How many stamina nightblades....

ACHILLES 343i

will be switching to bow-sniping, or a magicka nightblade when UPDATE 7 rolls out?

Leandor

...or to templar? Jesus beam without nirnhoned will be completely ridiculous. I have had magicka templars kill me in one go from 100% to death with a single radiant while wearing two nirnhoned pieces. Granted, with 20k health and full medium, I am not very durable, but anyways...

*continues to level up templar*

Francescolg

Leandor wrote: »

...or to templar? Jesus beam without nirnhoned will be completely ridiculous. I have had magicka templars kill me in one go from 100% to death with a single radiant while wearing two nirnhoned pieces. Granted, with 20k health and full medium, I am not very durable, but anyways...

*continues to level up templar*

I will not flame although your post is full of misinformation:
- medium armor is not for magic resistances
- nirn on Medium/light does not make much sense, as the basis resis. level is low, so 25% are not as effective as on heavy (check char stats basic level)
- Jbeam does not work like you describe it

for details see older threads please

Leandor

Francescolg wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

...or to templar? Jesus beam without nirnhoned will be completely ridiculous. I have had magicka templars kill me in one go from 100% to death with a single radiant while wearing two nirnhoned pieces. Granted, with 20k health and full medium, I am not very durable, but anyways...

*continues to level up templar*

I will not flame although your post is full of misinformation:
- medium armor is not for magic resistances
- nirn on Medium/light does not make much sense, as the basis resis. level is low, so 25% are not as effective as on heavy (check char stats basic level)
- Jbeam does not work like you describe it

for details see older threads please

Mate, please.

1. Since the base armor values are used for both, physical and spell resist, a full set of medium armor even not considering nirnhoned currently provides more spell resist than a full set of light armor with all passives. Hence, medium armor is better than light armor for spell resist, and is only exceeded by heavy armor, which combines high base values with an increasing passive.
2. Nirnhoned currently is increasing resists based on total base spell resist a character has. The difference in spell resist for my two-pieces-of-nirn-wearing-medium-armor char between having those two pieces (18k spell resist) and not (11k spell resist) is huge and noticeable, even though the high prevalence of spell penetration may implicate otherwise.
3. The mentioned occurrence is a oft encountered practical experience. I do not really care whether it theoretically does not work like this, fact is that I have died to 22k radiant destruction from full health without anything else shown on the death recap. Yes, that means I do not know how to interrupt or purge, but the skill delivers this kind of performance irrespective of theory or your personal experience with it.

Cameron_Star

I'm a stamina nightblade. I haven't been keeping myself informed much with the upcoming update. Anyone care to politely explain why OP feels a magicka NB build would be better post update?

Minnesinger

I am going to keep my stamina nb as it is. At the same time, I have a magicka nb as well. Lets see how the thing will turn out. I am not too worried about 1.7 at the moment. If the rumours are true we will be testing it in PTS in the near future (today?).

Soulac

If you want to run around solo, trolling and bursting people in 1v1 or something go for Stamina.
With some champion points you can get enough Magicka to perm cast cloak etc. even as Stamina Build, the only difference are dmg shields like healing ward or Harness and better AoE burst dmg thanks t detonation.
In 1.7 I think there won't be much difference between Magicka and stamina, it will just depend on the situation.

Leandor

Soulac wrote: »

If you want to run around solo, trolling and bursting people in 1v1 or something go for Stamina.
With some champion points you can get enough Magicka to perm cast cloak etc. even as Stamina Build, the only difference are dmg shields like healing ward or Harness and better AoE burst dmg thanks t detonation.
In 1.7 I think there won't be much difference between Magicka and stamina, it will just depend on the situation.

How much is "some"? I have 250 now and can't do that, really. Not unless I put magicka reduction glyphs and hell of a lot of points into the magicka cost reduction perk.

Soulac

Leandor wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

If you want to run around solo, trolling and bursting people in 1v1 or something go for Stamina.
With some champion points you can get enough Magicka to perm cast cloak etc. even as Stamina Build, the only difference are dmg shields like healing ward or Harness and better AoE burst dmg thanks t detonation.
In 1.7 I think there won't be much difference between Magicka and stamina, it will just depend on the situation.

