular, but I salute it...

I fail to see how that reply wouldn't be popular.

It won't take long for the high CP buffed players who claim "skillz" to catch wind of this thread and start the "LEARN TO PLAY" responses while refuting that CP is a factor at all. Certainly there are expliot builds, and some gear imbalance as well, but these are far less a factor in NON VET.

CP5

QuebraRegra wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

Woman wrote: »

Unfortunately since there was no PTS testing for the non-vet campaign, current Blackwater is kind of a disaster. No one can be killed unless they are insanely targeted by 5+ people + siege, and I'm not discussing CP stacked or very skilled players. Fights in keeps just keep going on forever without any faction gaining ground and are feeling pointless. The reduced damage taken was needed for Vet PvP, but with Battle level we are already tanky enough.

TLDR: Combination of Battle Level + Reduced damage taken means everyone is immortal in Non-Vet PvP. This needs to be hotfixed.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Non Vet Campaigns didn't need the damage/healing/shield reduction done.....

The ONLY thing Non Vet Campaigns needed was the removal of Champion Points.

This will not be popular, but I salute it...

I fail to see how that reply wouldn't be popular.

It won't take long for the high CP buffed players who claim "skillz" to catch wind of this thread and start the "LEARN TO PLAY" responses while refuting that CP is a factor at all. Certainly there are expliot builds, and some gear imbalance as well, but these are far less a factor in NON VET.

Those players, last time I was on regularly, were a very small minority and most people on non-vet did so because they wanted to avoid lag or enjoyed the campaign itself.

zornyan

CP is the flavour of the month scape goat, I'm a console player, that has fought and beaten multiple pc transfers that had 200+ CP (I asked them because they actually accused ME or having thousands lol) I have a grand total of....30!

I had hate mail from a sorc that failed to gank me, saying I was a "pc transfer scrub that obviously had to transfer as I must have sucked on pc" when I said "how many do you have then" he replied with something like 239 or whatever.

I sent him a Screenshot of my 30, he didn't reply after that.....

I spent an entire day ganking in bwb on ps4 eu, I had zero issues killing anyone of any level in mostly under 6 seconds, only exception is a couple well played Dk's that took a good 30 seconds to bring down due to gdb and igneous spamming.

Anyway CP isn't the be all and end all, it's an excuse for bad players to blame the game, seriously someone doing 20% more damage than you is what means you suck? Not the fact that they are a better player? Or have more experience, or have spent time making gear..

No no no it.must be the CP!

Mojmir

zornyan wrote: »

CP is the flavour of the month scape goat, I'm a console player, that has fought and beaten multiple pc transfers that had 200+ CP (I asked them because they actually accused ME or having thousands lol) I have a grand total of....30!

I had hate mail from a sorc that failed to gank me, saying I was a "pc transfer scrub that obviously had to transfer as I must have sucked on pc" when I said "how many do you have then" he replied with something like 239 or whatever.

I sent him a Screenshot of my 30, he didn't reply after that.....

I spent an entire day ganking in bwb on ps4 eu, I had zero issues killing anyone of any level in mostly under 6 seconds, only exception is a couple well played Dk's that took a good 30 seconds to bring down due to gdb and igneous spamming.

Anyway CP isn't the be all and end all, it's an excuse for bad players to blame the game, seriously someone doing 20% more damage than you is what means you suck? Not the fact that they are a better player? Or have more experience, or have spent time making gear..

No no no it.must be the CP!

along those lines, it isnt about just how many stones, its also where you put them that counts, a solid build with good management can pull a davy and goliath.

QuebraRegra

CP5 wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

Woman wrote: »

Unfortunately since there was no PTS testing for the non-vet campaign, current Blackwater is kind of a disaster. No one can be killed unless they are insanely targeted by 5+ people + siege, and I'm not discussing CP stacked or very skilled players. Fights in keeps just keep going on forever without any faction gaining ground and are feeling pointless. The reduced damage taken was needed for Vet PvP, but with Battle level we are already tanky enough.

TLDR: Combination of Battle Level + Reduced damage taken means everyone is immortal in Non-Vet PvP. This needs to be hotfixed.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Non Vet Campaigns didn't need the damage/healing/shield reduction done.....

The ONLY thing Non Vet Campaigns needed was the removal of Champion Points.

This will not be popular, but I salute it...

I fail to see how that reply wouldn't be popular.

It won't take long for the high CP buffed players who claim "skillz" to catch wind of this thread and start the "LEARN TO PLAY" responses while refuting that CP is a factor at all. Certainly there are expliot builds, and some gear imbalance as well, but these are far less a factor in NON VET.

Those players, last time I was on regularly, were a very small minority and most people on non-vet did so because they wanted to avoid lag or enjoyed the campaign itself.

Oh granted that most come to play because frankly NON-VET is more fun (do a search, too many threads confirm this). Then ask yourself why is that?

The trouble is that every night I hear more and more players talking about how they are deciding to apply CPs to non-vet characters.