How much is "some"? I have 250 now and can't do that, really. Not unless I put magicka reduction glyphs and hell of a lot of points into the magicka cost reduction perk.

Enough to put around 25 points in Magicka Cost Reduction and 15 points in Magicka recovery.
Then you choose Atronach as your Mundus stone and use Tri or Magicka Potions.
I achieve 17 possible cloak casts per minute which is like every 3.5sec and nearly spammable.
I got 9.5k Magicka only but I never have any Magicka problems except cloak decides to break instantly three times.

Tankqull

Soulac wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

If you want to run around solo, trolling and bursting people in 1v1 or something go for Stamina.
With some champion points you can get enough Magicka to perm cast cloak etc. even as Stamina Build, the only difference are dmg shields like healing ward or Harness and better AoE burst dmg thanks t detonation.
In 1.7 I think there won't be much difference between Magicka and stamina, it will just depend on the situation.

How much is "some"? I have 250 now and can't do that, really. Not unless I put magicka reduction glyphs and hell of a lot of points into the magicka cost reduction perk.

Enough to put around 25 points in Magicka Cost Reduction and 15 points in Magicka recovery.
Then you choose Atronach as your Mundus stone and use Tri or Magicka Potions.
I achieve 17 possible cloak casts per minute which is like every 3.5sec and nearly spammable.
I got 9.5k Magicka only but I never have any Magicka problems except cloak decides to break instantly three times.

you do not even need to use the mundus, stam-magicareg buff food is enough with those CPs to spam cloak 8-10times if you havent escaped by then you will not with 20 further ones

Soulac

Tankqull wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

If you want to run around solo, trolling and bursting people in 1v1 or something go for Stamina.
With some champion points you can get enough Magicka to perm cast cloak etc. even as Stamina Build, the only difference are dmg shields like healing ward or Harness and better AoE burst dmg thanks t detonation.
In 1.7 I think there won't be much difference between Magicka and stamina, it will just depend on the situation.

How much is "some"? I have 250 now and can't do that, really. Not unless I put magicka reduction glyphs and hell of a lot of points into the magicka cost reduction perk.

Enough to put around 25 points in Magicka Cost Reduction and 15 points in Magicka recovery.
Then you choose Atronach as your Mundus stone and use Tri or Magicka Potions.
I achieve 17 possible cloak casts per minute which is like every 3.5sec and nearly spammable.
I got 9.5k Magicka only but I never have any Magicka problems except cloak decides to break instantly three times.

you do not even need to use the mundus, stam-magicareg buff food is enough with those CPs to spam cloak 8-10times if you havent escaped by then you will not with 20 further ones

8-10 times is not enough >:D

Tankqull

Soulac wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

If you want to run around solo, trolling and bursting people in 1v1 or something go for Stamina.
With some champion points you can get enough Magicka to perm cast cloak etc. even as Stamina Build, the only difference are dmg shields like healing ward or Harness and better AoE burst dmg thanks t detonation.
In 1.7 I think there won't be much difference between Magicka and stamina, it will just depend on the situation.

How much is "some"? I have 250 now and can't do that, really. Not unless I put magicka reduction glyphs and hell of a lot of points into the magicka cost reduction perk.

Enough to put around 25 points in Magicka Cost Reduction and 15 points in Magicka recovery.
Then you choose Atronach as your Mundus stone and use Tri or Magicka Potions.
I achieve 17 possible cloak casts per minute which is like every 3.5sec and nearly spammable.
I got 9.5k Magicka only but I never have any Magicka problems except cloak decides to break instantly three times.

you do not even need to use the mundus, stam-magicareg buff food is enough with those CPs to spam cloak 8-10times if you havent escaped by then you will not with 20 further ones

8-10 times is not enough >:D

if it is within 15sec it is but primarily because of - if you are not safe then you wont get safe anyway as sth bugs out again (where you can´t try to fall back to a slower rotation to maintain cloak aswell)

eliisra

Leandor wrote: »

...or to templar? Jesus beam without nirnhoned will be completely ridiculous. I have had magicka templars kill me in one go from 100% to death with a single radiant while wearing two nirnhoned pieces. Granted, with 20k health and full medium, I am not very durable, but anyways...
*continues to level up templar*

If you want a taste of the Cheese Beam, you better hurry and level that guy up before 1.7 lol.

They're nerfing Beam next patch. Will be like a normal execute now. The moderate dmg before the execute phase, will be nerfed into oblivion. So RIP abusing it on full health targets, forcing them down to execute range.

Francescolg wrote: »

- nirn on Medium/light does not make much sense, as the basis resis. level is low, so 25% are not as effective as on heavy (check char stats basic level)

Are you kidding? I have 45-50k spell resists right now while using a bathrobe. Does not make much sense?

Topic: I already changed back to magicka on NB. Cloak not breaking on pots sounds to good to be true. Also no more broken nirn, meaning the dmg reduction from Battle Spirit wont be noticeable for someone stacking magic dmg. You still hit hard. Buff to Proxi as a zerg busters, this also benefits magicka NB's loads, they have the best synergy with Detonation.

But I think stam/magicka NB will be pretty balanced. Stamina mele will still be awesome. I mean realistically you wont have to cloak more than 4-5 times, when nothing but AoE breaks it. Stamina can do that. While they still have amazing burst and ability to dodge more than any other build. Casual PvP'ers will also have access to Vigor now.

Jeckll

ACHILLES 343i wrote: »

will be switching to bow-sniping, or a magicka nightblade when UPDATE 7 rolls out?

No reason to switch. Just because other builds get some love doesnt make Melee Stamina bad all of a sudden. I run drinks anyways which enables me to use cloak often enough.

Spaming is never required, experienced players know what to cloak and how to manage their resources.

Soulac

Tankqull wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

If you want to run around solo, trolling and bursting people in 1v1 or something go for Stamina.
With some champion points you can get enough Magicka to perm cast cloak etc. even as Stamina Build, the only difference are dmg shields like healing ward or Harness and better AoE burst dmg thanks t detonation.
In 1.7 I think there won't be much difference between Magicka and stamina, it will just depend on the situation.

How much is "some"? I have 250 now and can't do that, really. Not unless I put magicka reduction glyphs and hell of a lot of points into the magicka cost reduction perk.

Enough to put around 25 points in Magicka Cost Reduction and 15 points in Magicka recovery.
Then you choose Atronach as your Mundus stone and use Tri or Magicka Potions.
I achieve 17 possible cloak casts per minute which is like every 3.5sec and nearly spammable.
I got 9.5k Magicka only but I never have any Magicka problems except cloak decides to break instantly three times.

you do not even need to use the mundus, stam-magicareg buff food is enough with those CPs to spam cloak 8-10times if you havent escaped by then you will not with 20 further ones

8-10 times is not enough >:D

if it is within 15sec it is but primarily because of - if you are not safe then you wont get safe anyway as sth bugs out again (where you can´t try to fall back to a slower rotation to maintain cloak aswell)

Don't underestimate my escape skills!

Kupoking

Leveling my nb for magika.

Guess my dk with still be stam.

Templar... I dont know what the *** is going on he might just go full healer...

Tankqull

Soulac wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

If you want to run around solo, trolling and bursting people in 1v1 or something go for Stamina.
With some champion points you can get enough Magicka to perm cast cloak etc. even as Stamina Build, the only difference are dmg shields like healing ward or Harness and better AoE burst dmg thanks t detonation.
In 1.7 I think there won't be much difference between Magicka and stamina, it will just depend on the situation.

How much is "some"? I have 250 now and can't do that, really. Not unless I put magicka reduction glyphs and hell of a lot of points into the magicka cost reduction perk.

Enough to put around 25 points in Magicka Cost Reduction and 15 points in Magicka recovery.
Then you choose Atronach as your Mundus stone and use Tri or Magicka Potions.
I achieve 17 possible cloak casts per minute which is like every 3.5sec and nearly spammable.
I got 9.5k Magicka only but I never have any Magicka problems except cloak decides to break instantly three times.

you do not even need to use the mundus, stam-magicareg buff food is enough with those CPs to spam cloak 8-10times if you havent escaped by then you will not with 20 further ones

8-10 times is not enough >:D

if it is within 15sec it is but primarily because of - if you are not safe then you wont get safe anyway as sth bugs out again (where you can´t try to fall back to a slower rotation to maintain cloak aswell)

Don't underestimate my escape skills!

i do not have seen them often enough - and died when you came back into the fight

it seems that we are arguing while saying the same - wich is rather useless.
you don´t need to be manaspeced to be able to escape with cloak (especially not after the 1.7 changes).

OdinForge

I've been trying to avoid going 2H/Bow, depending on the changes though it might really just become the most efficient way to do damage as a stamina NB.

I'm seeing a lot of people playing with magicka now. Purge + cloak gives magicka NB a slight advantage over stamina NB, i think in the next patch the FoTM is going to shift.

Francescolg

Leandor wrote: »

(...)Hence, medium armor is better than light armor for spell resist, and is only exceeded by heavy armor, which combines high base values with an increasing passive.

It is 75% of the heavy amor resistances.

Nirnhoned currently is increasing resists based on total base spell resist a character has. The difference in spell resist for my two-pieces-of-nirn-wearing-medium-armor char between having those two pieces (18k spell resist) and not (11k spell resist) is huge and noticeable, even though the high prevalence of spell penetration may implicate otherwise.

11k OR 18k basic magical resistances is still too low, given that the current "medium value" for spell penetration is 10-15k (without bigger efforts). So, every (average / ~200 CP) Sorc is running around with 10k+ penetration.
Your Nirnh. would only be good, IF the base value before you apply Nirnh is 20k or so, otherwise you need many more pieces of Nirnh but even then 11k basic resistances is low. It is basically as good as without any resistances (that will change soon, so we should not waste time discussing this --> 30k+ magic resistances are the way to go in 1.6/PvP=

So, it does not matter whether you take your low resistances now or after the patch, both are "basic/low" values, that are easily (!) bypassed with a little bit of spell penetration. The damage will stay as high as now after the next patch, because you already were at medium (wide spread) spell resistances values, not much will change for you.

I repeat that what you claim, about Radiant Destruction killing you in just one channeled cast (~4 sec), is false. I'll argue like every single NB in this forum against someone facing a 25k bow hit and posting a screenshot: "This was just an exception! TO do so, a Templar must give up everything and will be very squishy and he will die immediately, if you manage to attack him!" (see the "logic" but it worked since people started complaining about bow dmg in August 2014)

Btw, Jbeam is going to be nurfed in the next patch, so be happy

ACHILLES 343i

The main reason I figured many would switch (including myself) was the dodge-roll nerf. My stam NB as of now uses a 2h /1h+shield combo. I dislike ranged, always have - but I cannot see myself rushing into a mob of 10+ anymore without a consistent roll to escape (as I rarely use cloak besides to purge siege and cancel JB's / Meteor / Soul Assaults.)

Leandor

Francescolg wrote: »

It is 75% of the heavy amor resistances.

Medium is. Light is 25%. More numbers? None of these changes the fact that medium armor is actually better than light even considering the light armor passive.

Francescolg wrote: »

11k OR 18k basic magical resistances is still too low, given that the current "medium value" for spell penetration is 10-15k (without bigger efforts). So, every (average / ~200 CP) Sorc is running around with 10k+ penetration.
Your Nirnh. would only be good, IF the base value before you apply Nirnh is 20k or so, otherwise you need many more pieces of Nirnh but even then 11k basic resistances is low. It is basically as good as without any resistances (that will change soon, so we should not waste time discussing this --> 30k+ magic resistances are the way to go in 1.6/PvP=

So, it does not matter whether you take your low resistances now or after the patch, both are "basic/low" values, that are easily (!) bypassed with a little bit of spell penetration. The damage will stay as high as now after the next patch, because you already were at medium (wide spread) spell resistances values, not much will change for you.

Again, thank you for telling me that what I have experienced in game is wrong because the theory says differently. I know all of that. Still, since the majority of players is not up to their neck in theorycrafting and gearoptimizing, my measly, irrelevant 18k of spell resistance actually increase my average survival in Cyrodiil by a large amount.

With the nirnhoned change, I will have to have nirnhoned on all pieces to achieve the same or at least almost the same resistance that I have now. So in the future, even the non-optimized spell penetration from just using a sharpened weapon will be enough to reduce my mitigation to zero, as opposed to a medium optimized set of CP/equipment/passives as of currently.

Francescolg wrote: »

I repeat that what you claim, about Radiant Destruction killing you in just one channeled cast (~4 sec), is false. I'll argue like every single NB in this forum against someone facing a 25k bow hit: "This was just an exception! TO do so, a Templar must give up everything and will be very squishy and die immediately if you manage to attack him!"

The difference between cheesus beam and the example you have pulled would be the removal of softcaps. Nowadays, the Templar who can put down this kind of beam would also be sporting a healing output that can only be overcome by a burst that would kill him before he is able to start spamming his heals. Also, this kind of damage is encountered mostly from very very coordinated two- or three-player teams who are build exactly for this. If you have never encountered one of those teams, then you apparently enjoy running in a train more than I do.

You can say time and again that what I say is theoretically not possible. It does not change my past experiences.

Pobeda

jesus beam is channeling. In pvp. Worst kind of skill for pvp. It last 2.5 second and deal 10k total. (maybe about 13k if very very concentrat about damage, but make templar weak as glass). Big ticks only start when hp of target drop to 1/4 total hp. And even then it reduced by block and by nirn more then half. And shield prevent critical. As expensive channeling skill - it greatly reduce walking speed when activating. So you get slowmoving, interuptable, lowdps target. It can`t use cancel animation exploit when casting, it can`t heal or dps you another skill. I don`t get why so many crys about this skill. Yes it finisher, but only when you drop below 1/4 of you hp... NB can 1 hitkill take by combo insta skills using cancel animation macros. Dealing 20-35k in a second! Sorc can 1 shoot using crystal fragment+dawnbreaker macros whith cancel animation dealing from 20 to 50k damage only by this combionation less then a second.

ToRelax

Pobeda wrote: »

jesus beam is channeling. In pvp. Worst kind of skill for pvp. It last 2.5 second and deal 10k total. (maybe about 13k if very very concentrat about damage, but make templar weak as glass). Big ticks only start when hp of target drop to 1/4 total hp. And even then it reduced by block and by nirn more then half. And shield prevent critical. As expensive channeling skill - it greatly reduce walking speed when activating. So you get slowmoving, interuptable, lowdps target. It can`t use cancel animation exploit when casting, it can`t heal or dps you another skill. I don`t get why so many crys about this skill. Yes it finisher, but only when you drop below 1/4 of you hp... NB can 1 hitkill take by combo insta skills using cancel animation macros. Dealing 20-35k in a second! Sorc can 1 shoot using crystal fragment+dawnbreaker macros whith cancel animation dealing from 20 to 50k damage only by this combionation less then a second.

Because it's undodgeable and unlike Soul Assault, Purge doesn't really help.

Zsymon

To perm cast Cloak as a stamina build, "some CPs" aren't going to cut it. I tried this, and I put ALL my champion points into magicka cost reduction and magicka recovery, then I crafted a 5 piece medium Seducer set, used 3 magicka jewels with 3 spell cost glyphs, all of which severely nerfed my damage output and stamina sustain, and I still could not perm cast Cloak, I could cast it more often but I did run out of magicka after 15 seconds or so (out of combat). I used VR10 tri-stat drinks as well.

In fact, even a full-on magicka build will eventually run out of magicka casting Cloak every 3 seconds, the skill is that expensive, it will always cost more per second than you can recover, so it is entirely impossible with a stamina build, even if you sacrifice 80% of your weapon damage and 80% of your stamina sustain, like I did. All I had left was 18K stamina and 1600 weapon damage.

LatinLegacy

Will be staying with my stamina Nightblade. It is not the most optimal build being DW/DW but I enjoy the hell out of it in 1 v 1 encounters. So will stick with it for now.

Ezareth

OdinForge wrote: »

I've been trying to avoid going 2H/Bow, depending on the changes though it might really just become the most efficient way to do damage as a stamina NB.

I'm seeing a lot of people playing with magicka now. Purge + cloak gives magicka NB a slight advantage over stamina NB, i think in the next patch the FoTM is going to shift.

I don't see this as being the case personally. By the time you purge piercing mark my crit charge is on top of you with radiant magelight.

Also Vigor spam will be available to all and concealed weapon wont hit through dodge roll. Plus Shields are getting nerfed relative to damage and healing ward in particular is getting double-nerfed.

Don't write stamina blades off just yet.

Leandor

Ezareth wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

I've been trying to avoid going 2H/Bow, depending on the changes though it might really just become the most efficient way to do damage as a stamina NB.

I'm seeing a lot of people playing with magicka now. Purge + cloak gives magicka NB a slight advantage over stamina NB, i think in the next patch the FoTM is going to shift.

I don't see this as being the case personally. By the time you purge piercing mark my crit charge is on top of you with radiant magelight.

Also Vigor spam will be available to all and concealed weapon wont hit through dodge roll. Plus Shields are getting nerfed relative to damage and healing ward in particular is getting double-nerfed.

Don't write stamina blades off just yet.

And here is the case in point. A stamina nightblade is considered a stamina nightblade if and only if he/she uses 2H. Only a few NBs use DW/bow combo (considering the more prominent forum lurkers).

Nerf 2H, already. (and sorcs, of course)

leepalmer95

Leandor wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

I've been trying to avoid going 2H/Bow, depending on the changes though it might really just become the most efficient way to do damage as a stamina NB.

I'm seeing a lot of people playing with magicka now. Purge + cloak gives magicka NB a slight advantage over stamina NB, i think in the next patch the FoTM is going to shift.

I don't see this as being the case personally. By the time you purge piercing mark my crit charge is on top of you with radiant magelight.

Also Vigor spam will be available to all and concealed weapon wont hit through dodge roll. Plus Shields are getting nerfed relative to damage and healing ward in particular is getting double-nerfed.

Don't write stamina blades off just yet.

And here is the case in point. A stamina nightblade is considered a stamina nightblade if and only if he/she uses 2H. Aside from @Jekyl, no one uses DW/bow combo (considering the more prominent forum lurkers).

Nerf 2H, already. (and sorcs, of course)

Seen a few people uses dw/bow , not everyone uses 2h, and don't nerf 2h because one class always uses it.

Vizier

Training up my Magicka NB in anticipation. Dress w/ sticks for that one.

DeanTheCat

Leandor wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

I've been trying to avoid going 2H/Bow, depending on the changes though it might really just become the most efficient way to do damage as a stamina NB.

I'm seeing a lot of people playing with magicka now. Purge + cloak gives magicka NB a slight advantage over stamina NB, i think in the next patch the FoTM is going to shift.

I don't see this as being the case personally. By the time you purge piercing mark my crit charge is on top of you with radiant magelight.

Also Vigor spam will be available to all and concealed weapon wont hit through dodge roll. Plus Shields are getting nerfed relative to damage and healing ward in particular is getting double-nerfed.

Don't write stamina blades off just yet.

And here is the case in point. A stamina nightblade is considered a stamina nightblade if and only if he/she uses 2H. Aside from @Jekyl, no one uses DW/bow combo (considering the more prominent forum lurkers).

Nerf 2H, already. (and sorcs, of course)

2h is kinda forced, unless you have an infinite supply of money so that you can buy a ton of namira's rot to make potions that grant Major Brutality. I'm currently using 2h as my buff bar, and the only reason I even have a 2h is because of Rally. When 1.7 comes with Major Brutality Flying Blades, I'll drop 2h as I won't need it anymore.

Also, @DDuke uses DW/Bow. He can afford to buy those potions with his 5mil+ gold reserves. I barely have 50k.

Bromburak

ACHILLES 343i wrote: »

will be switching to bow-sniping, or a magicka nightblade when UPDATE 7 rolls out?

As long 2H is strong there is no reason to switch, only change you will see, that Rally is spammed more often and that some NBs will switch to Siphoning Shield on second bar.